Most people already know how guitar relics are done. There are articles and videos on how to do it all over the internet. They didn't really let anything new out of the bag.
@@TheRockinmacI won’t have it killed for me. I can no longer eat it. And I’m going to use my guitars. We are only here for a short time. Use your stuff and enjoy it. My dad was doing that with everything. His car, anything new and trying to keep things new looking. I think because he grew up poor. I started doing it and realized I’m not enjoying my car I’m not using things. I’m saving them. I made a change. I’m not going to go down that road. I treat my stuff well but I no longer drive myself crazy. Play your guitars and enjoy them.
This is why I’m into the relic thing. Not just for the look… it’s because for me it is an artistic way of eliminating my give-a-damn about dents dings and scratches. Less mental energy allotted being on guard against belts, pocket knives, kids,my EDC holster, pets, kids, 😅 more mental energy on playing. I have my “BBQ” guitars and then I have my players 👍🏽
I have some super custom Warrior Guitars I traded for with a dealer. NOS 59 Isabella’s I am so afraid to play them unless I pull from the case and put them back immediately
@@yayayaokoksureit’s about finding and using objects that will create realistic looking wear or damage. All the damage and wear that is put on Murphy lab guitars is replicated from actual old and vintage guitars, so if there is a certain ring somewhere specific, it is more than likely that Tom has seen that in an original guitar. Again, the railroad spike is just an object that can be used to create that ding or whatever, it’s got nothing to do with someone accidentally hitting their guitar with it
The Murphy interview did not reveal any secrets. Good talk, but not all that revealing...I think he was willing to talk (to a point) but he needed to be asked. He wasn't just going to tell all. The guitars seem great, but I wouldn't go more than light aged.
Relicing/antiquing is an old practice, and has been done on violins for centuries, and guitars more recently. I prefer the wear and tear that was acquired honestly by thousands of hours of playing on a instrument someone loved. That said, relicing can make a guitar look like it has character, and I understand the appeal. Personally, I'd rather pay for an instrument that sounds good than one that just looks good.
I worked on a solid color Murphy's lab for a client & paint chips just fall off the neck if you lightly touch it even with a smooth microfiber cloth. Gibson doesn't even care, they act like it's something to expect & just part of the relicing... It's definitely a quality control issue... I've worked on a 200 year old guitar with a more stable finish. At the end of the day, it's made by CNC machine so the price tag isn't justified.
May have been original run, they aren’t like that now. I own 2 and they’re great. I’ve put at least 600hrs on my R9 and neck looks like the day I bought it, no chips.
It was only an early batch. It's been fixed. Mat from Gibson Product Development said so himself during AMA. "Adding a small rant here about Murphy Lab lacquer checking based upon a thread I saw on the other forum (I am not a member). Yes in late 2020/early 2021 there was a batch of Murphy Lab Les Pauls with aniline dye backs where the cherry filler batch we received was faulty. It was not adhering properly and causing extreme checking and flaking on the back, sides and neck -- this is 'bad batch' issue you've likely heard about. We corrected it immediately, but since that time, it seems there is just a lot of hesitation about what constitutes the "ideal" Murphy Lab finish behavior, and rightly so...I get it. So let me be clear -- as the ML card insert says, Murphy Lab lacquer is designed to behave like it does on 50s instruments. It will continue to check and age, and this process is expedited based on environmental conditions. If you buy an Ultra Light aged Murphy Lab guitar, please treat it like you would an original '59 burst in that condition. If you leave it in your trunk on a very hot or very cold day, leave it in the sun for an extended period, etc -- the finish will continue to check in unpredictable ways. But that kind of checking is in no way related to the filler issue a couple years ago. It's to be expected. OK rant over!" Source: www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/hey-its-mat-from-gibson-product-development-ama.217826/page-78#post-2931592
I worked for a company that produced high-end repro furniture, they could "distress" to match the customer's real antique furniture, the main distressing was done with hydrogen peroxide to simulate years of sun bleaching, and the surface was then heated with heat guns and liquid nitrogen spread on this gave the micro-cracking, hitting with chains, etc was for the cheaper manufactures. PS The actual French polishing and grain filling also "aged the finish"
I’m sorry, but call me simple. I just spent $11,000 on a Gibson custom shop Les Paul, however I took delivery of it in perfect mint condition. I’ll spend the next 30 years naturally aging it. I don’t need to pay someone several thousand dollars in premium to do it themselves in a period of a week.
Gibson have amazing videos of them explaining how it's their incredible hand painted and polished finishes that are much of the value to their product. Then you're told it's destroyed and banged up perfect product that's the most valuable. Yeah i'm struggling with that style of business model.
I am not a fan of the aged finishes, but it is hard to replicate wear in a way that looks good and they do a good job at that. I think it was cool to see the tools they use to make it happen. When you are buying a replica of an old guitar, some people want it to look new, some people want it to look used. To each their own. Personally, ill be sticking with my USA Standard :P That 2002 is a beauty
Normal wear and tear and a little time. I guess people dont have patience these days. As you work and play your guitar, that relic look will happen naturally..o@@yayayaokoksure
How did you think they did it before? When replicating wear that was caused by belt buckles, microphone stands, and stage doors, little bits of metal is the most authentic way to do it quickly.
I never liked the idea, and had an order for a 59 VOS. While waiting for it to arrive, a light aged Murphy Labs arrived in the store. I tried it, and it felt and sounded like home. It just felt like a nicely worn guitar I’d owned for my whole life. I never intended to buy one, however after playing it I bought it instantly and cancelled my VOS order. To be fair, it wasn’t a lot more expensive. It also just felt like the one - Murphy labs or not. I like the honesty of the interview, and it didn’t change how I felt about my own ML 59. I absolutely love it. Having said that, I still get that’s it’s not for everyone, and I certainly would not have paid several thousand more for an ultra heavy aged!
I think if they handed you the tools and you tried to do yourself, you'd feel differently about how much skill is involved in it turning out good and not ruining any guitars. I could be wrong of course 🤷♂️
I currently own a Murphy Lab R8 that was lightly aged by the Murphy Lab, then Wildwood gave it to Danocaster and he did his thing on it. I'm ambivalent on relics; I'd never buy a guitar *because* it's reliced, but if it's a guitar that I like, I don't care whether it's reliced or not. I bought the R8 because I love the neck, and it sounds exceptional.
You have to thank the demented people in the guitar community for normalizing the exploitation of the market. It's fucking preposterous to pay 13k for a "distressed/relic'ed" guitar. The demand for this gave Gibson and friends wiggle room to fuck you out of your money and some people are fine with that or deluded. I'm not against the murphy lab or the fender custom, what I'm against is people telling you it's okay to pay triple the price of a guitar that got clawed with keys and thrown into the snow by an "artisan".. 4k price magically becomes 13k..like wtf
Gibson insists on selling their oldest technology at exhorbanent prices. Even if Murphy himself "ages" the guitar, it is still a brand new build. New parts, new wood etc. It's not an old guitar.
Hello comrade, in your communist mind what is a "Fair" price for a Murphy lab or USA Gibson? You do realize it costs money to produce a product? You have to pay to get the wood and hardware for the guitar to Nashville, The expense to maintain the buildings/facilities, insurance, electricity, heat, water, A/C maintenance, supplies, PAYROLL, medical/dental, training, shipping, and a dozen other expenses. After you factor in all this, they are lucky to make 200 to 300 bucks per their USA Gibsons.
@@johnsmith-ug5tp What are you waffling on about?!?! There is no way it costs more than $1000-1500 per Gibson Les Paul. If it did, how do other USA made guitars like Keisel cost so much less? I don't think they're losing money. Also, a Murphy Lab costs 2-3x (or more) as much as an American Standard. There's no way it cost them 2-3x as much just to scratch it a bit and use a different lacquer (as all the other costs you mention would be pretty much the same for a Murphy Lab and Standard Les Paul).
It’s about TIME! The aging process is TIME CONSUMING. That equals LABOR COST. Why do people insist on pissing and moaning about Gibson’s prices, but not PRS....or Keisel.....or Suhr.
I found it cute you were thinking there is a random ding generator at the back of the muphy lab :) But honestly I have no problem with that how they are doing it, because the biggest take away for me are those authentic colors and painting you will have no other chance getting but buying a murphy lab. those golden poppy bursts are killer, no matter how bashed they are. but i get your point, ultra light aging is the most tasteful they are doing the best for most ppl i think.
i don't so much care for the relicing but how those guitars feel and sound. I was going to buy a VOS les paul one day, but picked up a heavy aged goldtop (which aesthetically i'm not that into) and it just sounded like an old guitar so i bought it on the spot. Maybe it was just that particular one but to me the Murphys are different. My benchmark, my brother has a 60s SG and i always wanted a les paul that feels and sounds like that one. This one was as close as i could get since i can't afford vintage. I'm not a rich guy so it the murphy was a significant purchase for me. Just my experience.
I have a CT scan 23 Murphy lab, literally no aging on it just exact copy of a 59 les Paul even down to materials paint and tools used, its not aged but lab painted, its as close to me going into a shop in 1959 and buying an original back in time. The difference being i didnt spend £300k getting that guitar today, i spent £5500 and its a close as I'll ever get to owning that original 59 that I've seen all my heros play, I'm not keen on "relicing" i think it should turn into a relic with you naturally but each to their own. I watched that vid with tom and i already knew how they did it none of it was a surprise to me at all.
You’re playing is immense! As someone that follows a bunch of RUclips guitarists, you’re playing really is top notch as is the tone. Feel free to share how you get that tone! I’d watch that all day
I can definitely see how an "aged neck" on a new guitar would be comfortable to play. I have two Squier Strats that are 25 and a 26 year old. The maple necks not only turned a dark amber color over time, but they feel smooth and amazing to play. These guitars also show why a poly finish is better (for me) than a nitro finish. Despite their age, other than normal play wear, there is no finish checking or chips in the finish. The idea of paying a premium for a guitar that already sells for a huge premium, just to make it look old and played in, is downright silly to me.
As someone that makes and finishes guitars and has dabbled in ageing, I can assure you that it isn't easy to do well and it does take a lot of time. Modern Gibsons from the main factory are finished with a pre-cat cellulose lacquer so they aren't prone to ageing, very difficult to make them check. I'm not into heavy relics personally but I do like my lacquer to age and check over time. It would be nice if all Gibsons came that way so if you wanted it aged you could just leave it out in the winter for a few hours and get some checking. But that mean's they're way more likely to check during shipping, so it's a really obvious business decision to keep the nitro finishes in the Murphy lab/custom shop.
How did people think these were being relic'd? That's always the process. Making a clean guitar and hitting it with various metal objects. I don't really see the "mystique" of the Murphy Lab any more than a normal custom shop relic.
The relicing does look cool - up to a point, anyway. But it seems ironic that for a brand new, unreliced, custom shop guitar they want $5k. But to then increase the aged look on the same guitar by throwing a bunch of screws at it and now charge a premium for that up to TWICE the amount - this seems like someone is being conned somewhere. Sorry. Merry Christmas! God Bless!
You guys are ignorant to this subject😅 it takes a lot of skill to replicate Decades of Road where and abused I guarantee you that if you tried it it would look like crap it's an art and it takes a special type of artist to reproduce it
I think the best relic is the one you make on your own instrument. When I get a new guitar I enjoy it as it comes. As days go by I start finding these little marks here and there and I don’t get sad nor happy, but after 5 years you can clearly feel the instrument is really yours. I can’t imagine paying a fee just for the look and missing out on this whole aging experience I get by myself.
I specialise in making relic guitars out of a custom shop. That this ‘spoiled’ the mystique of relic designed guitars is odd. Depending on the level of wear you’re fabricating, there is every kind of tool/item used to create what I call controlled chaos. I’ve used scalpels, so many kinds of blades, files, the ground I’m standing on, keys, cigarettes, heat, cold, various metal objects, acid… it’s a long list. My most recent work was an EVH Frankie replica. That took a while with extreme attention to detail, level of wear between the 3 colours. It’s as era accurate as possible. It’s that magnified attention to detail that makes a good luthier. The dings, scratches, fades etc… it has to mimic the origin of how and when they happened on the real thing, and there is an art to it that took years to perfect.
What I alkways find super funny: When you sell a used regular Gibson Custom shop with wear which just happended it will lower the selling price, when it's "aged" you will be able to get a higher price. This is really a wild concept.
I like the light aging. It’s just the “broke-in” feeling. Makes me feel like I want to use it instead of just stare at it. Not a fan of the heavy relic, just makes it look like nobody cares about that guitar, but we all love worn in boots and jeans.
100%. Same with people who like patina on a car. Some people simply like the feel/look of it. Makes it feel like an old trusty pair of boots. Many people just prefer that. To this day I still have no clue why so many people struggle to understand ageing, when it's been done for so many years on many vehicles, and even on clothing.
I am on the fence. I prefer nice shiny clean guitars. I never ever gig with a dirty guitar. Want it to look good like my muscle car! Having said that, early this year I bought a Les Paul Std. Faded ‘50’s. Satin finish not aged obviously but the TONE!!! Neck feels great, tone is warm! I have played Custom Shop Gibson VOS models and I like them a lot! In general the thinned finish allows the wood to breathe and to me sounds better. Same thing on relic’d Fenders. Some people want all the dings and stuff but for me it is about tone and the feel. Warmer more inviting.
I was bemoaning the weather shock checking on my LP Custom, saying that I should have been better with its care and my bandmate turned to me and said 'Dude, people pay for this sh#@!t.'
I’ve got two “custom shop” guitars that came out shiny and perfect. Both are showing signs of age being 15-18 years old. They are not extremely beat up because I try to respect the craftsmanship and cost. What they show in aging has happened honestly.
If you talk to Chris at K-Line, he’ll tell you that with his guitars it’s more time-consuming and laborious to make a perfect NOS finish than his closet-classic or full relic guitars. They don’t all start out perfect and then receive relic. There are more steps of wet, sanding, and spraying and polishing to get things to lay flat and glossy on an NOS Guitar. I used to be a fan of relic guitars, and have owned several custom shop models. But something switched in me a few years ago, and I realized I was paying more for less. And I actually like the look of a perfectly finished guitar. I’m not opposed to an old guitar that has honest wear, but I’d like to put that wear on myself.
Tom Murphy has always had his bag of tricks and his never ever tried to hide it as a big secret, l personally like the ultra lights so l bought one and as Tom has said “Ohh yeah the ultra lights will age depending on how much you play them” and his right mine has aged considerably whereas the heavy aged and the ultra heavy aged guitars, well he really doesn’t know where they can go from there ……
I don't know what you think they were doing to put dings, scratches and marks on these things. I just laughed while I watched it because I knew it was going to trigger guys who either spent a fortune on these things or were considering it. The use of random metal objects, doesn't mean they are just randomly banging on the guitar. If you actually watched the video, he explains that there is a meticulous and artistic process to getting a realistic "old heavily gig'ed" appearance. So if watching that video put you off from buying a fake relic guitar and spending ungawdly amounts of money on something like that, all the better. To me, the worst part of the video was the snake oil nonsense about finish being some major "tone" factor. It's not an acoustic. You're hugging the thing against your body so this idea that "thin nitro" magically "opens up" a guitar is some goofy stuff. But that kind of snake oil crap is how they can squeeze crazy money from people who buy into it.
I'm a fortunate owner of an old Gibson and a Murphy Lab that mirrors it. The Murphy Lab is a fantastic playing and sounding guitar; I rarely put it in a case. It's also a work of art, not simply wood with strings. I do understand where John is coming from, but I respectfully see it from a different perspective. Art is about the relationship the artist creates between themselves, their work, and the buyer--If the type of brushes the artist uses or the price their art commands are the main concerns, then you have to differentiate between being at an art gallery vs an art auction or sale.
Nash has been doing it for decades, love mine and it's never been a mystery. All of them do it this way. Checking is usually down with a facto knife to start. It is what it is. I love my Nash and how chewed up it is
Ridiculously overpriced instruments that cost more than my work truck that feeds my family. That's what ruined anything having that Gibson branding. For crying out loud its a piece of wood.
Unfortunately, the Murphy Lab has become to the Custom Shop what the CS was to Gibson USA - ie, they get first dibs on the woods before the CS and Gibson USA.
I do like the relicing, but on the flipside some cracks appeared around the pickguard hole on my LP and a bunch of nitro broke off. I was gutted and immediately thought about how to repair it.
There's a reverb mini-doc with Dennis Fano going through the whole process at Novo. Fano showed basically the same stuff as they use in the Murphy Lab. I don't think the interview with Lee Anderton let any genie out of the bottle... Anybody who's been aware of relic'd guitars for awhile knows this already.
What put me off most from the interview is learning about their "custom lacquer", that not only ages way quicker, but also comes off more easily. I would assume that such a guitar will not "age as gracefully" as an instrument with a normal old lacquer that has some miles on it..
The best ´mojo´or smooth feel when playing a guitar is achieved by your own playing throughout the years, or by buying a very used instrument. An instrument that vibrated enough to have its wood settled, and a neck that was played enough to smoothing out naturally through playing motion. I can´t think of anything better - and this is my experienced opinion regarding heavy relic guitars from all big brands. We all may feel different about it, and that´s OK. We are all free to go and find what suits us best. :) Great video.
Im not a huge relic fan (although a little neck/body wear can feel nice when playing), but in fairness to Gibson, I think everyone else uses the same methods for aging 'Vintage' Custom Shop models. The methods are well enough known, they're just the ones who have let customers, as you said, see how the sausage is made (which is a good analogy here, as knowledge of it may put off customers). Also I truly hate the feeling of that first scrape or ding on something, but after that the blemishes just become irrelevant to me. Take care of things sure, but instruments are things meant to be played and used and have their own character imo, not ornaments.
Personally, I like them and from an acoustic point of view, it does make sense to chequer the top to allow the wood underneath to breath and vibrate more.. Relicing is a great option for the market place and the choice is all yours!
Never really understood relicing other than any part of the process that might make it play better (like the back of the neck as you mention). Totally agree that they can't have themselves any favour with this video. Bizarre.
You sound like the kid who just found out there's no Santa Claus. How did you think relicing was done? This is no secret, since the first reliced guitars everyone was aware of how dents and dings were done. This is one of the most trifling videos I've ever seen.
There was no trifle in this video. Santa Claus is a good analogy....Some things you're better off not seeing - like what goes into making a Burger. Seeing the bloke who has his name on the Murphy lab just boink a guitar with a large spike looks a little silly, no?
Man that is a tune right out of the heart and soul of people who struggle to move forward, to take care of family and friends, and to overcome tyranny.
@@someonecalledjoe6368 I have a USA Grace Potter flying V that I bought used about a decade ago. Genuinely hard to argue that guitar isn't better in every way, and was literally 1/6th the price of my ML Les Paul. I can't put the Les Paul down though, for whatever reason.
Buying a guitar where people age it artificially is 100% not cool. If paying the premium for a Gibson is for the “authenticity” why would you add fake aging and scratching. Stop trying to pretend it’s something it is not. It’s not a vintage guitar, it’s a pre-dinged new one. If the story behind your guitar’s wear is “oh some dude at a factory did it with railroad spikes” that is lame. Nobody cares other than you overspent by a huge margin.
@@wootksPeople who buy relic’d guitars understand that they are new. It’s not about fake stories and all that. Some people just like the look. What’s wrong with that?
@@Rhythmicons that way you pay a professional, not someone who's amateur at this. As with any task you can do it yourself after educating via RUclips and save buck. ✌️
I don’t get how people consider “aging” and damage to be the same. I think they should just use nickel plated hardware on the guitar and finish it with the thinnest possible acrylic finish - thin enough that you can still feel the grain through it, the way nice furniture is finished. Then when you just use the guitar normally, you will have a nice vintage-aged looking instrument in less than a year.
what was that epically beautiful intro you played? I’m looking into buying an all in one, as long as I play more than I change parameters, and the solo tone you used in the intro is exactly what I would like to have as a preset. I’m also feeling as if i’m a bit late to the game of modellers etc and keep finding myself wondering about their longevity. Am I right to be concerned and to wait the eternal wait for the unit to end all units or do I just get one and be happy? Line 6 might be at about my level of competence/ patience? Thoughts?
I had a '54 Les Paul Custom re-issue that Tom Murphy "reliced" using a razor blade. The re-sale value increased dramatically because it represented an early example of TM's relic-ing work. Beast of a guitar, too!
So how do you think the damage and distressing was caused? If not by someone applying some 'considered' abuse using abrasive materials. . and how would you have preferred tne process to have been implemented? For what it's worth, I have a 2-month old ultra light aged LP, and was surprised how easily the paint and laquer comes off - I only have to look at it and another blemish appears 😂. However, I'm of a certain age and I don't have time to wait 40 years for a new guitar to look like ones I bought back in the 80s and 90s. I thought about the VOS, but they look and feel like a TV prop to me and remind me of those vintage pianos that get re lacquered, rather than French polished. So I guess it's really an individual choice and Gibson are trying to cover all bases. However, I think they need to make it really explicit that the ultra light and light aged models will continue to age rapidly. This fact is only ever mentioned in passing in interview etc... but should be advertised, as I suspect there must be a lot of people out there wondering if they accidentally keep dinging their new toy.
Its not about just jamming it and banging it, it takes massive skill and artistry to get it right. If you can do it better, go ahead. I bang up all my own guitars by playing them everyday, thats a great way to do it.
According to T.M. the new 'Old' finish that lends itself to checking and the rest - the finish he concocted over the years and makes the Murphy Lab possible and the aging repeatable. That finish is thinner and allows greater resonance, similar to the original instruments they try to replicate. So the murphy lab guitars play older as well. which may be worth the additional cost sans railroad spike treatment!! cheers!
It’s much the same process we use in film props .. many different things are used to distress and age things. The key is to use research of real aging and use lots of different tools to create it. The trickiest thing to do is to keep it random looking and create layers. I quite like some relics but Saying that I saw a Murphy lab 335 heavy relic that looked absolutely terrible, it looked like someone had tried it for the first time and spilt tippex on the top.
My 335, has whats called “Patina” theres no dent or dings or wear, its a very light age that just feels real nice. Maybe the best guitar I own, and yes ou can tell the finish is very light, and the plastics and binding is absolutely different, and yes its hand wired unpotted custom buckers. But it didnt feel lik a production line thick sticky feeling nitro, and the chrome has slight patina it felt like a nice used guitar, I absolutely did not want relic’d. At all. I want my play wear on it but it does feel like an old guitar that was kept in the case for years and well cared for but, it feels played in. Side by side with my production line, there was no comparison the custom wasnt even in the same ball park it was a completely different guitar. Way above my standard. So I sold the standard. But the finish. Light patina is cool, thats as far as I go. Eder would call it a “Journyman” finish I suppose.
I watched the whole interview with Tom Murphy and didn't think about it too much then, but then today when you said "seeing how the sausage is made", I think I totally agree with the points you're making in this video.
Historic Makeovers is around the corner from where I live, Ironically I do not know the Guys that work there. They have been redoing regular Gibsons into 50's replicas, for at least 10 years now.
How does the saying go? “Sunlight is the best disinfectant”? Like you said, no one wants to know how the sausage is made. They are selling the mystique and mojo. Once you realize it’s actually an inferior finish and they’re throwing keys at it, a lot of the romance dies.
Similarly, an old gibson factory tour video they themselves submitted absolutely ruined gibson guitars for me. All I saw was uninterested workers throwing pieces of wood into a machine until a guitar was dumped on the other end. The money shot at the end, a MASSIVE warehouse PACKED with guitars destroyed the whole thing for me. What I got from the video was that Gibson nailed production so much that they didn't even need real luthiers or motivated workers anymore. EVERYTHING was being made with machines and the only human interaction was replacing the pieces of wood going into and out of the machines. That's it. So if that's the case... Then WHY the hell are they charging multiple thousands of dollars for a guitar??? I have 0, ZERO, issues with machines building guitars, but god dammit, I expect to pay like a machine built the guitar: LOW PRICES. They replaced human labor for machines, increased production by 50 fold and expect me to pay the same amount? screw that. If I'm paying that much, I expect a human being to build my instrument and pocket the money, not a bunch of executives that probably can't even play the damn thing in the first place.
For me, it is the ridiculous prices they are asking for the relicing. Got a heavy reluced custom build strat for half of what they ask for their heavy reliced guitars, and I still think it was a ridiculous price for what basically is, someone damaging your guitar.
I’ve been playing for 58 years and I don’t want relic anything. I have built fine furniture and if was relic then you would use a screwdriver, wrench, rebar, etc. I don’t want to know how they do it. I don’t want relic anything. The concept is stupid unless you are getting an exact SRV strat maybe.
I found an ultra light aged R9 with a chevron flame. It feels played. Rolled fretboard edges and the hardware has the machined edges on the bridge and tailpiece smoothed out. The checking can’t been seen unless you’re close up. At that point, the flames are mesmerizing. That said, I wish it sounded like a burst. The pickups need an improvement. Tom’s lab does a great job on the finish, but they need an Artist to design the pickups. The neck pickup sounds like it’s muffled. The bridge is passable but needs to sound more open. I own a few guitars that have been played extensively by me at various festivals, concerts, clubs etc. over the last 40 years, and although they show signs of bumping here and there, maybe some checking, none have the bling wear and buckle rash or fretboard divots. I can’t see paying another 2K$ for that. It’s crazy. I checked out a heavy relic and I’ll admit, it was very convincing and thorough, I went with the ultra light model. The 10K list pushed me away. I played some Fender Masterbuilt’s from around 2010 and at that time they were 5K$. They were very convincing as well. Even had aged magnets. The bridge on the Strat was sweet not harsh. The aging thing is very polarizing. I guess if you’re old like me, buy a real vintage guitar if you want great feel and sound. You have to find a Tuesday guitar however. Those Monday and Friday guitars can be a bit off.😊
Before considering time consuming and potentially expensive changes (like Pickups) in the future, I suggest looking into the cheapest mod first… Capacitors. If you hear/feel that there is tone held back when it comes out of a particular pickup and your amp, try swapping out your 0.022u cap for a 0.015u. I am currently working through my guitars and swapping out Caps where I feel the tone is veiled. This very quick and cheap change can transform the tone to my ears on my guitars, it does also add airiness when the tone control is fully open. When playing with gain and tone control is fully off this mod gives you better woman tone. It cries more. The tone is not just muffled any more it gives your guitar a different nasal quacky character with gain. Mileage varies from guitar to guitar, but when it works particularly well, it’s flipping marvellous. Be sure to check your POT readings too, as if they are well below 500k you’ll want to consider swapping them out with higher values. The same principle applies to single coils, albeit with 250k pots and possibly moving to 0.022u caps from 0.047u. I am using Monty’s Guitars 0.015u caps in the UK for my neck humbucker PuP’s, 50’s wiring approach and it’s amazing what a difference it can make, even without changing POT values or any other wiring tweaks.
It doesn’t bother me about the different tools and items they use to get that finished product. When I first saw them - when the relics first started - I laughed at it for years. What changed my mind is, I’m not a collector. I’m a player. I’ve grown in my option of them enough to recognize a great guitar sounds great even if it looks heavily aged and isn’t. So, it doesn’t bother me anymore. It also takes a little stress off of people that play their guitars and gig often and having to try and not get a ding here and there. Another aspect of why I’m happy he came out with what they do - people can take that and try their own hand at it. If they are so inclined to do that.
My guitars have aged from playing them. I have some higher end guitars that I try and keep very clean. The one Novo I ordered a few years ago, was one of the last you get with no distress. Ice metallic blue and it's gorgeous still. I would just never pay an upcharge for distressing.
Agree with your thoughts regarding the aging. Being that I'm a woodworker who refurbishes furniture, I understand how aging parts (in my case furniture) to make new parts blend with the old, original parts makes sense-- and there is a real art to it. Concerning "relic" guitars, I think most people already suspect that heavy relicing involves methods antithetical to proper guitar care. Personally, I like the feel of the relic models (whatever finish Gibson/Fender are using), but not enough to pay such a premium. An oiled, roasted maple neck has a similar feel, for example, and is far less costly.
I think the heavy relic stuff misses the point. What we want is a guitar that plays as well as those made in the late 50s / early 60s and looks how they were in their prime in the late 60s - mid 70s. They were only 10-15 years old at the time and looked pretty clean for the most part unless they had been stripped or refinished. The only heavily worn guitar I remember from the time was Rory Gallagher's Strat. It wasn't till the late 80s / early 90s that you would see a lot of 50s finishes cracking and flaking badly.
I remember the Pre War Guitar Co guys talking about hurling coins and keys at their Brazilian Rosewood builds, which is just insane to me. Just play the damn thing, and don’t take decades off an instrument’s life for no reason. Some nitro grazing is fine, but this shit is stupid.
Never seen the point of buying an expensive guitar that's been deliberately damaged to make it look old, because you couldn't afford to buy an actual old guitar. I can sort of understand it if the damage is to make the guitar into a film prop, but not so you can pretend you've got an old guitar. If you could go back to the 50s or 60s to get a real guitar of the period, back in the golden age of rock & roll, you'd have got a new guitar that was new and looked new. There were no ancient Les Pauls then. When I was a teenager I got told off by a guitar shop keeper for taking an expensive guitar off the wall while wearing a shirt that had "horrible nasty buttons"; nowadays they do that and more and people will pay more for them!
I don’t mind so much that they perform the relicing, but it does raise questions to me that they charge so much more for a reliced instrument. Literally damaging it and charging you extra… yet if I boyght the same custom shop and it had natural wear and tear and didn’t have the murphy lab moniker it would resale at a reduced rate due to “used imperfections”. Soo go on reverb and find a mint condition murphy lab and then look at a used gibson in similar condition that can only be devalued at “good” condition pricing.
What I find interesting is the people that don't realize that's how they're made. There's absolutely nothing secret or mysterious about it, never has been. To say it's "ruined" for you is like eating hamburgers your entire life then finding out it comes from cows and being shocked.......
Most people already know how guitar relics are done. There are articles and videos on how to do it all over the internet. They didn't really let anything new out of the bag.
Yeah I don’t get how people are taken aback by it. It’s common knowledge.
Yeah it's like chicken in the grocery store. It was once alive and to get on the shelf it had to be killed. How did you think they done it?
@@TheRockinmacbrilliant
@@TheRockinmacI won’t have it killed for me. I can no longer eat it. And I’m going to use my guitars. We are only here for a short time. Use your stuff and enjoy it. My dad was doing that with everything. His car, anything new and trying to keep things new looking. I think because he grew up poor. I started doing it and realized I’m not enjoying my car I’m not using things. I’m saving them. I made a change. I’m not going to go down that road. I treat my stuff well but I no longer drive myself crazy. Play your guitars and enjoy them.
How it looks gets your attention but how it sounds and plays matters most
It's the prices that ruined it for me
I'm part of a disappearing breed who gets sick and has to go to bed for a few days when he puts a ding in one of his guitars.
This is why I’m into the relic thing. Not just for the look… it’s because for me it is an artistic way of eliminating my give-a-damn about dents dings and scratches. Less mental energy allotted being on guard against belts, pocket knives, kids,my EDC holster, pets, kids, 😅 more mental energy on playing. I have my “BBQ” guitars and then I have my players 👍🏽
@@hillelmusic I'm old. I can't change.
I totally understand
@@hillelmusicis a bbq guitar a nice one that comes out sometimes?
I have some super custom Warrior Guitars I traded for with a dealer. NOS 59 Isabella’s
I am so afraid to play them unless I pull from the case and put them back immediately
Imagine having a full time job of scratching expensive guitars with keys and railroad spikes
No brainer!😂
It would feel so good.
It's an incredibly brilliant scam lol
@@namegoeshere2805 Only it's not a scam.
And I’m sure he’s compensated well for it to boot
What did you expect? A highly-specialized, extremely expensive toolset to bang things up? _That_ would be dumb.
The more videos I watch of his, the less I'm interested in his opinion on things.
@@dcamnc1 Yeah, I'm not sure if he is pretending to have just cursory knowledge for effect or if he really isn't very knowledgeable.
I dont recall ever banging my guitar against a railroad spike in the past 30yrs. Or anything similar for that matter.
@@yayayaokoksureit’s about finding and using objects that will create realistic looking wear or damage. All the damage and wear that is put on Murphy lab guitars is replicated from actual old and vintage guitars, so if there is a certain ring somewhere specific, it is more than likely that Tom has seen that in an original guitar. Again, the railroad spike is just an object that can be used to create that ding or whatever, it’s got nothing to do with someone accidentally hitting their guitar with it
The Murphy interview did not reveal any secrets. Good talk, but not all that revealing...I think he was willing to talk (to a point) but he needed to be asked. He wasn't just going to tell all. The guitars seem great, but I wouldn't go more than light aged.
Relicing/antiquing is an old practice, and has been done on violins for centuries, and guitars more recently. I prefer the wear and tear that was acquired honestly by thousands of hours of playing on a instrument someone loved. That said, relicing can make a guitar look like it has character, and I understand the appeal. Personally, I'd rather pay for an instrument that sounds good than one that just looks good.
Amen brother love my worn in old 89 Greco EG59-70 that has dings and dent's and marks on it not bad but lovely honest player wear....
they just want our money right? I am curious what is the next crap they will come out in the future !
I worked on a solid color Murphy's lab for a client & paint chips just fall off the neck if you lightly touch it even with a smooth microfiber cloth. Gibson doesn't even care, they act like it's something to expect & just part of the relicing... It's definitely a quality control issue... I've worked on a 200 year old guitar with a more stable finish. At the end of the day, it's made by CNC machine so the price tag isn't justified.
If you’re going to apply a finish and have it check instantly without having to do anything to it, it’s not a sturdy finish…
That was an issue with a particular year.They're not all like that.
May have been original run, they aren’t like that now. I own 2 and they’re great. I’ve put at least 600hrs on my R9 and neck looks like the day I bought it, no chips.
But it says Gibson on the headstock so it HAS to be bestisus guitar EVER.
It was only an early batch. It's been fixed. Mat from Gibson Product Development said so himself during AMA.
"Adding a small rant here about Murphy Lab lacquer checking based upon a thread I saw on the other forum (I am not a member). Yes in late 2020/early 2021 there was a batch of Murphy Lab Les Pauls with aniline dye backs where the cherry filler batch we received was faulty. It was not adhering properly and causing extreme checking and flaking on the back, sides and neck -- this is 'bad batch' issue you've likely heard about. We corrected it immediately, but since that time, it seems there is just a lot of hesitation about what constitutes the "ideal" Murphy Lab finish behavior, and rightly so...I get it.
So let me be clear -- as the ML card insert says, Murphy Lab lacquer is designed to behave like it does on 50s instruments. It will continue to check and age, and this process is expedited based on environmental conditions. If you buy an Ultra Light aged Murphy Lab guitar, please treat it like you would an original '59 burst in that condition. If you leave it in your trunk on a very hot or very cold day, leave it in the sun for an extended period, etc -- the finish will continue to check in unpredictable ways. But that kind of checking is in no way related to the filler issue a couple years ago. It's to be expected. OK rant over!"
Source: www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/hey-its-mat-from-gibson-product-development-ama.217826/page-78#post-2931592
I worked for a company that produced high-end repro furniture, they could "distress" to match the customer's real antique furniture, the main distressing was done with hydrogen peroxide to simulate years of sun bleaching, and the surface was then heated with heat guns and liquid nitrogen spread on this gave the micro-cracking, hitting with chains, etc was for the cheaper manufactures.
PS The actual French polishing and grain filling also "aged the finish"
I’m sorry, but call me simple. I just spent $11,000 on a Gibson custom shop Les Paul, however I took delivery of it in perfect mint condition. I’ll spend the next 30 years naturally aging it. I don’t need to pay someone several thousand dollars in premium to do it themselves in a period of a week.
Gibson have amazing videos of them explaining how it's their incredible hand painted and polished finishes that are much of the value to their product. Then you're told it's destroyed and banged up perfect product that's the most valuable. Yeah i'm struggling with that style of business model.
I am not a fan of the aged finishes, but it is hard to replicate wear in a way that looks good and they do a good job at that. I think it was cool to see the tools they use to make it happen.
When you are buying a replica of an old guitar, some people want it to look new, some people want it to look used. To each their own.
Personally, ill be sticking with my USA Standard :P
That 2002 is a beauty
It's not "hard." Practice on a few guitars and you could do it too. Or just play the one you have like you don't care if it scratches etc.
Normal wear and tear and a little time. I guess people dont have patience these days. As you work and play your guitar, that relic look will happen naturally..o@@yayayaokoksure
@@frankwebster9110 some of us won't live enough decades to put 60 years of natural patina on our guitars.
@@CrazyLazyDave so buy a used one. Paying thousands of dollars for some ol boy to bang a new guitar with keys is silly.
@@yayayaokoksure have you ever looked at the price of 60 year old Les Pauls?
How did you think they did it before? When replicating wear that was caused by belt buckles, microphone stands, and stage doors, little bits of metal is the most authentic way to do it quickly.
I never liked the idea, and had an order for a 59 VOS. While waiting for it to arrive, a light aged Murphy Labs arrived in the store. I tried it, and it felt and sounded like home. It just felt like a nicely worn guitar I’d owned for my whole life. I never intended to buy one, however after playing it I bought it instantly and cancelled my VOS order. To be fair, it wasn’t a lot more expensive. It also just felt like the one - Murphy labs or not.
I like the honesty of the interview, and it didn’t change how I felt about my own ML 59. I absolutely love it. Having said that, I still get that’s it’s not for everyone, and I certainly would not have paid several thousand more for an ultra heavy aged!
I think if they handed you the tools and you tried to do yourself, you'd feel differently about how much skill is involved in it turning out good and not ruining any guitars. I could be wrong of course 🤷♂️
Lol
Spot on!
I currently own a Murphy Lab R8 that was lightly aged by the Murphy Lab, then Wildwood gave it to Danocaster and he did his thing on it. I'm ambivalent on relics; I'd never buy a guitar *because* it's reliced, but if it's a guitar that I like, I don't care whether it's reliced or not. I bought the R8 because I love the neck, and it sounds exceptional.
You have to thank the demented people in the guitar community for normalizing the exploitation of the market. It's fucking preposterous to pay 13k for a "distressed/relic'ed" guitar. The demand for this gave Gibson and friends wiggle room to fuck you out of your money and some people are fine with that or deluded. I'm not against the murphy lab or the fender custom, what I'm against is people telling you it's okay to pay triple the price of a guitar that got clawed with keys and thrown into the snow by an "artisan".. 4k price magically becomes 13k..like wtf
Con artisan...
Gibson insists on selling their oldest technology at exhorbanent prices. Even if Murphy himself "ages" the guitar, it is still a brand new build. New parts, new wood etc. It's not an old guitar.
Hello comrade, in your communist mind what is a "Fair" price for a Murphy lab or USA Gibson?
You do realize it costs money to produce a product? You have to pay to get the wood and hardware for the guitar to Nashville, The expense to maintain the buildings/facilities, insurance, electricity, heat, water, A/C maintenance, supplies, PAYROLL, medical/dental, training, shipping, and a dozen other expenses. After you factor in all this, they are lucky to make 200 to 300 bucks per their USA Gibsons.
@@johnsmith-ug5tp Dude I don't think you have to be a communist to think 8000 - 10000€ for a guitar is quite a lot 🙂
@@johnsmith-ug5tp What are you waffling on about?!?! There is no way it costs more than $1000-1500 per Gibson Les Paul. If it did, how do other USA made guitars like Keisel cost so much less? I don't think they're losing money.
Also, a Murphy Lab costs 2-3x (or more) as much as an American Standard. There's no way it cost them 2-3x as much just to scratch it a bit and use a different lacquer (as all the other costs you mention would be pretty much the same for a Murphy Lab and Standard Les Paul).
It’s about TIME! The aging process is TIME CONSUMING. That equals LABOR COST. Why do people insist on pissing and moaning about Gibson’s prices, but not PRS....or Keisel.....or Suhr.
Waffling? HA You are easily confused by facts and economics 101 huh? ha @@puffin11
I don't need to pay someone to bash up my guitars. I seem perfectly capable of doing that myself for free whether intentional or not
I found it cute you were thinking there is a random ding generator at the back of the muphy lab :) But honestly I have no problem with that how they are doing it, because the biggest take away for me are those authentic colors and painting you will have no other chance getting but buying a murphy lab. those golden poppy bursts are killer, no matter how bashed they are. but i get your point, ultra light aging is the most tasteful they are doing the best for most ppl i think.
i don't so much care for the relicing but how those guitars feel and sound. I was going to buy a VOS les paul one day, but picked up a heavy aged goldtop (which aesthetically i'm not that into) and it just sounded like an old guitar so i bought it on the spot. Maybe it was just that particular one but to me the Murphys are different. My benchmark, my brother has a 60s SG and i always wanted a les paul that feels and sounds like that one. This one was as close as i could get since i can't afford vintage. I'm not a rich guy so it the murphy was a significant purchase for me. Just my experience.
I agree with you. Spending 10k on a guitar that looks like a baby dropped some car keys on it is ridiculous.
I've seen probably dozens of RUclips videos showing guitars being reliced, and these techniques were used in all of them.
I have a CT scan 23 Murphy lab, literally no aging on it just exact copy of a 59 les Paul even down to materials paint and tools used, its not aged but lab painted, its as close to me going into a shop in 1959 and buying an original back in time. The difference being i didnt spend £300k getting that guitar today, i spent £5500 and its a close as I'll ever get to owning that original 59 that I've seen all my heros play, I'm not keen on "relicing" i think it should turn into a relic with you naturally but each to their own. I watched that vid with tom and i already knew how they did it none of it was a surprise to me at all.
I've found greater satisfaction with Heritage guitars than Gibsons in general...
You’re playing is immense! As someone that follows a bunch of RUclips guitarists, you’re playing really is top notch as is the tone. Feel free to share how you get that tone! I’d watch that all day
I can definitely see how an "aged neck" on a new guitar would be comfortable to play. I have two Squier Strats that are 25 and a 26 year old. The maple necks not only turned a dark amber color over time, but they feel smooth and amazing to play. These guitars also show why a poly finish is better (for me) than a nitro finish. Despite their age, other than normal play wear, there is no finish checking or chips in the finish. The idea of paying a premium for a guitar that already sells for a huge premium, just to make it look old and played in, is downright silly to me.
As someone that makes and finishes guitars and has dabbled in ageing, I can assure you that it isn't easy to do well and it does take a lot of time. Modern Gibsons from the main factory are finished with a pre-cat cellulose lacquer so they aren't prone to ageing, very difficult to make them check. I'm not into heavy relics personally but I do like my lacquer to age and check over time. It would be nice if all Gibsons came that way so if you wanted it aged you could just leave it out in the winter for a few hours and get some checking. But that mean's they're way more likely to check during shipping, so it's a really obvious business decision to keep the nitro finishes in the Murphy lab/custom shop.
I put the slightest ding near the f hole of my es137 and been pissed of for over 15 years🥵🥵🥵
I'm now 14 years into relicing my R9. Starting to look like it's been used now. ;)
........Yeh, Christmas hasn't been same for me since I was told there's no Santa Claus!
How did people think these were being relic'd? That's always the process. Making a clean guitar and hitting it with various metal objects. I don't really see the "mystique" of the Murphy Lab any more than a normal custom shop relic.
The relicing does look cool - up to a point, anyway. But it seems ironic that for a brand new, unreliced, custom shop guitar they want $5k. But to then increase the aged look on the same guitar by throwing a bunch of screws at it and now charge a premium for that up to TWICE the amount - this seems like someone is being conned somewhere.
Sorry.
Merry Christmas! God Bless!
I can trash your guitar for only $200.
You guys are ignorant to this subject😅 it takes a lot of skill to replicate Decades of Road where and abused I guarantee you that if you tried it it would look like crap it's an art and it takes a special type of artist to reproduce it
Much how the state of Virginia is named after Elizabeth the First, John Cordy inspired the naming of Chad, as well as Smallness, Rhode Island.
I think the best relic is the one you make on your own instrument.
When I get a new guitar I enjoy it as it comes. As days go by I start finding these little marks here and there and I don’t get sad nor happy, but after 5 years you can clearly feel the instrument is really yours.
I can’t imagine paying a fee just for the look and missing out on this whole aging experience I get by myself.
The heavier relics just come across as borrowed valor.
Well put. Borrowed is putting it lightly though. It's always seemed pretentious to me
My les Paul has started to get worn on the back and I see it as a badge of honor because it all came from many hours of me playing it
Agree with this 100% you've worn it your self from your consistent practice and love of the music. Paying for the wear is lame.
If it’s polyurethane it’s not going to age. Not in your lifetime. Only nitro.
I specialise in making relic guitars out of a custom shop. That this ‘spoiled’ the mystique of relic designed guitars is odd. Depending on the level of wear you’re fabricating, there is every kind of tool/item used to create what I call controlled chaos. I’ve used scalpels, so many kinds of blades, files, the ground I’m standing on, keys, cigarettes, heat, cold, various metal objects, acid… it’s a long list. My most recent work was an EVH Frankie replica. That took a while with extreme attention to detail, level of wear between the 3 colours. It’s as era accurate as possible.
It’s that magnified attention to detail that makes a good luthier. The dings, scratches, fades etc… it has to mimic the origin of how and when they happened on the real thing, and there is an art to it that took years to perfect.
I’ll add, I think relic guitars are a love/hate thing. I’ve always loved them, but Gibson don’t impress me at all.
It used to be that a reliced guitar was a a sign of an instrument that was unputdownable. Not any more.
What I alkways find super funny: When you sell a used regular Gibson Custom shop with wear which just happended it will lower the selling price, when it's "aged" you will be able to get a higher price. This is really a wild concept.
Exactly! It's so freaking backwards it's ridiculous.
I like the light aging. It’s just the “broke-in” feeling. Makes me feel like I want to use it instead of just stare at it. Not a fan of the heavy relic, just makes it look like nobody cares about that guitar, but we all love worn in boots and jeans.
100%. Same with people who like patina on a car. Some people simply like the feel/look of it. Makes it feel like an old trusty pair of boots. Many people just prefer that. To this day I still have no clue why so many people struggle to understand ageing, when it's been done for so many years on many vehicles, and even on clothing.
I am on the fence. I prefer nice shiny clean guitars. I never ever gig with a dirty guitar. Want it to look good like my muscle car! Having said that, early this year I bought a Les Paul Std. Faded ‘50’s. Satin finish not aged obviously but the TONE!!! Neck feels great, tone is warm! I have played Custom Shop Gibson VOS models and I like them a lot! In general the thinned finish allows the wood to breathe and to me sounds better. Same thing on relic’d Fenders. Some people want all the dings and stuff but for me it is about tone and the feel. Warmer more inviting.
I was bemoaning the weather shock checking on my LP Custom, saying that I should have been better with its care and my bandmate turned to me and said 'Dude, people pay for this sh#@!t.'
I’ve got two “custom shop” guitars that came out shiny and perfect. Both are showing signs of age being 15-18 years old. They are not extremely beat up because I try to respect the craftsmanship and cost. What they show in aging has happened honestly.
If you talk to Chris at K-Line, he’ll tell you that with his guitars it’s more time-consuming and laborious to make a perfect NOS finish than his closet-classic or full relic guitars. They don’t all start out perfect and then receive relic. There are more steps of wet, sanding, and spraying and polishing to get things to lay flat and glossy on an NOS Guitar.
I used to be a fan of relic guitars, and have owned several custom shop models. But something switched in me a few years ago, and I realized I was paying more for less. And I actually like the look of a perfectly finished guitar. I’m not opposed to an old guitar that has honest wear, but I’d like to put that wear on myself.
I personally hate distressed guitars. I'd rather put the damage on myself, by way of gigging and travel.
I never thought it was a secret guitar brands relic this way. As far as I know guitars with any relic are done this way, no matter the brand.
Tom Murphy has always had his bag of tricks and his never ever tried to hide it as a big secret, l personally like the ultra lights so l bought one and as Tom has said “Ohh yeah the ultra lights will age depending on how much you play them” and his right mine has aged considerably whereas the heavy aged and the ultra heavy aged guitars, well he really doesn’t know where they can go from there ……
All I need to know is what tone you were using at the beginning. Glorious tone!
Furniture makers have been using these same distressing methods for 20 years. Locks, nails and spikes.
I don't know what you think they were doing to put dings, scratches and marks on these things. I just laughed while I watched it because I knew it was going to trigger guys who either spent a fortune on these things or were considering it. The use of random metal objects, doesn't mean they are just randomly banging on the guitar. If you actually watched the video, he explains that there is a meticulous and artistic process to getting a realistic "old heavily gig'ed" appearance. So if watching that video put you off from buying a fake relic guitar and spending ungawdly amounts of money on something like that, all the better. To me, the worst part of the video was the snake oil nonsense about finish being some major "tone" factor. It's not an acoustic. You're hugging the thing against your body so this idea that "thin nitro" magically "opens up" a guitar is some goofy stuff. But that kind of snake oil crap is how they can squeeze crazy money from people who buy into it.
I'm a fortunate owner of an old Gibson and a Murphy Lab that mirrors it. The Murphy Lab is a fantastic playing and sounding guitar; I rarely put it in a case. It's also a work of art, not simply wood with strings. I do understand where John is coming from, but I respectfully see it from a different perspective. Art is about the relationship the artist creates between themselves, their work, and the buyer--If the type of brushes the artist uses or the price their art commands are the main concerns, then you have to differentiate between being at an art gallery vs an art auction or sale.
Nash has been doing it for decades, love mine and it's never been a mystery. All of them do it this way. Checking is usually down with a facto knife to start. It is what it is. I love my Nash and how chewed up it is
For those of us that always saw relicing as a tacky fake aging, the Murphy lab video didn’t come as a surprise.
I don’t understand, how would you think they would do this??
Ridiculously overpriced instruments that cost more than my work truck that feeds my family. That's what ruined anything having that Gibson branding. For crying out loud its a piece of wood.
Unfortunately, the Murphy Lab has become to the Custom Shop what the CS was to Gibson USA - ie, they get first dibs on the woods before the CS and Gibson USA.
I am having trouble fathoming why any of this would get to you or anyone.
I do like the relicing, but on the flipside some cracks appeared around the pickguard hole on my LP and a bunch of nitro broke off. I was gutted and immediately thought about how to repair it.
There's a reverb mini-doc with Dennis Fano going through the whole process at Novo. Fano showed basically the same stuff as they use in the Murphy Lab. I don't think the interview with Lee Anderton let any genie out of the bottle... Anybody who's been aware of relic'd guitars for awhile knows this already.
What put me off most from the interview is learning about their "custom lacquer", that not only ages way quicker, but also comes off more easily. I would assume that such a guitar will not "age as gracefully" as an instrument with a normal old lacquer that has some miles on it..
The best ´mojo´or smooth feel when playing a guitar is achieved by your own playing throughout the years, or by buying a very used instrument. An instrument that vibrated enough to have its wood settled, and a neck that was played enough to smoothing out naturally through playing motion. I can´t think of anything better - and this is my experienced opinion regarding heavy relic guitars from all big brands. We all may feel different about it, and that´s OK. We are all free to go and find what suits us best. :) Great video.
How did you think the relic was done?
Im not a huge relic fan (although a little neck/body wear can feel nice when playing), but in fairness to Gibson, I think everyone else uses the same methods for aging 'Vintage' Custom Shop models. The methods are well enough known, they're just the ones who have let customers, as you said, see how the sausage is made (which is a good analogy here, as knowledge of it may put off customers).
Also I truly hate the feeling of that first scrape or ding on something, but after that the blemishes just become irrelevant to me. Take care of things sure, but instruments are things meant to be played and used and have their own character imo, not ornaments.
Idea behind relic guitar is bringing it home without hassle and say "I bought this old guitar with a great deal." 😂
Personally, I like them and from an acoustic point of view, it does make sense to chequer the top to allow the wood underneath to breath and vibrate more.. Relicing is a great option for the market place and the choice is all yours!
I laugh every time someone says they paid more than 1500 dollars for an electric guitar.
Like the old saying goes, we love our sausage but trust me, you really don't want to see it being made.
Nice but I'll stick with my Epi '59. 🙂
It’s a great guitar, but will almost never show wear!
Never really understood relicing other than any part of the process that might make it play better (like the back of the neck as you mention).
Totally agree that they can't have themselves any favour with this video. Bizarre.
You sound like the kid who just found out there's no Santa Claus. How did you think relicing was done? This is no secret, since the first reliced guitars everyone was aware of how dents and dings were done. This is one of the most trifling videos I've ever seen.
There was no trifle in this video. Santa Claus is a good analogy....Some things you're better off not seeing - like what goes into making a Burger. Seeing the bloke who has his name on the Murphy lab just boink a guitar with a large spike looks a little silly, no?
Man that is a tune right out of the heart and soul of people who struggle to move forward, to take care of family and friends, and to overcome tyranny.
What model of LP are u holding in this video?
He has a 2002, Regular, I believe.
@@ksharpe10 fuckin "regular"?
@@geet77777 Well not a Custom Shop or Murphy lab. John's is a 60 Standard Gibson.
Ive got an amazing relic'd Strat, it only took me 35 years to get the finish almost right, still working on it.
I have a murphy lab. I genuinely love it and it inspires me to play. That said, I definitely feel conflicted about it's heavy relic being cool or not.
It's not cool I'm afraid.A 90's Standard would look more authentic, and be a 1/4 of the price, and be much cooler.
@@someonecalledjoe6368 I have a USA Grace Potter flying V that I bought used about a decade ago. Genuinely hard to argue that guitar isn't better in every way, and was literally 1/6th the price of my ML Les Paul. I can't put the Les Paul down though, for whatever reason.
Buying a guitar where people age it artificially is 100% not cool. If paying the premium for a Gibson is for the “authenticity” why would you add fake aging and scratching. Stop trying to pretend it’s something it is not. It’s not a vintage guitar, it’s a pre-dinged new one.
If the story behind your guitar’s wear is “oh some dude at a factory did it with railroad spikes” that is lame. Nobody cares other than you overspent by a huge margin.
@@wootksPeople who buy relic’d guitars understand that they are new. It’s not about fake stories and all that. Some people just like the look. What’s wrong with that?
"Nobody cares other than you overspent by a huge margin." Exactly, so if no one cares why am I not free to enjoy it with impunity?
The idea of deliberately damaging a guitar for cool factor ruined it for me.
It's a meaning of relicing a guitar
@@bagazheful Why pay tons more for a brand new damaged guitar than you would for a used guitar?
@@Rhythmicons that way you pay a professional, not someone who's amateur at this. As with any task you can do it yourself after educating via RUclips and save buck. ✌️
@@bagazheful ehh, its for poseurs
I don’t get how people consider “aging” and damage to be the same. I think they should just use nickel plated hardware on the guitar and finish it with the thinnest possible acrylic finish - thin enough that you can still feel the grain through it, the way nice furniture is finished. Then when you just use the guitar normally, you will have a nice vintage-aged looking instrument in less than a year.
Was Tom using the key to the front or back door?
what was that epically beautiful intro you played? I’m looking into buying an all in one, as long as I play more than I change parameters, and the solo tone you used in the intro is exactly what I would like to have as a preset. I’m also feeling as if i’m a bit late to the game of modellers etc and keep finding myself wondering about their longevity. Am I right to be concerned and to wait the eternal wait for the unit to end all units or do I just get one and be happy? Line 6 might be at about my level of competence/ patience? Thoughts?
I had a '54 Les Paul Custom re-issue that Tom Murphy "reliced" using a razor blade. The re-sale value increased dramatically because it represented an early example of TM's relic-ing work. Beast of a guitar, too!
So how do you think the damage and distressing was caused? If not by someone applying some 'considered' abuse using abrasive materials. . and how would you have preferred tne process to have been implemented? For what it's worth, I have a 2-month old ultra light aged LP, and was surprised how easily the paint and laquer comes off - I only have to look at it and another blemish appears 😂. However, I'm of a certain age and I don't have time to wait 40 years for a new guitar to look like ones I bought back in the 80s and 90s. I thought about the VOS, but they look and feel like a TV prop to me and remind me of those vintage pianos that get re lacquered, rather than French polished. So I guess it's really an individual choice and Gibson are trying to cover all bases. However, I think they need to make it really explicit that the ultra light and light aged models will continue to age rapidly. This fact is only ever mentioned in passing in interview etc... but should be advertised, as I suspect there must be a lot of people out there wondering if they accidentally keep dinging their new toy.
Its not about just jamming it and banging it, it takes massive skill and artistry to get it right. If you can do it better, go ahead. I bang up all my own guitars by playing them everyday, thats a great way to do it.
Murphy labs is a scam... theres so many better options for far cheaper
Plus relics are pretty sad, an all matte guitar feels way better than any relic
According to T.M. the new 'Old' finish that lends itself to checking and the rest - the finish he concocted over the years and makes the Murphy Lab possible and the aging repeatable. That finish is thinner and allows greater resonance, similar to the original instruments they try to replicate. So the murphy lab guitars play older as well. which may be worth the additional cost sans railroad spike treatment!! cheers!
It’s much the same process we use in film props .. many different things are used to distress and age things. The key is to use research of real aging and use lots of different tools to create it. The trickiest thing to do is to keep it random looking and create layers.
I quite like some relics but Saying that I saw a Murphy lab 335 heavy relic that looked absolutely terrible, it looked like someone had tried it for the first time and spilt tippex on the top.
I Don't get the aversion. How do some of you think they were doing it?
My 335, has whats called “Patina” theres no dent or dings or wear, its a very light age that just feels real nice. Maybe the best guitar I own, and yes ou can tell the finish is very light, and the plastics and binding is absolutely different, and yes its hand wired unpotted custom buckers. But it didnt feel lik a production line thick sticky feeling nitro, and the chrome has slight patina it felt like a nice used guitar, I absolutely did not want relic’d. At all. I want my play wear on it but it does feel like an old guitar that was kept in the case for years and well cared for but, it feels played in. Side by side with my production line, there was no comparison the custom wasnt even in the same ball park it was a completely different guitar. Way above my standard. So I sold the standard. But the finish. Light patina is cool, thats as far as I go. Eder would call it a “Journyman” finish I suppose.
I watched the whole interview with Tom Murphy and didn't think about it too much then, but then today when you said "seeing how the sausage is made", I think I totally agree with the points you're making in this video.
Historic Makeovers is around the corner from where I live, Ironically I do not know the Guys that work there. They have been redoing regular Gibsons into 50's replicas, for at least 10 years now.
How does the saying go? “Sunlight is the best disinfectant”?
Like you said, no one wants to know how the sausage is made. They are selling the mystique and mojo. Once you realize it’s actually an inferior finish and they’re throwing keys at it, a lot of the romance dies.
Similarly, an old gibson factory tour video they themselves submitted absolutely ruined gibson guitars for me. All I saw was uninterested workers throwing pieces of wood into a machine until a guitar was dumped on the other end. The money shot at the end, a MASSIVE warehouse PACKED with guitars destroyed the whole thing for me.
What I got from the video was that Gibson nailed production so much that they didn't even need real luthiers or motivated workers anymore. EVERYTHING was being made with machines and the only human interaction was replacing the pieces of wood going into and out of the machines. That's it. So if that's the case... Then WHY the hell are they charging multiple thousands of dollars for a guitar??? I have 0, ZERO, issues with machines building guitars, but god dammit, I expect to pay like a machine built the guitar: LOW PRICES. They replaced human labor for machines, increased production by 50 fold and expect me to pay the same amount? screw that. If I'm paying that much, I expect a human being to build my instrument and pocket the money, not a bunch of executives that probably can't even play the damn thing in the first place.
For me, it is the ridiculous prices they are asking for the relicing. Got a heavy reluced custom build strat for half of what they ask for their heavy reliced guitars, and I still think it was a ridiculous price for what basically is, someone damaging your guitar.
I’ve been playing for 58 years and I don’t want relic anything. I have built fine furniture and if was relic then you would use a screwdriver, wrench, rebar, etc. I don’t want to know how they do it. I don’t want relic anything. The concept is stupid unless you are getting an exact SRV strat maybe.
I found an ultra light aged R9 with a chevron flame. It feels played. Rolled fretboard edges and the hardware has the machined edges on the bridge and tailpiece smoothed out. The checking can’t been seen unless you’re close up. At that point, the flames are mesmerizing. That said, I wish it sounded like a burst. The pickups need an improvement. Tom’s lab does a great job on the finish, but they need an Artist to design the pickups. The neck pickup sounds like it’s muffled. The bridge is passable but needs to sound more open. I own a few guitars that have been played extensively by me at various festivals, concerts, clubs etc. over the last 40 years, and although they show signs of bumping here and there, maybe some checking, none have the bling wear and buckle rash or fretboard divots. I can’t see paying another 2K$ for that. It’s crazy. I checked out a heavy relic and I’ll admit, it was very convincing and thorough, I went with the ultra light model. The 10K list pushed me away. I played some Fender Masterbuilt’s from around 2010 and at that time they were 5K$. They were very convincing as well. Even had aged magnets. The bridge on the Strat was sweet not harsh. The aging thing is very polarizing. I guess if you’re old like me, buy a real vintage guitar if you want great feel and sound. You have to find a Tuesday guitar however. Those Monday and Friday guitars can be a bit off.😊
Before considering time consuming and potentially expensive changes (like Pickups) in the future, I suggest looking into the cheapest mod first… Capacitors. If you hear/feel that there is tone held back when it comes out of a particular pickup and your amp, try swapping out your 0.022u cap for a 0.015u.
I am currently working through my guitars and swapping out Caps where I feel the tone is veiled. This very quick and cheap change can transform the tone to my ears on my guitars, it does also add airiness when the tone control is fully open. When playing with gain and tone control is fully off this mod gives you better woman tone. It cries more. The tone is not just muffled any more it gives your guitar a different nasal quacky character with gain. Mileage varies from guitar to guitar, but when it works particularly well, it’s flipping marvellous.
Be sure to check your POT readings too, as if they are well below 500k you’ll want to consider swapping them out with higher values.
The same principle applies to single coils, albeit with 250k pots and possibly moving to 0.022u caps from 0.047u.
I am using Monty’s Guitars 0.015u caps in the UK for my neck humbucker PuP’s, 50’s wiring approach and it’s amazing what a difference it can make, even without changing POT values or any other wiring tweaks.
@djt6546 Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try. Easily reversible and much cheaper than a set of PAF's :)
It doesn’t bother me about the different tools and items they use to get that finished product. When I first saw them - when the relics first started - I laughed at it for years. What changed my mind is, I’m not a collector. I’m a player. I’ve grown in my option of them enough to recognize a great guitar sounds great even if it looks heavily aged and isn’t. So, it doesn’t bother me anymore. It also takes a little stress off of people that play their guitars and gig often and having to try and not get a ding here and there.
Another aspect of why I’m happy he came out with what they do - people can take that and try their own hand at it. If they are so inclined to do that.
My guitars have aged from playing them. I have some higher end guitars that I try and keep very clean. The one Novo I ordered a few years ago, was one of the last you get with no distress. Ice metallic blue and it's gorgeous still. I would just never pay an upcharge for distressing.
Agree with your thoughts regarding the aging. Being that I'm a woodworker who refurbishes furniture, I understand how aging parts (in my case furniture) to make new parts blend with the old, original parts makes sense-- and there is a real art to it. Concerning "relic" guitars, I think most people already suspect that heavy relicing involves methods antithetical to proper guitar care. Personally, I like the feel of the relic models (whatever finish Gibson/Fender are using), but not enough to pay such a premium. An oiled, roasted maple neck has a similar feel, for example, and is far less costly.
I think the heavy relic stuff misses the point. What we want is a guitar that plays as well as those made in the late 50s / early 60s and looks how they were in their prime in the late 60s - mid 70s. They were only 10-15 years old at the time and looked pretty clean for the most part unless they had been stripped or refinished. The only heavily worn guitar I remember from the time was Rory Gallagher's Strat. It wasn't till the late 80s / early 90s that you would see a lot of 50s finishes cracking and flaking badly.
what is the name of color finish?
I remember the Pre War Guitar Co guys talking about hurling coins and keys at their Brazilian Rosewood builds, which is just insane to me. Just play the damn thing, and don’t take decades off an instrument’s life for no reason. Some nitro grazing is fine, but this shit is stupid.
Never seen the point of buying an expensive guitar that's been deliberately damaged to make it look old, because you couldn't afford to buy an actual old guitar. I can sort of understand it if the damage is to make the guitar into a film prop, but not so you can pretend you've got an old guitar. If you could go back to the 50s or 60s to get a real guitar of the period, back in the golden age of rock & roll, you'd have got a new guitar that was new and looked new. There were no ancient Les Pauls then. When I was a teenager I got told off by a guitar shop keeper for taking an expensive guitar off the wall while wearing a shirt that had "horrible nasty buttons"; nowadays they do that and more and people will pay more for them!
I don’t mind so much that they perform the relicing, but it does raise questions to me that they charge so much more for a reliced instrument. Literally damaging it and charging you extra… yet if I boyght the same custom shop and it had natural wear and tear and didn’t have the murphy lab moniker it would resale at a reduced rate due to “used imperfections”.
Soo go on reverb and find a mint condition murphy lab and then look at a used gibson in similar condition that can only be devalued at “good” condition pricing.
What I find interesting is the people that don't realize that's how they're made. There's absolutely nothing secret or mysterious about it, never has been. To say it's "ruined" for you is like eating hamburgers your entire life then finding out it comes from cows and being shocked.......