Sparkling wine is traditionally around 5 atmosphere or 70psi. That is why the bottles are so much thicker than a beer bottle and the corks are wired on.
Exactly my thinking. Can a bottle conditioned wine ferment to a high enough pressure, in a proper champagne bottle of course? Or are all sparkling wines force carbonated???
That dosn't matter for brewing yeast. It only really stops wild yeast. It will slow brewing yeast, and can make off flavors, but it wont prevent you from pitching more good yeast and sugar.
Every year I do a 5 gallon batch of pink moscato for my wife and carbonate it in a keg. It stays carbonated - maybe not Champagne/Prosecco levels - but well carbed. I shake for a few minutes with the regulator set to 35 and the wine chilled and that's it. I've also done the carb cap method with similar success. I wish I could help you pinpoint the problem.
You don't need to leave it months. Minutes of shaking will work. If you aren't getting bubbles then increase the pressure and keep going. PET bottles should be good for 100PSI and champagne bottles for about 88PSI. So if you get to 88PSI in a PET bottle at ~3C, shake it for 20 minutes, and still have no fizz, then we'll have to circle back round.
Champagne has around 4.5- 6 volumes of co2, hence the thick bottles/wired caps etc... 7 months with a carb stone is pointless, it would of been saturated with 30psi after about 4-5 days assuming it was kept cold? For a champagne-like carbonation, at 40°F you will need about 50 PSI to get about 6 volumes of CO2 into solution.
The main issue for the wine referment to get bubbles is that the wine has been stabilized (metabisulfide I believe?) so it would stay a sweet wine and not ferment to dry. So most if not all yeast died instantly when you added it to the bottle. You would need to find a "raw" wine that hasnt been stabilized somehow other then by heat. The kegs are your best bet as the other comments are saying 60-90 psi.
Came here to say this. Especially cheap wine is a stabilized product that will be safeguarded against refermentation. Unstabilized natural wine is your best bet. It's also a safe bet to guess "cheap champagne" lovers won't instantly be into funky natty wines, sparkling or not.
Or you cna use yeast that dosn't care about potassium metabysulphate and will truck RIGHT THROUGH IT! E1118 is able to do this for me with good consistency, and most turbo yeasts wouldn't give a shit about stabilizing chemicals either.
I see a few possibilities for why this didn’t work. As several people mentioned, wine stabilizers are highly likely present keeping refermentation at bay. Secondly, premier blanc’s alcohol tolerance is 13-15%. Depending on the ABV of the wine, you may already be near or at that threshold. For reference, Cook’s is only 11.5%. I make my own club soda at home in PET plastic bottles. What I do is to utilize a carb cap with a carb stone. I chill the product as cold as I can get it, set my regulator to about 50 psi, connect the gas and shake it until no more bubbles come out of the carb stone (3-5 minutes). I might just try this myself with an inexpensive wine just to see what my results are.
I do it all the time. The carb caps work great for me when making bubbly wine. Need to use cold wine, high psi around 20 (know the limit of your pet bottles and wear protection) and you have to shake for at least 5. Then let rest and shake again for 5 min. Return to fridge for a good 20 min before serving (open bottle slowly). If you want to play it safe and use lower psi, you'll need to do 3 or 4 shaking sessions keeping it cold in-between. Surprisingly I get very soft foamy and fine bubbles like commercial bubbly and not at all like soda.
I think the only way to do this is to use a white wine homebrew kit and not add the stabliser + yeast mix, sulfates etc. just use a champagne yeast off the shelf then once it is brewed syphon it straight into a corni keg or bottles and treat it the way you would a beer, however if using bottles you will likely get some sediment as its not been cleared. Trying to carbonate a shelf stablised flat wine is a loosing battle from the start.
Get a white wine kit start it off open and then spundit for the end of fermentation in a keg to the presssure you need to get 5 vols. Cold crash and closed add finings. Then counter pressure bottle fill. You'll be good.
So my question with attempt #1 was why would you choose to only wait 2 days to bottle carb? Beer doesn't carbonate in a bottle in only 2 days. My next question with attempt #1 and #2 is did you check to make sure no -ites or -ates were added to preserve the wine? If so then obvi they won't referment even with adding new yeasts....
I have fizzy wine on tap - it was the only way my wife would let me have a keezer indoors! It's just homebrew wine kits (Something like a 30 bottle Beaverdale wine kit) and it usually sits at about 15 - 20 PSI. Getting the pour right where you don't just get head takes a bit of fine tuning with beer line lengths and pressures etc
Be sure to check the pressure rating of your tubing before cranking your regulator. Compressed gas is no joke! Agree you need higher pressures. I use 30-40psi for my ciders. Anything less feels flat.
Cheers for sharing the cider info and the equipment safety tip - kegged the first few batches from the home brewery this year to great success, great to know there's even more options for the taps now!
I've used a Soda Stream to fizz my home made wine. You have to be patient and fizz it a little bit at a time and let the foam die down and then release the pressure slowly, but it certainly works.
I agree with other commenters on needing more pressure. I need 30-40psi to get a good bite out of carbonated water. Beer is carbonated to a relatively low level. I'm guessing you also lost most of the carbonation from the keg when pouring it (all of the foam is the CO2 breaking out of solution; think of when you open a shaken up beer and it foams all over the place and then is relatively flat). You may want one of those flow restricting ball lock connectors (they make duotight ones like the regular one you were using) or longer/smaller diameter line to help limit how much foam you get when pouring the sparkling wine.
I now want a proper solution to this. I dedicate a small keg for margaritas but it is not carbonated and I just use nitrogen to pressurize for the picnic tap extraction.
Great Experiment Martin. I have been trying this for the last couple of months using homemade (sulphite free) wine. My best results were 40psi (Reg wont go any higher) in the keg and then counter pressure bottle filling and this was still not good enough to pass muster with the women in the house. The next option was to carb to 30, counter pressure and try and add sugar before capping but this caused massive eruptions before I could get the cap on. Current attempt is to revert to the old fashioned way and carb in the bottle, riddle, and degorge. Sounds as if is going to be very messy and I will let you know if I manage it.
I used a 2 letter bottle filled with one bottle of cold wine. Squeeze out all the air and screw on the cap. I set my CO2 to 50 psi and filled the bottle.shak a lot and add more CO2. You can serve it right away.
There are 2 main variables here that are working against you. 1. The higher alcohol content because ethanol can’t be carbonated. 2. The picnic tap you used knocked what little carbonation toy had out of suspension. I keep a moscato wine on tap in my keezer at all times and it ALWAYS pours with bubbles that linger. Here’s what I do: 1. Make a standard wine kit that hovers in the 8% ABV range. Don’t be afraid to water it down to keep it under 10%. This is a critical number. Go over an you loose bubbles fast. 8% is nice though. 2. Use a high quality tap like the nukatap. Looking for low agitation here. 3. Colder the better. 36° holds on to the bubbles longer.
I’ve done this before with a soft drink bottle and 60psi of pressure. I guess it’s a little scary but haven’t had a blow out yet. My favourite use-case is making 2L of April Spritz to take to the beach!
Yeah, i made wine and carbonated it in a keg, can't remember what pressure but it was a lot more than i usually have beer at. Carbonation was good, but that was it. Could not get the sweetness right so I concluded that i will buy all my sparkling wine from now on.
Simple answer is the wine you are using has been stabilized and kills the yeast. I make home made orange wine in a 25 litre bin (30 bottles) Add 10 lites of fresh orange juice, 5kg of granulated sugar (boiled) 5 teaspoons of super yeast, 5 teaspoons of yeast nutrient, 5 cups if black tea, and 5 teaspoons of pectolase. Top up with tap water mix and leave at average of 20 to 24 C for 3 to 4 weeks or until it naturally clears. This should come out at about 14 to 16 % alcohol. It is delicious on its own but to make it into a delicious sparking wine do not use any stabilising agents. Simply siphon the wine into an old prosecco bottle. Add 1/4 teaspoon of sugar mixed with a pinch of super yeast then cork with plastic stopper and wire cage. Leave for 4 weeks at room temp and there you have it. NB chill before opening to avoid an explosion. Wirks out at about 80 pence a bottle. 😁
Haha! I've done the carb cap trick to make sparkling wine out of flat wine. High pressure, like 30 psi, make sure its cold and shake for like 3 mins with co2 attached. Never quite matches a fine bottle of champagne though
By champagne standards, even 30 psi isn't all that high. Some are twice that. Good sparkling wine is bottle conditioned. Actually doing some math, and figuring out how much sugar to use to get 5 vols of co2 is probably your best bet.
If there were any bubbles in the keg experiment, you completely nullified it with that awful foamy pour. I can have my beer heavily carbonated in a keg but when I pour foam (by using a very short hose like you did lmao) all the carbonation will escape the moment it hits the glass.
Weird. It should have worked with the champagne yeast and sugar, even if there are sulfites left in the wine. It did when I tried it. Maybe use a champagne yeast starter like the pro's do?
Nice subject. For real champagne, from the champagne region in France, the flat wine is bottled with yeast and sugar. It is then put in a warm room for some time and left in the cellars for at least a year, but often 3. Now with beer I use 8-10 grams/liter, and that beer is still carbonated from fermentation. Now keep in mind that champagne has a much higher carbonation level than beer (about 6 atmosphere of pressure), that's why it's in such a rigid bottle, and that the wine you start out with has no carbonation at all. So you need way more sugar than you are using and you need to use champagne bottles to withstand the pressure. Using real champagne yeast instead of beer yeast might not be a bad idea either. let it lie for a year at cellar temperatures, 3-5 C I would say, and your results should be better. I've made sparkling cider with 12g/l, that contained some rest CO2 from fermentation and it was nowhere near as fizzy as champagne.
And champagne typically uses 24g/L of sugar, as well as riddling adjuncts like bentonite, nutrients, and an activated yeast culture with a high cell count that's already been acclimatized to the base wine conditions
But... but why not just add a actual champaign yeast to the wine, add enough sugar to get like, 18% abv like a champaign is, and bottle carb it? Like... You used bread yeast, my guy!
Chill wine in 2L bottle (fresca preferable) half way fillled, 30 PSI @Homebrew4life SHake Method ! It has worked for me just fine the smaller bottles i have a seal issue with the carb caps.
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Sparkling wine is traditionally around 5 atmosphere or 70psi. That is why the bottles are so much thicker than a beer bottle and the corks are wired on.
And the bottom of the bottles are usually designed differently- they arent flat and have an inner curve for added strength
Exactly my thinking. Can a bottle conditioned wine ferment to a high enough pressure, in a proper champagne bottle of course? Or are all sparkling wines force carbonated???
That wine most definitely had sulfates or whatever added to them to help kill yeast
He has figured it out!
That dosn't matter for brewing yeast. It only really stops wild yeast. It will slow brewing yeast, and can make off flavors, but it wont prevent you from pitching more good yeast and sugar.
Every year I do a 5 gallon batch of pink moscato for my wife and carbonate it in a keg. It stays carbonated - maybe not Champagne/Prosecco levels - but well carbed. I shake for a few minutes with the regulator set to 35 and the wine chilled and that's it. I've also done the carb cap method with similar success. I wish I could help you pinpoint the problem.
I like the sounds of this - nice to have something fizzy on hand for the folks that prefer something other than beer, bravo!
Use a soda stream, works perfectly every time, takes seconds.
You don't need to leave it months. Minutes of shaking will work. If you aren't getting bubbles then increase the pressure and keep going. PET bottles should be good for 100PSI and champagne bottles for about 88PSI. So if you get to 88PSI in a PET bottle at ~3C, shake it for 20 minutes, and still have no fizz, then we'll have to circle back round.
Champagne has around 4.5- 6 volumes of co2, hence the thick bottles/wired caps etc... 7 months with a carb stone is pointless, it would of been saturated with 30psi after about 4-5 days assuming it was kept cold?
For a champagne-like carbonation, at 40°F you will need about 50 PSI to get about 6 volumes of CO2 into solution.
The main issue for the wine referment to get bubbles is that the wine has been stabilized (metabisulfide I believe?) so it would stay a sweet wine and not ferment to dry. So most if not all yeast died instantly when you added it to the bottle. You would need to find a "raw" wine that hasnt been stabilized somehow other then by heat. The kegs are your best bet as the other comments are saying 60-90 psi.
Potassium sorbate is used as well. Inactivates the yeast.
Came here to say this. Especially cheap wine is a stabilized product that will be safeguarded against refermentation. Unstabilized natural wine is your best bet. It's also a safe bet to guess "cheap champagne" lovers won't instantly be into funky natty wines, sparkling or not.
Or you cna use yeast that dosn't care about potassium metabysulphate and will truck RIGHT THROUGH IT! E1118 is able to do this for me with good consistency, and most turbo yeasts wouldn't give a shit about stabilizing chemicals either.
I see a few possibilities for why this didn’t work. As several people mentioned, wine stabilizers are highly likely present keeping refermentation at bay. Secondly, premier blanc’s alcohol tolerance is 13-15%. Depending on the ABV of the wine, you may already be near or at that threshold. For reference, Cook’s is only 11.5%.
I make my own club soda at home in PET plastic bottles. What I do is to utilize a carb cap with a carb stone. I chill the product as cold as I can get it, set my regulator to about 50 psi, connect the gas and shake it until no more bubbles come out of the carb stone (3-5 minutes). I might just try this myself with an inexpensive wine just to see what my results are.
I do it all the time. The carb caps work great for me when making bubbly wine. Need to use cold wine, high psi around 20 (know the limit of your pet bottles and wear protection) and you have to shake for at least 5. Then let rest and shake again for 5 min. Return to fridge for a good 20 min before serving (open bottle slowly). If you want to play it safe and use lower psi, you'll need to do 3 or 4 shaking sessions keeping it cold in-between. Surprisingly I get very soft foamy and fine bubbles like commercial bubbly and not at all like soda.
Crazy!! I’ve got no idea why it wouldn’t work? Cheers Martin!
you've never bottle conditioned? it takes 14 days....
I think the only way to do this is to use a white wine homebrew kit and not add the stabliser + yeast mix, sulfates etc. just use a champagne yeast off the shelf then once it is brewed syphon it straight into a corni keg or bottles and treat it the way you would a beer, however if using bottles you will likely get some sediment as its not been cleared. Trying to carbonate a shelf stablised flat wine is a loosing battle from the start.
Yes just use a sodastream did it many times great wine into champagne
Get a white wine kit start it off open and then spundit for the end of fermentation in a keg to the presssure you need to get 5 vols. Cold crash and closed add finings. Then counter pressure bottle fill. You'll be good.
So my question with attempt #1 was why would you choose to only wait 2 days to bottle carb? Beer doesn't carbonate in a bottle in only 2 days. My next question with attempt #1 and #2 is did you check to make sure no -ites or -ates were added to preserve the wine? If so then obvi they won't referment even with adding new yeasts....
I have fizzy wine on tap - it was the only way my wife would let me have a keezer indoors! It's just homebrew wine kits (Something like a 30 bottle Beaverdale wine kit) and it usually sits at about 15 - 20 PSI.
Getting the pour right where you don't just get head takes a bit of fine tuning with beer line lengths and pressures etc
How about adding some dry ice for carbonation?
Be sure to check the pressure rating of your tubing before cranking your regulator. Compressed gas is no joke!
Agree you need higher pressures. I use 30-40psi for my ciders. Anything less feels flat.
Cheers for sharing the cider info and the equipment safety tip - kegged the first few batches from the home brewery this year to great success, great to know there's even more options for the taps now!
Hey brother
You think you’ll ever do the challenge again with a different beer from every category again? Loved it.
I've used a Soda Stream to fizz my home made wine. You have to be patient and fizz it a little bit at a time and let the foam die down and then release the pressure slowly, but it certainly works.
I agree with other commenters on needing more pressure. I need 30-40psi to get a good bite out of carbonated water. Beer is carbonated to a relatively low level. I'm guessing you also lost most of the carbonation from the keg when pouring it (all of the foam is the CO2 breaking out of solution; think of when you open a shaken up beer and it foams all over the place and then is relatively flat). You may want one of those flow restricting ball lock connectors (they make duotight ones like the regular one you were using) or longer/smaller diameter line to help limit how much foam you get when pouring the sparkling wine.
I now want a proper solution to this. I dedicate a small keg for margaritas but it is not carbonated and I just use nitrogen to pressurize for the picnic tap extraction.
Great Experiment Martin. I have been trying this for the last couple of months using homemade (sulphite free) wine. My best results were 40psi (Reg wont go any higher) in the keg and then counter pressure bottle filling and this was still not good enough to pass muster with the women in the house. The next option was to carb to 30, counter pressure and try and add sugar before capping but this caused massive eruptions before I could get the cap on. Current attempt is to revert to the old fashioned way and carb in the bottle, riddle, and degorge. Sounds as if is going to be very messy and I will let you know if I manage it.
More pressure?
It is definitely used for carbonation cap to make sparkly wine.
I used a 2 letter bottle filled with one bottle of cold wine. Squeeze out all the air and screw on the cap. I set my CO2 to 50 psi and filled the bottle.shak a lot and add more CO2. You can serve it right away.
There are 2 main variables here that are working against you.
1. The higher alcohol content because ethanol can’t be carbonated.
2. The picnic tap you used knocked what little carbonation toy had out of suspension.
I keep a moscato wine on tap in my keezer at all times and it ALWAYS pours with bubbles that linger. Here’s what I do:
1. Make a standard wine kit that hovers in the 8% ABV range. Don’t be afraid to water it down to keep it under 10%. This is a critical number. Go over an you loose bubbles fast. 8% is nice though.
2. Use a high quality tap like the nukatap. Looking for low agitation here.
3. Colder the better. 36° holds on to the bubbles longer.
Nice video. I have been using a DrinkMate (sodastream clone) to fizz wine and it works wonders on pretty much anything.
For a champagne-like carbonation, at 40°F you will need about 50 PSI to get about 6 volumes of CO2 into solution.
Ive got Homemade sparkling Apple cider but haven't made wine.
I’ve done this before with a soft drink bottle and 60psi of pressure. I guess it’s a little scary but haven’t had a blow out yet. My favourite use-case is making 2L of April Spritz to take to the beach!
Love this experiment! I'll give it a go
Yeah, i made wine and carbonated it in a keg, can't remember what pressure but it was a lot more than i usually have beer at. Carbonation was good, but that was it. Could not get the sweetness right so I concluded that i will buy all my sparkling wine from now on.
Well, you did almost everything right :)
When I do sparkling wine:
Keg, like 4 bars.
Counter pressure filler to bottle.
Enjoy!
Cheers Martin!
Haven’t seen the end yet but I do know that yeast can’t survive in the sulfides that commercial companies use.
Simple answer is the wine you are using has been stabilized and kills the yeast.
I make home made orange wine in a 25 litre bin (30 bottles) Add 10 lites of fresh orange juice, 5kg of granulated sugar (boiled) 5 teaspoons of super yeast, 5 teaspoons of yeast nutrient, 5 cups if black tea, and 5 teaspoons of pectolase. Top up with tap water mix and leave at average of 20 to 24 C for 3 to 4 weeks or until it naturally clears. This should come out at about 14 to 16 % alcohol. It is delicious on its own but to make it into a delicious sparking wine do not use any stabilising agents. Simply siphon the wine into an old prosecco bottle. Add 1/4 teaspoon of sugar mixed with a pinch of super yeast then cork with plastic stopper and wire cage. Leave for 4 weeks at room temp and there you have it. NB chill before opening to avoid an explosion. Wirks out at about 80 pence a bottle. 😁
This was such a cool video!
Haha! I've done the carb cap trick to make sparkling wine out of flat wine. High pressure, like 30 psi, make sure its cold and shake for like 3 mins with co2 attached. Never quite matches a fine bottle of champagne though
Our white wines might be cheap but they're still delicious 😋🇦🇷
By champagne standards, even 30 psi isn't all that high. Some are twice that. Good sparkling wine is bottle conditioned. Actually doing some math, and figuring out how much sugar to use to get 5 vols of co2 is probably your best bet.
If there were any bubbles in the keg experiment, you completely nullified it with that awful foamy pour. I can have my beer heavily carbonated in a keg but when I pour foam (by using a very short hose like you did lmao) all the carbonation will escape the moment it hits the glass.
Weird. It should have worked with the champagne yeast and sugar, even if there are sulfites left in the wine. It did when I tried it. Maybe use a champagne yeast starter like the pro's do?
I didn't know I needed to see this😂👌🖖
When I don't have any sparkling wine in stock. I just carbonate regular white wine and soda stream bottles
you can literally do this with a soda stream and you don't have to wait 7 months
You used the bulk Marchant process....bring on the headaches.
Nice experiment and great comments below. You should have Hellen in all of your videos from this day forward. 👍
It's wizardry 🤣
Nice subject. For real champagne, from the champagne region in France, the flat wine is bottled with yeast and sugar. It is then put in a warm room for some time and left in the cellars for at least a year, but often 3. Now with beer I use 8-10 grams/liter, and that beer is still carbonated from fermentation. Now keep in mind that champagne has a much higher carbonation level than beer (about 6 atmosphere of pressure), that's why it's in such a rigid bottle, and that the wine you start out with has no carbonation at all. So you need way more sugar than you are using and you need to use champagne bottles to withstand the pressure. Using real champagne yeast instead of beer yeast might not be a bad idea either. let it lie for a year at cellar temperatures, 3-5 C I would say, and your results should be better. I've made sparkling cider with 12g/l, that contained some rest CO2 from fermentation and it was nowhere near as fizzy as champagne.
And champagne typically uses 24g/L of sugar, as well as riddling adjuncts like bentonite, nutrients, and an activated yeast culture with a high cell count that's already been acclimatized to the base wine conditions
Gutting , did you say 7 months ?????? I’ll give you it you have proper dedication to the cause. Made a great vid though cheers 👍🍾🥂
But... but why not just add a actual champaign yeast to the wine, add enough sugar to get like, 18% abv like a champaign is, and bottle carb it? Like... You used bread yeast, my guy!
It's cool but you're not allowed to call it Champagne.
Champagne?
Its seriously not that hard. I have to be careful not to carbonate my wife's wine keg in the kegerator.
Chill wine in 2L bottle (fresca preferable) half way fillled, 30 PSI @Homebrew4life SHake Method ! It has worked for me just fine the smaller bottles i have a seal issue with the carb caps.