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Some years back I stayed at Brownsover Hall nr Rugby. It’s where Sir Frank did his development work. Some of the rooms have photos of the same room on the wall showing drawings and parts scattered everywhere with Sir Frank working there too
What a brilliant mind of a man,... yet the stubborn, stuffy, and small minded British governmental beaurocrats could not visualize the potential greatness of his endeavor. On the contrary, they made it almost impossible for him to succeed, and adding insult to injury, they stole his patent rights and gave his rights to their loyal financial supporters in the aviation industry. BUT his legacy as the first, will not be erased from history.
Thanks for this, There has been a lot of myth and revision concerning the history and development of the jet engine and reading the comments show it continues. As with most things there was existing science and ideas from all corners, BUT the very first proposal of a reaction engine being used as a prime mover for aircraft was made by Whittle. That is an absolute fact. His first patent for that idea was available in the libraries of Berlin before hostilities broke out. Whittle also patented the turbofan and re-heat (after burning) to cover every possible iteration. This was for his supersonic engine. Really, for once, a single mind was responsible for a great invention and I'd go further and suggest Whittle was a genius engineer who managed to solve countless problems in the construction of these engines which remain the state of the art. Edit: The fact he managed it all practically in a shed makes it even more impressive.
A good point and notable that Von Ohain was also on to the idea as were probably a couple of unnamed others. It is notable that when a USA Colonel went to the UK to see the prototype, the local engineers said the engine was mathematically impossible (or so the story goes).
'An absolute fact'? No.The first patent for using a standalone gas turbine to power an aircraft (turbojet) was filed in 1921 by Frenchman Maxime Guillaume.
Yes, you are 100% correct.. I;d forgotten about him. It was to be fair, the most basic description and drawing. I'd stick with everything I said, except cite Guillaume with the shell of the idea. Whittle with his high altitude efficiency, feasibility studies, all the mathematics and working engine, reheat and turbofan, engineering every concept from first principles in a shed sort of make it an interesting historical note on the Frenchman's part but not really too significant in the end. I wonder if Whittle saw it? He may well have done. But yes you have to give him the credit for sure.@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo
This fine man should definitely be named as the single most significant designer that contributed to the advancement of aviation as we know it today some almost 90 years ago. Perhaps even beyond that depending upon how long the idea of the jet engine was actually simmering in his genius brain housing group! Not only in aviation, but for other industrial applications where this tech is obviously beneficial on other machine. Chuck Yeager here in the States helped advance Mr. Whittle's idea even further in practice whilst being the guinea pig the further brainchild of the engineers lol. Of course, that's my opinion, anyway. Outstanding film!
“In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future” (2017).
early on in the whole mess with the air ministry the US offered him to back his research and support him in what he would need .but he wanted to stick it out with England I know at the end he was kicking himself for not jumping on the offer because it would have allowed him to build the engines he wanted instead of watching his ideas languish for years
I think that Whittle, for example, deserves a lot more attention. Most people glorify German engineering, but in this instance it was very much flawed. They completely overestimated their abilities, and made many mistakes. On the other side of the pond, Whittle, a broken, and ostracized genius, still managed to beat them to the finish line, despite being delayed for years, his work copied by the Germans, no support from the Air Ministry, sombroke that he could not afford the £4 to renew his patent. His achievements are just glorious, and he deserves all the attention he can get, so responding to comments is not really an effort, but rather an honor. By the way, I am not British, but I love objectivity. Soon we will publish Whittle’s never seen before raw interviews, and they are really interesting, on top of being a testament to his humbleness.
@@Dronescapes Many thanks for your feedback. I too love objectivity. In that respect, the behaviour of The Air Ministry and such like are no better now than they were then, despite the camouflage of altered names. I very much look forward to the imminent Whittle interviews, with thanks in advance. Suscribed!
There are big lessons here but unfortunately the people most needing to learn them, probably won't. Especially by those in power. It seems a folly of the human condition.... Get power, leave mind at the door. Stellar individuals like Whittle subject to the whims of much lessor men. Politics and big business certainly isn't a meritocracy.
Very notably, I think, although the centrifugal turbine was not the finest iteration of the Jet engine, It was well within the range of the then feasible metallurgy. The axial flow turbine, which is now universally used (and used by the Germans) was for this reason to have a vastly short life while in use.
Your statement is extremely limited. Germany had operational jet aircraft at the end of 1944, when their war was lost. The most notable aircraft, the Me 262, had an exceptional airframe, but the German turbojet was trash, despite 6 years of developmen, and the involvement of BMW, Heinkel, and Junkers. The few Me 262 (very few) that took to the air were useless, and perhaps good for a short lived propaganda. After the war the Soviets tried to to something with those utterly flawed German engines, but guess what? They trashed them as well and used none other than cloned Whittle turbojets (Rolls Royce Nene) for their feared MiG15. The French gave it a go as well, with results that did not make history. The Czech Air Force pretended to use them, but eventually switched to the Soviet cloned Whittle urbojet. You are also obviously ignoring the fact that Britain delayed R&D on the turbojet for several years because they didn’t consider them strategically vital.mas a matter of fact no Me 262 did cross the channel (they would not make it back). The axial turbojet became a viable engine in the mid 50s, but it was not a German one, and do not forget that Britain was working on both axial, and centrifugal engines all along (Metrovick, and of course Whittle). Griffith, the man that stopped Whittle for 5 years, and prevented public funding for his project in 1929, was interestingly the author of a seminal paper on axial compressors in 1926, and that is almost a decade before the German Von Ohain started working on his (on top of having full access to Whittle’s work). You see, what Whittle understood is that an axial turbojet would have taken forever to be reliable, so he presented an interim solution. The Germans made the fatal mistake that Whittle avoided, and that was part of his genius. The same cannot be said about his German counterpart(s). If Griffith supported Whittle in 1929, and if the government funded his even a fraction of the massive amount the Germans spent on those flawed engines, Britain would have had a proper turbojet by 1937/1938. Whittle spent a total of £200,000 of today’s money to have a working turbojet (before his German counterpart that had all the money and support he needed). It was private funding as well. He achieved success by spending the same money that today would buy you a basic Ferrari! Trying to not recognize his absolute genius, and the gross mistakes made by the Germans is simply silly.
@@Dronescapes Whittle had access to Maxime Guillaume's 1921 patent for an axial-flow turbine engine. So did the Germans. Even before the Germans invented the jet airplane, they abandoned the centrifugal flow engine and began work on the 262 as an axial-flow jet fighter. No one had the technical ability to build an axial-flow jet engine until Dr Franz invented it, the Jumo 004. Some list it as the BMW 003. WWII jet aviation is mainly German, no British innovations were made. Conspiracy theories aside, just go with the undeniable. The first jet was German, the first jet fighter was German, the first jet fighter used in combat was German, the first jet bomber was German, and the only jets to shoot down an enemy aircraft were both German. There were German centrifugal flow engines, there were British centrifugal engines. There were German axial-flow engines, there were no British axial-flow engines. It's not possible to revise history from that.
Elling’s design was not built, and Whittle ignored his work until much later in life, where after reviewing his work, he acknowledged that he did some interesting work. If you need to mention him, then there are really many other that would deserve to be named, possibly going back a couple of millennia (the Greeks).
I was referring to proper turbojets that power aircraft, and those are quite complex compared to a gas turbine. By the way, if you reference Wikipedia (which as we all know can be utterly unreliable), then you will also see that is was just a prototype, therefore not produced, unlike Whittle’s turbojet, for example.
@@Dronescapes Whittle was unable to build a functioning flight operational jet engine until 1941, installed in a test airframe the E.28/39. The He-280, a fully functional, pre production ready jet fighter that flew before Whittle's first working flight capable engine. The He-280's top speed of 508 mph, was fully 60 mph faster than the fastest wartime Meteor. That's how far ahead the Germans were. The British Metrovick problems with cracking, hot spots etc. were never solved, and development ended in 1944. This failure doomed the Meteor to mediocre performance of 450 mph, hence none were used in actual combat. Eric Brown described the 262 as a "quantum leap" and "the most formidable aircraft to evolve in WWII."
Nope. Whittle knew of axial flow compressors and knew their pros and cons. He knew the current metallurgy was not up to making them then. Thus, the German axial flow designs had only 25 hours of total lifetime (not overall but before being scrapped - see 1:43:56). The German engines were also highly temperamental and would explode if power was increased or decreased too rapidly. Early centrifugal compressor designs lasted decades in the Gloster Meteor. The ME 262 was a short-haul sprinter that had to have its targets go to it (otherwise, the engine would be gone in a few missions). Even the Soviet MIG 15, which first flew in 1947, used Whittle's design (stupidly, Rolls Royce sold them the engines that were then copied by the Soviets and used to shoot down US planes in Korea). Practical axial engines had to wait for the metallurgy to catch up. Whittle also invented the high bypass engine (mentioned later in the video), which was later adopted.
And to add to that, the author of a seminal paper on axial compressors in 1926, and the very person that rejected Whittle’s work in 1929 was none other than Mr. Griffith, who was working on axial solutions when Von Ohain was a teenager. His rejection was probably dictated by a mix of jealousy, and an obvious conflict of interest, as Whittle’s solution purposely ditched the axial compressor. Whittle was looking for a fast, easy to develop, and reliable interim solution, knowing perfectly well it would have taken decades to develop a proper axial turbojet. That is precisely the fatal mistake that the Germans made, as their axial turbojet was so flawed that even after the war nobody made anything out of it, with the Soviets going as far as trashing it in favor of Whittle’s turbojet for their formidable MiG15s. A proper axial turbojet finally surfaced in the mid 50s, but it was not a German, or German derived one, and Griffith had been part of that all along.
@@Dronescapes I think we are in violent agreement. My point on the MiG15 was that the Soviet's first jet used German engines, but they used a centrifugal Wittle-type engine to produce the MiG15. The UK produced a lot of great technology in the WW2 era but then blew it with how they managed it with politics and class distinction. In addition to the jet engine, they blew a huge lead in other technologies. Rather than building on Bletchley Park's computer work, they broke it up and hid it and the people (like Flowers, not to mention what happened to Turing), where the US went full steam after the war (they got some of this back with ARM). Similar to Whittle's jet engine to GE, they also ended up giving away microwave technology for radar which also led to microwave ovens.
@barracuda7018 I think you are reading an alternate history. Whittle was not fired, and the M52 project was cancelled without (to this day) a solid reason (the economic one is the most prominent). I don’t know where you are gathering your information, but it is not exactly based on facts.
@@barracuda7018 It's rather hard to respond to your condescension. Whitttle designed engines that would work reliably with the components possible in WW2. You seem to miss that the MiG15, built in 1947, went back to a copy of Whittle's design because they couldn't reliably make copies of the German engine. I could be wrong, but I think it was Sabre in 1948 that was the first US jet with an axial compressor. Also, Whittle patented the jet engine bypass in 1936 ("high" is a s relative term, but I should have said the bypass jet to make the nitpicker in you happy). Your whole argument about Whittle's post-war developments is erroneous and beside the point.
Well.... It can be discussed who was the father... Hans Von Ohain was the first one to make it work and fly... But be because Wittle was on the winning side of the was, real history was nicely altered...
Hans was still a student when Whittle filed his first jet related patent. However, he had better funding, and as a result, both actually had their first running engines at about the same time, and Ohain was slightly earlier in getting one on a working airplane. However, the UK caught up on developing a production jet fighter, so the end result was that the Gloster Meteor and HE-262 came out at very close to the same time. The reality is, both invented the engine simultaneously, in parallel.
Yes, that should be probably the truth, but Von Ohain has been strangely erased... Who wins the game? The second? No, the first, and Von Ohain made it first.... Sorry for Whittle, but he was not the first one, and that is documented. I am sure he did a great job, possibly better than Von Ohain, but in my world the one that makes it first, is the one that should pass to history and be in the books. But again, Whittle was on the winning side, and history we all know is made by the winning side
Von Ohain not only credited Whittle as the inventor, but also admitted to have had access to his work. That should close the argument. A SIMPLIFIED CHRONOLOGY OF THE TURBOJET: 1929 Britain: Frank Whittle tenders his turbojet proposal to the Air Ministry. The Ministry asked Dr Arnold Griffith at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) to make an assessment. Griffith advises his mentors that the proposal has little merit. It is rejected without further research and not placed on the Secret List. 1930 Britain: January. Whittle makes a successful application to patent his turbojet. (The Air Ministry are advised of this but again fail to apply secrecy.) 1931 Britain: April. The turbojet patent is published and thereafter becomes available to all interested parties from the National Stationary Office. Germany: copies of the British turbojet patent are purchased by the German Trade Commission in London and distributed amongst German aeronautical research establishments as well as aero-engine and airframe manufacturers. 1933 Sweden: Lysholm’s proposal for a turbojet at the Milo Company (date unconfirmed). 1935 Britain: Whittle is encouraged by his friends, Williams and Tinling, to join them in a private venture to develop the jet engine. Germany: Dr. Herbert Wagner initiates research at the Junkers Flugzeugwerke (JFA) to assess the gas turbine for shaft or jet power. (Focussing on the use of the axial compressor.) At the Aeronautical Research Division (AVA) at Göttingen, Dr. Hans von Ohain conceives a unique form of gas turbine and plans to apply this to aeronautics as a jet engine. 1936 Britain: Power Jets Ltd is formed. Turbojet development begins. Whittle patents his proposals for turbofan (high-bypass) turbojets and the use of reheat for thrust augmentation. Following (and as a result of) the establishment of Power Jets, the RAE is directed to re-activate aeronautical gas turbine research (dropped in 1930) as a means to develop shaft horsepower - focussing on the axial compressor. Germany: Secret development of the Wagner turbojet begins at JFA. Secret development of the Ohain turbojet begins at Ernst Heinkel AG (HAG). 1937 Britain: April. Using diesel oil, the Whittle Unit (WU) is run for the first time at Power Jets. Germany: September. Fuelled by Hydrogen, a sheet-metal experimental model of the Ohain unit is run for the first time at HAG. Herman Oestrich considering turbojet designs at Siemens (date unconfirmed) Russia: Lyul’ka’s proposal for a turbojet (date unconfirmed) 1938 Germany: March (unconfirmed). The Ohain engine is first run using liquid fuel. Unaware of the jet project at HAG (but probably aware of the JFA project) the Air Ministry (RLM) encourages engine manufacturers to develop the turbojet. (The axial compressor is specified.) Bramo, BMW & and (later) Daimler Benz took up turbojet research and development. 1939 Britain: June. The Air Ministry finally recognized the potential of the turbojet and began funding the development of Power Jets. The RAE abandons turbo-shaft research in favor of the turbojet. Germany: Under Anselm Franz, Junkers Motorenwerke (Jumo) assumes the development of the turbojet in place of JFA. The Wagner team (led by Max Müller) migrated to HAG to continue with their project there. August/November. First flight of a jet-powered airplane: The Heinkel He.178, powered by the Ohain unit achieves two six-minute flights - the first in August, the second in November. 1941 Britain: May. The Gloster E28/39, powered by the Whittle (W1) engine, begins a series of flight trials - accumulating 25 hours of bench tests followed by 10 hours of in-flight use before a check of the engine was undertaken. USA: Nathan Price’s proposal for a turbojet at Lockheed (date unconfirmed). Britain / USA: The British agreed to share their turbojet technology with the Americans. October. The W1 and design details of the W2 arrive in the USA. Germany: HAG abandons further development of the Ohain unit (date unconfirmed) 1942 USA: March. GE testing their AI turbojet. October. Flight testing of the twin-jet Bell XP-59A begins. 1943 Britain & Germany: flight-testing their first jet fighters (Gloster Meteor & Messerschmitt 262) Japan: turbojet proposal by Tanegashima and Nagano (date unconfirmed) 1944 Britain: January. Power Jets nationalised. Subsequent Government withdrawal of all support for Whittle’s axial front-fan development (LR1) and his centrifugal W2/700 engine with aft-fan and reheat. July. The Meteor jet fighter becomes operational. (Deployed against the V1 pulsejet-powered flying bomb.) Germany: October. The Me.262 became operational against Allied bomber forces. 1944/45 Britain / USA: Rolls-Royce shares further turbojet technology with the USA. (Both countries developing centrifugal and axial turbojets.) 1945 Europe / USSR / USA: appropriation of German turbojet technology following the end of the war in Europe. No significant advantages were discovered over existing British and American technology in this field. However, the French elected to adopt the BMW turbojet for further development and as a foundation for their aero-gas turbine industry. The USSR initially adopted the Jumo 004 for further development. 1947 Britain / USSR: Rolls-Royce sold their most advanced operational turbojets to the USSR. The technology migrates in turn to Eastern Europe and China. the Nene/Rolls Royce/Whittle-derived centrifugal turbojet engine powers the MiG 15 after the Soviets discarded the over-engineered, unreliable, and short-lived German engines. The MiG 15 proved to be a formidable opponent during the Korean War.
@joemoore4027 no, but there is always an ignorant side attempting to change it, especially these days. Read Heinkel’s diaries, and you will have a piece of real history. You can also read Von Ohain’s book, or listen to him admit that Whittle was not only the inventor, but he also had access to his work!
That is a weird way of thinking. Whittle’s aim was to build a reliable, and easy to develop turbojet. He presented his idea in 1929, and axial turbojets became reliable in the 50s. In between you have a World War…Whittle was acutely aware of axial variants, but being the brilliant young man he was, he wanted his country to have the perfect transitional engine, one that could have been vital at the time. He developed his invention with private fu ds, as he was completely ignored until he succeeded. On the other hand, the person that dismissed his project in 1929, Griffith, was working, among others, on an axial turbojet, which took decades to develop into a reliable solution. It’s a bit like saying that cell phone should have not existed because smart phone eventually became dominant, an odd way of thinking. Whittle purposely ditched the axial compressor for very good reasons. The Germans did exactly what you would have done, and ended up, at the end of the war, with the deployment of the Me 262, which had a tragically flawed axial turbojet, having put all their eggs in one basket, although it is interesting to note that the first flight in the He 178 was powered by Whittle’s invention, a centrifugal turbojet. German failed at having a proper axial turbojet for a miriad of reasons, and not only for lack of materials at the end of the war, as often mentioned as the sole reason. Their engine worked well for a short lived propaganda, but operationally it was useless, and it was also largely ignored after the war, including the Soviets that discarded all variants of the engine, and opted to use (reverse engineer) Whittle’s invention for their formidable MiG15 during the Korean War, initially fighting the Lockheed F-80:Shooting Star, also powered by a variant of Whittle’s engine (the key difference was swept wings). Axial powered fighters saw the light during that war, basically a war too late compared to WWII. If Whittle had been supported, in 1929, his engine would have been operational by the beginning of the conflict, certainly making a mark at the time, but that wasn’t to be. He was ignored until 1938, almost a decade too late.
@@Dronescapes - As history has proven, the Centrifugal Compressor was the limitation in achieving maximum efficiency. Hence, nobody uses it today except in Oil & Gas Compressors driven by an electric motor or Axial Gas Turbine. It had no forward path for development, even the latest By-pass Fan development, which its configuration could not support. In effect, Whittle failed, and the Jumi 004 became the development engine once the US got hold of them. All the Jumo 004 needed was high-temperature nickel alloys for the turbine blades. In the Smithsonian Steven F Hazy Center at the edge of Dulles Airport lies an ME-262 alongside the Enola Gay, the Aerospatiale Concord, and the Space Shuttle. There is no Bulbulus Gloster Meteor present. Even the Bulbous Bell Jet using the Whittle Engine was a failure. Even the F86 Sabre had the Axial Flow Compressor. It's a fitting tribute to this little plane. The Germans had the right ideas but never had the opportunity to develop them during Wartime. Today, German Engineering is always top-class; look at the BMW Mini and the Ineos Grenadier. They all use BMW Engines.
That is nonsense. The U.S., if anything, besides hailing Whittle as a genius and requesting both him and his engine to be shipped to the U.S. in 1941 to General Electric, and subsequently powering the first jet powered aircraft to fly on U.S. soil, the Bell XP-59, had also access to the work of Metrovick (axial). The Jumo engine (and other variants) were ignored by everyone, except the French. I already mentioned the Russians, who trashed them, the Czech Air Force, which assembled them during WW2, also discarded them, switching to the cloned Whittle engine, the British had both solutions, and could care less about the German flawed engines, and the French I mentioned assembled 120 Nazi engineers, but in order to make them into proper engines they had to radically modify it, spend years developing it, and also enter a joint venture with an American company. Again, developing a transitional engine was brilliant, not a mistake, and I repeat it: Whittle was very well aware that the future belonged to the axial turbojet, but his strategic aim was very important in the 30s. Unfortunately he was ignored. By the way, his engine also became Pratt & Whitney’s first turbojet, and also powered the first jet airliner. It is also still used in Helicopters. The reasoning why I mentioned the cell phone, also applies to the turbojet. It sounds like you are getting your history off of Wikipedia, rather than having a good understanding of what actually happened in 1929. By the way, when it comes to excellence, let me remind you that in the pinnacle of automotive, Formula 1, in order to win, Mercedes had to rely heavily on British minds, so does Red Bull, so did Ferrari, etc. The current F1 Leonardo da Vinci (Adrian Newey), is very much British as well. The last diesel engine revolution (common rail) used by most German engines, is very much Italian, and the list goes on and on. If you argue that at the end of WW2 Germany was extremely advanced in terms of aerodynamics,that would be very accurate, but those engine were fatally flawed, and not at all a novelty, as Britain had been working on them well before the Germans, they were just not so desperate to deploy them, and had other fish to fry, namely win the war with properly working hardware, rather than flawed prototypes.
@@Dronescapes The German ME-262 entered service, 1200 were build. ME-262 Max Speed 900km/hour output 1960lbf x 2 Gloster Max Speed 750km/hr - Output 1750lbf. The details bring credence to my main point and that is “16 years wasted on the Whittle Concept”
You have a twisted version of history. The Me 262 was a failure, from an engine perspective, and Britain was not trying to win speed records, they were focused on winning the war and destroying the Nazi regime. They could care less about a few Me 262s that had to trash their engines after a few hours, or that killed their pilots because of failures. you really do not get the point. Try not to focus on speed records, but on what mattered most back then, and try to figure out why almost nobody was interested in those flawed engines after the war. I gave you plenty of information for you to reflect, and hopefully study the subject, rather than speed records, which are completely irrelevant, as back then nobody cared about those trivial details. Priorities mattered most. Germany wasted time and precious resources over that useless aircraft, as it did not make a dent in the tides of war.
Well, it is about the invention of the turbojet, which was Whittle’s. As we all know Von Ohain had not only full access to Whittle’s work, which was not secreted by the British government, and therefore distributed in German Universities, but he probably also had access to Griffith’s seminal paper on axial compressors, penned in 1926, when Von Ohain was a teenager. Griffith, may I remind you, was also the sole judge of Whittle’s proposal in 1929, which also ditched the axial compressor cause it would have taken too long to develop into a proper turbojet (precisely the mistake that the Germans did, and of course that includes Von Ohain). Griffith’s biased and senseless decision, set back Whittle’s work by years, coupled with a complete lack of government support, and funding up until his success in April 1937, achieved with a fraction of the funding, and support that Von Ohain benefited from. Heinkel not only bankrolled him, but he was also a manufacturer, so he had the ideal environment. It is staggering to think that Whittle achieved what he did by spending a mere £200,000 in today’s money, the price of a low level supercar of today. Add to that another couple of details: That German engine was unreliable, over engineered, and short lived. By the time it entered service, 6 long years after Von Ohain’s first short test flight, it was still tragically flawed, despite a massive investment of time and money, and 3 German companies working on it (Heinkel, BMW, and Junkers). Those engines were so bad that despite the Soviets trying to make use of them after the war, they discarded them for good, and opted to use Whittle/RR Nene engines for their MiG15s, which as you know, were formidable adversaries in the Korean War. Of course, as Whittle knew, eventually the axial turbojet would take over, but he had, in 1929, and several years before Von Ohain, the perfect plan for a transitional turbojet, which also happened to be the first. Last but not least, it is also worth noting that in a desperate attempt, Von Ohain and Heinkel tried to copy Whittle’s solution altogether, logically realizing that their creation was useless at the time. That attempt also went nowhere. If Whittle had a fraction of Von Ohain’s support, Britain would have had a proper turbojet around 1934, and most certainly a jet aircraft by the beginning of the war, not a barely working one by the very end of 1944. Despite the Me 262 being an exceptional airframe, the few that flew were only good for a desperate propaganda. After the war nobody really cared about those German engines. The Czech Air Force gave it a go, but eventually used Whittle’s Soviet cloned engines, and the French gave it a go with a bunch of German engineers, but we also know how that went (realistically nowhere). Taking everything into consideration, Whittle was a titan compared to Von Ohain. He achieved the first flight with a patron that built aircraft and funneled as much money as needed, but his creation was subsequently a useless debacle. Britain had been working all along on both axial, and centrifugal turbojets,many both turned out to be properly working engines, and that despite the British government ordering a halt on R&D in the 30s. Perhaps Von Ohain’s first flight, and the existence of the barely operational Me 262 overstated their achievement.
@@Dronescapes No mention of the BMW motor, you just didn’t go into depth, and Whittle did not invent it, it was an Italian who first came up with the idea. You just have a bias, typical Brit
I am not British, and I am not sure what you are referring to when mentioning Italians. If you refer to Caproni, then you might need to update your facts. The inventor of the turbojet was, and still is Sir Frank Whittle. Perhaps you are unaware that Von Ohain, in his own book, credited Whittle as the inventor. To help you have a proper basic guideline, I am sharing a basic timeline for beginners with you. It can help you greatly to have a more exact knowledge about the invention of the turbojet… A SIMPLIFIED CHRONOLOGY OF THE TURBOJET: 1929 Britain: Frank Whittle tenders his turbojet proposal to the Air Ministry. The Ministry asked Dr Arnold Griffith at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) to make an assessment. Griffith advises his mentors that the proposal has little merit. It is rejected without further research and not placed on the Secret List. 1930 Britain: January. Whittle makes a successful application to patent his turbojet. (The Air Ministry are advised of this but again fail to apply secrecy.) 1931 Britain: April. The turbojet patent is published and thereafter becomes available to all interested parties from the National Stationary Office. Germany: copies of the British turbojet patent are purchased by the German Trade Commission in London and distributed amongst German aeronautical research establishments as well as aero-engine and airframe manufacturers. 1933 Sweden: Lysholm’s proposal for a turbojet at the Milo Company (date unconfirmed). 1935 Britain: Whittle is encouraged by his friends, Williams and Tinling, to join them in a private venture to develop the jet engine. Germany: Dr. Herbert Wagner initiates research at the Junkers Flugzeugwerke (JFA) to assess the gas turbine for shaft or jet power. (Focussing on the use of the axial compressor.) At the Aeronautical Research Division (AVA) at Göttingen, Dr. Hans von Ohain conceives a unique form of gas turbine and plans to apply this to aeronautics as a jet engine. 1936 Britain: Power Jets Ltd is formed. Turbojet development begins. Whittle patents his proposals for turbofan (high-bypass) turbojets and the use of reheat for thrust augmentation. Following (and as a result of) the establishment of Power Jets, the RAE is directed to re-activate aeronautical gas turbine research (dropped in 1930) as a means to develop shaft horsepower - focussing on the axial compressor. Germany: Secret development of the Wagner turbojet begins at JFA. Secret development of the Ohain turbojet begins at Ernst Heinkel AG (HAG). 1937 Britain: April. Using diesel oil, the Whittle Unit (WU) is run for the first time at Power Jets. Germany: September. Fuelled by Hydrogen, a sheet-metal experimental model of the Ohain unit is run for the first time at HAG. Herman Oestrich considering turbojet designs at Siemens (date unconfirmed) Russia: Lyul’ka’s proposal for a turbojet (date unconfirmed) 1938 Germany: March (unconfirmed). The Ohain engine is first run using liquid fuel. Unaware of the jet project at HAG (but probably aware of the JFA project) the Air Ministry (RLM) encourages engine manufacturers to develop the turbojet. (The axial compressor is specified.) Bramo, BMW & and (later) Daimler Benz took up turbojet research and development. 1939 Britain: June. The Air Ministry finally recognized the potential of the turbojet and began funding the development of Power Jets. The RAE abandons turbo-shaft research in favor of the turbojet. Germany: Under Anselm Franz, Junkers Motorenwerke (Jumo) assumes the development of the turbojet in place of JFA. The Wagner team (led by Max Müller) migrated to HAG to continue with their project there. August/November. First flight of a jet-powered airplane: The Heinkel He.178, powered by the Ohain unit achieves two six-minute flights - the first in August, the second in November. 1941 Britain: May. The Gloster E28/39, powered by the Whittle (W1) engine, begins a series of flight trials - accumulating 25 hours of bench tests followed by 10 hours of in-flight use before a check of the engine was undertaken. USA: Nathan Price’s proposal for a turbojet at Lockheed (date unconfirmed). Britain / USA: The British agreed to share their turbojet technology with the Americans. October. The W1 and design details of the W2 arrive in the USA. Germany: HAG abandons further development of the Ohain unit (date unconfirmed) 1942 USA: March. GE testing their AI turbojet. October. Flight testing of the twin-jet Bell XP-59A begins. 1943 Britain & Germany: flight-testing their first jet fighters (Gloster Meteor & Messerschmitt 262) Japan: turbojet proposal by Tanegashima and Nagano (date unconfirmed) 1944 Britain: January. Power Jets nationalised. Subsequent Government withdrawal of all support for Whittle’s axial front-fan development (LR1) and his centrifugal W2/700 engine with aft-fan and reheat. July. The Meteor jet fighter becomes operational. (Deployed against the V1 pulsejet-powered flying bomb.) Germany: October. The Me.262 became operational against Allied bomber forces. 1944/45 Britain / USA: Rolls-Royce shares further turbojet technology with the USA. (Both countries developing centrifugal and axial turbojets.) 1945 Europe / USSR / USA: appropriation of German turbojet technology following the end of the war in Europe. No significant advantages were discovered over existing British and American technology in this field. However, the French elected to adopt the BMW turbojet for further development and as a foundation for their aero-gas turbine industry. The USSR initially adopted the Jumo 004 for further development. 1947 Britain / USSR: Rolls-Royce sold their most advanced operational turbojets to the USSR. The technology migrates in turn to Eastern Europe and China. the Nene/Rolls Royce/Whittle-derived centrifugal turbojet engine powers the MiG 15 after the Soviets discarded the over-engineered, unreliable, and short-lived German engines. The MiG 15 proved to be a formidable opponent during the Korean War.
@@Dronescapes British shared Whittle's technology with the U.S., allowing General Electric (GE) to build jet engines for America's first jet fighter, the Bell XP-59. The British continued to develop new jet engines from Whittle's designs, with Rolls-Royce initiating work on the Nene engine during 1944. The company sold Nenes to the Soviets-a Soviet version of the engine, in fact, powered the MiG-15 jet fighter that later fought U.S. fighters and bombers during the Korean War. The 1945 surrender of Germany revealed substantial wartime discoveries and inventions. General Electric and Pratt & Whitney, another American engine-builder, added German lessons to those of Whittle and other British designers. Early jet engines, such as those of the Me 262, gulped fuel rapidly. Thus, an initial challenge was posed: to build an engine that could provide high thrust with less fuel consumption.
@@davidmarkwort9711 I am fully aware of the story, including the famous Hush Hush boys at G.E. We have the G.E. Doc on the Channel celebrating Whittle as well. Metrovick, or Griffith are also vital to the story, and also many other players.
When almost every politician in europe including the UK are traitors for germany no wonder. ( just look at all the BS in this video ) And they are ready to do it again.
Both centrifugal and axial are turbojets. As Von Ohain kindly conceded, Whittle was the inventor of the turbojet (April 1937). By the way, Britain had been working all along on both solutions, but it would take almost two decades to have a proper axial turbojet that could surpass the centrifugal one. Most importantly Whittle made a choice when he presented his projet years before Von Ohain, and he purposely ditched the axial compressor. His sole examiner, Mr. Griffith, wrote perhaps the most important paper on axial compressors in 1926, when Von Ohain was a kid. Mr. Griffith disgracefully rejected Whittle’s project leading to years, and years of delays. Also, the German turbojet was utterly flawed and practically useless. The proper axial turbojets, which surfaced in the mid 50s where not German. The German turbojets where so bad that the Russians, for the Korean was, fit Whittle’s engines in their formidable MiG15s, after attempting to make use of a few variants of the flawed German engines. Materials were only one of the many problems that doomed the German turbojet.
German axial turbojets were not useless. These were the first operational axial compressor jet engines. Flawed? Yes certainly, it was a new technology, so were Whittles radial compressor engines. And no the Soviets didn't dismiss the German engines, it just took its time to develop more reliable and powerful versions with the help of captured German engineers. For example the NK-12 turboprop (most powerful turboprop to date) was developed mainly by captured Jumo engineers. Many other Soviet axial compressor designs go back to German technology. Same applies to French engines. And there was a big impact on American designs out of German technology and research results as well.
@@Dronescapes The British were fully aware of Maxime Guillaume's 1921 patent for an axial-flow jet engine. So were the Germans. Dr Franz was the first to build an axial-flow jet engine, no one else had the technology. The British tried to build an axial-flow jet, the Metrovick, and failed, abandoning altogether on it in 1944. Whittle's centrifugal flow engine had such poor performance that no wartime Meteor ever exceeded 450 mph, hence none were ever used during WWII in actual combat. Dr Franz's invention, the axial-flow jet engine, powered the 262 to 560 mph, or as Eric Brown stated 568 mph. The 262 had over 500 air to air kills, while the Meteor had exactly zero. Postwar, the centrifugal flow engines were so simple that even the Russians could build them. It was not until 1947 that the British could actually build a working axial-flow jet engine. In 1948 the SENECA Atar ran, based on the BMW 018. Junkers designed axial-flow engines power the world's fastest turboprop, the TU-95, to this very day. No modern jet fighters use the centrifugal flow engine. All use the axial flow engine.
@@TheAneewAony Hello Sandyboy, why have you started yet another identity? Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to suppurt your dishinest claim that " The British were fully aware of Maxime Guillaume's 1921 patent for an axial-flow jet engine" anything at all? Here's what that famous German jet pioneer had to say about the Guillaume patent- "1) In 1908, Lorin patented a jet engine that was based on piston machinery (Fig. 4a). 2) In 1913, Lorin patented a jet engine based on ram compression in supersonic flight (Fig. 4b), the ramjet. 3) In 1921, M. Guillaume patented a jet engine based on turbomachinery; the intake air was compressed by an axial-flow compressor followed by a combustor and an axial-flow turbine driving the compressor (Fig. 4c). These patents clearly described the airbreathing jet principle but were not executed in practice. The reason lies mainly in the previously mentioned strong interdependency between aerovehicle and aeropropulsion systems. The jet engine has, in comparison with the propeller engine, a high exhaust speed (for example, 600 mph and more). In the early 1920s, the aerovehicle had a flight speed capability that could not exceed about 200 mph. Hence, at that time, the so-called propulsive efficiency of the jet engine was very low (about 30-40%) in comparison to the propeller, which could reach more than 80%. Thus, in the early 1920s, the jet engine was not compatible with the too-slow aerovehicle. Also, in the early 1920s, an excellent theoretical study about the possibilities of enjoying jet propulsion had been conducted by Buckingham of the Bureau of Standards under contract with NACA. The result of this study was clear--the jet engine could not be efficiently employed if the aerovehicle could not greatly exceed the flight speed of 200 mph; a flight speed beyond 400 mph seemed to be necessary. The consequences of the results of this study were that the aircraft engine industry and the scientific and engineering community had no interest in the various jet engine inventions. Thus the early jet engine concepts were forgotten for a long time. *They were unknown to Sir Frank Whittle, to me, and to the British and German patent offices* In 1939, however, the retired patent examiner Gohlke found out about the early jet patents and published them in a synoptic review. The Metrovick F2 as you know was developed into the F9 Sapphire engine that was also adopted by the Americans and built under license as the J65 with about 13,000 built. You'll remember no doubt that in the early years of their jet development the Americans were heavily dependent on British technology reflected in their license building and in the design of engines like Allison's J33, and as you know, there is a link with Allison to this day as the F130 Rolls Royce BR725 engines for the B52 refit will be built at the Allison plant which is now owned by Rolls Royce. The BR700 series as you know is a product of Rolls Royce's assistance program to help BMW get back into jet engine production but sadly BMW bottle it. Luckily Rolls Royce were able to continue to provide jobs for the local German workforce. As you know most western jet engines have their roots in British and American centrifugal and axial flow developments. The crappiness of Germany's wartime jet engines is well documented and the Germans have never produced a successful jet engine without foreign help. As you know, after the failure of his wartime engines Anselm Franz spent his career at Lycoming building engines based of Frank Whittle's 1930 patent.
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Sir Frank Whittle was a most remarkable man. A man who was ultimately very shabbily treated by the UK.
That's an understatement
Some years back I stayed at Brownsover Hall nr Rugby. It’s where Sir Frank did his development work. Some of the rooms have photos of the same room on the wall showing drawings and parts scattered everywhere with Sir Frank working there too
What a brilliant mind of a man,... yet the stubborn, stuffy, and small minded British governmental beaurocrats could not visualize the potential greatness of his endeavor. On the contrary, they made it almost impossible for him to succeed, and adding insult to injury, they stole his patent rights and gave his rights to their loyal financial supporters in the aviation industry. BUT his legacy as the first, will not be erased from history.
Should’ve sold it to the soviets or Germany
thank you @Dronescapes i really enjoyed this documentary! rest in peace sir eric winkle brown and sir frank whittle
Thanks for this, There has been a lot of myth and revision concerning the history and development of the jet engine and reading the comments show it continues.
As with most things there was existing science and ideas from all corners, BUT the very first proposal of a reaction engine being used as a prime mover for aircraft was made by Whittle. That is an absolute fact. His first patent for that idea was available in the libraries of Berlin before hostilities broke out. Whittle also patented the turbofan and re-heat (after burning) to cover every possible iteration. This was for his supersonic engine. Really, for once, a single mind was responsible for a great invention and I'd go further and suggest Whittle was a genius engineer who managed to solve countless problems in the construction of these engines which remain the state of the art.
Edit: The fact he managed it all practically in a shed makes it even more impressive.
A good point and notable that Von Ohain was also on to the idea as were probably a couple of unnamed others. It is notable that when a USA Colonel went to the UK to see the prototype, the local engineers said the engine was mathematically impossible (or so the story goes).
'An absolute fact'? No.The first patent for using a standalone gas turbine to power an aircraft (turbojet) was filed in 1921 by Frenchman Maxime Guillaume.
Yes, you are 100% correct.. I;d forgotten about him. It was to be fair, the most basic description and drawing. I'd stick with everything I said, except cite Guillaume with the shell of the idea. Whittle with his high altitude efficiency, feasibility studies, all the mathematics and working engine, reheat and turbofan, engineering every concept from first principles in a shed sort of make it an interesting historical note on the Frenchman's part but not really too significant in the end. I wonder if Whittle saw it? He may well have done. But yes you have to give him the credit for sure.@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo
@martinda7446 So you stick with that 'the very first proposal of a reaction engine being used as a prime mover for aircraft was made by Whittle'.
Read my reply again? What's your problem? I agreed with you . What do you want? A medal...@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo
Is that Raymond Baxter narrating? Very appropriate!
Mr. Raymond 'Annunciation' Baxter........Fabulous.
No.
Great video, but the image enhancement/upscale does more harm than good.
This fine man should definitely be named as the single most significant designer that contributed to the advancement of aviation as we know it today some almost 90 years ago. Perhaps even beyond that depending upon how long the idea of the jet engine was actually simmering in his genius brain housing group! Not only in aviation, but for other industrial applications where this tech is obviously beneficial on other machine. Chuck Yeager here in the States helped advance Mr. Whittle's idea even further in practice whilst being the guinea pig the further brainchild of the engineers lol. Of course, that's my opinion, anyway. Outstanding film!
“In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future” (2017).
1:47 the square windows they were talking about wasn't windows you'd look out of but rather the square cut-outs for the ADF antenna
early on in the whole mess with the air ministry the US offered him to back his research and support him in what he would need .but he wanted to stick it out with England I know at the end he was kicking himself for not jumping on the offer because it would have allowed him to build the engines he wanted instead of watching his ideas languish for years
That Eric Chubby Brown doesn't look right without his flying helmet.
“Yellow jocks are tough”
-Hulk Hogan 1987
Many thanks @DroneScapes for your replies in the comments section. Your patience is remarkable. Casting pearls before swine, unfortunately.
I think that Whittle, for example, deserves a lot more attention.
Most people glorify German engineering, but in this instance it was very much flawed.
They completely overestimated their abilities, and made many mistakes.
On the other side of the pond, Whittle, a broken, and ostracized genius, still managed to beat them to the finish line, despite being delayed for years, his work copied by the Germans, no support from the Air Ministry, sombroke that he could not afford the £4 to renew his patent.
His achievements are just glorious, and he deserves all the attention he can get, so responding to comments is not really an effort, but rather an honor.
By the way, I am not British, but I love objectivity.
Soon we will publish Whittle’s never seen before raw interviews, and they are really interesting, on top of being a testament to his humbleness.
@@Dronescapes Many thanks for your feedback. I too love objectivity. In that respect, the behaviour of The Air Ministry and such like are no better now than they were then, despite the camouflage of altered names.
I very much look forward to the imminent Whittle interviews, with thanks in advance. Suscribed!
There are big lessons here but unfortunately the people most needing to learn them, probably won't. Especially by those in power. It seems a folly of the human condition.... Get power, leave mind at the door. Stellar individuals like Whittle subject to the whims of much lessor men. Politics and big business certainly isn't a meritocracy.
Seems like they knew it worked early on. And tried what ever they could to keep Whittle off the idea as long as fhey could.
Great man.
Very notably, I think, although the centrifugal turbine was not the finest iteration of the Jet engine, It was well within the range of the then feasible metallurgy. The axial flow turbine, which is now universally used (and used by the Germans) was for this reason to have a vastly short life while in use.
*Turbo compound engine has entered the chat*
Sick of whittle Germans had them flying long before him
Your statement is extremely limited.
Germany had operational jet aircraft at the end of 1944, when their war was lost.
The most notable aircraft, the Me 262, had an exceptional airframe, but the German turbojet was trash, despite 6 years of developmen, and the involvement of BMW, Heinkel, and Junkers.
The few Me 262 (very few) that took to the air were useless, and perhaps good for a short lived propaganda.
After the war the Soviets tried to to something with those utterly flawed German engines, but guess what? They trashed them as well and used none other than cloned Whittle turbojets (Rolls Royce Nene) for their feared MiG15.
The French gave it a go as well, with results that did not make history.
The Czech Air Force pretended to use them, but eventually switched to the Soviet cloned Whittle urbojet.
You are also obviously ignoring the fact that Britain delayed R&D on the turbojet for several years because they didn’t consider them strategically vital.mas a matter of fact no Me 262 did cross the channel (they would not make it back).
The axial turbojet became a viable engine in the mid 50s, but it was not a German one, and do not forget that Britain was working on both axial, and centrifugal engines all along (Metrovick, and of course Whittle).
Griffith, the man that stopped Whittle for 5 years, and prevented public funding for his project in 1929, was interestingly the author of a seminal paper on axial compressors in 1926, and that is almost a decade before the German Von Ohain started working on his (on top of having full access to Whittle’s work).
You see, what Whittle understood is that an axial turbojet would have taken forever to be reliable, so he presented an interim solution. The Germans made the fatal mistake that Whittle avoided, and that was part of his genius. The same cannot be said about his German counterpart(s).
If Griffith supported Whittle in 1929, and if the government funded his even a fraction of the massive amount the Germans spent on those flawed engines, Britain would have had a proper turbojet by 1937/1938.
Whittle spent a total of £200,000 of today’s money to have a working turbojet (before his German counterpart that had all the money and support he needed). It was private funding as well.
He achieved success by spending the same money that today would buy you a basic Ferrari!
Trying to not recognize his absolute genius, and the gross mistakes made by the Germans is simply silly.
@@Dronescapes Whittle had access to Maxime Guillaume's 1921 patent for an axial-flow turbine engine. So did the Germans. Even before the Germans invented the jet airplane, they abandoned the centrifugal flow engine and began work on the 262 as an axial-flow jet fighter. No one had the technical ability to build an axial-flow jet engine until Dr Franz invented it, the Jumo 004. Some list it as the BMW 003. WWII jet aviation is mainly German, no British innovations were made. Conspiracy theories aside, just go with the undeniable. The first jet was German, the first jet fighter was German, the first jet fighter used in combat was German, the first jet bomber was German, and the only jets to shoot down an enemy aircraft were both German. There were German centrifugal flow engines, there were British centrifugal engines. There were German axial-flow engines, there were no British axial-flow engines. It's not possible to revise history from that.
Great documentary, too bad it ignores the work of people like Jens William Ægidius Elling (father of the gas turbine)
Elling’s design was not built, and Whittle ignored his work until much later in life, where after reviewing his work, he acknowledged that he did some interesting work.
If you need to mention him, then there are really many other that would deserve to be named, possibly going back a couple of millennia (the Greeks).
@@Dronescapes Elling built a working gas-turbine in 1903 that produced excess power
I was referring to proper turbojets that power aircraft, and those are quite complex compared to a gas turbine.
By the way, if you reference Wikipedia (which as we all know can be utterly unreliable), then you will also see that is was just a prototype, therefore not produced, unlike Whittle’s turbojet, for example.
@@Dronescapes Whittle was unable to build a functioning flight operational jet engine until 1941, installed in a test airframe the E.28/39. The He-280, a fully functional, pre production ready jet fighter that flew before Whittle's first working flight capable engine. The He-280's top speed of 508 mph, was fully 60 mph faster than the fastest wartime Meteor. That's how far ahead the Germans were. The British Metrovick problems with cracking, hot spots etc. were never solved, and development ended in 1944. This failure doomed the Meteor to mediocre performance of 450 mph, hence none were used in actual combat. Eric Brown described the 262 as a "quantum leap" and "the most formidable aircraft to evolve in WWII."
But if you build a smaller jet engine and put four turbos in it, it's more efficient and consumes less
they did that in 1920... and even today its Alien tech...
🫡
i thought it was the red barron who created the turbo jet
Maybe in a sci-fi fictional cartoon
One can only wonder what might have been, had the jet engine proceeded apace prior to 1939?
The Germans were on the better path with the axial flow design. You can only get so much from a centrifugal flow design.
Nope. Whittle knew of axial flow compressors and knew their pros and cons. He knew the current metallurgy was not up to making them then. Thus, the German axial flow designs had only 25 hours of total lifetime (not overall but before being scrapped - see 1:43:56). The German engines were also highly temperamental and would explode if power was increased or decreased too rapidly. Early centrifugal compressor designs lasted decades in the Gloster Meteor. The ME 262 was a short-haul sprinter that had to have its targets go to it (otherwise, the engine would be gone in a few missions). Even the Soviet MIG 15, which first flew in 1947, used Whittle's design (stupidly, Rolls Royce sold them the engines that were then copied by the Soviets and used to shoot down US planes in Korea). Practical axial engines had to wait for the metallurgy to catch up.
Whittle also invented the high bypass engine (mentioned later in the video), which was later adopted.
And to add to that, the author of a seminal paper on axial compressors in 1926, and the very person that rejected Whittle’s work in 1929 was none other than Mr. Griffith, who was working on axial solutions when Von Ohain was a teenager.
His rejection was probably dictated by a mix of jealousy, and an obvious conflict of interest, as Whittle’s solution purposely ditched the axial compressor. Whittle was looking for a fast, easy to develop, and reliable interim solution, knowing perfectly well it would have taken decades to develop a proper axial turbojet.
That is precisely the fatal mistake that the Germans made, as their axial turbojet was so flawed that even after the war nobody made anything out of it, with the Soviets going as far as trashing it in favor of Whittle’s turbojet for their formidable MiG15s.
A proper axial turbojet finally surfaced in the mid 50s, but it was not a German, or German derived one, and Griffith had been part of that all along.
@@Dronescapes I think we are in violent agreement. My point on the MiG15 was that the Soviet's first jet used German engines, but they used a centrifugal Wittle-type engine to produce the MiG15. The UK produced a lot of great technology in the WW2 era but then blew it with how they managed it with politics and class distinction. In addition to the jet engine, they blew a huge lead in other technologies. Rather than building on Bletchley Park's computer work, they broke it up and hid it and the people (like Flowers, not to mention what happened to Turing), where the US went full steam after the war (they got some of this back with ARM). Similar to Whittle's jet engine to GE, they also ended up giving away microwave technology for radar which also led to microwave ovens.
@barracuda7018 I think you are reading an alternate history.
Whittle was not fired, and the M52 project was cancelled without (to this day) a solid reason (the economic one is the most prominent).
I don’t know where you are gathering your information, but it is not exactly based on facts.
@@barracuda7018 It's rather hard to respond to your condescension. Whitttle designed engines that would work reliably with the components possible in WW2. You seem to miss that the MiG15, built in 1947, went back to a copy of Whittle's design because they couldn't reliably make copies of the German engine. I could be wrong, but I think it was Sabre in 1948 that was the first US jet with an axial compressor. Also, Whittle patented the jet engine bypass in 1936 ("high" is a s relative term, but I should have said the bypass jet to make the nitpicker in you happy).
Your whole argument about Whittle's post-war developments is erroneous and beside the point.
Editing is a bit off at times.
Well.... It can be discussed who was the father... Hans Von Ohain was the first one to make it work and fly... But be because Wittle was on the winning side of the was, real history was nicely altered...
Hans was still a student when Whittle filed his first jet related patent. However, he had better funding, and as a result, both actually had their first running engines at about the same time, and Ohain was slightly earlier in getting one on a working airplane. However, the UK caught up on developing a production jet fighter, so the end result was that the Gloster Meteor and HE-262 came out at very close to the same time.
The reality is, both invented the engine simultaneously, in parallel.
Yes, that should be probably the truth, but Von Ohain has been strangely erased... Who wins the game? The second? No, the first, and Von Ohain made it first.... Sorry for Whittle, but he was not the first one, and that is documented. I am sure he did a great job, possibly better than Von Ohain, but in my world the one that makes it first, is the one that should pass to history and be in the books. But again, Whittle was on the winning side, and history we all know is made by the winning side
Von Ohain not only credited Whittle as the inventor, but also admitted to have had access to his work.
That should close the argument.
A SIMPLIFIED CHRONOLOGY OF THE TURBOJET:
1929
Britain: Frank Whittle tenders his turbojet proposal to the Air Ministry.
The Ministry asked Dr Arnold Griffith at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) to make an assessment.
Griffith advises his mentors that the proposal has little merit. It is rejected without further research and not placed on the Secret List.
1930
Britain: January. Whittle makes a successful application to patent his turbojet. (The Air Ministry are advised of this but again fail to apply secrecy.)
1931
Britain: April. The turbojet patent is published and thereafter becomes available to all interested parties from the National Stationary Office.
Germany: copies of the British turbojet patent are purchased by the German Trade Commission in London and distributed amongst German aeronautical research establishments as well as aero-engine and airframe manufacturers.
1933
Sweden: Lysholm’s proposal for a turbojet at the Milo Company (date unconfirmed).
1935
Britain: Whittle is encouraged by his friends, Williams and Tinling, to join them in a private venture to develop the jet engine.
Germany: Dr. Herbert Wagner initiates research at the Junkers Flugzeugwerke (JFA) to assess the gas turbine for shaft or jet power. (Focussing on the use of the axial compressor.)
At the Aeronautical Research Division (AVA) at Göttingen, Dr. Hans von Ohain conceives a unique form of gas turbine and plans to apply this to aeronautics as a jet engine.
1936
Britain: Power Jets Ltd is formed. Turbojet development begins.
Whittle patents his proposals for turbofan (high-bypass) turbojets and the use of reheat for thrust augmentation.
Following (and as a result of) the establishment of Power Jets, the RAE is directed to re-activate aeronautical gas turbine research (dropped in 1930) as a means to develop shaft horsepower - focussing on the axial compressor.
Germany: Secret development of the Wagner turbojet begins at JFA.
Secret development of the Ohain turbojet begins at Ernst Heinkel AG (HAG).
1937
Britain: April. Using diesel oil, the Whittle Unit (WU) is run for the first time at Power Jets.
Germany: September. Fuelled by Hydrogen, a sheet-metal experimental model of the Ohain unit is run for the first time at HAG.
Herman Oestrich considering turbojet designs at Siemens (date unconfirmed)
Russia: Lyul’ka’s proposal for a turbojet (date unconfirmed)
1938
Germany: March (unconfirmed). The Ohain engine is first run using liquid fuel.
Unaware of the jet project at HAG (but probably aware of the JFA project) the Air Ministry (RLM) encourages engine manufacturers to develop the turbojet. (The axial compressor is specified.)
Bramo, BMW & and (later) Daimler Benz took up turbojet research and development.
1939
Britain: June. The Air Ministry finally recognized the potential of the turbojet and began funding the development of Power Jets. The RAE abandons turbo-shaft research in favor of the turbojet.
Germany: Under Anselm Franz, Junkers Motorenwerke (Jumo) assumes the development of the turbojet in place of JFA. The Wagner team (led by Max Müller) migrated to HAG to continue with their project there.
August/November. First flight of a jet-powered airplane: The Heinkel He.178, powered by the Ohain unit achieves two six-minute flights - the first in August, the second in November.
1941
Britain: May. The Gloster E28/39, powered by the Whittle (W1) engine, begins a series of flight trials - accumulating 25 hours of bench tests followed by 10 hours of in-flight use before a check of the engine was undertaken.
USA: Nathan Price’s proposal for a turbojet at Lockheed (date unconfirmed).
Britain / USA: The British agreed to share their turbojet technology with the Americans.
October. The W1 and design details of the W2 arrive in the USA.
Germany: HAG abandons further development of the Ohain unit (date unconfirmed)
1942
USA: March. GE testing their AI turbojet.
October. Flight testing of the twin-jet Bell XP-59A begins.
1943
Britain & Germany: flight-testing their first jet fighters (Gloster Meteor & Messerschmitt 262)
Japan: turbojet proposal by Tanegashima and Nagano (date unconfirmed)
1944
Britain: January. Power Jets nationalised. Subsequent Government withdrawal of all support for Whittle’s axial front-fan development (LR1) and his centrifugal W2/700 engine with aft-fan and reheat.
July. The Meteor jet fighter becomes operational. (Deployed against the V1 pulsejet-powered flying bomb.)
Germany: October. The Me.262 became operational against Allied bomber forces.
1944/45
Britain / USA: Rolls-Royce shares further turbojet technology with the USA. (Both countries developing centrifugal and axial turbojets.)
1945
Europe / USSR / USA: appropriation of German turbojet technology following the end of the war in Europe. No significant advantages were discovered over existing British and American technology in this field. However, the French elected to adopt the BMW turbojet for further development and as a foundation for their aero-gas turbine industry. The USSR initially adopted the Jumo 004 for further development.
1947
Britain / USSR: Rolls-Royce sold their most advanced operational turbojets to the USSR. The technology migrates in turn to Eastern Europe and China. the Nene/Rolls Royce/Whittle-derived centrifugal turbojet engine powers the MiG 15 after the Soviets discarded the over-engineered, unreliable, and short-lived German engines. The MiG 15 proved to be a formidable opponent during the Korean War.
Thank you. History is based on the winning side.
@joemoore4027 no, but there is always an ignorant side attempting to change it, especially these days.
Read Heinkel’s diaries, and you will have a piece of real history. You can also read Von Ohain’s book, or listen to him admit that Whittle was not only the inventor, but he also had access to his work!
Ten years of wasted effort were wasted using the centrifugal compressor engine when it was obvious that the axial compressor engine was the way to go.
That is a weird way of thinking. Whittle’s aim was to build a reliable, and easy to develop turbojet. He presented his idea in 1929, and axial turbojets became reliable in the 50s. In between you have a World War…Whittle was acutely aware of axial variants, but being the brilliant young man he was, he wanted his country to have the perfect transitional engine, one that could have been vital at the time. He developed his invention with private fu ds, as he was completely ignored until he succeeded.
On the other hand, the person that dismissed his project in 1929, Griffith, was working, among others, on an axial turbojet, which took decades to develop into a reliable solution.
It’s a bit like saying that cell phone should have not existed because smart phone eventually became dominant, an odd way of thinking.
Whittle purposely ditched the axial compressor for very good reasons.
The Germans did exactly what you would have done, and ended up, at the end of the war, with the deployment of the Me 262, which had a tragically flawed axial turbojet, having put all their eggs in one basket, although it is interesting to note that the first flight in the He 178 was powered by Whittle’s invention, a centrifugal turbojet.
German failed at having a proper axial turbojet for a miriad of reasons, and not only for lack of materials at the end of the war, as often mentioned as the sole reason.
Their engine worked well for a short lived propaganda, but operationally it was useless, and it was also largely ignored after the war, including the Soviets that discarded all variants of the engine, and opted to use (reverse engineer) Whittle’s invention for their formidable MiG15 during the Korean War, initially fighting the Lockheed F-80:Shooting Star, also powered by a variant of Whittle’s engine (the key difference was swept wings).
Axial powered fighters saw the light during that war, basically a war too late compared to WWII.
If Whittle had been supported, in 1929, his engine would have been operational by the beginning of the conflict, certainly making a mark at the time, but that wasn’t to be. He was ignored until 1938, almost a decade too late.
@@Dronescapes - As history has proven, the Centrifugal Compressor was the limitation in achieving maximum efficiency. Hence, nobody uses it today except in Oil & Gas Compressors driven by an electric motor or Axial Gas Turbine.
It had no forward path for development, even the latest By-pass Fan development, which its configuration could not support.
In effect, Whittle failed, and the Jumi 004 became the development engine once the US got hold of them.
All the Jumo 004 needed was high-temperature nickel alloys for the turbine blades.
In the Smithsonian Steven F Hazy Center at the edge of Dulles Airport lies an ME-262 alongside the Enola Gay, the Aerospatiale Concord, and the Space Shuttle.
There is no Bulbulus Gloster Meteor present. Even the Bulbous Bell Jet using the Whittle Engine was a failure. Even the F86 Sabre had the Axial Flow Compressor.
It's a fitting tribute to this little plane. The Germans had the right ideas but never had the opportunity to develop them during Wartime.
Today, German Engineering is always top-class; look at the BMW Mini and the Ineos Grenadier. They all use BMW Engines.
That is nonsense. The U.S., if anything, besides hailing Whittle as a genius and requesting both him and his engine to be shipped to the U.S. in 1941 to General Electric, and subsequently powering the first jet powered aircraft to fly on U.S. soil, the Bell XP-59, had also access to the work of Metrovick (axial).
The Jumo engine (and other variants) were ignored by everyone, except the French.
I already mentioned the Russians, who trashed them, the Czech Air Force, which assembled them during WW2, also discarded them, switching to the cloned Whittle engine, the British had both solutions, and could care less about the German flawed engines, and the French I mentioned assembled 120 Nazi engineers, but in order to make them into proper engines they had to radically modify it, spend years developing it, and also enter a joint venture with an American company.
Again, developing a transitional engine was brilliant, not a mistake, and I repeat it: Whittle was very well aware that the future belonged to the axial turbojet, but his strategic aim was very important in the 30s. Unfortunately he was ignored.
By the way, his engine also became Pratt & Whitney’s first turbojet, and also powered the first jet airliner.
It is also still used in Helicopters.
The reasoning why I mentioned the cell phone, also applies to the turbojet.
It sounds like you are getting your history off of Wikipedia, rather than having a good understanding of what actually happened in 1929.
By the way, when it comes to excellence, let me remind you that in the pinnacle of automotive, Formula 1, in order to win, Mercedes had to rely heavily on British minds, so does Red Bull, so did Ferrari, etc. The current F1 Leonardo da Vinci (Adrian Newey), is very much British as well.
The last diesel engine revolution (common rail) used by most German engines, is very much Italian, and the list goes on and on.
If you argue that at the end of WW2 Germany was extremely advanced in terms of aerodynamics,that would be very accurate, but those engine were fatally flawed, and not at all a novelty, as Britain had been working on them well before the Germans, they were just not so desperate to deploy them, and had other fish to fry, namely win the war with properly working hardware, rather than flawed prototypes.
@@Dronescapes The German ME-262 entered service, 1200 were build.
ME-262 Max Speed 900km/hour output 1960lbf x 2
Gloster Max Speed 750km/hr - Output 1750lbf.
The details bring credence to my main point and that is
“16 years wasted on the Whittle Concept”
You have a twisted version of history. The Me 262 was a failure, from an engine perspective, and Britain was not trying to win speed records, they were focused on winning the war and destroying the Nazi regime. They could care less about a few Me 262s that had to trash their engines after a few hours, or that killed their pilots because of failures.
you really do not get the point. Try not to focus on speed records, but on what mattered most back then, and try to figure out why almost nobody was interested in those flawed engines after the war.
I gave you plenty of information for you to reflect, and hopefully study the subject, rather than speed records, which are completely irrelevant, as back then nobody cared about those trivial details.
Priorities mattered most.
Germany wasted time and precious resources over that useless aircraft, as it did not make a dent in the tides of war.
Not one word lost about the German scientists and engineers, just scraping the Ohain surface, this was more about Whittle, all too onesided.
Well, it is about the invention of the turbojet, which was Whittle’s.
As we all know Von Ohain had not only full access to Whittle’s work, which was not secreted by the British government, and therefore distributed in German Universities, but he probably also had access to Griffith’s seminal paper on axial compressors, penned in 1926, when Von Ohain was a teenager.
Griffith, may I remind you, was also the sole judge of Whittle’s proposal in 1929, which also ditched the axial compressor cause it would have taken too long to develop into a proper turbojet (precisely the mistake that the Germans did, and of course that includes Von Ohain).
Griffith’s biased and senseless decision, set back Whittle’s work by years, coupled with a complete lack of government support, and funding up until his success in April 1937, achieved with a fraction of the funding, and support that Von Ohain benefited from.
Heinkel not only bankrolled him, but he was also a manufacturer, so he had the ideal environment.
It is staggering to think that Whittle achieved what he did by spending a mere £200,000 in today’s money, the price of a low level supercar of today.
Add to that another couple of details:
That German engine was unreliable, over engineered, and short lived.
By the time it entered service, 6 long years after Von Ohain’s first short test flight, it was still tragically flawed, despite a massive investment of time and money, and 3 German companies working on it (Heinkel, BMW, and Junkers).
Those engines were so bad that despite the Soviets trying to make use of them after the war, they discarded them for good, and opted to use Whittle/RR Nene engines for their MiG15s, which as you know, were formidable adversaries in the Korean War.
Of course, as Whittle knew, eventually the axial turbojet would take over, but he had, in 1929, and several years before Von Ohain, the perfect plan for a transitional turbojet, which also happened to be the first.
Last but not least, it is also worth noting that in a desperate attempt, Von Ohain and Heinkel tried to copy Whittle’s solution altogether, logically realizing that their creation was useless at the time.
That attempt also went nowhere.
If Whittle had a fraction of Von Ohain’s support, Britain would have had a proper turbojet around 1934, and most certainly a jet aircraft by the beginning of the war, not a barely working one by the very end of 1944.
Despite the Me 262 being an exceptional airframe, the few that flew were only good for a desperate propaganda.
After the war nobody really cared about those German engines. The Czech Air Force gave it a go, but eventually used Whittle’s Soviet cloned engines, and the French gave it a go with a bunch of German engineers, but we also know how that went (realistically nowhere).
Taking everything into consideration, Whittle was a titan compared to Von Ohain.
He achieved the first flight with a patron that built aircraft and funneled as much money as needed, but his creation was subsequently a useless debacle.
Britain had been working all along on both axial, and centrifugal turbojets,many both turned out to be properly working engines, and that despite the British government ordering a halt on R&D in the 30s.
Perhaps Von Ohain’s first flight, and the existence of the barely operational Me 262 overstated their achievement.
@@Dronescapes No mention of the BMW motor, you just didn’t go into depth, and Whittle did not invent it, it was an Italian who first came up with the idea. You just have a bias, typical Brit
I am not British, and I am not sure what you are referring to when mentioning Italians.
If you refer to Caproni, then you might need to update your facts.
The inventor of the turbojet was, and still is Sir Frank Whittle.
Perhaps you are unaware that Von Ohain, in his own book, credited Whittle as the inventor.
To help you have a proper basic guideline, I am sharing a basic timeline for beginners with you.
It can help you greatly to have a more exact knowledge about the invention of the turbojet…
A SIMPLIFIED CHRONOLOGY OF THE TURBOJET:
1929
Britain: Frank Whittle tenders his turbojet proposal to the Air Ministry.
The Ministry asked Dr Arnold Griffith at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) to make an assessment.
Griffith advises his mentors that the proposal has little merit. It is rejected without further research and not placed on the Secret List.
1930
Britain: January. Whittle makes a successful application to patent his turbojet. (The Air Ministry are advised of this but again fail to apply secrecy.)
1931
Britain: April. The turbojet patent is published and thereafter becomes available to all interested parties from the National Stationary Office.
Germany: copies of the British turbojet patent are purchased by the German Trade Commission in London and distributed amongst German aeronautical research establishments as well as aero-engine and airframe manufacturers.
1933
Sweden: Lysholm’s proposal for a turbojet at the Milo Company (date unconfirmed).
1935
Britain: Whittle is encouraged by his friends, Williams and Tinling, to join them in a private venture to develop the jet engine.
Germany: Dr. Herbert Wagner initiates research at the Junkers Flugzeugwerke (JFA) to assess the gas turbine for shaft or jet power. (Focussing on the use of the axial compressor.)
At the Aeronautical Research Division (AVA) at Göttingen, Dr. Hans von Ohain conceives a unique form of gas turbine and plans to apply this to aeronautics as a jet engine.
1936
Britain: Power Jets Ltd is formed. Turbojet development begins.
Whittle patents his proposals for turbofan (high-bypass) turbojets and the use of reheat for thrust augmentation.
Following (and as a result of) the establishment of Power Jets, the RAE is directed to re-activate aeronautical gas turbine research (dropped in 1930) as a means to develop shaft horsepower - focussing on the axial compressor.
Germany: Secret development of the Wagner turbojet begins at JFA.
Secret development of the Ohain turbojet begins at Ernst Heinkel AG (HAG).
1937
Britain: April. Using diesel oil, the Whittle Unit (WU) is run for the first time at Power Jets.
Germany: September. Fuelled by Hydrogen, a sheet-metal experimental model of the Ohain unit is run for the first time at HAG.
Herman Oestrich considering turbojet designs at Siemens (date unconfirmed)
Russia: Lyul’ka’s proposal for a turbojet (date unconfirmed)
1938
Germany: March (unconfirmed). The Ohain engine is first run using liquid fuel.
Unaware of the jet project at HAG (but probably aware of the JFA project) the Air Ministry (RLM) encourages engine manufacturers to develop the turbojet. (The axial compressor is specified.)
Bramo, BMW & and (later) Daimler Benz took up turbojet research and development.
1939
Britain: June. The Air Ministry finally recognized the potential of the turbojet and began funding the development of Power Jets. The RAE abandons turbo-shaft research in favor of the turbojet.
Germany: Under Anselm Franz, Junkers Motorenwerke (Jumo) assumes the development of the turbojet in place of JFA. The Wagner team (led by Max Müller) migrated to HAG to continue with their project there.
August/November. First flight of a jet-powered airplane: The Heinkel He.178, powered by the Ohain unit achieves two six-minute flights - the first in August, the second in November.
1941
Britain: May. The Gloster E28/39, powered by the Whittle (W1) engine, begins a series of flight trials - accumulating 25 hours of bench tests followed by 10 hours of in-flight use before a check of the engine was undertaken.
USA: Nathan Price’s proposal for a turbojet at Lockheed (date unconfirmed).
Britain / USA: The British agreed to share their turbojet technology with the Americans.
October. The W1 and design details of the W2 arrive in the USA.
Germany: HAG abandons further development of the Ohain unit (date unconfirmed)
1942
USA: March. GE testing their AI turbojet.
October. Flight testing of the twin-jet Bell XP-59A begins.
1943
Britain & Germany: flight-testing their first jet fighters (Gloster Meteor & Messerschmitt 262)
Japan: turbojet proposal by Tanegashima and Nagano (date unconfirmed)
1944
Britain: January. Power Jets nationalised. Subsequent Government withdrawal of all support for Whittle’s axial front-fan development (LR1) and his centrifugal W2/700 engine with aft-fan and reheat.
July. The Meteor jet fighter becomes operational. (Deployed against the V1 pulsejet-powered flying bomb.)
Germany: October. The Me.262 became operational against Allied bomber forces.
1944/45
Britain / USA: Rolls-Royce shares further turbojet technology with the USA. (Both countries developing centrifugal and axial turbojets.)
1945
Europe / USSR / USA: appropriation of German turbojet technology following the end of the war in Europe. No significant advantages were discovered over existing British and American technology in this field. However, the French elected to adopt the BMW turbojet for further development and as a foundation for their aero-gas turbine industry. The USSR initially adopted the Jumo 004 for further development.
1947
Britain / USSR: Rolls-Royce sold their most advanced operational turbojets to the USSR. The technology migrates in turn to Eastern Europe and China. the Nene/Rolls Royce/Whittle-derived centrifugal turbojet engine powers the MiG 15 after the Soviets discarded the over-engineered, unreliable, and short-lived German engines. The MiG 15 proved to be a formidable opponent during the Korean War.
@@Dronescapes British shared Whittle's technology with the U.S., allowing General Electric (GE) to build jet engines for America's first jet fighter, the Bell XP-59. The British continued to develop new jet engines from Whittle's designs, with Rolls-Royce initiating work on the Nene engine during 1944. The company sold Nenes to the Soviets-a Soviet version of the engine, in fact, powered the MiG-15 jet fighter that later fought U.S. fighters and bombers during the Korean War.
The 1945 surrender of Germany revealed substantial wartime discoveries and inventions. General Electric and Pratt & Whitney, another American engine-builder, added German lessons to those of Whittle and other British designers. Early jet engines, such as those of the Me 262, gulped fuel rapidly. Thus, an initial challenge was posed: to build an engine that could provide high thrust with less fuel consumption.
@@davidmarkwort9711 I am fully aware of the story, including the famous Hush Hush boys at G.E.
We have the G.E. Doc on the Channel celebrating Whittle as well.
Metrovick, or Griffith are also vital to the story, and also many other players.
😮 from absolutely broken 1923 Weimar Republic to 1938 Nazi Germany ready to settle a score... 15 years 😐
Sour grapes, much. But for Hitler being insane, you would be speaking German........
When almost every politician in europe including the UK are traitors for germany no wonder. ( just look at all the BS in this video )
And they are ready to do it again.
showing 2 replies ... they mustaf bin valid / ish .. otherwise why would they not show... 3 replies ... let's go algo...
I think the Germans were running them earlier, perhaps this was the first centrifugal flow turbojet.
Both centrifugal and axial are turbojets.
As Von Ohain kindly conceded, Whittle was the inventor of the turbojet (April 1937).
By the way, Britain had been working all along on both solutions, but it would take almost two decades to have a proper axial turbojet that could surpass the centrifugal one.
Most importantly Whittle made a choice when he presented his projet years before Von Ohain, and he purposely ditched the axial compressor.
His sole examiner, Mr. Griffith, wrote perhaps the most important paper on axial compressors in 1926, when Von Ohain was a kid.
Mr. Griffith disgracefully rejected Whittle’s project leading to years, and years of delays.
Also, the German turbojet was utterly flawed and practically useless.
The proper axial turbojets, which surfaced in the mid 50s where not German.
The German turbojets where so bad that the Russians, for the Korean was, fit Whittle’s engines in their formidable MiG15s, after attempting to make use of a few variants of the flawed German engines.
Materials were only one of the many problems that doomed the German turbojet.
German axial turbojets were not useless. These were the first operational axial compressor jet engines. Flawed? Yes certainly, it was a new technology, so were Whittles radial compressor engines. And no the Soviets didn't dismiss the German engines, it just took its time to develop more reliable and powerful versions with the help of captured German engineers. For example the NK-12 turboprop (most powerful turboprop to date) was developed mainly by captured Jumo engineers. Many other Soviet axial compressor designs go back to German technology. Same applies to French engines. And there was a big impact on American designs out of German technology and research results as well.
@@wanderschlosser1857 Great comment! Thanks
@@Dronescapes The British were fully aware of Maxime Guillaume's 1921 patent for an axial-flow jet engine. So were the Germans. Dr Franz was the first to build an axial-flow jet engine, no one else had the technology. The British tried to build an axial-flow jet, the Metrovick, and failed, abandoning altogether on it in 1944. Whittle's centrifugal flow engine had such poor performance that no wartime Meteor ever exceeded 450 mph, hence none were ever used during WWII in actual combat. Dr Franz's invention, the axial-flow jet engine, powered the 262 to 560 mph, or as Eric Brown stated 568 mph. The 262 had over 500 air to air kills, while the Meteor had exactly zero. Postwar, the centrifugal flow engines were so simple that even the Russians could build them. It was not until 1947 that the British could actually build a working axial-flow jet engine. In 1948 the SENECA Atar ran, based on the BMW 018. Junkers designed axial-flow engines power the world's fastest turboprop, the TU-95, to this very day. No modern jet fighters use the centrifugal flow engine. All use the axial flow engine.
@@TheAneewAony Hello Sandyboy, why have you started yet another identity?
Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to suppurt your dishinest claim that " The British were fully aware of Maxime Guillaume's 1921 patent for an axial-flow jet engine"
anything at all?
Here's what that famous German jet pioneer had to say about the Guillaume patent-
"1) In 1908, Lorin patented a jet engine that was based on piston machinery
(Fig. 4a).
2) In 1913, Lorin patented a jet engine based on ram compression in supersonic
flight (Fig. 4b), the ramjet.
3) In 1921, M. Guillaume patented a jet engine based on turbomachinery; the
intake air was compressed by an axial-flow compressor followed by a combustor
and an axial-flow turbine driving the compressor (Fig. 4c).
These patents clearly described the airbreathing jet principle but were not
executed in practice. The reason lies mainly in the previously mentioned
strong interdependency between aerovehicle and aeropropulsion systems. The
jet engine has, in comparison with the propeller engine, a high exhaust speed
(for example, 600 mph and more). In the early 1920s, the aerovehicle had a
flight speed capability that could not exceed about 200 mph. Hence, at that
time, the so-called propulsive efficiency of the jet engine was very low (about
30-40%) in comparison to the propeller, which could reach more than 80%.
Thus, in the early 1920s, the jet engine was not compatible with the too-slow
aerovehicle. Also, in the early 1920s, an excellent theoretical study about the possibilities
of enjoying jet propulsion had been conducted by Buckingham of the
Bureau of Standards under contract with NACA. The result of this study was
clear--the jet engine could not be efficiently employed if the aerovehicle could
not greatly exceed the flight speed of 200 mph; a flight speed beyond 400 mph
seemed to be necessary. The consequences of the results of this study were
that the aircraft engine industry and the scientific and engineering community
had no interest in the various jet engine inventions. Thus the early jet engine
concepts were forgotten for a long time. *They were unknown to Sir Frank
Whittle, to me, and to the British and German patent offices* In 1939,
however, the retired patent examiner Gohlke found out about the early jet
patents and published them in a synoptic review.
The Metrovick F2 as you know was developed into the F9 Sapphire engine that was also adopted by the Americans and built under license as the J65 with about 13,000 built.
You'll remember no doubt that in the early years of their jet development the Americans were heavily dependent on British technology reflected in their license building and in the design of engines like Allison's J33, and as you know, there is a link with Allison to this day as the F130 Rolls Royce BR725 engines for the B52 refit will be built at the Allison plant which is now owned by Rolls Royce.
The BR700 series as you know is a product of Rolls Royce's assistance program to help BMW get back into jet engine production but sadly BMW bottle it. Luckily Rolls Royce were able to continue to provide jobs for the local German workforce.
As you know most western jet engines have their roots in British and American centrifugal and axial flow developments.
The crappiness of Germany's wartime jet engines is well documented and the Germans have never produced a successful jet engine without foreign help.
As you know, after the failure of his wartime engines Anselm Franz spent his career at Lycoming building engines based of Frank Whittle's 1930 patent.
Wtf is up with this video quality? Picasso vision?
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