How To Understand The Importance of Cutting Tool Quality
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- A drill is a drill, right? Wrong. Very wrong. When it comes to cutting tools, a bargain set consisting of dozens of drills seems like a great option; but you don't know how accurate those drills are going to be compared to, say, a higher quality drill like a Morse. If you don't check those bargain bits before chucking 'em up, you never know what size hole you'll end up with. In this video, we put the bargain drill to the test by comparing a hole drilled with it to a hole drilled with a high quality drill, as well as a hole brought to size with a reamer. The results will surprise you.
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I've even had some quality sharpening issues with quality drills like Morse ,and Cleveland but in very rare occurence.
Always best to mic the dia and give the point a good visual before using.
Morse closed it's factory in the 1990's Today Morse is a company that bought the name and has the tools manufactured to their specs by tool manufacturers throughout the country.
When Morse was in it's hayday my dad was an expert tool grinder who eventually ran all the finish grind departments and after that ran his owncutting tool company where he taught me the trade in the 60's and 70's . Union Butterfield is also an offshoot of Morse Cutting Tools. They also todau have their tools manufactured by smaller companies to their specs .
The story about morse having a small drill sent back to them with a smaller drill drilled throgh the shank is true. My dad had it sitting in his office draw for many years.
Drill bits are as standard made approximately 0.03 mm undersize. This allows a close to correct size hole after the flutes expand outwards during the machining process.
Great test.
I was taught by an engineer to measure a drill and check its point before drilling a hole. I used a German made drill bit HSS 1/16 " to drill 260 holes before it needed re-sharping.
He was a smart engineer ;) This is very good practice. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for watching!
thanks for the video. I discovered the exact same thing recently. I bought a cheep set of drills for my home shop just so I had every size. every single drill point was off center and the relief angle on some of the drills was actually backwards. after re sharpening they at least drilled a correct size hole. I also discovered is some materials the quality/ hardness of the steel was worse. of a few peices of material I was trying to drill the cheap drill wouldn't even begin to drill it sharp or not. I still.use the cheap drills for unimportant stuff but will probably never bother to buy a cheap set again.
There's a lot of truth to this. One of the drills in that 115 piece set we showed actually came split. As stated, they're perfectly fine for the hand drills used in shipping and maintenance, but for precision spring for the better quality product.
Real good demo which goes to show two things, one, you get what you pay for and, two, for best results always pilot drill first.
Right you are, thanks for the comment.
Great video, I am a novice self taught aka " lessons from mistakes ". I have just purchased a 1981 rockwell 20, I am in the process of giving it some TLC. can you please make a video for us newbies on drill bit type, use, considerations and tips. I do mostly welding and metal Fab. Watching your center finder drill tip has helped alot.
I'm glad we could help! We've made a note of it, thanks for the suggestion.
I do remember when my lecture demonstrated to us how to grind the point off centre to make oversize holes.
Great technique but I have never tried it myself. I always but the highest grade of SKF Dormer drills which I never lend out.
I do buy cheap drills for none critical operations.
At my last job, I had to drill and tap about 175 holes (1/2-13) in a 1" thick steel plate....used 7/16" Precision Twist Drill....never had to sharpen it....and when finished, it still had pretty good looking tip on it....and used some Moly-D cutting oil....OSG tap did equally well.....
Sounds about right. Consequently, we went back and took a look at the pilot drill we used in this video, and you can physically see the wear on it after three holes. Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching!
...Yes, that was the plain Black Oxide drill...nothing fancy....but the PTD 115 piece set retails for $600+.....I believe I got it on discount/sale for around $275-300.....10-12 years ago...
Thanks for this video. I learn something useful from every one of them.
We're glad to help, thanks for watching!
My teachers tell me a drilled hole isn't straight and it isn't round. We don't drill pilot holes anymore, because someone tested it and it didn't make a difference. We have 3-flute 'core drills' which are supposed to make a hole straight and round, and the reamer is for getting a good surface finish. The way I see it, is drills are for removing metal; a roughing process. I really appreciate the tip about pecking with the reamer, and will try that as soon as I get a chance.
Greetings from Finland!
Greetings from the USA! Thanks for sharing this info, and thanks again for watching!
Hope you're doing well Uncle Don, haven't seen a new video in a long time. God bless! And hi to Glenn.
All is well, thank you!
Wow guys/gals, thanks for all of your great comments!
Great video Don! Like the new sound quality.
Thank you, we appreciate it!
Great info, thanks for sharing!
Don't forget the importance of holding the drill. For accurate holes using a collet instead of a chuck will improve positioning, straightness and dimension. In this vidoe it's easy to see that the center drill wobbles a bit.
There are drills that produces holes to ISO 7 right of the box (expensive and made out of carbide).
You're very correct. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for watching!
Thanks for the demonstration, Don. Very useful information.
John
You're welcome, thanks for watching.
I would always rather have a drill bit drill a few thou under and ream up to size if needed.
Id say a good 60% of the holes I make end up having a reamer passed through them
Thank you for a realy superb series of vidoes, Please keep em coming.
I have found the sweet spot between price and quality drills to be Triumph drills. They seem to be straight and have good points, and are pretty close to nominal size. The Trumph Silver & Demming seem to be as good as any drill I have ever used. Dunno is MSC will pick them up when Enco goes away at the end of the month or not.
Thanks for sharing, the community and I appreciate hearing your first hand experience.
Bravo! A complex topic demystified in 11 minutes. This is a gold level video. All those hand sharpening videos are now just trash.
Good stuff! Please more
Glad you enjoyed it, we'll keep 'em coming.
Don, why do you spot drill with a centre drill, rather than a proper spot drill? The hole angle of a center drill is typically 60 degrees. When spotting, you want an angle that is larger than the twist drill’s angle if possible. The narrower the spot angle, the more near the outside diameter of the twist drill first contact will be. If the twist drill’s flutes aren’t perfectly sharpened, one will contact the spot hole before the other and the drill will try to deflect, this could be adding to the problems of the cheap drills. Over time this could also notch the tip of the drill where it contacts, meaning you have to sharpen it more often, or ruin the good factory grind of expensive drills. Going for a split point bit could also help, eliminating the need for a pilot hole.
Great video as always, I always thoroughly enjoy watching you. Keep the videos coming.
P.S. Does holding the reamer in the drill chuck make any difference to it's accuracy because of run out. or does the reamer sort of bend to suit?
Thanks.
You're not wrong, it's just a different way of doing it. As for the reamer; it could, but in this case it didn't. Once the reamer gets started it sets into place and will not bend, which gave us a straight and precise hole. This also is the case because the reamer was running true, the machine was in good working order, and it was set up properly.
Just curious, what kind of a drill sharpener do you use?
Thanks for doing these videos, they are very informative.
Darex SP2500. We'll be making a short video demonstrating it very soon. Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you find our content of value. Thanks again for watching!
thanks Don good video
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
Can you explain why the pilot drill vs going to size please? Drills are capable and designed to cut to the center. Why not let it do so? Thanks for sharing.
most drills are long and the points are not as small as the center drill. center drills are shorter and tend not to wonder as much as a drill might.
@@SuburbanToolInc
Thanks. I understand that. Sorry, what I meant was step drilling. Starting with a smaller drill before going to size.
GREAT VIDEO !!!!
Thanks! Glad to hear you enjoyed it.
Good video Don, you can learn something new every day. Some drills are inexpensive (low cost) some drills are cheap (low quality) and some are both. When one of these cheap drills snaps off in a hole I ask my self where's the savings. The better quality drills do a better job but as you have shown it would also be wise to invest in a good sharpening system.
Spot on thinking. When a cheap (low quality) tool breaks off in a part, you're out the price of both. Lose/lose in these cases.
Oddly enough after watching your last video on drills i had to drill and ream some bearings for a model steam engine , thankfully enough after watching your video it reminded me To check the drill i was going to use and did a test run on some scrap - it drilled a hole bigger than the reamer !
It should have been .015 under !
I ended up regrinding by hand and ended up with a hole that was about .005 oversize but still usable for reaming .
I wonder if the bent drill is a result of it stress relieving during grinding ?
Those gauge pin sets look nice ! I would like to see them being made along with gauge blocks being lapped , surely there has to be some other viewers of your channel that would like to see more how its made videos ?
Ha! Seem exactly like our experience with the cheap 1/4" drill last week. We're still baffled it drill so oversize right out of the box. Glad to hear you were able to clean it up. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment.
Those cheep drills are such a pain. OK for fabrication work, but nothing precision. I have purchased packs of 10 and found everyone in the envelope ground wrong and yes even crooked.
Thanks for all the work on these videos! What does your "professional" drill sharpener look like?
also interested
That was a great vidoe! Don, I would like to know as well. Unless you want to show us how to obtain a professional result without the expense of buying an expensive professional drill sharpener.
We use a Darex SP2500 in our shop, we're going to make a quick video demonstrating it in the very near future. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment!
What kind of professional drill sharpener do you use? You should show it off in a video, and proper usage. Thanks for the great videos!
We use a Darex SP 2500. We'll make a quick video demonstrating it in the very near future.
From Scotland, just wanted you to know how much I appreciate your videos, Don ... great to hear measurements expressed in terms of inch decimals rather than in terms of miilimeters (as they do over here !). Millimeters are great for fitting kitchens, but when it comes to precision engineering ... give me decimal inches every time. Long may the USA resist metrication.
Hello from the USA, we appreciate you watching! Thanks again
Them's fighting words.
Fabulous
when chasing with a ream they say 1/64, i always used shaky machines so if it had to be dead nuts, i give'r a 1/32, i found a ream teaches itself. counter intuitive but i found it works, but i ain't no machinist.
The exact same is true for any cutting tool. To simplify it a bit, quality materials, care and accuracy in manufacturing, quality and accuracy of the manufacturing equipment, capital costs, and properly trained personnel cost X amount. Despite the all to common perceptions, low labor costs really don't have much effect on the final price of any good cutting tool no matter what country there made in. The low cost tools have to have one or more of those items reduced to match the price. Good industrial quality American, European or even Japanese cutting tools are at the ragged edge of what I can afford for something that's a hobby. But I can no longer afford cheap cutting tools and having to replace them with better. And all HSS and carbide is not created equal. There's dozens if not hundreds of reasons why those higher quality cutting tools cost what they do. For what your cheap set is meant for Don I'd agree there good enough. For the required results while machining you can't go as cheap as possible with any cutting tool. I've tried and failed more than enough to now know it's impossible.
So what is the brand of that set of cheap drill bits? What are a few great brands of drill bits?
On the topic of quality drills, we use Morse in our shop and like them. Cleveland has been mentioned in the comments, they also make a great cutting tool. If you pull out a Production Tool Supply or MSC catalog and find something in the same price range as either of those, you should be safe. As for the cheap drills, we'd prefer not to name a specific brand because many of the cheap sets are from privately labeled brands, all of which are rebranded from a handful of offshore manufacturers.
I have a set of good usa drills. They are more $$ but so much more of a pleasure to use. I tell my friends not to try to save money on drill bits. It's just not worth it. But I don't drill concrete with them!
Taking care of quality tools is just as important as purchasing a quality tool in the first place. Thanks for the comment!
Morse - I'll have to get me some. I use Cleveland - are they of same quality Don?
Yes they are, I like Cleveland as well. Thanks for the question!
You state that the inexpensive .250 drill after being sharpened correctly, drilled .001 undersized (Appx 7:20 into the video). You proved this by showing that a .249 pin will go into the hole but that the .250 pin will not. One of the first things I learned in machine shop school is that a .250 pin will NOT go into a .250 hole. So I think that inexpensive drill made a hole even closer to size than you think. Maybe even perfect. Love your videos but I just had to point this out.
thank you
Sort of what i said at the last video BTW what tool did you use to regrind the drill
Right you are. We use a Darex SP2500 to sharpen our drills in the shop. Thanks for the comment.
I suppose they are poorly hand sharpened, a machine would have to be a total piece of junk to give such random sizes. My mentor taught me to hand sharpen, free style on the Darrex we tossed out the silly holders, I’m so thankful for these skills.
What's your opinion on Drill Hog U.S.A. drill bits?
Can't say I've used them before, wouldn't be a fair opinion.
Who knew drills were so complex. I always noticed size differences in cheap drills over my preferred drill set. Are cheap drill undersized to
compensate for bad grinding? I noticed 2 thousands undersized as a norm.
Who knows? I can't give an honest answer to that, but it seems to be the joke going around the comments section. Thanks for the comment!
Funny that this came out right after my trip down drill sharpening lane video. ruclips.net/video/3unjoKkgQto/видео.html Maybe its drill week in you tube land. :-) Good drills are certainly critical to good holes. I was surprised by how much those cheap drill blanks were off on size. For an even more interesting test take that block to the comparator and locate the holes from both sides and see if you not only drilled oversize but your bores walked off as well.
I've always considered drill bits "roughing" tools for critical holes.
This is very true, but, it's good to know that your tool is the size it advertises. Also, cheaper tools will wear out quicker.
That Morse drill sure wobbled a bit.
It should be noted that the Morse drill that wobbled was the 15/64" we used as the pilot drill for the reamer, which we pulled out of a miscellaneous tool bin. It has been there for a while, as it has (obviously) seen it's fair share of wear and tear in the shop.
It should also be noted that the brand new 1/4" Morse ran dead true.
Would you show, name, and demonstrate you sharpener?
The sharpener is a Darex SP2500. We'll make a quick video demonstrating it in the near future.
Any reason you choose a center drill as opposed to a spot drill? I thought center drills are meant for tailstocks on a lathe.
Main reason I ask, I work on all exotic materials for the most part. Using a center drill on 6al4v titanium I have seen many guys absolutely ruin them if not snap the pilot point off completely.
I use a 140° spot drill for my 135° bits. Seems to work flawless for me.
Center drills can be used anywhere, but I do agree, with certain materials there are better methods. In the case that you have mentioned, the harder material calls for the larger angle on the tip. Thanks for the comment!
You need to buy better drill bits Don. :) I really like C-L and Guhring the best. Thanks
maybe they make those chinese drills undersize to compensate for the wandering of the bad points
While I don't think it's intentional, you never know!
when you buy your drill set they will tell you what mateiral they're made of, grade of HSS, like cobalt content.
What machine is used to sharpen drills that is affordable ? Is hand sharpening only for an expert ?
Affordable is a very relative term, so I'd have to do a little research before giving an honest answer because I really don't have one off of the top of my head. We use a Darex SP2500 in our shop, which has a pretty high price point. Hand sharping isn't only for experts, it just takes practice! Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comments.
What I'd liked to have seen you do is take two drills, a cheap one, and an expensive one, and put the same grind on them both off your own machine, and then seeing if there's any great difference in the hole size they drill. Of course that won't provide any indication of longevity etc, but would be an interesting test just the same. Are we better off buying cheap drills and expensive drill grinders ;)
BTW your reamer has runout too, that chuck is Fritz.
Thanks for the comment. We could, but the fact of the matter is that Morse drill cut a hole exactly the size marked on it. On the concept of buying cheap drills/expensive grinders, keep in mind that two of the four drills we pulled out of that new set of drills were bent. For precision, you're better off spending a little extra on the better cutting tool and saving the struggle.
I thought you are not supposed to back the reamer out of hole until it's done?
I believe that the clogging of the chips does damage. If the chips stay in the flutes they can rub against the bore and cause the bore to go oversize.
Why are you running the center drill backwards?
As I stated in the video, the center drill was not running backwards. It is an illusion created by the camera.
SuburbanTool Inc
I was only joking man. Gotcha.
sometimes I wish I would have gotten into mechanical engineering instead of dentistry. This stuff is fascinating
I have that same "cheapo" drill set, same drill chart and all. They make up for being undersized by putting the point off center and bending. :)
Forgive my ignorance, but would a Drill Doctor help the cheap drills or what else must be done to give them a professional point?
Yes, it would certainly put a better point on a drill than the point that comes on it. At least on the drills that came in our set. Thanks for watching, and for the comment.
thank you very much I'm not buying no more cheap tools😆😆😆
You're welcome, glad we could help.
I wish I could afford a good sharpener
I bought cheap drills and I regret them. I stand by Dormer all the way
Good choice. Like I said, there's a place for cheap drills i.e. putting together wood crates, mounting something on a wall, stuff like that. When it comes to precision machining, you're going to need something better. Thanks again for watching!
All that really shows is you should expect to get what you pay for. I'd put money on you getting the same or worse results on home grown cheap tat too. If you'd spent $ for $ on two different brands - which if you ignore where they appear to be made, is all you are really talking about.
In reality most are made in china by the same factory under contract for a "known home brand", ie packed and labelled as made in the good old USofA. if you ditch the transparent attempts to discredit "import" goods you could be forgiven expecting the same quality - pay 50% less, wherever it was made and no one with any degree of intelligence would expect the same quality or tolerances as goods costing top dollar...