Rich, do you think you and Freiburger could sweet talk GM into "loaning" you guys (😉😂) a new 1000-hp 632 for dyno testing, mods, boost, etc? For a magazine article, of course, AND your channel, AND Engine Masters. David, do it!
@@tonymorse7178 I know Dave's first love is Mopars, but he's built a ton of both SB and BB Chevies. Don't forget, he owns the megabuck F-Bomb Camaro, the Crusher Camaro, a 56 Chevy, races a BB Camaro at Bonneville, and has and 800hp BBC in his Model A. He also has Fords and Jeeps.
@@musclebone7875 so do I, honestly I love them all. Chevy, Ford, Mopar, Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile Cadillac, Studebaker.. AMC.. and all their big and small engines
On the low compression big block, what would be the outcome if you swapped those heads for a smaller chamber equal flow head and went with more cam? Would it have pushed it into the 900s or higher?
Hey Rich, could you do a comparison of a low compression big block and a high compression big block using mostly the exact parts and pieces and then add nitrous. Like to see that 540cu in as a demonstration. Thanks
nitrous is nitrous, whatever the jet size is the hp you will add regardless of the base HP number (to a point). Compression will do your standard 4% per point of compression. As long as you aren't octane limited you should be good making more power with the high compression. Ask this question at the live session at 7 and you might get a more detailed answer.
Check cylinder walls for thickness, you could be anywhere between a .030 overbore to upwards of .100 overbore. My Gen5 roller block is at a safe .040 overbore. The more you stress it via boost/nitrous the more wall thickness is needed.
@@jondahl3173 just a tow pig man. Plan on throwing a 540 in it in the end. Just wanted to refresh the stock vortec with a stroker kit. I was thinking a 505 kit
Can you test PROGRESSIVE nitrous controllers that ramp up the nitrous and fuel gradually between, say, 3500 and 6500? (I'm just full of great questions today 😂)
That is where the 8.1 shines is how many algorithms you can mix and match with the shutter wheel, a good tuner can write these into your tune to activate and modify the tables to the hard parameters and allow “ 1 then 0 , if zero then parameter table 2 for those little moments that aren’t available under the standard algorithm for manual function, written as a separate set of “if” or “if not menu readouts and allow it to show during data logging. The tuner can then set new parameters for the controller.
Actually traction and making fuel eliminates a good number of factors that can bugger up a lot of conditions. I don’t like a lack of those things very much. At least you have an idea where to tune
More fuel with larger TB will cool intake charge more as it vaporizes. Lower temp intake charge seams correct as more fuel is vaporized. My data for this conclusion is for carbed C/SA car, 1/4 mile. Intake charge air temp near head at launch 110 degrees and 67 degrees at finish line. Racepak data logger.
Hello Sir, been wondering if you have ever done an apples to oranges test with a small block and big block chevy 427 same spec cam, compression ratio etc. Thanks and Happy Easter.
Just out of curiosity, do you have any recollection of what the old Whipple 454 vortec kit consisted of, blower wise? Since those are "in your dreams" attainable at this point, I was wondering about creating my own with maybe an Eaton M112, or going the other way with a (possibly remote mounted) turbo. This is a hauler/towing truck, so nothing crazy! Love your videos, comparisons and commentary!! Especially the Live events you do!
What is your opinion on Rod ratios? I am building a supercharged BBC 540 drag motor I might go with a 6.70 rods. Either going to run 10.0 or 10.5 to 1 comp ratio. Curious if the wrist pain would be too far into the piston?
@@robertwetherington3372 yes they make different lengths for different piston/ rod ratio... you can look up rods at summit racing for the 454 and check out the variations of rod lengths.. ;)
Check out JRGuelde videos at my friend's shop. BBC Procharger. 1 video show's the charge hose blowing off moving the dyno. Another shows the results. With a bigger carb it would have made more.
@@richardholdener1727 I don’t think it would take a huge amount to get 900 hp out of the 8.1 . And an S480 with a T6 volute and a 5 inch exhaust back to two 3 inch pipes side be side to the rear wheel passenger side 3x6 outlet would likely make 900+ with a good intercooler. That would be a real sleeper in 78-81 Malibu, beige with a 3000 stall speed. You’re right 9.5 -9.7 cr would be better on 91, if you were just getting home 87 would get you home. A single with the right cam should have a rising boost curve. Likely no more than 11.5-12 lbs boost.
What about an S480T6? 9.6:1 cr, 3 inch crossover twin Wastegate single S480 with a T6 volute and a 5 inch exhaust back and down to twin 3 inch pipes back to in front of the righ
On the nitrous 496, what is the reasoning behind the 114 LSA? Is that just for vacuum for power brakes, and a smoother idle, or does nitrous work better with that?
That 496 was done in a earlier video as a versatile power adder build he ran it NA, NOS and supercharged that 114 LSA cam was a turbo cam he said also worked good for any power adder but also did well NA.
Hey Richard. Ya. Yesterday’s live show I told you I get loads from blueprint engines from Kearney Nebraska. It’s true. I said they were 483. Maybe a couple around that displacement but the majority of them are 383’s. The manifest had a lot of them with I think was 850 or 950 brawlers. I hope now I don’t get my truck stolen. 😳😊. Anyway. I wanted to clear that up a little bit.
Big block question from someone who rarely sees them. Are there any good fuel injection manifolds for these engines? Seems like these combos, as they go higher and higher, are increasingly using carbed setups. Was just wondering if that was out of necessity or convenience.
I noticed the power started to dip at 6500 with the tunnel ram BB compared to the single plane intake. Was that due to the runner length of the tunnel ram?
I'd love to see you build a BB Mopar stroker, between 496 and 520 or so (440 Source has kits), Trick Flow 270 heads, tunnel ram, big stinkin' roller, all that. I'd bet that could reach 800 hp NA as well. Get Dulcich to work on that! 😉
@@applebitefool 2hp/ci NA (look at us with our secret language, lol) is pretty impressive for any engine, but can you make it streetable? On pump gas? 🤔
@@jondahl3173 Actually, it was supposedy about crankshaft harmonics, but on any engine that's below about 700 hp and 7000 rpm, I don't think that's an issue. I learned from David Vizard that as far as adjacent cylinders robbing each other's charge, the 4/7 swap merely moves the problem from the left rear cylinders to the right front. And I would guess that the exhaust heat issue would too.
How about the 8.1 with 10:1 cr 246/ 252 @.050 1.8 rockers with .700/.700 net with 110 LSA and a S480 T6 with a 3 inch crossover. 2 Wastegates electronic controller. A 5 in exhaust from the turbo back and down with a collector to allow a pair of 3 inch pipes side by side to a 3 x 6 oval tip out in front of the rear passenger side rear wheel. Prediction 935 hp 815 ft lbs and very drivable on pump 91 octane. 1.885 per cI with a rising boost curve moderate back pressure and with a solid transmission that you can shift down to 3200 and let the show begin to 6400 with forged rods and 4032 alloy forged pistons with ring gap.Stay on the back side of the throttle and wave at the constabulary as you purr by. lol
@@richardholdener1727 How about 9.28.:1? Would you need a larger hot side wheel ! I think there is 96 and a 1.33 a/r . It you were drag racing I would think that you would want it on the two step at 3 lbs boost at 3000 to allow 6.5 when the leverage hits and the front end jumps and be at 9-10 by 60 ft, I would think it would be a fair rate of spool to get clear of the intercooler and fuel and timing regulators for the big show from the 1/8th on without much traction trouble with the front wheels in the air…kind of a 60 ft leapfrog and hard pulling from there on.
Rich, do you think you and Freiburger could sweet talk GM into "loaning" you guys (😉😂) a new 1000-hp 632 for dyno testing, mods, boost, etc? For a magazine article, of course, AND your channel, AND Engine Masters. David, do it!
they might have that kind of pull-me...not so much!
Freiburg is a Mopar died-in-the-wool guy. GM knows it, so they probably are not gonna give him a $30,000 GM premier engine package.....
@@tonymorse7178 I know Dave's first love is Mopars, but he's built a ton of both SB and BB Chevies. Don't forget, he owns the megabuck F-Bomb Camaro, the Crusher Camaro, a 56 Chevy, races a BB Camaro at Bonneville, and has and 800hp BBC in his Model A. He also has Fords and Jeeps.
This was one of my favorite vids you've ever done.
We also learned that the 8.1 vortec has a big torque advantage with low boosts compared to all 3 tested
You leave no data out. Thank you for your efforts
First comment again! 😁 Can we get back to turbo gen1 sbc stuff please 🤣
We love big block chevy powerrrr💪
@@musclebone7875 so do I, honestly I love them all. Chevy, Ford, Mopar, Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile Cadillac, Studebaker.. AMC.. and all their big and small engines
@@b.c4066 nothing wrong with that
@@b.c4066 Me too. I have a soft spot for FEs myself. They made a fine engine for every purpose.
On the low compression big block, what would be the outcome if you swapped those heads for a smaller chamber equal flow head and went with more cam? Would it have pushed it into the 900s or higher?
Keep going Richard untill 2000hp!
ZZ454 plus two GT-45s! Dial in 800hp…
be better with 1 S475
Hey Rich, could you do a comparison of a low compression big block and a high compression big block using mostly the exact parts and pieces and then add nitrous. Like to see that 540cu in as a demonstration. Thanks
nitrous is nitrous, whatever the jet size is the hp you will add regardless of the base HP number (to a point). Compression will do your standard 4% per point of compression. As long as you aren't octane limited you should be good making more power with the high compression. Ask this question at the live session at 7 and you might get a more detailed answer.
Kelly is correct-nitrous will add the same amount to each base combo-the higher compression will start and end with more power
Would you happen to know what's the max safe overbore on a gen 6 BBC 454?
Check cylinder walls for thickness, you could be anywhere between a .030 overbore to upwards of .100 overbore. My Gen5 roller block is at a safe .040 overbore. The more you stress it via boost/nitrous the more wall thickness is needed.
@@jondahl3173 just a tow pig man. Plan on throwing a 540 in it in the end. Just wanted to refresh the stock vortec with a stroker kit. I was thinking a 505 kit
Two expensive parts. A L.s motor can do more horsepower very cheap parts old-school so expensive
Has anyone made a 496 using a 4.375"crank and 4.25bore
that is not a great choice-the longer stroke crank causes windage issues
@@richardholdener1727 even if it's low rpm use intended?
Hey, do you run both rings with .028- .03 or are the rings different?
both the same
@@richardholdener1727 Got it, thanks!
Can you test PROGRESSIVE nitrous controllers that ramp up the nitrous and fuel gradually between, say, 3500 and 6500? (I'm just full of great questions today 😂)
That is where the 8.1 shines is how many algorithms you can mix and match with the shutter wheel, a good tuner can write these into your tune to activate and modify the tables to the hard parameters and allow “ 1 then 0 , if zero then parameter table 2 for those little moments that aren’t available under the standard algorithm for manual function, written as a separate set of “if” or “if not menu readouts and allow it to show during data logging. The tuner can then set new parameters for the controller.
Actually traction and making fuel eliminates a good number of factors that can bugger up a lot of conditions. I don’t like a lack of those things very much. At least you have an idea where to tune
More fuel with larger TB will cool intake charge more as it vaporizes. Lower temp intake charge seams correct as more fuel is vaporized. My data for this conclusion is for carbed C/SA car, 1/4 mile. Intake charge air temp near head at launch 110 degrees and 67 degrees at finish line. Racepak data logger.
A cost per 800hp motor would be interesting also
Mmmm- Big block. 🤩😋
Please do this series or a similar one with a BBF!!
That 496 would be a blast on the street, NA or spray. 👍🏻
Thinking about low compression What about a low comp peanut 454 with something like a 11-242-3 or similar valve springs and no other mods
Hello Sir, been wondering if you have ever done an apples to oranges test with a small block and big block chevy 427 same spec cam, compression ratio etc. Thanks and Happy Easter.
no sir
Just out of curiosity, do you have any recollection of what the old Whipple 454 vortec kit consisted of, blower wise? Since those are "in your dreams" attainable at this point, I was wondering about creating my own with maybe an Eaton M112, or going the other way with a (possibly remote mounted) turbo. This is a hauler/towing truck, so nothing crazy!
Love your videos, comparisons and commentary!! Especially the Live events you do!
Harrop is in the process of building a kit with the 2640 blower for the BBC right now.
I HAVE SEEN THEM-AND A KENNE BELL UNIT TOO
What is your opinion on Rod ratios? I am building a supercharged BBC 540 drag motor I might go with a 6.70 rods. Either going to run 10.0 or 10.5 to 1 comp ratio. Curious if the wrist pain would be too far into the piston?
I don't feel rod ratio changes much-so I would opt for the right piston design
Never heard of 6.7. 6.135 stock 6.385 is what most 540 have .250 longer even at half inch long 6.635
@@robertwetherington3372 yes they make different lengths for different piston/ rod ratio... you can look up rods at summit racing for the 454 and check out the variations of rod lengths.. ;)
Drats not frist
Check out JRGuelde videos at my friend's shop. BBC Procharger. 1 video show's the charge hose blowing off moving the dyno. Another shows the results. With a bigger carb it would have made more.
Am I missing something? What happened to the gen7 8.1 from the first video?
it doesn't make 800 hp yet
@@richardholdener1727 I don’t think it would take a huge amount to get 900 hp out of the 8.1 . And an S480 with a T6 volute and a 5 inch exhaust back to two 3 inch pipes side be side to the rear wheel passenger side 3x6 outlet would likely make 900+ with a good intercooler. That would be a real sleeper in 78-81 Malibu, beige with a 3000 stall speed. You’re right 9.5 -9.7 cr would be better on 91, if you were just getting home 87 would get you home. A single with the right cam should have a rising boost curve. Likely no more than 11.5-12 lbs boost.
What about an S480T6? 9.6:1 cr, 3 inch crossover twin Wastegate single S480 with a T6 volute and a 5 inch exhaust back and down to twin 3 inch pipes back to in front of the righ
Test the NA engine with 10:1 , 11:1 , 12:1 compression ratio.
3-4% CHANGE IN POWER PER POINT
That ZZ454 would be bad to the bone on the street! It would be a handful on that pro charger though.
Hey Rich, what bout a torquer series
I finally got my 6.0
On the nitrous 496, what is the reasoning behind the 114 LSA? Is that just for vacuum for power brakes, and a smoother idle, or does nitrous work better with that?
Nitrous just adds to what is there
@@richardholdener1727 Ok. So why did you choose a 114 LSA rather than 110, 108, etc?
That 496 was done in a earlier video as a versatile power adder build he ran it NA, NOS and supercharged that 114 LSA cam was a turbo cam he said also worked good for any power adder but also did well NA.
@@justinfee819 Ah, I see. Thanks.
Richard, do you ever look at the cranking compression?
YES-i DID ON SOME OF THE CAM TESTS
Hey Richard. Ya. Yesterday’s live show I told you I get loads from blueprint engines from Kearney Nebraska. It’s true. I said they were 483. Maybe a couple around that displacement but the majority of them are 383’s. The manifest had a lot of them with I think was 850 or 950 brawlers. I hope now I don’t get my truck stolen. 😳😊. Anyway. I wanted to clear that up a little bit.
why o to a week ass shit like that and totally shit small time big block I understand why but let's get it dawg
Big block question from someone who rarely sees them. Are there any good fuel injection manifolds for these engines? Seems like these combos, as they go higher and higher, are increasingly using carbed setups. Was just wondering if that was out of necessity or convenience.
the Dart tunnel ram has provisions for injectors-we just didn't utilize them-also single planes withe efi are avail
This is good 😎
1.5hp/ci on 8.75:1 CR with no power adder...........
That is not too shabby really.
I noticed the power started to dip at 6500 with the tunnel ram BB compared to the single plane intake. Was that due to the runner length of the tunnel ram?
where was the tunnel ram compared to the single plane?
@@richardholdener1727 The 540 in the 700 HP video.
I'd love to see you build a BB Mopar stroker, between 496 and 520 or so (440 Source has kits), Trick Flow 270 heads, tunnel ram, big stinkin' roller, all that. I'd bet that could reach 800 hp NA as well. Get Dulcich to work on that! 😉
Im making 700 hp on a somewhat mild 505 Mopar so 800 is pretty straightforward nowadays. Hell shoot for 950-1000hp 😄
@@applebitefool Dyno verified? Cool, what's the combo?
@@applebitefool 2hp/ci NA (look at us with our secret language, lol) is pretty impressive for any engine, but can you make it streetable? On pump gas? 🤔
Rich, have you tested the 4/7 swap on hi power big blocks like these? Any change?
no power changes
I think it's more about moving heat in the motor away from adjoining cylinders... correct me if I'm wrong.
@@jondahl3173 Actually, it was supposedy about crankshaft harmonics, but on any engine that's below about 700 hp and 7000 rpm, I don't think that's an issue. I learned from David Vizard that as far as adjacent cylinders robbing each other's charge, the 4/7 swap merely moves the problem from the left rear cylinders to the right front. And I would guess that the exhaust heat issue would too.
How much for that big block??
BIG motor Richard
Hmm, I'll take a 540 with an 8-71 AND a little nitrous. And maybe meth injection as an intercooler! Cuz ya can't have the nitrous on all the time.
How about the 8.1 with 10:1 cr 246/ 252 @.050 1.8 rockers with .700/.700 net with 110 LSA and a S480 T6 with a 3 inch crossover. 2 Wastegates electronic controller. A 5 in exhaust from the turbo back and down with a collector to allow a pair of 3 inch pipes side by side to a 3 x 6 oval tip out in front of the rear passenger side rear wheel. Prediction 935 hp 815 ft lbs and very drivable on pump 91 octane. 1.885 per cI with a rising boost curve moderate back pressure and with a solid transmission that you can shift down to 3200 and let the show begin to 6400 with forged rods and 4032 alloy forged pistons with ring gap.Stay on the back side of the throttle and wave at the constabulary as you purr by. lol
I think you need more turbo.
for 91 you would be better off with lower compression
@@richardholdener1727 How about 9.28.:1? Would you need a larger hot side wheel ! I think there is 96 and a 1.33 a/r . It you were drag racing I would think that you would want it on the two step at 3 lbs boost at 3000 to allow 6.5 when the leverage hits and the front end jumps and be at 9-10 by 60 ft, I would think it would be a fair rate of spool to get clear of the intercooler and fuel and timing regulators for the big show from the 1/8th on without much traction trouble with the front wheels in the air…kind of a 60 ft leapfrog and hard pulling from there on.
1
Personally I blame squirrels
Ok Woody 😂