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The Problem with High Cyanuric Acid (CYA) with Chemistry Expert Bob Lowry
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- One of the most common water balancing issues is having high Cyanuric Acid (CYA) in your pool. Cyanuric Acid often referred to as Conditioner or Stabilizer is added to the pool in order to slow the chlorine burn-off caused by the Sun's UV rays. But if you use 3” Chlorine Tablets (Trichlor Tablets) you will be adding Cyanuric Acid to your pool on a constant basis. Here I will discuss the effects of high CYA in your pool water, how to correct it, and ways to prevent it from rising to high levels again.
Bob Lowry is the author of over 23 books but this has to be one of his most relevant and shortest books coming in at just 19 pages thick. But it is packed with so many essentials on residential pool chemistry that you will want a copy to carry in your service truck. Bob Lowry has been in the industry for over 47 years and is the Lead Consultant at Lowry Consulting Group, leads the Pool Chemistry Training Institute, and has created the Certified Residential Pool & Spa Certification Program. Learn more at pcti.online/
If your CYA level is very low the Sun's UV rays will cause the chlorine to burn off quickly leaving your pool with no sanitizer or very low levels. The Conditioner in the pool helps to protect the chlorine from burning off too quickly.
Very high CYA levels will make the chlorine in your pool less effective which means you will have to keep the levels very high in your pool to make it effective. Your pool may also develop algae blooms even with high chlorine levels present. These algae blooms are also hard to get rid of in a pool with very high CYA levels. High levels of CYA will also give you false ORP readings if your pool uses ORP to measure the safety and swim-ability of the water. High CYA also will give you a false Alkalinity reading, if you test the Alkalinity and it is at 100 it is more likely at only 70 if you use the Adjusted Alkalinity reading,
The ideal level of CYA in your pool is 30-50 ppm and up to 80 ppm of you have a saltwater pool. Testing the Cyanuric Acid level in your pool at the beginning of the season is crucial. There are many ways to test the CYA level in your pool including the standard Turbidity test, digital testing, and test strips.
You should also utilize the LSI Index (Langelier Saturation Index) in your pool water testing. This will let you know if the pool water is scale-forming or corrosive. If you have a Taylor Test Kit (K2000 Series) it will have the Watergram included which will help you calculate the pool’s LSI. You can also use several online apps to calculate the pool’s LSI. Regardless of what you use, you should be checking the LSI at least once a month in your pool or the pool’s service.
Testing the CYA level in your pool if you suspect very high levels can be challenging. The standard Turbidity Test Kits only work effectively to 100 ppm. If you get an initial reading over 100 ppm you will have to do a dilution test of 50% tap water and 50% pool water. If the reading is still high you will need to use 75% tab water and 25% pool water and so on. Each time you dilute the sample the reading becomes more difficult to nail down accurately. Test strips are a great alternative in pools that have high CYA levels. Most test strips will go as high as 250-300 ppm so this is a good way to check pools that have very high CYA levels.
LaMotte actually makes a test strip that will read CYA levels up to 500 ppm accurately. This is a very handy test strip to have if you service pools for a living. Just dip the test strip in and then match it up to the side of the tube where there is a color chart.
Since Cyanuric Acid does not naturally leave the pool water if you add it to your pool through the use of 3” Chlorinating Tablets the levels will constantly rise. These 3” Trichlor Tablets are over 50% Conditioner per tablet by weight, so as you use them in the Summer you are constantly adding Cyanuric Acid to your pool water. The only way Cyanuric Acid leaves the pool water is through backwashing and splash out. As the water evaporates the Cyanuric Acid will remain in the pool. To lower the CYA level in your pool you will have to do a partial or full drain of the pool water.
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Great info, thanks! Been trying to lower my CYA by draining some water each year in the cooler seasons. I gotta say that CYA is stubborn. My local Leslie's kept telling me to have those pucks in the floater all the time, and that's where my CYA problems started.
Yes, try to cut down on the tablets if you can.
Hi Just wanted to stop by and say thank you so much for recommending the Evo 604 to me a couple weeks ago. I got it yesterday and I'm super happy with it. It's absolutely perfect for my needs.
Great pod cast! Great information 👍
I’m not an expert in water chemistry but I have a degree in a chemistry related field. Bob is everything I look to in a subject matter expert. His advice is clearly grounded in deep technical understanding, everything he states can be backed up scientifically, and he is clear to state what he doesn’t know for sure.
Most importantly he explains stuff simply, in a way that is easy to follow.
Easily the best educational pi fr on CYA in the industry.
This was great, thank you.
I started lowrys Borate method on Monday after I chlorine rinsed and acid washed with helpful tips from your videos and podcasts and my balance couldn't be more perfect with borate . Was lucky to start with a fresh startup with filtered water. Never seen my pool so sparking clean . Thank you guys , love the podcasts! Oh and by the way I'm not a pro but it looked like a pro did it haha
Good hear that! 👊👍👍
Still one of the best podcast!
Leslie’s should require their employees watch all of these videos
RIP....Thank you Bob....
Thanks!
Thank you for your support!
I have about 40k gallon pool, and just had my water tested. CYA was a little over 200ppm. How much water do I need to remove?
I learned that the tablets I was using is the reason for my high CYA.
I don’t plan on using tablets anymore, instead I will use granular chlorine with no cyanuric acid.
Draining half will drop it to 100 ppm which is acceptable.
I know for a fact CYA can get into a vinyl liner. I poured some granular in my pool a few times(straight no dilution), and noticed a distinct dark spot at the pouring area. It went away with time, and with it, my very high CYA measurement.
Yeah, that can happen for sure.
Informative!
☕🤔🥃👍🏻
Hello have you tried Bio-Active Cyanuric Acid Reducer or do you a video review on it? Thanks
I been trying to get alkalinity in range to then lower stubborn high PH, but I now see that my high CYA is keeping my PH high.
Drain about 1/3 of the water and see if you can get things under control.
@@SPL I've only been doing pools for a month and started at a large pool company. Most have low alkalinity, high PH, high CYA, low salt, all salt cells need cleaning, and ofcourse low chlorine. I have been getting the alk up, adding salt, and stopped all chlorine tabs. I know it will take me a while to get things right.
@@JuanSanchez-tk4vr I just started myself, and I know my first week will be checking lvls and cleaning/making sure everything is circulating correctly ect. Hope you learned some tips for the trade. Gl
Question? I seen bob mention that a pool with a SWG needs to be at 70 vs a pool with should be at 50? What’s the logic behind this?
Do you have videos talking about sulfuric vs muriatic? And how much acid we need add each jug chlorine ?
Yes - try this video out: ruclips.net/video/2CSuZ-o6omM/видео.html
@@SPL I did watch this videos, I don’t use dry chemicals, thx!
Ive drained my pool half way and got a 30 cya reading and was happy it lowered...But 2 weeks later it jumped back to 130...I even took out my Tabs after draining...Any other ideas..?
No one know for sure but the CYA could be embedded in the plaster. I would try to stop tablets entirely at this point and ride out the rest of the season.
Buy you a Rolla chem and use liquid chlorine
If I have really high CYA and just add liquid chlorine will that bond with the residual CYA and gradually reduce my CYA level?
If you don't use anymore products containing CYA it will gradually decrease.
I wonder what he says about using tabs and dichlor for initial chlorination.
Dichlor yes. Bob agrees that is a good way to add both chlorine and CYA.
Should ask RAGING WATERS IN SAN JOSE FOR THAT SAMPLE. I emptied all the pools this year. The pool floor started to buckle up and got resurfaced recently. Some pools are still empty and out of service. Just a suggestion not promising they allow it.😁
Smart idea. 👍
We had 150 PPM Cyanuric acid in our 1900 gallon Swim Spa. It was caused by using stabilized 1” chlorine tablets.
I completely drained and refilled the spa. I also switched to Bromine tablets. As expected my CYA is now zero. My question, since I switched to Bromine 1” tablets, do I need to measure CYA levels. Does CYA protect Bromine like it does Chlorine?
No need to measure CYA now as it doesn't protect the bromine - only chlorine. Just keep it covered when not in use and you will be fine.
New pool setup here. To my knowledge, my roommate has not added this acid. Some may have come from tablets. Today, I tested (hth strips) the water source (well water) and the test readings were the same. It's reading at the
Max+ level (100+). So is it coming from the water source? Changing water would not correct it then.... Pools been up a few weeks, very little use, did a shock for green algae which cleared up quickly, and now attempting to lower ph and alkalinity (pretty high). Free Chlorine is not reading at all. Either have a chlorine lock or demand? Hoping that getting the PH in line, the rest will follow more easily. Any advice from similar experience or knowledge is most appreciated. =) If it is the water source... How does something like this happen?
Maybe you are using 3" Trichlor Tablets? That adds CYA to the pool.
The only problem with adding tap water to the pool here in Florida it causes major scale . Is there any thing I can do to controle that from happening
Hard to prevent here in CA also. Not much on the market for that.
@@SPL Leslie’s sells Jacuzzi Descaler (previously AquaRex). Seeing good results here in az. Have you tried this product, if so, see any results?
Water softener when filling also a dedicated softener for the fill line
My CYA is at 324😅
No issues there. 😉
Our vibyl pool is very cloudy. Had Leslie test my water CYA is 188. They told me to pump the water down 2-3 times and fresh water. Done! They also had me to turn off the chlorinator with the tabs also. Pool is still cloudy. Should I add clarifier? How do we clear up the water now?
That should help and maybe check the filter.
You need to add flock it will make everything settle on the bottom then manually vacuum on waste
How does CYA affect the salt water pools?
Salt water pool or pool with salt in it for a chlorine generator? if the latter you still put in cya to the required level to protect your chlorine and it doesn’t increase except for backwashing splash out etc. So i would think you’ll just need to keep adding CYA to keep it at the required levels which wouldn’t be too often.
Yes, you would need it as it protects the chlorine the same way as if you manually added it.
Does cedar trees have an effect on CYA levels? I was told by my pool builder that the cedar tree, that was close to the pool area, needed to be cut down because it would raise the CYA levels constantly and I would be dumping water all the time to keep CYA levels in check.. I'm learning that my pool builder is not a very trustworthy company... and now I'm wondering if he fed me a line of BS and took my tree down for nothing.
Never heard of that before.
@@SPL Yea, I don't know what his intention was but I have asked quite a few pool companies and all of them had the same answer. He was feeding me a big ole plate of BULL----. Nothing I can do about it now the tree is gone. I have SOOO many complaints with this PB i'm ready to call the BBB and report them.
I'm using calcium hypochlorite (granules) is that have CYA?
No. No CYA in that.
I heard on a pool talk by someone that if you let CYA get too high they even found that a complete drain and refill still had 30ppm when filled with fresh water. Is it possible that it saturated the filter or the walls? otherwise i can’t see how that’s possible. oops. i guess i should have waited until the end of the podcast to comment. lol.
You are good. No one really knows at this point.
What if you just use a liquid bleach chlorinator?
Yes, they have liquid chlorine feeders. Check out HASA's site.
I say "Genius!"
If CYA keeps PH from going down, why do I have such a hard time getting my PH over 7.0 in my high CYA pool? It seems to prevent my PH from staying up.
The tablets are adding acid to the pool lowering the pH down. Not uncommon. Try using less tablets.
Why don’t they sell unstablized tablets to solve so many problems?
They do now. They are called Cal Hypo tablers. Poolife or CCH