Sal, you are doing a fine job. They will likely need a bigger dredge ultimately, but the two smaller ones were immediately available and can start moving bottom. Looks to me the stern is in almost 45 ft of water or close. Yes the stability is suspect at the moment, but will improve immediately once she slides into deeper water. I think there is little chance of capsizing. Problem with removing the heavier containers is that they are buried under the empties and would likely need several hundred moves to remove sufficient weight.
Dale Pyatt, the green one, is the biggest clamshell dredge in the western hemisphere. 60 yard environmental bucket, 30 yard hard digging bucket. The blue dredge is "only" a 4600, 15 yards reported. Sure would like to see an update of the soundings as they are now after the dredging done so far. Sounds like the disposal end is a bottleneck too, material is "like cement".
I used to keep a 32' sailboat on the Eastern shore opposite Baltimore. I quickly learned to ignore the tides and focus on the wind. With a 10-15 knot northerly wind at high tide the water level was lower than at low tide with a southerly wind.
I would pull the bow over to the channel vs renaming the ship Everrearward. They really need a cutter suction dredge there to clear that area to the starboard side.
I would think as they clear areas around and under the ship that there would be forces between supported areas and now non-supported areas. You mentioned the risk of rolling to starboard, but I wonder is there risk of structural damage?
Are bridge voice recorders mandatory on this type of ship? I was at the helm of a small ship once leaving a northeastern US port. We left the pier and the pilot gave a left rudder command to turn us around and pass thru a drawbridge. As the turn started the pilot ands the captain started BSing and no one gave the order to steady on a course until I interrupted the conversation. Could this have happened to Ever Forward? I wonder if a third world deckhand might be more reluctant to speak up?
I would guess they ( if they want to move her forward ) are dredging around the stern, so the area would let sediment fall away from the prop, also give way to propulsion wash, if they intend to use the prop. Also, they might need the weight of the fuel to keep her grounded, until they are ready to move her. Thank you for keeping us updated.
Where are the rotary/vacuum/hopper dredges of different sizes located and how long would it take to get the largest to the location. I imagine it would take a week at least and the $ amount is probably why this is not happening! I ran a bay shrimp boat for 18 years and can verify that one of these type of dredges can change the underwater landscape over night!!
There is a recommended speed. There are reasons for such high speed. If they were having issues with the ship turning, they could have increased the speed. We won't know until they release the bridge recordings.
Some crazies took a fishing boat around Everforward here @ I'm amazed at the beating the full length of the port side has taken, I'm assuming, in the Canal over the two years she's been afloat.
Boy, those dopes at Donjon Marine Co. and Smit Salvage Americas Inc., should hire "What is Going on With Shipping?" to run this salvage! Can I get an "Amen"?
They may want to take off empty containers because they are a lot easier to handle than a full one even though a lot more of them would have to be moved. A much smaller crane would be needed. Also the empties are less of a problem once they are off ( you don't have to make sure they get to their destination.)
If they could find an adequate crane on barge, they could focus on the Norfolk loads, which where loaded with stability in mind upon discharge. They would have to shift from port to starboard to reach as many stacks athwartship as possible and with the greater concern for stability. Norfolk's loads could be taken by barge directly to port to minimize double handling..
Another potential spin off story…how are these deeper channels maintained. In a mud bottom environment, it would seem those channels would be filling in continuously. A storm could have a huge impact on those channels…it would seem.
Maybe clam shells are appropriate for the typical needs of that harbor, but for production I've seen more efficient steam dredges that were abandoned in the middle of the Yukon 100 years ago.
This all reminds me of the CSCL Indian Ocean, that ran aground oder here on the river Elbe in 2016. But here we have a tide of 11 ft. and a bunch of dredgers and tugs from a totally different ballpark. So, crossing fingers and best wishes to the salvage team.
Check out that documentary about the oil tanker fire and ensuing intrigue surrounding the Greek owner, Lloyds, and the insurance adjuster that was murdered.
to much time to much money to off load containers that would be the last resort going to dredge around the ship and try to pull it off with a lot of luck
It is about half and half. It had offloaded in Savannah and Baltimore; but was heading to Norfolk and NY/NJ. Evergreen will want it back as they need it for the route.
Given MV charter rates, doubt they’ll want to delay extracting the vessel. With their luck an Atlantic hurricane will use them as a bullseye later this year if they delay.
Has anyone ever tried underwater high pressure water hoses directed at the ship/mud interface (probably advanced symmetrically down either side to prevent uneven support). Pressurized water is amazingly powerful (could even cut steel!) Even if it didn't completely clear the debris under the ship it might soften/lubricate it to ease the extraction, though I suspect it could actually remove much of the mud without too much backfilling (certainly not highly compacted). Maybe used in conjunction with the shaker/vibrator devices used when piledriving or making coffer dams. If it was feasible, it could even be an add--on to fire boats at these ports (IF the US had any fire boats at their ports!!!)
I think the big issue there is displacing the spoil into the bay water which in this case would likely settle at the bottom of the channel. Something the state and port authority would probably not be pleased with.
I haven’t heard any type of initial report as to the cause of the mishap, whether it was an operational error, or mechanical. Have you any info on that? There has to knowledge by now of what was the cause. Inquiring minds want to know.
If they dredge to starboard and dredge to aft .. and then pull the MV backwards into the deep channel .. the bow may swing to starboard and float faster .. it could be the mud to starboard is not as shallow ..
When can we expect a readout of the bridge data and voice recorders? Did the same company hire and train the bridge crews for Ever Given and Ever Forward, and do they have a history of cutting corners? Has the shipper declared General Average, and if Ever Forward has relatively little cargo aboard, does that mean the shipper bears a larger portion of the cost of salvaging the ship?
There has been no release of the name of the master. It is very doubtful as Ever Forward is registered in Hong Kong and Wver Given in Panama with an Indian crew.
Fascinating stuff for a landlubber. So I’d see a spin off story…how do dredgers work? Do they use sonar to see the bottom to know where to dig and how much progress they are making? This is a hot story, so I appreciate the more frequent updates. Short updates are just fine!
Sal, keeping your math on the cranes in mind, I too was surprized by the arrival of the two cranes and the barges. A goal I could imagine is: removing mud that contains things like rocks (let's say: football size) that could damage the rudder(s) or propeller(s) when the Ever Forward would be pulled out roughly along her original path in reverse. The crane near the bow might try to remove possible "rocks" from the starboard side of the bow thruster(s), indicating an intention to pull the ship back into the channel via a shorter way if possible. I (Dutch) think that Smit would have preferred a way of sucking the mud away and store it somewhere, and that the visible works indicate resorting to a Plan B. This plan might (in my two-cent dream) include using the ship's own general and fire pumps to have water jets spit down the sides of the ship in order to reduce the suction of the mud and to have the ship float inside an extremely tight "channel" of water (however muddy). This plan would then put the fuel in the bunkers of the ship to good use, rather than discharging it into other vessels.
Sand and silt do not exert suction on the hull per se. There is friction and cohesiveness (glue effect) if clay is involved. I agree once the clam shells have deepened the adjacent water, then a water jet to fluidize the sand would be helpful. It would need to be done equally, but I think it would allow the vessel to sink gently into a floating condition.
A modern Day Captain caused all this? WOW. Looks like the people need to address issues like this in a NEW Captains exam. Not a compitent Captain for the industry.
WE NEED the USAV Essayons over on this job. She's the perfect dredge for this job, since we can seem to get, legally, one of the Suez monsters over here.
I was surprised to see the tide in Annapolis is only 1ft. The tide on the Potomac in DC (where I live) at the same time is 3 ft. Also, I think the last time there was a storm surge of 6ft in the bay was during Hurricane Isabel. That's not something I would want. Maybe a Nor'easter from the right direction could push a few feet of water up the bay.
I think they can dredge port bow, and stern to starboard, so when ships engine is free, with tugs, the ship can be towed astern and pivited to starboard. Mud that is under the hull may sluff into trenches dredged on sides. two weeks minimum.
Thanks for the updates. I don't understand why they can't build a portable lock in such shallow water and just lift the ship up that way. Engineering is needed.
What is a roll hump? Which can be pluralized. Saw some license plate looking bumper plate that said "roll humps" bottom right of the video and the very beginning.
@@wgowshipping oh okay, I thought that was funny cuz, I thought it meant something like... the ocean is a Fickle woman, consecutive big waves...something like shipping container vessels would have issues with, on the high seas? But then again, what do I know, thanks for the reply.
So how likely is it that if the bow and stern get floated but amidships is still in the mud, would that possibly result in a cracked hull because of uneven distribution of weight?
get 2 or more heavy lift helicopter and take off the boxes off the Ever Forward . it will lighten the vessel and can use it on engine to get her off the mud. how to dredge under the ship since she is stuck?
Sal… would a empty container ship be able to help pull it out instead of tugs ? Probably a dumb question, but just curious how a small tug works better ? Thanks
Infrastructure? How about investing in quality people to sail these ships? And, to maintain and repair them. Oh, I forgot, quota system and slave labor are far more important. Other than deficit spending, I don’t see any company investing in some very expensive equipment with very expensive personnel to man it, to just sit around and wait for a ship to run a ground that is manned by people who are obviously not qualified to do the job. Of course the dysfunctional wrecking crew government in Washington can’t wait to deficit spend for something else totally unnecessary. This ship look like a victim of cheap, unqualified, slave labor, to man her, or, the Bush 45’ no child left behind program which had to graduate into no adult left behind. 😂Don’t the owners of these ships pay people the bare minimum?
If they dig behind the vessel, and a long both sides, it is possible to use the quick water in a hard reverse to push a lot of the mud out from under the vessel and into the two trenches.
Adding my hat to the D Witte discourse, I'm thinking it's supposed to sound like De Whit. Growing up around this area I've heard a few folks with that surname so maybe it's a family thing?
Also, I wonder if they announced where they are gonna dump the mud. I know the channel dredges dumped north of the mouth of the patapsco but I think that site is filled.
Last thought, do you think that with this event, there's going to be a consideration to deepen the channel so that ships can take on ballast before entering the bay? I imagine with this larger class of ships entering the port more frequently the likelihood of repeating these same ballast conditions when exiting the port/bay is high.
Alternatively in a likely more costly operation but less destructive/disruptive to the bay is to have a ballast station near the port exit that can pump silt filtered harbor water for ships to use. That way ships aren't risking running aground with little to no ballast.
The problem with infrastructure is that there are SO many competing parties looking for money. The first question you have to ask yourself is what is infrastructure and how do we pay for it. Those questions are probably outside of the scope of this channel but budget constraints are a huge part of this. Everyone wants nice stuff, no one wants to pay for it.
If only they actually used the infrastructure money in The United States, rather than sending all to other Countries for who knows what. It is a scam stealing taxpayer money to build their New World Order, as announced by Biden himself this eeek. The Build Back Better, doesn’t include our Country, we just pay for it.
I mentioned two dredges last episode. This won't be quick or easy. HOW LONG to REFLOAT??? One month. That's two paychecks for the crews involved. Professor let's get you researching how much this is going to cost. Keep up the good work and start up a REFLOAT pool.
All these men had jewels, and one man stole them all and sold them. The men would ask him did you sell mine? And he would say yes, "sold yours." = "Soldiers."
They require high capacity cutter suction dredging with the spoil being deposited not that far away from “Ever Forward’s” grounded position via floating pipeline. The dredged path exit plan for the vessel should be dependent on the bottom structure. If it is a mud substrate down to 15 metres then dredging along the grounding track back into the channel may be a possibility. If the substrate consists of some rock……there is a problem. Not an easy solution either way.
Great job explaining things. I was wondering if anyone looked at the effort it took to get the USS Missouri re-floated after she ran aground back in the 50's. The Missouri grounded near Thimble Shoal IIRC and the tidal range was quite a bit more. My guess is removing fuel and water will never be enough. The mud suction has to be overcome...for the Missouri they used explosives at the same time as several ships pulling. Also in the case of the Missouri , they had to remove all 16 and 5 inch ammunition. Again great job and you get a subscription from me !!
I may be wrong, but it appears they would be dredging the starboard bow to pull the bow back into the channel, not the port side, as you said beginning at the 5:45 mark. Also, while it makes little difference, tide in this area is about 2-3 feet. On Tugs, Dann Marine has two seagoing tugs, and are about two hours run north at Chesapeake City. That said, I could not agree more on the need for more vessels to deal with this sort of situation. Good video, glad to have the info you gather.
@@wgowshipping I grew up in that area, and still have property on the water with line of sight to the Ever Forward's current location. Not sure who put the tide table together, but life experience tells me it's two feet in that area. Could be that I'm going by a more natural indicator, the actual water marks, that would average all tides. The monthly lunar tides you mentioned are easily close to three foot. A good blow from the north combined with an extreme tide can pull the water off the beach by six feet easily. And as you mentioned, the reverse can make a six foot difference in the opposite direction. So I've seen water cover my steps and obliterate the beach, and I've seen the 'beach' extend out to where crab pots are set. Which leads me to an interesting hypothesis on how Ever Forward got where she is. You mentioned the hydrodynamics of getting close the the bank in Ever Given's situation. The Craighill channel would be similar in effect. And I have seen in the Tolchester channel huge effects of ships at speed sucking water off the beach, and then flooding the beach. It's my theory that due to size and currents at the time she just didn't respond as well to rudder input as she should have, because of what amounts to the Bernoulli effect under water. Just a thought, not an expert opinion.
Useless trivia: those games you see in amusement parks and pizza parlors with a clamshell and a lot of cheap prizes are generically known as "crane games" or just "cranes". Prediction on the salvage: they will dredge along the starboard side, not under the vessel, but between the channel and the ship. Probably down to a foot or two below bottom of hull level. They will also dredge the back channel to below hull depth. Then on a good tide they will probably have a couple or three salvage tugs on the stern to pull her backwards, along with ship's own propulsion, and a couple or more of smaller tugs along the starboard bow and possibly side, trying to pull her off the ledge and slide back to the channel.
Of course you are right to raise the topic of the ship's stability. But, some care is required to explain how stability is reduced in this grounding where the soil has lifted the ship about 20 feet higher than if it was floating. Of course, the location of the ship's center of gravity is nearly at the same height in the ship as if it was floating. But, the restoring stability from the hull floating is less BECAUSE so much of the hull has been lifted. As usual, wonderful video.
Looking at AIS it seems like draft was pretty similar coming in with the vessel listing itself at 13.1m or ~43ft of draft shortly before arrival in Baltimore
How does this grounding compare to the Heng Tong 77 that grounded off the coast of Kerachi last year? I didn't see much coverage of that story but it looked to be beached in very shallow depths with a very heavy cargo on board - what did the Indian authorities do to shift her??
@@ytjos222 I totally disagree. Egyptians didn’t call the Dutch, Evergreen company did like what is happening in US but the difference Egyptians led and Smit was just watching because the smit company plan was to off load the ship but that would take months and the world wont be able to handle a crisis in shipping that’s why Egyptians took the risk and dredged very close to the ship and got it to float again. Even Pentagon stated in a statement that was a heroic. Suez Canal Authority has the best dredges and teams in the world but they can’t go outside because the importance of suez Canal and right now they are dredging a new canal in the southern part of the canal so what happened in evergreen doesn’t happen again.In this case there is no urgency that’s why no need to rush but if there is an urgency Egyptians have largest 2 dredgers in the world but will take 30 days to come.that’s why if you see the videos of refloating the ship you wont see anyone from smit because it was too dangerous to be that close from the ship. By the way so many incidents happens in the suez but the Egyptians handles them fast
The Vessel has been renamed ...... Forever Stuck. Thanks for the updates.
Sal, you are doing a fine job. They will likely need a bigger dredge ultimately, but the two smaller ones were immediately available and can start moving bottom. Looks to me the stern is in almost 45 ft of water or close. Yes the stability is suspect at the moment, but will improve immediately once she slides into deeper water. I think there is little chance of capsizing. Problem with removing the heavier containers is that they are buried under the empties and would likely need several hundred moves to remove sufficient weight.
Dale Pyatt, the green one, is the biggest clamshell dredge in the western hemisphere. 60 yard environmental bucket, 30 yard hard digging bucket. The blue dredge is "only" a 4600, 15 yards reported. Sure would like to see an update of the soundings as they are now after the dredging done so far. Sounds like the disposal end is a bottleneck too, material is "like cement".
Glad my video was useful to you! Will try to go out and get more video in the future.
Did you take the video from Downs Park?
@@bernarrcoletta7419 Correct.
Sal, always looking at the big picture. -And not just understanding it, explaining it. Thank you for your valuable input sir.
Clamshell dredgers are more for photo PR. It will be interesting to see what solution they develop.
I used to keep a 32' sailboat on the Eastern shore opposite Baltimore. I quickly learned to ignore the tides and focus on the wind. With a 10-15 knot northerly wind at high tide the water level was lower than at low tide with a southerly wind.
Thank you !
Thanks for the follow up, Sal.
I would pull the bow over to the channel vs renaming the ship Everrearward. They really need a cutter suction dredge there to clear that area to the starboard side.
I would think as they clear areas around and under the ship that there would be forces between supported areas and now non-supported areas. You mentioned the risk of rolling to starboard, but I wonder is there risk of structural damage?
Are bridge voice recorders mandatory on this type of ship? I was at the helm of a small ship once leaving a northeastern US port. We left the pier and the pilot gave a left rudder command to turn us around and pass thru a drawbridge. As the turn started the pilot ands the captain started BSing and no one gave the order to steady on a course until I interrupted the conversation. Could this have happened to Ever Forward? I wonder if a third world deckhand might be more reluctant to speak up?
Yes, VDRs are required.
I don't know for sure but the biggest suction dredges are on the Mississippi River it would take a far amount of time to get them to Baltimore.
I would guess they ( if they want to move her forward ) are dredging around the stern, so the area would let sediment fall away from the prop, also give way to propulsion wash, if they intend to use the prop. Also, they might need the weight of the fuel to keep her grounded, until they are ready to move her. Thank you for keeping us updated.
Where are the rotary/vacuum/hopper dredges of different sizes located and how long would it take to get the largest to the location. I imagine it would take a week at least and the $ amount is probably why this is not happening! I ran a bay shrimp boat for 18 years and can verify that one of these type of dredges can change the underwater landscape over night!!
Hi - any idea of the reason or the high speed ? Who sets the speed - was it the Pilots?
There is a recommended speed. There are reasons for such high speed. If they were having issues with the ship turning, they could have increased the speed.
We won't know until they release the bridge recordings.
The good news is mud tends to be slippery. So even though the vessel is heavy it can slide in the mud.
Opposing that is the suction that develops between the mud and the hull, the longer it sits the harder it will be to shift it.
They scold re-name the company everaground
Some crazies took a fishing boat around Everforward here @ I'm amazed at the beating the full length of the port side has taken, I'm assuming, in the Canal over the two years she's been afloat.
Boy, those dopes at Donjon Marine Co. and Smit Salvage Americas Inc., should hire "What is Going on With Shipping?" to run this salvage!
Can I get an "Amen"?
They may want to take off empty containers because they are a lot easier to handle than a full one even though a lot more of them would have to be moved. A much smaller crane would be needed. Also the empties are less of a problem once they are off ( you don't have to make sure they get to their destination.)
If they could find an adequate crane on barge, they could focus on the Norfolk loads, which where loaded with stability in mind upon discharge. They would have to shift from port to starboard to reach as many stacks athwartship as possible and with the greater concern for stability. Norfolk's loads could be taken by barge directly to port to minimize double handling..
Another potential spin off story…how are these deeper channels maintained. In a mud bottom environment, it would seem those channels would be filling in continuously. A storm could have a huge impact on those channels…it would seem.
Is it technically a (port) list if she hasn’t shipped any water but is simply sitting on a slightly tilted bottom?
Thanks Sal. Hope Ever Forward is refloated soon.
I'm interested in why it was going so fast and missed the turn. A pilot wanting to get home on time?
Maybe clam shells are appropriate for the typical needs of that harbor, but for production I've seen more efficient steam dredges that were abandoned in the middle of the Yukon 100 years ago.
This all reminds me of the CSCL Indian Ocean, that ran aground oder here on the river Elbe in 2016. But here we have a tide of 11 ft. and a bunch of dredgers and tugs from a totally different ballpark. So, crossing fingers and best wishes to the salvage team.
I'm just a random truck driver and I'm wondering if this company is partners with swift
it must be, but never announced the merger!!
Check out that documentary about the oil tanker fire and ensuing intrigue surrounding the Greek owner, Lloyds, and the insurance adjuster that was murdered.
question I have is why don't a tug or 2 stay with the vessel leaving Port until after that turn in the channel ?
If I am correct the hopper dredge Murden passed through this area shortly after the grounding. A shame that they can't retask her to assist.
🙂 Witty is still my going vote. You stay on topic, and, articulate your ship information in A+.
I think we need captain Andy & the Moroccan Mullet to come up and produce videos.
to much time to much money to off load containers that would be the last resort going to dredge around the ship and try to pull it off with a lot of luck
With a modern container ship the fuel oil may well be in tower tanks rather than in the double bottom tanks.
Is Evergreen the worst shipping company company on Earth ?
You kept saying dredging Port side forward but you meant Starboard side nearest the channel.
Thanks for the updates.
There will probably be little urgency to get this ship salvaged since it is loaded with mostly empties and is out of the channel. Slow and steady.
It is about half and half. It had offloaded in Savannah and Baltimore; but was heading to Norfolk and NY/NJ. Evergreen will want it back as they need it for the route.
Given MV charter rates, doubt they’ll want to delay extracting the vessel. With their luck an Atlantic hurricane will use them as a bullseye later this year if they delay.
it lookss like there setting up to prop dregs using the ships prop to move mud from under the ship
Oh I see, the stuck ship is like America, trying to get us out of the mud I reckon
Has anyone ever tried underwater high pressure water hoses directed at the ship/mud interface (probably advanced symmetrically down either side to prevent uneven support). Pressurized water is amazingly powerful (could even cut steel!) Even if it didn't completely clear the debris under the ship it might soften/lubricate it to ease the extraction, though I suspect it could actually remove much of the mud without too much backfilling (certainly not highly compacted). Maybe used in conjunction with the shaker/vibrator devices used when piledriving or making coffer dams.
If it was feasible, it could even be an add--on to fire boats at these ports (IF the US had any fire boats at their ports!!!)
I think the big issue there is displacing the spoil into the bay water which in this case would likely settle at the bottom of the channel. Something the state and port authority would probably not be pleased with.
The Evergiven was a pilot issue. The Everforward seems likely the same. Are modern pilots rubbish?
The same idea crossed my mind 👀
Seems? You ever see a car accident? All the time right? All drivers are rubbish.
I haven’t heard any type of initial report as to the cause of the mishap, whether it was an operational error, or mechanical. Have you any info on that? There has to knowledge by now of what was the cause. Inquiring minds want to know.
Nothing has been released.
They need some suction dredges - makes moving mud very quick.
There are a bunch (8 to 10) of big suction dredges for sale in china....right now.
For anyone near there, the Marine Radio channels would be interesting listening.
If they dredge to starboard and dredge to aft .. and then pull the MV backwards into the deep channel .. the bow may swing to starboard and float faster .. it could be the mud to starboard is not as shallow ..
Maybe Evergreen is trying to get into the amphibious landing container business.
When can we expect a readout of the bridge data and voice recorders? Did the same company hire and train the bridge crews for Ever Given and Ever Forward, and do they have a history of cutting corners? Has the shipper declared General Average, and if Ever Forward has relatively little cargo aboard, does that mean the shipper bears a larger portion of the cost of salvaging the ship?
No telling on the VDR. There were different ship managers. No GA declared yet. GA is figured based on value of cargo.
There are rumors that the same Captain was on both Evergreen ships, can anyone confirm that? If not that is a rumor that should be squashed.
There has been no release of the name of the master. It is very doubtful as Ever Forward is registered in Hong Kong and Wver Given in Panama with an Indian crew.
@@wgowshipping Thanks Sal, I figure it was speculation on their part, not fact.
To float this ship it will have to have all the cargo and fuel removed. There are more than 20,000 tons of conex boxes on board plus the fuel.
Better use towing tugs
Fascinating stuff for a landlubber. So I’d see a spin off story…how do dredgers work? Do they use sonar to see the bottom to know where to dig and how much progress they are making? This is a hot story, so I appreciate the more frequent updates. Short updates are just fine!
Sal, keeping your math on the cranes in mind, I too was surprized by the arrival of the two cranes and the barges.
A goal I could imagine is: removing mud that contains things like rocks (let's say: football size) that could damage the rudder(s) or propeller(s) when the Ever Forward would be pulled out roughly along her original path in reverse. The crane near the bow might try to remove possible "rocks" from the starboard side of the bow thruster(s), indicating an intention to pull the ship back into the channel via a shorter way if possible.
I (Dutch) think that Smit would have preferred a way of sucking the mud away and store it somewhere, and that the visible works indicate resorting to a Plan B. This plan might (in my two-cent dream) include using the ship's own general and fire pumps to have water jets spit down the sides of the ship in order to reduce the suction of the mud and to have the ship float inside an extremely tight "channel" of water (however muddy). This plan would then put the fuel in the bunkers of the ship to good use, rather than discharging it into other vessels.
Oops, wrong side of the bow thruster(s) for that theory of using it/them. :-(
Sand and silt do not exert suction on the hull per se. There is friction and cohesiveness (glue effect) if clay is involved. I agree once the clam shells have deepened the adjacent water, then a water jet to fluidize the sand would be helpful. It would need to be done equally, but I think it would allow the vessel to sink gently into a floating condition.
A modern Day Captain caused all this? WOW. Looks like the people need to address issues like this in a NEW Captains exam. Not a compitent Captain for the industry.
Why are they doing this? What is going on?
WE NEED the USAV Essayons over on this job. She's the perfect dredge for this job, since we can seem to get, legally, one of the Suez monsters over here.
I was surprised to see the tide in Annapolis is only 1ft. The tide on the Potomac in DC (where I live) at the same time is 3 ft. Also, I think the last time there was a storm surge of 6ft in the bay was during Hurricane Isabel. That's not something I would want. Maybe a Nor'easter from the right direction could push a few feet of water up the bay.
Yeah Matt i think these figures are off. I love on the bay, tides are normally 2 ft. Sometimes an extra 2 feet for a total of 4 but 6 is REALLY RARE.
I think they can dredge port bow, and stern to starboard, so when ships engine is free, with tugs, the ship can be towed astern and pivited to starboard. Mud that is under the hull may sluff into trenches dredged on sides. two weeks minimum.
Thanks for the updates. I don't understand why they can't build a portable lock in such shallow water and just lift the ship up that way. Engineering is needed.
you said they were dredging on the port side, it looks to me they are dredging on the starboard side
My bad. Starboard side. Not sure why I said port.
Should rename it "Never Forward".
What is a roll hump? Which can be pluralized. Saw some license plate looking bumper plate that said "roll humps" bottom right of the video and the very beginning.
Campbell University, where I teach, is the home of the Fighting Camels. Our teams use the hastag #RollHumps!
@@wgowshipping oh okay, I thought that was funny cuz, I thought it meant something like... the ocean is a Fickle woman, consecutive big waves...something like shipping container vessels would have issues with, on the high seas? But then again, what do I know, thanks for the reply.
So how likely is it that if the bow and stern get floated but amidships is still in the mud, would that possibly result in a cracked hull because of uneven distribution of weight?
get 2 or more heavy lift helicopter and take off the boxes off the Ever Forward . it will lighten the vessel and can use it on engine to get her off the mud. how to dredge under the ship since she is stuck?
Helicopters can not lift loaded containers.
@@wgowshipping and, there are no canes that can lift 50 tons at that height in baltimore.
Sal… would a empty container ship be able to help pull it out instead of tugs ? Probably a dumb question, but just curious how a small tug works better ? Thanks
It is all a matter of bollard pull.
@@wgowshipping thanks Sal
Infrastructure? How about investing in quality people to sail these ships? And, to maintain and repair them. Oh, I forgot, quota system and slave labor are far more important. Other than deficit spending, I don’t see any company investing in some very expensive equipment with very expensive personnel to man it, to just sit around and wait for a ship to run a ground that is manned by people who are obviously not qualified to do the job. Of course the dysfunctional wrecking crew government in Washington can’t wait to deficit spend for something else totally unnecessary.
This ship look like a victim of cheap, unqualified, slave labor, to man her, or, the Bush 45’ no child left behind program which had to graduate into no adult left behind. 😂Don’t the owners of these ships pay people the bare minimum?
If they dig behind the vessel, and a long both sides, it is possible to use the quick water in a hard reverse to push a lot of the mud out from under the vessel and into the two trenches.
Adding my hat to the D Witte discourse, I'm thinking it's supposed to sound like De Whit. Growing up around this area I've heard a few folks with that surname so maybe it's a family thing?
Also, I wonder if they announced where they are gonna dump the mud. I know the channel dredges dumped north of the mouth of the patapsco but I think that site is filled.
Last thought, do you think that with this event, there's going to be a consideration to deepen the channel so that ships can take on ballast before entering the bay? I imagine with this larger class of ships entering the port more frequently the likelihood of repeating these same ballast conditions when exiting the port/bay is high.
Alternatively in a likely more costly operation but less destructive/disruptive to the bay is to have a ballast station near the port exit that can pump silt filtered harbor water for ships to use. That way ships aren't risking running aground with little to no ballast.
Don Jon Marine has 2 tugs that are around 10K hp a piece. Atlantic Salvor is one of the and I’m not sure the name of the other. They are sister ships.
She is up in New York
@@wgowshipping yea well there is no reason for her to be there right now. If so why isn’t there bigger tugs there now?
The problem with infrastructure is that there are SO many competing parties looking for money. The first question you have to ask yourself is what is infrastructure and how do we pay for it. Those questions are probably outside of the scope of this channel but budget constraints are a huge part of this. Everyone wants nice stuff, no one wants to pay for it.
If only they actually used the infrastructure money in The United States, rather than sending all to other Countries for who knows what. It is a scam stealing taxpayer money to build their New World Order, as announced by Biden himself this eeek. The Build Back Better, doesn’t include our Country, we just pay for it.
GREAT JOB SAL
What does the ships crew do during all this down time? Watch net flix?
I mentioned two dredges last episode. This won't be quick or easy. HOW LONG to REFLOAT??? One month. That's two paychecks for the crews involved. Professor let's get you researching how much this is going to cost. Keep up the good work and start up a REFLOAT pool.
The head of the Port of Baltimore said this will take weeks.
That is stuck
Not enough. They are just toying with ship. Need larger dredge and tugs.
none in baltimore, any at newport news......
Couldn't the local Pilot prevented this or maybe bad charts
Pilot was onboard and there was no issue with the charts.
Thank you for the heads up
Would they send divers down in this situation?
They sent them down to inspect the hull.
I just got to say you are doing a great job on reporting this stuff and with a humorous touch
All these men had jewels, and one man stole them all and sold them. The men would ask him did you sell mine? And he would say yes, "sold yours." = "Soldiers."
Strictly from a marketing brand perspective, time to remove the big white letters on the sides!
Hi hope owners pandi signed "scopic" job contract and not signed lop owise smit will wipe owners out
Ever not going a lot of Forward yet...
They require high capacity cutter suction dredging with the spoil being deposited not that far away from “Ever Forward’s” grounded position via floating pipeline. The dredged path exit plan for the vessel should be dependent on the bottom structure. If it is a mud substrate down to 15 metres then dredging along the grounding track back into the channel may be a possibility. If the substrate consists of some rock……there is a problem. Not an easy solution either way.
I don't know of any rock in this section of the Chesapeake
@@pinbuoy that is encouraging news. The next challenge is sourcing high capacity cutter suction dredges.
Great interview on As It Happens last night. Very concise, factual and easy to listen to. You should post it on your site.
Thank you so much. I will.
thanks sal
Great job explaining things. I was wondering if anyone looked at the effort it took to get the USS Missouri re-floated after she ran aground back in the 50's. The Missouri grounded near Thimble Shoal IIRC and the tidal range was quite a bit more. My guess is removing fuel and water will never be enough. The mud suction has to be overcome...for the Missouri they used explosives at the same time as several ships pulling. Also in the case of the Missouri , they had to remove all 16 and 5 inch ammunition. Again great job and you get a subscription from me !!
I discussed Missouri in a previous episode.
ruclips.net/video/lGazJ3MCMC0/видео.html
I hope they are able to remedy this in a timely manner and not become a New Carissa eye sore. Thanks for the video Sal!
its just an eyesore to the residents of gibson islsnd.
I may be wrong, but it appears they would be dredging the starboard bow to pull the bow back into the channel, not the port side, as you said beginning at the 5:45 mark. Also, while it makes little difference, tide in this area is about 2-3 feet.
On Tugs, Dann Marine has two seagoing tugs, and are about two hours run north at Chesapeake City. That said, I could not agree more on the need for more vessels to deal with this sort of situation.
Good video, glad to have the info you gather.
I did slip and say port vice starboard. On the previous video I showed the tide table and it is only showing a foot.
@@wgowshipping I grew up in that area, and still have property on the water with line of sight to the Ever Forward's current location. Not sure who put the tide table together, but life experience tells me it's two feet in that area. Could be that I'm going by a more natural indicator, the actual water marks, that would average all tides. The monthly lunar tides you mentioned are easily close to three foot. A good blow from the north combined with an extreme tide can pull the water off the beach by six feet easily. And as you mentioned, the reverse can make a six foot difference in the opposite direction. So I've seen water cover my steps and obliterate the beach, and I've seen the 'beach' extend out to where crab pots are set.
Which leads me to an interesting hypothesis on how Ever Forward got where she is. You mentioned the hydrodynamics of getting close the the bank in Ever Given's situation. The Craighill channel would be similar in effect. And I have seen in the Tolchester channel huge effects of ships at speed sucking water off the beach, and then flooding the beach. It's my theory that due to size and currents at the time she just didn't respond as well to rudder input as she should have, because of what amounts to the Bernoulli effect under water. Just a thought, not an expert opinion.
Useless trivia: those games you see in amusement parks and pizza parlors with a clamshell and a lot of cheap prizes are generically known as "crane games" or just "cranes".
Prediction on the salvage: they will dredge along the starboard side, not under the vessel, but between the channel and the ship. Probably down to a foot or two below bottom of hull level. They will also dredge the back channel to below hull depth. Then on a good tide they will probably have a couple or three salvage tugs on the stern to pull her backwards, along with ship's own propulsion, and a couple or more of smaller tugs along the starboard bow and possibly side, trying to pull her off the ledge and slide back to the channel.
Of course you are right to raise the topic of the ship's stability. But, some care is required to explain how stability is reduced in this grounding where the soil has lifted the ship about 20 feet higher than if it was floating. Of course, the location of the ship's center of gravity is nearly at the same height in the ship as if it was floating. But, the restoring stability from the hull floating is less BECAUSE so much of the hull has been lifted.
As usual, wonderful video.
Looking at AIS it seems like draft was pretty similar coming in with the vessel listing itself at 13.1m or ~43ft of draft shortly before arrival in Baltimore
This thing isn’t getting out til a big storm comes
How does this grounding compare to the Heng Tong 77 that grounded off the coast of Kerachi last year? I didn't see much coverage of that story but it looked to be beached in very shallow depths with a very heavy cargo on board - what did the Indian authorities do to shift her??
get a few shore gang on board and 2 chinook helicopter and take off the containers on board so that the ship can float . no environmental issue
a chinook can only lift 38k.
the dredge on the bow is just removing mud to break the suction at the bow, and the one at the stern is widening the plowed area the ship made.
So informative and it's given an insight into a world which to most of us is hidden. I find it mesmerising.
A Comment
Discharge the container cargo, more easy.
over the side into the river!!!
👍👍👊
Call the Egyptians
the egyptians called the dutch. So.... the usa called the dutch. You do some big ship salvage-research on RUclips: all Smit / Boskalis - brains.
@@ytjos222 I totally disagree. Egyptians didn’t call the Dutch, Evergreen company did like what is happening in US but the difference Egyptians led and Smit was just watching because the smit company plan was to off load the ship but that would take months and the world wont be able to handle a crisis in shipping that’s why Egyptians took the risk and dredged very close to the ship and got it to float again. Even Pentagon stated in a statement that was a heroic. Suez Canal Authority has the best dredges and teams in the world but they can’t go outside because the importance of suez Canal and right now they are dredging a new canal in the southern part of the canal so what happened in evergreen doesn’t happen again.In this case there is no urgency that’s why no need to rush but if there is an urgency Egyptians have largest 2 dredgers in the world but will take 30 days to come.that’s why if you see the videos of refloating the ship you wont see anyone from smit because it was too dangerous to be that close from the ship. By the way so many incidents happens in the suez but the Egyptians handles them fast
how do you know how long my legs are