What did viewers say about our D&D Satanic Panic video?
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Our viewers had a lot to say about our Dungeons and Dragons and the Satanic Panic video. It this episode we present some of those comments as well as a Dark Dungeons Chick Tract sent to us by a viewer - very special thanks to Jeffrey R.
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I was in high school ( Catholic high school) at the beginning of The Panic. Oddly enough, the priests that ran the school completely ignored all the media hype. They even let us use the library after school to form a "game club"---there were D&D, Traveller, Gamma World, Chess, and Backgammon games going on almost every day. Maybe they figured as long as we were there under their watchful eyes, we weren't getting into trouble somewhere else. One of the priests--a history teacher--used to give us short lectures on ancient and medieval cultures so as to add some "authenticity" to our games. After hearing some of these stories from your video, I guess I should probably consider myself lucky that I didn't have to experience the ugly side of that whole mess.
I was a bit younger during the Panic but I was also raised Catholic and it seemed D&D hasn't even registered on the Vatican's radar to this very day. I bought my D&D books to mass, & we played D&D on Parrish grounds after Sunday School without any issue. I knew other Christian denominations were rallying against D&D & I kept expecting the Catholic Church to address it but they never did. The extent of the Panic for me was watching a 60 Minutes special with my grandfather. He then flipped through my Monster Manual & said "These are just Celtic & Norse myths" & that was it.
I remember the dark times. my friends mom came home one Wednesday night after church and Immediately grabbed all his D&D books and burned them. She said at church they talked about these devil books and made him b promise to never play D&D again. So, we switched to Ruequest, Gurps, Traveller and Call or Cthuluth.
We love hearing about people's personal experiences with this stuff. Thanks for the comment Scott.
I started back in 78-79' at age 11-12 and my parents were more than understanding about my playing. I think they knew i wasn't going to summon the devil while playing a game and more importantly I wasn't out doing drugs and drinking like some of my other friends. Just me and the other introverts having fun on the weekends. I do remember other parents or adults looking down on me or other who played as a bunch of weirdo's or cult-like but I never gave them any attention and neither did my parents. D&D has given me so much as an outlet for my creativity and imagination and I would never trade it for anything growing up. I've brought my kids up on the game and love sharing it with others who don't know what it is or what it's like. So glad that it's more accepted now then it used to be. Good video guys!
Same here brother! Started in 80 at age 10.
You can also find chicktracts online. I think I stumbled upon them in the early 2000's and found them hilarious. I'm sorry if someone has traumas related to them.
It just came to me that I need to talk to my parents about the Satanic panic in Finland as it landed in the 90's here. I don't think the ground here is all that fertile for it even as back then there was an economic depression. Welfare state tends to even out extremes in general I think.
On a lighter note we just talked with my wife about how our dog's breeder name is Gamemaster. It had to have "game" as part of it so my wife suggested the name to the breeder. It's funny because Into, our little black poodle, really likes to sit on a chair at the table when we play. :D
Those chick tracks are legend. There are a ton of them. All are comedy gold. The heavy metal one was also good, but Darkest Dungeons ... whew so much meme fodder in that one. (I am passing judgement on it, I had those things thrown at me growing up)
My mom wouldn't let me borrow chairs to play dnd because of its stigma at the age 25 in 2014 because she thought we were going to summon up some demons at my house
Wait, you didn't summon demons when you played? Well you're boring : ) (yes, this was sarcasm, for those who didn't realize it) : )
@@Lightmane too low level lol
@@hangfirerecords 😛
@@Lightmane YOU STOLE MY COMMENT! LOL
@@99zxk Hah! : )
I grew up in Lansing Michigan and went to a Baptist church that had no problem with Roleplaying Games. Because of the James Dallas Egbert case my school had a huge problem with Roleplaying Games. I still play D&D and lead D&D games at Church. I have been playing since 1975 and did not have a problem until 1979. I have lots of horror stories about the Satanic Panic.
If you lead games at a church, do you have any problems with congregation members today? Most responses seem to say problems have lessened but are by no means gone.
I am 54 I remember the satanic panic, it went in music, heavy metal, two of my favorite things D&D and metal music. In high school me and my friends started a band named the band drow. We got a little attention from the universe radio station. And we're interviewed by the local paper. The girl doing the interview show us a document from the police. It stayed we were on a satanic cult watch list. We were wondering how the police always knew were We were playing and shutting us down. Love you guys wish I could play some D&D with you all.
Wow that's annoying that that happened! Hopefully now you can play your music unhindered. We appreciate the support a lot, keep your sword arm free!
I first got into RPGs in 1980, at age 23. We played at the Student Union Building at Dalhousie University in Halifax, NS, Canada. There were two book stores/comic book shops in town which sold games and minis, so there was no real opposition to gaming. I soon dropped D&D (we had a poor DM) and moved on to other RPGs like Traveller and The Fantasy Trip. In 1982, FASA Corp. brought out the Star Trek RPG and I still have my campaign going today. My current gaming group joined my game in 1988 after I moved to Ottawa - a group of three Engineering students at Carleton University. Due to something called real life, we broke up in the mid '90's but got together again in Y2K and have been gaming once a month since then. All three of my group are now professional engineers now, one working for the National Research Council after having been an officer in the Canadian Army. Gaming was instrumental in my recovery from a stroke in 2007. I still enjoy the camaraderie and good times with my friends.
There's really nothing like it. Thanks for sharing your story Owen, we love hearing how the game has impacted people's lives! Keep your sword arm free.
I appreciate your dispassionate reading of the chic tract. I think a lot of folks would've taken the opportunity to bash Christianity but you didn't. Good form.
[OFFTOPIC] It's nice you guys changed the way you guys record the videos. I'm not a native English speaker and I had some troubles understanding you, but now it's 100% fine. I'll put some time into watching the older videos I missed because i was worried I'd not understand. Great job!
That's great to hear, thanks Evgeniy!!!
Rifts? Been a long time since I played it, but IIRC it was a post apocalyptic genre bending multi-dimensional/universe/reality TTRPG.
And yeah, I was one of the kids with a rational parent. Mom watched us play, shook her head at the obvious lies being told about the game and encouraged us to play more. :)
Been playing these games since grade 5 or 6, and I'm 50 now :P
Only stumbled across you recently, but I've been catching up on all your episodes. In the 80s I had cousins that weren't allowed to play with face cards, but I didn't deal with it until the mid 90s with my White Wolf books. My parents made me take my books to their pastor for his judgement on whether they were okay or not. The pastor, was also a gamer and said they were fine, to which my parents moved to a different church.
😂
🤣🤣🤣
Another thought also came to mind... It was during the 80's before AOL, Compuserve, and other Services in the heyday of the early "BBS Bulletin Board Services" where someone could at 300 or 1200 BAUD download a copy of "The Anarchist Cookbook" and other "Questionable Texts". The use of these BBS Systems ranged from younger people to older adults who had access to the computers and modems, and some basic knowledge on how to find items to download. This also possibly led to people who were supporting the "Satanic Panic" discovering the ease of availability of these books "Banned by Libraries" and considered "Evil" or "Satanic". And of course these items were typically the files people wanted to eagerly share.
Some good points here. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook and it was almost a badge of honor to be known as someone who had one. For some, the knowledge that there were "underground texts" being distributed or sought - documents or books that were different and that you might not understand - was frightening. I'm pretty sure you're right. It was all part of the setting that led to the SP. Great comment.
@The Old Warlock Thanks, so I wasn't the only one who downloaded it.. it was a much different time with computers and file sharing. Had to actually work hard and dig deep to find interesting stuff to download. The modern generations using the internet have no idea how easy they got it now. I can imagine a parent back then discovering a download like "The Anarchist Cookbook" or such by their kids using the computer... I also remember the time it took my dot matrix printer to print it!
Hey, 2000s kid here. This isn't related to D&D but I thought I'd give my perspective as someone who felt the impact of the satanic panic years after its heyday. Thankfully my parents, though often concerned, never prevented me from getting into nerdy stuff. In fact, my mom started getting really into Harry Potter when the fourth movie came out and my dad was into Star Trek and the Diablo games. What I experienced was alienation from other kids and their parents. When I was in elementary school, all the christians were terrified of Pokemon and Harry Potter and anything similar. I remember going to my best friend's house and we played all day in the backyard, I think I was around 6 or 7 years old. We used to hang out all the time, we practically grew up together. Before I went home, I showed him my Yu-Gi-Oh cards because I assumed he would be into it due to almost every guy at my school being into it at the time. Then his dad comes out with a look on his face like I just committed a crime and says "be VERY careful what you get into" in the most hateful, condescending tone. I forget exactly what he said after that, but basically he didn't want me coming over to their house anymore and my best friend hung out with me less and less until we stopped being friends. After that he became best friends with another kid that moved onto our street and they both eventually started picking on me. One time when we were all riding our bikes, I was just trying to be friendly and join in, but they kept purposely snaking me with their bikes so I'd crash, which eventually happened and I got hurt. After that, I just avoided them. What was kind of unique about my experience, however, was that at school I'd be picked on for the opposite reasons. Back then, me and my mom still went to church and I was one of the only christians there, so they thought I was a goody two-shoes. I had one kid that harassed me all recess saying "you're stupid for believing in god, there is no god!" and wouldn't leave me alone. I never tried to push my beliefs on anyone, but I was a loser because I wasn't into partying and doing drugs at 12 YEARS OLD. Unfortunately, I got the worst of both crowds. I guess in the end, they were preppy, one way or another, but I felt like I didn't belong anywhere. Even other nerds thought I was too goody-goody so they avoided me. It wasn't until high school that I found people kind of caught in the middle like me, who didn't judge me based on little to no information. Bottom line is, these witch hunts hurt everyone, and their affect lasted well after they ended.
Agreed. We've had a lot of comments show that the effects of these witch hunts last long after they've moved on to another target.
Your reference to the He-Man thing reminded me of something I had completely forgotten. My younger cousins were not allowed to watch the Speed Racer cartoon or the Three Stooges because of the violence in the late 70s to early 80s.
I've never heard of Speed Racer and the Stooges being on someone's list - makes sense I guess when Bugs Bunny was banned in a lot of households I knew.
I started playing in '82. My friend Luke went back to Missouri to visit family & returned with a pair of anti-D&D leaflets (not Chik Tracts). We decided to answer the author as politely and thoroughly as we could. We took several days to write up a response & even had my parents read through it. We invited the pastor to come to a session & watch us play. We mailed the letter off & received no answer from the Pastor. Lesson learned.
That's really interesting, we've been loving hearing people's comments on their experiences with this. Thanks for sharing David!
Rifts is a crazy post apocalyptical rpg produced by Palladium. It is a really cool scifi/fantasy hybrid world with really crappy game mechanics.
Accurate. Great Art, cool themes, not a lot of fun. Hunh.
Reminds me that i still need to check out Savage Worlds' Rifts book and see if it's decent enought to warrant working on converting content
@@GraceMcCown it has to be better.
Another cause for the Satanic Panic might be contributed by the increased interest by youth of the early 80's in the "OUIJA BOARD". I remember as a JR High/High School aged kid at that time joining in with some friends to meet up at one of their very old creepy houses at night a few times to "Try it out" around Halloween.... I believe one of the major board game manufacturers was selling them in big retailers like K-Mart, and other stores which carried a selection of board games from that time frame... I can only imagine the impact that had on the developing "Satanic Panic"! This same group of friends years later became our weekly weekend AD&D group after graduation for several years.
Interesting that you mention this. I initially thought the same thing - that it had to play a major role in the SP. However, when researching for the video, I came across an article by someone much smarter than myself who wrote that for some reason, the Ouija was mostly overlooked during that early 80s panic. Why? No one seems to know. The Ouija Board had been around forever and was, at that time I believe, published by Parker Brothers. Maybe if it was published by a mainstream publisher it was less threatening? Was it just unknown to the people attacking D&D? I don't really know but I've been looking more into it in the past few months. We may have to do another video. Again, thanks for the great comment.
@The Old Warlock your probably right, it had lost some of its more "sinister" image from the early days over 100 years prior. I read an article that initially it was a "tool" to communicate with lost loved ones, but surely that changed during the Salem witch trials period of time. I also think it was Parker brothers who were producing it during the 80s, and it had become mainstream by then... kind of a Halloween "prop." I would have thought though that the religious groups of the time still would have had a problem with it. But true, it wasn't as "mysterious" as D&D was to many.
since you asked for it, here is the perspective from a (west)german, who grew up in the 80ies/90ies:
first of since i grew up in an evangelical family my parents, but even more my grandparents were sceptical about _everything_ including magic or the (alleged) occult. but it was more about books, movies (from bakshi's LOTR to disney), music and yes, he-man - not RPGs. after the death of my grandfather my parents became more and more open to such things - to the point they even bought me RPG video games and began to absolutely love the later LOTR-movies. but since evangelicals are quite 'exotic' here, that doesn't represent the mainstream in germany at all. (btw if an evangelical pastor would confront some random kids here with some wild accusations or hand out such comics, he himself might become the target of an 'religious-extremist-panic', since most germans are not having any of that.)
on a public level in 1993 and then again 2001 there were two famous murder cases of selfproclaimed satanists and so naturally the media reported for quite a while about the dangers of satanism. _but_ (and that's a very important difference to the colonies) almost noone believed in the supernatural powers of satan at work, but it was depicted as a dangerous part of youth culture of some lunatics, who believe in weird things and sometimes end up murdering people.
additionally _some parts_ (of course not all of them!) of the german goth- and black-metal-scene to a certain degree have an affinty towards 'brown esotericism' - ranging from a fascination for weird paganist ideas proclaimed by guys like himmler to outright neonazism. of course this added to the fear of teachers and parents, that their students/kids might end up in such groups. but again: it wasn't about people actually thinking that any supernatural powers were involved, but that such influence could lead to criminal actions or political extremism.
regarding the whole 'D&D-panic' germany is somewhat different anyways. because the licenses from TSR were too expensive for potential german resellers (in the beginning), some guys invented their own system: "the dark eye" (the literal translation would be "the black eye", but since that has a different meaning in english, the name was switched). so, that became _the_ german P&P-RPG - even with later video game adaptations. i guess that somewhat helped to prevent the 'D&D-panic' to swap over to germany, because i don't recall that ever being a huge thing here in my youth - maybe apart from some concerned people, who saw the hanks-movie ... but then again it was just a random movie from the colonies, so not _too_ important for people here (weird people like my grandad probably wouldn't even have watched it, because it includes magic ... or the illusion of magic ... but still 'something with magic').
nowadays the satanic panic basically has two dimensions. on the one hand we also have our conspiracy idiots, who more or less buy into the whole qanon-BS. _of course_ - since it's germany - a bunch of these idiots also are so called 'reichsbürger' ('imperial citizens') claiming 'the reich' legally still exists, since it never surrendered at the end of WW2 (only the wehrmacht did), and the federal republic of germany is only a company of the allies (yeah, that's a thing here! XD). but because they're so nuts, none of the 'regular media outlets' would ever take them seriously at all; on the contrary they're mocking them constantly. (which is not to say, that 'alex-jones-like alternative medias' don't exist here as well.)
on the other hand (and that's actually really concerning) some psychotherapists (esp. in trauma therapy) still buy into that 'satanist-ritual'-BS and more or less do what lawrence pazder did: influencing their patients into believing they're the victims of satanic cults (incl. all the typical claims like animal/human sacrifices and such). since these psychotherapists are somewhat influential (e.g. as experts in legal trials) and can harm their patients by inducing severe paranoias, i think at the end of the day they're way more dangerous than those conspiracy weirdos.
and unlike in the colonies suing these people for wrong diagnosis and harming treatments isn't that easy (the patients often aren't in the mental state for long lasting trials and their relatives sometimes are the suspects of being involved in the alleged satanist rituals). so, even if their practises are revealed, it often almost has no consequences for them and they can keep spreading their BS - and alarmingly to somewhat fragile people, who are in dire need of actual _real_ psychological treatment. and even _if_ someone would be legally charged, the financial charges in germany usually aren't anywhere near to what a colonist charlatan would have to pay, so that they don't risk that much with their practises here.
way too long, but meh, now it's too late. ;P
This was great. Our question about how the SP played out externally to the colonies has had pretty much the same answer from throughout Europe. Essentially (thankfully), it never gained any traction. From all we've heard, the paranoia peddling certainly existed/exists in Europe, just not the supernatural side of it. We really appreciate the reply - such things help us to obtain at least some understanding of how RPGs and similar entertainments are viewed around the world.
My first exposure to D&D was in middle school, I just moved and began getting to know a few people when one of them brought out the 3e player's handbook. It was really neat and they decided to start playing at lunch, I being a nerd thought I'd ask to join. They actually told me that I couldn't because their moms didn't know me. I asked what they meant by that and they basically said I might end up like the guy who committed suicide during the Satanic Panic era... This was around 2003, I couldn't believe people were still referencing that stuff. Although I more so believe now they just didn't want to let anyone into their group.
You might be right. I've seen people use all kinds of odd reasoning to keep their games exclusive. And, yeah, bringing that in in 2003! They may have been trying to be cool and edgy by referencing all that stuff.
I started playing in 1980 in Tucson AZ at a Catholic high school. After graduating I moved to Redlands CA (San Bernardino area) and got in with a couple of great groups there. At one point, I playing for a bit with a group that actually turned out to be Satanists..it was really weird and very uncomfortable when they came out and admitted what they were in to. They wanted me to join them and offered me all kinds of stuff to stay and join. I explained that I wasn't into that stuff and left, never went back. Other than that creepy experience it was all just harmless gaming.
Wow... that would have been an interesting experience. I've played with a lot of different people over the years but never any actual Satanists. Gotta admit, I'm really curious about what kind of stuff they offered you.
@@theoldwarlock all the things that would entice a young man...
We used to get the odd Chick Tract in our bags on Halloween and let me tell you, if you're really looking to get your house egged and/or toilet papered, a great way to do it is handing out goofy religious comic books instead of candy to a bunch of wound up middle-schoolers. 🤘Hail Santa! 🤘
You made us laugh with this comment - thanks for that!
First time I went to comic con a few people were their with signs saying it was the devils work. This was 2010
We've heard from a number of people who say it's still a thing. Seems like it will ever go away.
I wonder if this chick put out some little books on other subjects. In the early 70s I found a book like that on the evil of teen sex mix with my Halloween candy. I was not able to read yet ,but the pictures show a boy and a girl taking in the front seat and a devil in the back seat. It really frightened me ,and I thought why would a devil want to attack these kids just for talking. I never thought of this until you showed the pictures.
From what we are aware there are quite a few of these types of booklets on all kinds of different subjects, not strictly related to dungeons and dragons!
Things I learned watching this video... Well... I'm a little worried about Debbie now 😎
We are too.
I remember when I started getting interested in DnD when I was still in high school. Mom's only comment about it was "just don't get too serious about those characters, okay? I've heard kids kill themselves after they lose their characters." That was it. Kind of surprising, considering she grew up during that era herself.
That seemed to be a recurring theme amongst those who hated/were scared of the game! Glad to hear you were still able to play! Keep your sword arm free!
Cool video. I grew up in a very fundamentalist household in the 80s and 90s. I never got in to DnD at that time, but did get in to fantasy novels and PC games. But the only knowledge we had about DnD was that it was akin to witchcraft and Satanism.
Hey thanks for sharing! We always love hearing about other people's experiences with that game during that time. Glad you ended up playing it!
Hi Jim, Hi Alex
I totally agree with the comment of the french guy. In France this controverse was mainly supported by people thinking that RPG in general and D&D in particular, was causing mental desorders. The religious angle was not so important. If you don't have the reference, the French TV show was "Bas les masques" (Which translates with "Drop the act!", but I'm not sure) and below are the links of both parts. The image quality isn't very good, and I think you can follow the debate by activating subtitles with automatic translation.
I'd like to add a personnal thought about this dark episode. Many french people like me began to play later than most young americans used to. The reasons are that it took a few years for D&D to come in France, and the we needed to have a decent level in english in order to understand the Gygaxian's Cant. As no offical translation of the game existed, only late teenees or adults could overcome this barrier. A few years later, the game spread and became more and more popular. Younger kids, with "softer minds" could be more easily disappointed or disturbed by some aspects of the game. And for the weaker ones, it intensified minor mental disorders, with sometimes very serious consequences. The game wasn't the cause, it was a trigger and it could have been anything else (from heavy metal to violent Tv shows or even drug,...).
Well, I hope you got the point with my frenchy engish !
And thank you for you videos !
Alain
Part 1 : ruclips.net/video/ba12Auz_erA/видео.html
Part 2 : ruclips.net/video/tKmt1mymGTg/видео.html
Hi Alain, we appreciate the comment! That's really interesting. It's always fascinating to hear from some of our viewers outside of the US and compare their experiences to ours, especially when it comes to this. Keep your sword arm free!
Rifts was one of the Palladium games
A while back I thought there was a movie made to re-enact the Dark Dungeon comic. Its meant as comedy. I can't remember where I saw that.
This was my first experience with the TV, Politicians and Media all lying about something I knew. And later they did the same with the Ozzy and Judas Priest I listened to. Gen X, tens of millions of us need to get off our asse and shake sense into people!
There wasn't a social tension. In the 90s if you were against racism it just meant you were a regular person. We laughed at racist jokes about others and ourselves but regarded racist people as fools stuck in the horrible past we were lucky to be born after. We had difficult conversations without worrying about pissing each other off. The person making the hard-core racist jokes usually got the hint nobody was laughing with him and occasionally he got knocked out.
Too much togetherness isn't good for those at the top sticking it to us so Division became the game again. Politicians been playing that game since forever. Telecommunications Act in 96 made it even easier.
Don't let the TV, tablet, phone or Teacher make you hate your neighbor.
I'll take you one further, I ran an independent rock show at the University I work at, and because some of the bands that would play were heavy metal bands I had to fend off accusations of satanism in the 2010s
Wow, the 2010s? I thought that was decades gone. I guess it's all still there just under the surface waiting for the right agitator(s) to come along.
23:00 - Damn the original DMG really has some crazy details, if only I could read higygaxian and didn't limit my Cleric level by playing a Half Orc
Let me begin w/ an apology due to the long post upcoming. So grab your drink sit back & buckle up.
I’m 50 now, born is 72. I’m from the South. Southern Arkansas to be precise. In the early 80’s my parents owned & ran a Arts, Crafts, & Hobby store called The Whistle Stop. I would work there after school & during the summer. I was “paid” by picking out 1 book every 2 weeks. Mom & Dad are very religious but had been told by my older sisters friend that D&D was just a game nothing to worry about.
So they sold the books & box sets. So my payment was a D&D book every 2 weeks. They also sold Classic Traveller, & other “pocket games” Like Ogre & the like.
Then my mom went full Satanic Panic. All of my box sets (OG Greyhawk & Forgotten Realms box sets), Moldvay, & The Red Box. All of my books 1st Ed DMG, PHB, OG Monster Manuel, Deities & Demigods (w/ Cthulhu Mythos), the Fiend Folio, all my modules, all of the D&D Choose your own adventure style books Endless Quests, all of my He Man action figures, & all of my Conan books, & even all of my other RPG stuff like my OG Black Box Classic Traveller set, & every pocket game I was “paid” w/ working there.
She claims God told her to do all of this.
So I had to sneak around as a 10 year old to play RPG’s at friends houses. She didn’t trust me to stay over night b/c she knew my friends all played RPG’s & actually thought I was being controlled by demons making me want to read & play.
She tried to burn my Tolkien Book Collection of The Hobbit, & the 3 Books from Lord of The Ring but I was able to smuggle them out to a friends house to save them.
I continued to sneak around to play from age 10 all the way up until I moved out @ 18.
She still feels the same about RPG’s & truly believes that all the positive being said about them & their benefits are lies of the devil.
I still play, though I took a break for about 15 or so years cause life and all. But recently have gotten back into it.
She still prays for me that the “demon” leaves me so I won’t play these “devil games” anymore 😂
Wow... Really, really sorry things went that way. We appreciate you sharing the story all the same. Glad you still play.
Hard to believe that your mom couldn't see that you were turning into a fine young man. Hard working, reading books and learning to interact with people.
The "devil" in this case seems to be obedience. She felt that she had no choice but to believe the lies she was told.
No blame on her, it's just how they were raised back then.
I could tell you several stories, but I'll just share one. I once saw a video of a preacher saying he would show proof that D&D is Satanic. One of his proofs? In the D&D books, it talks about Demons and Devils. I wanted to say to this "preacher" 'Have you read the bible, by chance?'.
One more thing, just for fun. The first D&D module I ever read? Well that would be the Book of Revelation. It gave me some ideas for an adventure : )
I can tell you it made it to New Zealand in the 80s which I found hilarious because my uncle was a non-nondenominational lay minister and my cousins were some of the biggest convention organisers in the North Island, but then I think there was a deep rift between the evangelical fundamentalists and the more ecumenical churches. If anyone in New Zealand is reading, my family, my elder brother notably, organised Rolecon, New Zealand's biggest dnd convention (at least to my knowledge, My experience being the baby brother was convincing the evangelical kids in my hometown that they were thoroughly misguided in their judgment, certainly the heavy metal fears were just as prominent which often saw me getting back up from some of the rougher kids I grew up with I think the churches our first few conventions were hosted in the local Catholic School so there was certainly a schism between the fundamentalist churches and the ecumenical churches
Hi Geoff! Thanks for sharing this. We're always wondering how such things as the Satanic Panic affected games and gamers outside the US. A number of people have said that their church denomination had no problem with RPGs and there do seem to be denominational differences (at least anecdotally that's what we've seen). But there also seems to have been individual personalities that played a strong role (no pun intended) in how specific churches reacted to the nonsense, which I guess is to be expected. Hopefully, RPGs are too entrenched in mainstream culture now to be such a target as they once were. But you never know.
I think what you said about He-man is correct. There were plenty of "beastly" figures that someone susceptible to the satanic panic would think these toys were problematic.
I know it's been said before, but I was always confused about people not liking D&D (or anything similar). How can you hate the game? You're the good guys defending the land from evil! In many cases you are literally playing the role of exorcists and vanquishing Devils and demons back to The Abyss. I guess D&D having more a Greek or Norse style pantheon than a "one true God" doesn't help.
If you're willing to share, I'm curious what rule system you use. You seem to hint about not doing solely AD&D first Edition in some of your videos.
Hello Harrleigh! On your second question, maybe it just boils down to fearing the unknown? I agree, for the majority of people it's a game of good vs. evil. What's not to like? As for the rule system, we plan to put a video together about our "rule" set in the next few months. It's pretty much Holmes basic D&D with some bits and pieces of AD&D First Edition and Top Secret thrown in. AD&D books were more or less supplements for our game although we used all the monster manuals and most of the AD&D Players Handbook.
Jeff Lynne plays D&D? Too cool! ;-)
He surely does!
I still remember my family member telling me about people who played D&D and killed themselves in the real world when their characters died.
Some of the rumors going around about D&D (and that maybe still go around about D&D) are pretty wild to hear. It doesn't seem like the Chick Tracts helped with that all that much.
@@theoldwarlock it was also rumored that Robert E. Howard committed suicide because he couldn't be Conan.
So who's to say why some people do commit suicide.
The Satanic Panic was definitely alive and well in Canada too. And I remember the backmasking phenomena as part of that. Including hip hop, which was still quite young as a style then. It for sure was rife with xenophobic and racist objections to the music. My parents were swept up into the whole Panic too. I wasn't allowed to watch He-Man or play D&D. I did t come back to playing D&D until four/five years ago, and I feel like some of my youth was robbed
It really did have some long-term effects for a lot of people. Glad to hear you're playing now, though.
Rifts is a TTRPG from paladium
Silverhawks and Thundercats were targeted too
Good point. We got some strange looks by parents when we let our kids play with whatever they wanted. Thundercats was one of those.
Rifts is an RPG. It is a futuristic one with Terminators, Vampires, Mutants etc.
Thanks Diabolik!
That is a very basic description, but yeah.
Growing up in the late 90s / early 2000s, I wasn't allowed to play D&D (or play Magic the Gathering, World of Warcraft, Pokémon, or read Harry Potter). I'm glad I've been an adult since about 2007 because now Marvel is on my mom's list of "satanic / demonic" entertainment.
When I told my mom I play D&D after one of her rants, she went pale. I pulled out my books, character sheets, pictures of mine and my friends' characters, my dice collection, and our minis. She still has no desire to play unless I home brew a Christian campaign for her and my dad (I have no desire to do that), but she does ask how both campaigns I'm in are going. The more she asks and hears about the sessions, the more it seems like her views on it are becoming more open minded.
Thanks so much for sharing Kiyanna, we appreciate it! It's always great to hear other experiences with the game and how it's affected them.
I am from Brazil, Rio deJaneiro, and we simply didn´t had anything like that around here. The 80´s and 90´s where very relaxed times in cultural terms. Besides, we have more obvious targets for a possible satanic panic outburst, like the black religions of Candomble and Umbanda (for an outsider, they would looklike vodoo - animal sacrifices, dancing gods and offering in the street corners), and the carnival (check some brazilian carnival video to get what i mean). Nowadays Brazil imported a lot of the crazy american right wing bullshit thru neo pentecostal churches, but we still didn´t have anything like that.
If anyone watching this wants more Chick Tract reading by people like these guys, look up Hannah and Jake here on RUclips.
You will laugh you butt off.
I'd even go as far as to say RELIGIOUS history. Since its an anomaly that really had never occured prior to tabletop gaming. The phenomenon of mass response to perceived satanism. Even rock/metal music on its own prior to D&D didn't illicit a response as great as the panic in the 80s.
well, the typical accusations (human sacrifices, drinking blood and so on) in fact are _really old_ - dating back to antiquity. and _everyone_ could be the target: roman 'pagans' accusing christians, early 'mainstream' christians accusing 'heretics', mediaeval christians accusing jews, churches accusing 'witches' ... to the satanic panic a few decades ago and qanon nowadays. the core narrative is always the same: "those people, we don't like to begin with, do horrible and unimaginable things ..."
the only thing that really changed over the millenia, was the speed with which such panics could spread due to different media used: word of mouth, written text, printed text to modern mass media.
Wow
I guess they don’t realize it’s a game?
That track is crazy
Yeah, it's quite a read.
D&D got targeted due to terminology used, that terminology was used because it was glorified by the history of Witch Hunts, the very thing D&D was attacked for perpetuating, those attacks made the game look "cool", now D&D is an Empire.
The Streisand Effect is real, in other words, the Panicked did this to themselves.
Agreed. Things don't seem to have worked out the way the Panicked hoped. Gary Gygax made reference to how positive the SP was for the game overall. Still, it made things pretty miserable for a lot of folk.
@@theoldwarlock no dening that
Born in 1990, went to Catholic school for K-8, catholic all girls school for grades 9-12. My parents were a lot more strict than those of my classmates and I was always so jealous of the other kids home life. We went to Church multiple times a week. I wasnt allowed to dress up in scary costumes for halloween. I was not allowed to play video games. One of my friends gave me her old game boy to play pokemon and I hid it under my mattress. The gameboy was smashed in front of me and the pokemon game earned me a long talk on the topic of evolution when it was found. I saw a dnd book in bookstore when I was 8 and picked it up cause it had cool illustrations my mom grabbed it out of my hand and threw it across the store. That was my only encounter with dnd until about 10 years ago. People with tattoos were pointed out to me and held up as an example of people on the wrong path. Homophobia was drilled into my head at every turn. I wasnt allowed to read harry potter or see the movies which was one of the biggest pop culture touchstones for my generation. It caused more fights in my household than i could count. I had a fascination with geology as a kid which was all well and good until I brought crystals into the house. Those were thrown out without my knowledge along with the tarot cards that my best friend had bought me for my birthday. Fast forward to now my early thirtues, I'm a harry potter fan, just completed my first play through of a video game, halloween is my favorite holiday, I'm agnostic but have a blossoming interest in witchcraft, have multiple tattoos, have known for years that I am bisexual and regularly play/watch dnd. I know my parents wanted to protect me but the more you try to shield and control kids the more curious and rebellious they become. I'm sure I would have ended up this way anyway because all of these attributes are a true expression of self but maybe i could have avoided some of the mental health struggles and guilt I still suffer with decades later.
Wow... Really a sad recollection. But, know that you're not alone if that helps. We've had a number of people give similar reflections. We appreciate you sharing this. Hopefully, others will learn from it.
I've been playing D & D for nearly 40 years, and I've never had the urge to get into cults or devil worshipping. I've always enjoyed playing the game. I am a Christian, and I only play D & D as an outlet. To me, all it is is just people using their imaginations. If that's a crime, then maybe they should close down Hollywood, or stop authors from writing books. Or for that matter, using your imagination should be labeled as a crime. What do you think?
Interesting. Members of my mother's family often seemed to equate imagination with evil. It could be movies, books, plays, whatever - if there was something outside the mundane, it was bad and dangerous. Imagination use as a crime? I don't think such a future is completely outside the realm of possibility.
So this Chick guy mixed dnd and the X-Men. Ms. Frost... The Hellfire Club's White Queen. The guy couldn't even keep his genres straight.
Both genres were about fighting evils not worshiping.
If someone is going to fight for their beliefs, go with facts, not covers
Stay cool guys!
Chick Tracts are a fantastic source of religious propaganda and good for a laugh or two. My parents were very religious and frequented the local Christian book store where I discovered my first Chick Tracts back in the 70’s and 80’s. Scared the crap out of me! After reading “This is Your Story“ (perhaps the most infamous and proliferated tract), I was sure my soul was doomed. Chick had a way of convincing you, the reader, that you better give your life to Christ or you were sure to burn in the lake of fire for all eternity.
Years later, I have a massive Chick Tract collection. They should be filed under “horror” with all my other horror comics. They still scare the crap out of me all these years later.
You might also want to check out the “Satan’s Master” Chick Tract as it actually references the 1st Edition DMG as a legitimate source for knowledge of the positive material plane. Chick saw the DMG as a real occult book.
You may want to also track down an early printing of “Dark Dungeons” as it includes some text that was later removed for unknown reasons (slander?). It claims books by Tolkien and C.S. Lewis are occult books and should therefore be burned along with your D&D books.
If you haven’t seen the movie adaptation of “Dark Dungeons,” you simply must. It was produced with an ok from Jack Chick and is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. Even Cthulhu makes an appearance!
ruclips.net/video/LADLv1803Vw/видео.html
By the way, great show! Insightful and entertaining. Your two videos on the Satanic Panic made me subscribe!
Thanks for all of the recommendations! I just watched the first few minutes of the first episode and it's definitely something I'll have to watch all the way through. We appreciate the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
So glad I saw your comment. I just watched episode 1 of Dark Dungeons and part of 2, and I'm dying here. (Sarcasm: If only I 'knew' that D&D WAS actually SATANIC) 😛
Thankfully, here in the UK, people never went in for this nonsense, or evangelical Christianity in general. I don't know anybody who goes to church, or anyone who is even religious. We've mostly moved on.
Same here in Australia. I started in 1978 (year 7). Satanic panic never took root here.
I think that for those of us who have Jesus Christ and His teachings as our reference point for living, the casting of spells, demonic intrigue and many other aspects of D & D are not commended in the scriptures or healthy for the spirit that is desiring to walk in the Light of Jesus ... using the power & gifts the Spirit for others benefit is the better way.
It's not real Sparky
Very strange, I thought I commented on that previous video but I guess I didn't.
Are you going to do anymore 3d printing of dice jails?
We've had a major printer break down. We hope to have some in the next few months. Thanks for asking.
You don't know what Rifts is?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifts_(role-playing_game)
It's the most insanly OP TTRPG ever made.