No one's even talking about how this impacts coop boss events. The old start was to just get 4 bens asap so that you had enough money for the ridiculous coop boss health scaling, and now with this change its much worse because with the hero xp split the bens will not reach level 11, or reach it so late that it won't make any impact anymore. I think that was the true intention behind this change.
The issue there is not ben being weaker, the issue is that he's practically required in the first place. It should allow for a variety of strats, not just quad ben.
I think the intentions were more around making Ben stronger as a sole income source but worse with farms, so it was more to nerf to boss fights as a whole, not specifically multiplayer boss events, although they are probably hit the hardest by the changes.
as a ben 'main' i enjoy the change i always thought the early game with ben was a bit too easy because he payed himself off so quickly and later in the game his income wasnt enough im glad of that change
im the opposite. ben is by far my most used hero but if you are picking him to go for farming strats those late game rounds are a cakewalk anyway and the extra cash is completely worthless. on the flip side, he used to give you so much snowball and early money to be able to defend and farm pretty safely. the change feels lame. hes also significantly worse in co op as a result but im not sure how much that matters to you.
Correction: You don't have to place him. The game doesn't force you to place a hero. Plus you your money can't get below 0$. So “ Negative money “ makes no sense at all.
@@JogginClown It's because the Bloon trojan makes Moabs and other bloons like rainbows not spawn children bloons. Normally he's supposed to give cash but on chimps you just get nothing. It's actually better to have him hide behind an obstacle to block is line of sight so bloon trojan doesn't work
short version: boss: less money early game makes snowballing cash harder regular gameplay (r. 40-80): helpful for clearing the tougher bloons, biohack makes the cheap defences like sub super strong. Extra money isnt really that noticable until round 70+ Impoppable: Absolutely, a little less money early game, but makes rounds 80+ a cakewalk with the flood of cash. You can probably afford super mines eithout even trying Chimps: the best hero, solos a bad
But how? The whole thing about Chimps is that you can't make money outside of popping? There is no way Ben is the only tower out of everything to bypass it.
I think a very interesting question to ask the math is - since level 11 Ben starts giving significantly more money, how much money is Ben worth investing into - if any at all - to reach level 11 faster
It's fairly simple. 1000 minus whatever he makes on level 10 multiplied by the number of rounds earlier you get it. If he nake 80 at level 10, and you'll get level 11 1 round earlier, that means investing 920 into it is breaking even, anything less is turning a profit.
My friend and I tried using him to get a paragon in magic monkeys only, and we found it was often worth power leveling him over getting more t4 druids despite their qol update. Granted, jungle druid farming without banana farms is about as inefficient as it gets, but it's still kinda neat imo
The real question is *how much* worse is he for boss events? To me, it's an important question because Boss Events are, speaking from experience, extremely difficult for newer players, and anything that hurts them could be the breaking point between many people between being able to beat them or not, especially Elite Bosses. Geraldo isn't really viable for newer players while bossing because he requires a lot more knowledge about things like fertilizer efficiency, knowing to save straight for NFT + Geraldo at the same time, knowing when to sell NFT, and since they're new, their farming likely won't be good enough to buy *back* the NFT, costing them tens if not hundreds of thousands, which is DPS tier 5 or even paragon money.
That is a good question. I didn't want to plant a flag for how much worse he got because I wasn't sure myself. After a few more weeks of boss events with him I bet we'll have an answer.
I find Ben ONLY being viable for IMF farming that's it. NK makes to many changes for their own good Ben was at a good point why try to fix something that absolutely didn't need to be. There's 11 other heros and 23 other towers that could've been looked over.
@@SHHDADDYSWORKN No offense to NK, but their attitude towards balance is almost humorously chaotic IMO. One patch, they're all like "I'm just a _silly_ guy and I balance based on funny coolness! Everyone gets better damage overtime, Carrier darts have homing, ability farmers activate all at once, and Dark Champion projectiles are all bouncy now! How fun!" Then in the next patch they're all like: " *I'm going to kill every tower and hero you love,* and if you thought previously nerfed towers would be spared from our wrath, we'll give them a second bullet (nerf) just to be sure."
I feel like half the patches are for the new/average players, and half the patches are to nerf tryhards which just ends up making it harder for everyone@@hadesKIU
Couldn't of stated it any better man I completely agree it's just ridiculous. I wouldn't have so much negative things to say if I didn't love this game. I feel bosses were at their peak about a year ago right before the addition to lt/lc and discord servers were very active and BAM just like btd battles 2 it died I hardly see the normal top 10 players on the LB anymore for bossing. And the people that "loved" the new game modes are never on there anymore. You think hind sight would be 20/20 for them but nope who cares what constructive criticisms their loyal fan base has to say!
I only will If say the increase in money is more than the cost Like say a level up costs 50 money and increases his income by 75, there’s no reason not too But I’m far from a pro bloons player or anything
The only time I ever buy levels for Ben is to get Skimming (the level where he starts generating 1$ per bloon spawned) as the amount spent is about equal to the amount received on certain maps (because of the different leveling from map difficulties) about when he’s less than 100 dollars to manually level up.
Ben is overall worse for boss events especially before tier 1. By the time ben reaches 5k per round you should easily be making 100k+ a round and the reduced snowball in the early game means that ben's later levels don't have much of an impact. Ben is still the best hero for early game farming by far though and makes around 10k-15k more than geraldo with good farming.
0:13 oh god that's a lot of farms. How much can be made by round 100? I'm trying candy falls for a high round run in general, got 1.3M with full merchantmen strat and only a few farms.
i like the change alot just because it fits the curve to later game and can genuinely help when you have little to no room for farms on a few maps, not to mention the fact that you can purchase his later levels a bit sooner so you can hit that powerspike at 11 sooner is a genuinely good idea now instead of an afterthought for other heroes
As a Ben main I hate what NK is doing to Ben, the farming hero isn't even worth it anymore, geraldo can be better, I just hate how useless Ben is even with this
as a filthy casual i really appreciate the change. i like that i'm able to more comfortably place Ben as my only form of farming and see dividends in the later rounds. He feels less like the tower you use to start a snowball and more like the hero you use so you can get the benefits of econ without the micromanagement.
At first he would make me like 100K by round 200, around when i would lose because me and my coop buddy suck. Now he makes me close to 400K by round 200. I think he makes more money.
Probably won’t see this but boss events don’t always have unlimited farms or monkeyopolis in the current bass event as of weighting this is true along with no paragons in these specific boss events I feel like Ben is better
Imma be honest I think this change makes Ben more reliant on banks, which is ironically NK's reasoning for the early game nerfs. Like yeah Ben doesn't pay himself back sooner, but they didn't touch his bank bonus, so just place a bank or two and all of the sudden nothing changed.
as someone who doesnt particularly having more than one farm usually; ben being crazy money maker is really cool to me too bad ill probably still stick with ezili most the time cause i like ezili
Instead of thinking about percentages and stuff like that You can just think about the fact that new Ben loses at max $3000 (assuming you have him stuck at level 3 for 100 rounds) lol
I love th8s change, it nerfs his snowballing for bosses, which is op so i understand, but makes him still super useful and relevant in the op farm meta
I simply think he is more logical. Juse like damage heroes scale with their dps, Ben scales way more... even if the overall change might make him worse.
Every time you can afford to manually upgrade him, you should so if you click on him and see he needs like 900 or less for next upgrade do it You will make it back in no time
so basically, if your goal is not purely to get the most amount of money as fast as possible, hes far better now, i like that, i almost never go full farming unless im playing with friends, and much less do i go for top paths either, so geraldo is useless in the farming front for me.
If you were to max upgrade ben, how long would it take to recoup the money? I feel like there may be a legitimate reason to upgrade ben at certain points. Ben might have a new meta
I see this as big nerf. Ben helps you get snowball rolling on the boss events, that is why he is picked in a first place there. They basically took away his nieche and made him compete with geraldo on his own turf. And gerry steamrolls him there. As you said, at the time he starts to make bank, you already got bank at home.
I know this will sound as heresy for BTD6 purist but, ever since they nerf his early money making, and only for boss events, I just spend Monkey Money to level Ben immediately to level 10.
this is a HUGE nerf cause making more money mid-late game is completely irrelevant, he's just an early game snowball machine but he deserves it, as he's literally the best hero in the game by a long shot
ben finnaly unjammed his atm machine
Ben finally became the atmosphere machine
Lmao, it only took him like 5 years
@@HbombEngi Finally Does His Work After 5 Years
It does take him the first few levels to pay off the reparation fees, though.
@@Hbomb he finished a hacking school and learned how to farm
No one's even talking about how this impacts coop boss events. The old start was to just get 4 bens asap so that you had enough money for the ridiculous coop boss health scaling, and now with this change its much worse because with the hero xp split the bens will not reach level 11, or reach it so late that it won't make any impact anymore. I think that was the true intention behind this change.
But if there's a guy with MK "all heroes get more XP for a hero placed" he'll upgrade around the same(i think boss events allow MK)
The issue there is not ben being weaker, the issue is that he's practically required in the first place. It should allow for a variety of strats, not just quad ben.
@@Ne_Ne_Vova_UAnot really, it doesnt fully make xp split do nothing
I think the intentions were more around making Ben stronger as a sole income source but worse with farms, so it was more to nerf to boss fights as a whole, not specifically multiplayer boss events, although they are probably hit the hardest by the changes.
as a ben 'main' i enjoy the change i always thought the early game with ben was a bit too easy because he payed himself off so quickly and later in the game his income wasnt enough im glad of that change
Same here.
I barely ever used ben, last time, was 2019 lol. So I might take him on after these changes.
im the opposite. ben is by far my most used hero but if you are picking him to go for farming strats those late game rounds are a cakewalk anyway and the extra cash is completely worthless. on the flip side, he used to give you so much snowball and early money to be able to defend and farm pretty safely. the change feels lame. hes also significantly worse in co op as a result but im not sure how much that matters to you.
You know this really ruins his CHIMPS potential. Now instead of making negative money, he makes negative money
Nice
Negative money? You just mean he doesn't make money?
@@JogginClownNegative money, you have to place him down losing money.
Correction: You don't have to place him. The game doesn't force you to place a hero.
Plus you your money can't get below 0$.
So “ Negative money “ makes no sense at all.
@@JogginClown It's because the Bloon trojan makes Moabs and other bloons like rainbows not spawn children bloons. Normally he's supposed to give cash but on chimps you just get nothing. It's actually better to have him hide behind an obstacle to block is line of sight so bloon trojan doesn't work
short version:
boss: less money early game makes snowballing cash harder
regular gameplay (r. 40-80): helpful for clearing the tougher bloons, biohack makes the cheap defences like sub super strong. Extra money isnt really that noticable until round 70+
Impoppable: Absolutely, a little less money early game, but makes rounds 80+ a cakewalk with the flood of cash. You can probably afford super mines eithout even trying
Chimps: the best hero, solos a bad
reading your comment almost takes as long as watching the whole video /s
Yes, he can solo chimps
But how? The whole thing about Chimps is that you can't make money outside of popping? There is no way Ben is the only tower out of everything to bypass it.
I think a very interesting question to ask the math is - since level 11 Ben starts giving significantly more money, how much money is Ben worth investing into - if any at all - to reach level 11 faster
It's fairly simple.
1000 minus whatever he makes on level 10 multiplied by the number of rounds earlier you get it.
If he nake 80 at level 10, and you'll get level 11 1 round earlier, that means investing 920 into it is breaking even, anything less is turning a profit.
My friend and I tried using him to get a paragon in magic monkeys only, and we found it was often worth power leveling him over getting more t4 druids despite their qol update. Granted, jungle druid farming without banana farms is about as inefficient as it gets, but it's still kinda neat imo
The real question is *how much* worse is he for boss events?
To me, it's an important question because Boss Events are, speaking from experience, extremely difficult for newer players, and anything that hurts them could be the breaking point between many people between being able to beat them or not, especially Elite Bosses.
Geraldo isn't really viable for newer players while bossing because he requires a lot more knowledge about things like fertilizer efficiency, knowing to save straight for NFT + Geraldo at the same time, knowing when to sell NFT, and since they're new, their farming likely won't be good enough to buy *back* the NFT, costing them tens if not hundreds of thousands, which is DPS tier 5 or even paragon money.
That is a good question. I didn't want to plant a flag for how much worse he got because I wasn't sure myself. After a few more weeks of boss events with him I bet we'll have an answer.
I find Ben ONLY being viable for IMF farming that's it. NK makes to many changes for their own good Ben was at a good point why try to fix something that absolutely didn't need to be.
There's 11 other heros and 23 other towers that could've been looked over.
@@SHHDADDYSWORKN No offense to NK, but their attitude towards balance is almost humorously chaotic IMO.
One patch, they're all like "I'm just a _silly_ guy and I balance based on funny coolness! Everyone gets better damage overtime, Carrier darts have homing, ability farmers activate all at once, and Dark Champion projectiles are all bouncy now! How fun!"
Then in the next patch they're all like: " *I'm going to kill every tower and hero you love,* and if you thought previously nerfed towers would be spared from our wrath, we'll give them a second bullet (nerf) just to be sure."
I feel like half the patches are for the new/average players, and half the patches are to nerf tryhards which just ends up making it harder for everyone@@hadesKIU
Couldn't of stated it any better man I completely agree it's just ridiculous. I wouldn't have so much negative things to say if I didn't love this game. I feel bosses were at their peak about a year ago right before the addition to lt/lc and discord servers were very active and BAM just like btd battles 2 it died I hardly see the normal top 10 players on the LB anymore for bossing. And the people that "loved" the new game modes are never on there anymore.
You think hind sight would be 20/20 for them but nope who cares what constructive criticisms their loyal fan base has to say!
I saw somewhere someone asked an important question of whether and when it's favorable to buy levels for Ben.
I only will If say the increase in money is more than the cost
Like say a level up costs 50 money and increases his income by 75, there’s no reason not too
But I’m far from a pro bloons player or anything
That's gonna be a lot of math to figure out. Give if a week I'm sure someone is going to do an analysis on it
The only time I ever buy levels for Ben is to get Skimming (the level where he starts generating 1$ per bloon spawned) as the amount spent is about equal to the amount received on certain maps (because of the different leveling from map difficulties) about when he’s less than 100 dollars to manually level up.
Of course, because what desperately needed a buff was end game farming.
(I think this change kind of sucks)
Ben is overall worse for boss events especially before tier 1. By the time ben reaches 5k per round you should easily be making 100k+ a round and the reduced snowball in the early game means that ben's later levels don't have much of an impact. Ben is still the best hero for early game farming by far though and makes around 10k-15k more than geraldo with good farming.
0:13 oh god that's a lot of farms. How much can be made by round 100? I'm trying candy falls for a high round run in general, got 1.3M with full merchantmen strat and only a few farms.
3:00 terrible place to put that
ben is a better solo farm but worse with other farms
Answer? I really don’t know for I have an iq of 3
Lmao. Depends on what you're doing.
Normal games: No
Boss Events: Slightly
i like the change alot just because it fits the curve to later game and can genuinely help when you have little to no room for farms on a few maps, not to mention the fact that you can purchase his later levels a bit sooner so you can hit that powerspike at 11 sooner is a genuinely good idea now instead of an afterthought for other heroes
Dude I love the cult of the lambs music in the background of every video
As a Ben main I hate what NK is doing to Ben, the farming hero isn't even worth it anymore, geraldo can be better, I just hate how useless Ben is even with this
They should have just buffed his late game and left his early game alone
I feel like paying to level Ben up is finally worth doing, since the increase to income is so staggering, it's like investing in a bank or something.
Basically Geraldo is now even more of a monster for Boss events, comparatively
Nice
Thanks
as a filthy casual i really appreciate the change. i like that i'm able to more comfortably place Ben as my only form of farming and see dividends in the later rounds. He feels less like the tower you use to start a snowball and more like the hero you use so you can get the benefits of econ without the micromanagement.
THIS, this ben balance change is so damn welcome to me
Just switch to Geraldo now because of the nerf lol
Dawg if you have the monkey knowledge the change doesn’t even matter
At first he would make me like 100K by round 200, around when i would lose because me and my coop buddy suck. Now he makes me close to 400K by round 200. I think he makes more money.
Probably won’t see this but boss events don’t always have unlimited farms or monkeyopolis in the current bass event as of weighting this is true along with no paragons in these specific boss events I feel like Ben is better
so you're telling me he makes spirit of the forest turbo cash without having to pay sotf turbo's price tag? sounds like a buff to me
Its always worth it to pay for ben to level up if its cheap now
His early game got hurt, yes, but his mid-late game is insane now. I can easily afford expensive T5s in round 70-80.
Imma be honest I think this change makes Ben more reliant on banks, which is ironically NK's reasoning for the early game nerfs. Like yeah Ben doesn't pay himself back sooner, but they didn't touch his bank bonus, so just place a bank or two and all of the sudden nothing changed.
When’s the break even point if you have the level 3 hero knowledge?
what's this music from? sounds very familiar
as someone who doesnt particularly having more than one farm usually; ben being crazy money maker is really cool to me
too bad ill probably still stick with ezili most the time cause i like ezili
I hear cotl music in a btd6 video
This is a simple math equation, just plot a round vs total cash made line and where they cross is where new ben is better. Ninja kiwi fd up.
but you need to account for the gain you could have made if you invest in farms. money now > money later
@@llamus8432 Farms are a regular thing. You invest farm money back into farms.
why did they f up??
I'm not sure it's good. It's super mid
What is modding in these debuffs?
cult of the lamb music goes hard
Instead of thinking about percentages and stuff like that
You can just think about the fact that new Ben loses at max $3000 (assuming you have him stuck at level 3 for 100 rounds) lol
when does this changes come out?😅
I love th8s change, it nerfs his snowballing for bosses, which is op so i understand, but makes him still super useful and relevant in the op farm meta
I simply think he is more logical. Juse like damage heroes scale with their dps, Ben scales way more... even if the overall change might make him worse.
Hey HBomb, should I make a Bloons Supermonkey remake on scratch?
Every time you can afford to manually upgrade him, you should so if you click on him and see he needs like 900 or less for next upgrade do it
You will make it back in no time
so basically, if your goal is not purely to get the most amount of money as fast as possible, hes far better now, i like that, i almost never go full farming unless im playing with friends, and much less do i go for top paths either, so geraldo is useless in the farming front for me.
Would this be a hero you would spend money to get him leveled up quicker?
All and all it makes ben easier to use casually but weakens him in min maxing strats. I also know that ur live rn but ima sleep for tonight
bro only got a paragon on round 97? Ive gotten one on round 79 without it even being a boss event
Me on 73 but not to bully please don't hate me
uhhh I think he made 800 not 80
Is anyone going to mention energizer and how it affects bens leveling?
Hmmm im slowly getting back to btd6 after months lmaoo😂
So now skimming is most of his early game income instead of the end of round
I absolutely hate the early game changes I will never use Ben if I have gerry as the alternative.
100 th like 😂
i like to think ben makes least tier boss easier
18 min ago and early
you didn't mention how it would work in least tiers/cash boss events, that's the one comparison i don't see in any videos about this change
I didn't even think about that!
The least tiers events will be a buff then
I just realised the song in the Background is the OST for Cult of the Lamb 😅😂🧌
As player 3, i am happy with benjamin changes
If you were to max upgrade ben, how long would it take to recoup the money? I feel like there may be a legitimate reason to upgrade ben at certain points. Ben might have a new meta
I accidentally found a time like that in a run. $400 to make him hit level 11 a round early.
@@Hbomb I bet there are more chances for it.
@@Hbomb If you get me the numbers I can make a table
It just works.
I love hbomb
Is ben good now?
He's actually a bit worse, but still good.
I see this as big nerf. Ben helps you get snowball rolling on the boss events, that is why he is picked in a first place there. They basically took away his nieche and made him compete with geraldo on his own turf. And gerry steamrolls him there. As you said, at the time he starts to make bank, you already got bank at home.
Me who "sets and forgets" Ben and cba to farm: absolute win
Ben makes way more than Geraldo
Sounds like somebody played Cult of the Lamb!
5 min gang
Huge
First
Nobody cares!
@@Bentheman24 Bro YOU care
@@SomeRand0mNerd 🧢
@@Bentheman24 You comment on every comment mentioning they’re early, don’t act like you don’t care
@@SomeRand0mNerd I must. Also I don’t. Nobody does 🤦♂️
I know this will sound as heresy for BTD6 purist but, ever since they nerf his early money making, and only for boss events, I just spend Monkey Money to level Ben immediately to level 10.
31 seconds ago is crazy
Nobody cares!
@@Bentheman24about you
@@KogasaTatara514 no u
@@Bentheman24 meanie :(
@@NikName9O *true :)
this is a HUGE nerf
cause making more money mid-late game is completely irrelevant, he's just an early game snowball machine
but he deserves it, as he's literally the best hero in the game by a long shot
Remember that one fact where they said he’s an ethical hacker?
He’s in his villain arc now