As a tinker spammer here are some tips for countering him: In lane, avoid standing next to creeps, laser aoe is small and if you are ranged you can make it very difficult for him to use laser effeciently. Especially beware of standing next to the range creep. Try to have a lane ward when he hits 6, if he lasers and you have a way to interrupt tp or rearm he is very vulnerable. Finally ensure you have sustain, the only way for tinker to kill you is for you to make a mistake and/or underestimate his damage. If you keep your hp high enough there isn't really a play tinker can make on you. Just don't let your salve get rocketed, it's the oldest trick in the book. Also be weary of diving towers once he's hit level 6. I can't tell you how many games i popped off because i could tp in, get a double kill and tp back mid with 0 effort. Always try to stagger stuns, tinker just wants to cast rearm, keep your stuns for that, there is very little point in chainstunning him unless you're alone and he has hex, or he has bkb ready. Every second you can hold your stun while he tries to run away barefoot might as well be a stun. Also make use of his tp duration before you interrupt it. The best way to make his game really hard is to control the vision game, obvs easier said than done, but even as a support you can do a lot to make his game harder. A tinker ward can get you a free kill. Ambushing tinker requires patience, don't chase him around the map, wait somewhere where he could tp, and he probably will tp there at some point soon. If you can make him scared of sidelanes he will soak up a ton of farm from his own team. Having a lane ward in sidelanes around minute 7 can also help you dodge his blink timing. Euls is a nice way to interrupt rearm, dispel matrix, save yourself from rockets and remove laser blind. Glimmer is a cheap way to save your team from rockets, break permahex and protect yourself. Shivas can give you vision if he's hiding in trees. Obvs aeon disk, abysal, lotus, bkb+refresher, hex, nullifier are all good. A pocket smoke can also save you from cheap rocket kills in the early game. Most of the hero counters are obvious (zeus, spectre, bara, nyx, AM, NS, pugna, storm, batrider, the voids etc), but don't underestimate how ridiculously hard a support with two stuns and a blink can screw him over if they jump him at the right time. Venge is a very underrated counter: he can't just burst her if she has ags, she gives vision, has two stuns and can pierce bkb while also bringing him into your team for follow up. Lots of tinkers stack ancients or the camp nearest mid t2, its a good place to check for him early on as he will often be smoked up there on very low hp. I really hope they remove the matrix cd reduction talent tbh. Bkb is a meh item on tinker because the stats aren't worth much and he can't rearm it. Cdr doesn't belong on the hero imo, its clunky and out of place, and makes long cd items that can't be rearmed too viable when that should be a weakpoint for the hero. Obvs it's a good talent, but who wants tinker to be meta. It should be a hero played well by a handful of people, not just anyone that decides to pick it up, it's too obnoxious to play against for that. Also it's boring for me, 30% of the fun of the hero is adapting your items to the game. Counters are a great excuse to buy euls, force staff, sb, lotus etc, which are more fun to use. No one ever even uses the fucking shard when that is probably why valve added the rearm cooldown in the first place. Furthermore bkb removes so much of the skill needed to play the hero. You just bkb and blink on the enemy casting spells, no careful consideration of vision, no keeping an eye on stunners and staying out of their reach untill they use stun, just bkb and press your buttons lol. I don't mind if they nerf his numbers, but i will be annoyed if the make it so you can't cast shivas during rearm, because that adds a layer of skill expression. I can not wait till people stop buying bkb on this hero every fucking game. A decent nerf could be making matrix only block magic damage so he can't blink as easily during bkb. Also remove eblading yourself and then pressing bkb, wtf is that shit. The only good thing about tinker being meta is people get used to playing against him, which is more fun than going 22-0 because the enemy won't so much as place a tinker ward. Also valve pls stop giving the hero scifi abilities ffs. Every single one of his spells use to be a real scientific thing, now he has a shrink ray and ooh geometric magic shield and teleporty grenade. Cmon man, i liked the fact that he was the science guy.
His aghs and shard can't help him scale to be a better hero while the enemy team only need to buy 1 pipe to cancel 4.200 + 1.400 worth of gold. I think valve should buff his ult and add some physical damage talent to give enough space of exploration outside magic build.
Thank you for starting from the lier tiers. Makes these lists so much more interesting. It's just as important to know why a character is bad, along with why another is good.
I main void spirit and i agree, specially they removed the spell amplify at 15 i think and the additional damage on his 2nd skill shard which really changed my playstyle as a void spirit. Before that "adjust" i was able to dominate mid lane hard matchups once i hit 6 and and snowball harder with the early-mid game burst potential but now its just like so slow to play him. You need to condition the enemy hp before u burst and kill them unless they are squishy supports. Really sucks hope they bring back his mid game potential.
I've been loving Meepo recently. Just started to learn him. 2-3 Wraith Bands means that the clone can go off and farm medium/large camps with Ransack while your main Meepo can get what he can out of the lane. Alternatively you can shut down other heroes just by using both your clone and main hero mid. Fast Boots of Travel + Blink + level 11 makes you a huge global threat, along with a farming machine that early on. From there, just farm, don't get cocky, and win with Scythe Skadi.
@@mrlabeouf9002 Yeah, I've got it a few times now. It's so damn good against Sand King. Juggernaut it screws with too. I've been going Wraith Bands, Travels and then Blink. After that, first item is either Hex, Skadi or Aghs.
@@twelvesevven4678 Boots of travel are going to be a liability if you are climbing the ratings, so try to move away from them most games. You can also skip blink, it's a pretty situational item, going for dragon lance or 3 wraith bands before skadi/aghanim's/hex and just buying shard instead. Try silver edge, diffusal, manta, euls, those are pretty good situationally also.
I really like brew mid Vs illusion cores or summons, no one thinks of him as a mid, but his ult is a free kill unless you're against a hyper mobile mid, and the ability to have passive magic resistance + armour and a way to shove mid, it's really easy to lane with
Pretty sure TA aghs is the most underrated item in the game, but just going right click and destroying people with physical damage is so strong you rarely use it lol. At least at my MMR if I pick TA at the right time it’s a free game.
yeah ta aghs is good but he is wrong. he said her winrate is good - she is the hero with one of the worst winrates right now 44%, removal of small camp was bad
The passive is pure damage, you can two to three shot people in the late game with psi blades, if you go for aghs I'll just immediately report you, especially since travels is half the price and more useful.
Really good video! I’m saying this from low bracket player perspective but Wind ranger is really underestimated. You go for maelstrom, aghs and you can provide for your team soo much. Early game you can easily gank other lanes because of wind run and when you get aghs you can scout areas like Riki, solo kill anybody and really make enemy carry’s life miserable. And after bkb, Daedalus, blink and lvl 25 talent, you just turn into killing machine and hunt everybody down. And just a tidbit for the end, you can use your ult on buildings and destroy it before anybody notice.
As a Lina spammer I'm happy that it's finally my time to shine. I don't think she's really that busted, maybe it's just the meta. Lina hasn't really had many changes, apart from the BIG one that made her need to hit creeps. She can be countered but the other heroes that are good against her, just aren't good in the meta right now.
I'm playing Unranked in the shit-tier MMR range, but ever since Ethereal Blade got the recipe changed to be a Kaya upgrade, I've been clowning around with playing Oracle as a fun semi-joke mid pick to catch people off guard if the enemy draft lets me get away with it. In the right comp, it seems to work really well. Generally brown boots -> Kaya -> Aether Lens -> E-Blade, and just shit out massive nukes in early teamfights. Still get the value point in W for the heals and surprise saves against magic burst, and of course you can combine Fate's Edict with Eblade to save an ally from both magical and physical damage at the same time. Force early tower pushes with the ridiculous sustain pumping out heals in the down time, and give the other core just enough time to come online and clean up as you begin to fall off. I initially started doing it as basically a joke, but I'm beginning to wonder if it could potentially be genuinely good. Had one game where I did Oracle Mid and had a safelane SF who was just owning, and I found he was a really good target to pair up with because he does both rightclick and nukes, so I'm not griefing him if I disarm him or eblade the enemy, because he can still kill shit without right clicks with the razes and ult. I'm not sure how well the idea would hold up in higher MMR brackets, but I am curious about it.
27:28 abso-fuckin-lutely, finally someone said it. For real, I genuinely don't think they have ever tested any new on-hit neutral item on Pango Swash when they get added. Lance of Pursuit, Brigand's Blade, Dragon Scale, Mind Breaker, Ench Quiver, Witchbane, Penta-Edge, StygDes - there's literally a broken neutral item in EVERY SINGLE TIER and that's before stuff like Tumblers, Pupils Gift, CereRobe and all the others that are just generally good on that type of hero
Hey jenkins I have a suggestion: can you please along with the tier videos post your hero_grid_config.json from you game user data in a pastebin? Maybe sanitize it by removing layouts that aren't important to the video (just the layout talked about in the video) so people can embed the layouts easily into their grids? I know people can look at the video and redo the layout in like 5 mins but pasting the file in a pastebin is super fast as well lol
It's funny to see Void Spirit as the only shit tier hero on the list as I've won 12/15 games I've played as Void in the last 2 months. His points are valid though, I usually win by ganking the enemy carry over and over again and making space for my carry. Void hits his big power spike early when pipe usually isn't built
Jenkins is objectively wrong tho, void spirits winrate isn't that bad, infact it's better than all 3 of the midlaners he mentioned in s tier, so u can still play void.
@@dinerjm8784 I agree, and was about to point that out. No way Lina is an S tier, shes way too clunky and squishy to be S tier, takes way to long to come online now and has a ton of counters. Legion? Void Spirit? Sniper? Pango? OD? There goes your Lina's game down the drain. Any bkb-piercing disable like magnus or pudge are a fucking nightmare when you are playing Lina, especialy after her E rework when you are extremely vulnerable whenever you try to build up stacks for the passive. I've also seen people talk about she "dominates every lane" wich is ridiculous, shes awful for last hitting, especialy agains other rangd cores like Sniper or Invoker, they just destroy her in lane, and not even talking about OD who just ruins her already terrible mana problems. She's very dependent on draft, dont have a tanky offlaner or a reliable initiator? Well now your fucked, madam Lina. Her abysmal winrate across all brackets is undeniable proff the hero is not S tier at all, right now, i'd put her at C tier, or maybe B+ in a good draft.
After they nerfed and removed Pugnas ward giving this magic resistance thing, they introduce Wraith Pact.. basically the same idea. We can assume this global stacking resistance is OP and they should have known.
All I learned in this patch is the midlane is the worst place to be. No small camp to farm. Enemy mid is so good at denying, controlling runes, and killing me all the time. Fuck mid I'm out.
Jenkins have you seen that invoker build where they skip midas and go treads witch blade with high levels of alacrity? It can man fight anything, it's like an sf ganking with dd rune
Hey, Jenkins, I really like your tier lists and I would love to see the ones for carrys which is my favourite pos and offlaners which are my second. Greetings from Cuba
Tinker imo is the most broken hero in the game right now and his top1-2 winrate on dotabuff confirms it (talking about divine/immortal tier). I think rework for this hero is way overdue, simple nerfs aren't cutting it anymore.
Invoker- shard+80%+ meteor dmg + ghost = you can kill BB easily and most hero on the game in less than 5 second assuming you hit the combo meteor defeading eblade + hex ( no necessary)
What about clinkz? Jenkins can you tell me please i am right now 2k mmr and I have been playing clinkz mid. On mid I have a right now 8 wins and 1 loss. I feel like he might be really good, but it might be because I am playing in low elo. May you give your thoughts on this matter?
I just started playing dota and i am having lots of fun playing Pugna. Is it worth maining him? Cause i want to spam him but im scared he would be bad in ranked
I think Invoker has very high capability and high potential so imo he's above B tier a think, coz this hero really depends on how efficient the player is using him
Anyone got a good take on dusa mid? I am total trash but I still feel like every game I just trade farm with the other mid, I build relevant items and just get stronger than the other guy
What do you think about mid Sand King and mid Broodmother? Yeah, they are kind of niche mids but not "super duper rare herald" kind of niche, I've seen a number of pros practicing it
Brood destroy every melee midlaner, and ranged heroes that doesn't have aoe spells for spiders. She's so strong this patch, you can't kill her with her Q
Brood even wins against shaker because unless he starts ulting spiders alone or you are just bad, there are very few combos that kill her. But I guess it's kind of a boring hero to play, same reason you don't see chen often.
Yeah the instant stun in melee form is cool, but another thing is how dk counters puck's playstyle in the early-midgame Puck likes to harass the shit out of the enemy mid with orbs and rightclicks but you are not gonna harass a dk to a point where he cant lane if both sides play correctly, so puck doesnt get any significant advantage early on. 6 minutes onwards, puck likes to get power runes and rotate. Dk can either take the mid tower with ult or rotate to where the puck goes and catch him with the aforementioned instant stun, kinda forcing puck to take bad choices unless if someone fucks up Midgame onwards, dk gets blink and uses his instant stun to catch and kill the puck thats either baiting for his team or split pushing. Puck at all stages of the game lacks the damage to kill dk if they have equal farm
Hmn. Personallly, I think SB, Nature's Prophet and Wraith King are pretty strong mids because they pressure and take the lane very quickly when the enemy leaves and also take control of the map quite quickly as well.
in pubs, it is hit and miss, by that I mean, is your team going to farm or going to gank a lot and control the map, cus your hero relies on that... your item build allows you to sustain, soak damage, but if your team doesn't want to fight... you are screwed, you won't be able to farm as quick as the enemy cus they built farming items, then you get desperate, you try to make plays on your own and you get surprised by wards/sentries 3 man on top of you and you end up feeding :) ...
All in all, I want to say the following never build the same items every game... look at your team, look at your enemy, adapt your items, as a bh you can do that :) And if you insest on going hood/van remember you are only benifiting yourself since you havent completed them, your team wont get any value, i pref finishing a pipe vs nukers or crimson vs physical + the aghs, another route that you can test is not building pipe nore cimson, try aether into octa + hopefuly cdr/castrange nuetral item, this will allow you to dish out more damage from a distance, not caring about gems and being able to track safely from afar too, eh all in all depends on the game, gl and hf.
@@frederickmueller7916 well, just go and kill then. His ultimate is the farming ability, you just farm heroes instead of creeps. If you're mid and you lost ofc the game will be hard but the decisions to mitigate the snowball is what matters depending on your rank.
Honestly, Lina might just be broken. At least in the average pub. For a long time now it feels like IceFrog has been pointing his balancing finger at Lina and then at the community and saying 'I WANT YOU TO PLAY THIS SPELLCASTER as A SPELLCASTER - Stop right clicking' yet, with the latest aghs/shard changes. Now she's not only STILL an insane right clicker, but now has the option to be insane spellcaster too. So how is it balanced to have a hero that totally dominates the lane, farms fast, clears waves, roams decently and scales monstrously. ON top of the fact you can't counter her damage with a single resistance type. Yeah she is squishly, but not really after bkb, satanic. This hero is the complete package for solo carrying games. Her ONLY real weakness is survivability and you basically itemize to mitigate that.
she s squishy, needs positioning, and I m sorry but if you have a pudge or a Spirit breaker against you, as a Lina + bkb, you have to play with vision to jump on them before (and buy a linken s sphere + eventually bkb)
@@KidTrigger qop pango players sucks below ancient rank necro is very bad mid laner, oracle is high elo support, and since when mars doing mid? i am talking about mid 1v1 scenario
@@KidTrigger who knows man, i know im not in immortal bracket yet but im a mid lane spammer and wennever i mid silencer i feel very strong 90% of the mid lane heroes cant lane against a decent silencer.
I disagree with Lina tbh, i feel like her aghs change was more of a nerf rather than an upgrade, because now she needs to be a mid player more. But will try this build again if it's good. Also, I feel like the 7 hit count for her third skill was such a major nerf too. I hope they change her again
Useless :)))))))))... a simple forcestaff or a pugna support deletes him... ya ya you are getting +20 kills in your avg low mmr games, this doesnt happen in high mmr.
As a tinker spammer here are some tips for countering him:
In lane, avoid standing next to creeps, laser aoe is small and if you are ranged you can make it very difficult for him to use laser effeciently. Especially beware of standing next to the range creep. Try to have a lane ward when he hits 6, if he lasers and you have a way to interrupt tp or rearm he is very vulnerable. Finally ensure you have sustain, the only way for tinker to kill you is for you to make a mistake and/or underestimate his damage. If you keep your hp high enough there isn't really a play tinker can make on you. Just don't let your salve get rocketed, it's the oldest trick in the book. Also be weary of diving towers once he's hit level 6. I can't tell you how many games i popped off because i could tp in, get a double kill and tp back mid with 0 effort.
Always try to stagger stuns, tinker just wants to cast rearm, keep your stuns for that, there is very little point in chainstunning him unless you're alone and he has hex, or he has bkb ready. Every second you can hold your stun while he tries to run away barefoot might as well be a stun. Also make use of his tp duration before you interrupt it.
The best way to make his game really hard is to control the vision game, obvs easier said than done, but even as a support you can do a lot to make his game harder.
A tinker ward can get you a free kill. Ambushing tinker requires patience, don't chase him around the map, wait somewhere where he could tp, and he probably will tp there at some point soon. If you can make him scared of sidelanes he will soak up a ton of farm from his own team. Having a lane ward in sidelanes around minute 7 can also help you dodge his blink timing.
Euls is a nice way to interrupt rearm, dispel matrix, save yourself from rockets and remove laser blind. Glimmer is a cheap way to save your team from rockets, break permahex and protect yourself. Shivas can give you vision if he's hiding in trees. Obvs aeon disk, abysal, lotus, bkb+refresher, hex, nullifier are all good. A pocket smoke can also save you from cheap rocket kills in the early game.
Most of the hero counters are obvious (zeus, spectre, bara, nyx, AM, NS, pugna, storm, batrider, the voids etc), but don't underestimate how ridiculously hard a support with two stuns and a blink can screw him over if they jump him at the right time. Venge is a very underrated counter: he can't just burst her if she has ags, she gives vision, has two stuns and can pierce bkb while also bringing him into your team for follow up.
Lots of tinkers stack ancients or the camp nearest mid t2, its a good place to check for him early on as he will often be smoked up there on very low hp.
I really hope they remove the matrix cd reduction talent tbh. Bkb is a meh item on tinker because the stats aren't worth much and he can't rearm it. Cdr doesn't belong on the hero imo, its clunky and out of place, and makes long cd items that can't be rearmed too viable when that should be a weakpoint for the hero. Obvs it's a good talent, but who wants tinker to be meta. It should be a hero played well by a handful of people, not just anyone that decides to pick it up, it's too obnoxious to play against for that. Also it's boring for me, 30% of the fun of the hero is adapting your items to the game. Counters are a great excuse to buy euls, force staff, sb, lotus etc, which are more fun to use. No one ever even uses the fucking shard when that is probably why valve added the rearm cooldown in the first place. Furthermore bkb removes so much of the skill needed to play the hero. You just bkb and blink on the enemy casting spells, no careful consideration of vision, no keeping an eye on stunners and staying out of their reach untill they use stun, just bkb and press your buttons lol. I don't mind if they nerf his numbers, but i will be annoyed if the make it so you can't cast shivas during rearm, because that adds a layer of skill expression. I can not wait till people stop buying bkb on this hero every fucking game. A decent nerf could be making matrix only block magic damage so he can't blink as easily during bkb. Also remove eblading yourself and then pressing bkb, wtf is that shit.
The only good thing about tinker being meta is people get used to playing against him, which is more fun than going 22-0 because the enemy won't so much as place a tinker ward. Also valve pls stop giving the hero scifi abilities ffs. Every single one of his spells use to be a real scientific thing, now he has a shrink ray and ooh geometric magic shield and teleporty grenade. Cmon man, i liked the fact that he was the science guy.
Epic comment, wish it gets recognised more, ty for sharing! p.s. I hate tinker players
Batrider destroys tinker the most, cant lane, ult pierce bkb, laser does no shit, just run at him
@@VT-ih3is very true, will add to the list
@@vibesmcgoodson768 thanks for that information. One of the few long comments i read until the end
I'm an absurd Tinker spammer, this is one of the most true and entertaining comments I've read on RUclips, I agree with everything
Biggest nerf for mids like mag kotl necro and kunkka was the removal of the small camp
good riddance
fuck kotl mid players
Yeah, since then whenever I play kunkka I just feel really weak, it makes sense that the small camp was a big part of that
yeah very true
@@jenkinstierlists9871 yooo it's jenkisn love you
Then my mid picks alchemist like its 2018 wtf
RIP Void Spirit. Have not played him in a while now since im not winning with it. I guess its just not me who feels the hero is shit.
Hero is ok, there are more items to purge debuffs now and people just got used to him
👆That means the hero is shit. If everyone knows your weakness and you can't do the things you used to do, how can the hero be OK?
@@oldbot64 everyone knows puck and sniper weaknesses, heroes that have been around since forever
Doesn’t mean they’re not good
I feel like doing no damage w him even when ahead, got other similar mid can do better
His aghs and shard can't help him scale to be a better hero while the enemy team only need to buy 1 pipe to cancel 4.200 + 1.400 worth of gold. I think valve should buff his ult and add some physical damage talent to give enough space of exploration outside magic build.
Thank you for starting from the lier tiers. Makes these lists so much more interesting.
It's just as important to know why a character is bad, along with why another is good.
I main void spirit and i agree, specially they removed the spell amplify at 15 i think and the additional damage on his 2nd skill shard which really changed my playstyle as a void spirit. Before that "adjust" i was able to dominate mid lane hard matchups once i hit 6 and and snowball harder with the early-mid game burst potential but now its just like so slow to play him. You need to condition the enemy hp before u burst and kill them unless they are squishy supports. Really sucks hope they bring back his mid game potential.
I've been loving Meepo recently. Just started to learn him. 2-3 Wraith Bands means that the clone can go off and farm medium/large camps with Ransack while your main Meepo can get what he can out of the lane.
Alternatively you can shut down other heroes just by using both your clone and main hero mid.
Fast Boots of Travel + Blink + level 11 makes you a huge global threat, along with a farming machine that early on.
From there, just farm, don't get cocky, and win with Scythe Skadi.
You really need the aghs tho. Unless you are below 3k mmr
@@mrlabeouf9002 Yeah, I've got it a few times now. It's so damn good against Sand King. Juggernaut it screws with too.
I've been going Wraith Bands, Travels and then Blink. After that, first item is either Hex, Skadi or Aghs.
@@twelvesevven4678 Boots of travel are going to be a liability if you are climbing the ratings, so try to move away from them most games.
You can also skip blink, it's a pretty situational item, going for dragon lance or 3 wraith bands before skadi/aghanim's/hex and just buying shard instead.
Try silver edge, diffusal, manta, euls, those are pretty good situationally also.
I really like brew mid Vs illusion cores or summons, no one thinks of him as a mid, but his ult is a free kill unless you're against a hyper mobile mid, and the ability to have passive magic resistance + armour and a way to shove mid, it's really easy to lane with
Pretty sure TA aghs is the most underrated item in the game, but just going right click and destroying people with physical damage is so strong you rarely use it lol. At least at my MMR if I pick TA at the right time it’s a free game.
yeah ta aghs is good but he is wrong. he said her winrate is good - she is the hero with one of the worst winrates right now 44%, removal of small camp was bad
The passive is pure damage, you can two to three shot people in the late game with psi blades, if you go for aghs I'll just immediately report you, especially since travels is half the price and more useful.
@@guiguito5505 Travels lol, u buy aghs on ta to cut waves and farm ancients. You just a global presence.
Really good video! I’m saying this from low bracket player perspective but Wind ranger is really underestimated. You go for maelstrom, aghs and you can provide for your team soo much. Early game you can easily gank other lanes because of wind run and when you get aghs you can scout areas like Riki, solo kill anybody and really make enemy carry’s life miserable. And after bkb, Daedalus, blink and lvl 25 talent, you just turn into killing machine and hunt everybody down. And just a tidbit for the end, you can use your ult on buildings and destroy it before anybody notice.
Great video as always, Officer Jenkins. Can you please make a tier list of position 5 supports?
As a Lina spammer I'm happy that it's finally my time to shine. I don't think she's really that busted, maybe it's just the meta. Lina hasn't really had many changes, apart from the BIG one that made her need to hit creeps. She can be countered but the other heroes that are good against her, just aren't good in the meta right now.
I'm playing Unranked in the shit-tier MMR range, but ever since Ethereal Blade got the recipe changed to be a Kaya upgrade, I've been clowning around with playing Oracle as a fun semi-joke mid pick to catch people off guard if the enemy draft lets me get away with it. In the right comp, it seems to work really well. Generally brown boots -> Kaya -> Aether Lens -> E-Blade, and just shit out massive nukes in early teamfights. Still get the value point in W for the heals and surprise saves against magic burst, and of course you can combine Fate's Edict with Eblade to save an ally from both magical and physical damage at the same time. Force early tower pushes with the ridiculous sustain pumping out heals in the down time, and give the other core just enough time to come online and clean up as you begin to fall off.
I initially started doing it as basically a joke, but I'm beginning to wonder if it could potentially be genuinely good. Had one game where I did Oracle Mid and had a safelane SF who was just owning, and I found he was a really good target to pair up with because he does both rightclick and nukes, so I'm not griefing him if I disarm him or eblade the enemy, because he can still kill shit without right clicks with the razes and ult.
I'm not sure how well the idea would hold up in higher MMR brackets, but I am curious about it.
27:28
abso-fuckin-lutely, finally someone said it. For real, I genuinely don't think they have ever tested any new on-hit neutral item on Pango Swash when they get added.
Lance of Pursuit, Brigand's Blade, Dragon Scale, Mind Breaker, Ench Quiver, Witchbane, Penta-Edge, StygDes - there's literally a broken neutral item in EVERY SINGLE TIER
and that's before stuff like Tumblers, Pupils Gift, CereRobe and all the others that are just generally good on that type of hero
Hey jenkins I have a suggestion: can you please along with the tier videos post your hero_grid_config.json from you game user data in a pastebin? Maybe sanitize it by removing layouts that aren't important to the video (just the layout talked about in the video) so people can embed the layouts easily into their grids? I know people can look at the video and redo the layout in like 5 mins but pasting the file in a pastebin is super fast as well lol
Techies and silencer are also very good mid laners
It's funny to see Void Spirit as the only shit tier hero on the list as I've won 12/15 games I've played as Void in the last 2 months. His points are valid though, I usually win by ganking the enemy carry over and over again and making space for my carry. Void hits his big power spike early when pipe usually isn't built
Jenkins is objectively wrong tho, void spirits winrate isn't that bad, infact it's better than all 3 of the midlaners he mentioned in s tier, so u can still play void.
@@dinerjm8784 I agree, and was about to point that out. No way Lina is an S tier, shes way too clunky and squishy to be S tier, takes way to long to come online now and has a ton of counters. Legion? Void Spirit? Sniper? Pango? OD? There goes your Lina's game down the drain. Any bkb-piercing disable like magnus or pudge are a fucking nightmare when you are playing Lina, especialy after her E rework when you are extremely vulnerable whenever you try to build up stacks for the passive. I've also seen people talk about she "dominates every lane" wich is ridiculous, shes awful for last hitting, especialy agains other rangd cores like Sniper or Invoker, they just destroy her in lane, and not even talking about OD who just ruins her already terrible mana problems. She's very dependent on draft, dont have a tanky offlaner or a reliable initiator? Well now your fucked, madam Lina. Her abysmal winrate across all brackets is undeniable proff the hero is not S tier at all, right now, i'd put her at C tier, or maybe B+ in a good draft.
You winning in your herald brakcet doesn’t mean anything
Cant agree more with the statement about Ar1Se . That guy is a beast with Magnus on every patch
Jenkins: Everyone builds pipes, lotuses and greaves now.
Heralds: We don't think so.
i think u kinda underrated pugna, having a safe sieger is kinda insane in the current meta, lens u can just sit near a tower and blast it all day
Don’t even need lens anymore to slow siege after the cast range buffs but with it you are even safer
Thanks Jenkins, hope you're having a very Merry Christmas bro!
Bloodstone has always been one of my favorite items so I'm glad it's back
its funny, that as much as we learn and know about the game, we still dont know, and will never know, the names of the neutral items XD
Jenkins hair is so beautiful it breaks time-space continuum
After they nerfed and removed Pugnas ward giving this magic resistance thing, they introduce Wraith Pact.. basically the same idea. We can assume this global stacking resistance is OP and they should have known.
Which neutral item are you talking about at the end? 28:00 - It skips here.
Lance of Pursuit, Brigand's Blade, the Silence on attack item, the % of max mana as damage item (with purge)
basically
Tier 1: Lance of Pursuit
Tier 2: Brigand's Blade
Tier 3: Mindbreaker
Tier 4: Witchbane
Tier 5: well, anything there honestly works nice with Pango. either damage, utility, or mobility (probably except Pirate Hat)
@@Mugetsu192 Witchbane is still better than most T5 on Pango though...
@@cannypride8191 yeah agreed the only good teir 5 for pango is fallen sky
@@billymaverick3327 In certain circumstances yes but I also often forget to use it when needed Xd
i want to see more insane games. but i love the info.
Really appreciate these videos, helps out every big patch
I'd like to add LC, dude can't die on lane then just tp for duel.
Void spirit just needs a good buff his new shard is kind of useless imo. Its like they were lazy to thing of something
All I learned in this patch is the midlane is the worst place to be. No small camp to farm. Enemy mid is so good at denying, controlling runes, and killing me all the time. Fuck mid I'm out.
No mid is better it’s easier to stomp the lane now
Jenkins have you seen that invoker build where they skip midas and go treads witch blade with high levels of alacrity? It can man fight anything, it's like an sf ganking with dd rune
Great video, but will you do carry one?
Hey, Jenkins, I really like your tier lists and I would love to see the ones for carrys which is my favourite pos and offlaners which are my second. Greetings from Cuba
As always, it is great voice to listen. Thanks, make more videos!
I wish you can make an offlane tier list, that will be awesome!
I love these jenkins. thanks so much
Thank you jenkins. Next I would need an anime tier list because I need to know what to watch after Berzerk. Thanks in advance
Tinker imo is the most broken hero in the game right now and his top1-2 winrate on dotabuff confirms it (talking about divine/immortal tier). I think rework for this hero is way overdue, simple nerfs aren't cutting it anymore.
guys, the best build for huskar is ags, eblade and dagon(oneshot combo)
Invoker- shard+80%+ meteor dmg + ghost = you can kill BB easily and most hero on the game in less than 5 second assuming you hit the combo meteor defeading eblade + hex ( no necessary)
Look how my boy void spirit got massacred☹️
Thank you for the insight, Jenkins.
What about skywrath mage? What is his tier for the mid? ty
very good tierlist jenkings keep up the good job
Best Christmas present is a jenkins vid
nice channel and videos very helpful and informative
Is this your only channel? I like the content you make and wanna see more!
I've never used the term 'representation' before but more Visage representation! :(
What about clinkz? Jenkins can you tell me please i am right now 2k mmr and I have been playing clinkz mid. On mid I have a right now 8 wins and 1 loss. I feel like he might be really good, but it might be because I am playing in low elo. May you give your thoughts on this matter?
I just started playing dota and i am having lots of fun playing Pugna. Is it worth maining him? Cause i want to spam him but im scared he would be bad in ranked
He is worth maiming. He’s a flexible pick and he’s not that common of a pick so a lot of people will pick stuff that you can own against as Pugna
If you have fun with Pugna, play with Pugna, you'll enjoy the game more
I think Invoker has very high capability and high potential so imo he's above B tier a think, coz this hero really depends on how efficient the player is using him
I wonder why Hoodwink is not included in this list. He is super strong on his 6 and can easily kill mid or easily gank sides.
Because he has the support hp is like when rubik wins mid because of his nuke but then the rest of the game the support enemy solo him :/.
can i ask why sange and kaya for ember when his skills are physical damage?
28:18 Complete list
Anyone got a good take on dusa mid? I am total trash but I still feel like every game I just trade farm with the other mid, I build relevant items and just get stronger than the other guy
What do you think about mid Sand King and mid Broodmother?
Yeah, they are kind of niche mids but not "super duper rare herald" kind of niche, I've seen a number of pros practicing it
Brood destroy every melee midlaner, and ranged heroes that doesn't have aoe spells for spiders. She's so strong this patch, you can't kill her with her Q
Brood even wins against shaker because unless he starts ulting spiders alone or you are just bad, there are very few combos that kill her.
But I guess it's kind of a boring hero to play, same reason you don't see chen often.
what map texture u got?
Dear tier list man, please mention my favorite hero Oricool in your next list. It will make me happy, and give me nether hardness.
Love
Captain
My GF says jenkins looks like Steve from Stranger Things. Getchu that ice cream parlor outfit boy.
haha
Honest noob question: what does Dragon Knight do that counters Puck? Is having a quick stun a hard counter to Puck?
Yeah the instant stun in melee form is cool, but another thing is how dk counters puck's playstyle in the early-midgame
Puck likes to harass the shit out of the enemy mid with orbs and rightclicks but you are not gonna harass a dk to a point where he cant lane if both sides play correctly, so puck doesnt get any significant advantage early on.
6 minutes onwards, puck likes to get power runes and rotate. Dk can either take the mid tower with ult or rotate to where the puck goes and catch him with the aforementioned instant stun, kinda forcing puck to take bad choices unless if someone fucks up
Midgame onwards, dk gets blink and uses his instant stun to catch and kill the puck thats either baiting for his team or split pushing. Puck at all stages of the game lacks the damage to kill dk if they have equal farm
@@Chris-lb4wx Thanks for the detailed response.
When your favorite hero is so good hes not even in the list (‘:
Need tier list for pos 5 master jenkins for my herald friends who can’t play carry
Invoker not in Z tier is a insult to every Peruvian out there losing lane and doing nothing for the entire game
Have you ever tried silencer in this meta? I think it is solid.
Hmn. Personallly, I think SB, Nature's Prophet and Wraith King are pretty strong mids because they pressure and take the lane very quickly when the enemy leaves and also take control of the map quite quickly as well.
What do you guys think about bounty hunter mid, rush hood/vanguard for laning then straight to scepter
I did this a lot last patch. You usually win midlane and snowball of that. But you have no waveclear and can't farm if the game goes poorly.
in pubs, it is hit and miss, by that I mean, is your team going to farm or going to gank a lot and control the map, cus your hero relies on that... your item build allows you to sustain, soak damage, but if your team doesn't want to fight... you are screwed, you won't be able to farm as quick as the enemy cus they built farming items, then you get desperate, you try to make plays on your own and you get surprised by wards/sentries 3 man on top of you and you end up feeding :) ...
All in all, I want to say the following never build the same items every game... look at your team, look at your enemy, adapt your items, as a bh you can do that :)
And if you insest on going hood/van remember you are only benifiting yourself since you havent completed them, your team wont get any value, i pref finishing a pipe vs nukers or crimson vs physical + the aghs, another route that you can test is not building pipe nore cimson, try aether into octa + hopefuly cdr/castrange nuetral item, this will allow you to dish out more damage from a distance, not caring about gems and being able to track safely from afar too, eh all in all depends on the game, gl and hf.
@@frederickmueller7916 gondar is ganking hero not farming
@@frederickmueller7916 well, just go and kill then. His ultimate is the farming ability, you just farm heroes instead of creeps. If you're mid and you lost ofc the game will be hard but the decisions to mitigate the snowball is what matters depending on your rank.
Honestly, Lina might just be broken. At least in the average pub. For a long time now it feels like IceFrog has been pointing his balancing finger at Lina and then at the community and saying
'I WANT YOU TO PLAY THIS SPELLCASTER as A SPELLCASTER - Stop right clicking' yet, with the latest aghs/shard changes. Now she's not only STILL an insane right clicker, but now has the option to be insane spellcaster too. So how is it balanced to have a hero that totally dominates the lane, farms fast, clears waves, roams decently and scales monstrously. ON top of the fact you can't counter her damage with a single resistance type. Yeah she is squishly, but not really after bkb, satanic. This hero is the complete package for solo carrying games. Her ONLY real weakness is survivability and you basically itemize to mitigate that.
She is balanced your judtnherald lol so easy to gank
@@varanisshouyou4379 who tf buys blade mail lmao your herald lol that item is garbage
Dude wrote a whole essay
@@R3dPeel no he didn’t it’s just a regular comment
she s squishy, needs positioning, and I m sorry but if you have a pudge or a Spirit breaker against you, as a Lina + bkb, you have to play with vision to jump on them before (and buy a linken s sphere + eventually bkb)
What tier is techies?
I don't see how huskar can be c tier. He's literally the tankiest mid, with one of the highest dps. His only fall is his MS
how to win sf playing as lina?
How did Jenkins age 10 years in one week? Tf 💀
PLEASE DO MORE
I wakeup early morning and watch sumail playing Kotl mid 😂
I can pick slark mid for ember and counter easily
also ursa
@@lalakutila7036 yes, if slark pounce ember cannot use ultimate or sleight of fist
@@vishalnp26 ursa with diffusal ez kill ember
@@lalakutila7036 yea, you gotta wait until that
Wow imagine palying slark mid you lost the game herlad
you should try merci mid. counters everyone except od and viper
counters razor ?
counters void/ember/earth/storm ? .... puck/qop ? / invoker ?
Marci counters pango, windranger, necro, puck, ember, void, storm, qop, oracle, shadow demon, aa. Mars,silencer? Intresting
@@KidTrigger xd
@@KidTrigger qop pango players sucks below ancient rank necro is very bad mid laner, oracle is high elo support, and since when mars doing mid? i am talking about mid 1v1 scenario
I really liek your videos jenkins
Good video! I got a lot of insight! But what do you think of none memeing techies mid?
Do Position 1 - Safelane Carry next please
Ember is 46% winrate in general , and even in 6k+ he is under 50% , no way he is S tier
good videos!
no silencer mid? wtf? he can literally destroy most of the mid laners
No he can’t silencer midnis so weak so easy to gank by pos 4
@@varanisshouyou4379 he needs farm hes one of the bast damage dealers late game can literally 3-4shot anyone
@@KidTrigger who knows man, i know im not in immortal bracket yet but im a mid lane spammer and wennever i mid silencer i feel very strong 90% of the mid lane heroes cant lane against a decent silencer.
@@varanisshouyou4379 silencer offlane? Lol herald
@@kaelinvoker8331 so why do you speak if your not even immortal you proved your horrible at dota lmao
22:46 venomancer Jenkins
uselessmancer :)))))))))))
Clinkz not mid hero anymore? Cause u didn't mentioned him
do another vids please about pos 1,3,4,5
I disagree with Lina tbh, i feel like her aghs change was more of a nerf rather than an upgrade, because now she needs to be a mid player more. But will try this build again if it's good. Also, I feel like the 7 hit count for her third skill was such a major nerf too. I hope they change her again
Can you feature oracle mid? Is it in meta right now?
It's shadow demon
That's topson meta
Where is my venge mid MR. Jenkenis?
Didn't see Earth Spirit in this list. Absolutely disrespectable.
No one can lane vs Silencer mid after lvl 5 too much dmg
Huskar
Viper.
Has anyone else tried ench mid with an aghs rush? I won 10 in a row at divine 3 playing it
Sumail destroying OG and Secret with KotL.
Someone explain to me as to why jenk ins has separate channel for tierlists? hehe
have 2 channels more money
When offlane 7.32d?
can i ask where is skywrath mage in the tierlist
Useless :)))))))))... a simple forcestaff or a pugna support deletes him...
ya ya you are getting +20 kills in your avg low mmr games, this doesnt happen in high mmr.
No techies?
no
@@jenkinstierlists9871 y
u forget techie mid which is the one to burst enemy soo early
Why are you not talking about the dual diffusal blade meta over in China?
It stacks?
@@oldbot64 Chinese mid laners are rushing 2x diffusal
@@talananiyiyaya8912China is very weak region now bro so many good players retired no one follows their meta anymore
No weaver?
You're dam right Meepo is strong
my MMR thanks u jenkins