I loved the thermostat design. I could fill the cooling system and let the coolant circulate . Then reinstall the thermostat. All within 5 minutes. This contrasts with trying to purge the air from most engines.
I had two steel bolts in my aluminum thermostat housing (83 Cutlass Ciera sedan). When I had to change the thermostat, corrosion made the bolt head break off. Had to run to the JY to get another thermostat casting.
@@logicthought24 Truth be told, it wasn’t really a bad engine for its say as far as reliability when compared to its predecessor- the Vega engine and its successor-the 2.3 QUAD 4 . The Quad 4 was more powerful. But a lot less reliable. Also, it was more reliable when compared to some of the offerings from other companies such as the Chrysler produced 2.2 engine and especially the 2.6 Mitsubishi produced engine used as the optional engine in the Chrysler K cars. The 2.2 was decent. But it would blow a head gasket if you looked at it wrong. The 2.5 main problem was valve cover gasket leaks and the fact that it was LOUD and rough. It would get you where you needed to go. But you wouldn’t enjoy the trip.😂
@@logicthought24 I think one of the other problems was that they put the engine in cars that were simply too heavy for it. It was decent in the Monza and its clones. It was decent in the X bodies. But when they put it in the A bodies, it was overworked.
You can see why the imports were worried about these cars and how they sold so well to start. On the surface they look great. Comfortable with good space and handsome styling. The designers did their job very well. Then the bean counters ruined them. I wish today's small cars were more like big cars, like these were.
I had a radio remote broadcast to do and it was a nice day, so I loaded everything up into my 1982 Citation X-11. Everything fit with more than enough room to spare. The car attracted a lot of college student attention. First, because they had never seen one. Ever. Second, it atsounded them on how much space was in what is now a very small exterior package.
This is actually a really good engine. I have one in an 85 S10 that's never had a major overhaul and that ol engine don't do nothing but run & run & run & I don't think you can even blow it up just by driving it because it's been thru absolute hell abused even and never so much as a breakdown other than the in tank fuel pump. You see what I believe the problem is, is that engineers didn't have ANYthing to do with that filter, or that cap, or any of that other crap. Because the Engineers designed and built that engine to be run LONGITUDINALLY, Not Transverse. Everything after that you can't blame the engineers, if I measured you up for a tailored shirt that fit you like it grew off you then after you got out the door walked down the road and got to your house you took it off and stretched it up over your ass, legs thru the arm holes, would you walk in the house and go "I don't know what the hell that idiot was thinking when he designed these Shorts, they dont fit worth a Fuck!"
I had a 82 olds omega all the way to 2005. I totally rebuilt the 2.5 in 1996. Oil filter, cock the wheels to the left and reach thru the passenger wheel well, easy. I found the distributor cap was easier to get from underneath. I never had issues with steering rack. I had 2 fuel injectors that went bad in the ten years after rebuild. It was a daily no nonsense to and from work beater with a heater that was super cheap on parts since all the post office trucks had these in them for a while.
Adam, all of our GM front wheel drive cars had "morning sickness" from the steering rack in those days. I was in the Service Department at an Olds dealership from 1985 til 1990. Our OE racks were strictly made from an aluminum housing. The power piston would seize in the aluminum bore after last use, and, if you didn't know about this, your first attempt to turn the steering wheel might require a pipe wrench to break it free, and then it was good for the rest of the day. All replacement short gears were rebuilt with stainless steel sleeves to take care of the problem. I've been in some situations with these cars that created a tremendously dangerous opportunity to maneuver. Another infamous problem with these cars was the TCC solenoid that would stick and stall the vehicle when exiting from a freeway. Even worse was the cheap AC fuel pump that would get hot from a long drive, develop excessive resistance, and then stop working. A few minutes or a few hours later, the vehicle would drive with no problem. After dropping the tank, you would find the fuel pump electrical contacts had turned brown due to overheating. Not so good inside of a fuel tank, AND get over the battery change. Enjoy changing a battery in a later Chrysler Corp. vehicle where the battery is installed in the bottom of a front fender!
Power steering pumps were common failure. Try getting one to the side of the road when you steer one handed due to driving with hand controls,, murder on shoulders.
@@KentTeffeteller That's why i POSTED THE 1980'S FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE CARS were junk. I'm glad, Toyota, Honda, and Volkswagen kicked their ass. Corporate dickheads killed the quality of American cars in the 1980's.
Oh yes, I helped my dad change the morning sickness steering racks on our '86 Buick LeSabre and our '88 Pontiac 6000. It started out as morning sickness, but then they would start getting stuck even when hot, like when you're on the highway. A little unnerving when the road curves, you turn the wheel, have no power assist, and when you get some muscle behind it to stay in the lane, power steering suddenly comes back and you oversteer.
Glad you've got a 1984 car that still runs very well. If it still works - then keep using it. My family had a 1984 Honda Civic that we kept running for 30 years.
I had the Tech 4 in an 88 Fiero and while it doesn't have the distributor woes, the serpentine belt tensioner is an absolute nightmare. For whatever reason removing it opens up a huge hole in the water jacket, so you have to drain half the coolant before you can replace it, which then adds the fun task of burping the Fiero coolant system. On top of that they don't make the tensioner for the Fiero anymore so you have to get a customized Sunbird tensioner from Rodney Dickman which costs about 4x what a normal tensioner costs. The whole process was fairly horrible.
Brings back memories. I took my 85 grand am 2.5 to my mechanic in 91 for a full tunup. When picking up the car he complained about how hard it was to do. Said he had to put it on a lift, reach up and pull the distributor down at a wiered angle busting up his knukles in the process. I thought at the time it was just a tune up cant be that hard. But understand now. I have always remembered that discussion. Think about it when doing plugs and wires to this day.
Had the same year Grand Am and replaced the distributor myself. Extremely difficult to do in a driveway. Then at 61,000 miles the head cracked and coolant was getting into the combustion chamber. Pulled six heads off other engines and the one I had was less cracked than the other six. This has to be the worst engine GM ever made. The thermostat design was great though.
@@davidp8627 yep, had to get my head gasket done at 100k. Was not that bad, no warped head, just put a new gasket on. One issue was the head bolts were a bitch to get loose. Drove the car years after that. At 170k the car developed a rod knock that got really bad, was so noisy about to throw a rod. Dodge used car dealer gave me 100 dollars for the car. Put that towards the used car I bought there- 1990 Dodge colt. The colt ran good for years then hit a deer, and water stared leaking in the passenger compartment, in winter I would frozen water on the floor and frozen condensation on the inside of the windshield. Had to scrape the outside of the windshield as wee as the inside. That's when I gave up and said I'm not doing this any more. That year bought my first new car 2003 Honda Civic Lx, and drove that 20 years at 250 thousand miles.
I had a neighbor who had a vehicle with the Iron Duke and he loved it! It was a mid eighties Jeep CJ7! Easy maintenance. It wasn’t so much the engine, it was the vehicle engineers.
I worked at a dealer in the early 90's. another HUGE problem with that distributor was water would get in it and either kill the engine or keep it from starting. even a light rain would get the cap wet and the engine starts coughing, sometimes it would clear up but mostly it would get worse.
We had an '87 Buick Century with The Duke. At the time (around 1999/2000) I was working as a mechanic so when I did the tune-up, I put the car up on the lift and changed the cap and rotor from underneath.
Funny you mention GM A6 compressor and the pancake compressor. I was just thinking about that. I had an old Nova with factory A/C and the GM A6 compressor and the vents would get frost on them on a road trip. The A/C in our newer Toyota is very weak (NO it does not need freon/refrigerant). I realize those old compressors used more energy but who cares, when it's hot out I want cold a/c that can adequately cool the car in any weather.
My 1981 Eldorado had the R-4 (Radial 4-cyl) compressor, and even though it had a smaller compartment to cool than previous years, it was never more than adequate.
I've got an 08 Toyota, and I'm very happy with it. But... The A/C is adequate, barely, and nothing more. It works, well, adequately, but I'm still a bit disappointed in it.
@@eyerollthereforeiam1709 Same here. The A/C is our new Toyota sux and struggles to keep interior barely comfortable at anything over 80 degrees. If we lived in Florida I'd probably buy another car that has proven great a/c.
Don't forget, up until 1994 (or thereabouts), almost all automotive a/c systems used Freon 12 as a refrigerant. Its drawback was that it was claimed to damage the ozone layer, so the industry moved to R-134a. I believe that the new refrigerant is not as efficient at absorbing heat as the original Freon-12.
@@martinliehs2513 I understand but then the manufacturers should put in a bigger evaporator or do something to compensate. I'm telling you the a/c in our newer car is very weak, and in my opinion unsatisfactory.
We had an '88 Pontiac 6000 with a tech 4. It didn't have a distributor so that wasn't a problem, but it did have other mechanical issues. It had the small front brakes that wore out at 15k miles. The canister oil filter in the oil pan needed pliers to remove and always caused a mess. The belt tensioner opened the cooling system when you removed it and caused a mess if you didn't drain the radiator. The belt tensioner and alternator both failed at around 40k miles and again at around 80k miles.
Replacing a failed coil or ign module on the DIS system was almost worse. High mileage cars that were full of rust often times ment the tiny bolts would rust into the coils and break off in the module plate, sometimes flush. If you were being paid by book time, your day just got ruined.
Iron Duke.... Camshaft timing gear? Anyone remember that issue?? I do, changed many in the day.. They were a very reliable motor though. Would be better suited for a marine motor though. My opinion of course.
My former wife, as her first car, bought a '78 Chevy Monza with the Iron Duke. Bulletproof, indestructible! Air conditioning DELETE! 35 mpg. We drove that car cross-country on leave one year between SoCali & MI.
The serpentine belt on the mid to late 90s Rivieras are really fun withe the way they go THROUGH the motor mount, hope one never breaks when you're on the highway
I love your videos. Brings back memories of the different cars we were detailing back then for our customers and lot. There are always certain things that are a bit difficult, but back then they were made to be repaired, individual parts were, not throw away. Interiors were really easy to remove. All screws in plain sight, not hidden clips with plastic tabs that break off.
Had an '87 with the Tech IV. Engine had an unmistakably unique sound that you could hear coming a mile away with no mods and stock exhaust. Some might call it crude or unrefined, but it's music to my ears.
I had a few Dodges from this time period with the 2.2L engine. Plugs, distributor, alternator, and a/c compressor are all right up front and easy to service. Timing belt changes are also quite simple. What's not easy is the starter or the turbocharger, very difficult to change.
My friend had a Chevy Celebrity that he bought from a senior citizen, who had never changed the oil. I think it had about 70k miles on it. Took us an entire day. Similar color, too. Sounds smooth as sandpaper. Nightmares.
I had an iron duke in an ‘80 Pontiac Phoenix that I got good service out of. Ran it for about 4 years until I had trans problems. I ran the car hard everyday but kept clean oil in it and serviced it well all the time. It wasn’t fast by any stretch but it did what I needed it to do.
I bought my '80 new--actually ordered it in '79 and it took 6 months to make. I wanted a stick , and they weren't coming off the line very fast. Fuel economy was excellent, room was awesome, but it would not carry hills in 4th gear and that tranny was a dog. Could not keep synchros working. And it jumped out if gear often.
I had the 87 Buick Skylark with the 4tec version of that 2.5L engine. Changing the oil was a pain because it had the cartridge style filter inside the oil pan. However, there wasn't a separate oil drain plug to drain the oil first. You removed the large filter plug to drain the oil and get access to the filter. Could be very messy if you aren't careful. My car also had a power steering failure in that there was power assist when turning right but not left. My car was the same color of maroon / burgundy as your car. Mine was a 5 speed manual and I would get about 44 MPG on the highway. It had the digital dash as well. I loved that car but someone else decided I didn't need the car anymore and side swiped me and totaled the vehicle.
I had it in a '90 Grand Am, Mother in '86 Buick. Not a powerhouse, but the Iron Duke was enough and a reliable soldier, direct descent of the Blue Flame Six. On my throttle body unit, injector for the 2.8 V6 made a significant difference in performance. Upgrade the 3.1 with a 3.8 injector for similar results. Problem was it was designed for RWD, making it difficult to service in FWD application. Not only was the distributor back there, so was the often neglected oil filter. With dextrous hands and patience, the extra work can be avoided.
Nice to hear about the steering rack - I planned on changing the fluid in my A body. Good shape car overall. Steering feels great, light, and smooth, but the fluid is very dark. Reddish brown on a paper towel, but appears as burned chocolate milk in the reservoir.
I had a 1984 Iron Duke Celebrity. Other difficult and/or annoying repairs were the water pump and the factory AC lines that didn't have barbs on the fittings, resulting in refrigerant leaks.
I figured you were going to comment on Cadillac Shoehorning a V8 in their FWD cars in 1985 Thoughts of Homicide come to my mind, any time I have to work on any car after 1984.
I had one of them and I loved it. It was an 89 Sedan Deville with the 4.5 TBI. It wasn't difficult to work on at all for a front wheel drive. The car in this video looks far more challenging then mine. The drivetrain was very reliable and cheap to repair. It had lots of room all around, very comfortable interior, ultra quiet, super smooth, pretty reasonable fuel economy, and a bit of power. They came out with a 5.0 liter the next model year, and I always dreamed of what that extra boost would've been like to that big old car.
@@JoshuaDemersProductions I had a 90 DeVille with the 4.5 with SDFI, and then a 91 Fleetwoodm with the 4.9. Engines only had 9.5:1 Compression, but required Premium. Changing the HVAC Blower was a Pain, practically had to pull the Motor out to do so. That was why I made my Original Comment
Certain body styles with the 4.5 and 4.9s were indeed mighty packed in there. I recall several times having these cars coming in with misfires and finding the frt bank plugs changed, but rears were never touched...
@@JoshuaDemersProductions A 5 liter was Never put into the FWD Cadillacs. The RWD got the 5 liter in 1986, I had one of those, still my Favorite Cadillac, despite having No Power. While the 90 FWD with the 4.5 Never gave me issues, the 91 with the 4.9 did, the Transmission would do something weird and throw Body Code, so I don't think the Puny little Transverse Transmission in those Cars was very Good.
I remember lots of broken head bolts , the 3 by the exh manifold. Then they leaked coolant. Was difficult sometimes getting those dam bolts out. Good memories :)
Had an '86 Calais with the Iron Duke and it's the worst engine on any car I've owned. Blew a head gasket at 57,000 miles and ran so rough that you had to put the car in neutral to keep the dashboard from vibrating at stoplights. I've driven riding lawnmowers that felt more refined.
We ran hundreds of these engines in S10 fleet pickups. Inner city stop and go with multiple drivers. Very dependable. These trucks were abused daily. Only one engine failure and that was on a propane converted truck. Overheated and cracked the cylinder head. Replaced the head and converted back to gasoline no more issues.
1970 Triumph TR6-clutch change started with removing the interior including the carpet to remove the transmission tunnel, then transmission. The frame rails were too close together for the transmission to slip by.
I had two 2.5 Citations, an '84 and an "85. With no AC the distributor was very easy to get too. We had a '86 Ceutury with AC but it still wasn't ot hard to get to the Distributor. As for the Oil Filter, just turn the steering wheel all the way for a left turn. Sit on the floor and it is an easy reach to remove the Oil Filter. With thae small size I could twist it righ off with out a wrench. My Citations were 4 speed manual transmission and had plenty of power . I used them to pull a small boat all over the Pennsylvania mountains and never got in anyones way. I bought my '84 new and it had over 230,000 miles when I sold it to a guy that ran it over 300,000. I bought the '85 with only 169,000 and put over 40,000 on it.
Ah, your 84 Omega reminds me of my 85 citation with the Iron Duke 4cyl. Mine got great mileage and had the plus of being a 5dr hatchback with station wagon versatility.
@ 9:38 one of the first series of the Delco ETR Radios. No set button, you would pull the button out to set the station. Those sounded pretty good also
I once agreed to try and get Cimarron powered by one running... sitting in the middle of a business center's parking lot, on a freezing cold day. Trying to blindly reach around the block, only to change the plug wires, was a nightmare! Thankfully, the wire & plug change was enough to get it running. I forget what I told the father of the owner--who was a friend of my father... hence why I agreed to do the job--what I felt should be done in follow-up, but I never saw that car again... and damn glad the only other 'Duke I ever worked on was in my first truck: A fleet trim S-10, handed-down from my cousin.
The Cimarron was never powered by the Iron Duke. It initially had a 1.8L pushrod Chevrolet four cylinder, then a 2.0L version of the same engine, and finally a 2.8L V6.
Yep. Remember them well. Tech 88 thru 02. Timing gears were a suck job too. Best they did was DI, oil filter moved to the pan, serpentine belt accessories drive.
I drove one of these back in the day. It was a very comfortable car and that AC will blow frost out the vents when you turn it off. 80hp is a bit dated, but at the time it was enough.
I had a 1980 Oldsmobile Omega Brougham with the Iron Dike and a standard transmission; four speed if I remember correctly. Almost nothing about the car worked properly. AC never cooled adequately, transmission was like something out of a pickup truck, and it was delivered with an undersized piston - just to name a couple defects! Good looking car but a total lemon otherwise. That was almost forty-five years ago but I remember that disaster like it was yesterday. It spent most of its one year/12,000 mile warranty at the dealership. Never buy a first year GM product! LOL
Among the many reasons I love your content is that you bring attention to cars that are interesting yet overlooked elsewhere because they are not popularly regarded as cool or classic. I learned much about the Iron Duke -and enjoyed seeing this car (masterful packaging by GM in a medium-sized car…downright luxurious looking!) Thanks for the great content Adam!
The Iron Duke was originally a reverse flow head with the exhaust and intake on the same side. The distributer was accessible in that configuration. In 79 they went to a crossflow head and didn't do something about moving the distributer. That likely would have meant recasting the block.
Overall the Iron Duke wasn't a bad engine. It might be the best four cylinder GM has ever made. They did have a bad rep for oil sludge build up so you had to keep up with regular oil changes. They weren't powerful and had a buzzy sound but they did OK at highway speeds. Now I've heard that the Quad 4 engine was a royal headache to work on. A lot of mechanics hated that engine.
I was and am 1 of um. We used to call them the Quad w-hore.. Everything you could think about that could go wrong, did. What I will say is I got a chance to drive a Grand Am GT with the 190hp HO and a 5 speed. That car moved pretty good! ( but it was only a couple yrs old at the time..)
I had a 1983 J-body GM with their 1.8L engine that had the same style thermostat housing with cap. It was easy to work on…. And boy did it get worked on. The only other plus was its fuel injection. :)
The belt tensioner also closed off the coolant of red cuz the water pump/fan clutch was located there on the rwd config. Made a huge mess in the street of buddy's house changing the tensioner.
I had one of these in a S10. It had valve train issues. There was not enough room in the push rod gallery so if you replaced a valve push rod the side of it rubbed against the block until enough metal was worn off. This had to be good for the cam lobes!
Purchased an 84 fiero (auto) in june of this year. I've already tackled what i'd considered two of the worst jobs. First It's changing the v belts. Specifically the ac compressor belt(it was whining). The AC compressor is between the engine and firewall down low, but still above the cat. It has 2 pivot brackets. I kept having to get under the car, then hop back up to reach from above the engine. And then trying to tension the belt required me hooking a rachet strap off of one of the pivot brackets to one of the lift points under the car to get tension on it. And this job was done with jack stands and the tires off. The second job was the rear brakes, they still are not properly fixed. The parking brake actuator inside the caliper pistons have a wiper seal, one of mine is damaged and cannot be reused. I tried to find a replacement part but the manufacturer stopped producing them in 2016. So every Firebird, Fiero, 6000, and Camaro (just from my research there may be more) from 82 to 88 is SOL. For the time being I've gone with front brake calipers from a 6000 and they are working great. (Still have the old ones in case i find that part) Got wheel blocks for if I ever need to park on a hill. Maybe I'll try and swap the strut/hub assembly in the future to have a different parking brake system. Im not really sure if I want to go this route as this car is almost museum grade. Has minor issues with some interior and paint but everything else is factory.
The reason the distributor cap is so difficult to replace is because this engine was originally in a rear wheel drive application and was mounted 90° from its front wheel drive application. This was a problem with many early front wheel drive cars they were using rear wheel drive engines and things got shoehorned in inconvenient locations.
Harder to service than it should be: my 1975 Chevy Monza with the 4.3 litre V8 shoehorned into the Vega-sized engine compartment. Longitudinal mounted engine, with fartherst back spark plug on each side of the engine hidden beneath the firewall. The dealers didn't even have a special tool for changing those plugs, they had to unbolt the engine mounts and let the engine settle a bit into the subframe. Then you could get a socket onto those two back plugs.
My 86 Calais Supreme had the Tech 4. It was not labelled or called the Iron Duke. However, everyone calls them Iron Dukes which is not correct. The car was economical and we made many trips to Florida. I did have to replace the a/c compressor. The torque converter lock up switch failed, but was easily fixed. The oil filter was a little easier to replace on the N cars. We kept the car for 14 years and it covered 260,000 + kms. The only time it didn't start was one night in Oromocto, New Brunswick when the temperature fell to -40. Even the local tow trucks wouldn't start.
I had an 82 Camaro in High School with the Iron Duke. It had a rod knock so loud it sounded like a diesel and a 3 speed auto. The previous owner added insult to injury by slapping Iroc Z decals down the doors.
A few things. The welded sheet metal exhaust manifolds tended to crack in the center. They weld easily with a standard MIG welder running regular steel wire. Timing gears tended to wear on these engines making them clattery. It took a while for the aftermarket to come up with a tight tolerance fiber cam gear ( same gear set as the 230 250 292 Chevy inline 6 though most of the inline 6 engines used a aluminum cam gear ) I used to pull the cam out to change the gears but moved to threading the nose of the cam and using that to pull the gear into the cam. Early automatic X cars had a problem where the transmission oil pump drive would wear the splines and stop turning. This is an in the car fix with the updated drive. On this car, look behind the air cleaner , at the firewall. The speedo cable runs here with a coupler, this was a common " odometer delete " option. Other GM cars had a mechanical cruise control on the inner fender and the same " odometer delete " function.
Had an 1982 Chevy Citation with the 2.5 Iron Puke. Ended up with a bad water pump which in turn took out the head gasket. Drove it for 2 weeks with it like that. Sold it to a guy that wanted to swap engines. Got $800 for it, which was a lot of money back in 1992.
I got 32-33 MPG on the freeway, but only until the torque converter clutch wore out. For me it was about 85,000 miles. After that, freeway MPG was only about 25.5. The internet, RUclips and other people's experiences just were not available back then.
We bought one new in 1986 and put 245000 miles on it b4 it rusted so badly that we had to take it off the road. Have to agree with you about the distributor cap and oil filter. It also ate front brakes at an astounding rate until we started to use carbon metallic pads on it and that cured the brake problem. We love your channel. How do you manage to find so many wonderful cars. Do you have an inside track on a Florida retirement community? haha.
Your right, Fiero V6 has that pull thermostat. Prone to rust in all four shock towers in the rust belt. Had both V6 and Iron Duke, Citation, Phoenix, and a two door Omega Brougham; long before GM began to make 'em right. Everything you did tended to require disconnecting the motor mount. 🏁🇺🇸
Okay so, last 2.5L car I had was a 1985 Celebrity. I got so sick of messing with the distrubitor that I relocated the ICM to the firewall with a heatsync of its own. I just extended the pickup coils wires to reach it, and the actual plugs to it were able to move quite a bit from where they were. I mounted the ICM to an old Pentium 4 heat sync and its still working to this day
That is what I have planning to do with my iron duke now for many decades..ie move the ignition module to the firewall in my 1982 Camaro.. Good to hear another has done this. My 1982 distributor has its original 4 pin connector that is like the 1981 era..a replacement distributor has the wrong connector. So I have bought the rare spare distributors from a rebuilder in Los Angeles that is the only guy on the planet that has them. Anyway my new 1982 had its 1st ignition module fail at say 140k miles. Then one at roughly 250k. Then all newer ones have been junk and fail quickly. That's with the proper heat compound to heat sink it. One I installed a few years ago failed in 500 miles. Ridiculous So my plan is to move the module to a heat sink on the fender area of my camaro where I can add test points to check the dang thing. Regards
Very nice Oldsmobile! I have celebrity’s myself I’d say the hardest thing I’ve done is replace the camshaft gear it’s made of nylon and eventually breaks it presses onto the camshaft not an easy repair. Great video thank you!
My pick for a difficult car for repair: Chevy S10 / GMC Sonoma with the 2.2L fuel injected engine. The injectors are an absolute nightmare to replace; the engine was originally designed for FWD vehicles which would explain the difficulty.
Here's one for you Adam: While not a difficult job as far as accessibility goes, the placement of the engine oil filter on Chrysler small block V8s here in Australia in the local Valiant 'A' bodied cars can be a right pain to do a clean filter change. Because our cars are right hand drive, steering boxes are on the opposite side of the engine bay to U.S. models. Chrysler small bocks have the oil filter and boss right where the steering box is placed, so Chrysler Australia engineers devised two hard-drawn pipes from the engine oil filter boss up to a filter mount block on top of the engine, right next to the distributor. Unfortunately this makes the filter mounted completely upside down. This makes a clean filter replacement job impossible. Oil goes everywhere! The solution for me was to move the filter boss mounting block over to the side of the engine bay and run some flexible hydraulic type lines from the original lower filter boss up to it. It can be made neat, but certainly doesn’t look factory. But certainly makes oil changes much more pleasant! I must say Adam I really enjoy your channel, and watch every episode, even though quite a few of the cars you showcase are rare here.
My first car was a '76 Omega. It had a mini 8 cylinders which were actually very huge. One thing I never got was why they put the hood release inside the bumper so basically anyone could open it.
When you started it up I thought I heard the mail man lol My brother in law had a citation as a company car and it was as roomy as my 78 Malibu classic
An older GM article I had showed the R4 compressor was "belt ratioed" so you got 1 Ton of Air Conditioning output per 1000 Rpm of engine speed.. So at 3000 rpm engine speed you got 36000 Btu per hour cooling capacity. The R4 was marketed to other car brands. My brochure was from a SAE trade show in the early 80s. I think maybe Mercedes used the R4 sometimes ????
I had a 1980 Pontiac Sunbird with the Iron Duke. Those were a LOT easier to work on than a FWD layout! I’m guessing the S10’s had as much room in the engine bay as the H-body cars with the Duke engine. A friend had a Celebrity with the Duke and I couldn’t believe how much more stuff was hanging off the engine, compared to my car…
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So dang cute! At startup, I felt like the USPS mail truck was making the rounds in my neighborhood 😂
Yeah, our local postie has finally switched to a more modern van, but now I can't hear them arrive! 😂
Same here, I live in a rural area and yes I can hear her arriving and departing. 30+ years with the same old truck.
Petey, my dog gets so excited when he hears an iron duke moaning down the street. He loves our postal carrier.
The engineers were thinking "What's the cheapest way to push these off the assembly line?"
And they weren't wondering what people would be saying about them in 2024.
Well it was originally designed to be a rear wheel drive motor and they just got clever and converted it to the front wheel drive with adapters
@@charlesdiggs5297 That's what I was thinking. Doesn't look like it would be bad at all when mounted longitudinally.
@@plmn93 or they could have spun the engine 180 degrees and mounted the differential upside down to reverse the rotation.
Going back farther, these engines are more or less based on the 230 250 292 Chevy inline 6.
I loved the thermostat design. I could fill the cooling system and let the coolant circulate . Then reinstall the thermostat. All within 5 minutes. This contrasts with trying to purge the air from most engines.
I had two steel bolts in my aluminum thermostat housing (83 Cutlass Ciera sedan). When I had to change the thermostat, corrosion made the bolt head break off. Had to run to the JY to get another thermostat casting.
@@logicthought24 Truth be told, it wasn’t really a bad engine for its say as far as reliability when compared to its predecessor- the Vega engine and its successor-the 2.3 QUAD 4 . The Quad 4 was more powerful. But a lot less reliable. Also, it was more reliable when compared to some of the offerings from other companies such as the Chrysler produced 2.2 engine and especially the 2.6 Mitsubishi produced engine used as the optional engine in the Chrysler K cars. The 2.2 was decent. But it would blow a head gasket if you looked at it wrong. The 2.5 main problem was valve cover gasket leaks and the fact that it was LOUD and rough. It would get you where you needed to go. But you wouldn’t enjoy the trip.😂
@@logicthought24 I think one of the other problems was that they put the engine in cars that were simply too heavy for it. It was decent in the Monza and its clones. It was decent in the X bodies. But when they put it in the A bodies, it was overworked.
It was smoother and quieter than that miserable Vega engine though .
You can see why the imports were worried about these cars and how they sold so well to start. On the surface they look great. Comfortable with good space and handsome styling. The designers did their job very well. Then the bean counters ruined them. I wish today's small cars were more like big cars, like these were.
How did the bean counters ruin them?
@@bradkay Cheapest materials and build quality. The 1980's cars were junk.
I had a radio remote broadcast to do and it was a nice day, so I loaded everything up into my 1982 Citation X-11. Everything fit with more than enough room to spare. The car attracted a lot of college student attention. First, because they had never seen one. Ever. Second, it atsounded them on how much space was in what is now a very small exterior package.
@@garykeith1048 I don't see that the designers did a great job which is what plmn93 is alleging.
Have an Iron Duke in my 1986 S15. Real wheel drive positioning makes all the difference as it is very easy to work on.
This is actually a really good engine. I have one in an 85 S10 that's never had a major overhaul and that ol engine don't do nothing but run & run & run & I don't think you can even blow it up just by driving it because it's been thru absolute hell abused even and never so much as a breakdown other than the in tank fuel pump. You see what I believe the problem is, is that engineers didn't have ANYthing to do with that filter, or that cap, or any of that other crap. Because the Engineers designed and built that engine to be run LONGITUDINALLY, Not Transverse. Everything after that you can't blame the engineers, if I measured you up for a tailored shirt that fit you like it grew off you then after you got out the door walked down the road and got to your house you took it off and stretched it up over your ass, legs thru the arm holes, would you walk in the house and go "I don't know what the hell that idiot was thinking when he designed these Shorts, they dont fit worth a Fuck!"
I had a 82 olds omega all the way to 2005. I totally rebuilt the 2.5 in 1996. Oil filter, cock the wheels to the left and reach thru the passenger wheel well, easy. I found the distributor cap was easier to get from underneath. I never had issues with steering rack. I had 2 fuel injectors that went bad in the ten years after rebuild. It was a daily no nonsense to and from work beater with a heater that was super cheap on parts since all the post office trucks had these in them for a while.
When you buy any personal vehicle, its the smiles per dollar that counts. Cheers Adam.
So true, my rusty old F150 makes me smile everytime I shift through the gears
These things were everywhere, when I was working the pit at Jiffy Lube, from '89 - '91. Lots of ripped up knuckles and burnt skin.
Yeah, I worked at Rapid (Instant oil change). No pit, but a rack, went through the wheel well with a ratchet a long extension with the "claw".
Adam, all of our GM front wheel drive cars had "morning sickness" from the steering rack in those days. I was in the Service Department at an Olds dealership from 1985 til 1990. Our OE racks were strictly made from an aluminum housing. The power piston would seize in the aluminum bore after last use, and, if you didn't know about this, your first attempt to turn the steering wheel might require a pipe wrench to break it free, and then it was good for the rest of the day. All replacement short gears were rebuilt with stainless steel sleeves to take care of the problem. I've been in some situations with these cars that created a tremendously dangerous opportunity to maneuver. Another infamous problem with these cars was the TCC solenoid that would stick and stall the vehicle when exiting from a freeway. Even worse was the cheap AC fuel pump that would get hot from a long drive, develop excessive resistance, and then stop working. A few minutes or a few hours later, the vehicle would drive with no problem. After dropping the tank, you would find the fuel pump electrical contacts had turned brown due to overheating. Not so good inside of a fuel tank, AND get over the battery change. Enjoy changing a battery in a later Chrysler Corp. vehicle where the battery is installed in the bottom of a front fender!
Power steering pumps were common failure. Try getting one to the side of the road when you steer one handed due to driving with hand controls,, murder on shoulders.
@@KentTeffeteller That's why i POSTED THE 1980'S FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE CARS were junk. I'm glad, Toyota, Honda, and Volkswagen kicked their ass. Corporate dickheads killed the quality of American cars in the 1980's.
Oh yes, I helped my dad change the morning sickness steering racks on our '86 Buick LeSabre and our '88 Pontiac 6000. It started out as morning sickness, but then they would start getting stuck even when hot, like when you're on the highway. A little unnerving when the road curves, you turn the wheel, have no power assist, and when you get some muscle behind it to stay in the lane, power steering suddenly comes back and you oversteer.
Glad you've got a 1984 car that still runs very well. If it still works - then keep using it. My family had a 1984 Honda Civic that we kept running for 30 years.
I had the Tech 4 in an 88 Fiero and while it doesn't have the distributor woes, the serpentine belt tensioner is an absolute nightmare. For whatever reason removing it opens up a huge hole in the water jacket, so you have to drain half the coolant before you can replace it, which then adds the fun task of burping the Fiero coolant system. On top of that they don't make the tensioner for the Fiero anymore so you have to get a customized Sunbird tensioner from Rodney Dickman which costs about 4x what a normal tensioner costs. The whole process was fairly horrible.
Had a ‘89 6000 with the tech 4. The water pump was indeed a Royal PITA to replace.
Brings back memories. I took my 85 grand am 2.5 to my mechanic in 91 for a full tunup. When picking up the car he complained about how hard it was to do. Said he had to put it on a lift, reach up and pull the distributor down at a wiered angle busting up his knukles in the process. I thought at the time it was just a tune up cant be that hard. But understand now. I have always remembered that discussion. Think about it when doing plugs and wires to this day.
Had the same year Grand Am and replaced the distributor myself. Extremely difficult to do in a driveway. Then at 61,000 miles the head cracked and coolant was getting into the combustion chamber. Pulled six heads off other engines and the one I had was less cracked than the other six. This has to be the worst engine GM ever made. The thermostat design was great though.
@@davidp8627 yep, had to get my head gasket done at 100k. Was not that bad, no warped head, just put a new gasket on. One issue was the head bolts were a bitch to get loose. Drove the car years after that. At 170k the car developed a rod knock that got really bad, was so noisy about to throw a rod. Dodge used car dealer gave me 100 dollars for the car. Put that towards the used car I bought there- 1990 Dodge colt. The colt ran good for years then hit a deer, and water stared leaking in the passenger compartment, in winter I would frozen water on the floor and frozen condensation on the inside of the windshield. Had to scrape the outside of the windshield as wee as the inside. That's when I gave up and said I'm not doing this any more. That year bought my first new car 2003 Honda Civic Lx, and drove that 20 years at 250 thousand miles.
I’ve had to replace an ignition module on one of these at night on the side of the road.
😳
It was engineering like this that weaned me off of GM.
I had a neighbor who had a vehicle with the Iron Duke and he loved it! It was a mid eighties Jeep CJ7! Easy maintenance. It wasn’t so much the engine, it was the vehicle engineers.
I worked at a dealer in the early 90's. another HUGE problem with that distributor was water would get in it and either kill the engine or keep it from starting. even a light rain would get the cap wet and the engine starts coughing, sometimes it would clear up but mostly it would get worse.
We had an '87 Buick Century with The Duke. At the time (around 1999/2000) I was working as a mechanic so when I did the tune-up, I put the car up on the lift and changed the cap and rotor from underneath.
Funny you mention GM A6 compressor and the pancake compressor. I was just thinking about that. I had an old Nova with factory A/C and the GM A6 compressor and the vents would get frost on them on a road trip. The A/C in our newer Toyota is very weak (NO it does not need freon/refrigerant). I realize those old compressors used more energy but who cares, when it's hot out I want cold a/c that can adequately cool the car in any weather.
My 1981 Eldorado had the R-4 (Radial 4-cyl) compressor, and even though it had a smaller compartment to cool than previous years, it was never more than adequate.
I've got an 08 Toyota, and I'm very happy with it. But... The A/C is adequate, barely, and nothing more. It works, well, adequately, but I'm still a bit disappointed in it.
@@eyerollthereforeiam1709 Same here. The A/C is our new Toyota sux and struggles to keep interior barely comfortable at anything over 80 degrees. If we lived in Florida I'd probably buy another car that has proven great a/c.
Don't forget, up until 1994 (or thereabouts), almost all automotive a/c systems used Freon 12 as a refrigerant. Its drawback was that it was claimed to damage the ozone layer, so the industry moved to R-134a. I believe that the new refrigerant is not as efficient at absorbing heat as the original Freon-12.
@@martinliehs2513 I understand but then the manufacturers should put in a bigger evaporator or do something to compensate. I'm telling you the a/c in our newer car is very weak, and in my opinion unsatisfactory.
We had an '88 Pontiac 6000 with a tech 4. It didn't have a distributor so that wasn't a problem, but it did have other mechanical issues. It had the small front brakes that wore out at 15k miles. The canister oil filter in the oil pan needed pliers to remove and always caused a mess. The belt tensioner opened the cooling system when you removed it and caused a mess if you didn't drain the radiator. The belt tensioner and alternator both failed at around 40k miles and again at around 80k miles.
Replacing a failed coil or ign module on the DIS system was almost worse. High mileage cars that were full of rust often times ment the tiny bolts would rust into the coils and break off in the module plate, sometimes flush. If you were being paid by book time, your day just got ruined.
Iron Duke.... Camshaft timing gear? Anyone remember that issue??
I do, changed many in the day..
They were a very reliable motor though.
Would be better suited for a marine motor though. My opinion of course.
My former wife, as her first car, bought a '78 Chevy Monza with the Iron Duke. Bulletproof, indestructible! Air conditioning DELETE! 35 mpg. We drove that car cross-country on leave one year between SoCali & MI.
The serpentine belt on the mid to late 90s Rivieras are really fun withe the way they go THROUGH the motor mount, hope one never breaks when you're on the highway
I love your videos. Brings back memories of the different cars we were detailing back then for our customers and lot. There are always certain things that are a bit difficult, but back then they were made to be repaired, individual parts were, not throw away. Interiors were really easy to remove. All screws in plain sight, not hidden clips with plastic tabs that break off.
Had an '87 with the Tech IV. Engine had an unmistakably unique sound that you could hear coming a mile away with no mods and stock exhaust. Some might call it crude or unrefined, but it's music to my ears.
I had a few Dodges from this time period with the 2.2L engine. Plugs, distributor, alternator, and a/c compressor are all right up front and easy to service. Timing belt changes are also quite simple. What's not easy is the starter or the turbocharger, very difficult to change.
As I always said at work, a thing of beauty on an engine stand .
My friend had a Chevy Celebrity that he bought from a senior citizen, who had never changed the oil. I think it had about 70k miles on it. Took us an entire day. Similar color, too. Sounds smooth as sandpaper. Nightmares.
I had an iron duke in an ‘80 Pontiac Phoenix that I got good service out of. Ran it for about 4 years until I had trans problems. I ran the car hard everyday but kept clean oil in it and serviced it well all the time. It wasn’t fast by any stretch but it did what I needed it to do.
I bought my '80 new--actually ordered it in '79 and it took 6 months to make. I wanted a stick , and they weren't coming off the line very fast. Fuel economy was excellent, room was awesome, but it would not carry hills in 4th gear and that tranny was a dog. Could not keep synchros working. And it jumped out if gear often.
I had the 87 Buick Skylark with the 4tec version of that 2.5L engine. Changing the oil was a pain because it had the cartridge style filter inside the oil pan. However, there wasn't a separate oil drain plug to drain the oil first. You removed the large filter plug to drain the oil and get access to the filter. Could be very messy if you aren't careful. My car also had a power steering failure in that there was power assist when turning right but not left.
My car was the same color of maroon / burgundy as your car. Mine was a 5 speed manual and I would get about 44 MPG on the highway. It had the digital dash as well. I loved that car but someone else decided I didn't need the car anymore and side swiped me and totaled the vehicle.
I had it in a '90 Grand Am, Mother in '86 Buick. Not a powerhouse, but the Iron Duke was enough and a reliable soldier, direct descent of the Blue Flame Six. On my throttle body unit, injector for the 2.8 V6 made a significant difference in performance. Upgrade the 3.1 with a 3.8 injector for similar results. Problem was it was designed for RWD, making it difficult to service in FWD application. Not only was the distributor back there, so was the often neglected oil filter. With dextrous hands and patience, the extra work can be avoided.
Back when I worked on those I just got use to those things
Great idea - an easy-to-change thermostat, but a hard-to-change distributor cap and oil filter.
the racks were always fun to swap out
I think for all domestic cars of that era the real challenge was being successful in the repair itself. Curing drive ability problems was maddening.
Nice to hear about the steering rack - I planned on changing the fluid in my A body. Good shape car overall. Steering feels great, light, and smooth, but the fluid is very dark. Reddish brown on a paper towel, but appears as burned chocolate milk in the reservoir.
I had a 1984 Iron Duke Celebrity. Other difficult and/or annoying repairs were the water pump and the factory AC lines that didn't have barbs on the fittings, resulting in refrigerant leaks.
I figured you were going to comment on Cadillac Shoehorning a V8 in their FWD cars in 1985
Thoughts of Homicide come to my mind, any time I have to work on any car after 1984.
I had one of them and I loved it. It was an 89 Sedan Deville with the 4.5 TBI. It wasn't difficult to work on at all for a front wheel drive. The car in this video looks far more challenging then mine. The drivetrain was very reliable and cheap to repair. It had lots of room all around, very comfortable interior, ultra quiet, super smooth, pretty reasonable fuel economy, and a bit of power. They came out with a 5.0 liter the next model year, and I always dreamed of what that extra boost would've been like to that big old car.
@@JoshuaDemersProductions
I had a 90 DeVille with the 4.5 with SDFI, and then a 91 Fleetwoodm with the 4.9. Engines only had 9.5:1 Compression, but required Premium. Changing the HVAC Blower was a Pain, practically had to pull the Motor out to do so. That was why I made my Original Comment
Had a '93 & '94 Deville. Both had the 4.9. The '93 was a bulletproof TANK. The '94 was a faberge egg. BUT, both were easy to service.
Certain body styles with the 4.5 and 4.9s were indeed mighty packed in there. I recall several times having these cars coming in with misfires and finding the frt bank plugs changed, but rears were never touched...
@@JoshuaDemersProductions
A 5 liter was Never put into the FWD Cadillacs. The RWD got the 5 liter in 1986, I had one of those, still my Favorite Cadillac, despite having No Power. While the 90 FWD with the 4.5 Never gave me issues, the 91 with the 4.9 did, the Transmission would do something weird and throw Body Code, so I don't think the Puny little Transverse Transmission in those Cars was very Good.
I remember lots of broken head bolts , the 3 by the exh manifold. Then they leaked coolant. Was difficult sometimes getting those dam bolts out. Good memories :)
Had an '86 Calais with the Iron Duke and it's the worst engine on any car I've owned. Blew a head gasket at 57,000 miles and ran so rough that you had to put the car in neutral to keep the dashboard from vibrating at stoplights. I've driven riding lawnmowers that felt more refined.
I test drove an 87 Skylark with a 2.5 and it did the same thing at stoplights. Chintzy. I did like the digital dash though.
You've probably driven riding lawnmowers that were quicker, too.
1981 Citation V6 rear plugs!
That is where the unbolting the front motor mount trick made that a bit easier 😋
We ran hundreds of these engines in S10 fleet pickups. Inner city stop and go with multiple drivers. Very dependable. These trucks were abused daily. Only one engine failure and that was on a propane converted truck. Overheated and cracked the cylinder head. Replaced the head and converted back to gasoline no more issues.
And don't forget the first gen LLV postal trucks.
1970 Triumph TR6-clutch change started with removing the interior including the carpet to remove the transmission tunnel, then transmission. The frame rails were too close together for the transmission to slip by.
I had two 2.5 Citations, an '84 and an "85. With no AC the distributor was very easy to get too. We had a '86 Ceutury with AC but it still wasn't ot hard to get to the Distributor. As for the Oil Filter, just turn the steering wheel all the way for a left turn. Sit on the floor and it is an easy reach to remove the Oil Filter. With thae small size I could twist it righ off with out a wrench. My Citations were 4 speed manual transmission and had plenty of power . I used them to pull a small boat all over the Pennsylvania mountains and never got in anyones way. I bought my '84 new and it had over 230,000 miles when I sold it to a guy that ran it over 300,000. I bought the '85 with only 169,000 and put over 40,000 on it.
My 82 Buick Skylark with the iron duke has been the most tedious car to set ignition timing on because of this
The later versions of that engine was bulletproof and easy to work on, the 1st gen was terrible, my dad had one. This video sums it up...
Ah, your 84 Omega reminds me of my 85 citation with the Iron Duke 4cyl. Mine got great mileage and had the plus of being a 5dr hatchback with station wagon versatility.
Cool idea for a video!
Those oil filters are a real pain!
@ 9:38 one of the first series of the Delco ETR Radios. No set button, you would pull the button out to set the station. Those sounded pretty good also
I had one of those! Pretty good car actually
I once agreed to try and get Cimarron powered by one running... sitting in the middle of a business center's parking lot, on a freezing cold day. Trying to blindly reach around the block, only to change the plug wires, was a nightmare!
Thankfully, the wire & plug change was enough to get it running. I forget what I told the father of the owner--who was a friend of my father... hence why I agreed to do the job--what I felt should be done in follow-up, but I never saw that car again... and damn glad the only other 'Duke I ever worked on was in my first truck: A fleet trim S-10, handed-down from my cousin.
The Cimarron was never powered by the Iron Duke. It initially had a 1.8L pushrod Chevrolet four cylinder, then a 2.0L version of the same engine, and finally a 2.8L V6.
Yep. Remember them well. Tech 88 thru 02. Timing gears were a suck job too.
Best they did was DI, oil filter moved to the pan, serpentine belt accessories drive.
I drove one of these back in the day. It was a very comfortable car and that AC will blow frost out the vents when you turn it off. 80hp is a bit dated, but at the time it was enough.
I had a 1980 Oldsmobile Omega Brougham with the Iron Dike and a standard transmission; four speed if I remember correctly. Almost nothing about the car worked properly. AC never cooled adequately, transmission was like something out of a pickup truck, and it was delivered with an undersized piston - just to name a couple defects! Good looking car but a total lemon otherwise. That was almost forty-five years ago but I remember that disaster like it was yesterday. It spent most of its one year/12,000 mile warranty at the dealership. Never buy a first year GM product! LOL
Among the many reasons I love your content is that you bring attention to cars that are interesting yet overlooked elsewhere because they are not popularly regarded as cool or classic. I learned much about the Iron Duke -and enjoyed seeing this car (masterful packaging by GM in a medium-sized car…downright luxurious looking!) Thanks for the great content Adam!
The Iron Duke was originally a reverse flow head with the exhaust and intake on the same side. The distributer was accessible in that configuration. In 79 they went to a crossflow head and didn't do something about moving the distributer. That likely would have meant recasting the block.
My parents had an Omega with the tech4 Iron Duke; engine’s voice was unmistakable. As always, Adam, your productions are top notch!
Overall the Iron Duke wasn't a bad engine. It might be the best four cylinder GM has ever made. They did have a bad rep for oil sludge build up so you had to keep up with regular oil changes. They weren't powerful and had a buzzy sound but they did OK at highway speeds. Now I've heard that the Quad 4 engine was a royal headache to work on. A lot of mechanics hated that engine.
I was and am 1 of um. We used to call them the Quad w-hore.. Everything you could think about that could go wrong, did. What I will say is I got a chance to drive a Grand Am GT with the 190hp HO and a 5 speed. That car moved pretty good! ( but it was only a couple yrs old at the time..)
Love that Maple color interior. Very nice.
I had an 1986 Ciera with the iron duke. My only complaint was removing the oil filter. Car was virtually trouble free over the 15 years we owned it.
I had a 1983 J-body GM with their 1.8L engine that had the same style thermostat housing with cap.
It was easy to work on…. And boy did it get worked on. The only other plus was its fuel injection. :)
Oil filter and dist cap from below if I remember correctly!!
The belt tensioner also closed off the coolant of red cuz the water pump/fan clutch was located there on the rwd config. Made a huge mess in the street of buddy's house changing the tensioner.
the safety recall for the power steering rack mounting studs that paid jack shit was fun fun fun.
You have to remember that the engine was designed to be put in a rear wheel drive. It was originally put in the Pontiac sunbird of the late 70s
I had one of these in a S10. It had valve train issues. There was not enough room in the push rod gallery so if you replaced a valve push rod the side of it rubbed against the block until enough metal was worn off. This had to be good for the cam lobes!
The Tech 4 engine designation came out in 1982. The Fiero in 84 had the Tech 4.
For me the bad repair was changing the heater/blower motor in a Volvo 240. It required taking the dash apart.
Amen to that. I did it twice...never bought another 240 without evidence of blower replacement.
Almost Bought a new Buick Skylark 1985. I will say this the car rode and drove nice and was quiet. With lots of room. But not much on the power side.
Purchased an 84 fiero (auto) in june of this year. I've already tackled what i'd considered two of the worst jobs. First It's changing the v belts. Specifically the ac compressor belt(it was whining). The AC compressor is between the engine and firewall down low, but still above the cat. It has 2 pivot brackets. I kept having to get under the car, then hop back up to reach from above the engine. And then trying to tension the belt required me hooking a rachet strap off of one of the pivot brackets to one of the lift points under the car to get tension on it. And this job was done with jack stands and the tires off.
The second job was the rear brakes, they still are not properly fixed. The parking brake actuator inside the caliper pistons have a wiper seal, one of mine is damaged and cannot be reused. I tried to find a replacement part but the manufacturer stopped producing them in 2016. So every Firebird, Fiero, 6000, and Camaro (just from my research there may be more) from 82 to 88 is SOL.
For the time being I've gone with front brake calipers from a 6000 and they are working great. (Still have the old ones in case i find that part) Got wheel blocks for if I ever need to park on a hill. Maybe I'll try and swap the strut/hub assembly in the future to have a different parking brake system.
Im not really sure if I want to go this route as this car is almost museum grade. Has minor issues with some interior and paint but everything else is factory.
The reason the distributor cap is so difficult to replace is because this engine was originally in a rear wheel drive application and was mounted 90° from its front wheel drive application. This was a problem with many early front wheel drive cars they were using rear wheel drive engines and things got shoehorned in inconvenient locations.
Harder to service than it should be: my 1975 Chevy Monza with the 4.3 litre V8 shoehorned into the Vega-sized engine compartment. Longitudinal mounted engine, with fartherst back spark plug on each side of the engine hidden beneath the firewall. The dealers didn't even have a special tool for changing those plugs, they had to unbolt the engine mounts and let the engine settle a bit into the subframe. Then you could get a socket onto those two back plugs.
My 86 Calais Supreme had the Tech 4. It was not labelled or called the Iron Duke. However, everyone calls them Iron Dukes which is not correct. The car was economical and we made many trips to Florida. I did have to replace the a/c compressor. The torque converter lock up switch failed, but was easily fixed. The oil filter was a little easier to replace on the N cars. We kept the car for 14 years and it covered 260,000 + kms. The only time it didn't start was one night in Oromocto, New Brunswick when the temperature fell to -40. Even the local tow trucks wouldn't start.
So nice that you appreciate details and fineries that many would dismiss. One of my favorite channels.🎉
Had one in an S10 and a Pontiac 6000. Lots of problems on the former, but the later never really needed much of anything.
I had an 82 Camaro in High School with the Iron Duke. It had a rod knock so loud it sounded like a diesel and a 3 speed auto. The previous owner added insult to injury by slapping Iroc Z decals down the doors.
A few things.
The welded sheet metal exhaust manifolds tended to crack in the center. They weld easily with a standard MIG welder running regular steel wire.
Timing gears tended to wear on these engines making them clattery. It took a while for the aftermarket to come up with a tight tolerance fiber cam gear ( same gear set as the 230 250 292 Chevy inline 6 though most of the inline 6 engines used a aluminum cam gear ) I used to pull the cam out to change the gears but moved to threading the nose of the cam and using that to pull the gear into the cam.
Early automatic X cars had a problem where the transmission oil pump drive would wear the splines and stop turning. This is an in the car fix with the updated drive.
On this car, look behind the air cleaner , at the firewall. The speedo cable runs here with a coupler, this was a common " odometer delete " option. Other GM cars had a mechanical cruise control on the inner fender and the same " odometer delete " function.
Had an 1982 Chevy Citation with the 2.5 Iron Puke. Ended up with a bad water pump which in turn took out the head gasket. Drove it for 2 weeks with it like that. Sold it to a guy that wanted to swap engines. Got $800 for it, which was a lot of money back in 1992.
I got 32-33 MPG on the freeway, but only until the torque converter clutch wore out. For me it was about 85,000 miles. After that, freeway MPG was only about 25.5. The internet, RUclips and other people's experiences just were not available back then.
We bought one new in 1986 and put 245000 miles on it b4 it rusted so badly that we had to take it off the road. Have to agree with you about the distributor cap and oil filter. It also ate front brakes at an astounding rate until we started to use carbon metallic pads on it and that cured the brake problem. We love your channel. How do you manage to find so many wonderful cars. Do you have an inside track on a Florida retirement community? haha.
Yeah, that distributor cap and rotor was pretty much a feel it job with no visual help much. Was glad to see the DI come in.
Your right, Fiero V6 has that pull thermostat. Prone to rust in all four shock towers in the rust belt. Had both V6 and Iron Duke, Citation, Phoenix, and a two door Omega Brougham; long before GM began to make 'em right. Everything you did tended to require disconnecting the motor mount. 🏁🇺🇸
I didn't get the memo. When did GM begin to make anything right?
Okay so, last 2.5L car I had was a 1985 Celebrity. I got so sick of messing with the distrubitor that I relocated the ICM to the firewall with a heatsync of its own. I just extended the pickup coils wires to reach it, and the actual plugs to it were able to move quite a bit from where they were. I mounted the ICM to an old Pentium 4 heat sync and its still working to this day
That is what I have planning to do with my iron duke now for many decades..ie move the ignition module to the firewall in my 1982 Camaro..
Good to hear another has done this.
My 1982 distributor has its original 4 pin connector that is like the 1981 era..a replacement distributor has the wrong connector.
So I have bought the rare spare distributors from a rebuilder in Los Angeles that is the only guy on the planet that has them.
Anyway my new 1982 had its 1st ignition module fail at say 140k miles. Then one at roughly 250k.
Then all newer ones have been junk and fail quickly.
That's with the proper heat compound to heat sink it.
One I installed a few years ago failed in 500 miles.
Ridiculous
So my plan is to move the module to a heat sink on the fender area of my camaro where I can add test points to check the dang thing.
Regards
On the flipside, it's actually a lot easier to change the distributor on the Pontiac Fiero. It's that the motor is facing the opposite way.
My friend had the same car and color,great around town cruiser 😊
That's the issue with any small front wheel drive car, there is bound to be something in the engine compartment that will be hard to get to.
Very nice Oldsmobile! I have celebrity’s myself I’d say the hardest thing I’ve done is replace the camshaft gear it’s made of nylon and eventually breaks it presses onto the camshaft not an easy repair. Great video thank you!
Yeah, that camshaft gear was a mutha to deal with. Had to be real careful going back in with it.
My pick for a difficult car for repair:
Chevy S10 / GMC Sonoma with the 2.2L fuel injected engine. The injectors are an absolute nightmare to replace; the engine was originally designed for FWD vehicles which would explain the difficulty.
Here's one for you Adam: While not a difficult job as far as accessibility goes, the placement of the engine oil filter on Chrysler small block V8s here in Australia in the local Valiant 'A' bodied cars can be a right pain to do a clean filter change. Because our cars are right hand drive, steering boxes are on the opposite side of the engine bay to U.S. models. Chrysler small bocks have the oil filter and boss right where the steering box is placed, so Chrysler Australia engineers devised two hard-drawn pipes from the engine oil filter boss up to a filter mount block on top of the engine, right next to the distributor. Unfortunately this makes the filter mounted completely upside down. This makes a clean filter replacement job impossible. Oil goes everywhere!
The solution for me was to move the filter boss mounting block over to the side of the engine bay and run some flexible hydraulic type lines from the original lower filter boss up to it. It can be made neat, but certainly doesn’t look factory. But certainly makes oil changes much more pleasant!
I must say Adam I really enjoy your channel, and watch every episode, even though quite a few of the cars you showcase are rare here.
My first car was a '76 Omega. It had a mini 8 cylinders which were actually very huge. One thing I never got was why they put the hood release inside the bumper so basically anyone could open it.
The Pontiac Sunbird with the 2.0L OHC engine had the thermostat housing cap and a cap on the side of the radiator.
Nice to see that car still in great shape
I recall that the air filter was BELOW the battery on the Calais Quad4 ... good thing you replace batteries more often than air filters - not.
Really appreciate your maintenance tips and warnings. Not always thought of when considering vintage car ownership.
When you started it up I thought I heard the mail man lol
My brother in law had a citation as a company car and it was as roomy as my 78 Malibu classic
As a kid I worked for my Grandfather and Father's Auto Repair shop.
Thankfully, I went into Computer Science and Programming in the early '80s.
An older GM article I had showed the R4 compressor was "belt ratioed" so you got 1 Ton of Air Conditioning output per 1000 Rpm of engine speed..
So at 3000 rpm engine speed you got 36000 Btu per hour cooling capacity.
The R4 was marketed to other car brands. My brochure was from a SAE trade show in the early 80s.
I think maybe Mercedes used the R4 sometimes ????
I had a 1980 Pontiac Sunbird with the Iron Duke. Those were a LOT easier to work on than a FWD layout! I’m guessing the S10’s had as much room in the engine bay as the H-body cars with the Duke engine. A friend had a Celebrity with the Duke and I couldn’t believe how much more stuff was hanging off the engine, compared to my car…
Cam gear replacement is another challenge that can go very wrong if not careful.