Having read that letter, it's actually surprising that the war was started over opium and not just King George taking massive offence to what the Chinese Emperor said.
Why shouldn't the Chinese emperor write that? He just talks like that to everyone, inside or outside of China. At least he gets points for consistency.
You want more bonkers stories about us Brits and our tea James? Get this, in 1942, tea was judged so critical to our war effort in North Africa, that the government decided to buy all of it. As in _all the tea in the world._ I think we may need to collectively go into rehab.
@Connor Heddle-McGurk Nope, that actually happened. There was a shortage of tea because the British bought it ALL for their men in North Africa. The British people (as in the citizens of the British Isles) had to settle for less-than-appetizing substitutes, like flowers, bark, or other natural herbs. But it was for a good reason; due to supply reasons and that it was the fucking desert, whatever potable water they found wasn't exactly pure spring water, so they made tea to make it palatable. Not to mention the boiling process naturally pasteurized it so it was safe to drink.
Well, I always thought you Brits were a bit bonkers because you tolerate the royalty who stole from most of the world on the backs of you folks, but now....Now...Is there a stronger word than bonkers? Stark raving mad, perhaps? ;) LOL!
British: "Look! Shiny keys! Wanna trade?" Chinese: "Thank you for your offering (albeit worthless) to our perfection. We shall consider keeping you as a servant."
I really dont get why people like mocking the British or any imperial super power, if any of the countries which were being imposed upon had the opportunity to do what pretty much anything that the European superpowers are berated for doing, they would of took it with no hesitation, the British were smart, strong, and sure very manipulative, but to mock them is a joke, especially how these third world countries like mocking Europe and then proceed to ignore all the good they've done for the world.
@@juanandresramirez4599 Are you trying to justify imperialism? As in the system that lead to the deaths of millions of people, as well as enslavement on a scale never before seen in human history?
To become an empire two things need to happen a) you start calling the nation an empire, no one else is going to do it unless you do it first. b) actually be strong enough so other countries call you an empire.
@Hkg Hkg Oh no. I don't doubt that letter back to England was a clusterfuck of bad decisions made by a byzantine and woefully out of date and under-informed government bureaucracy. This is what happens when you lock yourself away from the world for a few centuries and keep your head firmly up your own backside.
If you'd like to appeal your British Imperial Experience (trademark) please take a number, get in the queue behind India and we'll review your case. Thank you and have a foggy day :)
It's been my impression that it was pressure from Scottish traders that influenced the British Crown in the Opium Wars. It's the nuances that really matter in human affairs.
Joseph Nez It funny because even though you know what James means in context it still sounds terrible, but also the like the kind of thing some smug British Imperial Admiral or British East India Company merchant would have said. It is funny precisely because its so terrible.
In a twisted way, the regimes that came after the Ching Dynasty kind of did. The treaties of Inquality is the new mandate of Heaven in modern China. Basically, whoever can protect China from accepting similar Treaties has the right to rule China and most Chinese would support that regime even though they may have serious issues with that regime. Dr. Sun use it to galvanize the Chinese expats that was forced to other countries to find work due to the chaos that came at the end of the Ching dynasty. These expats donation finance the cause so much so that it pretty much bring down the Ching dynasty. Hence the current Chinese embassy do extensive work and monitor the expats in every countries Those chaotic days were so bad that it is about 2-3 generations from most Chinese living in China and abroad. Most would have learnt tragedies and many times tragedies of family from that chaotic time. Many would rather see a strong dictatorship that would protect China from similar chaos than a benevolent democracy that would let China fall apart and descend into chaos. Case and point, the recent south china sea dispute. It didn't take long when the treaties of inequality were brought up and most of the country, young and old forgot about the slowing economy, the corruptions and all they put on their weibo or QQ are about not giving an inch of Chinese territory ever again.
Good communication tends to get punished. People, and the powers that back them (monarchy or democracy, you still have to keep your power base happy), tend to praise or punish based off how closely something matches what they expect/want to here. Good communication involves hearing a lot of stuff that doesn't mesh with your mind's eye.
The John Company thing could easily be based on John Bull, a personification of Great Britain during the time period in much the same usage as Uncle Sam is for the United States.
the opium from india was of better quality NOT due to a refining process... the process is far too simple to really improve on. the difference was the type of poppy grown for this use. not all poppies are the same and the ones that grew naturally in india are among the most powerful in the world... at the time.
Not a British accent ... What an American thinks is a British accent. Talk like that in England and lightly to face slapped as you are taking the piss.
You can blame the Pacific theater of WWII, China's nationalist movement, and the Chinese Civil War on Walpole too. After the Opium War, European powers started to split China into Sphere of Influence which heavily weaken the Emperor's rule and basically carved out puppets states within China. Post-isolation Japan saw how a country with huge influence on them had fallen because of European powers, they decided to adapt and imitate the colonizing powers so they won't get colonized themselves. One thing led to another, you get Japan's rapid expansion into Asia, yada yada yada, WWII. And because of China's weakened imperial power after the Opium Wars and the nationalist movement to take back China from foreigners, intellectuals like Sun Yat Sen was able to overthrow the Dynasty, establishing the Republic. Then Communism came along and a Civil War happened. Because the Communist took power, much of the proxy wars during the Cold War that happened in Asia can be then linked back to Walole through these many events. So yeah, much of pre-modern Chinese and Asia history and political issues can be traced back to Walpole. Walpole, literally screwing the world over since 1676.
Easy. Walpole leads to American Revolution, which leads to the British Empire defeating China, which inspires Japan to create an empire, which leads to the creation of nuclear weapons.
Flags are always problematic. But it's like referring to Nicholas II as a czar; as long as people know what's going on, it's not a big enough detail to matter much. Don't beat yourselves up about it.
Hey, I'm sorry since you just explained about how which history topics are chosen to become a series. But I would like to note that most series from the more recent story are about or very associated with UK. Not that I don't like the UK related episodes, I love many of them. But I feel it's a shame that topics related to other countries are not explored as often. I have a theory on why that is, afterall it's an English speaking channel so it's only natural, but I do feel that there could be a way to have the patreon supporters choose the topics while exploring more topics out of the anglophone world. Again, I'm really really sorry for asking this since I'm not supporting patreon, I really wanted to support you on patreon but it's just that the dollar is really expensive in my country so not something I can do for now. I feel many people here can't support you for this very reason. Thanks for another excellent video. Keep up the good work!
I'm digging the fact that I get to see someone nerd out over history like I do. I've had almost this exact cadence and tempo as I'm gushing over someone that's been dead for a super long time.
Commemorate this series with the special, limited edition Opium Wars wall scroll by series artist Lilienne Chan! Available until July 27. UPDATE: This wall scroll has sailed away! You can find other items from the Extra Credits store here: store.dftba.com/collections/extra-credits You can also view the original artwork here: www.patreon.com/posts/first-opium-war-6046862
Until 1889, Brazil was (at least formally, with titles and all) an empire. The only non-Brazilian territory it ever had was modern day Uruguay, for about ten years, and it also expanded into Paraguay.
I love how James sounded like an awkward serial killer when he started doing James Recomends videos, but now sounds all charismatic and sure of his voice :)
Brothers Gracchi? You mean the Roman tribunes who pushed for reforms in favor of the plebeians? Tiberius, who got beaten to death with a stool by a senator, and Gaius who had his head removed, filled with lead, and rolled down a hill? Those brothers? Well, I'm game.
I just had an epiphany on how global our current world is. As an European I had no clue which city you were talking about before you commented that "Canton" is Guangzhou.
I feel that one could call the British Empire a Empire. Even the monarch has the title of Emperor/Empresses of India. India it self being a multicultural land. (And not unified until the British took it over.) I think is as simple as this. If you call you self a Empire and other are willing to recognize you as such, then you are a empire. Just like what makes a nation. And while a Empire traditionally is made up by different cultures or kingdoms if you wish it does not have to be so. Even what is a culture is a bit of hard to define after all. Generally when we talk about historical empires it tend to be empires that unify a larger region with more or less dictions cultures under one government.
From my understanding it was the British East India Company that did that. And just as they distance themselves from the conquests of their colonies, so too do they distance themselves from the conquests of their companies.
Nope. Remember after Queen Victoria died and Edward took over? India threw a huge party for their new emperor, meaning he owns them, meaning h conquered them.
Exactly. They used to be a sovereign nation (Or in India's case, several) but were taken over by e British and subjugated. Ruled by Britain, conquered by Britain.
Native speaker of Cantonese here. Actually Guangzhou is an exonym (Mandarin name for the city) while Canton is a European transliteration of the local name.
WWI settlement (punishment) vs WWII reconstruction is a video I'd love to see. I've actually talked about the differences a loot at home, and why we should handle more conflict aftermaths like that.
I heard he got hit in the face with a mace, what dummy would damage his own face instead of simply turning his head? That letter seems so polite, I get the idea he clearly has no interest in trading but is focused on stabilizing his realm. Pleasantries exchanged between guests. Hosted to a feast in gestures of friendship, gifts exchanged. Though, I have to question if the closing statement was mistranslated.
great video and your answer to the "what video about the recent 50 years would you make" seems really interesting, if you have the time to at least discuss your insights on it, i would appreciate it, seems like a good topic pic!
I always love the Lies episodes! There's so much interesting extra stuff. Plus, it's fun seeing the Walpole connection. And I see they got it in one this time! ^_^
On the subject of Empires: What I've heard is that in Europe, for a long time, the title of "emperor" was inherited from the Roman Empire, and since Rome was divided in two that meant that two countries inherited this title. The Holy Roman Empire from West Rome and Russia from East Rome. To not have inherited from Rome just meant you couldn't be called an emperor. Just wasn't a thing. That is until Napoleon dissolved the HRE. After that everyone started proclaiming themselves to be emperors.
Pure speculation: John Company could've been used in the same matter as 'John Doe', for the more... lucrative activities that the Company may or may not have been involved in. Perhaps even John Company was a phrase analogous for the 'Everyman Joe' since the standing army under the EIC were, for intents and purposes, less professional soldiers and more contractually obligated employees.
Great episode of Lies, I learned so much! Having been inspired by the Hamilton musical, I've been thinking a lot about this time in history. The question that confounds me is this; WHY did the US become allies to King George so quickly after the Revolution? Was it trade (tea)? Was it the British cultural attitudes of the founders? Why would they defend British imperialism? Is this why the US didn't try to liberate Ireland (while France covertly did)? I'm sure there's a million things I don't understand or misunderstand about the situation.
they made peace with them because of economic and social connections that existed, along with the need to make peace since they still had two colonies (Toronto and Montreal) out of the 15. The American war of independence was also not popular in the UK either. A lot of people understood the appeal of shaking off the King and forming their own nation. The Brits sent a considerable amount of East Indian soldiers to fight in the conflict because they didn't have the same sort of feelings about it as the English troops did.
It’s easy to take clocks for granted today but they really did revolutionise society, There was an entire room in the Emperor’s Summer Palace devoted to a collection of them.
Maybe the art team needs to make posters about various flags and timelines for them for the Merch store, and then buy some for themselves? Or maybe a flow chart of some kind. Are you drawing content for a historic video? Yes > Have you looked up what flags were used in that period? Are you using the correct flag? Etc.
There. Fixed the Canada remaining a colony issue. ;) 19:27 It does say right there that you offer them three to vote _from_ though, so it's not completely out of your hands.
Awesome videos dude! I've been wanting so badly to get into history from a personal research standpoint and your channel is a fantastic foundation for that. Thank you!
I wish I had enough money to become a high enough ranking patron to submit this officially, but perhaps such a patron might be generous enough to consider it on my behalf. I would like to put forward the suggestion of Britain's Railway Mania of the 1840's; the story of how railways went from a novelty of the northern counties to the arteries of a nation, how names like Robert Stephenson, George Hudson, Samuel Morton Peto, and Isambard Kingdom Brunel became household names (Bonus suggestion: Just the life and achievements of Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Seriously, this guy was amazing and basically designed and built the modern world), and how the race for riches on railway stocks drove the British nation into a frenzy and ended up bringing the British banking system to its knees.
It was a classic example of conservative elements fighting tooth and nail against reform. And if you won't permit badly needed reforms to take place, what you eventually get is a revolution. Which Caesar and Octavian brought them, and Marius might have brought it a whole lot sooner if he had kept his health a few years longer.
Most of Tiberius's reforms were actually implemented. The problem was that Senate was pretty miffed that a mere tribune would rule everything, bypass the Senate, and then run for election for a second consecutive term, which just wasn't done. While the response was definitely over the top, I can't say they were out of order to suspect that he was trying to reinstate the kingship.
Same thing happened when Russia sent their ambassador to China in the 17th century. The Chinese sent him back with details of just how much taxes the Tsar has to pay to him yearly xD
I was really confused how John Adams (2nd POTUS) was able to comment on the Opium War, considering he died in 1826 and the wars started in 1839. I forgot that it was his son, John Q. Adams (6th POTUS) that was commenting on the war. How have I gone this long without realizing that not only do we have two presidents named John Adams, but that they were father and son?
I find it quite ironic that Chianlung Emperor was just as much an imperialist as the westerner. Have annexed a significant territorial expand during his lifetime. Of course that probably didn't help with the negotiation. Imagine if the federation from star trek show up in Napoleon's court at the height of his power without bringing convincing proof that they are from space/future. Napoleon thinking he is a god among man will most likely be dismissive as well. Still Qing can still trade the surplus for well I don't know... better cannons or a steam engine to study? Of course that would mean the the surplus would be spent instead remaining in the treasury where ministers can... you know... cook the book.
At 21:00 you were discussing empire and emperor. I agree that the common meaning of empire is sovereign rule over the core of many different ethnic groups. The British monarchs were certainly empresses and emperors, but that title was kind of a dirty word in Great Britain it wasn't seen as befitting a monarch who had to work with Parliament, typically more associated with absolute rulers like Napoleon or Catherine the Great. Instead, Victoria and her descendants (until Indian Independence) were only "Empress of India."
Along lines of your pick on contrasting the post-war conditions of the World Wars, would you also be interested in comparing German denazification to post-Civil War reconstruction?
I feel as if my favorite line to hear in this show, and in history shows in general, is "oh yeah and it's that..." it's just fun hearing about all the mischievous and bad ass stories behind some of the world's famous names.
Q @ 22:19 asks what topic you would like to visit from the last 50 years, both examples are from ~98 and ~71 years ago respectively. Something that I seem to see happen a lot lately is that people don't consider the World Wars quite as long ago as they really were. In fact, Interwar Europe was closer temporally to the First Opium War than we are today to Interwar Europe! Just something interesting to think about.
Hey, just letting you know I had to do a paper on international business relations and how to handle cultural differences. I used the trade negotiations expedition as an anecdote for the why it is important to understand other cultures and got complemented on the writing. I would not have know about it if it wasn't for you spreading knowledge. I owe you at least 1 point of my 7,5.
The recent war in Afghanistan was also about Opium. The Taliban wanted to end Opium production, and where attacked by NATO for that. After NATO invaded, Afghanistan became the mayor Opium producer in the world.
I've no idea how I haven't stumbled across you before but better late than never, I got a lot of content to watch lol. Subscribed, not too many balanced historians around with most being centrics
A bit late to the party here, but have you guys ever played the game High Tea? It was my first real introduction to the events leading to the Opium Wars, and I was wondering what you all would think of it, being people interested in both games and history.
James a little wrong in the Definition of Empire, Empire in the European sense requires the blessing of the Head of the Church ie: the Pope (and/or election by various Princes in the Holy roman Empire which kinda got sidelined) the UK, being a god fearing Anglican country with the King/Queen as head of the church could have claimed itself as a Empire but the title Emperor was a dastardly European-papist-thing and "why would we want to copy the french?" Quite frankly we get by with the simple Dei Gratia and Defender of the faith.
I really like your videos. Keep up the good work. However two points bother me. 1. Chinese Emperor sends the most arrogant, condescending letter imaginable but it gets chalked up to “cultural misunderstandings”. No. The emperor understands full well that his letter implies a king from another nation is beneath him. 2. Saying Britain technically wasn’t an empire because they didnt conquer they colonized is ludicrous. To conquer land area you still need to push the original owners off of it. That, and there were Indians who lived in those areas the British administered.
. I think the main reason there was success after WWII as opposed to after WWI, was the fact that the United States had so much dominance in the reconstruction process owed to the fact that they were footing the bill for that reconstruction (The Marshal Plan). WWI was very different. As the US was kind of a late comer to the war, the European Allies more or less dismissed what Wilson wanted to do and pushed for the vindictive punishment type settlement that ended up being put in place (which almost insured WWII). I know this is a very simplified view of the situation, but I'm not writing a comprehensive book here. :)
12:34 wow. He drew that without ever stepping foot outside of China. Imagine the amount of intel he had to comb though to gather info about a country he hadn’t heard of.
21:00 Empires! The anwser to that question is to do with the Roman Empire. As we all hopefully know the Roman Empire had an Emperor in the West and East. This was then revived with the Holy Roman Empire in the West in 800AD and the continuing Eastern Roman Empire that fell in 1453AD. So there would always be two empires in Europe. Russia, which considered itself the Third Rome and is probably the best candidate out of bad bunch for it took up the mattle of being the Eastern Empire. This of course had a a large reaction from the kingdoms of Europe. More Empires spring up after this Two Emperors in europe idea collapses when you have an Austrian Empire a HRE, a British/Spanish/Portugese/Dutch/French colonial Empire. Hope this helps.
Had to get a wall scroll because these lies about my hometown are awesome! j/k Thanks for the history lesson, 'they' didn't get that deep into it when I was growing up in Hong Kong. In summary the history lessons were sorta: "there was an opium war, Jardines started it. We is awesome, we kicked ass. Now there is Hong Kong."
21:00 Whether a counry calls itself an empire or not is really a matter of its own traditions and ideas By all acounts Russian monarchs way before Peter the Great were already "Emperors", as their title of "Tsar" would be properly translated to English as "Emperor", being derived from latin "Caesar" (on of the titles of Roman Emperors). Peter the Great simply changed his russian imperial title of "Tsar' to one in latin - "Imperator" (which was just another title of Roman Emperors). Russian pretensions to imperial status date way back to 16th century, when Ivan the Terrible got the bright idea that Russia is somehow an heir of the Byzantine Empire. So, considering himself a succesor of Roman Emperor, he took the title of Emperor, which in russian was "Tsar".
Saying that cultural differences where the main hindrance factor in British-Chinese relations is slightly misleading. While this statement is certainly true it simply doesn't tell the whole story. It's a good story to say that diplomacy failed because the British delegation thought they were being courteous yet the Chinese found them rude yet the bigger underlying issue was Imperial China itself. In Chinese the word China literally means central kingdom, as the Chinese thought themselves to be the center of the entire world, aka the world revolved around China. While they certainly knew of Europe, mostly from the European merchants that came to China, the Chinese never really payed much attention to them. In a way China treated Europe in a similar way to how Europe treated Africa, a place that was populated but far inferior to us and only good for business. China sold its goods to Europe for money and that's pretty much it, the Chinese weren't interested in anything European beyond that. Moreover we have to consider Chinese diplomacy as a whole, since they were the biggest empire in their area they bullied all their neighbors into being their tributaries. China had no allies or even vassals like many of the European powers had, they only had tributaries who payed them yearly tribute in exchange for protection from outside powers(such as Japan in the war you covered between Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Admiral Yi) but not from other tributaries. Which by the way was a similar system to what the Holy Roman Empire had, though without the tribute part, members of the Holy Roman Empire constantly fought among themselves but each time an outside power(mostly France) attacked 1 of the Holy Roman princess the Emperor, which was Austria most of the time, intervened on their behalf. That's the main reason why the Chinese automatically assumed the British delegation was there to pay them tribute, as that's the only form of diplomacy they knew. It wasn't a cultural issue but a geopolitical one.
Patrons... you guys should suggest doing a few episodes around The Last Witch of Langenburg by Thomas Willard Robisheaux. Its a micro-history centered around the trial of the last convicted witch of a small village in Germany. I actually teared up reading this book. It is also excellent in capturing a glimpse of a Europe in the midst of a transformation from its medieval past to its modern future. So here's a hint, a wink, and a nudge.
I did a module on empires and imperialism at uni. There is no universal definition of an empire, just because the word covers so many different entities it's hard to find any common ground. In your definition, the question is exactly what constitutes having sovereignty over another country
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Having read that letter, it's actually surprising that the war was started over opium and not just King George taking massive offence to what the Chinese Emperor said.
To be honest, anyone would have a right to be pissed at that letter.
King George : "Motherfucker! "
The King likely never read it.
How do you know it wasn't subconsciously?
Why shouldn't the Chinese emperor write that? He just talks like that to everyone, inside or outside of China. At least he gets points for consistency.
Lin ZeXu also wrote a letter to Queen Victoria after destroying the opium in Canton that says, " Let me ask, where is your conscience?"
@Pennyroyal Tea Emperors are divinely ordained, you dont protest against them.
@@karry299 you clearly dont know any chinese history or how the chinese feudal systems worked then
You want more bonkers stories about us Brits and our tea James? Get this, in 1942, tea was judged so critical to our war effort in North Africa, that the government decided to buy all of it. As in _all the tea in the world._ I think we may need to collectively go into rehab.
Rehab is for pussies- I can quit any time I want!
3 hours later:
Gets caught snorting a line of tea.
@Connor Heddle-McGurk Nope, that actually happened. There was a shortage of tea because the British bought it ALL for their men in North Africa. The British people (as in the citizens of the British Isles) had to settle for less-than-appetizing substitutes, like flowers, bark, or other natural herbs.
But it was for a good reason; due to supply reasons and that it was the fucking desert, whatever potable water they found wasn't exactly pure spring water, so they made tea to make it palatable. Not to mention the boiling process naturally pasteurized it so it was safe to drink.
Well, I always thought you Brits were a bit bonkers because you tolerate the royalty who stole from most of the world on the backs of you folks, but now....Now...Is there a stronger word than bonkers? Stark raving mad, perhaps? ;) LOL!
How British! 😂
"You know who raised the Tax on tea?" God dammit Walpole.
British: "Look! Shiny keys! Wanna trade?"
Chinese: "Thank you for your offering (albeit worthless) to our perfection. We shall consider keeping you as a servant."
I really dont get why people like mocking the British or any imperial super power, if any of the countries which were being imposed upon had the opportunity to do what pretty much anything that the European superpowers are berated for doing, they would of took it with no hesitation, the British were smart, strong, and sure very manipulative, but to mock them is a joke, especially how these third world countries like mocking Europe and then proceed to ignore all the good they've done for the world.
@@juanandresramirez4599 Are you trying to justify imperialism? As in the system that lead to the deaths of millions of people, as well as enslavement on a scale never before seen in human history?
Yeah that didnt last long for both sides
@@juanandresramirez4599 It's pseudo-intellectual arrogance.
To become an empire two things need to happen
a) you start calling the nation an empire, no one else is going to do it unless you do it first.
b) actually be strong enough so other countries call you an empire.
Exactly! The same for countries (CGP Grey)
c) be an East Asian country so that no matter what your native title means, the English speakers will call you an emperor.
Didn't know the King of Thailand was an emperor.
Carewolf Thailand is not East Asian
South *EAST ASIAN* country
What I wouldn't give to have been a fly on the wall when King George read that letter from the Emperor.
George: "What the f-...?"
I'd want to be a friend of the poor translator, the first person who read it who had to balance accuracy and not offending the king
@@AbsolXGuardian This was 1800s Britain. Nobody hurt translators, nor envoys and messengers for that matter. George wasn't some mad tyrant.
@@Communist-Doge No, but you'd been pretty nervous anyway
@Hkg Hkg ... And? Not sure what you mean by that.
@Hkg Hkg Oh no. I don't doubt that letter back to England was a clusterfuck of bad decisions made by a byzantine and woefully out of date and under-informed government bureaucracy. This is what happens when you lock yourself away from the world for a few centuries and keep your head firmly up your own backside.
"I hope you enjoyed the first opium war," is likely what the British said to the Chinese.
If you'd like to appeal your British Imperial Experience (trademark) please take a number, get in the queue behind India and we'll review your case. Thank you and have a foggy day :)
+Joseph Nez There's humor in every situation.
It's been my impression that it was pressure from Scottish traders that influenced the British Crown in the Opium Wars. It's the nuances that really matter in human affairs.
Joseph Nez It funny because even though you know what James means in context it still sounds terrible, but also the like the kind of thing some smug British Imperial Admiral or British East India Company merchant would have said. It is funny precisely because its so terrible.
In a twisted way, the regimes that came after the Ching Dynasty kind of did. The treaties of Inquality is the new mandate of Heaven in modern China. Basically, whoever can protect China from accepting similar Treaties has the right to rule China and most Chinese would support that regime even though they may have serious issues with that regime.
Dr. Sun use it to galvanize the Chinese expats that was forced to other countries to find work due to the chaos that came at the end of the Ching dynasty. These expats donation finance the cause so much so that it pretty much bring down the Ching dynasty. Hence the current Chinese embassy do extensive work and monitor the expats in every countries
Those chaotic days were so bad that it is about 2-3 generations from most Chinese living in China and abroad. Most would have learnt tragedies and many times tragedies of family from that chaotic time. Many would rather see a strong dictatorship that would protect China from similar chaos than a benevolent democracy that would let China fall apart and descend into chaos.
Case and point, the recent south china sea dispute. It didn't take long when the treaties of inequality were brought up and most of the country, young and old forgot about the slowing economy, the corruptions and all they put on their weibo or QQ are about not giving an inch of Chinese territory ever again.
"Bad communication" seems to be a recurring theme.
Good communication tends to get punished. People, and the powers that back them (monarchy or democracy, you still have to keep your power base happy), tend to praise or punish based off how closely something matches what they expect/want to here. Good communication involves hearing a lot of stuff that doesn't mesh with your mind's eye.
dragatus british form of communication *yells at the enemy repeatedly till they do what they want or they attack them*
@@neeneko lysenko
Whoever thinks that the British Empire won't go to war over the pettiest reasons doesn't know the British Empire.
What is petty about wanting to avoid the cusp of bankruptcy and ruin?
...or any empire.
Can’t deny them tea…
I don't agree, the point "the British Empire go to war over the pettiest reasons", Because it is related to the global economy.
You're an empire if you have 1000+ development and have clicked the button. Duh!
omg someone beat me to it XD
Hahaha this guy
Perfect.
Or if you control two kingdoms and have over 80% de jure empire land :-D
Ye obviously
Dammit James, that snooty accent of yours reading that letter had me cracking up laughing. XD
The hand gestures make it for me. -Soraya
+Extra Credits James Portnow for president!
+Benjamin O'Neill I'd say that James is a better candidate than either of the two US frontrunners, but that would almost be an insult.
*Smacking Noises*
Before he was reading the letter I clearly sided with the Chinese morally. Now.. well.. they kind of deserved it when being that arrogant.
"This video has gone on long enough already", not true; I could listen to James talk about *anything* for hours.
"This guy from Minnesota started the development of My Pillow several years ago..."
I don’t know why he keeps saying that, lol
The John Company thing could easily be based on John Bull, a personification of Great Britain during the time period in much the same usage as Uncle Sam is for the United States.
the opium from india was of better quality NOT due to a refining process... the process is far too simple to really improve on. the difference was the type of poppy grown for this use. not all poppies are the same and the ones that grew naturally in india are among the most powerful in the world... at the time.
The best emperial turn down letter quote was: "strange and costly objects do not interest me" XD
It's kind of ironic that James slips into a British accent while reading a letter to the British from the Chinese emperor.
Connor Floyd The British accent is the default posh arrogant accent.
@Connor Heddle-McGurk ...quite...
Not a British accent ... What an American thinks is a British accent. Talk like that in England and lightly to face slapped as you are taking the piss.
I can't wait till the world just up and ends and we can find some way to tie it all back to Walpole.
Nothing escapes this guy. ;)
You can blame the Pacific theater of WWII, China's nationalist movement, and the Chinese Civil War on Walpole too.
After the Opium War, European powers started to split China into Sphere of Influence which heavily weaken the Emperor's rule and basically carved out puppets states within China. Post-isolation Japan saw how a country with huge influence on them had fallen because of European powers, they decided to adapt and imitate the colonizing powers so they won't get colonized themselves. One thing led to another, you get Japan's rapid expansion into Asia, yada yada yada, WWII.
And because of China's weakened imperial power after the Opium Wars and the nationalist movement to take back China from foreigners, intellectuals like Sun Yat Sen was able to overthrow the Dynasty, establishing the Republic. Then Communism came along and a Civil War happened. Because the Communist took power, much of the proxy wars during the Cold War that happened in Asia can be then linked back to Walole through these many events.
So yeah, much of pre-modern Chinese and Asia history and political issues can be traced back to Walpole.
Walpole, literally screwing the world over since 1676.
I didn't expected you there Fritzy
Aleksy The Pony Of course, Extra History is my wine ;3
Easy. Walpole leads to American Revolution, which leads to the British Empire defeating China, which inspires Japan to create an empire, which leads to the creation of nuclear weapons.
James looks back over the First Opium War (and Federico da Montefeltro) and tells more stories that didn't make it into the episodes!
Flags are always problematic. But it's like referring to Nicholas II as a czar; as long as people know what's going on, it's not a big enough detail to matter much. Don't beat yourselves up about it.
Hey, I'm sorry since you just explained about how which history topics are chosen to become a series. But I would like to note that most series from the more recent story are about or very associated with UK.
Not that I don't like the UK related episodes, I love many of them. But I feel it's a shame that topics related to other countries are not explored as often.
I have a theory on why that is, afterall it's an English speaking channel so it's only natural, but I do feel that there could be a way to have the patreon supporters choose the topics while exploring more topics out of the anglophone world.
Again, I'm really really sorry for asking this since I'm not supporting patreon, I really wanted to support you on patreon but it's just that the dollar is really expensive in my country so not something I can do for now. I feel many people here can't support you for this very reason.
Thanks for another excellent video. Keep up the good work!
Sheldon is dissapointed. He is NOT having Fun with Flags!
I've always been curious, but what's with all the music from Final Fantasy XI? Is there a partnership with Square-Enix or something?
Captain Davy Personally, I enjoy getting a look at the parts of history that Anglophone schools tend not to focus so much on.
Holy shit that letter... That was impressive
how did you comment 1 hour ago?
I'm digging the fact that I get to see someone nerd out over history like I do. I've had almost this exact cadence and tempo as I'm gushing over someone that's been dead for a super long time.
Commemorate this series with the special, limited edition Opium Wars wall scroll by series artist Lilienne Chan! Available until July 27.
UPDATE: This wall scroll has sailed away! You can find other items from the Extra Credits store here: store.dftba.com/collections/extra-credits
You can also view the original artwork here: www.patreon.com/posts/first-opium-war-6046862
can you remain on making the rest of the opium wars like the next opium war
You guy's and girls are bloody awesome at telling history.
I think that they cover as much that needs to be covered for people to grasp the events in the amount of episodes
Do the golden age of piracy
My brain just read this as: "Commemorate this series with the special, limited edition Opium."
Wall scroll, not to be confused with Walpole.
Until 1889, Brazil was (at least formally, with titles and all) an empire. The only non-Brazilian territory it ever had was modern day Uruguay, for about ten years, and it also expanded into Paraguay.
Ehem and you Texas’d acre off Bolivia
"10% of the british government's revenue comes from the tea tarriff"
two words - vodka tax
You realize that 50 years ago was 1966, right? The direct aftermath of the world wars doesn't really fall into that time frame.
My thoughts exactly! I want a redo on that question
@22:00 - As Eddie Izzard said "We stole countries with the clever use of flags..."
I love how James sounded like an awkward serial killer when he started doing James Recomends videos, but now sounds all charismatic and sure of his voice :)
I love the theme for this one. Really well done. Hope you come back to this region in the future, super interesting.
Brothers Gracchi? You mean the Roman tribunes who pushed for reforms in favor of the plebeians? Tiberius, who got beaten to death with a stool by a senator, and Gaius who had his head removed, filled with lead, and rolled down a hill? Those brothers? Well, I'm game.
I just had an epiphany on how global our current world is. As an European I had no clue which city you were talking about before you commented that "Canton" is Guangzhou.
About the "What is and isn't an Empire" point - Britain totally conquered India. That makes them an Empire, right?
I feel that one could call the British Empire a Empire. Even the monarch has the title of Emperor/Empresses of India. India it self being a multicultural land. (And not unified until the British took it over.)
I think is as simple as this. If you call you self a Empire and other are willing to recognize you as such, then you are a empire. Just like what makes a nation. And while a Empire traditionally is made up by different cultures or kingdoms if you wish it does not have to be so. Even what is a culture is a bit of hard to define after all.
Generally when we talk about historical empires it tend to be empires that unify a larger region with more or less dictions cultures under one government.
From my understanding it was the British East India Company that did that. And just as they distance themselves from the conquests of their colonies, so too do they distance themselves from the conquests of their companies.
Nope. Remember after Queen Victoria died and Edward took over? India threw a huge party for their new emperor, meaning he owns them, meaning h conquered them.
The H.E.I.C. conquered india for them, and even after that india was turned into a puppet empire called the British-Indian empire.
Exactly. They used to be a sovereign nation (Or in India's case, several) but were taken over by e British and subjugated. Ruled by Britain, conquered by Britain.
Wouldn't be Extra History if there wasn't _some_ confusion over flag designs, now, would it? (◡‿◡✿)
Native speaker of Cantonese here. Actually Guangzhou is an exonym (Mandarin name for the city) while Canton is a European transliteration of the local name.
WWI settlement (punishment) vs WWII reconstruction is a video I'd love to see. I've actually talked about the differences a loot at home, and why we should handle more conflict aftermaths like that.
really love how these extra history episodes are put together regardless of any mistakes along the way
I would love to see a episode on how Ireland left the UK
I heard he got hit in the face with a mace, what dummy would damage his own face instead of simply turning his head?
That letter seems so polite, I get the idea he clearly has no interest in trading but is focused on stabilizing his realm. Pleasantries exchanged between guests. Hosted to a feast in gestures of friendship, gifts exchanged. Though, I have to question if the closing statement was mistranslated.
Cultural differences, mistranslation, or hur dur Brits need an excuse. You name it.
great video and your answer to the "what video about the recent 50 years would you make" seems really interesting, if you have the time to at least discuss your insights on it, i would appreciate it, seems like a good topic pic!
I always love the Lies episodes! There's so much interesting extra stuff. Plus, it's fun seeing the Walpole connection. And I see they got it in one this time! ^_^
On the subject of Empires: What I've heard is that in Europe, for a long time, the title of "emperor" was inherited from the Roman Empire, and since Rome was divided in two that meant that two countries inherited this title. The Holy Roman Empire from West Rome and Russia from East Rome. To not have inherited from Rome just meant you couldn't be called an emperor. Just wasn't a thing. That is until Napoleon dissolved the HRE. After that everyone started proclaiming themselves to be emperors.
Pure speculation: John Company could've been used in the same matter as 'John Doe', for the more... lucrative activities that the Company may or may not have been involved in. Perhaps even John Company was a phrase analogous for the 'Everyman Joe' since the standing army under the EIC were, for intents and purposes, less professional soldiers and more contractually obligated employees.
the acting by james was amazing
like funny amazing
Great episode of Lies, I learned so much! Having been inspired by the Hamilton musical, I've been thinking a lot about this time in history. The question that confounds me is this; WHY did the US become allies to King George so quickly after the Revolution? Was it trade (tea)? Was it the British cultural attitudes of the founders? Why would they defend British imperialism? Is this why the US didn't try to liberate Ireland (while France covertly did)? I'm sure there's a million things I don't understand or misunderstand about the situation.
they made peace with them because of economic and social connections that existed, along with the need to make peace since they still had two colonies (Toronto and Montreal) out of the 15.
The American war of independence was also not popular in the UK either. A lot of people understood the appeal of shaking off the King and forming their own nation. The Brits sent a considerable amount of East Indian soldiers to fight in the conflict because they didn't have the same sort of feelings about it as the English troops did.
Why would the US 'liberate' (annex) Ireland, when most powerful americans were British Protestants who looked down on the Irish
It’s easy to take clocks for granted today but they really did revolutionise society, There was an entire room in the Emperor’s Summer Palace devoted to a collection of them.
Maybe the art team needs to make posters about various flags and timelines for them for the Merch store, and then buy some for themselves?
Or maybe a flow chart of some kind.
Are you drawing content for a historic video? Yes > Have you looked up what flags were used in that period? Are you using the correct flag? Etc.
There. Fixed the Canada remaining a colony issue. ;)
19:27 It does say right there that you offer them three to vote _from_ though, so it's not completely out of your hands.
Awesome videos dude! I've been wanting so badly to get into history from a personal research standpoint and your channel is a fantastic foundation for that.
Thank you!
I wish I had enough money to become a high enough ranking patron to submit this officially, but perhaps such a patron might be generous enough to consider it on my behalf.
I would like to put forward the suggestion of Britain's Railway Mania of the 1840's; the story of how railways went from a novelty of the northern counties to the arteries of a nation, how names like Robert Stephenson, George Hudson, Samuel Morton Peto, and Isambard Kingdom Brunel became household names (Bonus suggestion: Just the life and achievements of Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Seriously, this guy was amazing and basically designed and built the modern world), and how the race for riches on railway stocks drove the British nation into a frenzy and ended up bringing the British banking system to its knees.
Before Marius, Sulla, Caesar, Pompey, or Octanian... there were the brothers Grachi. Can't wait for more Roman history!
I seriously didn't expect that one to win. Who's up for land reform bills and a good example of how bad elections can get?
It was a classic example of conservative elements fighting tooth and nail against reform. And if you won't permit badly needed reforms to take place, what you eventually get is a revolution. Which Caesar and Octavian brought them, and Marius might have brought it a whole lot sooner if he had kept his health a few years longer.
Most of Tiberius's reforms were actually implemented. The problem was that Senate was pretty miffed that a mere tribune would rule everything, bypass the Senate, and then run for election for a second consecutive term, which just wasn't done.
While the response was definitely over the top, I can't say they were out of order to suspect that he was trying to reinstate the kingship.
i'm so excited for this... well as much as one can be for a Senatus Consultum Ultimum
Same thing happened when Russia sent their ambassador to China in the 17th century. The Chinese sent him back with details of just how much taxes the Tsar has to pay to him yearly xD
YESSS THE GRACCHI NEXT WEEK OMG YESSSSSSS. U gotta do more classics stuff, James. It's obvious that's the stuff you know and do best.
I was really confused how John Adams (2nd POTUS) was able to comment on the Opium War, considering he died in 1826 and the wars started in 1839. I forgot that it was his son, John Q. Adams (6th POTUS) that was commenting on the war. How have I gone this long without realizing that not only do we have two presidents named John Adams, but that they were father and son?
Must've been Walpole.
I don't know, but at least you didn't mistake him for Sam Adams (either the other Bostonian of the Revolution or the Beer).
Weren't there two George Bushes, and they father and son
cmon boi
I find it quite ironic that Chianlung Emperor was just as much an imperialist as the westerner. Have annexed a significant territorial expand during his lifetime. Of course that probably didn't help with the negotiation. Imagine if the federation from star trek show up in Napoleon's court at the height of his power without bringing convincing proof that they are from space/future. Napoleon thinking he is a god among man will most likely be dismissive as well. Still Qing can still trade the surplus for well I don't know... better cannons or a steam engine to study? Of course that would mean the the surplus would be spent instead remaining in the treasury where ministers can... you know... cook the book.
At 21:00 you were discussing empire and emperor. I agree that the common meaning of empire is sovereign rule over the core of many different ethnic groups. The British monarchs were certainly empresses and emperors, but that title was kind of a dirty word in Great Britain it wasn't seen as befitting a monarch who had to work with Parliament, typically more associated with absolute rulers like Napoleon or Catherine the Great. Instead, Victoria and her descendants (until Indian Independence) were only "Empress of India."
I have read the diaries of Samuel Pepes & would think he is worthy of an episode pls James.
Along lines of your pick on contrasting the post-war conditions of the World Wars, would you also be interested in comparing German denazification to post-Civil War reconstruction?
I feel as if my favorite line to hear in this show, and in history shows in general, is "oh yeah and it's that..." it's just fun hearing about all the mischievous and bad ass stories behind some of the world's famous names.
Q @ 22:19 asks what topic you would like to visit from the last 50 years, both examples are from ~98 and ~71 years ago respectively. Something that I seem to see happen a lot lately is that people don't consider the World Wars quite as long ago as they really were. In fact, Interwar Europe was closer temporally to the First Opium War than we are today to Interwar Europe! Just something interesting to think about.
James I love this series man. I hope you get to make these for a long time.
The return of James' old foe: FLAGS! Also, loving the overcoat, James!
Hey, just letting you know I had to do a paper on international business relations and how to handle cultural differences. I used the trade negotiations expedition as an anecdote for the why it is important to understand other cultures and got complemented on the writing. I would not have know about it if it wasn't for you spreading knowledge. I owe you at least 1 point of my 7,5.
The recent war in Afghanistan was also about Opium.
The Taliban wanted to end Opium production, and where attacked by NATO for that. After NATO invaded, Afghanistan became the mayor Opium producer in the world.
I've no idea how I haven't stumbled across you before but better late than never, I got a lot of content to watch lol. Subscribed, not too many balanced historians around with most being centrics
Great series as always!
Make a series about the reforms of kings Agis IV and Cleomenes III of Sparta! Super interesting topic!
Man, the animation on this video was _really_ good!
Aw man. I always hate it when I see the lies episode. it generally means you're wrapping up the topic.
love the stuff you guys produce, EC!
So excited for the Gracchus brothers! Loved Dan Carlin's version on the end of the Roman Republic.
A bit late to the party here, but have you guys ever played the game High Tea? It was my first real introduction to the events leading to the Opium Wars, and I was wondering what you all would think of it, being people interested in both games and history.
James a little wrong in the Definition of Empire, Empire in the European sense requires the blessing of the Head of the Church ie: the Pope (and/or election by various Princes in the Holy roman Empire which kinda got sidelined)
the UK, being a god fearing Anglican country with the King/Queen as head of the church could have claimed itself as a Empire but the title Emperor was a dastardly European-papist-thing and "why would we want to copy the french?"
Quite frankly we get by with the simple Dei Gratia and Defender of the faith.
Love the guy who keep suggesting The Great Northern War. "When the Swedish clock went from twelve to one"
I'm British, and I can completely understand 10% of government revenue being raised by tea.
James is low-key everyone's spirit animal.
I can't wait for the next topic!! One of my favorite Roman stories.
I love the Lies videos just cause of the FFXI music alone :) the knowledge is a great bonus :P
Fun with flags :D
Big Bang theory reference
This is an amazing channel, glad I found this..
I really like your videos. Keep up the good work. However two points bother me.
1. Chinese Emperor sends the most arrogant, condescending letter imaginable but it gets chalked up to “cultural misunderstandings”. No. The emperor understands full well that his letter implies a king from another nation is beneath him.
2. Saying Britain technically wasn’t an empire because they didnt conquer they colonized is ludicrous. To conquer land area you still need to push the original owners off of it. That, and there were Indians who lived in those areas the British administered.
I absolutely love the new set and James' outfit.
Here in Quebec we have a region, a county if you will, called the Eastern Cantons, but in french ( Cantons de l'Est ).
. I think the main reason there was success after WWII as opposed to after WWI, was the fact that the United States had so much dominance in the reconstruction process owed to the fact that they were footing the bill for that reconstruction (The Marshal Plan). WWI was very different. As the US was kind of a late comer to the war, the European Allies more or less dismissed what Wilson wanted to do and pushed for the vindictive punishment type settlement that ended up being put in place (which almost insured WWII). I know this is a very simplified view of the situation, but I'm not writing a comprehensive book here. :)
Thanks James.
My deepest sympathies, Mr. Elliot. Then again, it is quite brutal to receive such snark from the monarchy.
12:34 wow. He drew that without ever stepping foot outside of China. Imagine the amount of intel he had to comb though to gather info about a country he hadn’t heard of.
I love your enthusiasm.
21:00 Empires! The anwser to that question is to do with the Roman Empire. As we all hopefully know the Roman Empire had an Emperor in the West and East. This was then revived with the Holy Roman Empire in the West in 800AD and the continuing Eastern Roman Empire that fell in 1453AD. So there would always be two empires in Europe. Russia, which considered itself the Third Rome and is probably the best candidate out of bad bunch for it took up the mattle of being the Eastern Empire. This of course had a a large reaction from the kingdoms of Europe. More Empires spring up after this Two Emperors in europe idea collapses when you have an Austrian Empire a HRE, a British/Spanish/Portugese/Dutch/French colonial Empire.
Hope this helps.
22:27 I am just going to guess, and hoping my guess is right: Cuban Missile Crisis please!
I have to say that I'm with Mr. Great Northern War on this one. I'd be a fan of that series.
In dutch the term "jan compagnie" is used for the VOC as well, it means John company
Had to get a wall scroll because these lies about my hometown are awesome! j/k Thanks for the history lesson, 'they' didn't get that deep into it when I was growing up in Hong Kong. In summary the history lessons were sorta: "there was an opium war, Jardines started it. We is awesome, we kicked ass. Now there is Hong Kong."
21:00 Whether a counry calls itself an empire or not is really a matter of its own traditions and ideas By all acounts Russian monarchs way before Peter the Great were already "Emperors", as their title of "Tsar" would be properly translated to English as "Emperor", being derived from latin "Caesar" (on of the titles of Roman Emperors). Peter the Great simply changed his russian imperial title of "Tsar' to one in latin - "Imperator" (which was just another title of Roman Emperors). Russian pretensions to imperial status date way back to 16th century, when Ivan the Terrible got the bright idea that Russia is somehow an heir of the Byzantine Empire. So, considering himself a succesor of Roman Emperor, he took the title of Emperor, which in russian was "Tsar".
Love the set of Burton's translation of the 1,001 Nights on your left there.
John company? It was founded by John Watts, who became it's first governor of that company.
i hope extra history never ends
Saying that cultural differences where the main hindrance factor in British-Chinese relations is slightly misleading. While this statement is certainly true it simply doesn't tell the whole story. It's a good story to say that diplomacy failed because the British delegation thought they were being courteous yet the Chinese found them rude yet the bigger underlying issue was Imperial China itself. In Chinese the word China literally means central kingdom, as the Chinese thought themselves to be the center of the entire world, aka the world revolved around China. While they certainly knew of Europe, mostly from the European merchants that came to China, the Chinese never really payed much attention to them. In a way China treated Europe in a similar way to how Europe treated Africa, a place that was populated but far inferior to us and only good for business. China sold its goods to Europe for money and that's pretty much it, the Chinese weren't interested in anything European beyond that. Moreover we have to consider Chinese diplomacy as a whole, since they were the biggest empire in their area they bullied all their neighbors into being their tributaries. China had no allies or even vassals like many of the European powers had, they only had tributaries who payed them yearly tribute in exchange for protection from outside powers(such as Japan in the war you covered between Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Admiral Yi) but not from other tributaries. Which by the way was a similar system to what the Holy Roman Empire had, though without the tribute part, members of the Holy Roman Empire constantly fought among themselves but each time an outside power(mostly France) attacked 1 of the Holy Roman princess the Emperor, which was Austria most of the time, intervened on their behalf. That's the main reason why the Chinese automatically assumed the British delegation was there to pay them tribute, as that's the only form of diplomacy they knew. It wasn't a cultural issue but a geopolitical one.
wallpolian needs to be a real word
do the second opium war please!
I can't be the only person who heard "wall scroll" as Walpole right? He IS everywhere, after all.
I just want James to teach me for hours on end. Love it.
Patrons... you guys should suggest doing a few episodes around The Last Witch of Langenburg by Thomas Willard Robisheaux. Its a micro-history centered around the trial of the last convicted witch of a small village in Germany. I actually teared up reading this book. It is also excellent in capturing a glimpse of a Europe in the midst of a transformation from its medieval past to its modern future. So here's a hint, a wink, and a nudge.
I did a module on empires and imperialism at uni. There is no universal definition of an empire, just because the word covers so many different entities it's hard to find any common ground. In your definition, the question is exactly what constitutes having sovereignty over another country