What Went Wrong? Analyzing the DCEU's Flop Sequels
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- In the end, did the sequels even matter? The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/princes...
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The biggest thing that bothered me about Shazam was it seemed like Levi has never met a young teenager. He was playing Billy like he was 9 or something. But the actual child actor was giving a great, well rounded performance on how a 13 year old in that situation would act. And then Levi is playing this goofy little kid and I kept asking, 'who is this person? Not the Billy I've been seeing...'
Exactly. They didn’t feel like the same person.
I think levi was great. it was the kid that was meh for me
@@politereminder6284 I have found my opposite! :D
@@Levi-cb7vg :D
this got especially glaring in the sequel. like zach didn't even try
“Using Luffy methods” has to be the most subtle yet effective way of confessing that you pirated something.
That's not subtle at all 😂
@@theanimerapper6351 to a one piece fan it isn’t. But to most of the world it’s all in code.
I mean I've never heard of "Luffy" before but I still picked up what she was putting down. It's not exactly subtle 😛
Indeed. I hope, you guys are enjoying the Netflix live-action!
@@moustik31 how could I not. It basically confirmed the Crocodile was a woman theory.
The fact that nonconsensual sex was a major plot point of WW84 was such a baffling decision... I mean, Mark Millar was joking about doing such a story back in the 90s...
Also, HOW DO YOU HAVE THE CHEETAH AND *NOT* DO AN ONSCREEN TRANSFORMATION?!?
Shazam 2 felt hobbled by the studio politics keeping Billy and Black Adam away from each other, despite "Youthful Optimism vs. Weathered Cynicism" being a plot that writes itself better than "Rock Punches Superman Really Hard"
That just comes down to Jenkin's faux-feminism. She doesn't care about or even recognize the possible of a woman victimizing the body of a man.
Black Adam was produced by two studios, one was Warner Bros, the other was created by Dwayne Johnson
@@TheFlash-rh2elbecause Dwayne wanted Black Adam to be the 1B to Superman 1A. But Rock didn't realize he pushed way too hard and pisses off a lot of executives. Plus his movie was bad and his acting was non-existent. He seemed to wanted to fight Superman no matter what it would do to the story. Nobody needed to give Johnson his power fantasy and thank goodness they made a sharp left turn
Sex was consensual. Consent is given by the persona, not the body.
@@dani3po ... so we could knock you out and puppet your body into having sex and it would be fine?
It annoys me that DC didn't just do theater releases of animated films. Their animated stuff (the ones I've seen) have been good, sometimes even great. You can do so much with 2d animation that doesn't work in live action, and it stands out.
Seriously America need more 2D adult oriented media that's not a lazily animated family guy knockoff
I absolutely hate the live action movies but am always excited when I find an animated one that I haven't seen.
Thank Walter Hamada for that. He was head of all dc projects. Animated movies slapped harder than the live action.
For real! Young Justice gripped me by the throat as a child when it came out on Cartoon Network and it's still got me. Especially when they went more adult with it. I'm so glad Into the Spider-verse and Across the Spider-verse have done so incredibly well. Animated works have an audience! Especially for older audiences.
Great point, 100% with you
Totally agree, it's why so much animated kid's media hits so hard with adults. *coughcoughblueycough
Calling these last movies "the dying embers of a stagnant universe" sounds way cooler than it actually is, like we're in the Dark Souls of the DCEU.
I'm giving the fire keeper her eyeballs so she can put an end to this shit, then
@@Murmaider4 Listen I don’t remember the lore but I’m pretty sure canonically the DCEU is the reason she took her eyes out in the first place.
@@shadyguy23 Based and Pendant-Pilled
WW84 was such a surprisingly grimy movie. The big offenders are, of course, the sexual assault plot that somehow nobody questioned and the racism. I was also extremely put off by how they indicated that Cheetah was "turning evil" by... having her beat up a guy that previously tried to assault her and was going to do it again? What?
When cheetah was portrayed as evil for bearung a guy who was abso gonna assualt her my partner turned to me for the second time during the movie and straight faced goes 'who wrote this? I thought sexual assault was bad? Who is enjoying this?'
We both really enjoyed the first WW and he was very excited to see Pedro Pascal. Needless to say havent seen it a second time.
NGL I literally didn't even think about the sexual assault aspect of Wonder Woman's relationship with Chris Pine, but I think it's because we only ever see him as Chris Pine. I fully forgot that he was another guy until the very end. It wasn't until I saw a RUclips review that I went, "Holy shit, that's right! That's messed up!"
I don't think it was as simple as people make it out to be. The film is basically a clone of a Donner Superman movie.
The Cheetah thing basically makes her decent into villainy (which is only picking a fight with another woman by the end of the movie - hardly villainy) the fault of the sexual assaulter. If he didn't do what he did Cheetah wouldn't have snapped to be evil in the first place. I see her as the centerist between Wonder Woman and Maxwell Lord.
The assault on Diana's part is more a metaphor for dating a new man after becoming a widower. Yes, within the diagesis of the movie, a man's body is being puppeted around, but the film also has to create a real-life metaphor to back its set-pieces up, which would be a widower dating a new man. She couldn't see the new love of her life until she was over her old dead lover.
It's not a good example of how to make a film. I wouldn't do it so shabbily, but parts are missing from most critiques.
The war in the Middle East Apect: also something in 1980s Donner movies, but also something that clashes with both Israel's creation of the wall, as well as a wall that was really being built in that part of the world with the help of America's Republican government led by Trump. You can also tag on Trump's own border wall (the one th Democrats still haven't taken down.)
It's a yuppie movie about using love to defeat people who were acting like a Donald Trump-type figure.
It's dumb and badly written, and completely lacks the anime-quality of the first movie, but it's got a lot to talk about.
@@carly7522 this film didn't deserve Pedro Pascal acting his heart out. Holy shit he did such a good job in service of such a trainwreck
I found an IDF Wonder Woman saving Arab children gross and tone deaf also treating Egypt like a gulf Arab state was pretty clueless too
_Wonder Woman 1984_ is an odd case because it very much feels like the director got to do basically whatever she wanted, the opposite of the standard problem with studio superhero sequels.
And imo it was glorious like Batman & Robin but wonder woman instead of Batman.
@@TheDCbizBatman & Robin is competently directed tho
@@nalday2534 I'd say this film was 1984 is better DIRECTED than ww 2017 and even more than Batman and Robin. It's just the stunt wire work and editing and writing is subpar
Another example of sometimes you have to reign some creator's, directors even writers etc, in.
Directors aren’t faultless. I fully believe David Ayer’s cut of Suicide Squad would have been terrible, based on how he describes it
That wink at the end, to the guy diana sexually assaulted, was just...horrific. I'm sure this movie was audience tested to death, HOW did that moment not get cut?? Who thought that was a good idea?
So weird and for some reason PJ seems to not get it at all!!
Because very unfortunately alot more people just didn't care or read it as much as people who do. Like I think the generic viewer can just watch this and not read that at all. Thats a media literacy problem, but it is kinda true.
@@G-LukeJAI feel like saying assaulted really undersell what happened to that guy
He was basically erased from existence and his body stolen, like wtf where they thinking?😂
The dramatic-ass shift in tone and emotional focus from Wonder Woman 2017 to Wonder Woman 1984, and how much it didn't work, should be one for the history books, honestly. I don't think I've seen a crazier transfer from storyline to storyline than: "Demigod woman must grapple with the idea that humanity is just as capable of evil on their own terms without any influence from the gods," to "Wishes bad lol." 🤷♀🤪
I disagree. I think ww 1984 carries a lot of the same messaging from ww 2017 but in terms of tone it's like going from Batman 1989 to Batman returns or venom to there will be carnage or first avenger to winter soldier
@@TheDCbizuhhh no. Superman to Superman IV would be an accurate analogy
@@nalday2534 True but in terms of 1 film switch up's I think the other examples fit. You are right that many audiences respond to WW (2017) like Superman (1978) and WW 1984 vs Superman 3 or Superman 4
Not even that "wishes bad" but specifically "wishing for things to be better is bad." DC movies have been on a trip of late of having their core message be "things will only get worse if you try to make it better so just sit down and accept your trauma, baby."
"Also, let's make our only female lead a rapist even though we kinda had to go out of our way to strong arm that detail into the plot because it doesn't even make sense."
Birds of Prey really slept on...
It’s so upsetting because it is so good!
everyone i know watched it on streaming and loved it, i think it just didn't have time to build popularity by word of mouth before everything closed due to COVID
It is good! I saw that one trailer and went "This looks good." But I didn't see it until I got the Blu-ray.
"birds of prey" is the only dceu movie i've rewatched (twice in theaters, twice at home). it is a violently girly, goddamn delight.
OMG it totally is! I've seen maybe half of DCEU films and only watched it because my family said they liked it, and it was such a good movie!
the flash went thru a bunch of directors, got rewritten so many times, basically nobody wanted to work on the film at points, and ezra miller is.... ezra miller. i truly do question how this movie survived but batgirl will never see the light of day. (also i love birds of prey im glad to see someone mention it)
I think the two biggest factors are just sunk cost in the initiall budget and planning for the film + how it can be used to "reset" the DCEU with Flashpoint while Batgirl always had a small budget and can't initiated a reboot.
Batgirl is more profitable as a tax write off in their estimation, the quality is irrelevant, profit is all that matters.
The second Shazam movie was such a letdown. I loved the first movie. Great ensemble cast, and everyone felt fleshed out. I can't believe they thought the movie needed more Zachary Levi and less of everyone else. They totally missed what made the first movie great. That scene with Billy finally meeting his mom had me bawling in the theater. The family was the bright spot in the first movie - not the guy from Chuck.
Shazam 2 was excellent.
Shazam 2 felt like a movie from 2005. But with 2023 CGI
SDhazam 2 was gr8. I. think its one of the better superhero sequels I've seen. Don't. know why people trash on. that movie at all. @@richborn6700
Yeah Zachary Levi doesn't exactly have star power
The funny thing is I saw someone suggest these movies should have somewhat switched plots and I kind of agree. Wonder Woman dealing with the Goddesses and the kids dealing with a grown man who can grant wishes feels like a better fit theme wise and tonally. At least at face value. Also I don't know where this opinion fits on the popularity scale, but while I love Kristen Wig, I don't think she was a good choice for Cheetah, based on what I know of the character. The actresses I would've liked to see though would've probably acted circles around Gal Gadot. Also I'd be off brand if I didn't say that I love Lucy Liu/wished she was used a little differently.
WW84 and Shazam 2 switching plots sounds amazing to me. I also saw a suggestion that Wonder Woman could've been more involved in Shazam 2 than just being a cameo.
That plot switch actually sounds amazing wtf
You gained a fan today, “if you cared about Snow White you would’ve seen mirror, mirror” lmaooo
If for nothing else, watch it for the costumes!!
And if you REALLY cared about Snow White you would watched Snow White Tale of Terror XD
@@MadameChristie Gods I loved that movie. 💜
Tell them!
I mean, this new one is really more publicized, maybe blame that
✊🏽Strike solidarity!!!
But why??? The WGA and SAGA didn't have solidarity with black talent for decades and has even now still given black talent the short end of the stick especially black women, Muslims, Latinos, Asians, natives, LGBTQ+, and differently abled people.
@@TheDCbiz
1) More and more of yearly new inductees into the Union are BIPOC than ever before, that’s kind of the point, that’s why committees have developed in these unions for marginalized interest and just throwing out the biggest union in America because of bad elements of its past that are being addressed more by the year is the same as acting like Florida is a state we can just cut off and sell our problems away, leaving all of the leftist movements and bipoc struggles to dry with no voice. Not supporting the strike does NOTHING to elevate marginalized voices. You are in fact ignoring them and supporting an even less diverse management world of corporate billionaires by questioning support of the strike. There is criticism to have for any union and there is expectation for it to be addressed especially as new committees and bipoc members enter by the year, but there is no criticism to the premise and act of the strike itself that is not bad faith
2) Even if the current writing and acting industry was fully equitable to its current conditions, those conditions suck. The strike would still need to happen, it cannot and should not be delayed.
3) We are not “differently abled” we are fucking disabled stop using patronizing language for disabled ppl just because you’ve been taught disabled is a dirty word
Worker’s rights means worker’s rights, and in fighting against the idea of the strike you are fighting against worker’s rights, ESPECIALLY the rights of workers whose voices are even less heard who are striking, plain and simple, no negotiations, no “ifs,” no “ands,” no “buts.”
✊✊✊✊ power to the people
@@TheDCbiz Fair point, and I think it has to start somehow, if only for proving that unions have some power…
@@DarkPrincessOfLight how is solidarity with the strike power to the people?
I’ve been saying since I was a teen that DC should just stick to making their mediums cartoon adaptations. Their cartoon movies and series are always top knotch. Marvel cares more about its live action heroes so there’s an opening! America sleeps on cartoons too much they can be even more compelling than live action.
The best Marvel movies ever made were Logan: The Wolverine and Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. The latter being the most unique one of the whole lot of them in terms of style and substance.
The DC cartoons are just soooo good and varied.
@@FishhookSupreme To be fair, if you take out the Snyder fails (BvS, JLSC) and the studio exec intervention mess (SS) but instead focus on the standalone superhero/supervillain movies by DC, you end up with a lot of variation and creativity as well: The world building in The Batman, Joker, Birds of Prey, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Aquaman is unique and (next to) flawless each time around. Even an overall second rate film like Man of Steel has its merits in that respect. JL, SS, TSS could have been much better, for sure, but as team movies at least they have their own look. It's these and other hero cross-over movies that I have most issues with (and yet The Flash got the Burton Batman throwback scenes just right). If we include older DC superhero/supervillain/anti-hero movies such as Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Batman Begins, Batman Returns/Batman, the 1970/80s' Superman movies, we end up with even more well done worlds, each with their own aesthetic, style and tonality.
Birds of Prey was the last film i saw before covid. My gf took me to see it. She liked it. I liked it.
WW84, the movie that made my gf upset. The first woman woman film got her excited for super hero movies. Sadly, the sequel destroyed that.
We appreciate your insights. You'll always have our support.
"justice league", "justice league: unlimited" and DC animation in general (and the 90s x-men series, for that matter) have set the bar so high for what their superhero movies should be and it is utterly mind-boggling just how short they consistently fell.
I can name 5 live action DC movies that are better than all of them. And that's not even including the Vertigo imprints.
That X-Men theme song and opening animation (done by a different studio in Japan or something) was so good.
@nalday2534 which ones?
That's lovely, what are they? @@nalday2534
That's cartoons, they don't count, because of reasons.
I would rather watch Birds of Prey a thousand more times than have to rewatch Joker once.
Okay but Joker was great lol
Yeah no one is surprised.
Yeah. Joker was amazing but Birds of Prey is absolutely a more enjoyable rewatch
Both movies are lackluster.
The "I have to get back to my real family scene" is probably the most emotionally high, uplifting, and emotional moment in the DCEU
Honestly wish they would give up trying to tie everything in and just let them stand alone and concentrate on telling one great story each time
That’s the plan, but studios want the crossover content, so they give the world the possibility when they feel the need. We have not heard of any JLA movies any time soon.
Both should be happening, I don't get why it's that hard, have two production labels to indicate what's connected and what's it's own thing, explain it and Let people choose. Problem solved.
I love your comic book content! There need to be more POC voices (and women at that) in the comic book space. I fell in love with DC comics over the past couple of years, and it sucks to see how bad the DC universe has been in a new light. Nothing is perfect, but DC has such great characters! Also loved your Jason Todd poster!
Would love to see her collab with fantastic frankey
Excellent video, Princess! I get annoyed when people release borderline schaudenfraude videos about the downfall of the DCEU/DCU, but actually looking at why things are going sideways is so necessary.
Just a technical comment: If you drop your mic down to be in the lower third of the frame, your camera will autofocus on you instead of it.
Hahahah thank you! I decided to just not point it out but I will make sure to do that next time xxx
The animated DCEU is INSANELY GOOD!!!!
Which ones, because I don't know which ones (I'm way out of the loop). Over at Marvel? Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Excellent series.
@@katherinealvarez9216It's called DCAU. Consists of shows like Batman The Animated Series, Superman The Animated Series, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Static Shock and more. It's the best shared universe in any of the media.
@@nalday2534oh! I thought you were talking about the recent projects. And yes, the DCAU is extremely good. Probably the best.
@@nalday2534 I revisited Static Shock recently, and it was so freaking amazing! I still can't get over the way they dealt with dyslexia.
DC animated is so incredibly good, it's the inverse quality of the live action DC
My dad even loves Birds of Prey. He didn’t know it was a comic book movie. He just liked the vibes and the characters.
The fact that NO promotional material has come out for Aquaman 2 is baffling.
Who'da thunk that Patty Jenkins would have needed the moderating influence of Zack Snyder in order to craft a streamlined and sensitive character journey?
He's just not as bad-a-filmmaker as the nerds say he is. You don't get a film movement akin to the reaction to the origin Red Scare if you don't know what you're doing.
Cause the only movies where these characters actually evolved were the ones from his universe/plan. Even when he's not directing the movie. Like for example the most concrete character work for Harley Quinn in the whole DCEU is in the Ayer Cut of Suicide Squad.
I know it’s a much smaller thing than the other issues with the movie, but I also can’t help but be bothered with the way they bring the invisible plane into ww 84 by revealing that Wonder Woman has actually had the power to turn things invisible this whole time, but never thought it was useful and just forgot about it.
I think Patty Jenkins is absolutely right that compassion and sincerity and humanity should be a core part of WWs character. In the abstract, I really like that she 'defeated' the villain in WW84 without cutting off his head, that does feel true to the character, especially since he's a misguided human. But yeah, it sure didn't work in practice.
Yes, Wonder Woman is all about compassion, humanity and all that, *however* she's not some non violent hippy. She will chop your head off if that's what it takes to get the job done. She has no issues killing monsters even in human form. If death is the only way to stop them, then so be it! In the comics she snapped Maxwell Lords neck.
To quote Wonder Woman to Superman in the comics...
"There's a reason I don't have a list of villains as long as Bruce's, Barry's or even yours. When I *deal* with them, I *deal* with them"
It's so weird because DC seemed to take awesome risks like Doom Patrol but then get cold feet other times and start meddling. The path they should have taken was to lean into weirdness and just let people go crazy instead of trying to remold finished products into marvel films
Well yeah you can do way more with obscure groups and characters not hampered by years of stories and writers.
I really want to see Blue Beetle, but I hate going to the actual movie theater, but I want to support Xolo Maridueña. He was so good in Cobra Kai (even though I stopped watching after season 3) and I think the movie looks great!
You should! He did a great job.
It’s a painfully generic film but he is a star! Worth seeing.
WW84 hurts me in my fucking soul for exactly why Princess said, people who knew what they were doing made this movie! Patty Jenkins is not a bad creative, she’s made great stuff! She’s obviously passionate about the character and her world and she has a great grasp of who Diana is (gonna agree to disagree with Princess on that; I love who Jenkins sees Diana as) and Geoff Johns has made some of the best comics of the modern era. How did this movie happen?!
It is a baffling movie regardless of anything one preference of Diana. It’s just so damn lazy and beautiful at the same time.
@@Princess_Weekes And what the actual heck was that story?! Like, the whole world descended into absolute chaos because “shortcuts are bad?” And there’s so many cool parts too, like all the times that Diana goes out of her way to minimize collateral damage at all times, ensuring that as few people are injured as possible, but then like, literally everything with the Steve Trevor plot? 😬
Bringing Steve, a pilot, back to life is one thing but Jenkins' dad was also a pilot. It's a very strange scenario when you look at it closely.
Patty Jenkins might understand an incarnation of Wonder Woman but she's remarkably uninterested in the Wonder Woman of the DCEU, who has a lot of fans (me included). It might have been better if she were given an Elseworld standalone with a different cast so she could actually make the film she wanted to make, here... Just seems like she tried to fix something that didn't really need fixing and change so much it doesn't feel connected to the broader world or story.
How did you skip the whole BLACK ADAM trainwreck? But yes I completely agree WB has wasted so many great characters. I gave up after Cavill was fired and Gunn basically announced all of the 2023 movies won’t matter bc it’s all getting rebooted. I didn’t need any more Snyder but I wanted some stand-alone movies for Cavill and Affleck. 😢
Being a standalone film, and a vanity project, Black Adam ended up being utterly inconsequential to anyone who wasn't a hardcore comics fan or someone who buys into The Rock's brand. Shazam 2, Flash, and especially WW84 were follow-ups to much bigger (and largely better-received) movies. Once Black Adam hit the box office and bounced off of it, people stopped caring about it.
What happened with Black Adam? I only heard of it and watched it when it hit streaming, but I enjoyed it. Did it just not do well at the box office?
This is really validating my decision to continue experiencing DC universe via Harley and Ivy and My Adventures with Superman
Julie Andrews voicing a kaiju was an incredible moment in cinema. I was so disappointed they cancelled the spooky Aquaman movie spinoff, there were some solid horror moments in the first movie.
It was actually going to be a Black Manta movie, the Trench idea was just a smokescreen for some reason.
I always said, if Chris Pine had to come back fro WW1984 he should have been a villain. Like the poison gas should have changed him and he’s now after Diana and the film is about her moving on and also realising that the world/people will always do terrible things and it’s why she moves to the shadows more
It's absolutely bizarre how Warner accidentaly strike a goldmine by giving their movies to real directors but then acted surprised when those directors had their own visions for their movies. It could have been such a breath of fresh air to see this more quasi-independent superhero universe where each movie felt distinct from one another, with shared elements but still individual enough.
The joke that is aquaman being the most highest earning dceu film is so ironic
Idk it’s just a fun super hero movie. It knew when to take itself seriously & when not to for the most part. I can see why it’s popular, it’s just a chill and fun movie
@@ruthvause3429 i like that film but it's still crazy aquaman who to mainstream viewers was a joke is the only dceu film to earn a billion vs WW, BVS, or black Adam with The Rock who is one of the buggest actors in Hollywood right now
Diana in most every incarnation is a self directed warrior and war general. If Jenkins didn't wanna make her a warrior, she shouldn't have worked on the character.
I think she contradicts herself so goddamn painfully making Steve Trevor a love interest AFTER HE FUCKING DIED. It feels painfully uncreative
What I liked about Shazam 2 was Billy’s struggle in trying to keep his family together. Makes sense a kid like him would have abandonment issues. But also the whole "not calling his foster mom Mom" felt so weird if years have passed AND you're doing abandonment issues
Biggest mistake was the release schedule for these movies for this year. Imagine if Blue Beetle came out in March, Aquaman 2 in June, Shazam 2 in August and The Flash in December. Idk if this would work for the movies' benefit or if the box office would've been any different, but if Blue Beetle was released first, then maybe people would've had more faith in DC movies. However, I think another mistake was announcing the DCU in January.
For Hollywood, it became more about putting the movies out for the cash and less about qualities. They're learning now the consequences of their greed.
I was really saddened by the fact that my favourite part of shazam, the family bond, the emotional journey that billy goes through, was reduced to nothing in the sequel. Wejust get random jumbled scenes that really didn’t make an impact. Like you said, billy calling his foster mother mom for the first time should’ve been the most impactful thing, but it just came out of nowhere. I think i lot of it definitely has to do with the amount of Zachary levi in this movie and lack of asher angel. granted i never thought asher was the strongest actor, i’ve known him from the andi mack days and i know his range, but he did a good job as billy batson in the first movie, i really believed his connection to his brother and the other siblings, and the emotional journey of letting go of his mom was really good. But he literally has like 3 scenes total in this movie, we never see him as a kid interact with his siblings or anyone, him and Zachary are playing 2 different versions of the characters that aren’t connected at all. Plus because Freddie is separated from everyone most of the time (i get that he’s the strongest actor in the kid cast so giving him more scenes makes sense) and he’s billy strongest relationship, we were missing that bond. So the scene at the end with them just didn’t hit cuz they had 2 scenes together the whole movie. I think also the fact that the adult actors took most of the screen time made it hard to connect them to the younger versions of them and really care. Idk for a film claiming to be all about family, it was really a crucial part that was missing
16:34 so the problem with shazam fury of the gods is too much levi and not enough billy. With WW 2, it was jenkins trying to be a writer when she is better at being a director not a writer for WW 1
I think another big reason why Shazam 2 failed was because it released 4 years after the first film. The first film was good but it didn’t have that much of an impact, so WB failed to build on the momentum by taking 4 years to release a sequel and it didn’t help that the trailers for Shazam 2 were painfully generic, just like the movie itself. In a market full of superhero movies something that looks generic is not gonna make a lot of money anymore, especially not from a damaged brand like DC.
If they hadn’t taken so long to make a sequel and if they actually followed up on what they teased in the first film like Mr. Mind instead of boring OC villains and The Seven Realms I think it would’ve been a better and definitely more interesting & unique film than we got and more successful because of that.
Nah, movies take a long time to make, and thats mostly due to all the vfx. Getting them out faster would likely mean the poor cgi artists and animatiors will have even worse working conditions.
We also really don't need a higher frequency of super hero movies coming out at this point anyway. People are already worn out enough as is.
don't forget about Young Justice being done dirty, multiple times over. although it came back due to overwhelming fan support for an extra two seasons. despite it's great success/viewer numbers each season, fans convincing WB to continue each time all the way up to a season 4. they still up and canceled the show.
just like back in the early 2000s when Teen Titans was abuptly canceled.
Yeah but the first two seasons were good, and when it came back it felt so directionless and unnecessary
I'd say there's shows that were treated way worse (Green Lantern: TAS and Beware the Batman), but considering how well Young Justice performed in viewership, it's baffling that they haven't done much with it since. They haven't even released season 4 on DVD/BluRay yet.
@@GamerSlyRatchet1 I loved that green lantern animated series. I was just coming ip with recent examples. but yeah, companies regularly don't value animated shows that are aimed at young adults and older. or shows thay go into darker/heavier themes
I remember when I first heard that Chris Pine would come back and the villain was a guy + Cheetah, I really thought the villain would be Dr. Psycho and Steve Trevor’s resurrection was a mind trick by Dr. Psycho
🐳One of the conflicts that I had with the first Shazam that felt like a missed opportunity is billy being younger. In most of the canon he’s normally around 9 or 10 when he gets his powers and it adds to the charm at how Much wisdom he has.
He kind of reminds me of Kevin McAllister.🐋
Birds of Prey and My Adventures with Superman praise, automatic like. Definitely liked your critiques. I personally like The Flash, especially every moment that tied back to his mom. I do wish studios would remember that the personal element is far more important than the grand scale. The scale means nothing if I feel nothing.
The sad, slow death of the DCEU is painful. If you're going to retcon and start over, don't drag it out. Clean cut and start anew
I had to steal my own words from my letterboxd to make this comment because it’s one of the big issues I had with WW84 that is hardly ever touched on - Perhaps most frustratingly is Pedro Pascal’s characterization is as a South American immigrant who changes his last name - whose entire arc is taking a “shortcut” to success in America by being all things to all people. Pedro as an analogue for 1980s excess, greed, capitalism, and hyper individualism doesn’t work when we see him come from a under privileged background. There is no way you make a movie with a South American immigrant in the 1980s and not talk about what the US was doing to South America in the 1980s.
Yeah like the comics version of Maxwell Lord would be just fine for that (he was introduced in the '80s as a scummy CEO of unspecified background and the Justice League International's extremely shitty boss) so it's like why....
The ball cap is such a cute look!!!
Also this was an excellent video and I always appreciate when someone else can tell me about DCEU so I don’t have to lol
Great video, I'm not very familiar with the comics so the details you filled in were really helpful. I always thought the move for the Wonder Woman sequel was introducing Nubia but I guess that was probably very optimistic of me. I also thought Aquaman was ridiculously fun, not a perfect movie by any means but that huge underwater battle with giant sharks and crabs and stuff? AND Dolph Lundgren?! Amazing. I'm really disappointed that The Batman is being considered a side-film now because I thought it was tremendous and it also means they're going to cast ANOTHER Batman AGAIN. How tiring, I just can't muster the energy to care anymore.
I subbed just for that intro alone, no playin around I love it.
As for WW84, I saw a critique that I think makes sense: The push and pull between Patty Jenkins, Zack Snyder & the studio made for a balanced first film surprisingly. The sequel is a product of relying heavily on only Patty's vision. I feel bad because she clearly didn't like being micromanaged on set but she also did not listen to the compliments/critiques people had for the original film.
Fantastic video, thanks for sharing. My favorite DCEU is Shazam, and I also love that the director has a fun YT channel where he shares behind the scenes moviemaking stuff, especially for low-budget horror movies. I love that kind of creativity in these mainstream movies.
I love your Princess Tutu Poster in the back 💖💖
“You don’t care about Snow White! If you did, you would have seen Mirror, Mirror” You are right and should say it!!
One of the first videos i've seen from you and absolutely loved it! It was great hearing your thoughts on the DC franchise and I share the same sentiments. I remember being in my teens, freshly heartbroken, and being so excited for the possibilities of the DCEU while impatiently waiting for BvS to come out. It's sad to see WB/DC give an odd exit to so many well developed characters while simultaneously letting everything fizzle out by throwing the rest of their slate into this year to boot. It really feels like a similar transitionary period for the movies this time and all I can say is I hope it pays off, its been too long since I've seen a superman movie!
I will also say that WW84 came out not that long after Max was used as a villain in the Supergirl TV show, a place where he fit way better because of the small scope of the early seasons. Also having a smarmy business man is less out of place when not every villain is a massive CGI abomination.
I don't like Max Lord being used as a villain at all, especially when all he amounts to is being a low-budget Lex Luthor. At least he was somewhat sympathetic in WW84.
"He IS Aquaman!" 😎 has never sounded so epic
I’ve not had that much interest in seeing Aquaman (it came out just as I hit superhero movie fatigue) but honestly Julie Andrews being a kaiju changes that.
Just want to say, gd glad you're back. Not to criticize why you weren't posting but more in a, hey, freaking missed you and glad you're here now
In another timeline, Paul Dini would of been put in charge and righted this ship ala DC Animated universe from the 90s/2000s
Warner Brothers would still interfere. They don't care about cartoons but any actual film has to have their fingerprints on it no matter how much worse it'll get. The ego on these studios to believe themselves right when the money literally tells them otherwise is baffling
I just realized.....the DCEU is 10 years old.....and yet it still feels like we're in the beginning of it.....and with no proper end in sight.
Love your comic book takes so much because they come for a place of deep nerdery and passion. Also the Luffy method? Chef’s kiss.
Great to see another video from you!!
I freakin' loved Birds of Prey. I'm still mad that the movie didn't do better. It was so good. I bought the Blu-ray.
I think the DCEU's problem is the same problem DC had with its comics when they rebooted for The New 52: the people actually running things (not the actors, writers, or directors) don't have any idea what they actually want, other than "what Marvel has." I'm inclined to agree that the DCEU has more INTERESTING stuff going on in it, the problem is, JUST LIKE with the New-52, they're stuck in this mindset of "something needs to be a massive hit with critics, fans, AND do big numbers, or it's not worth supporting."
And while I might utterly loathe Zack Snyder's pathological inability to see why he's a bad fit for characters like Superman and Batman, I admire his vision and it's clearly what the people at the top wanted him to do, except...the money was "only" good enough, the critics hated it, and the online discussion is split evenly between people who think it's an immature joke and people who take it WAY TOO SERIOUSLY (the same people who got a whole campaign together to RELEASETHESNYDERCUT for "artistic integrity" but actively celebrated Batgirl being cancelled), and I don't think they ever manged to square that circle.
Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and SHAZAM! all did great box office, all met with critical praise, but the online discourse among the diehard fandom around all 3 movies is they're "the bad ones" because they don't conform to libertarian ubermenschen ideals (or did, but didn't star a white guy), and somehow that got up to the people making decisions as reasons to completely half-ass the sequels.
Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam were great at world-building.
These worlds might not mix well, but who cares? The movies are good by their on merits, especially Shazam with its heartfelt story, family values, relatable villain and protagonists, the character arc of the main protagonist.
Joker, Birds of Prey, The Batman got that right as well: Character driven stories with an interesting plot and set in a world that engages you in a way that makes you wonder how you might survive out there, and how that might affect your morals.
Each of these worlds and their aesthetics are filtered through the main character's perspective and worldview, each one has their unique mood and atmosphere, each one has unique visuals and is highly creative in the way it is being presented.
The fucking Snyderverse threw all of that magic out the window for some messed-up, muddy, murky crossover storyline that was boring to begin with, drawn out boringly overlong, lacked character development, uniqueness and arcs (apart from Cyborg's, but Batman and Superman were a mess, Flash but an awkward tool, and Wonder Woman only looked cool but felt cardboard compared to her own movie), the visuals were bleak and lackluster, and the many slow motion scenes unmotivated and self-indulgent, plus there were way too many tell instead of show scenes to stitch the convoluted but empty plot together.
Zack Snyder should never have been entrusted with more than his singular Man of Steel film.
Here is my 7-step plan to save the DC/WB franchise:
1.
Stop the DCEU and have auteur filmmakers take over to write/direct/edit standalone DC movies with their chosen creative team.
2.
Get creative genius Terry Gilliam (The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, Brazil, The Brothers Grimm, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, The Fisher King, Tideland, Time Bandits, Twelve Monkeys) to tell us his alternative take on the origins and self-discovering journey of Solomon Grundy.
3.
Get visual geniuses Jean-Pierre Jeunet and Marc Caro (The City of Lost Children, Alien: Resurrection, Amélie, Dante 01, Micmacs) to send the nightmare character The Corinthian out of The Sandman comics on a murder spree to obtain or re-obtain some MacGuffin and let bloodshed, gore, gruesomeness and hilarity ensue in a screwballsy, shockingly screwed-up, slapsticky, supernatural slasher horror kind of way.
4.
Get surrealist comedy director Michel Gondry (Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Science of Sleep, Be Kind Rewind, The Green Hornet) to make a black comedy feel-good road movie called All in a Day's Work, based on the character Death out of The Sandman comics, in which she travels 24 hours on foot and by various other means of transportations through and between several global major cities, meets and collects souls of comically or tragically deceasing characters, briefly conversing with them in short banters or flirts, arguments or songs, moments of confession, discussion, self-reflection, solace, or philosophying, maybe even the odd dance number or shared favourite activity of the deceased as ghosts before they have to leave this mortal plane for good or worse.
5.
Get action genius Kathryn Bigelow (Strange Days, The Hurt Locker) to direct an almost no-brains, high-octane Batman of Zur-En-Arrh beat-em-up arcade game styled action flick in which he has to face an insanely huge rogue gallery of campy weirdo supervillains one after the other in a ridiculously trashy plot. Let her do it however the fuck she wants, just make her go over the top with the violence.
6.
Get quirky and lovable character writer/director genius Greta Gerwig (Lady Bird, Little Women, Barbie) to give us her own take on the Batgirl character in an alternate universe of her own choosing. Let's watch her take it to some strange and wondrous places!
7.
Bring new talents to the franchise, as long as they have interesting pitches that shed new light on a DC character, have proven to be creative in character development for a genre movie before or are great at visual world building.
Listening to the wannabe alpha male ubermenschen reactionary basement dwelling white incel suburban loser bubble is never a good idea. They need to get at least a modicum of potty training, common courtesy, civilised discourse and media competence first.
Hearing David Zaslav’s name rn is like hearing Michael Eisner’s name in an old Defunctland video where Disney fails its creatives and fans.
If they do not rerelease a physical copy of Over the Garden Wall after taking it off HBO and only available on Hulu, I hope all involved develop mild sleep apnea because only fools take it off their own home streaming service before autumn arrives
Vibes and Rizz alone 😭🧊.
speaking of DCU, I went and saw Blue Beetle this weekend because it was the only English showing of anything at my local cinema here in France and we had one free ticket, and my god, I was pleasantly surprised, it was cringy in some parts but only in a telenovela kind of way, lol, and thank god I was there because there was so much cultural stuff my French husband had absolutely no reference to, since I was born and raised in California and even though my Spanish was always horrible, I knew most of the Spanish media references in the film, even the show from Thalia, lol, and so I was able to explain it my husband.
As a supporter of creatives it is extremely sick how everyone relished in Zack Snyder's personal situation from 'fans' to the studio its why I find it hard to root for them now. DC should have just made a Man of Steel sequel with updates from the critiques but alas. I'm glad we got Birds of Prey though🤷🏽♀
This is my first time coming across this channel, but damn you hit the nail on the head here. I was a little surprised you didn’t talk about the trainwreck vanity project that is Black Adam in connection to Shazam, but this video was thorough enough as is. DC needs to get their act together and I hope James Gunn & Peter Safran (along with their teams) are the people to do it. Fingers crossed!
Love your style and videos, greetings from Brazil 💚💛
LOL Not “Using Luffy Methods” 😂 That’s definitely entering my lexicon! I’ve definitely been sticking to Strawhat-ing DCEU & MCU output for a while & that’s only if I’m halfway interested in seeing it to start with. So many of these recent projects have just not been worth the effort to keep up with in earnest.
JUSTICE FOR BIRDS OF PREY FR
8:00 what?? I absolutely want to see a brutal Diana,, her action scenes in animated media are some of my favorite bc of how effective she is at fighting…from the JL cage match to her super move in Injustice, that’s my bread and butter 🫡
The biggest problem with the DCEU is their lack of patience and planning.
I had no idea they are making a sequel to aquaman, I remember watching the first one with my brother, we had so much it's an amazing movie
I think marketing has played a big part in these newer DC films failing than the writing. They've been poorly marketed, and covid didn't help either
@@bri1085yah it was delayed like almost 2 years I think?
It's kept being delayed and WB is rumored to be broke since they are in so much debt paying debt collectors so marketing of it seems poor right noe
@@bri1085the primary reason why they're failing is because audience is just not interested anymore. They want a fresh start.
Luffy Methods was so clever that I didn't get it until like a minute later. God tier.
I think what hurts to a degree is you have a reactionary company that never really set put and planned. They said this will get $X and then pivoted hard to try and say "we learned our lesson"... I'm waiting to see a real plan and consistency now since they won't respond to my tweets offering help to map it all out lol
Back with a banger and also your makeup looks very good in this video!
Yes!! Birds of Prey is one of my favorite DCEU movies! I own the Blu Ray, the soundtrack and even the freaking tie in magazine haha
The problem with Shazam is they put it out two weeks before avengers endgame. I will never understand why Warner Bros. did the movie dirty like that. If they would’ve held off and put it in August, I think it could have been a sleeper hit to satisfy hunger for superhero content. Or here’s a novel idea - put the Christmas movie out at Christmas time! No one wants to see a Christmas movie in April, even beyond the conflict with Endgame.
My hot take for the second Wonder Woman is that it should have been gay. There, I said it. The chemistry between Diana and Barbara was there. The pop 80s aesthetic would fit it better if the whole point was to shift the tone because Diana herself was exploring another part of her.
Ashley C. Ford is so good, I got to meet her at my campus during her book tour for "Somebody's Daughter". Also I couldn't watch WWII because of the anti-Arab narrative among other things, Flash again for "obvious reasons", and then Shazam 2 was kind of set to fail *looking at you Zachary Levi*.
out of all the things weve lost I'm most hurt by not getting the last half of the final season to Doom Patrol. That show has gone soooooo underappreciated! The Harley Quinn animated series has been amazing tho and im def wondering what will happen with Peacemaker goin forward.
Edit: also also the damn brenden fraser disrespect has not gone unseen DZ! lol (removing bat girl and doom patrol not getting its ending)
I also really enjoyed Shazam and all the while I thought the movie that was important there was the story between Billy and his mom, but that no studio would greenlight a low budget family drama, so they had to dress it up as a superhero fighting demons kinda movie. All the worst things about it were the Shazam part. And then they just doubled down on that in the sequel. Zacary levi must be malding if he thinks his character is worth anything without Billy.
That opening was nice and uncompromising, the way it should be.
These execs and producers have the blueprint of what these characters should be from their Animated films and TV shows. Diana Prince in the animated series is the most complete version of the character and how I think the character should be. Why can't they see that. The reason MCU and DCEU is flopping are because of people like the ones at 8:13 with complete lack of touch, they should make movies that fans want to see. With care and attention given to the characterization that's consistent (established through the animated series) and not run of the mill marvel humor. Why not build a universe around your strongest IP, your animated series, DC?!
I agree so much with your points..., although I didn't like Birds of Prey at all? In part because of the naming issues, but also it feels messy to me. I really wanted to like it, tho :(
That Courage the Cowardly Dog reference is why I'll always support you!
I'mma say it. Chris pines character should not have been the one Wonder woman wish to come back. It should have been her warrior aunt played by Robin wright! She's the one she grew up with and she's the one who died in her arms! Chris pine was just some dude! Could you imagine the reverse fish out of water narrative of Wonder woman having to explain to her warrior aunt (possibly still in the body of a man.. cuz why not I guess) how the '80s works! That would have been worlds better! It would have been dumb but it would have been fun. And not full of sexual assault...
My personal gripe with the DCU is how badly it wanted to be “dark MCU” but not dark enough to make an impactful movie and also not putting enough effort into how they want to connect the movies to actually make it a series. I am a strong believer that the DCU we’ve had would’ve worked so much better if they had just let each movie be their own thing. Like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam are great as standalones, once they crossed them over with other characters it just got….weird. The Joker, The Batman, The Suicide Squad, and Birds of Prey (to a lesser degree) are also excellent examples of stand alones. Another huuuge problem is that since these stories are so independent from one another that when you stick Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman in one room they have 0 chemistry. The thing that made the mcu work as long as it did was that in all the casting decisions they took into consideration how well each actor from the different movies would work together. I’m super interested to see what James Gunn’s gonna do now with this franchise
DC had the opportunity in batgirl to be a huge part of the return of Brendan Fraser and they just... didn't.
I'm not going to base my understanding of any character on Zach Snyder's interpretation. Snyder's Wonder Woman kills? Sure, but so does his Batman, Superman, and even Jimmy Olson. Murdering is the default setting for characters in a Zach Snyder story.
Yeah,, it's hard to not look at Discovery bad. Like the way they just gave up on the old DC stuff was _brutal_ . And it's really hard not to suspect they wanted to get rid of the more "PC"-looking stuff, what with nuking Batgirl, desperately hedging it all on Flash, and ignoring Blue Beetle and Aquaman, which I hate... But heck, maybe the hard reset will give something good, even if the original one didn't deserve to end like this.
I think you might be right on them trying to get rid of the "PC"-stuff given how both DC and Marvel somehow find ways to screw up any work that has a lead that ISN'T a cishet white man.
Also, just their half-assed handling of real topics by trying to apply the two-dimension "good vs evil" narrative for social issues that are way more complex.
WW84 was like an episode of Lynda Carter show.