60 lines 2 turn scanning holes spiral NBTV monitor
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2010
- Technical data:
signal source - wav audio file, 96 kilosamples per second
60 lines
3:4 aspect ratio
12.5 fps
line sync - sync pulses actuate negative feedback sync circuit
frame sync - manual
1500 rpm disc speed
about 4" image size after magnification
motor - sewing machine universal type motor
no integral circuits used for video and sync 
Наука
![CENTRAL CEE - GEN Z LUV [VERTICAL VIDEO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VIbidJm9q34/mqdefault.jpg)
even with the sync issues, I'm impressed how much detail you can still make out with a 60p picture
It would seem like our brain is adding pixels at the right places to make it seem higher res than it actually is.
@@DesertVox The moving image itself is interlaced with movement and has better resolution. If you were to take a photo of this painting (a still image), you might not recognize what is in the painting. This old TV display trick does not apply to today's screens, which must have full display capacity.
They don’t use pixels they use scan lines
Thank you everybody! After all, the best thing about this hobby is to get feedback from others!
It's amazing this technology existed so long ago with something as simple as a quickly blinking light and a spinning disc.
Given the loud mechanical components involved, it's no surprise it never caught on. A screen the size of a small portable tv would require a disc that's 75 feet wide. XD
you made that? respect!! this is oddly exciting. I almost feel what it was like for people when tv first came out. 😎
The irony is that "Magic Rays of Light" is a reconstruction of the BBC's Marconi system launch night, filmed the following day, all choreographed for the cinema as an ad. There was no way to record the original so no attempt was made.
I know the limits of mechanical televisions of this format, and even if you cut a line with a drum, you will need a parallel helix on a Nipkow disk. The holes in the disc are large and round (check at the beginning of the video) and the image is very stable, detailed and clear. My hypothesis is that there is a thin transparent VGA LCD display in the mask that is illuminated through the drum and the Nipkow disk. In that case, it is sufficient to send the image with sound from the PC without converting. The drum and Nipk's disk take care of the flickering effect. As a demonstration for children, very good. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
Reminds me of the old days of adjusting the horizontal slew
it was the same thing just was a horizonal scan instead
Wonderful design! I admire!
Спасибо! Thanks indeed!
Vintage-technics.ru. Your voice is so mumbled - -
Jeffrey314159 You've replied to the wrong person.
Just beautiful! I love how it is taking the signal from a modern-day computer. It's like the present is in communication with the past. Very cool. When you turned the sound on, that was when it got especially exciting. My grandfather worked for the FCC. He told me about early televisions that used a spinning disc, but I never thought I would see one. Thank you! I gave you a thumbs-up and subscribed.
You did a brilliant Job. That is the 1st Nipkov disc I saw with such amazing picture. Just lovely.
Excellent! A technical masterpiece! Great work, I'm very impressed!
Very clever, lovely picture, the best I have seen from so few lines, you have performed magic. Thanks for posting!
The days when televisions were loud and lawn mowers were quiet.
Amazing, simple and ingeniously designed.
The best mechanical tv I ever see
HI wonderful work..not only have you made it from scratch its your own design something to be proud of ...i like that you have made your own case as well ...drives me nuts when i see old radios turned into nbtvs.
I think it's so amazing how these TVs work.
Magic rays of light. Thank you.
@force311999 Light efficiency of the Nipkow technology is extremely low, so for projection on a screen you need a very powerful light source modulated by video signal. It's hard to make, so for projection tv more complex devices were once used: lens disc, mirror drum, Mihaly-Traub scanner, etc.
It was so long ago, I am not sure I have all the details... Any way, there was circuitry published in NBTV forum, under my thread "alternative synchronization". In this TV in particular it was even harder, since 2 motors were used. One AC sewing machine motor - for the drive, another DC motor - for the sync.
And, most important, my circuitry is NOT PLL type. There is some more complex, but more reliable Phase Lock Loop sync described in NBTV site. What type of sync are you trying to build?
Absolutely great. Your synchronization is incredibly stable. If you had used a slower shutter speed on your camera the presentation would have not had the cross sync lines scrolling through the picture. I would like to see it the way you see it . This same thing happens when filming all television screens when shot using the wrong shutter speed.
@albertusj The disc was made by means of the special jig, mechanical device which allows to precisely punch the disc material where the holes should be. Then I drilled the holes by hand using 0.6mm drill bit.
INCREDIBLE!!!!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
👍😆
Amazing craftmanship, I think I understood the way the display works, and the second shutter tube is one incredible idea to downsize the disk.
I also believe the image must be a lot better seen live, still flickering but without the annoying black line.
Even so, if we consider that this image is made only with a single lamp, some holes (and in your case) a plastic cilinder with some shutters... it's awesome!
What I don't understand is how you record the image signal, you should have a similar setup on the recording side to convert the image to a electric audio signal, or am I wrong?
Or did you use your setup in two phases?
First with a LDR instead of a lamp to record the signal, save it as audio on the computer, and then play it again to the lamp to have a image?
You sir are one incredible artist! Congratulations.
Thanks for your comment. If you are interested, you can find more information on this technology on NBTV site and forum. Regarding your question about the source signal, it's digital audio file. I did not build any camera, the signal was not recorded but converted from digital video.
The recording side of things was basically a reverse of the TV. The subject would be placed in a black, lightproof box. A nipkov disc and a single light source would then be activated, with the light passing through the disc, onto the subject. Because the disc spun, it had the effect that the light scanned the subject. This was converted into an electric signal, by bouncing the light back of the subject, hitting light sensors and being converted into an electric signal that could be transmitted via radio waves.
Of course, this was limited. You were basically restricted to using that for on-air continuity announcements. The footage shown is from the opening night of the world's first regular television service - BBC Television - in 1936.They were trialing two television systems - the mechanical Baird system seen here, and the all-electronic Marconi-EMI system. Baird's system produced a television image of 240 lines of definition. Marconi-EMI's produced 405 lines (this was considered as "high definition" by the standards of the day).
Because the BBC was essentially forced to trial both systems for the next few months, the opening night of television (a live performance) was performed twice - once for Baird, once for Marconi-EMI. The same material was used for both performances. This included dancing, a duet, and piano music. None of these could be achieved by filming in a blacked out studio, using Baird's scanning-disc camera. In order to capture those parts of the opening night, the Baird Company devised a machine where the performance was captured on 16mm film, processed, developed, projected, and then scanned using the Nipkov disc camera system, with a delay of only four seconds from the actual performance. This system actually introduced multiple points of failure, in that it relied upon multiple moving parts, film being pulled through at high speed, and baths of acid and formaldehyde to develop the film so that could be scanned and transmitted. Technicans working at Alexandra Palace (the original home of BBC Television) found that they had to wear gas masks, or risk passing out from the fumes.
The initial trial run off the two systems was supposed to last for six months. In effect, the BBC cancelled it after three, because the electronic Marconi-EMI system was simply far more reliable and simple to use.
In 1938, early electronic BBC Television transmissions were picked up by RCA in Long Island, New York. Television was shut down in Britain for the duration of WWII, and resumed in 1946. Television got its real baptism of fire with the live coverage of the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II in 1953. The huge uptake of sets for that event meant the government saw fit to establish a 2nd television network - a commercial network - in 1954. The 405 we system was finally shut down in 1985. The 625 line PAL television standard was adopted in Britain in 1962, with the opening of Britain's 3rd television network, BBC 2 (BBC Television being retitled BBC 1). Baird's system was never adopted in any country, but he did continue to refine the process, doing pioneering work with colour and signal quality.
@@boblowes Good summary. However, it was already known in the 1930s that the Nipků disk on the sensing side would never provide enough light for the photodetector (this is known even today). The only method that was tried was the one you mention - a Nipkow disk as a light source and a photodetector as an external camera in a box with a person. Therefore, the wet film method was adopted - a scene was shot with a regular film camera (they were perfect at the time) and the film immediately went through the wet development process. Immediately, the film field was lined with a Nipko disk, which had only one hole! The line feed ensured the motion of the film, which was not jerky. Ingenious. It was very reminiscent of the later magnetic Ampex. The delay was about 5-8 minutes during the live broadcast. The advantage of this combined recording was the repetition of reruns. A camera with a Nipkow disc does not exist. With current technologies, it would be possible to shoot with a Nipkow disk, but it has no historical support - except for Baird, no one directly decomposed an image with a Nipkow disk, and therefore such cameras do not exist. The picture was always taken with film and decomposition with one hole.
@@DL-kc8fc I'm not sure if it's still intact or not, but in a program celebrating the birth of television, screened on the BBC a few years ago, they did indeed build a replica Baird camera system. It took a lot of educated guesses, as no diagrams of Baird's camera system exist from the time. But, they spoke to surviving assistants and the actual on-screen continuity announcer who had to sit in the booth. Prompting the continuity announcer was replicated in exactly the same way - poking him in the small of the back with a broom-handle, via a hole drilled in the booth.
@@boblowes Yes, you've already described this thing and I agree - it was a cabin with a person sitting in it, and the Nipkow disk was the light source (light hogs flashed across the person's face). The photodetector measured the intensity of the reflected light. That's all right and this has actually been reconstructed. But the Nipkow camera doesn't really exist like a camera on a tripod, etc. It's a problem even today. Therefore, in the 1930s, it was handled with wet film, which was scanned with a single-hole disc and the line feed produced a jerk-free (no Maltese cross) moving film. I had a problem making a Nipkow camera (I have a 26 line German TV from the 1930s). Then I found out that such a camera did not exist and it was solved with a film camera and a rotary scan. In order to demonstrate this system in schools, I converted a small image (using PC software) into an audio signal (it's only 6-8kHz) and played it from an old tape recorder. The motor of the tape recorder was connected to the disk of the Nipkow reel, so I did not have to deal with synchronization (after starting the demo the image flew - it was not synchronized, but it was enough to brake the reel with your finger and let the magnetic tape slide for a while). My friend had a better period system - an old TV tube camera from the 1950s, which was synchronized by a Nipkow TV motor (the Nipkow TV asynchronous motor produced sawtooth signals that controlled the tube camera imagewise. The picture was perfect and it also suited the capabilities of the time. This friend is on YT, but does not communicate.
Amazing, simply amazing :D
Ironic that the film used for the demo is a reconstruction of the 1936 opening ceremony of the BBC's electronic service- the technology that supplanted mechanical scanning by disk or mirror drum.
@pvx Yes, you understood exactly how it works.
Thats just wonderful
Great stuff!
Fascinating!
@brittman914 Thanks for your comments!
I have no specially made drawings or step-by -step directions for building one of those, but there is a lot of documentation about the long process of building the Televizors on NBTV forum website.
My user name there is holtzman, so everybody is welcome to visit there and to find descriptions of my TVs, along with other's works.
@computersolutions164 Ahh, a form of electro-mechanical interlacing, quite an ingenious design...!
Wow the picture is pretty good
Well done!
Wonderful! How fun! Next make quieter.
This is some crazy resolution for this technology.
What exactly is the Make and Model of this TV? I'd like to see a diagram that explains how the picture is drawn exactly.
Pretty cool!
@pvx Very similar to today's odd and even field line numbering. One spiral is used for lines 2,4,6,8...
and the other spiral is used for lines 1,3,5,7,9.....
Здравствуйте, каким образом вы соорудили тот барабан, что вращался по горизонтали?
So, if I understand things here, the commutator rolling around the light source is being used as a shutter for the light source to alternate between the 2 spirals of holes on the disc?
I want to build a mechanical tv sometime, but I was wondering, did you use 2 disks? I heard that can improve the image quality .
Marvellous!
very good work...
How are you doing the video sync? Phase locked loop with an opto? Or direct control of AC motor?
Whow! If only I could be there in person to see that, because with the flicker of the light from that combined with the scan rate of your camera and/or our screen here, the picture is likely more jittery here than it looks in person. I'd surely love to see that in person or at least have a way to compensate for the differences in scan rate between the different pieces of equipment.
But now think about DLP for a minute! I bet you that most people don't realize how mechanical today's projection TVs and projectors--that is, projectors that use digital light processing instead of just an LCD--actually are! It's unbelievable that there are between 2 million and 33 million (depending on standard 2K HD or 4K or 8K UHD--at least if there are even any 8Ks that would use DLP, or if that's been phased out by now) tiny mirrors that somehow flip back and forth to generate a picture!
And then think of how amazing it is that slightly old DLPs like mine here (just over 4 years is all, as I write this), and even older ones, use a wheel somewhat reminiscent of this one--only with color filters instead of holes--that's perfectly timed with the mirrors to form the color in the picture! So it's amazing how mechanical our technology has gone *back* to being (at least if we choose DLP over LCD or plasma)!
On the homefront, I think DLP is on its way out now, but in big movie theater projection, it's still very alive and well, isn't it? Or have they started making those big 4K/8K projectors with LCDs now?
Thanks, Cindy Schafer (although I don't see the one that I should +tag), for your +1!
Happy Halloween!
Maxx Fordham! Projectors are still based on DLP for the most part he even the ones used in offices and such primarily due to the Heat versus LCD problem not that dlp's have no heat issues. As led technology for light sources goes up the heat value of course be reduced.
Impressive!
@computersolutions164 No, it is not an interlaced system. Interlace has no advantages with such a low line number - those who tried it say this. In mechanical tv systems it was used only with lens discs, in order to make it possible to mount larger lens.
In interlaced disc, there should be 2 or more spirals, half a turn each. I use 1, which goes 2 turns. And the reason is, this way I get twice smaller disc with given picture size.
@holtzman72 Very impressed
@pvx Yes that's exactly what is happening but without seeing the disk it is difficult to tell without looking at the spacing and position of the holes. The result however is first rate.
i'd love to make one - assuming the author can give me a disk template please.
@davrosteleman Thanks Daniel, I must say your works inspired me in my NBTV experiments.
The disk has 60 scanning holes, 30 + 30, arranged into 2 spirals. There are 30 sync holes, too. Some time after taking this video I tried to widen the scanning holes for brighter picture, and this ruined the resolution. Some of the parts were taken for the next monitor, so now this one is not in working condition... If I was making it now, I would rather use a stepper to drive the drum.
"The Magic Rays of Light."
Wow tv from Alexandra palace!!
?
thats amazing
Try one with even smaller holes and a magnification system - play around with those things and speed variations, and the commutator. It'd be interesting to see if you could make sort of a diesel punk colour mechanical televisor.
this is impressive
Amazing
This is amazing! I would love to make one of these. Do you have any sketches or more details on this?
Philo T. Farnsworth patented his All Electronic Television system in 1923
Awesome
Is that a 3 phase motor? The startup sounds familiar
This is by far the best mechanical TV i have seen. I would like to build one if you have plans or drawings to make this. I'm assuming you are using two channel audio, one channel for video and one for mono audio. I'm still not sure If I completely understand the interlacing details or what apparatus you use for recording these fantastic videos.
Congratulations! A question: That annoying scanning (black bar going up all time) is produced to cause of it is shutter of camera used does not match with sequencial lines of your mechanical tv..? In other words, if I watch your invent in person i will see it much better, without those interferences..? Hugs from Stgo. Chile
The frame rate is 12.5 fps and what you see is annoying flicker, but no black bars. Unfortunately it's impossible to watch in RUclips as it is in real life. The flicker is bearable but worse than that of regular CRT TV.
@@holtzman72 the frame rate is 12.5 fr./sec. but the disk turns at 25 rev./sec. What about the shutter drum ?
The line sync IS automatic, it controls rpm by means of opto-fork.
Классный аппарат, он самодельный?
Great job, but its not very clear where the second row is.
Is it under the first row in your video?
I just see one row of light/white holes.
Thanks.
It is a continuous spiral, and as there are 2 turns, there are 2 rows of holes visible. The commutator hides one of them at a time.
Первый телевизор. Крутяк) Жаль видео плохого качества. Ниче не видно
Первый телевизор был на 32 линии развертки. А это уже второе поколение, 60 линий, черезстрочная развертка. Качество в два раза лучше, чем у первых моделей 😂
Very nice! I've often wondered if it would be possible to have multiple spirals on a Nipkow disc to reduce the diameter. Also, at 1:06 it looks like your equipment is a smiling at us! Appears to have an emo hair cut too....
Remember when you had to wait for the TV to warm up?
класс молодец
First Rate! I would have to stick to just a 32 hole disk if I build a monitor. A rig like this is too high tech for me. Are you going to offer plans or a kit for this set in the future?
Super
Is to be making for glorious security monitor of turnip factory!!!
I assume the chopper behind the nipkow disc in front of the light is used to reduce flicker by artificially increasing the picture refresh rate? Yours have the nicest picture of many ones I've seen on youtube so far.
It's got a very nice, clear picture. How did you manage to make such a high quality disc?
Cool
крутяк)
No, the scan is progressive. Actually there is one set of holes, arranged in two turns of a spiral. Interlace does not improve the image quality in NBTV.
but where the hdmi port?
а модель телевизора какая?
Oh whow, until I got to the point where you showed me the light bulb, I didn't realize that there were actually TWO spinning parts: the disc and that cylinder! I guess that commutator is like a shutter on a projector. Isn't it?
No. It compensator. Some systems use 30 (32,24...) holes other holes interlaced 2x30 (32,24...) - depending from the broadcasting station. For example, very bad but good for understanding - the PAL and SECAM :-)
This guy says it's a commutator, Christof Yves, like the slotted contact rotor on a standard DC motor.
You are right. The second spinning part is needed to eliminate the second spiral on the nipkow disc. Otherwise the disc should be twice as big as it is now, very bulky. Only one standard is possible with given disc/shutter set, 60 lines.
There is no make or model, it is completely DIY. Made in 2010 :) For details, you can visit NBTV site, or search for Nipkow disc.
The picture like in smartphone:)))
Masksim, how do you convert your videos to 60 lines, what software do you use
I used a special software developed by NBTV enthusiast. It was downloadable from his site for free. Now the site does not exist, but there are links on NBTV forum: www.taswegian.com/NBTV/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2745
You need Video2NBTV software to convert, and some NBTV viewer to watch what you've converted.
@@holtzman72 I have the video2NBTV but it’s only good for 30 to 32 lines, how do we make it 60 lines and more?
Thanks
There should be later version, try to check out these links. If you cannot find, I'll try to find on my computer.
@@holtzman72 I will try, thanks so much
hook it up to ps4 or xboc one and you have a mechanical gaming tv.. el oh el
In Russia, you do not watch television. Television watches YOU.
круто интересно ,это DIY?
@pvx aaah it's interlaced. I think I get it.
Да)
actually you couldd broaddcast these kindds of TV signals over AM radio.
Amazing technology for it's day. Mechanical TV was bound to fail. Too many moving parts.
Especially when the moving parts would need to be bigger than your house to get a usefully large display!
"Too many moving parts" -- I heard that so often, it now sounds like nothing else than bunkum for me. My father have an old car which is 40 years old now, still working fine despite nothing else than "moving parts". He also have an old pocket watch which is now 60 years old, also working fine. Buy a computer or a digital watch, and you will see how long they last compared to these "heaps of moving parts".
@PutitAway101 : That's a bit sensationalist, it'd only have parts bigger than your house if it had a retarded design. More likely it'd be something around the size seen above with a projection system.
But simple and amazing.
Bound to fail?
It was success, it was improved upon and evolved into what we have today.
Ben Heck tried to replicate this item together with it's receiver without too much luck.
why not make it a cylinder and put the spiral around that to compact it
or 2 cylinders which spin a piece of black plastic like a conveyor, giving a flat surface for the holes.
Funny you say that as he did that years ago here ruclips.net/video/EXpA9HNiyHg/видео.html
Robonza wow thanks, that's fascinating
Yes, possibly one of the coolest mechanical TVs I have seen. I only discovered these things 3 months ago. A new hobby for now!
It looks like what you did was take an existing old manufactured set and modified it. Am I right? Because it would have taken you too much money to have tooled up for the plastic parts you have there, right?
No, I designed and built this set by myself. It did not take much money at all, all the gears you see there are from dump old VCRs or printers. The big motor is from an old sewing machine found in front of a garbage container, near my house.
You are right about the shutter, but there is no projection in my TV - only a magnifying lens. And of course if you see the picture in person there is much better quality, more definition and less flicker. However, the flicker is still THE problem.
The 12.5 fps rate is quite low, probably it was less annoying back in the 1920-ties: a neon bulb was very dim, and a human eye is less sensitive to flicker at such weak light levels.
I was wondering about the flicker thing... I've never seen a mechanical TV play in person or on film, but have only seen examples through RUclips, and digital cameras and the TV screens that the cameras recorded can't seem to always sync and the TV's picture usually looks terribly flickery with wiggly-squiggly half-images or broken images, etc in the recording. Your set's picture looks absolutely excellent when the camera/screen sync-rates match.
It's very fascinating, that classic technology, and kudos to you for building such technology so awesomely with a mixture of modern materials and junk parts. I just found your channel and subbed and am looking forward to seeing more. Thanks for sharing, Maksim Holtzman. :-)
sounds like your in a plane
Turn It into a steam punk creation !
How about some “ Three Stooges”?
I feel like I am in the 1930s
Это самодельный аппарат!
Ох и шумит. Звиздец просто.
steampunk af
I know how a TV with a small Nipkow disk works in combination with a rotating drum. That's why something bothers me there - the absence of a multi-pass helix - the drum blades have a special interleaving function relative to the disc, which allows you to operate a small disc with a large and good image. Either the author of the project is a genius or a fraud. )))