Filippi vs Nelo and a video analysis of very good sculling
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- This Video Analysis actually is not so much about comparing both boats, but about a very talented young rower, namely Tamas Bence from Hungary.
In his 1000m timed pieces, he raced the Nelo first and got a 3:29, then he went for the Filippi and did a 3:28 (both hand stopped , while his coach, Attila, also drove the motor launch and held the video camera)
For me, this footage seems to point towards comparable speed in both boats, rather than one being significantly faster.
Music in this video: Purple - Veshza
Footage: Attila Lorincz
Rower: Tamas Bence
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I'm from Portugal, and I have used a Nelo a lot this season. The boat just flows beautifully and compared to the empacher that I used to row in it feels a way faster when you start a race and when you need a big finish . The Nelo just loses a bit the speed during the Race. In that point empacher was better, because you can sustain a good waterline and speed during the Race.
Nelo feels a lot lighter in the water than the empacher. You feel the Nelo rushing the water and getting away, while in the empacher you dont feel that as much. For training sessions I prefer the Nelo ( 'cause It's really comfortable to row, and you never get tired of that ), but to a 2k or more race I personally prefer the empacher. Less than 1000 meter or even 1000 meter races I prefer Nelo.
Good video!
Keep the good job
Dear Aran
Thanks again for this good footage!
I agree with your comment on a bit to much drama at the catch and finish.
If I can make a suggestion for an exercise for Tamas.....
Let him row at about 50-60% of his power but at the same stroke rate.
He will feel that he must be subtle at both ends of the stroke.
Then gradually row with more power, keeping the same subtlety in catch and finish. The boat will move more evenly
I dare Tamas to row a 1K at 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100% at the same stroke rate and compare times.......
PS I would love to try the Nelo some time....
Greetings
Rob Kluvers,
Ins&Outs Rowing
rob Kluvers where are you Rob? Maybe I can put you in touch with someone......
Pete Spivey
Yes! Sure!!
Which country?
The Netherlands
rob Kluvers then you need to speak to Rob Heeres.....eurow.com.....
Seems to me that he is rating about 1-2 points higher in the Filippi than in the Nelo (13:20) and also I'd ask how many outings the athlete has done in each boat before doing this comparison. Because he will feel more secure / reliable / comfortable in the boat that he's more used to. I suggest Attila get it re-done at a fixed rate.
I’d posted below but just to reply to your point, I have tested the Nelo and it’s a surprisingly stable boat - jumping in to run my test I was immediately comfortable and able to hit the prescribed power output for the test with significant impact on catch/finish angles or slip/wash numbers so I think it’s a pretty fair test even if he’d literally just jumped in and gone
I tested a 75kg NELO last weekend during EUROW (International Masters Regatta, Linz / Austrian Open).
On Friday I did all the settings. Won my M 1X D qualification heat saturday with best time over both heats...didn´t expect this in a rental boat!
Sundays final I finished with a silver medal - just 1 sec behind Pete Spivey, the austrian NELO representant (in a NELO - sure).
Not too bad for me rowing first time in that boat!
With quick acceleration there is no oszillating bouncing like most other hulls I know. The boat doesn´t nod over the longitudal axis - it dips slightly over the full lenght. And my impression was: that´s the main difference to other hulls.
Concernig this comparison: NELO: wing riggers / FILPPI: two stay riggers (not traditional ones). That's not a big difference, there is no deflection of the pin and application of force into the hull is in the same direction.
@John Martin and RowingChat: yes, lower stroke rate in a NELO seems to be important, I also was 2-3 strokes lower. But can´t tell you why...
The NELO is really stable against sideways rolling motion...that´s true...important for fast starts.
roticelander I think we set your oars at 284? You mentioned 283 so maybe that’s the reason for lower stroke rate? I think I rated higher than you, not sure....
Watch from 1:30 on in the video below , the Nelo bounces its way down the course , Mendes is working harder, and rowing better than Graves just to maintain speed , he ends up falling off the pace. This is Tom Graves not John who is the faster of the family at this time. Also Pedro Fraga the Nelo rep utilized Filippi at the last World Cup were Nelo was a vendor ruclips.net/video/XsPU7dl5JpQ/видео.html
@@mondseerc1 Yes, possibly it was this centimeter in total scull length.
The Nelo is dolphining bow down at finish and stern down at catch.Critical difference between a canoe and a scull is the body weight does not travel in a canoe.
David Martin Both sculls are rocking a bit due to physical forces....in the Nelo he needs to move rigger and feet forward by a few centimeters to keep the bow under the water.....it’s not a kayak....it feels very much like a fast racing shell when you row one......
@@mondseerc1 yes I agree I row in a nelo and it feels amazing and the boat runs very smoothly and it stays very steady in wash
But much less than Filippi
The boat comparison matches my own findings, using an empower oarlock to match rate and power input I got the same time over 1000m in my usual fluid vs the Nelo that I jumped in to test - obviously this test is only really relevant for me and my technique, others should do their own test as everyone’s different, but they’re good boats
The difference I see between Thomas rowing in fillips and Nelo is that a rower locks better/cleaner at the catch. Maybe because it is more stable which gives a more comfortable position at the catch and his body moves a little less forward and back up.
You should probably also mention that he was in a wake in the Filippi piece, while he had perfect water in the Nelo.
He bounces both boats, but the Nelo appears to create less of a bow wave. It's hard to tell.
The rowing in the Nelo boat seems to me smoother,it's like the catch and the wash out is softer. Maybe it's just me or the footage. But if you think about the shape of the Filippi boat,that is basically bullet shaped,and the shape of the Nelo boat,that has a flatted rectangular shape,there will be for sure some differences
How long has he been in both shells? 1 second faster in the Nelo without proper water time and setup says a lot. Nelo also appears to be running more efficiently at a 1 pip lower rate?
Filippi is his standard boat
What was the athlete opinion if I may ask.
He said that he would need more time to get used to the Nelo.
He does look smoother in the Nelo but I don't think this is a fair comparison beacause the Filippi doesn't have wing riggers. I used to row in a filippi with tubular carbon riggers and, although it was a very fast boat, it was very uncomfortable because the rails were too close together and they kept digging into my calves. Swapping to a boat with wing riggers made everything more comfortable
Says an Fillipi owner. 😁
This sounds like a problem with the position of your slides and has nothing to do with what type of rigger the boat has... you can adjust the slide position from inside the center hole in the boat using the wing nuts
@@beefneckmurphy4785 And then you loose length
A. van Wijk again, not a problem with whether or not the boat has a wing rigger or not
@@beefneckmurphy4785 There seems to be a miscommunication between us, it seems now that you are saying that a shorter stroke length does not influence the speed of the boat-rower system, and that I don't understand.
For me one difference is the frequency which is 1,5 strokes per minutes less in the nelo compared to second ride in the Filippi. So Nelo seems to be a bit more efficient.
Do you have some stats stuffs to compare Nelo singlescull to Empacher and Filippi one ? Cordialy
No. I doubt there will ever be something available that makes sense
,,,slightly more pause after catch/before power on in nelo I think
flippi vs empacher ?
What is one boat for mens heavy weight? 85-100
WTF Vargas there is a 60, 75, 90 and 105 Option.
Buenas correcciones
Why can’t you just have a rower row both boats same watts, same stroke rate and see how many meters per stroke the boats travel? The Filippi looks like it runs out better at the beginning of the recovery than the Nelo, but like you said, that can just be optics, especially with that straight wave-cutting bow on the Nelo.
This is not a test but community training footage. Of course your suggested procedure would tell us more. People would find points again, though.
Based on the 3 point "euro" style rigger, that Filippi is likely over 15 years old. This is not a fair comparison at all, and it appears you're saying that a new Nelo is almost as good as a 15 year old Filippi? If you're going to do public comparisons, please make sure it's a fair comparison. For everyone's sake, especially the boat makers.
Filippe rowing looks much better! Maybe fine tuning the Nelo would help.
Rating higher in the filippi to get same (ish) result!
I dont think this is a fair comparison. Old Filippi with euro riggers vs new NELO
I owned a 90Kg for 3-4 months, horrible experience. I was 205 lbs 6' 2" and the bow of the boat was diving so bad I was collecting weeds on my bow ball. IMHO the rigger was not able to be positioned towards stern enough. I also could not lower the C-Cups and the boat rowed very high. I sold it to a 190 lb rower at a discount and worked well for him.
'the fillipi occilates and doesnt accomodate the thorough stroke range, compare the water on front decks?
the nelo accomodates thorough stroke range....
It might be that some athletes cope better with standard hull shapes while others need Nelo's shape.
At the end of the day this boat will be successful if the price point is correct and if its design and manufacture hold up to use and time. The thing about a Fillipi is that you can bash it to hell and its pretty much the same after 5 years. Remains to be seen if that's the case with a Nelo. These ones off tests are a waste of time. Too many variables and too few runs.
That depends if you buy a boat for your club and long term use or if you by it for one or two seasons. I think most world class athletes competing regularly on international championships will not row their boat for longher than two or three seasons. Most top class boats are built to minimal weight, some don't reach FISA minimum weight and have to use additional weights. you will notice this after a few years. would you build a boat for a longer life and to maintain its stiffness, it would probably way one or two kilos more. On club level you probably would not notice it, but wich athlete would chose a heavier boat for competitions?
Crashed a Fillipi a few weeks ago and the bows disintegrated. They are no more robust than any other boat. In fact they are a lot weaker than the heavy slower brands.
You seem to imply Nelo won’t make good Club boats, yet in the world of kayaking they are World leaders, equivalent to Fillipi and Empacher rowing dominance combined......there is a reason for that.
storkstork the vast majority of any make of boat are not rowed by people who need or want fisa weight. And a boat builder will not be successful building for internationals only. The boat needs to last and that will impact its resell value. If it gets a reputation for disintegrating and some brands do it won’t sell well.
I’m sure it will be fine but time will tell.
@@DavidMartin-yo6me I'm a kayak athlete and have been paddling Nelo boats for over 15 years. The boat I learned in was an old Nelo K1 Mosquito, I think they started manufacturing them in the late 90's. The boat was incredibly unstable for a beginner, but it is still being used today by kids at a local club; it must be 25 years old. K2's from the same era are also still on the water and I believe they are roughly the same length as a 1x. As a Nelo fan, I am excited to see the brand branch out into different sports. I know rowing is different to kayak, but if the shells are the same quality as the kayaks, I think folks will be very happy with them.
No difference, just I find that the bow is diving much, more visible maybe on the Nelo. Probably because of leaning backward too heavily, uncontrolled.