This video can basically be summed up with; “The E2s had faults but most of these faults weren’t that much of a big issue because they where just dockside tank engines”
@@SolmonGTrauth I am guessing that at the time they was being designed I am guessing the original railway company did not feel that E2 tank engines need anything that would make them different from the engines that had been built before them? but I guess enough room on the footplate to use a coal shovel would have probably helped the poor their poor driver's a lot?
Awdry: "Let's also give you an even buffer beam. Unfortunately, you'll have to crash through a station master's house first." Thomas: "Thank you Rev- wait, WHAT?"
@@NorthWestern1919 Awdry: A J50 buffer beam. Don't get me wrong, your current one is charming. However, your couplings don't line up. It may be a hazard.
@@NorthWestern1919 Awdry: Never mind that. I just wanted to find a way to bring Daisy into the books. Daisy: Yoo-hoo! 💃 Thomas: (gulp) Reverend, what were you thinking?! Awdry: I swear, I didn't expect her to be a... you know.
Well, you have to remember that Thomas was a HEAVILY modified version of the E2, no dipped footplate in the back, smaller than usual, etc. Your video is about what the real LBSCR E2, which is somewhat different from what Thomas is. Of course, your video pointed out all the problems a regular LBSCR E2 had, but Thomas seemed to have little to none of the problems you stated, leading me to believe Thomas is modified internally, too.
Maybe his boiler has more tubes than the real one- allowing more heat to boil the water- maybe he has smaller feed pipes in his tanks (I’ll reference “Thomas Goes Fishing” here), maybe he has a longer 20’ wheelbase to better spread his tractive effort over the tracks. He could likely have a taller bunker than the actual E2, allowing for more coal storage. We don’t really know. Maybe it’s just fiction and Thomas being able to pull trains he realistically can’t even dream of pulling is Wilbert Awdry’s imagination given form
This is just my personal opinion, but I usually take the RWS illustrations, especially those by C. Reginald Dalby, with a grain of salt. I personally think that Thomas' uneven running board, before he was given a new, even one, was an illustration error, much like Henry in his old shape constantly changing between a 4-6-0 and a 4-6-2. However, I do agree with you about the internal improvements, because otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense for Thomas to run his own branch line passenger service.
@@NorthWestern1919 It’s only two coaches in the tv series, how hard could that be for him? The only times he’d likely have trouble are either when he’s low on fuel, pulling other rolling stock in addition to his coaches, or just how long he’s been running for
@@jamesgroccia644 I'm talking about the RWS. TVS Annie and Clarabel are tiny. RWS Annie and Clarabel, on the other hand, are absolute units with bogie trucks, and Clarabel even has controls that allow the driver to operate the train in reverse. I think they would be harder to pull.
11:26 Truly a sobering statement. We tend to romanticise steam locomotives (and to be fair, they deserve most of it) but often forget that, to the railways, they were tools to perform tasks.
"But, for a class of average tank engines, what their final legacy was being quite remarkable. Do you know what I mean?" (Show an E2 jumping over the HiT insignia.)
Now, I won't deny that the LBSCR E2 class did have some problems. - overpowered brakes - low coal storage - 16' ft wheelbase etc. -I2 class boilers And between the E2 haters and the E2 simps, I'm kinda in the middle. (Not saying the E2 class is the worst, but also not denying their flaws)
I’d say I’m more on the against side but not ignorant to their actual powers, but if you were to compare them to contemporary big 4 rivals such as J50s, Fowler Jinties and 57xx and other miscellaneous GWR tank enginess, the E2s don’t keep up. These shunters became known as go anywhere do anything locos because they actually could, the E2s were confined to one job, but when you’re in a financial hard place, you need a loco thst can do multiple tasks without a fuss, saving on construction of additional locomotives which may not be required. I believe that if the SR had looked further into diesel shunting development that the E2s would have been the first victims as they were the most suitable for replacement
Very good video! I love the idea of an unbiased summary of the E2's. Just... one little thing about your K class tank engine. Keep the front pony truck and have a 2-6-2. That pony truck was on the K's for a reason.
I think that E2s didn’t excel in any capacity, they just did everything alright, they weren’t the greatest at just one thing, but they did just about everything okay enough to be useful. I really like the E2s but we can all agree they’re not without their flaws, also shout out to this guy who only put clips from the classic series Thomas.
I just think they’re neat! (edit) I say fix them, the bunker isn’t really an issue, unless they added some austerity modifications to it. Add some condensing equipment to recover some of that steam to water for the thirst that engine has. The boiler being interchangeable with previous engines, I don’t think it really needs to be changed. Modify the driving wheels and properly match the cylinders and solve the balance issue they had at higher speeds, also give the center drivers wider flanges to allow them to negotiate the sharp dockyard corners. The tight brake issues are probably solvable with a less heavy hand on the brake. I mean, you want the thing to stop, isn’t that the point? Honestly, a little bit of money would solve a lot of the issues to make the engine from “good enough” to “respectable” but we’re talking about a railway that was getting head first in to electrification and was generally cash strapped. 50 year service life tho, it was probably good for something!
Nice video. Despite their mediocreness, its sad that all the e2's got scrapped. But, like the ending said, they do have Thomas as their lasting legacy:)
The detail about push-pull trains is interesting, because in the Railway Series books, Thomas' coaches, Annie and Clarabel, are push-pull coaches for his branch line.
Though, Thomas wasn't originally planned to be based off the E2. Thomas was originally planned to be based off the J50. The illustrator changed that to the E2. Btw, there is a EMD diesel locomotive also a E2. I wonder if British railway companies went with a different classification code and get a larger headlight to help with visibility.
Interesting! I’m not the biggest Thomas head, BUT I’ll be starting a live steam Thomas build on my channel in a month or so for the Thomas fans :) Keep steaming!
I completely agree with this video. I was wondering if anyone noticed how the E2's weren't as bad as everyone chalked them up to be, but weren't that great as well. Good eye for noticing this.
I like the Thomas & Friends characters as characters in their own universes. I don't really care all too much about the actual, real life engines they were based off of.
One thing I have wondered for a while is why didn’t L.B. Billington us the boiler from the E4 class 0-6-2 tanks designed by his father? They had been in service for around a decade by that time and had proven themselves. Also, I too think it really isn’t fair to judge them based on how they performed on passenger work since they were designed as shunters and short distance goods engines unlike Stroudly’s A1 class or the E4 class, and even then, the A1 wasn’t without crew complaints either though for the A1 it was more that the cab was barely big enough for the crew to do their work without the driver being hit in back of the leg with a shovel every time the fireman added coal to the fire.
To awnser your first question : while I’m not entirely sure of why I suspect it’s to do with the fact Lawson probably didn’t want to rummage through the back log of spare boilers to build a new engine ? Or maybe he was being over confident when comes to his Ability to try and make a failed passenger engine boiler work on a freight tank engine ? Who knows !
@@SolmonGTrauth For the boilers, couldn’t he have simply looked up his father’s diagram for the boiler and have some more made? Surely the LBSCR had the blueprints on file like other railways did?
@@comradeopthomasthehedgehog I think the E2s were not preserved mainly the stigma surrounding it. Yes, they were good shunters, but as passenger locomotives, they were (like the video said) a bit cringe, adding on to the faults of the engine. Think of it this way: would you rather preserve (not in static condition) a pretty good locomotive with a ok to good safety record, or an ok engine with pretty bad safety record. (Note: this is my own opinion, I don’t love or hate the E2s.)
Well Said , Sir. i've seen arguments about them being useless, arguing they were useless, or what flaws could have been rectified may have improved the performance, Ive seen videos arguing Thomas may have been other Trains like a Jinty or E2. But your argument covers factors others did not consider or perhaps willfully ignored. E2's did what they did, and 2 world wars kept them going longer.
how to fix the E2 1: give it a boiler that has less coal and water consumption 2: weaken the treads and flanges on the middle axle to help with going around corners 3: Give it cylinders of the E3 or driving wheels the same size as the jinty 4: just be nicer to the brake handle
@@explodingdynamite7319 there was 4 classes of ‘I’ tank , the i1 , the i2 , the i3 , and the i4 With the i1’s being rebuilt to an “i1x specification” in the 30s, and the i4 basically being a superheated version of the i2
I think you missed out a key point. Yes, they did the job, but they didn’t do it as well as their contemporary counterparts, such as the Fowler Jintys, Gresley J50s and multiple other J class tank engines and miscellaneous GWR shutters or a 57xx. All the classes proved themselves as powerful utility locomotives that we’re designed mainly for shunting or short haul journeys.
This is why the Thomas and Friends series is popular. It bases its engines, locomotives, and rolling stock on real world equipment that people of every age can relate to. Although the show's version is a redesign with a shorter wheel base and over the top speed and longer than average fuel reserves, the E2 Class (still don't get why only one engine gets a 'class') has been remembered.
0:33 this picture is funny because you can tell the realistic troll face right there clearly representing that one side of the fandom that prays over thomas and wants to make they’re ocs e2s with hair, I’m glad my oc is a j50
Very good explanation of the E2’s flaws, however, I did seem to noticed that you failed to mention the wheelbase. With a wheelbase of 16ft, the E2’s were not permitted into some of the tighter sections of the dockyards, being left to the smaller locomotives such as the E1’s, later the B4’s in southern days, and finally the S100’s which had a wheelbase of 10ft.
I did I fact mention the wheelbase issues, however you’ll find the E2s didn’t need to go into extremely tight sidings since as I said they were meant to Marshall extremely long trains, and anyone will tell you pulling more then 4 trucks on a tight curve is a recipe for disaster
@@SolmonGTrauth not necessarily, you can shunt as many wagons as you like on a fairly tight curve, as long as your not bouncing the train around like a model set. From my own shunting experiences on panniers, the wagons just need to be treated gently, due to the snatch from the 3 link couplings tightening up. You wouldn’t have any problems with tight corners in a shunting yard
Honestly, I don't see Thomas as any other class of engine. Thomas just fits the E2 look, whether it may be my nostalgia talking or something, but just his build alone is just so memorable. Very nicely done video!
Appreciate getting the straight dope about the class for once. Know it doesn't really matter at this stage, but I wonder if refitting the boiler with a superheater would've helped matters any?
@@SolmonGTrauth True enough, but it makes an interesting thought experiment to ponder over. An E2 was somehow saved from the breaker's yard and is sitting right in front of you, you've got a workshop at your disposal to do whatever you want to it, what do you do? I admit I'm no engineer, and I'll accept it as a given it's a lemon design, but I would still like to give it a go to try and ease the issues even if it can't be cured entirely. Hence the suggestion of a superheater, my best guess on taking a crack at the poor steaming issue. Rough riding? Re-Balance the motion or try a different suspension arrangement (anybody try putting fluid shock absorbers on a steam loco yet?). Not enough coal? Extended bunkers, swap out for a tender, or convert to oil firing. So many things to try..... Ultimately I acknowledge it's all entirely moot by now.
I wonder if the opinon on the E2 would be different if either the Reverend Awdry had never created the RWS, or if one or two of the class had survived into preservation. Both would be interesting thought experiments for someone far better versed in the history of steam locomotives than I am
In fairness, a lot of successful designs in history were just "good enough". During WW2, there were two vehicles the British military used from the beginning to the end - the Wellington bomber and the Matilda Mk2 tank. Both were considered "good" in 1939, and considered "adequate for niche duties" by 1945. Both were liked by their crews because they were familiar and dependable. Sometimes "good enough" really is good enough.
I think the E2's failings were the main reason Awdry chose the design as the basis for Thomas. He was represented as a fussy engine that wanted to get out of the yard and explore. With the E2 being designed to have a limited range, that sort of personification of wanting to go on long journeys because you aren't able to makes sense.
Technically, Awdry first envisioned Thomas as a J50, it was actually illustrator Reginald Payne's idea to make him an E2. But even after Payne gave Thomas his iconic design, Awdry still could have done what you said as a workaround to Thomas having a new basis. Good analysis on your part either way.
Honestly, like Unlucky Tug realized, it looked like Awdry started to regret the design, hence the Dalby, Kenny & Edward’s illustrations, & with Thomas comes to breakfast, in the last Railway Series book, Thomas barley looks like an E2, my theory is that Awdry had the illustrators have Thomas with the E2 basis, with lots of J50 features, hence the flat running board, the small looking size, etc.
@@IsaacC94 I wasn't actually denying Unlucky Tug's theory though, I mostly agree with what you said. But honestly I'm glad Awdry was tolerant enough of Thomas being an E2 to keep it that way in the books, I've always found the J50s to be very strange looking engines, and while I do like them, I've never really thought the design suits Thomas' character all that well.
In my country, a Japanese c12 tank engine was given a special "tender" to get more water and coal for running longer distance, maybe what Thomas need is not special coaches but the opposite idea he given to those big engines, scrap your bunker and get yourself a tender, little Thomas!
What I can't ever understand is that everyone say thomas was a lbscr e2 but the art work from the books and the model from show looks more like a Furness railway g5
To be fair for someone's first real locomotive design the E2's weren't the worst thing. Least they were able to do their jobs, lotta designs can't really even do what they were said to do on paper. Do like the idea of the K class tank though, now that would have been a sight! Heck even if the E2's were rebuilt with better boilers they would have been better off.
And also what people don’t see is Thomas about became 2 other tank engines. I believe the original design Thomas was gonna be a I think J50 or something like that tank. And one of Thomas original models from what I’ve seen favored a E1 tank. With the squared off water tanks, more straight buffer beam on front instead of the curved shaped one. And a different wheel covers o guess you’d call em right infront of the water tanks.
Unmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm there is only one type of E2. If you got this info from Gannon’s Post, Gannon made a mistake. Gannon called the J50 Class “E2 J50 class” He simply misunderstood.
@@jac- either way the thomas we have know isn't the type he was intended to be, it doesn't match the toy that awdry made for Christopher, or awdry's original drawings of Thomas.
The LBSC might have been better off to have copied the Midland Railway Jinty, an 1899 class which were being rebuilt around the same time as the E2 was on the drawing board.
I think it should be noted that Rev Audrey originally wanted Thomas to be a J50 shunter. But after loosing his original wooden J50 model as well as poor drawings (the same drawing that resulted in the problems with Henry) He said "screw it!" And made Thomas an E2.
I don’t think it was a ‘screw it’ it was more or less a poor communication between author and illustrator. Many times Awdry said how much he truly despised Thomas’ design and for simplicity he had the Brighton-ness removed.
LBSC: What the hell are you E2s still here for? You're fired! Employees: Sir, the war effort. LBSC: Oh, that's right. You're unfired. Come here, I need you.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Thomas the Good Enough Engine
"Works well for me" - Topham
Thomas and his Really Decent Enough Companions
@@Cessna-er4je based in the ok series by the Rev. Good enough.
The well story of Henry
He's an alright enough engine
This video can basically be summed up with; “The E2s had faults but most of these faults weren’t that much of a big issue because they where just dockside tank engines”
Again I wouldn’t call it that, oversimplification Is what leads to confusion and misunderstanding.
@@SolmonGTrauth fair enough, we don’t want anymore of that anymore
@@SolmonGTrauth I am guessing that at the time they was being designed I am guessing the original railway company did not feel that E2 tank engines need anything that would make them different from the engines that had been built before them? but I guess enough room on the footplate to use a coal shovel would have probably helped the poor their poor driver's a lot?
You are epik channel
@@SolmonGTrauth @Solomon GWR > LB&SCR
Thomas: I'm a failure.
Wilbert Awdry: No you're not. All you need are some adjustments. A larger coal bunker and tanks ought to do the trick.
Awdry: "Let's also give you an even buffer beam. Unfortunately, you'll have to crash through a station master's house first."
Thomas: "Thank you Rev- wait, WHAT?"
@@NorthWestern1919 Awdry: A J50 buffer beam. Don't get me wrong, your current one is charming. However, your couplings don't line up. It may be a hazard.
@@SodorTrain1225 Thomas: "I'm still concerned about the bit where I crash into a station master's house."
@@NorthWestern1919 Awdry: Never mind that. I just wanted to find a way to bring Daisy into the books.
Daisy: Yoo-hoo! 💃
Thomas: (gulp) Reverend, what were you thinking?!
Awdry: I swear, I didn't expect her to be a... you know.
Thomas:”I thank you sir I hope that a replica E2 gets built soon.”
if thomas had become a J50, would the same people hate the j50 just because people would associated the class with Thomas?
Probably not, but maybe with a little research we can see more about them
Not really as the J50s where actually good locomotives
I’d say we little less, cuz the J50 was actually successful
I think if TTTE was a j50 instead of an e2 nobody would even have heard of him.
@@jmtrainz2582 on the contrary, I think with the interesting design the J50s had, it would certainly get a lot of attention.
Thomas: im I a great engine sir?
The Fat Controller: you're good enough
YaY - Thomas
Well, you have to remember that Thomas was a HEAVILY modified version of the E2, no dipped footplate in the back, smaller than usual, etc. Your video is about what the real LBSCR E2, which is somewhat different from what Thomas is. Of course, your video pointed out all the problems a regular LBSCR E2 had, but Thomas seemed to have little to none of the problems you stated, leading me to believe Thomas is modified internally, too.
Maybe his boiler has more tubes than the real one- allowing more heat to boil the water- maybe he has smaller feed pipes in his tanks (I’ll reference “Thomas Goes Fishing” here), maybe he has a longer 20’ wheelbase to better spread his tractive effort over the tracks. He could likely have a taller bunker than the actual E2, allowing for more coal storage. We don’t really know. Maybe it’s just fiction and Thomas being able to pull trains he realistically can’t even dream of pulling is Wilbert Awdry’s imagination given form
@@jamesgroccia644 Exactly! except for the last part. I'm describing it as if Thomas was real.
This is just my personal opinion, but I usually take the RWS illustrations, especially those by C. Reginald Dalby, with a grain of salt. I personally think that Thomas' uneven running board, before he was given a new, even one, was an illustration error, much like Henry in his old shape constantly changing between a 4-6-0 and a 4-6-2. However, I do agree with you about the internal improvements, because otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense for Thomas to run his own branch line passenger service.
@@NorthWestern1919 It’s only two coaches in the tv series, how hard could that be for him? The only times he’d likely have trouble are either when he’s low on fuel, pulling other rolling stock in addition to his coaches, or just how long he’s been running for
@@jamesgroccia644 I'm talking about the RWS. TVS Annie and Clarabel are tiny. RWS Annie and Clarabel, on the other hand, are absolute units with bogie trucks, and Clarabel even has controls that allow the driver to operate the train in reverse. I think they would be harder to pull.
11:26 Truly a sobering statement. We tend to romanticise steam locomotives (and to be fair, they deserve most of it) but often forget that, to the railways, they were tools to perform tasks.
Agreed
"But, for a class of average tank engines, what their final legacy was being quite remarkable. Do you know what I mean?"
(Show an E2 jumping over the HiT insignia.)
That ending was perfect! I wish the ending theme had played more, but it was such a memorable line.
Now, I won't deny that the LBSCR E2 class did have some problems.
- overpowered brakes
- low coal storage
- 16' ft wheelbase etc.
-I2 class boilers
And between the E2 haters and the E2 simps, I'm kinda in the middle. (Not saying the E2 class is the worst, but also not denying their flaws)
I am in the exact same position as you. I feel the same way.
Yea
I like the 14xx better
Don't forget about the constant bouncing and oscillating.
I’d say I’m more on the against side but not ignorant to their actual powers, but if you were to compare them to contemporary big 4 rivals such as J50s, Fowler Jinties and 57xx and other miscellaneous GWR tank enginess, the E2s don’t keep up. These shunters became known as go anywhere do anything locos because they actually could, the E2s were confined to one job, but when you’re in a financial hard place, you need a loco thst can do multiple tasks without a fuss, saving on construction of additional locomotives which may not be required. I believe that if the SR had looked further into diesel shunting development that the E2s would have been the first victims as they were the most suitable for replacement
"Sir, why is thomas Your favorite?"
Topham : "He's terrible, i hate him. I just wanted him to feel special"
The ending was so satisfying
🎵 Thomas the good enough engiene rolling along 🎵
“THOMAS WE LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU”
The ok controller always * something * * something *
Finally these are the answers I’ve been looking for!
Very good video! I love the idea of an unbiased summary of the E2's. Just... one little thing about your K class tank engine. Keep the front pony truck and have a 2-6-2. That pony truck was on the K's for a reason.
The sad thing about E2s that they won't built right after the extended side tanks they probably could had fixed the issues
I think that E2s didn’t excel in any capacity, they just did everything alright, they weren’t the greatest at just one thing, but they did just about everything okay enough to be useful. I really like the E2s but we can all agree they’re not without their flaws, also shout out to this guy who only put clips from the classic series Thomas.
CGI clips are only good for memes
@@SolmonGTrauth Unless it’s Brenner.
4:53 AHAHAHAHAH, goddamn it Solmon, you’re great.
“But for a class with less than average tank engines, what their final legacy ended up being is quite remarkable. Don’t you agree?”
-Solmon (2021)
4:53 Isn't it because of a brake issue?
I just think they’re neat!
(edit)
I say fix them, the bunker isn’t really an issue, unless they added some austerity modifications to it.
Add some condensing equipment to recover some of that steam to water for the thirst that engine has.
The boiler being interchangeable with previous engines, I don’t think it really needs to be changed.
Modify the driving wheels and properly match the cylinders and solve the balance issue they had at higher speeds, also give the center drivers wider flanges to allow them to negotiate the sharp dockyard corners.
The tight brake issues are probably solvable with a less heavy hand on the brake. I mean, you want the thing to stop, isn’t that the point?
Honestly, a little bit of money would solve a lot of the issues to make the engine from “good enough” to “respectable” but we’re talking about a railway that was getting head first in to electrification and was generally cash strapped.
50 year service life tho, it was probably good for something!
Nice video. Despite their mediocreness, its sad that all the e2's got scrapped. But, like the ending said, they do have Thomas as their lasting legacy:)
The detail about push-pull trains is interesting, because in the Railway Series books, Thomas' coaches, Annie and Clarabel, are push-pull coaches for his branch line.
Though, Thomas wasn't originally planned to be based off the E2. Thomas was originally planned to be based off the J50. The illustrator changed that to the E2. Btw, there is a EMD diesel locomotive also a E2. I wonder if British railway companies went with a different classification code and get a larger headlight to help with visibility.
Interesting! I’m not the biggest Thomas head, BUT I’ll be starting a live steam Thomas build on my channel in a month or so for the Thomas fans :) Keep steaming!
There’s one that everyone knows that’s still in service, and he’s number 1
You my bro, speak truth about these poor verbally abused, and misunderstood locomotives. You deserve my respect. Good video! 😉✌️
I completely agree with this video. I was wondering if anyone noticed how the E2's weren't as bad as everyone chalked them up to be, but weren't that great as well. Good eye for noticing this.
A well thought out analysis, very gud
I like the Thomas & Friends characters as characters in their own universes. I don't really care all too much about the actual, real life engines they were based off of.
Same, I didn't even know there was a controversy over this???
One thing I have wondered for a while is why didn’t L.B. Billington us the boiler from the E4 class 0-6-2 tanks designed by his father? They had been in service for around a decade by that time and had proven themselves. Also, I too think it really isn’t fair to judge them based on how they performed on passenger work since they were designed as shunters and short distance goods engines unlike Stroudly’s A1 class or the E4 class, and even then, the A1 wasn’t without crew complaints either though for the A1 it was more that the cab was barely big enough for the crew to do their work without the driver being hit in back of the leg with a shovel every time the fireman added coal to the fire.
To awnser your first question : while I’m not entirely sure of why I suspect it’s to do with the fact Lawson probably didn’t want to rummage through the back log of spare boilers to build a new engine ? Or maybe he was being over confident when comes to his Ability to try and make a failed passenger engine boiler work on a freight tank engine ? Who knows !
@@SolmonGTrauth For the boilers, couldn’t he have simply looked up his father’s diagram for the boiler and have some more made? Surely the LBSCR had the blueprints on file like other railways did?
E2s may have flaws such as short coal storage, they still managed to live an incredibly long life!
Keep in mind that the E1’s and terriers lived an even longer life.
40-50 years is an average life expectancy of a locomotive but the A1’s lasted for almost a whole century.
I still don’t get why the E1s get to be preserved when the E2s replaced them in the first place
@@comradeopthomasthehedgehog
I think the E2s were not preserved mainly the stigma surrounding it. Yes, they were good shunters, but as passenger locomotives, they were (like the video said) a bit cringe, adding on to the faults of the engine.
Think of it this way: would you rather preserve (not in static condition) a pretty good locomotive with a ok to good safety record, or an ok engine with pretty bad safety record.
(Note: this is my own opinion, I don’t love or hate the E2s.)
@@daylightman8459 A1s lasted a century? Are you lost? Because what you said doesn't make any sense.
Thomas: *had an existential questioning crisis*
You know I can't agree more on the subject however I don't think there mediocre but good enough but for what they are there actually pretty remarkable
Great video, thanks for making and uploading. I love the archive file exerpts and all that research!
I wonder what Thomas would look like if he was a class J50 in the books
He would look like a J50.
@@robobird3383 dang you’re right
The E2 in a nutshell, they just stuck around not because they were good, but because no one really bothered with replacing them with a better design.
I think the E2s were alright but could've been better had it not been for wartime shortages and other problems, great vid!
Would have been better if they’d been given better boilers
Well Said , Sir. i've seen arguments about them being useless, arguing they were useless, or what flaws could have been rectified may have improved the performance, Ive seen videos arguing Thomas may have been other Trains like a Jinty or E2. But your argument covers factors others did not consider or perhaps willfully ignored. E2's did what they did, and 2 world wars kept them going longer.
how to fix the E2
1: give it a boiler that has less coal and water consumption
2: weaken the treads and flanges on the middle axle to help with going around corners
3: Give it cylinders of the E3 or driving wheels the same size as the jinty
4: just be nicer to the brake handle
I Wonder What Your Version Of The E2 Looks Like…
@@explodingdynamite7319 probably would just look like an E2 with a boiler from the i2’s more successful cousin, the i3
The i2 And The I3?
@@explodingdynamite7319 there was 4 classes of ‘I’ tank , the i1 , the i2 , the i3 , and the i4
With the i1’s being rebuilt to an “i1x specification” in the 30s, and the i4 basically being a superheated version of the i2
I Tried To Search It On RUclips, But It Wasn’t There!
Happy 3 more subscribers until 700 bro
Truly a gamer moment
I should design Thomas as a hybrid of any of the LB&SCR Tank Engines.
I love this video man!
I was listening to thomas mysteries and decided to subscribe to you I really lirk your content!
I think you missed out a key point. Yes, they did the job, but they didn’t do it as well as their contemporary counterparts, such as the Fowler Jintys, Gresley J50s and multiple other J class tank engines and miscellaneous GWR shutters or a 57xx. All the classes proved themselves as powerful utility locomotives that we’re designed mainly for shunting or short haul journeys.
Mmmh looking back I do agree perhaps a video evaluating pre grouping shunters would be nice 👀
This is why the Thomas and Friends series is popular. It bases its engines, locomotives, and rolling stock on real world equipment that people of every age can relate to. Although the show's version is a redesign with a shorter wheel base and over the top speed and longer than average fuel reserves, the E2 Class (still don't get why only one engine gets a 'class') has been remembered.
0:33 this picture is funny because you can tell the realistic troll face right there clearly representing that one side of the fandom that prays over thomas and wants to make they’re ocs e2s with hair, I’m glad my oc is a j50
Very good explanation of the E2’s flaws, however, I did seem to noticed that you failed to mention the wheelbase. With a wheelbase of 16ft, the E2’s were not permitted into some of the tighter sections of the dockyards, being left to the smaller locomotives such as the E1’s, later the B4’s in southern days, and finally the S100’s which had a wheelbase of 10ft.
I did I fact mention the wheelbase issues, however you’ll find the E2s didn’t need to go into extremely tight sidings since as I said they were meant to Marshall extremely long trains, and anyone will tell you pulling more then 4 trucks on a tight curve is a recipe for disaster
@@SolmonGTrauth not necessarily, you can shunt as many wagons as you like on a fairly tight curve, as long as your not bouncing the train around like a model set. From my own shunting experiences on panniers, the wagons just need to be treated gently, due to the snatch from the 3 link couplings tightening up. You wouldn’t have any problems with tight corners in a shunting yard
@@secondvalveservices9856 you’ve worked on panniers irl ?
@@SolmonGTrauth yes, I volunteered at didcot for 8 years, so panniers, large prairies, the king, etc etc
i'd really like to hear how'd you fix the E2's while still making them LOOK like E2's without changing much
ruclips.net/video/XBdNyKNzRRU/видео.html
Honestly, I don't see Thomas as any other class of engine. Thomas just fits the E2 look, whether it may be my nostalgia talking or something, but just his build alone is just so memorable. Very nicely done video!
Appreciate getting the straight dope about the class for once. Know it doesn't really matter at this stage, but I wonder if refitting the boiler with a superheater would've helped matters any?
An interesting idea but it’s like fixing the bedroom of crumbling house the entire basis of the design is flawed you’d have to start from scratch
@@SolmonGTrauth
True enough, but it makes an interesting thought experiment to ponder over. An E2 was somehow saved from the breaker's yard and is sitting right in front of you, you've got a workshop at your disposal to do whatever you want to it, what do you do?
I admit I'm no engineer, and I'll accept it as a given it's a lemon design, but I would still like to give it a go to try and ease the issues even if it can't be cured entirely.
Hence the suggestion of a superheater, my best guess on taking a crack at the poor steaming issue. Rough riding? Re-Balance the motion or try a different suspension arrangement (anybody try putting fluid shock absorbers on a steam loco yet?). Not enough coal? Extended bunkers, swap out for a tender, or convert to oil firing.
So many things to try..... Ultimately I acknowledge it's all entirely moot by now.
Plot twist: E2s Are Just Replacements for E1.
Also Southern Railway mens are Very fuckin hated E2s.
"He's a good enough little engine, you know."
"All the other people will tell you so."
I wonder if the opinon on the E2 would be different if either the Reverend Awdry had never created the RWS, or if one or two of the class had survived into preservation. Both would be interesting thought experiments for someone far better versed in the history of steam locomotives than I am
If Thomas wasn't drawn as an E2 I reckon it would've ended up being a fairly unknown loco tbh
What if you redesign the E2’s into Thomas
Am i the single one on this planet who loves E2’s not beacuse of a certain tv show?
*laughs* you’re not the only one bud, I started liking the e2’s because of Thomas too. Lol 😂
Yes true
Regardless of your thoughts on the E2
The Terrier was the superior locomotive.
After seeing this video, I am surprised that Thomas is even allowed to pull Annie and Clerabell
In fairness, a lot of successful designs in history were just "good enough".
During WW2, there were two vehicles the British military used from the beginning to the end - the Wellington bomber and the Matilda Mk2 tank. Both were considered "good" in 1939, and considered "adequate for niche duties" by 1945. Both were liked by their crews because they were familiar and dependable. Sometimes "good enough" really is good enough.
I think the E2's failings were the main reason Awdry chose the design as the basis for Thomas. He was represented as a fussy engine that wanted to get out of the yard and explore. With the E2 being designed to have a limited range, that sort of personification of wanting to go on long journeys because you aren't able to makes sense.
Technically, Awdry first envisioned Thomas as a J50, it was actually illustrator Reginald Payne's idea to make him an E2. But even after Payne gave Thomas his iconic design, Awdry still could have done what you said as a workaround to Thomas having a new basis. Good analysis on your part either way.
Honestly, like Unlucky Tug realized, it looked like Awdry started to regret the design, hence the Dalby, Kenny & Edward’s illustrations, & with Thomas comes to breakfast, in the last Railway Series book, Thomas barley looks like an E2, my theory is that Awdry had the illustrators have Thomas with the E2 basis, with lots of J50 features, hence the flat running board, the small looking size, etc.
@@IsaacC94 I wasn't actually denying Unlucky Tug's theory though, I mostly agree with what you said. But honestly I'm glad Awdry was tolerant enough of Thomas being an E2 to keep it that way in the books, I've always found the J50s to be very strange looking engines, and while I do like them, I've never really thought the design suits Thomas' character all that well.
So it's like a chevy s10, just fine enough to do things
THE E2
The E stands for:Good ENUF
Cough cough what about the j50 version of Thomas
In my country, a Japanese c12 tank engine was given a special "tender" to get more water and coal for running longer distance, maybe what Thomas need is not special coaches but the opposite idea he given to those big engines, scrap your bunker and get yourself a tender, little Thomas!
1:26 is Dat aquitania or am I a dumbass
Do you like the E2
So Billington changed his name, became a corporal in the German Army and the rest, as they say, is history?
I love the e2 class and how it jumps around you can do a lot of storytelling in the ttte universe
This does beg the question of would a TV series Thomas be a good function engine
Also I love your e2 design!
Thomas is a very heavily modified version of the E2
@@Askial_Osial exactly. I was wondering if it could still be a function engine
nice video wish the e2 where a around
What I can't ever understand is that everyone say thomas was a lbscr e2 but the art work from the books and the model from show looks more like a Furness railway g5
Awdry said he was an E2
maybe e2s are built differently in the rws universe and that’s why thomas doesn’t look like an e2
Did you say 5,000 gallons of water in their tanks ? !
Music
at 1:13?
I don’t think the e2s where really that well made. Definitely had a lot of problems. But… I do like Thomas
Which do you like better the e2s or the Terriers
E2 for the looks by far
Jesus, this is the first time I've heard your voice.
And it's fucking cool.
Ahah cheers man
Me who didnt knew what a e2 was before this vid: *why is there a debate about a tank engine?*
If you let people talk long enough about anything there will always be some form argument it seems
@@SolmonGTrauth true, very true
I just like how the E2s look I know they work badly thought
You know, you bring a fair point
What I did back when I was 15 I mix the e2 with the e4
The E2 Tank engine,just like Thomas,it was ok,Not too good,but not too bad either
What if we made an E2 that fixed the flaws of the original while still maintaining the original design
Really fantastic video I'll be watching your channel with great interest.
Idc we are not brainwashed just for hating the e2s and honestly iam a e2 fan
Amen to that.
I'll say the E2's were good enough to get ajustments
At 10:23, does this tweet really have that much comments?
Yes
I wonder what Locomotive would Wilbert Awdry would want for Thomas to be!!!!!
Originally, he was to be a J50...
To be fair for someone's first real locomotive design the E2's weren't the worst thing. Least they were able to do their jobs, lotta designs can't really even do what they were said to do on paper.
Do like the idea of the K class tank though, now that would have been a sight! Heck even if the E2's were rebuilt with better boilers they would have been better off.
And also what people don’t see is Thomas about became 2 other tank engines.
I believe the original design Thomas was gonna be a I think J50 or something like that tank.
And one of Thomas original models from what I’ve seen favored a E1 tank. With the squared off water tanks, more straight buffer beam on front instead of the curved shaped one. And a different wheel covers o guess you’d call em right infront of the water tanks.
Thomas should be a furness g5
you know whats better than an e2 but older? , an a1 terrier
Lots of things have good intentions, we just don't know what the overall outcome will be.
Thomas was originally going to be a different kind of E2, but the illustrators of the railway seires miss understand the type awdry meant.
Unmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm there is only one type of E2. If you got this info from Gannon’s Post, Gannon made a mistake. Gannon called the J50 Class “E2 J50 class” He simply misunderstood.
@@jac- either way the thomas we have know isn't the type he was intended to be, it doesn't match the toy that awdry made for Christopher, or awdry's original drawings of Thomas.
And Awdry just wanted thomas to be an LNER J50 tank
The LBSC might have been better off to have copied the Midland Railway Jinty, an 1899 class which were being rebuilt around the same time as the E2 was on the drawing board.
0:11
Why is the e2 hater in the ss
And what is the helmet mark that replaced the ss runes supposed to be
I think it should be noted that Rev Audrey originally wanted Thomas to be a J50 shunter. But after loosing his original wooden J50 model as well as poor drawings (the same drawing that resulted in the problems with Henry)
He said "screw it!" And made Thomas an E2.
I don’t think it was a ‘screw it’ it was more or less a poor communication between author and illustrator. Many times Awdry said how much he truly despised Thomas’ design and for simplicity he had the Brighton-ness removed.
LBSC: What the hell are you E2s still here for? You're fired!
Employees: Sir, the war effort.
LBSC: Oh, that's right. You're unfired. Come here, I need you.
Why couldn’t Dalby just draw Thomas as a J50. It would have been so much better
An engine only remember in children’s show fame 😊I grew up with it and it’s made me happy as a kid
Fun fact: Reverend W. Awdry never wanted Thomas to be an E2
Extended fact: he was supposed to be a J50 tank engine and Thomas comes to breakfast was made just to change Thomas’ design
@@theawkwardguy5397 yeah just his running board
@@ajsremakesandcustoms4093 ye :)