I have “entry level” equipment but every purchase I’ve made over the last 35 years has been a step up in audio quality. From a AM/FM cassette player I was gifted on my 13th birthday in 1987 to the Klipsch R-26 towers and R-12SW sun I’ve had for 6 years now have all been moving forward in quality. I like the sound and I’m the only one ever listening to it. I’m sure, if I had friends to come over and watch movies or listen to music that they would be impressed. I don’t have $10,000 to drop on gear and I’m in an apartment so I couldn’t use it if I wanted to. My cinematic experience at home is great and I’m sure when I buy something to add or replace the pieces I have, it’ll make it more immersive but it’s incremental.
The more important thing is that you like what you have, lately so called audiophile the tell you that is bad that is good and there word is law, bunch of snobs know it all
To me an Audiophile isn’t someone that has been sold a system but someone that has built a system for their room within their budget, and enjoyed the ride learning lots along the way about all things audio. They are someone who climbed into the rabbit hole using a ladder and know when it’s time to sit and listen and enjoy for awhile before adjusting or adding additional equipment to meet their fix….
Always enjoyed you vids for many years. Honest and accurate testing, also you have done reviews of budget components. I'd like to thank you for your years of work!
If I am an audiophile... You gotta be kidding me asking such a question; I spent a full month+ building my own bass traps, making the flat into a construction zone where people had to step over half done bass traps, for weeks in a row. All for the sake of getting some more musical pleasure and better look&feel in the flat. The nicest thing, not one single bad word from my better half.... In fact she is co designer of the bass traps and helped improve the design 🙂
I recall when I was a kid I had a cassette of Eliminator ( zztop) played on a basic amp / cassette player with Bose 301 speakers. I thought it was fantastic. My rig now is modest and it also sounds fantastic. About $3500 all in. Any upgrade would be extreme diminishing returns, short of a new room, which ain’t happening because I live in the real world, because we live in the living room, where we all dance and listen! And that’s what it’s all about.
Audiophile listen the equipment differences, speakers, amps, preamps, cables, interconnects, etc.; while non audiophile listen music contents, tones, voices, violins, pianos, etc.
I actually disagree. An audiophile will want his records faithfully reproduced, no more, no less. All that other stuff is more about the late addition that took over the party.
I have listened to so many different hifi systems, and it's true that more expensive hi-fi don't always equal better sound quality. That's why i settled with the Gryphon Diablo 120 amplifier, and Audiovector R1 arrete speakers. I have listened to much more expensive hi-fi, but this was the best sound for me. I don't consider myself as an audiophile, but a music lover. And yes, room acoustics is extremly important
I don't want to be an audiophile. I am enthusiastic about music, not its reproduction. I've spent the last couple years paying attention to some "audiophile" sources in trying to get good sounding components so I can enjoy music a little bit more. Audiophilia tends to involve listening to the same piece of music over and over again (different recordings, different playback equipment) to detect minute, often imaginary differences. I'm not generally very interested in that. Life is too short and there is too much great music out there I haven't heard yet. That said, I very much appreciate audiophile sources that focus on technical information, engineering concepts, and things that are quantifiable and measurable. Audioholocs, ASR, Erin, etc. Good sources. On the other hand, the golden ear voodoo nonsense I find totally insufferable and offensive, populated by dupes, smooth talkers and charlatans.
Loving music is not the same as being an audiophile. One is about the music the other is about the equipment. Audiophiles maybe into movies or even gaming.
You’ve just totally contradicted yourself. You appreciate audiophile sources so you can learn more about gear so you can then buy better components to enjoy better playback and enjoyment of music. Surely that’s the definition of an audiophile ? 😂
Audiophile means Audio-loving. The word 'Phile' comes from ancient Greek word, 'phileein' meaning to love. In the biology world, we regularly use words such as Hydrophilic and acidophilic, meaning water loving and acid loving. As opposed to Hydrophobic or acidophobic, which indicates a phobia to water or acid. The funny thing is, that in spite of loving audio, I have always avoided the word, because of the self-proclaimed audiophiles that are pompous, arrogant snobs. While, I’m not ready to embrace the audiophile label, I still love audio. I first got a subscription to Audiophile magazine and Curtico’s Home Theater magazine back in the early 90’s. Based on their reviews, I got a pair of NHT’s Super Zero’s and got my Bryston 4B amp through the Stereophile classified ads. That was the beginning of my journey into “better” quality audio. I’d say that 80% of my system is demo gear, floor samples or used equipment. I too embrace SACD and A-DVD, as well as Vinyl, but I’d say my digital system is of better quality than my analog reproduction system. One day I hope to get a better turntable with a MC cartridge. In any case, I don’t care with the audiophile snobs say, I still love audio. Thanks, Gene 👍
Thank you, Gene, for taking on this topic. I hate the term Audiophile because of all the reasons you mentioned! I have run up against so many audio snobs that love putting down other people's gear including mine simply because I haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. But when I try to explain to my friends what I have done with my system, they look at me as If I'm crazy! LOL. I have bought the best gear for me that I can afford so that I can enjoy my music and movies. I don't have any room treatments, because I don't want them. But I enjoy my 5.2 system just the same. BTW, it doesn't look like you have any room treatments in the room that you use to do these videos, unless they are simply out of sight. I'm glad you raised this topic, unfortunately, it isn't going to make a bit of difference to the snobs out there. So, while I might be an audiophile, I will never describe myself as one, because of the negativity of that term.
Good idea. The problem is sound reproduction device fetishism, the industry that exploits this propensity for profit, and the fool's errand that ensues. All of the self-professed audiophile "experts" who don't base their assertions on falsifiable facts, lead you to think that sound is more important than music. Their modus operandi is "fascination" : Promoting sound for sound's sake is an exercise in fascination, the specialty of street hustlers and all manner of swindlers. Seen from the music lover and rational mind's perspective, good sound is sound that supports musical enjoyment. None of us were present during the recordings, so we have zero subjective means to compare the reproduction to the original experience ; and the fact that most recordings are multi-tracked, overdubbed and heavily produced, means that there was NO original experience except that heard in the mixing and mastering rooms, through reproduction equipment... Therefore, the objective criteria that matter are that the consumer devices not introduce much character (distortion, noise) of their own and are able to produce a good deal of the frequency and dynamic range heard in the mastering room - all of which is measurable . The subjective criteria that matter are that consumers find their experience engaging and cost-effective. The rest, the snobbery of owning name-brand boat anchors costing their weight in gold, has more to do with the lifestyle/luxury industry than it has to do with audio and music. The cocky, unconscionable snake oil salesmen who pontificate on RUclips, in stores and in magazines about ludicrous performance claims, are the same breed of folks who sell diamond-studded platinum watches to the insecure.
I fell into the Stereophile bandwagon 25 years ago and I ended up spending about the price of a small house on esoteric gear. It was bulky, heavy and finicky. The sound was indeed "superlative" but I soon realised I was paying attention to sound all the time, and I'd go from track to track inside my music collection, not to listen to music but to seek immediate and short-lived aural satisfaction, much like a coke addict runs through powder. I got rid of the kit. Today I enjoy a superior listening experience with a couple of relatively modest but well-made kits ; one with separate DAC (Topping) running into analogue Genelecs for my office near-field setup, and one that consists in nothing but LS-50W II's. The entire set of devices costs less than the MIT cables I used to run from Spectral monoblocks to Wilson Maxx. While I feel like former self was a total fool, I am genuinely happy that armed with my first-hand experience of extreme high-end equipment, I know my new cheap commodity gear not only sounds just as good, it is now vanishing psychologically behind my recovered fondness of music. I work in signal processing, so I am not naïve when it comes to electronics and transducers. I picked my new gear rationally, not because some pompous knob "reviewer" told me to. There are two types of audio equipment reviewers ; honest, rational folks like Gene, Erin or Amir, who are faithful to the objective of producing worthwhile musical or cinema experiences using an optimal price/performance ratio; and the rest, whose names are too numerous to list here - unfortunately the vast majority of reviewers or salesmen on YT, magazines or local shops. The reality of the latter, is that they have a veiled financial interest in selling you high-margin gear, and they will lie to make a buck or to preserve their standing as a pawn in the big audio gear mafia.
@@phpn99 I see where this comes from, and I am glad you finally got out. I've never been quite there, but on the way. Then I did what the audio press told me, "trust your own ears (bet they didn't mean 'instead of theirs'...) and making sound choices. I've had my amps for 20 years, my speakers for about 17, my turntable for 9, my digital player for over 10. Truth is I enjoy my stereo the way it is, and keep buying records.
As much I enjoy stereo sound, for me multi-channel has been my go to for sit back and relax. It's an entirely different experience when done right and to be honest I wasn't actually expecting it.
Thank you! 1000% agree. I love playing with my sound, trying different things for movies, games, and music. Even different genres of music are funny to fiddle with. I’m moving soon and already trying to plan how to squeeze the best sound out of the new space. I’m am audiophile.
Love this Gene! I hate how the term Audiophile has been in some ways high jinxed by a selection of elitist, forum dwelling gear snobs. As far as I’m concerned you are just as welcome in this hobby if you are using a sub $1000 entry level system as you are using $100000+ high end equipment. Being an audiophile is simply about using what gear you have to create enjoyable audio experiences. That’s why I love your channel, everyone is welcome without pretence or pre-qualification!
Yeah, we finally bought a house and I have a place that I can make a home cinema out of..... which is a shared living room.... and open on one side into the kitchen. With that said, I have a tolerant significant other and I'm currently leaning towards getting the Arendal THX S series of speakers and multiple subs and even though my room is by no means optimal I want to take room acoustics seriously. The gear is fun sure, but I want to see what I can do here to actually tame this room as much as possible while having speakers in the correct positions and still allowing the children to run and play behind the listening position (in front will be a no running zone as the tower speakers will be there). At any rate, I am looking forward to this. I would have wished for a more dedicated room for a home cinema but that is currently not in the cards and I am looking forward to doing the most with what I have, including multiple subs, height channels, room treatment (that does need to look good, but I have seen those that do). In the end I'm hoping for a 5.2.4 or 7.2.4.... or maybe even four subs but that will be later down the road if two are not enough. Thanks for all the content Gene.
I loved your detailed researched reasoning. I am an audiophile. But I'm only a Junior Audioholic! To be an Audioholic one must help others in a manor consistent with the Audioholic forum rules and understand snake oil versus real difference making materials. I would urge all Audiophiles to try this. I have had great reward from the thanks I have received from helping other's choose materials and whole systems based on their budget and what their preferences are. Helping each other has that intrinsic reward that makes being an audiophile a shared enjoyable experience. Maybe someday I will become a full Audioholic and receive the badge of honor that goes with it!
Yes, you can say I'm an audio enthusiast. I agree with you about sitting down and listening to an album. Every Saturday I do all my yard work and when I am done I take a shower and sit down and listen to a album. Tomorrow I am going to listen to Frampton comes alive on vinyl. I sometimes will see a concert on Quello. Love your content keep sharing the knowledge.
I don't have a negative perception of the term. This is my new hobby. And that's that. I do chuckle at all the BS that is peddled. But if you dive into any leisure or luxury pursuit, they have their same BS. I'm not immune to the BS, either. But I am at least aware and acknowledge that it exists. And I hedge my frontal lobe inclinations and desire to believe in fantasy with some measured sanity and research. I educate myself.
Hi Gene. I am an audiophile (so be the term) and I think what it means to be a great Hi-Fi enthusiast is trying different audio codecs and experimentation with different equipment. Recently, I bought a great tube amplifier and it is a way different experience than my solid state amp. It is those kinds of differences that make the hobby so great and what people should explore. Thanks for all that you do and your home theater room is seriously top notch. I have a 5.1 mix copy of Genesis’s trick of the tail album and I’d pay the price of admission to listen to it on your system. :)
I had a pair of JPW bookshelf speakers. I drove these with a Rega 3 turntable and a Naim mid-range integrated amp. Here's the rub, I sold my system 22 years after purchasing the JPWs and the system was impeccable. These speakers were like new, no degradation, no wear, no rot, even after playing for 22 years in smoke filled rooms. I paid $495Cnd in 1995 and they were worth every 2017 penny I sold it for. You just never know, and truly, I didn't listen to the marketing at the time of purchase, just my ears.
Great post as usual Gene! I don't know if we can take back the term audiophile. Outside of our clan of music lovers, the term has had a LOT of negative condemnation played on it. So many people look into our group, read and see so much of the audiophool type stuff going on. Water hose style speaker wiring floating in mid air, $5k+ power cords, green pens, Dr Frankenstein huge SET tube amps, and all that stuff has the rest of the world believing we're all nut cases. I'm 72 and have been chasing High Fidelity sound for near all that time, personally I find it embarrassing what the "high end" print and web media has done to the worlds perception of our passion for music reproduction. I'd love to turn back the hands of time, I just don't think it's possible. Sal1950 "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information? "Peter Aczel"
I really hate the term "Audiophile", it's a label that divides people. We all appreciate music and great sound, it is human nature, no additional labels needed. The key is knowledge, know what you like and learn about all the great technology and products that are available. It is a fantastic time to be in this hobby no matter your preference and budget, so many amazing products from so many manufacturers. Also a must to learn and implement proper room treatments, makes such a huge difference and will probably save you from spending money on new gear when the root cause is an acoustical flaw with the room. Love what you do Gene, thanks for all the knowledge and keeping this audio landscape "real", cheers.
I was born an audiophile. From my youngest years I have loved music. As a small boy, some of my most treasured memories are based around music. When Mum and Dad put records on I learnt every word to every song. The music they played became the soundtrack to my life. We didn’t have much money but we didn’t care. As I grew I embraced a love of music in many ways. I leant to sing and play the guitar. At my many gigs (over 30 years) I covered the music I was raised on and the audience loved it. As an adult I invested in audio equipment and have many high end products. But I still take the time to listen to music on a small compact cassette player. I do this to make sure it’s the music I love and not the vanity of owning expensive equipment. I still own gear from the 60’s all the way through to now. It’s the music I love - whether it be mono or Dolby Atmos. I am an audiophile that’s for sure. I love music and music reproduction. God help the person who has attached their Ego to the noun “audiophile”. I’ve heard the devil has an absolutely kick-arse hi fi and invites his “audiophile” mates to gather round and admire the sound. But they are never ever really satisfied and complain incessantly that “their mate in heaven has a better sound with less gear” and if “the devil would just invest in better cables and more expensive equipment” the devil could improve his system. It does not end well for those “audiophiles” especially when they play “The devil went down to Georgia” as their “reference source”. Apparently the devil is writing a new song called “Red Hot Pokers In Your Rears” and the word around heaven is he is not talking about “the rears” speakers in his 389 channel 720 degree mega bass surround sound system where he won’t hear a word about “room treatment” or “speaker placement” or ……………. Ha ha ha ha - Alex in Perth Western Australia
Audiophile is just a term that is used to describe a hobby of music listening. That is all. Same as a person being called a film buff or a supporter of a team.
Gene , I figure you ruffled a few feathers with this video which is a good one by the way . I've always loved music and good music is supposed to be played loud in my opinion. Good equipment is definitely a great thing but I also think some audiophiles are stricken with a case of OCD and a little bit to full of themselves. Just my thoughts about the matter. Great job Gene .
I think the idea of what an audphile and what is high fidelity sound, also needs to evolve as well. I'm a audphile, but mostly geared towards gaming, some of the best surround sound experiences I've had where playing games that have ATMOS soundtracks like Halo Infinite, Call of Duty modern warfare, and battlefield 1. A moderate Video Game sound track isn't that different than a movie soundtrack and many times is better because it's rendered in real time, and different everytime you listen to it, it's never the same.
Audiophile is really about the equipment which can be applied to watching movies, games, music or even podcasts. It covers everything from speakers, amps, processors, rooms, seating position and the codecs. You do not have to be into all of it to be an audiophile.
I love that because the one thing I love or I hate hearing somebody tell somebody else's that you're doing it wrong. And that's exactly what I told him and that's the one thing that might be missing is when we went out and bought albums and came back and sat down the living room floor and listen to them and went through reading everything about the album and just enjoy it it's not supposed to be so frustrating. I guess I'm about a year away from turning 50 so I guess I'm just about done spending money going down that rabbit hole. All right of course after I buy those velour earpads that that's the last thing
I have more or less not listened to music in many, many years. (I did even play in a band 20 years ago, was above average interested in music) But about 1 year ago I bought 2 new Triangle bookshelf speakers, first time I have had a bit more of a better speaker, and it "reignited" my fondness of music! I did have huge tower speakers before this, big sub and such, they could play loud and shake the room, but in comparison to what I have now it is sooo much better, also smaller and much easier to adjust and get a good position on. I really enjoy the good sound they fill the room with, they are also good for film and games. Suddenly there is sounds and stuff I have never heard before! Awesome!
Hey Gene. I really like that you put the emphasis on the person. Anyone who strives to improve sound quality from ANY system is an audiophile. The equipment is but one means of doing so. The room is another. BTW I do have cable risers.. they allow me to run the vacuum cleaner under them without having to bend my old man back over to move them.🤠
Well, that's all fine and dandy, and everyone who makes art does it for reasons they believe are true to themselves, but Steve Hacket is worth about 20 million, while Phil Collins is worth about 300 million. It seems making a few hit singles along the way isn't such a bad path to take for an artist/musician.
Oh I'm and audiophile. One of your points i agreed with is when you're using muli-channel surround sound for music, you get engulfed and so immersed into the track that it feels as if your speakers have ceased to exist and you're surrounded by that absolutely exceptional warm buttery sound that's like the voice of god. That's what i feel like when I'm listening to my system. And i have 200 drivers. I always find myself tearing up when i hear the beauty of instruments as if it's right in from of me. Yeah i love music. And my system and my passion allows me to love it even more.
I still don't like the word. For myself there isn't the wish to reclaim it. Music enthusiast is still good enough and pretty precise. But I get your point and agree. Oliver Sacks, a British neurologist, published 2007 the book "Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain". Maybe we should call it that?
Hey bud I remember your name from cheapaudioman live stream! Well, I remember randy trying to pronounce it 😆 Musicophilia is quite a mouthful. Sounds harsh, and etched. Fatiguing. Lol. But I think there is a better psychological term that already fits the pursuit: it's called OCD. I know not all of us suffer this with our equipment and enjoyment of music with it, but I can relate in terms of the amount of time and energy spent contemplating and experimenting and researching gear to elevate the performance to a higher level. Enjoyment, sure. Obsession over every last detail. Absolutely.
@@erics.4113 If so, then my OCD goes into the music itself. Into the compositions. In the different interpretations by artists or conductors. I try to have heard pretty much everything that has been worked out in jazz and classic and buy the records that inspire me the most. My interest in buying new technology is limited. Some things I find technologically interesting. But all in all, somehow every two weeks a new game changer is hunted through RUclips. It's tiring and doesn't inspire much confidence.
@@farbschlachterei I agree with you about inspiring confidence, or lack of. Other than class D and streaming digital music, what significant gains have really been made recently in audio? Diminishing levels of noise and distortion that were already below human thresholds? The relatively static/stagnant design language of speakers, despite advancements in measuring systems, computer simulation, advanced construction or CNC machining techniques, advancements in material sciences and the inexpensive and readily available market (pre-covid) for all things transistors, resistors and the commodity chip market. Yet what do we still see a lot of? Kevlar carbon fiber advanced ceramic berrylium magnesium CNC computer DSP? Sure, some of that. But we also have 3-way classic designs. Pure paper cone drivers. Soft done tweeters. It's almost as if technology pushed into new frontiers, then took a serious back-peddle towards the design language of yesteryears. Is it nostalgia or does it simply sound better? Or just what we are all used to? I'm not sure. But one thing doesn't seem to change. A system that sounded good yesterday will sound good today and tomorrow! And I agree. The music is truly the frontier that pushes this all forward.
@@erics.4113 by the way. This thing with Randy and my name was quite funny. My real name is pretty easy to pronounce for Americans. But only if you accept it to be complety wrong pronounced. But I really did not expect "Farbschlachterei" to be unpronouncable.
Gene, I can never be an audiophile. I will never have $5000 to spend on a cables that are really worth $25. I really wish someone as educated and experienced as you would finally put the cable issue to rest with a recording o-scope, a calibrated signal generator, standardized testing methods, etc....... Thank you for all that you do to help us simply enjoy ourselves, our gear and the media we want to. Bravo Gene D.!
For myself I can accept that the term has different connotations. It's about the beauty in music personally. The better it's beauty is presented the more appealing it becomes.
I agree, I love my secondhand matantz sr4600 7.1 with 1000 euro for all the speakers. I have spent all energy on speaker placement and (living)room layout. Fact is that poor room design simply cannot be compensated with more expensive hardware. Listening to quadrophonic or dolby digital music (daft punk random access memory's for example) is amazing. My limiting factor is not the capability in buying more expensive hardware. My limiting factor is my brain and ears. I am a audiophile!
It's great that you addressed this topic because the term audiophile really got lost in the understanding of common Joe's ignorance. I think it can be an understandable analogy if we use cars. Most people need a practical car that will transport a certain number of people, groceries and things safely, conveniently, comfortably and reliably at the lowest possible cost. Just that. So a basic audio for the average person is one capable of playing music, which is what that person wants. He likes music, his style of music, probably of low quality, he doesn't have much criteria, neither in relation to the songs nor in relation to the degree of reproduction of these. It's just basic and shallow entertainment. The problem starts at the other pole: High end. Returning to the cars. A "high end" car is what comes out of the idea of transportation. Finally in summary the best sports car is not a racing car nor an SUV it is in fact an off road vehicle. Worse, neither a road is a race track nor is common Joe a race car pilot! We end up with people who are no longer interested in music and are either interested in technical specifications and the delivery of that, or worse, in showing off their wealth by being able to buy brands and show off with it. I think audiophilia is everything that's in between these two aberrations. Greetings from Brazil.
Totally agree with your comments. Still wondering why I loved Carlsson OA5 orthoacoustic during 1970 when I listened to Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix. Today all speakers are generally directed direct to the listener. My absolute favorite was Carlsson/ Sonab OA 12 for guitar music. Nowardays I have Dynaudio Evoke 30 that are very good but direct to listening position. Orthoacustic seem to be totally dead nowerdays.
They may have been very good speakers back then and you experienced them for the first time. So that magical first time listening may have blown you away. Today your nostalgic brain maybe imagining back to them in a different way. They also may have a characteristic that you find hard to find today. For many things the first time maybe the best time for a hundred different reasons.
I like Steve Guttenberg's definition, "A person who listen's to music to the exclusion of other activities." (a paraphrase) Based on this, I am an audiophile. Typically I call myself an audio hobbyist.
Thanks. Yes, I am an audiophile. I care about how my records are reproduced. I've dished out a serious amount of money for my current equipment. But guess what, I cared about reproduction of records long before I could afford to spend money on this.
One reason we all used to engage with music so much more is because we weren't trying to be so aloof and objective. We didn't have a bunch of physics guys always telling us that what we're hearing isn't real unless we measure it first to make sure.
I've listened to gene / audioholics for years now and have always enjoyed their videos. When it comes to things like cables & bitrates, I'm definitely more on the objective side of the fence. I don't believe cables make a difference. However, I'm open to the possibility that there may be a difference that our current technology simply can't measure. A favourite quote of mine is this: "Not everything that matters can be measured, and not everything that can be measured necessarily matters." I'm not attracted to the idea that there's nothing beyond what we can measure. Some are, & I think this is where the divide begins. I think gene's ivory tower reference of the subjectivist audiophiles isn't particularly charitable. Alot of the audiophiles I listen to, while def on the subjective side, aren't remotely like this, & don't believe that you need to drop $10K on an audio setup for great sound. Interestingly, I think that the ivory tower description is far more fitting for the objectivists - you only need to read some of the disagreements online to see this. I do agree with gene about the high end audio business. There's nothing I find more frustrating than when I watch an audio product reviewed, only to discover at the end of the review that it costs double to 3 times my entire setup, not to mention companies that sell their cables for thousands of dollars. I'll never spend that kind of money on cables. I think Schiit Audio is a great example. Love these guys & their attitude towards the industry. They want to get more people into audio, & have made every effort to make good, cheap audio accessible to the general population. I'm not a fan of audio snobbery, & hope to see it die. My system cost me $3.5K total - Topping D50s DAC, Burson Funk amp, & KEF LS50 Metas. This is a desktop setup, & sounds phenomenal.
To me the word audiophile is a person that wants to get the very best out of the music that they love by understanding the room and system that they have.
we all love messing about with our music rooms. i polish my appliances and speakers at least once a week. if thats not being addictive to my music toys i dont know what is. im also a guy who likes to see all the cables as tidy as can be, all my appliances squared up with the hifi unit they all stand on. i listen nearly every night for around an hour minimum , go on you tube every night to listen to this place plus at least another 5 channels to see what the latest hifi news is.or what i can learn from Gene and the other guys.. im always saving up for the next new purchase and love surfing the net for new reviews on just about anything to do with our past time. so as you can see if im not an audiophile ,ive no idea what one is...
Hey Gene, idk if it’s your thing but the newest Evanescence sounds good upmixed with DSU (center spread on of course) she’s got some live concert videos. Makes for a good experience.
I'm an audiophile! 11.2 system, each set of speakers was given to me except my 4 ceiling speakers and 2 subs. I've not lost sight of the connection with those people and the connection to the music being one in the same-- it gives me a deeper sense of meaning to the gift of life.
Do you have a video about measuring and adjusting your room acoustics? I've measured speakers before, but I feel as though measuring your room is a completely different process.
Online music has destroyed the LP. In fact, I bought a friend's a CD of "The Who's" greatest hits. He only listened to one song on it -- never tried the others.
I do not think online has destroyed music. It is really is no different from listening to the radio. I am afraid the music industry as a whole has been in decline and is rock bottom. They simply are not productive and modern pop music is not even music. People simply are not willing to pay for all that trash you will find that people still go out of their way to pay for older music though. My son recently went out and bought a series of older pop music but would never do the same for modern pop.
I’m with you 100%, When I first heard people framing Audiophile as synonymous with high faluting pseudoscience, I shrugged that bullshjt right off. I never ceded the term to begin with. People are so tribalistic, and wrapped up in whats called a “false consensus” which is where people assume their community has a unified and shared sense of values, when in reality the community is extremely diverse. It can lead people to try to oust someone they disagree with, seeing them as an interloper that the whole community must also collectively disagrees with. But it’s actually just them. You can even have factions believing that an ideology is unnatural to the community, trying to purge and cleanse the community of all those who bring the taint. “False consensus” causes tons of group frictions and power struggles, once you see it, those problems begin to unravel and are allot easier to mediate. Theynembolden people to engage in righteous conflict, which creates huge rifts, and it’s all just perception and projection. We fool ourselves thinking people who share hobbies are like minded, which is a deep insight for those looking to find like minded friends, often they won’t even share interests with you. It’s more a style of thinking, or the energy that lives in their heart. Dating apps connecting people based on their interests are missing that chemistry entirely. Some hobbies thatnhave a strong ethics or values component can get people closer to like minded people, but even there people can reach the same ethical conclusions from different avenues. Like someone motivated by spite, and another by altruism, but they both on paper share the same beliefs. I feel the style, and the energy of our heart is where true chemistry lies, and they sometimes even reach different conclusions, so you have to look across the isle to find them. Just because you’re all kayakers doesn’t mean you have the same feelings towards motorcraft. I love motorboat, and I love audio, and in my book that’s enough to be an audiophile. Anyone that tries to tell you what you can and cannot love, or limit what culture or community is beating in your heart, can F-k right off. One person’s definitions are no more valid than anyone else’s.
I've got a pair of intimidation studio s3000 floor standers........ Fairly cheap speakers, however I always thought they sounded shallow and needed loudness turned on to get a good bass from them don't even consider source direct and that is with 10awg ofc from amp to speaker. So I opened them up and what did I find? 18awg wire going from the crossover to the first 10" then onto the second 10" so I wired both direct to the crossover with 12awg wire and..... Boom what a difference also this dropped the overall impedance from 6 ohm's to 4 ohm's Now the bass is deep and rich. Source direct sounds best. I know they aren't exactly audiophile grade speakers actually far from it but they do me fine. Couldn't believe that they would fit such crappy wires internally adding 2 ohm's impedance. Haven't changed anything else only the internal wire. PS I'm an audio enthusiast.
Everyone who loves music can gain perspective by implementing some Basic laws of equipment and practice one main problem i see in this forum There is some Audio Quackery if thats even a term
So, is BOSE speakers audiophile or the Wave Radio? Does listening to my 8-track make me a non-audiophile because the gear is not considered universally great? And yes, I use cryo firehose power cables and cable lifters to lift the veil and bring out the caramel highs and decadent chocolate mids in my 8-track
I agree Gene 100%. Members of the Church of Analog are now freaking out upon discovering that the evil digital has been present in their reference" hitherto analog" Mofi records. That might mean that analog is not better afterall, which would mean that they are not superior to knuckle-dragging digital listeners.
There argument maybe that the presence of digital does not overwhelm the analog musical experience. Such as a wonderful singer, musical instruments and maybe some digital instrument being part of the process.
i like music, and like listening to it on systems that can give justice to it by providing a naturaly plausible interpretation of the recorded thing. i like to tinker on my stuff to make it able to do that on sound in general, as i don't want to be genre or context limited. does that make me an audiophile? i work with a tiny budget (student) and use hand me downs, sales and diy work. all active components. and my computer as a dac. does that disqualify me? on my computer i work with (free) audio restauration programms that guess missing sounds in lossy formats, as a sizable lossless library would cut into my budget too much and some artists i listen to don't provide lossless. does that diqualify me? i can distinguish 320kbps from lossless with a high accuracy on test, but with the restauration i can't tell which is which, although it sound different. does that requalify me? i think music in its natural form is different in any place and any position. with live being played different every time. so having a perfect system or listening to "the one perfect version" is not doable. thats why i think plausible naturality, in all aspects of sound (relevant audibly interacting frequency range, dynamics, frequency accuracy, transients, harmonics, stability, frequency power, etc. ) is more desireable and gives a wider range of interpretative but guiderailed liberty. working towards that to ones best ability to get the most out of a sonic experience that way is what i consider to be audiophile. that can be done at every budget. its a philosophy
@Douglas Blake the snipe hunt is why i go for "plausible interpretation" as a goal. music is always interpretation. i selected my computers motherboard (asus prime x470 pro) specificaly because its sound chip has a seperate power line, is isolated on the board, has EM shielding, yamaha capacitors, decent size mosfets and is a dual chip for seperated stereo channel calculation. by far the most expensive part of my system. my sound system is a frankensteinian active speaker stereo wall of sound, hooked together from cheap or second hand stuff. for example: using some rewired cheap squeaky pc speakers as treble horns, rewired boomy 90's pc speakers as mid bass horns, a harsh jvc compact stereo to supply the transients the other parts lack, as well as a mission as70 100 watt stereo subwoofer saved from being thrown away. a sharp wq-t352h and set of creative t20 sII speakers can be hooked up to that abomination in phase and placement correct (took a lot of fine tuning) ways too. total cost 95€. i have surprised a few people with it, as it can hold up with systems more than 10 times its price. for my audio library i rely on 320kbps mp3. i use winamp with the madlib codec and thimeo stereotool dsp as a player. for output i use direct sound, as my soundchip has a bitperfect hardware solution for that which outclasses the wasapi software solution in performance. i use the stereotool dsp for real time audio restoration: stereo widening, harmonic bass synthesis (with a soft clipper to keep it in check), harmonic trebble extrapolation (up to 24 khz), multiband compressor based algorythmic transient increase and a negative output gain to prevent clipping. the result is a music theory compliant plausible filling of mp3 spectral holes, reduced ringing, as well restored sound stage and dynamics. i think this approach has its merrits.
@Douglas Blake too much information from my side. sorry for that. the core thing is just that with tinkering and searching you can get surprisingly good sound out of low price components, and that plausibly natural interpretation is a part of any sound reproduction automaticaly, so that deliberate aspects like restoration aren't realy worse if the bring it closer to that goal.
@Douglas Blakecriticising wall of repaired/reused trash approaches makes absolute sense. there is a slim chance for it to sound anything but horrible or just burst into flames. i only use it as i could not resonably afford the components when brand new or in ready made packages, while being resonably good at diy and having good ears to tune that mutation of a stereo system. it certainly is not a top system, thats sure in any case. i've heared infinetly better systems. but i've also heared more expensive systems that sounded worse. for 95€ it does a very good job though, but thats a competition with other cheap speakers. the edifier r1280, creative t40, or bose companion 2 play in that price range and are good, but my system outclasses them. it beats my fathers setup (telefunken tlx 22/4 proffesional, quadral sub45mk2 active, sony ta-ax4, line 6 ux2 ) by a tiny amount (we both and a few other agree on that, though he resonably dislikes the frankenstein approach). anything better should leave it in the dust. so it actualy enters the realm of hifi, but only just. good for low budget builders or as a weird art piece, but not recommended for anything else. i thouroughly enjoy the audiophile approach to sound though, as it helps to get the best out of what i got (so far) .
@Douglas Blake acoustic/electronical engineering approach could be a better word than audiophile, though the goal is the same. soundbars are often sub par for their price. showing how its done makes sense. from what i read online, edifier r1280t's outclass dayton b352 + amps. they are active components though of course. my system is definetly luck based. i started by hooking two old basement find speaker sets from my dad together. one sounded like a bathtub, the other like a tin can. together they were surprisingly fine. i then added and fine tuned from there. and it somehow worked towards a better-than-its-sum-of-parts sound. using active components, with most having tonal controls, made the setup feasable. that first coincidence started me on the path of optimizing my listening experience. skeptical friends liked it after listening too, with one asking me to build them the same system (with which they are happy now) and another one asking me to help set up their 5.1 system correctly.
@Douglas Blake i have no interest in spending money in physical impossibilities. what i am doing with my current setup is not a fully thorough scientific approach, its backyard science at best. knowing the rough physics, what zo listen for, and how to interprete and act upon the results. good enough for ehat it is, as thourough measurement and indept calculation would be lost with my cheap but overly complex setup. so i do things like speaker setup, speaker feet cushioning, rearange curtains for room dampening, keep track of proper wiring and so on. physicaly explainable things that can be easily applied with some measuring tape and a good ear.
It took five years of patience to get my first real system. Thing about working in the biz as opposed to just being a consumer opened my eyes. What made the basement so good was the acoustics and great gear didn’t hurt. NAD, Thorens, Spectral, ASC, Merrill Heirloom. There were more lines. Being a part of making someone happy to play their music on their gear and grinning the whole time. Spending time setting gear up at residences was fun also. Listening sessions were eating, drinking and most importantly listening to great music with friends. That’s good stuff! Cheers all!
I was born in the early 1960s and audiophile definition has changed over the years. The audiophiles of the 1960s was Reel to Reel and beautiful systems. The 1970s was almost the same but more Vynal instead of tape. However my first rememberable sound system was in the late 70s with Radio Shacks Mach Speakers, this guy had 4 of them each with 15" drivers. He played a Vynal of 2001 A Space Adyssy. The pipe organs blew me away. Later in the early 1980s the audiophiles were not into "Crank It Up, Piss off all your neighborhood and everyone living in building too. No instead the volume was maybe only 70Ibs. just slightly louder than average talking level. The the 1990s happened and everything was about defining volume and over blown sub bass. The early 2000s happened and still way too loud and too much bass. Now in the 2022 area the trend seems to be super Flat with almost no Bass or high frequencies. While still loud. The best music is at reasonable level that doesn't make your ears ring for three days after. A good volume around 70 db will save your hearing and not piss off the neighborhood. Sounds Better Too.
2:58 Vinyl is also hard to ruin the master when recording on media. Many modern recordings on CD have levels maxed out or have huge bass boosts. These are often absent in the same album's vinyl counterpart. I would much rather have some popping and distortion than having my ears bleed from crappy mixing.
I get sick of people automatically saying a product has better resolution just because its more expensive when we know thats false and BS based on research. I have tried many high end headphones and come away disappointed because they just had awful tuning and sounded like they measured. Theres no point in exotic materials if you cant get basic tuning correct. Recently i settled on the Moondrop Venus a planar headphone tuned somewhat similar to a HD600 which means its flat maybe very slightly sibilant but the extension in bass doesn't roll off till under 30hz and its very gradual below that too. This is a Chinese company so naturally the price is lower but i think they give Audeze and hifimans a run for there money.
I don't like or use the term. I do like to have a 'good' (perceived sound system) that let's me hear everything on a recording, discrete or otherwise. The one thing that it seems is never talked about is the actual recorded sound and mixing of the recordings, it's all about the reproduction on through your system. Bad recordings will sound bad so matter what kind of system you have and now more frequently because of financing issues more music is recorded live and patched with studio reproduction and mixed with mixed results, ditto remastering of older recordings. There are people, a friend comes to mine, who while not exactly verbalizing it look down on products like Marantz, Denon, Emotiva, because they are considered cheap (anything under $2000.00) and for the masses and that goes for speakers also. So if I were to use the term 'Audiophile' for me it would mean someone who enjoys the experience of listening to music, what it is played on while important is peripheral to the experience. BTW for full disclosure I have spent thousands of dollars on receivers, speakers DVD and CD players seeking listening perfection based on reviews of specs, room correction software, you name it.
I never liked the term "audiophile". Besides sharing a syllable with pedophile, I find it pretentious. I refer to myself as an audio enthusiast. Besides I think in order to be considered a audiophile, you have to hear the difference mpingo discs make in your system and I can't. I guess, at best, I'm a sub-audiophile. ;)
I like the definition of Audiophile by Merriam Webster and to some degree, Wikipedia. And I'm OK with the term "audiophile" and don't mind being referred to as one. I especially like the concept of listening with one's ears rather than "listening" by using measurements. In my world, being an audiophile simply means that you prefer listening to anything that produces a quality listening experience that is generally only capable by audio equipment that is regarded as "above-average". It does not have to be a mega $$ system. But, it is generally NOT sound produced out of a phone, tablet, OEM car speaker, bluetooth speaker, etc. They key to audiophile sound reproduction is the conversion of electrical signals using a speaker to create acoustical signal energy. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of high quality speakers. And those speakers have to be driven by "quality electronics." And of course, the source material is critically important to the faithful reproduction of high quality sound. All that being said, when the arguments regress to "gear and equipment" among audiophiles - that's where I draw the line. I have several "systems" and all of them are "decent" (audiophile worthy - albeit not necessarily super expensive). My main system is expensive, yes - but not outrageous like an overzealous audiophile would insist upon. Again, that's where I drawn the line. In closing, it's all about the music. And the music matters - right? So, for me, as I engage in the listening experience, I prefer that the sound quality be above-average, at a minimum. If that makes me an audiophile, so be it.
to me the definition of an audiophile is simply someone who cares about the sound quality when listening to music. Inside this broad definition is a whole spectrum of degrees of being an audiophile which is what people argue about.
Hello from Montreal, I think the definition should be as simple as possible because as long there is enthusiasm, care and passion for the hobby without specifics to gear etc. then you are a audiophile. You could compare it to sports, you could be a hockey fan and it doesn’t mean you need to have season tickets to your favourite team. You could love watching minor hockey. I’ve always had a music playback system since my teens and it’s now evolved to separates with both analog and digital sources. We should not judge the extreme s from the kid starting out to the guy with the income and the people who like to tweak. The internet has inotated us with information positive and negative and that includes the audio hobby. As long as we know this we can move on and enjoy our hobby.
I am and as always Gene good explanation from an engineer point of view. I however have pro audio equipment and don’t use overpriced and overrated home audio equipment.
I don't watch this channel enough. I think anyone can really consider them self an audiophile. I find the analog vs digital debate interesting. Most I know prefer vinyl but I prefer digital. I also noticed when listening to a dvd or blu-ray, the 5.1 sounds more clear to me compared to the 2.0 stereo on cd. At least to me it sounds better.
As you know, every technical term is a term of art. The term audiophile works differently in different contexts for different purposes. The fact that you’re trying to pin it down, is interesting. But you must admit that the term can be as variable as the term foodie.
Considering a vinyl pressing is made from a reel to reel master tape or digital recordings these days and the grooves cant be cut as deep or wide as those formats can actually record and reproduce should tell you all you need. With that being said. Yes vinyl is cool and has probably the biggest catalog of music out there but yes it is a very flawed format and uses it's own kind of compression techniques and calling it truly analog is kind of silly too.
vinyls flaws have an interesting effect: its distortions are harmonic, meaning they sound like a plausible natural musical aspect, not like a disharmonic noise, when added to the specific recording. every natural place sounds different, and vinyl sounds like a plausible natural thing. the smoothing of peaks and compression in vinyl in its analog form makes things sound more like a natural performance in a small room (live music played softer to be lidtenable in it): the minimum volume an instrument/a voice is set, but the loudest things are room instead of concert level, so there is less dynamics. and more quite play means also softer play. so vinyl sounds more room-concert like. this makes vinyl sound "flawless", as its flaws sound like natural music to us.
Sadly many RUclips reviewers are classifying an audiophile as snobs. Maybe my definition differs, but I've considered an audiophile as an individual looking for sound reproduction that delivers the source material as neutral without coloration as possible. That's dependent on multiple sources, but speakers in my years as an audiophile add the most coloration to the signal source.
@Douglas Blake I don't think taking pride in an expensive system is wrong, but I understand " the laws of diminishing returns" and agree that after a certain price point, what are you getting that's significantly or appreciably justifies the extra money. But I never begrudged someone ( and I have a friend that has a KEF R11 front speakers, Technics amp replacing Luxman - all big dollar items ) and the sound is like nothing I've ever heard - and I have decent equipment myself.
@Douglas Blake If I had that much disposable income at my fingers, I'm sure I would build a system out like that - but most of us don't. We're" affordable audiophiles" - my receiver and speakers cost me about $1800.00 - my sub another $550.00. And the sound is great - to me - and that's what truly counts in the end. But I sure could hear the difference between my friends KEF R11's and my speakers - no question about it. The nuances you can hear from his turntable with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge ( around $1000.00 ) and the previous Audio Technica one he was using is quite startling. All I'm saying is there are sonic differences you can disseminate - it's up to the individual to decide if he not only has the coin, but is his investment that much more substantial.
I think an 'audiophile' is someone who cares about audio quality and take the time to get the most out of whatever audio equipment they own. It doesn't need to be "high end" gear, in fact I think some esoteric gear is not aimed at audiophiles at all but just at people who have enough money to brag that they own the worlds most expensive speakers, etc.
Jean, I think you nailed it. We are all enthusiasts who are in the search for good quality and an enjoyable experience. I have loved listening to tidal music through my Atmos system. It's really an enjoyable experience that I highly recommend.
I have “entry level” equipment but every purchase I’ve made over the last 35 years has been a step up in audio quality. From a AM/FM cassette player I was gifted on my 13th birthday in 1987 to the Klipsch R-26 towers and R-12SW sun I’ve had for 6 years now have all been moving forward in quality. I like the sound and I’m the only one ever listening to it. I’m sure, if I had friends to come over and watch movies or listen to music that they would be impressed. I don’t have $10,000 to drop on gear and I’m in an apartment so I couldn’t use it if I wanted to. My cinematic experience at home is great and I’m sure when I buy something to add or replace the pieces I have, it’ll make it more immersive but it’s incremental.
The more important thing is that you like what you have, lately so called audiophile the tell you that is bad that is good and there word is law, bunch of snobs know it all
To me an Audiophile isn’t someone that has been sold a system but someone that has built a system for their room within their budget, and enjoyed the ride learning lots along the way about all things audio.
They are someone who climbed into the rabbit hole using a ladder and know when it’s time to sit and listen and enjoy for awhile before adjusting or adding additional equipment to meet their fix….
Always enjoyed you vids for many years. Honest and accurate testing, also you have done reviews of budget components. I'd like to thank you for your years of work!
If I am an audiophile... You gotta be kidding me asking such a question; I spent a full month+ building my own bass traps, making the flat into a construction zone where people had to step over half done bass traps, for weeks in a row. All for the sake of getting some more musical pleasure and better look&feel in the flat. The nicest thing, not one single bad word from my better half.... In fact she is co designer of the bass traps and helped improve the design 🙂
post a link for the bass trap construction
others are interested
@@williamtomkiel8215 I will make a thread on AH forums .... Check DIY sections there soon (next week)
Such a great video! I'm sure this will cause ripples among the snake oil salesmen, but I'm happy to see that you stick up for the little guy
I recall when I was a kid I had a cassette of Eliminator ( zztop) played on a basic amp / cassette player with Bose 301 speakers. I thought it was fantastic. My rig now is modest and it also sounds fantastic. About $3500 all in. Any upgrade would be extreme diminishing returns, short of a new room, which ain’t happening because I live in the real world, because we live in the living room, where we all dance and listen! And that’s what it’s all about.
Audiophile listen the equipment differences, speakers, amps, preamps, cables, interconnects, etc.; while non audiophile listen music contents, tones, voices, violins, pianos, etc.
I actually disagree. An audiophile will want his records faithfully reproduced, no more, no less. All that other stuff is more about the late addition that took over the party.
@Douglas Blake I did not aware that old joke, my observation comes with the same conclusion.
I have listened to so many different hifi systems, and it's true that more expensive hi-fi don't always equal better sound quality.
That's why i settled with the Gryphon Diablo 120 amplifier, and Audiovector R1 arrete speakers. I have listened to much more expensive hi-fi, but this was the best sound for me. I don't consider myself as an audiophile, but a music lover. And yes, room acoustics is extremly important
Yes, I am and am proud of the term. Audiophile's reside at all pricing levels.
I don't want to be an audiophile. I am enthusiastic about music, not its reproduction. I've spent the last couple years paying attention to some "audiophile" sources in trying to get good sounding components so I can enjoy music a little bit more. Audiophilia tends to involve listening to the same piece of music over and over again (different recordings, different playback equipment) to detect minute, often imaginary differences. I'm not generally very interested in that. Life is too short and there is too much great music out there I haven't heard yet.
That said, I very much appreciate audiophile sources that focus on technical information, engineering concepts, and things that are quantifiable and measurable. Audioholocs, ASR, Erin, etc. Good sources. On the other hand, the golden ear voodoo nonsense I find totally insufferable and offensive, populated by dupes, smooth talkers and charlatans.
Loving music is not the same as being an audiophile. One is about the music the other is about the equipment.
Audiophiles maybe into movies or even gaming.
You’ve just totally contradicted yourself. You appreciate audiophile sources so you can learn more about gear so you can then buy better components to enjoy better playback and enjoyment of music. Surely that’s the definition of an audiophile ? 😂
Audiophile means Audio-loving. The word 'Phile' comes from ancient Greek word, 'phileein' meaning to love. In the biology world, we regularly use words such as Hydrophilic and acidophilic, meaning water loving and acid loving. As opposed to Hydrophobic or acidophobic, which indicates a phobia to water or acid. The funny thing is, that in spite of loving audio, I have always avoided the word, because of the self-proclaimed audiophiles that are pompous, arrogant snobs. While, I’m not ready to embrace the audiophile label, I still love audio. I first got a subscription to Audiophile magazine and Curtico’s Home Theater magazine back in the early 90’s. Based on their reviews, I got a pair of NHT’s Super Zero’s and got my Bryston 4B amp through the Stereophile classified ads. That was the beginning of my journey into “better” quality audio. I’d say that 80% of my system is demo gear, floor samples or used equipment. I too embrace SACD and A-DVD, as well as Vinyl, but I’d say my digital system is of better quality than my analog reproduction system. One day I hope to get a better turntable with a MC cartridge. In any case, I don’t care with the audiophile snobs say, I still love audio. Thanks, Gene 👍
Thank you, Gene, for taking on this topic. I hate the term Audiophile because of all the reasons you mentioned! I have run up against so many audio snobs that love putting down other people's gear including mine simply because I haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. But when I try to explain to my friends what I have done with my system, they look at me as If I'm crazy! LOL. I have bought the best gear for me that I can afford so that I can enjoy my music and movies. I don't have any room treatments, because I don't want them. But I enjoy my 5.2 system just the same. BTW, it doesn't look like you have any room treatments in the room that you use to do these videos, unless they are simply out of sight. I'm glad you raised this topic, unfortunately, it isn't going to make a bit of difference to the snobs out there. So, while I might be an audiophile, I will never describe myself as one, because of the negativity of that term.
If I listed my equipment most so called specialists would laugh. But if I sat them down blindfolded and they had a listen they would say I spent 50k+.
Good idea. The problem is sound reproduction device fetishism, the industry that exploits this propensity for profit, and the fool's errand that ensues. All of the self-professed audiophile "experts" who don't base their assertions on falsifiable facts, lead you to think that sound is more important than music. Their modus operandi is "fascination" : Promoting sound for sound's sake is an exercise in fascination, the specialty of street hustlers and all manner of swindlers.
Seen from the music lover and rational mind's perspective, good sound is sound that supports musical enjoyment. None of us were present during the recordings, so we have zero subjective means to compare the reproduction to the original experience ; and the fact that most recordings are multi-tracked, overdubbed and heavily produced, means that there was NO original experience except that heard in the mixing and mastering rooms, through reproduction equipment... Therefore, the objective criteria that matter are that the consumer devices not introduce much character (distortion, noise) of their own and are able to produce a good deal of the frequency and dynamic range heard in the mastering room - all of which is measurable . The subjective criteria that matter are that consumers find their experience engaging and cost-effective.
The rest, the snobbery of owning name-brand boat anchors costing their weight in gold, has more to do with the lifestyle/luxury industry than it has to do with audio and music. The cocky, unconscionable snake oil salesmen who pontificate on RUclips, in stores and in magazines about ludicrous performance claims, are the same breed of folks who sell diamond-studded platinum watches to the insecure.
Perfect!
Device fetishism pretty much nails it when it comes to mainstream audiophilia, more so in the upper price range.
I fell into the Stereophile bandwagon 25 years ago and I ended up spending about the price of a small house on esoteric gear. It was bulky, heavy and finicky. The sound was indeed "superlative" but I soon realised I was paying attention to sound all the time, and I'd go from track to track inside my music collection, not to listen to music but to seek immediate and short-lived aural satisfaction, much like a coke addict runs through powder.
I got rid of the kit.
Today I enjoy a superior listening experience with a couple of relatively modest but well-made kits ; one with separate DAC (Topping) running into analogue Genelecs for my office near-field setup, and one that consists in nothing but LS-50W II's. The entire set of devices costs less than the MIT cables I used to run from Spectral monoblocks to Wilson Maxx.
While I feel like former self was a total fool, I am genuinely happy that armed with my first-hand experience of extreme high-end equipment, I know my new cheap commodity gear not only sounds just as good, it is now vanishing psychologically behind my recovered fondness of music.
I work in signal processing, so I am not naïve when it comes to electronics and transducers. I picked my new gear rationally, not because some pompous knob "reviewer" told me to.
There are two types of audio equipment reviewers ; honest, rational folks like Gene, Erin or Amir, who are faithful to the objective of producing worthwhile musical or cinema experiences using an optimal price/performance ratio; and the rest, whose names are too numerous to list here - unfortunately the vast majority of reviewers or salesmen on YT, magazines or local shops. The reality of the latter, is that they have a veiled financial interest in selling you high-margin gear, and they will lie to make a buck or to preserve their standing as a pawn in the big audio gear mafia.
@@phpn99 I see where this comes from, and I am glad you finally got out. I've never been quite there, but on the way. Then I did what the audio press told me, "trust your own ears (bet they didn't mean 'instead of theirs'...) and making sound choices. I've had my amps for 20 years, my speakers for about 17, my turntable for 9, my digital player for over 10. Truth is I enjoy my stereo the way it is, and keep buying records.
my friend, I couldn't have said it better. Thanks for sharing your experience.
As much I enjoy stereo sound, for me multi-channel has been my go to for sit back and relax. It's an entirely different experience when done right and to be honest I wasn't actually expecting it.
Thank you! 1000% agree. I love playing with my sound, trying different things for movies, games, and music. Even different genres of music are funny to fiddle with. I’m moving soon and already trying to plan how to squeeze the best sound out of the new space. I’m am audiophile.
Love this Gene! I hate how the term Audiophile has been in some ways high jinxed by a selection of elitist, forum dwelling gear snobs. As far as I’m concerned you are just as welcome in this hobby if you are using a sub $1000 entry level system as you are using $100000+ high end equipment. Being an audiophile is simply about using what gear you have to create enjoyable audio experiences. That’s why I love your channel, everyone is welcome without pretence or pre-qualification!
Ok pleb, if you're not getting your speakers blessed by a priest every week to cleanse them of evil spirts you're not an audiophile.
@@user-ue6iv2rd1n is that an attempt at humour? If so suggest you keep practicing buddy.
Yeah, we finally bought a house and I have a place that I can make a home cinema out of..... which is a shared living room.... and open on one side into the kitchen.
With that said, I have a tolerant significant other and I'm currently leaning towards getting the Arendal THX S series of speakers and multiple subs and even though my room is by no means optimal I want to take room acoustics seriously. The gear is fun sure, but I want to see what I can do here to actually tame this room as much as possible while having speakers in the correct positions and still allowing the children to run and play behind the listening position (in front will be a no running zone as the tower speakers will be there).
At any rate, I am looking forward to this. I would have wished for a more dedicated room for a home cinema but that is currently not in the cards and I am looking forward to doing the most with what I have, including multiple subs, height channels, room treatment (that does need to look good, but I have seen those that do). In the end I'm hoping for a 5.2.4 or 7.2.4.... or maybe even four subs but that will be later down the road if two are not enough.
Thanks for all the content Gene.
"You cannot manage what you cannot measure". Works in anything in life.
I loved your detailed researched reasoning. I am an audiophile. But I'm only a Junior Audioholic! To be an Audioholic one must help others in a manor consistent with the Audioholic forum rules and understand snake oil versus real difference making materials. I would urge all Audiophiles to try this. I have had great reward from the thanks I have received from helping other's choose materials and whole systems based on their budget and what their preferences are. Helping each other has that intrinsic reward that makes being an audiophile a shared enjoyable experience. Maybe someday I will become a full Audioholic and receive the badge of honor that goes with it!
Yes, you can say I'm an audio enthusiast. I agree with you about sitting down and listening to an album. Every Saturday I do all my yard work and when I am done I take a shower and sit down and listen to a album. Tomorrow I am going to listen to Frampton comes alive on vinyl. I sometimes will see a concert on Quello. Love your content keep sharing the knowledge.
I don't have a negative perception of the term. This is my new hobby. And that's that. I do chuckle at all the BS that is peddled. But if you dive into any leisure or luxury pursuit, they have their same BS.
I'm not immune to the BS, either. But I am at least aware and acknowledge that it exists. And I hedge my frontal lobe inclinations and desire to believe in fantasy with some measured sanity and research. I educate myself.
Hi Gene. I am an audiophile (so be the term) and I think what it means to be a great Hi-Fi enthusiast is trying different audio codecs and experimentation with different equipment. Recently, I bought a great tube amplifier and it is a way different experience than my solid state amp. It is those kinds of differences that make the hobby so great and what people should explore.
Thanks for all that you do and your home theater room is seriously top notch. I have a 5.1 mix copy of Genesis’s trick of the tail album and I’d pay the price of admission to listen to it on your system. :)
It really is a hobby about equipment.
I had a pair of JPW bookshelf speakers. I drove these with a Rega 3 turntable and a Naim mid-range integrated amp. Here's the rub, I sold my system 22 years after purchasing the JPWs and the system was impeccable. These speakers were like new, no degradation, no wear, no rot, even after playing for 22 years in smoke filled rooms. I paid $495Cnd in 1995 and they were worth every 2017 penny I sold it for. You just never know, and truly, I didn't listen to the marketing at the time of purchase, just my ears.
Great post as usual Gene!
I don't know if we can take back the term audiophile.
Outside of our clan of music lovers, the term has had a LOT of negative condemnation played on it. So many people look into our group, read and see so much of the audiophool type stuff going on. Water hose style speaker wiring floating in mid air, $5k+ power cords, green pens, Dr Frankenstein huge SET tube amps, and all that stuff has the rest of the world believing we're all nut cases. I'm 72 and have been chasing High Fidelity sound for near all that time, personally I find it embarrassing what the "high end" print and web media has done to the worlds perception of our passion for music reproduction.
I'd love to turn back the hands of time, I just don't think it's possible.
Sal1950
"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information? "Peter Aczel"
Excellent as always. I think without knowing the basic science of audio and electronics, audiophiles are prone to placebo effect.
I really hate the term "Audiophile", it's a label that divides people. We all appreciate music and great sound, it is human nature, no additional labels needed.
The key is knowledge, know what you like and learn about all the great technology and products that are available. It is a fantastic time to be in this hobby no matter your preference and budget, so many amazing products from so many manufacturers. Also a must to learn and implement proper room treatments, makes such a huge difference and will probably save you from spending money on new gear when the root cause is an acoustical flaw with the room.
Love what you do Gene, thanks for all the knowledge and keeping this audio landscape "real", cheers.
I was born an audiophile. From my youngest years I have loved music. As a small boy, some of my most treasured memories are based around music. When Mum and Dad put records on I learnt every word to every song. The music they played became the soundtrack to my life. We didn’t have much money but we didn’t care.
As I grew I embraced a love of music in many ways. I leant to sing and play the guitar. At my many gigs (over 30 years) I covered the music I was raised on and the audience loved it. As an adult I invested in audio equipment and have many high end products. But I still take the time to listen to music on a small compact cassette player.
I do this to make sure it’s the music I love and not the vanity of owning expensive equipment. I still own gear from the 60’s all the way through to now. It’s the music I love - whether it be mono or Dolby Atmos. I am an audiophile that’s for sure. I love music and music reproduction.
God help the person who has attached their Ego to the noun “audiophile”. I’ve heard the devil has an absolutely kick-arse hi fi and invites his “audiophile” mates to gather round and admire the sound. But they are never ever really satisfied and complain incessantly that “their mate in heaven has a better sound with less gear” and if “the devil would just invest in better cables and more expensive equipment” the devil could improve his system. It does not end well for those “audiophiles” especially when they play “The devil went down to Georgia” as their “reference source”.
Apparently the devil is writing a new song called “Red Hot Pokers In Your Rears” and the word around heaven is he is not talking about “the rears” speakers in his 389 channel 720 degree mega bass surround sound system where he won’t hear a word about “room treatment” or “speaker placement” or ……………. Ha ha ha ha - Alex in Perth Western Australia
Audiophile is just a term that is used to describe a hobby of music listening. That is all. Same as a person being called a film buff or a supporter of a team.
Gene , I figure you ruffled a few feathers with this video which is a good one by the way . I've always loved music and good music is supposed to be played loud in my opinion. Good equipment is definitely a great thing but I also think some audiophiles are stricken with a case of OCD and a little bit to full of themselves. Just my thoughts about the matter. Great job Gene .
I think the idea of what an audphile and what is high fidelity sound, also needs to evolve as well. I'm a audphile, but mostly geared towards gaming, some of the best surround sound experiences I've had where playing games that have ATMOS soundtracks like Halo Infinite, Call of Duty modern warfare, and battlefield 1. A moderate Video Game sound track isn't that different than a movie soundtrack and many times is better because it's rendered in real time, and different everytime you listen to it, it's never the same.
Audiophile is really about the equipment which can be applied to watching movies, games, music or even podcasts.
It covers everything from speakers, amps, processors, rooms, seating position and the codecs. You do not have to be into all of it to be an audiophile.
I love that because the one thing I love or I hate hearing somebody tell somebody else's that you're doing it wrong. And that's exactly what I told him and that's the one thing that might be missing is when we went out and bought albums and came back and sat down the living room floor and listen to them and went through reading everything about the album and just enjoy it it's not supposed to be so frustrating. I guess I'm about a year away from turning 50 so I guess I'm just about done spending money going down that rabbit hole. All right of course after I buy those velour earpads that that's the last thing
I have more or less not listened to music in many, many years. (I did even play in a band 20 years ago, was above average interested in music) But about 1 year ago I bought 2 new Triangle bookshelf speakers, first time I have had a bit more of a better speaker, and it "reignited" my fondness of music!
I did have huge tower speakers before this, big sub and such, they could play loud and shake the room, but in comparison to what I have now it is sooo much better, also smaller and much easier to adjust and get a good position on. I really enjoy the good sound they fill the room with, they are also good for film and games. Suddenly there is sounds and stuff I have never heard before! Awesome!
Well said! WELL SAID! I guess I’m a audiophile. But, I don’t really like being call a audiophile.
Hey Gene. I really like that you put the emphasis on the person. Anyone who strives to improve sound quality from ANY system is an audiophile. The equipment is but one means of doing so. The room is another. BTW I do have cable risers.. they allow me to run the vacuum cleaner under them without having to bend my old man back over to move them.🤠
Steve Hackett stated that when he left Genesis is when they went from doing albums to doing collections of potential singles. Couldn't agree more.
Well, that's all fine and dandy, and everyone who makes art does it for reasons they believe are true to themselves, but Steve Hacket is worth about 20 million, while Phil Collins is worth about 300 million. It seems making a few hit singles along the way isn't such a bad path to take for an artist/musician.
Oh I'm and audiophile. One of your points i agreed with is when you're using muli-channel surround sound for music, you get engulfed and so immersed into the track that it feels as if your speakers have ceased to exist and you're surrounded by that absolutely exceptional warm buttery sound that's like the voice of god. That's what i feel like when I'm listening to my system. And i have 200 drivers. I always find myself tearing up when i hear the beauty of instruments as if it's right in from of me. Yeah i love music. And my system and my passion allows me to love it even more.
@Douglas Blake well you can look at it that way if you want. lmao.
I still don't like the word. For myself there isn't the wish to reclaim it. Music enthusiast is still good enough and pretty precise.
But I get your point and agree.
Oliver Sacks, a British neurologist, published 2007 the book "Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain".
Maybe we should call it that?
Hey bud I remember your name from cheapaudioman live stream! Well, I remember randy trying to pronounce it 😆
Musicophilia is quite a mouthful. Sounds harsh, and etched. Fatiguing. Lol.
But I think there is a better psychological term that already fits the pursuit: it's called OCD. I know not all of us suffer this with our equipment and enjoyment of music with it, but I can relate in terms of the amount of time and energy spent contemplating and experimenting and researching gear to elevate the performance to a higher level. Enjoyment, sure. Obsession over every last detail. Absolutely.
@@erics.4113 If so, then my OCD goes into the music itself. Into the compositions. In the different interpretations by artists or conductors. I try to have heard pretty much everything that has been worked out in jazz and classic and buy the records that inspire me the most.
My interest in buying new technology is limited. Some things I find technologically interesting. But all in all, somehow every two weeks a new game changer is hunted through RUclips. It's tiring and doesn't inspire much confidence.
@@farbschlachterei I agree with you about inspiring confidence, or lack of.
Other than class D and streaming digital music, what significant gains have really been made recently in audio? Diminishing levels of noise and distortion that were already below human thresholds?
The relatively static/stagnant design language of speakers, despite advancements in measuring systems, computer simulation, advanced construction or CNC machining techniques, advancements in material sciences and the inexpensive and readily available market (pre-covid) for all things transistors, resistors and the commodity chip market.
Yet what do we still see a lot of? Kevlar carbon fiber advanced ceramic berrylium magnesium CNC computer DSP? Sure, some of that.
But we also have 3-way classic designs. Pure paper cone drivers. Soft done tweeters.
It's almost as if technology pushed into new frontiers, then took a serious back-peddle towards the design language of yesteryears.
Is it nostalgia or does it simply sound better? Or just what we are all used to?
I'm not sure. But one thing doesn't seem to change. A system that sounded good yesterday will sound good today and tomorrow!
And I agree. The music is truly the frontier that pushes this all forward.
@@erics.4113 well said.
@@erics.4113 by the way. This thing with Randy and my name was quite funny. My real name is pretty easy to pronounce for Americans. But only if you accept it to be complety wrong pronounced. But I really did not expect "Farbschlachterei" to be unpronouncable.
“There is no such thing as ‘high fidelity,’” said the late audio pioneer Paul Klipsch. “Either you’ve got fidelity, or you’ve got infidelity.”
Gene, I can never be an audiophile. I will never have $5000 to spend on a cables that are really worth $25. I really wish someone as educated and experienced as you would finally put the cable issue to rest with a recording o-scope, a calibrated signal generator, standardized testing methods, etc.......
Thank you for all that you do to help us simply enjoy ourselves, our gear and the media we want to. Bravo Gene D.!
All of my 8-track tapes are now worthless? No, No, No....... Thanks so much for sharing a very good point.
you have all said, thanks!! People out there: move on, listen & enjoy. music is humanity...
For myself I can accept that the term has different connotations. It's about the beauty in music personally. The better it's beauty is presented the more appealing it becomes.
I've always seen myself as an audiophile, I run some of the cheapest stuff (since it's DIY, quality reproduction is easier on such a budget).
I agree, I love my secondhand matantz sr4600 7.1 with 1000 euro for all the speakers. I have spent all energy on speaker placement and (living)room layout.
Fact is that poor room design simply cannot be compensated with more expensive hardware.
Listening to quadrophonic or dolby digital music (daft punk random access memory's for example) is amazing.
My limiting factor is not the capability in buying more expensive hardware. My limiting factor is my brain and ears.
I am a audiophile!
It's great that you addressed this topic because the term audiophile really got lost in the understanding of common Joe's ignorance.
I think it can be an understandable analogy if we use cars.
Most people need a practical car that will transport a certain number of people, groceries and things safely, conveniently, comfortably and reliably at the lowest possible cost. Just that.
So a basic audio for the average person is one capable of playing music, which is what that person wants. He likes music, his style of music, probably of low quality, he doesn't have much criteria, neither in relation to the songs nor in relation to the degree of reproduction of these. It's just basic and shallow entertainment.
The problem starts at the other pole: High end.
Returning to the cars.
A "high end" car is what comes out of the idea of transportation. Finally in summary the best sports car is not a racing car nor an SUV it is in fact an off road vehicle. Worse, neither a road is a race track nor is common Joe a race car pilot!
We end up with people who are no longer interested in music and are either interested in technical specifications and the delivery of that, or worse, in showing off their wealth by being able to buy brands and show off with it.
I think audiophilia is everything that's in between these two aberrations.
Greetings from Brazil.
Totally agree with your comments. Still wondering why I loved Carlsson OA5 orthoacoustic during 1970 when I listened to Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix. Today all speakers are generally directed direct to the listener. My absolute favorite was Carlsson/ Sonab OA 12 for guitar music. Nowardays I have Dynaudio Evoke 30 that are very good but direct to listening position. Orthoacustic seem to be totally dead nowerdays.
They may have been very good speakers back then and you experienced them for the first time. So that magical first time listening may have blown you away. Today your nostalgic brain maybe imagining back to them in a different way. They also may have a characteristic that you find hard to find today.
For many things the first time maybe the best time for a hundred different reasons.
I like Steve Guttenberg's definition, "A person who listen's to music to the exclusion of other activities." (a paraphrase) Based on this, I am an audiophile. Typically I call myself an audio hobbyist.
Thanks. Yes, I am an audiophile. I care about how my records are reproduced. I've dished out a serious amount of money for my current equipment. But guess what, I cared about reproduction of records long before I could afford to spend money on this.
One reason we all used to engage with music so much more is because we weren't trying to be so aloof and objective. We didn't have a bunch of physics guys always telling us that what we're hearing isn't real unless we measure it first to make sure.
I've listened to gene / audioholics for years now and have always enjoyed their videos. When it comes to things like cables & bitrates, I'm definitely more on the objective side of the fence. I don't believe cables make a difference. However, I'm open to the possibility that there may be a difference that our current technology simply can't measure. A favourite quote of mine is this:
"Not everything that matters can be measured, and not everything that can be measured necessarily matters." I'm not attracted to the idea that there's nothing beyond what we can measure. Some are, & I think this is where the divide begins.
I think gene's ivory tower reference of the subjectivist audiophiles isn't particularly charitable. Alot of the audiophiles I listen to, while def on the subjective side, aren't remotely like this, & don't believe that you need to drop $10K on an audio setup for great sound. Interestingly, I think that the ivory tower description is far more fitting for the objectivists - you only need to read some of the disagreements online to see this. I do agree with gene about the high end audio business. There's nothing I find more frustrating than when I watch an audio product reviewed, only to discover at the end of the review that it costs double to 3 times my entire setup, not to mention companies that sell their cables for thousands of dollars. I'll never spend that kind of money on cables.
I think Schiit Audio is a great example. Love these guys & their attitude towards the industry. They want to get more people into audio, & have made every effort to make good, cheap audio accessible to the general population. I'm not a fan of audio snobbery, & hope to see it die. My system cost me $3.5K total - Topping D50s DAC, Burson Funk amp, & KEF LS50 Metas. This is a desktop setup, & sounds phenomenal.
pro tip: mark the edges of your CDs with a green magic marker for an instant upgrade!
Audiophile for me is Analog, Transparent, Lowest Distortions, 2nd Order Harmonics, Large Heatsinks, Medium Power and Heavy Duty.
To me the word audiophile is a person that wants to get the very best out of the music that they love by understanding the room and system that they have.
we all love messing about with our music rooms. i polish my appliances and speakers at least once a week. if thats not being addictive to my music toys i dont know what is. im also a guy who likes to see all the cables as tidy as can be, all my appliances squared up with the hifi unit they all stand on. i listen nearly every night for around an hour minimum , go on you tube every night to listen to this place plus at least another 5 channels to see what the latest hifi news is.or what i can learn from Gene and the other guys.. im always saving up for the next new purchase and love surfing the net for new reviews on just about anything to do with our past time. so as you can see if im not an audiophile ,ive no idea what one is...
Hey Gene, idk if it’s your thing but the newest Evanescence sounds good upmixed with DSU (center spread on of course) she’s got some live concert videos. Makes for a good experience.
I'm an audiophile! 11.2 system, each set of speakers was given to me except my 4 ceiling speakers and 2 subs. I've not lost sight of the connection with those people and the connection to the music being one in the same-- it gives me a deeper sense of meaning to the gift of life.
Do you have a video about measuring and adjusting your room acoustics? I've measured speakers before, but I feel as though measuring your room is a completely different process.
Are you holding a Kanto YU6 speaker? I have them and i think they sound great with 8" sub
Online music has destroyed the LP. In fact, I bought a friend's a CD of "The Who's" greatest hits. He only listened to one song on it -- never tried the others.
I do not think online has destroyed music. It is really is no different from listening to the radio. I am afraid the music industry as a whole has been in decline and is rock bottom. They simply are not productive and modern pop music is not even music.
People simply are not willing to pay for all that trash you will find that people still go out of their way to pay for older music though. My son recently went out and bought a series of older pop music but would never do the same for modern pop.
I’m with you 100%, When I first heard people framing Audiophile as synonymous with high faluting pseudoscience, I shrugged that bullshjt right off. I never ceded the term to begin with. People are so tribalistic, and wrapped up in whats called a “false consensus” which is where people assume their community has a unified and shared sense of values, when in reality the community is extremely diverse. It can lead people to try to oust someone they disagree with, seeing them as an interloper that the whole community must also collectively disagrees with. But it’s actually just them. You can even have factions believing that an ideology is unnatural to the community, trying to purge and cleanse the community of all those who bring the taint. “False consensus” causes tons of group frictions and power struggles, once you see it, those problems begin to unravel and are allot easier to mediate. Theynembolden people to engage in righteous conflict, which creates huge rifts, and it’s all just perception and projection.
We fool ourselves thinking people who share hobbies are like minded, which is a deep insight for those looking to find like minded friends, often they won’t even share interests with you. It’s more a style of thinking, or the energy that lives in their heart. Dating apps connecting people based on their interests are missing that chemistry entirely. Some hobbies thatnhave a strong ethics or values component can get people closer to like minded people, but even there people can reach the same ethical conclusions from different avenues. Like someone motivated by spite, and another by altruism, but they both on paper share the same beliefs. I feel the style, and the energy of our heart is where true chemistry lies, and they sometimes even reach different conclusions, so you have to look across the isle to find them.
Just because you’re all kayakers doesn’t mean you have the same feelings towards motorcraft. I love motorboat, and I love audio, and in my book that’s enough to be an audiophile. Anyone that tries to tell you what you can and cannot love, or limit what culture or community is beating in your heart, can F-k right off. One person’s definitions are no more valid than anyone else’s.
I am not an audiophile! I just love to listen to music..it was passed to me by my father! It’s a good hobby!
Music and audiophile is two different things.
I've got a pair of intimidation studio s3000 floor standers........ Fairly cheap speakers, however I always thought they sounded shallow and needed loudness turned on to get a good bass from them don't even consider source direct and that is with 10awg ofc from amp to speaker.
So I opened them up and what did I find? 18awg wire going from the crossover to the first 10" then onto the second 10" so I wired both direct to the crossover with 12awg wire and..... Boom what a difference also this dropped the overall impedance from 6 ohm's to 4 ohm's
Now the bass is deep and rich. Source direct sounds best.
I know they aren't exactly audiophile grade speakers actually far from it but they do me fine.
Couldn't believe that they would fit such crappy wires internally adding 2 ohm's impedance.
Haven't changed anything else only the internal wire.
PS I'm an audio enthusiast.
Everyone who loves music can gain perspective by implementing some Basic laws of equipment and practice one main problem i see in this forum There is some Audio Quackery if thats even a term
So, is BOSE speakers audiophile or the Wave Radio? Does listening to my 8-track make me a non-audiophile because the gear is not considered universally great? And yes, I use cryo firehose power cables and cable lifters to lift the veil and bring out the caramel highs and decadent chocolate mids in my 8-track
Here’s a little poem…
I’m little I’m proud I learn I know I know some I know not I’m little I’m proud I’m an audiophile
I agree Gene 100%. Members of the Church of Analog are now freaking out upon discovering that the evil digital has been present in their reference" hitherto analog" Mofi records. That might mean that analog is not better afterall, which would mean that they are not superior to knuckle-dragging digital listeners.
There argument maybe that the presence of digital does not overwhelm the analog musical experience.
Such as a wonderful singer, musical instruments and maybe some digital instrument being part of the process.
i like music, and like listening to it on systems that can give justice to it by providing a naturaly plausible interpretation of the recorded thing. i like to tinker on my stuff to make it able to do that on sound in general, as i don't want to be genre or context limited. does that make me an audiophile?
i work with a tiny budget (student) and use hand me downs, sales and diy work. all active components. and my computer as a dac. does that disqualify me?
on my computer i work with (free) audio restauration programms that guess missing sounds in lossy formats, as a sizable lossless library would cut into my budget too much and some artists i listen to don't provide lossless. does that diqualify me?
i can distinguish 320kbps from lossless with a high accuracy on test, but with the restauration i can't tell which is which, although it sound different. does that requalify me?
i think music in its natural form is different in any place and any position. with live being played different every time. so having a perfect system or listening to "the one perfect version" is not doable. thats why i think plausible naturality, in all aspects of sound (relevant audibly interacting frequency range, dynamics, frequency accuracy, transients, harmonics, stability, frequency power, etc. ) is more desireable and gives a wider range of interpretative but guiderailed liberty.
working towards that to ones best ability to get the most out of a sonic experience that way is what i consider to be audiophile. that can be done at every budget. its a philosophy
@Douglas Blake the snipe hunt is why i go for "plausible interpretation" as a goal. music is always interpretation.
i selected my computers motherboard (asus prime x470 pro) specificaly because its sound chip has a seperate power line, is isolated on the board, has EM shielding, yamaha capacitors, decent size mosfets and is a dual chip for seperated stereo channel calculation. by far the most expensive part of my system.
my sound system is a frankensteinian active speaker stereo wall of sound, hooked together from cheap or second hand stuff. for example: using some rewired cheap squeaky pc speakers as treble horns, rewired boomy 90's pc speakers as mid bass horns, a harsh jvc compact stereo to supply the transients the other parts lack, as well as a mission as70 100 watt stereo subwoofer saved from being thrown away. a sharp wq-t352h and set of creative t20 sII speakers can be hooked up to that abomination in phase and placement correct (took a lot of fine tuning) ways too. total cost 95€. i have surprised a few people with it, as it can hold up with systems more than 10 times its price.
for my audio library i rely on 320kbps mp3. i use winamp with the madlib codec and thimeo stereotool dsp as a player. for output i use direct sound, as my soundchip has a bitperfect hardware solution for that which outclasses the wasapi software solution in performance.
i use the stereotool dsp for real time audio restoration: stereo widening, harmonic bass synthesis (with a soft clipper to keep it in check), harmonic trebble extrapolation (up to 24 khz), multiband compressor based algorythmic transient increase and a negative output gain to prevent clipping.
the result is a music theory compliant plausible filling of mp3 spectral holes, reduced ringing, as well restored sound stage and dynamics. i think this approach has its merrits.
@Douglas Blake too much information from my side. sorry for that.
the core thing is just that with tinkering and searching you can get surprisingly good sound out of low price components, and that plausibly natural interpretation is a part of any sound reproduction automaticaly, so that deliberate aspects like restoration aren't realy worse if the bring it closer to that goal.
@Douglas Blakecriticising wall of repaired/reused trash approaches makes absolute sense. there is a slim chance for it to sound anything but horrible or just burst into flames. i only use it as i could not resonably afford the components when brand new or in ready made packages, while being resonably good at diy and having good ears to tune that mutation of a stereo system.
it certainly is not a top system, thats sure in any case. i've heared infinetly better systems.
but i've also heared more expensive systems that sounded worse. for 95€ it does a very good job though, but thats a competition with other cheap speakers. the edifier r1280, creative t40, or bose companion 2 play in that price range and are good, but my system outclasses them.
it beats my fathers setup (telefunken tlx 22/4 proffesional, quadral sub45mk2 active, sony ta-ax4, line 6 ux2 ) by a tiny amount (we both and a few other agree on that, though he resonably dislikes the frankenstein approach). anything better should leave it in the dust.
so it actualy enters the realm of hifi, but only just. good for low budget builders or as a weird art piece, but not recommended for anything else.
i thouroughly enjoy the audiophile approach to sound though, as it helps to get the best out of what i got (so far) .
@Douglas Blake acoustic/electronical engineering approach could be a better word than audiophile, though the goal is the same.
soundbars are often sub par for their price. showing how its done makes sense.
from what i read online, edifier r1280t's outclass dayton b352 + amps. they are active components though of course.
my system is definetly luck based. i started by hooking two old basement find speaker sets from my dad together. one sounded like a bathtub, the other like a tin can. together they were surprisingly fine. i then added and fine tuned from there. and it somehow worked towards a better-than-its-sum-of-parts sound. using active components, with most having tonal controls, made the setup feasable. that first coincidence started me on the path of optimizing my listening experience.
skeptical friends liked it after listening too, with one asking me to build them the same system (with which they are happy now) and another one asking me to help set up their 5.1 system correctly.
@Douglas Blake i have no interest in spending money in physical impossibilities.
what i am doing with my current setup is not a fully thorough scientific approach, its backyard science at best. knowing the rough physics, what zo listen for, and how to interprete and act upon the results. good enough for ehat it is, as thourough measurement and indept calculation would be lost with my cheap but overly complex setup.
so i do things like speaker setup, speaker feet cushioning, rearange curtains for room dampening, keep track of proper wiring and so on. physicaly explainable things that can be easily applied with some measuring tape and a good ear.
It took five years of patience to get my first real system. Thing about working in the biz as opposed to just being a consumer opened my eyes. What made the basement so good was the acoustics and great gear didn’t hurt. NAD, Thorens, Spectral, ASC, Merrill Heirloom. There were more lines. Being a part of making someone happy to play their music on their gear and grinning the whole time. Spending time setting gear up at residences was fun also. Listening sessions were eating, drinking and most importantly listening to great music with friends. That’s good stuff! Cheers all!
I was born in the early 1960s and audiophile definition has changed over the years. The audiophiles of the 1960s was Reel to Reel and beautiful systems. The 1970s was almost the same but more Vynal instead of tape. However my first rememberable sound system was in the late 70s with Radio Shacks Mach Speakers, this guy had 4 of them each with 15" drivers. He played a Vynal of 2001 A Space Adyssy. The pipe organs blew me away. Later in the early 1980s the audiophiles were not into "Crank It Up, Piss off all your neighborhood and everyone living in building too. No instead the volume was maybe only 70Ibs. just slightly louder than average talking level. The the 1990s happened and everything was about defining volume and over blown sub bass. The early 2000s happened and still way too loud and too much bass. Now in the 2022 area the trend seems to be super Flat with almost no Bass or high frequencies. While still loud. The best music is at reasonable level that doesn't make your ears ring for three days after. A good volume around 70 db will save your hearing and not piss off the neighborhood. Sounds Better Too.
2:58 Vinyl is also hard to ruin the master when recording on media. Many modern recordings on CD have levels maxed out or have huge bass boosts. These are often absent in the same album's vinyl counterpart. I would much rather have some popping and distortion than having my ears bleed from crappy mixing.
I get sick of people automatically saying a product has better resolution just because its more expensive when we know thats false and BS based on research. I have tried many high end headphones and come away disappointed because they just had awful tuning and sounded like they measured. Theres no point in exotic materials if you cant get basic tuning correct. Recently i settled on the Moondrop Venus a planar headphone tuned somewhat similar to a HD600 which means its flat maybe very slightly sibilant but the extension in bass doesn't roll off till under 30hz and its very gradual below that too. This is a Chinese company so naturally the price is lower but i think they give Audeze and hifimans a run for there money.
All this time I would describe myself as an audiophile wanta be. Well hell fire......... I am one !
I don't like or use the term. I do like to have a 'good' (perceived sound system) that let's me hear everything on a recording, discrete or otherwise. The one thing that it seems is never talked about is the actual recorded sound and mixing of the recordings, it's all about the reproduction on through your system. Bad recordings will sound bad so matter what kind of system you have and now more frequently because of financing issues more music is recorded live and patched with studio reproduction and mixed with mixed results, ditto remastering of older recordings. There are people, a friend comes to mine, who while not exactly verbalizing it look down on products like Marantz, Denon, Emotiva, because they are considered cheap (anything under $2000.00) and for the masses and that goes for speakers also. So if I were to use the term 'Audiophile' for me it would mean someone who enjoys the experience of listening to music, what it is played on while important is peripheral to the experience. BTW for full disclosure I have spent thousands of dollars on receivers, speakers DVD and CD players seeking listening perfection based on reviews of specs, room correction software, you name it.
I never liked the term "audiophile". Besides sharing a syllable with pedophile, I find it pretentious. I refer to myself as an audio enthusiast. Besides I think in order to be considered a audiophile, you have to hear the difference mpingo discs make in your system and I can't. I guess, at best, I'm a sub-audiophile. ;)
totally agree with you about audiophile term! thank you for your video!👍
I really enjoy atmos/spatial audio on an atmos system
F'in Eh ! Mean Gene. Love this Video. Prog Rock & Room Treatment FOREVER Bro !!!!
I like the definition of Audiophile by Merriam Webster and to some degree, Wikipedia. And I'm OK with the term "audiophile" and don't mind being referred to as one. I especially like the concept of listening with one's ears rather than "listening" by using measurements. In my world, being an audiophile simply means that you prefer listening to anything that produces a quality listening experience that is generally only capable by audio equipment that is regarded as "above-average". It does not have to be a mega $$ system. But, it is generally NOT sound produced out of a phone, tablet, OEM car speaker, bluetooth speaker, etc. They key to audiophile sound reproduction is the conversion of electrical signals using a speaker to create acoustical signal energy. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of high quality speakers. And those speakers have to be driven by "quality electronics." And of course, the source material is critically important to the faithful reproduction of high quality sound. All that being said, when the arguments regress to "gear and equipment" among audiophiles - that's where I draw the line. I have several "systems" and all of them are "decent" (audiophile worthy - albeit not necessarily super expensive). My main system is expensive, yes - but not outrageous like an overzealous audiophile would insist upon. Again, that's where I drawn the line. In closing, it's all about the music. And the music matters - right? So, for me, as I engage in the listening experience, I prefer that the sound quality be above-average, at a minimum. If that makes me an audiophile, so be it.
to me the definition of an audiophile is simply someone who cares about the sound quality when listening to music. Inside this broad definition is a whole spectrum of degrees of being an audiophile which is what people argue about.
It’s funny being a musician and an audiophile seeing that definition
Was that a Kanto in the thumbnail? When are we getting that review?
Yes
I don't know if I am one but I love music & I hate to hear it sound bad
Hello from Montreal, I think the definition should be as simple as possible because as long there is enthusiasm, care and passion for the hobby without specifics to gear etc. then you are a audiophile. You could compare it to sports, you could be a hockey fan and it doesn’t mean you need to have season tickets to your favourite team. You could love watching minor hockey. I’ve always had a music playback system since my teens and it’s now evolved to separates with both analog and digital sources. We should not judge the extreme s from the kid starting out to the guy with the income and the people who like to tweak. The internet has inotated us with information positive and negative and that includes the audio hobby. As long as we know this we can move on and enjoy our hobby.
I am and as always Gene good explanation from an engineer point of view. I however have pro audio equipment and don’t use overpriced and overrated home audio equipment.
How about movie and audio enthusiast lol? I need to get a mic and REW software to take my game to the next level.
I don't watch this channel enough. I think anyone can really consider them self an audiophile. I find the analog vs digital debate interesting. Most I know prefer vinyl but I prefer digital. I also noticed when listening to a dvd or blu-ray, the 5.1 sounds more clear to me compared to the 2.0 stereo on cd. At least to me it sounds better.
As you know, every technical term is a term of art. The term audiophile works differently in different contexts for different purposes. The fact that you’re trying to pin it down, is interesting. But you must admit that the term can be as variable as the term foodie.
@Douglas Blake That's fair enough
Yeah! People used to sit down and listen to an album like you’d sit down and watch a movie. Now it’s just part of the multitasking milieu.
I thought an audiophile was something like an mp3 song on your fone.
If an audiophile loses their hearing are they still an audiophile?
Considering a vinyl pressing is made from a reel to reel master tape or digital recordings these days and the grooves cant be cut as deep or wide as those formats can actually record and reproduce should tell you all you need. With that being said. Yes vinyl is cool and has probably the biggest catalog of music out there but yes it is a very flawed format and uses it's own kind of compression techniques and calling it truly analog is kind of silly too.
vinyls flaws have an interesting effect: its distortions are harmonic, meaning they sound like a plausible natural musical aspect, not like a disharmonic noise, when added to the specific recording. every natural place sounds different, and vinyl sounds like a plausible natural thing.
the smoothing of peaks and compression in vinyl in its analog form makes things sound more like a natural performance in a small room (live music played softer to be lidtenable in it): the minimum volume an instrument/a voice is set, but the loudest things are room instead of concert level, so there is less dynamics. and more quite play means also softer play. so vinyl sounds more room-concert like.
this makes vinyl sound "flawless", as its flaws sound like natural music to us.
Sadly many RUclips reviewers are classifying an audiophile as snobs.
Maybe my definition differs, but I've considered an audiophile as an individual looking for sound reproduction that delivers the source material as neutral without coloration as possible. That's dependent on multiple sources, but speakers in my years as an audiophile add the most coloration to the signal source.
@Douglas Blake I don't think taking pride in an expensive system is wrong, but I understand " the laws of diminishing returns" and agree that after a certain price point, what are you getting that's significantly or appreciably justifies the extra money.
But I never begrudged someone ( and I have a friend that has a KEF R11 front speakers, Technics amp replacing Luxman - all big dollar items ) and the sound is like nothing I've ever heard - and I have decent equipment myself.
@Douglas Blake If I had that much disposable income at my fingers, I'm sure I would build a system out like that - but most of us don't. We're" affordable audiophiles" - my receiver and speakers cost me about $1800.00 - my sub another $550.00. And the sound is great - to me - and that's what truly counts in the end. But I sure could hear the difference between my friends KEF R11's and my speakers - no question about it. The nuances you can hear from his turntable with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge ( around $1000.00 ) and the previous Audio Technica one he was using is quite startling.
All I'm saying is there are sonic differences you can disseminate - it's up to the individual to decide if he not only has the coin, but is his investment that much more substantial.
@Douglas Blake All a matter of perspective. Have a great night!
I think an 'audiophile' is someone who cares about audio quality and take the time to get the most out of whatever audio equipment they own. It doesn't need to be "high end" gear, in fact I think some esoteric gear is not aimed at audiophiles at all but just at people who have enough money to brag that they own the worlds most expensive speakers, etc.
It is about getting the best out of the listening experience through equipment.
Cambridge sure is insisting inferior formats are "audiophile" formats...
Great stuff as always Gene! Thanks for the post.
Tool is a modern band making a listener experience like Pink Floyd used to do.
He actually uses time domain measurements!
I like Audiohead better. Audiophile suggests too much addiction.
Hmm. Methhead vs methphile :)
Yep, i'm an audiophile. I want that band or performance outside the speakers and in my room.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😇😇😇😇😇
Jean, I think you nailed it. We are all enthusiasts who are in the search for good quality and an enjoyable experience. I have loved listening to tidal music through my Atmos system. It's really an enjoyable experience that I highly recommend.