This is such a good episode. I can’t stop laughing while Mac just softly talks to herself…’I love mowing lawns, I love chopping wood’…while Ashley yells HEAVEN FORBID I WANT A GLASS OF MILK. 😂😂😂
In India there is a certain restaurant that has a perpetual stew constantly going, they just add more as they hand it out to people and keep stirring, stirring the perpetual stew! Thank you guys for another charming episode! 😊❤
Lol, came here to also comment that permasoup is absolutely a thing, but that it is more commonly referred to as perpetual stew en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_stew One downside that I couldn't find references to is that in the middle ages, when this was a more common practice, the perpetual stew could harbor strains of micro organisms that locals would develop immunity to, but that would be potentially fatal to outsiders.
Alayna saying "I miss c_vid" resonates so much for me. March-June of 2020 is the last time I felt happy and content for any length of time. There have been moments since then but not a solid stretch. My wife and I were on lock down, we were approved for unemployment, and spent the day fixing our house, putting up fences, teaching her how to cook, scrap booking and walking our dog and goats. It was so peaceful and I have felt so guilty for enjoying that time while so many people were suffering and dying.
the more i think and listen and complain to myself about not having community and events and “third” spaces, the more i realize i could probably start something and make the change myself. it’s seems so daunting to put yourself out there like that, but maybe something i should consider to meet more people and make community.
@@Raddiebaddieand it can be about anything at all! More specific, you get a little group of adorable nerds. More generalized, you get a bigger pool in which to find kindreds
If there’s no community around you, making it is the best option - sometimes there’s so many people who feel the same way as you and need an opportunity to get involved. You could be the opportunity!
it can feel daunting but you totally could do it! I recently started hosting small outdoor community events based on my own interests and community interests (pride party, crafting events, halloween gathering, etc) and it’s been really lovely! the hosting aspect can be stressful sometimes, but if you build community/have friends willing to help it makes it a lot easier. And at the end of the day the most important part is simply the space to be, something as simple as a picnic at a park can create an environment to build community and share space 💚
To add to the convo about popping in on friends and community, I grew up on a family farm with like, 5 seperate households, all on 88 acres. The thing I think folks miss and that I hear anxiety about is boundaries and practices, which my response is that as a community, you wind up with a set of norms and expectations! You don't have to answer every time someone knocks, and beyond that, when you knock there's an understanding that you might get an empty house, or a busy person! And I think folks worry about getting interrupted, but I was just as likely knocking to offer help as I was to ask for it. Also mealtimes are generally a no-go, if you caught someone eating you'd make it quick or leave it for later
I love taking people to the airport. I’m an hour from SFO. That drive before someone leaves is always some of the most precious time because their minds are in a different version of themselves as they prep for transition. Highly recommend offering airport rides.
To Ashley’s comment saying gen-z understands there’s something wrong but not what/why, as a gen-zer I think a lot of us do understand that phones and being online are the main problems but we don’t know how to change it since it’s just part of life for us since we can remember, like there is no other option than being online. and what you guys are describing, I would loveeee to live like that, but I honestly don’t think that would be possible anymore. to some extent maybe, but social media and the internet will always be part of that for most of us, so we have to find a way where we can do that in a more healthy way that is actually realistic and I think that’s a very tough question, that’s how I see it at least
this episode blew my mind as an irish person. here the majority of schools have phones banned completely, both during class and during lunch, and if you're caught with it you'd get it taken off you and most likely, you'd be sent to detention. i had no idea kids were allowed on their phones DURING LUNCH in other countries 😭 i'm so glad that wasn't the case for me 🙏
Schools in a lot of places in Europe are turning towards banning phones. The Netherlands even have a nationwide ban on smartphones and watches in school and Flanders is looking to do the same.
I'm a Gen Zer who very much grew up with and lives in dropping by-culture. My parents' door is always open and people do show up and come in and drink a tea and they are always invited. Same for my grandparents. People will just show up, multiple times a day. I also get Alayna's point though about having to be a host constantly and that mental energy. Hearing someone at the door and deciding you're not available and ignoring them is a bad feeling. And of course there are people who are great at this and listen to you and remove barriers and bring their own food or tell you to sit down while they make the tea if you aren't feeling like it because they just want to spend time with you, but I feel that's not what dropping in usually is, unless you are going through something and people are coming to check in. Anyway, because this environment for me - where people live in houses instead of apartments and communities are small and local - is the countryside, it means we rely even more on smartphones and digital services, so I really don't see them being the antithesis to all this. The same goes for the demand to always be available: Yes, it comes from the phones, but it also happens in small communities.
That's a very insightful take. I'd add that in my neighborhood we often text first to ask if it's a good time to pop round, that way there's less pressure to answer than a knock at the door if people aren't available
I will say my 9 year old goes outside and plays around the apartment complex, a lot of his friends do too. They ride scooters and bikes, play football and soccer and basketball. So I don't think it's completely lost to children. But as we age we become more isolated.
Mak I'm right there with you with how good it feels to have someone come watch you play sports. I was lucky enough that my parents were the "never miss a game" type, and I took it for granted at the time, but I look back and I'm like WOW what a privelege. I honestly think it's one of my love languages now, lol. When someone wants to come watch me play sports it's so flattering. And if I want to come watch YOU play sports, that is my way of telling you I like you/ I care about you. I dated someone who didn't want me to come to her basketball games, she said it was her thing that she wanted to keep to herself and I was like ok, I respect that as your need, but it honestly kind of gave me the ick a little bit? Which might be a little bit dramatic, hahahaha, but all that is to say - I GET IT! I love sports watching as a way of showing you care!
Firstly I want to say thanks for a great episode. A lot of really great points made. I'm 18 and I got my first phone 4 years ago at 14. The main reason being that during lockdown in 2020 I was messaging my friends for the first time because we were all accessing our school laptops at home and I wanted to keep being able to talk to them over the summer holidays. I was one of the last people in my year group to get a phone and I am so, so grateful to my parents for that. I've been thinking a lot recently about how bad everyone seems to be doing. Have to say I'm pretty terrified for my generation. Somehow we've really screwed up our society and it doesn't seem to suit anyone anymore. I think it's also scary how, as you were saying, it's getting so hard for parents to do the 'right' thing and give their kids a normal upbringing.
I’m a public school (high school English) teacher here in Western Australia where we have a state-wide phone ban in our public schools. I absolutely LOVE this rule for our young people!
This was an episode and a half! So much covered. Heavy, real issues. Boy, it's hard to feel normal living in today's world. The world today seems so intimidating, isolating, fragile and corrupting. And yes, the idea of joining a commune, or moving into a small town or apartment building filled friends and friends of friends sounds more and more desirable. The ideas of 'Neighbourhood' and 'community' discussed are nostalgic even for myself as a 27yr old.
I just graduated high school this past May, and yes, it was weird being in school in the era of phone addiction. Teachers constantly having to stop class to tell everyone to get off their phones, sooo many people sitting by themselves at lunch because they just wanted to watch Netflix/RUclips/TikTok and eat. Obviously it makes it hard to be social when you're sucked into your phone all the time, but it also affects people who ARE social: You don't want to go up to someone or make small talk with someone who has Airpods in and is scrolling on their phone. And if you do it anyway, they'll give you dirty looks or be very obviously uninterested in the conversation (because all they want is to get back to scrolling). It made high school really lonely, and sad. And even now that I'm in college, it's not really any different.
The technological and social mixing for children is a fine line to balance. In our house we have very strict rules on time-management and screens and I have always put a great emphasis on being outdoors, doing sports, creativity and staying curious about the world around you. It is a law here in the Netherlands that phones are banned at school now. They are put in a safe in the classroom at the beginning off schooltime and then they get them back at the end of school.
Ashley, you would love the book “The Anxious Generation” by Johnathan Haidt (if you haven’t already read it). Highly recommend it to anyone wanting to learn more about how cellphones impact childhood and also some solutions for the future. The book sounds almost exactly like what you were saying about phones/parenting/mental health/childhood etc. The entire first section of the book is just graphs on trends in mental health between 2010-2015, with phones becoming commonplace around 2013. The data is there! Great episode :)
I'm an identical twin. I'm gay as hell, but my sister isn't. People call us wombmates all the time. It's kind of cringe but accurate? My sister would never live on a commune. For the record, I would live anywhere with a group of lesbians.
One of the problems with parenting and kids is its always been very hard to mange your life while you have kids. Going to the loo, having a shower, tidying your house. You're exhausted and the ability to distract your kids for a moments peace. Certainly some of that is the loss of wider support networks. But its always been hard.
Alana can you talk more about the reparenting and fulfilling a childhood need and how that works and what to do and all that? I’m sure others as well as my self would find it very helpful.
As an elder gen-z, I relate a lot to Mak with the playing outside and friends thing. Myself and most of my friends got phones (not smart phones) around middle school, and then got smart phones in high school. Also iPod touches were a big thing lol. And also - as a former preschool teacher who worked in schools before and after the pandemic, those kids are just different. Especially the ones born in 2019-2020. A lot of them didn’t get a ton of socialization and also didn’t see many faces other than those of their family because of quarantine and masks. In my experience, they are much more attached to their parents, have more trouble sharing, and generally participate less in interactive play. I stopped a few years ago so I never got to see those kids grow up more. So I’m not sure how they are now, but it was obvious that they were different. And on a last note, luckily the school I worked at had a no screen policy. We were outside a LOT. They did really well in that environment. But you could tell which ones were getting screen time at home and even which ones picked up on their parents screen time. I’m curious how they will be as they get older.
So TW for discussions about suicide but I'm pretty sure the third thing that Alayna talks about isn't accès but "acquired capability" (in a paper "reductions in fear and pain sensitivity sufficient to overcome self preservation reflexes"). This would include things like familiarity and practice with the things that are used for suicide, and might be one of the reasons why men have higher rates of suicide deaths (familiarity with firearms, but also with violence, social conditioning to disregard body integrity, etc). This is also used as an explanation of why second attempts more often result in death, there's this "practice" effect. I wasn't taught this in grad school a few years ago, its interesting to see it's being taught now!
honestly so glad that ashley sound like an "old man" sometimes because she's not wrong! There are many modern problems with technology and we'd be ridiculous not to acknowledge them. It was always weird to me that little 2 year olds get i pads when i had to wait till i was in 8th grade till I even had a flip phone. When I was really little, my older brother had gone through numerous phones, so I know they were readily available back then. and I feel like I understand a bit of what ashley was saying about reactivity. Ever since I've become more fixed to my phone and laptop, there are less opportunities to sit and do nothing, like I had when I was little. And it ties in with what a lot of older adults ARE saying about phones, and sitting in silence, we just need to listen to them more.
im a 1998 kid, my childhood is a mixture, id play outside w my neighbors and cousins, then go home at night to play computer games online - i like the best of both worlds - im also an artsy kid so despite the computer and phone, i chose to make art, just depends on the childs personality, i think kids today still play outside, theyre just also more online bc of easy tech access so older gens think thats all they do, its not lmao
i've finally gotten myself to the point where my phone is boring, like sometimes i pick up my phone out of boredom and i can't find anything worth my time to do on it. it's great tbh.
I have my phone on silent at all times, mostly because I hate the sound of notifications, but a nice side effect is that I'm not on my phone all the time checking messages/pings and I am not available 24/7 to people. I got an iPod Touch when I was 12 (iPhone at 15 when I started public school) and I remember 12 year old me noticing I had the instinct to instantly check my phone anytime it buzzed or binged and making the conscious choice to turn off the ringer. And it has been like that since. I told my (literal boomer. Like, early 1950's babies) parents recently that I never had my ringer on and I was shocked that THEY were incredulous and being like "What if I have an emergency? I can't contact you??" like 1) we live 10 hours away from each other. I can't provide immediate assistance anyway, and 2) you lived without cell phones until your 50s! And didn't get smart phones until your 60s! You of all people should be used to the idea that you couldn't have 24/7 access to people!
Appreciate all the discussions about community, communes and how phones and screens impact us. I think there is a trend of swinging back towards being in community after the COVID years and people being tired of disconnection in general. I have faith that gen Z and Gen Alpha will be just fine.
As someone who has issues focusing on stuff, I can't believe I made it 24 minutes into this without needing to go off to something else lol Definitely gonna sub and come back to this later!
Loved the discussion about the depressed kiddos!! I’m a crisis therapist for suicidal children and their families, so always love when these things are being talked about! Also relate to Mak being on the tail end of gen z, so I was def outside in the trees lol might be a mid west thing too! Appreciate you guys, always fun to listen ❤️
The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt covers a lot of things Ashley says or touches on re: phones. It's not a perfect book, but it's pretty good and is a huge part of why so many schools right now are banning cell phones in schools. We're at a critical tipping point re: phones; more and more people understand how much harm this has done and are working to course correct. EDIT TO ADD: Ashley, there ARE parents out there already who are working to prevent the harm of phones with their kids. Also there are ways to stepping stone this. Buy a double digit years kid a dumb phone for emergencies, something that can only do calls and text.
I just got out of therapy so hearing Mak talk about these re-parenting herself 😭 Thank you so much for sharing these moments, Mak ❤️ I am so glad that your girlfriend was there for you and takes interest in your new hobbies!!
I would like to say as a Gen Z (first year, so the older part of Gen Z) we STILL spent tons of our time outside and played with people maybe to the age of like 16? HOWEVER.. Gen Alpha, which is 13-14 now (the oldest ones) genuinely have not had the middle ground experience we did. Their world is actually for the most part screen based. And to me, it’s honestly genuinely quite wild. Because you are right, the kids are pretty confused and it seems like they know something is up, just not *what*. My experience may be a bit different because I live in the U.K. though and all our houses and areas are a lot closer together? I would say around 5-6 years ago we’ve noticed playgrounds aren’t crowded by kids anymore. 5-6 years ago you still found tons of kids at playgrounds laughing and running around and having fun in my location, but in the recent years it really dwindled (covid may be part of it) - this year my friend and I (she has a little one) noticed just how deserted things have become, ESPECIALLY in summer holidays, which was very, very weird to us. But I guess most kids now spend time indoors on games instead of outside playing. But for us it was bizarre as we grew up with the “come home when the street lights come on” or “come home when I call you on your crappy little phone that can only make phone calls and play music which you recorded via the speaker” 🤣 Truly though, it’s super strange these days. It all feels so off.
Downside is banning phones in schools is that responsibility falls on the teachers and administrators. My husband has his masters degree and from 6:30 in the morning to 5:30pm he takes away cell phones and then does his actual job from 5:30-8:30. He is a high school administrator. 9th - 12th grade. Schools are being seen as nothing more than free baby sitting.
I am a parent of teens, and I specifically only expect to be able to contact them around when we have an agreed pick up time. I want them to have the freedom to plan for themselves.
I cant believe mak started talking about agatha all along and they never came back to it 😭 i feel robbed but in all seriousness, this was such a good episode!!
As of this fall B.C., Alberta, Ontario, Nova Scotia, Quebec and New Brunswick all have various bans on cell phone use during K-12 school hours. -- They should bring the flip phone back for kids. Parents could stay in touch, but there would be nothing on them to tempt kids to always play on them. And because there will always be some parent who wants to give their kid a smartphone, the government should simply ban smartphones for kids under a certain age like they already ban kids from things like buying cigarettes, driving a car, or drinking alcohol -- It sounds like you just want to live in a really small town. Which sounds good, but being human, we would also want the conveniences of a city. Maybe we should divide cities into a whole bunch of small towns connected together.
Mak's flag football update... talking about how her parents were always busy... would also be the perfect segway into introducing the podcast... right Mum... i mean Alayna?
My mom and aunt are mirror image twins! Not all identical twins are mirror image. Mirror image happens when the egg splits even later than just identical twins. Hence, the mirror image!
I got my first phone as an off to college present in 2004, I was 17. First smart phone wasn't until 2012/13. My kids don't have phones or tablets and only watch TV on good behavior days for 1 hour while I make dinner. Except Wednesday, my wife's day off, where if they had a good day we all watch a whole movie together.
Omg doesn't Alayna live in Vancouver?? Skytrain is so cool and accessible! If I lived in a city with that amazing of a transit system, I'd be using it to go see friends ALL THE TIME!
Yes, I saw squirrels like that😊 🥰I love hearing Mak talking about her gf coming to support her in sports. That's the kind of partner i want to be...if i ever find my person. 🤣Mak's segway to Patreon. So true about not owning a car in the city! The brief time I lived in one, a bus stop was literally right outside my door, train was a couple blocks away, and so much was accessible by foot. My child is an adult now, but he was only allowed a prepaid flip phone when he was at an age when it was more for safety and being able to reach me. When he started working, he got an iPhone with his own money, paid for his own service. I didn't like it, but he went out and got it. For the money he spent, felt I couldn't take it away. I agree about the socialization. I was so happy when he wanted to go to rock night at the ice skating rink, I told him that's real socialization.
I am constantly glued to my phone or a computer when I'm along and have thought a lot about how to fix that. It's a mix of adhd and being a sad little mope all the time that makes me crave constant distraction 😅 maybe that's the thing I should focus on to make me feel better. I do have outside hobbies, like swimming, dog training and when I go see friends, we barely touch our phones.
Loved this episode! I'm currently reading a book called 'The anxious generation" by Jonathan Haidt, which delves into all those things you're talking about : kids needs not being met in the digital age, the connection with mental health issues rising up etc. Really great book if you are into these topics!
Yes to the artist-commune Ashley…I *wish* I could laugh about all your day-to-day jokes and puns…I would need to bring loads of pants to live there, cause I would constantly p*ss my pants laughing so hard 😂😂
Down in Australia, I'm not too certain of the other states, but NSW has bans on phones in schools, it's been implemented literally in the past two years or so, but as a Stage 6 (Yr 11 & 12) student, I really noticed the actual connections that people were making through face-to-face. Also, Snapchat? Terrifies me, horrific Wild West of social media
As a nurse I recognize that the availabilty of drugs makes for more use/abuse/addiction ... working with a bad back while having plenty of pain meds available is tempting. Also being ancient enough to be a late adopter of telephones in 2000 ... #loveNokia
My phone screen broke the other day and in the interval before I got it repaired, I realized both how much and how little I need it. How much, because everything is two-factor authentication now, so I had trouble logging in to some stuff at work. But how little because aside from calling my family at night or checking maps directions last minute, most of the scrolling I was doing during the day was just meaningless. Even directions can be printed out or written down ahead of time, which is what I uswd to do pre-smartphone anyway. Those two days were actually quite peaceful. Maybe I'll turn my phone off during the day more often, because it was really quite disturbing how often I had the urge to reach for it throughout the day.
Fun fact, the COPS told my niece she needed her own phone at like 7 years old. But they do sell flip phones - that was what we got my kid. He got made fun of for it.
I totally agree with the phone thing, I’m actually in the process of trying to get off my phone more, it’s actually really hard, I got my first slider phone when I was 15, not until I was almost 20 did I get a smart phone and it was probably not a good thing for me, I should’ve waited longer. There are options for phones that only talk and text for kids!
As someone in gen z, I feel like we are more on the verge of the change of what you think! We definitely had a childhood without screens, at least in my environment. But even when you know what is wrong, it‘s still really difficult to fix it?? Idk
I didn’t get a cell phone until 2008. I was 27 or 28 and had a supervisory job. I got it so that employees could call me if they were sick or something.
My childhood friends are identical twins (not sure if they’re mirror twins or not). One does happen to be gay whilst the other is not. Haha! I wonder how common that is in identical twins.
I got a cell phone when I turned 14(2004), up graded to a Razor flip phone late high school, got a slide keyboard phone early college, then got my first iPhone when I graduated college in 2012 😅. Great I feel old now…
exactly what ashley said it is a way of life that still exists in europe. not everywhere but from what i listen and learn about the US it is way more common in europe. i am so sad about the fact that you are so lonely in north america...
It was an interesting episode. I do think a lot of these are country specific regarding public spaces. A lot of schools are also pushing more recreational activities here in Aus. I do like the point about being bored
I understand the concern regarding cell phones, but I'm gonna need you ladies to join me in the AI panic. 😂😂 I would love to hear Ashley's take on AI and Gen Alpha. 🤔🤔 P.S. I have a niece (11yo) and nephew (8yo) and can promise the cafeteria is NOT silent. In fact, I think gen alpha is more social than gen z. These kids don't text each other, they facetime! And they all play online pvp and role play games together while facetiming. I think they're doing it right. 🤪
I was in a conversation with a bunch of people who were talking about starting a little tiny house community, and I was like, "You mean a trailer park?"
I think some of us gen zs still grew up off the internet, but I also have friends who had access to everything at a young age and guess who’s doing worse now😂 I’m dead center gen z and I still spent my childhood outside. I never wanted a phone even though everyone else had one, but in 7th grade my parents gave me one so they could contact me. I never really used it until high school. But even then I only got social media in my second year of uni. I was kind of an outcast for not having social media, but it never bothered me, I was confident enough. And that didn’t stop me from having the amazing friends I do. The only issue is I struggle with social media. I don’t like it. I barely respond to texts because I prefer talking in person. I can’t get used to Instagram which isolates me a bit from uni stuff
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
This is such a good episode. I can’t stop laughing while Mac just softly talks to herself…’I love mowing lawns, I love chopping wood’…while Ashley yells HEAVEN FORBID I WANT A GLASS OF MILK. 😂😂😂
"I see your iPhone footage every week" was WILD from Mak 😂😂😂
I can't believe they missed PermaSoup as what they had for dinner.
Lol this.
In India there is a certain restaurant that has a perpetual stew constantly going, they just add more as they hand it out to people and keep stirring, stirring the perpetual stew! Thank you guys for another charming episode! 😊❤
that sounds fun 😂
Lol, came here to also comment that permasoup is absolutely a thing, but that it is more commonly referred to as perpetual stew
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_stew
One downside that I couldn't find references to is that in the middle ages, when this was a more common practice, the perpetual stew could harbor strains of micro organisms that locals would develop immunity to, but that would be potentially fatal to outsiders.
@@garrickofminneapolis7552this is so interesting
I'm from India, I had no clue this existed! Thanks!
I'm from Brazil, we have one of those inspired by yours 😊
Alayna saying "I miss c_vid" resonates so much for me. March-June of 2020 is the last time I felt happy and content for any length of time. There have been moments since then but not a solid stretch. My wife and I were on lock down, we were approved for unemployment, and spent the day fixing our house, putting up fences, teaching her how to cook, scrap booking and walking our dog and goats. It was so peaceful and I have felt so guilty for enjoying that time while so many people were suffering and dying.
I'm right there with you!! You said that so well💞💞💞
I definitely want flag football updates from Mak every pod. I was a ref for flag football at college. It was fun.
What is flag football?
the more i think and listen and complain to myself about not having community and events and “third” spaces, the more i realize i could probably start something and make the change myself. it’s seems so daunting to put yourself out there like that, but maybe something i should consider to meet more people and make community.
Totally, things like game nights, yard games, inter murals sports, book clubs, and such matter more now than ever ❤
@@Raddiebaddieand it can be about anything at all! More specific, you get a little group of adorable nerds. More generalized, you get a bigger pool in which to find kindreds
If there’s no community around you, making it is the best option - sometimes there’s so many people who feel the same way as you and need an opportunity to get involved. You could be the opportunity!
it can feel daunting but you totally could do it! I recently started hosting small outdoor community events based on my own interests and community interests (pride party, crafting events, halloween gathering, etc) and it’s been really lovely! the hosting aspect can be stressful sometimes, but if you build community/have friends willing to help it makes it a lot easier. And at the end of the day the most important part is simply the space to be, something as simple as a picnic at a park can create an environment to build community and share space 💚
To add to the convo about popping in on friends and community, I grew up on a family farm with like, 5 seperate households, all on 88 acres. The thing I think folks miss and that I hear anxiety about is boundaries and practices, which my response is that as a community, you wind up with a set of norms and expectations! You don't have to answer every time someone knocks, and beyond that, when you knock there's an understanding that you might get an empty house, or a busy person! And I think folks worry about getting interrupted, but I was just as likely knocking to offer help as I was to ask for it. Also mealtimes are generally a no-go, if you caught someone eating you'd make it quick or leave it for later
100% to all of this.
I love taking people to the airport. I’m an hour from SFO. That drive before someone leaves is always some of the most precious time because their minds are in a different version of themselves as they prep for transition. Highly recommend offering airport rides.
Oh wow that's really interesting! Do you find they're more open or excited or something else?
The rant on how Ashley is always the only one with the heart bearing updates to share on pod was too funny of a call out
The zoom in on Ashley’s face after Elayna said, “tarot cards” was everything! 😂
To Ashley’s comment saying gen-z understands there’s something wrong but not what/why, as a gen-zer I think a lot of us do understand that phones and being online are the main problems but we don’t know how to change it since it’s just part of life for us since we can remember, like there is no other option than being online. and what you guys are describing, I would loveeee to live like that, but I honestly don’t think that would be possible anymore. to some extent maybe, but social media and the internet will always be part of that for most of us, so we have to find a way where we can do that in a more healthy way that is actually realistic and I think that’s a very tough question, that’s how I see it at least
this episode blew my mind as an irish person. here the majority of schools have phones banned completely, both during class and during lunch, and if you're caught with it you'd get it taken off you and most likely, you'd be sent to detention. i had no idea kids were allowed on their phones DURING LUNCH in other countries 😭 i'm so glad that wasn't the case for me 🙏
Schools in a lot of places in Europe are turning towards banning phones. The Netherlands even have a nationwide ban on smartphones and watches in school and Flanders is looking to do the same.
Same thing in the middle east. We would hide phones lmao
France just announced they'll be banning them starting next school year ! We took our sweet sweet time lol
I'm a Gen Zer who very much grew up with and lives in dropping by-culture. My parents' door is always open and people do show up and come in and drink a tea and they are always invited. Same for my grandparents. People will just show up, multiple times a day. I also get Alayna's point though about having to be a host constantly and that mental energy. Hearing someone at the door and deciding you're not available and ignoring them is a bad feeling. And of course there are people who are great at this and listen to you and remove barriers and bring their own food or tell you to sit down while they make the tea if you aren't feeling like it because they just want to spend time with you, but I feel that's not what dropping in usually is, unless you are going through something and people are coming to check in. Anyway, because this environment for me - where people live in houses instead of apartments and communities are small and local - is the countryside, it means we rely even more on smartphones and digital services, so I really don't see them being the antithesis to all this. The same goes for the demand to always be available: Yes, it comes from the phones, but it also happens in small communities.
That's a very insightful take. I'd add that in my neighborhood we often text first to ask if it's a good time to pop round, that way there's less pressure to answer than a knock at the door if people aren't available
I will say my 9 year old goes outside and plays around the apartment complex, a lot of his friends do too. They ride scooters and bikes, play football and soccer and basketball. So I don't think it's completely lost to children. But as we age we become more isolated.
Mak I'm right there with you with how good it feels to have someone come watch you play sports. I was lucky enough that my parents were the "never miss a game" type, and I took it for granted at the time, but I look back and I'm like WOW what a privelege. I honestly think it's one of my love languages now, lol. When someone wants to come watch me play sports it's so flattering. And if I want to come watch YOU play sports, that is my way of telling you I like you/ I care about you. I dated someone who didn't want me to come to her basketball games, she said it was her thing that she wanted to keep to herself and I was like ok, I respect that as your need, but it honestly kind of gave me the ick a little bit? Which might be a little bit dramatic, hahahaha, but all that is to say - I GET IT! I love sports watching as a way of showing you care!
Ashley wanting to evenly distribute her feelings is so relatable.
A dorm. Ashley wants a dorm at Comedy university
This is so accurate
Firstly I want to say thanks for a great episode. A lot of really great points made. I'm 18 and I got my first phone 4 years ago at 14. The main reason being that during lockdown in 2020 I was messaging my friends for the first time because we were all accessing our school laptops at home and I wanted to keep being able to talk to them over the summer holidays. I was one of the last people in my year group to get a phone and I am so, so grateful to my parents for that. I've been thinking a lot recently about how bad everyone seems to be doing. Have to say I'm pretty terrified for my generation. Somehow we've really screwed up our society and it doesn't seem to suit anyone anymore. I think it's also scary how, as you were saying, it's getting so hard for parents to do the 'right' thing and give their kids a normal upbringing.
I’m a public school (high school English) teacher here in Western Australia where we have a state-wide phone ban in our public schools. I absolutely LOVE this rule for our young people!
I'm a twin and it's always so entertaining listening to people talk about their views and experiences with twins
This was an episode and a half! So much covered. Heavy, real issues. Boy, it's hard to feel normal living in today's world. The world today seems so intimidating, isolating, fragile and corrupting.
And yes, the idea of joining a commune, or moving into a small town or apartment building filled friends and friends of friends sounds more and more desirable. The ideas of 'Neighbourhood' and 'community' discussed are nostalgic even for myself as a 27yr old.
I just graduated high school this past May, and yes, it was weird being in school in the era of phone addiction. Teachers constantly having to stop class to tell everyone to get off their phones, sooo many people sitting by themselves at lunch because they just wanted to watch Netflix/RUclips/TikTok and eat. Obviously it makes it hard to be social when you're sucked into your phone all the time, but it also affects people who ARE social: You don't want to go up to someone or make small talk with someone who has Airpods in and is scrolling on their phone. And if you do it anyway, they'll give you dirty looks or be very obviously uninterested in the conversation (because all they want is to get back to scrolling). It made high school really lonely, and sad. And even now that I'm in college, it's not really any different.
The technological and social mixing for children is a fine line to balance. In our house we have very strict rules on time-management and screens and I have always put a great emphasis on being outdoors, doing sports, creativity and staying curious about the world around you. It is a law here in the Netherlands that phones are banned at school now. They are put in a safe in the classroom at the beginning off schooltime and then they get them back at the end of school.
Ashley, you would love the book “The Anxious Generation” by Johnathan Haidt (if you haven’t already read it). Highly recommend it to anyone wanting to learn more about how cellphones impact childhood and also some solutions for the future. The book sounds almost exactly like what you were saying about phones/parenting/mental health/childhood etc. The entire first section of the book is just graphs on trends in mental health between 2010-2015, with phones becoming commonplace around 2013. The data is there!
Great episode :)
I’m super familiar with his work! Haven’t read the book yet!
I'm an identical twin. I'm gay as hell, but my sister isn't. People call us wombmates all the time. It's kind of cringe but accurate? My sister would never live on a commune. For the record, I would live anywhere with a group of lesbians.
One of the problems with parenting and kids is its always been very hard to mange your life while you have kids. Going to the loo, having a shower, tidying your house. You're exhausted and the ability to distract your kids for a moments peace. Certainly some of that is the loss of wider support networks. But its always been hard.
Alana can you talk more about the reparenting and fulfilling a childhood need and how that works and what to do and all that? I’m sure others as well as my self would find it very helpful.
As an elder gen-z, I relate a lot to Mak with the playing outside and friends thing. Myself and most of my friends got phones (not smart phones) around middle school, and then got smart phones in high school. Also iPod touches were a big thing lol.
And also - as a former preschool teacher who worked in schools before and after the pandemic, those kids are just different.
Especially the ones born in 2019-2020. A lot of them didn’t get a ton of socialization and also didn’t see many faces other than those of their family because of quarantine and masks. In my experience, they are much more attached to their parents, have more trouble sharing, and generally participate less in interactive play. I stopped a few years ago so I never got to see those kids grow up more. So I’m not sure how they are now, but it was obvious that they were different.
And on a last note, luckily the school I worked at had a no screen policy. We were outside a LOT. They did really well in that environment. But you could tell which ones were getting screen time at home and even which ones picked up on their parents screen time. I’m curious how they will be as they get older.
So TW for discussions about suicide but I'm pretty sure the third thing that Alayna talks about isn't accès but "acquired capability" (in a paper "reductions in fear and pain sensitivity sufficient to overcome self preservation reflexes"). This would include things like familiarity and practice with the things that are used for suicide, and might be one of the reasons why men have higher rates of suicide deaths (familiarity with firearms, but also with violence, social conditioning to disregard body integrity, etc). This is also used as an explanation of why second attempts more often result in death, there's this "practice" effect. I wasn't taught this in grad school a few years ago, its interesting to see it's being taught now!
Dear Ashley, would you rock a sun dress at a commune? Keep baseball cap of course 😂
honestly so glad that ashley sound like an "old man" sometimes because she's not wrong! There are many modern problems with technology and we'd be ridiculous not to acknowledge them. It was always weird to me that little 2 year olds get i pads when i had to wait till i was in 8th grade till I even had a flip phone. When I was really little, my older brother had gone through numerous phones, so I know they were readily available back then. and I feel like I understand a bit of what ashley was saying about reactivity. Ever since I've become more fixed to my phone and laptop, there are less opportunities to sit and do nothing, like I had when I was little. And it ties in with what a lot of older adults ARE saying about phones, and sitting in silence, we just need to listen to them more.
im a 1998 kid, my childhood is a mixture, id play outside w my neighbors and cousins, then go home at night to play computer games online - i like the best of both worlds - im also an artsy kid so despite the computer and phone, i chose to make art, just depends on the childs personality, i think kids today still play outside, theyre just also more online bc of easy tech access so older gens think thats all they do, its not lmao
i've finally gotten myself to the point where my phone is boring, like sometimes i pick up my phone out of boredom and i can't find anything worth my time to do on it. it's great tbh.
I can think of nothing more validating than making Ashley laugh the way Mak did this episode
Mak, the pod wouldn't be the same without you!
I have my phone on silent at all times, mostly because I hate the sound of notifications, but a nice side effect is that I'm not on my phone all the time checking messages/pings and I am not available 24/7 to people. I got an iPod Touch when I was 12 (iPhone at 15 when I started public school) and I remember 12 year old me noticing I had the instinct to instantly check my phone anytime it buzzed or binged and making the conscious choice to turn off the ringer. And it has been like that since.
I told my (literal boomer. Like, early 1950's babies) parents recently that I never had my ringer on and I was shocked that THEY were incredulous and being like "What if I have an emergency? I can't contact you??" like 1) we live 10 hours away from each other. I can't provide immediate assistance anyway, and 2) you lived without cell phones until your 50s! And didn't get smart phones until your 60s! You of all people should be used to the idea that you couldn't have 24/7 access to people!
LOL has become GOOOMB (giggled outside of my body)
The beginnings of this episode is too funny 😂😂
Appreciate all the discussions about community, communes and how phones and screens impact us. I think there is a trend of swinging back towards being in community after the COVID years and people being tired of disconnection in general. I have faith that gen Z and Gen Alpha will be just fine.
As someone who has issues focusing on stuff, I can't believe I made it 24 minutes into this without needing to go off to something else lol Definitely gonna sub and come back to this later!
Loved the discussion about the depressed kiddos!! I’m a crisis therapist for suicidal children and their families, so always love when these things are being talked about! Also relate to Mak being on the tail end of gen z, so I was def outside in the trees lol might be a mid west thing too! Appreciate you guys, always fun to listen ❤️
The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt covers a lot of things Ashley says or touches on re: phones. It's not a perfect book, but it's pretty good and is a huge part of why so many schools right now are banning cell phones in schools. We're at a critical tipping point re: phones; more and more people understand how much harm this has done and are working to course correct.
EDIT TO ADD: Ashley, there ARE parents out there already who are working to prevent the harm of phones with their kids. Also there are ways to stepping stone this. Buy a double digit years kid a dumb phone for emergencies, something that can only do calls and text.
Mak’s closed-eyes, slow head-nod response to “Dad Rant” 🙌🏻
ohhhh nooooo i can’t scroll through the comments bc this was posted 30sec ago
I just got out of therapy so hearing Mak talk about these re-parenting herself 😭 Thank you so much for sharing these moments, Mak ❤️ I am so glad that your girlfriend was there for you and takes interest in your new hobbies!!
Awww Mak made me cry happy tears 🥲
me too!! ♡
Feck this is my new favourite ep every single topic on point
I would like to say as a Gen Z (first year, so the older part of Gen Z) we STILL spent tons of our time outside and played with people maybe to the age of like 16? HOWEVER.. Gen Alpha, which is 13-14 now (the oldest ones) genuinely have not had the middle ground experience we did. Their world is actually for the most part screen based. And to me, it’s honestly genuinely quite wild. Because you are right, the kids are pretty confused and it seems like they know something is up, just not *what*.
My experience may be a bit different because I live in the U.K. though and all our houses and areas are a lot closer together?
I would say around 5-6 years ago we’ve noticed playgrounds aren’t crowded by kids anymore. 5-6 years ago you still found tons of kids at playgrounds laughing and running around and having fun in my location, but in the recent years it really dwindled (covid may be part of it) - this year my friend and I (she has a little one) noticed just how deserted things have become, ESPECIALLY in summer holidays, which was very, very weird to us. But I guess most kids now spend time indoors on games instead of outside playing. But for us it was bizarre as we grew up with the “come home when the street lights come on” or “come home when I call you on your crappy little phone that can only make phone calls and play music which you recorded via the speaker” 🤣 Truly though, it’s super strange these days. It all feels so off.
Episodes like this are why I love the pod
Downside is banning phones in schools is that responsibility falls on the teachers and administrators. My husband has his masters degree and from 6:30 in the morning to 5:30pm he takes away cell phones and then does his actual job from 5:30-8:30. He is a high school administrator. 9th - 12th grade. Schools are being seen as nothing more than free baby sitting.
I am a parent of teens, and I specifically only expect to be able to contact them around when we have an agreed pick up time. I want them to have the freedom to plan for themselves.
imagining Mak play flag football while her girlfriend is lovingly watching her makes my gay heart melt
I cant believe mak started talking about agatha all along and they never came back to it 😭 i feel robbed
but in all seriousness, this was such a good episode!!
As of this fall B.C., Alberta, Ontario, Nova Scotia, Quebec and New Brunswick all have various bans on cell phone use during K-12 school hours. -- They should bring the flip phone back for kids. Parents could stay in touch, but there would be nothing on them to tempt kids to always play on them. And because there will always be some parent who wants to give their kid a smartphone, the government should simply ban smartphones for kids under a certain age like they already ban kids from things like buying cigarettes, driving a car, or drinking alcohol -- It sounds like you just want to live in a really small town. Which sounds good, but being human, we would also want the conveniences of a city. Maybe we should divide cities into a whole bunch of small towns connected together.
Mak's flag football update... talking about how her parents were always busy... would also be the perfect segway into introducing the podcast... right Mum... i mean Alayna?
My mom and aunt are mirror image twins! Not all identical twins are mirror image. Mirror image happens when the egg splits even later than just identical twins. Hence, the mirror image!
The book 'the anxious generation' is all about the effect of phones and social media on kids and how it is causing them to be so anxious.
I got my first phone as an off to college present in 2004, I was 17. First smart phone wasn't until 2012/13. My kids don't have phones or tablets and only watch TV on good behavior days for 1 hour while I make dinner. Except Wednesday, my wife's day off, where if they had a good day we all watch a whole movie together.
Omg doesn't Alayna live in Vancouver?? Skytrain is so cool and accessible! If I lived in a city with that amazing of a transit system, I'd be using it to go see friends ALL THE TIME!
I graduated high school ins 2021. People still talked during lunch.
Alanya is literally describing the villages in FL. 😊
Thanks as always for making me laugh it was much needed depression been kicking my ass love you ❤️ always a good episode with or without a question
Yes, I saw squirrels like that😊
🥰I love hearing Mak talking about her gf coming to support her in sports. That's the kind of partner i want to be...if i ever find my person.
🤣Mak's segway to Patreon.
So true about not owning a car in the city! The brief time I lived in one, a bus stop was literally right outside my door, train was a couple blocks away, and so much was accessible by foot.
My child is an adult now, but he was only allowed a prepaid flip phone when he was at an age when it was more for safety and being able to reach me. When he started working, he got an iPhone with his own money, paid for his own service. I didn't like it, but he went out and got it. For the money he spent, felt I couldn't take it away. I agree about the socialization. I was so happy when he wanted to go to rock night at the ice skating rink, I told him that's real socialization.
I am constantly glued to my phone or a computer when I'm along and have thought a lot about how to fix that. It's a mix of adhd and being a sad little mope all the time that makes me crave constant distraction 😅 maybe that's the thing I should focus on to make me feel better. I do have outside hobbies, like swimming, dog training and when I go see friends, we barely touch our phones.
Loved this episode! I'm currently reading a book called 'The anxious generation" by Jonathan Haidt, which delves into all those things you're talking about : kids needs not being met in the digital age, the connection with mental health issues rising up etc. Really great book if you are into these topics!
I have never been this early to a video in my life
26:16 Ireland mentionedddd🇮🇪🦅🇮🇪🦅
Great episode! I giggled outside of my body. 😂
Don’t diss the pickle ball Tarot Ash 😂😂
Yes to the artist-commune Ashley…I *wish* I could laugh about all your day-to-day jokes and puns…I would need to bring loads of pants to live there, cause I would constantly p*ss my pants laughing so hard 😂😂
Down in Australia, I'm not too certain of the other states, but NSW has bans on phones in schools, it's been implemented literally in the past two years or so, but as a Stage 6 (Yr 11 & 12) student, I really noticed the actual connections that people were making through face-to-face. Also, Snapchat? Terrifies me, horrific Wild West of social media
mak just wants to be daddy 😂 also, I saw something today that a couple started a "dumb phone" company and I'm soooooo excited about it
Ashley kinda wants to live with her mates like the starting scene of Rent 😂
There are a lot of pubs/Resteraunts in our area x This is great and our kids and Grandkids get took out every week. Day in and day out x 🏴 🇬🇧
As a nurse I recognize that the availabilty of drugs makes for more use/abuse/addiction ... working with a bad back while having plenty of pain meds available is tempting. Also being ancient enough to be a late adopter of telephones in 2000 ... #loveNokia
My phone screen broke the other day and in the interval before I got it repaired, I realized both how much and how little I need it. How much, because everything is two-factor authentication now, so I had trouble logging in to some stuff at work. But how little because aside from calling my family at night or checking maps directions last minute, most of the scrolling I was doing during the day was just meaningless. Even directions can be printed out or written down ahead of time, which is what I uswd to do pre-smartphone anyway. Those two days were actually quite peaceful. Maybe I'll turn my phone off during the day more often, because it was really quite disturbing how often I had the urge to reach for it throughout the day.
Brb setting app timers bc you right
Fun fact, the COPS told my niece she needed her own phone at like 7 years old. But they do sell flip phones - that was what we got my kid. He got made fun of for it.
Mac, you need to read this graphic novel by Tillie Walden titled Spinning, trust me.
Here in Norway phones are starting to get banned from schools as because of this exact problem with social interaction.
Alayna - your commune sounds like Church and Wellesley back in the day in Toronto.
I totally agree with the phone thing, I’m actually in the process of trying to get off my phone more, it’s actually really hard, I got my first slider phone when I was 15, not until I was almost 20 did I get a smart phone and it was probably not a good thing for me, I should’ve waited longer. There are options for phones that only talk and text for kids!
I relate to having a whole conversation in my head while in a group of ppl 🤭
As someone in gen z, I feel like we are more on the verge of the change of what you think! We definitely had a childhood without screens, at least in my environment. But even when you know what is wrong, it‘s still really difficult to fix it?? Idk
I love this pod! Lmao
I didn’t get a cell phone until 2008. I was 27 or 28 and had a supervisory job. I got it so that employees could call me if they were sick or something.
My fiancée is a mirror image twin and she is gay and her twin is straight!!!
My childhood friends are identical twins (not sure if they’re mirror twins or not). One does happen to be gay whilst the other is not. Haha! I wonder how common that is in identical twins.
I am listening on a smartphone, but I'm also playing Minecraft so do they cancel each out?
I got a (Nokia) phone for my 13th birthday; a new one at 18 (before moving out; also a "dumb phone"); and bought myself a smartphone at 24. :D
I got a cell phone when I turned 14(2004), up graded to a Razor flip phone late high school, got a slide keyboard phone early college, then got my first iPhone when I graduated college in 2012 😅. Great I feel old now…
exactly what ashley said it is a way of life that still exists in europe. not everywhere but from what i listen and learn about the US it is way more common in europe. i am so sad about the fact that you are so lonely in north america...
It was an interesting episode. I do think a lot of these are country specific regarding public spaces. A lot of schools are also pushing more recreational activities here in Aus. I do like the point about being bored
I understand the concern regarding cell phones, but I'm gonna need you ladies to join me in the AI panic. 😂😂 I would love to hear Ashley's take on AI and Gen Alpha. 🤔🤔 P.S. I have a niece (11yo) and nephew (8yo) and can promise the cafeteria is NOT silent. In fact, I think gen alpha is more social than gen z. These kids don't text each other, they facetime! And they all play online pvp and role play games together while facetiming. I think they're doing it right. 🤪
Mak as quarterback is giving hot teenage brother. 🤷
I was in a conversation with a bunch of people who were talking about starting a little tiny house community, and I was like, "You mean a trailer park?"
Genuinely choked on my water laughing 😂
I think some of us gen zs still grew up off the internet, but I also have friends who had access to everything at a young age and guess who’s doing worse now😂
I’m dead center gen z and I still spent my childhood outside. I never wanted a phone even though everyone else had one, but in 7th grade my parents gave me one so they could contact me. I never really used it until high school. But even then I only got social media in my second year of uni. I was kind of an outcast for not having social media, but it never bothered me, I was confident enough. And that didn’t stop me from having the amazing friends I do.
The only issue is I struggle with social media. I don’t like it. I barely respond to texts because I prefer talking in person. I can’t get used to Instagram which isolates me a bit from uni stuff
Splooting 3:58
I'll join the patreon if y'all start a commune 🤣🤣🤣. That would be so cool