I to have an M9 and love it, it has so much more side room than my DFXL. For guys like me that are 6 foot and wear a size 48 shoe I have had to to make some adjustments in the crank arm size. I went with the 130 mm crank arms, and I have found that I like them better than the larger ones. I run a 63 tooth chain ring on top, and with this setup I shift from 1st gear to 2nd at 12 MPH (19 km/h). This is one incredible bike, the interior room is second to none and the riding position is very hard to beat. I have Tiller steering, it's what I am use to and I find it is much better for me because I have much more room on the sides, its also what I have on my DFXL.
Good to hear tiller works well for you. I came to accept tank steering with the M9 precisely because of the room it has next to the steering arms. Now, I really appreciate this type of steering (though I still have my DFXL to ride with tiller steering).
me and my buddy were going down a road with a decent tailwind. was flat. we went about 40km/h. was pretty much the limit we could comfortably maintain. then two guys in velomobiles just zoom by wayy faster. i always thought roadbikes were fast, but alas.
I just love the shape of these Vellomobiles, especially the M9. The problem I have is that there are very steep hills in my riding area, and I need electric assistance to make it back home.I currently have a heavy recumbent trike with a BBSHD motor and believe me, it is absolutely necessary with the 12 percent incline. I dont use the electric motor for speed, only for hill assists.
@@arnoldanderson1501 well, it all depends on the type of hills, how long, how steep, early into the ride or after warming up? I climb hills every time I go riding. I could ride in a different direction and have mostly flat terrain, but I prefer the hills because it is quieter, has more shade and better views. Probably your trike weighs as much as the M9 but has a much for flex in the drive train.
Thank you for another informative video! Knowing you did also a lot of touring in particular with the df, I'd be interested in a comparision with the M9 concerning travelling. Looking forward to your answer or one of your next videos, take care.
The M9 clearly has more space for luggage and it is the roomier one for a rider on tour. Even with the tank steering it has much more space left and right behind the wheel arches - precious real estate for food and drinks. I do miss the shelf behind my right shoulder which the DF has.
Josef, have you ridden a Milan SL or GT yet? If yes, can you provide a brief comparison to the M9? Very nice area to ride in, in the video, you are very lucky!
I have not. I ride with Milan riders a lot (there is an SL in the video, too), but my own experience is 2 hours of riding the Bülk. So, I can’t really give a fair comparison.
Thank you very much for your review. On the forums in general, I am finding there is a lot of discussion about the W9 and not so much for the M9. But anyway, a couple of questions for you: What tyres are you using? How do you find the view of the road in front? I mean, there is no central "valley" like the DF and Alpha 7 have, so it looks as though you have lost a couple of metres of view right in front of the nose, but of course that depends on your eye height. Would you say your seat angle is a little more upright or set higher than with the DF? As you may remember, I am building my own VM and its dimensions (and shape) are intentionally, as far as I can make them, close to the M9. I watched a video Daniel made, while somewhere in Italy, with beer in hand, explaining (I think!) why he regards the M9 as his best work. I asked him whether he thought the M9 might corner better than the W9 because of the wider track and he said the M9 is definitely the most stable in corners. Anyway, thanks again for the upload, sorry it's a long message...
Daniel shot the video you refer to on the margins of a 3-week-tour of Italy I organized in 2022. I had plenty of time to see the M9 in action, which prompted me to do another and longer test ride in an M9 some time after the tour, because my initial test ride had been underwhelming. This time, however, the M9 spoke to me and I ordered mine. In the M9 the rider's head has to be at a certain level, to have a good view through the rear view mirrors (which are mounted on the inside of the forward rim) and to see over the hood. You lose 1-2 meters compared to my DF but I don't find it to be an issue. Seat position is about the same compared to the DFxl which I still ride. Tires are 28-406 Schwalbe One with tubes, rear is a 28-584 Continental 5000 with tube.
I ended up with bruised shoulders from the rounded cockpit rims in the W9 after the first day of riding. I had to Velcro pads in place, so I have to disagree that the rounded rims are more comfortable.
That is strange. The M9 at least has no sharp ends; I ride a lot on less optimal roads and never suffer any bruises on my shoulders. Unlike the DFxl I also don't use should pads; the different steering makes for a different body position, which combined to the seat takes away the need to lean against a pad. You may not have had it set up right for you. Of course you are free to disagree with my judgement, but I probably have done over 100.000 km with the standard type cockpit rim, and now about 12.000 km with the rounded one -- so I trust my body to give me a proper feed back on comfort.
@@rhein228 perhaps my shoulders are shaped differently from yours. I used a thick seat pad to put me in the proper position since Daniel didn’t have time to install the proper seat for me when I was there.
You should not touch the rounded rims when riding. If you do you may sit far too high (you would also notice that the mirrors are misaligned which you may have mentioned when I remember, that would prove this point). The rims are mostly relevant in case of an accicent/rollover. I don't touch mine at all when riding.
@@mnveloguy Actually I don't hit the rim even on very bad roads. Maybe you are just too high. The only time I hit the rim was when I asked a friend to roll me over on a lawn just to see how it feels when you do. I just stayed in the seat because the seat is nicely fixed and the rim works like a seatbelt, my head was never even near the ground and then I got out myself.
You mentioned something about wing mirrors, but I'm surprised you don't use digital wing mirrors, (I mean using little cameras and computer monitors as a wing mirror).
Why should I use cameras if a simple mirror works just as well? Less complexity, less dependency on battery supply seems better to me. The 9 series has mirrors on the inside of the cockpit rim, which is a great idea in my view when it works. And it does work for me, because my head is in the right position. It may not for taller or shorter people beyond the range of seat adjustment options. They would either need to opt for the A9 or the W9.
@@stefanpaneczko706 I have not as I am not tall enough at 183 cm. A9.2 is optimal for people taller than 190 cm. People like myself could ride it but are better served with the M9. A9 is longer and higher, overall with at the shoulders is about the same. I would sit too deep in an A9, and probably have a less optimal angle of the chain between chainwheel and idler. I should add that I have done a few thousand km in the company of a buddy in his A9 - I know that model as good as you could without riding one yourself.
What would you name as the single largest advantage of M9 compared to DF XL with regards to riding characteristic? Albeit your answer would be somewhat subjective, your reviews are sufficiently nuanced for the answer to be valuable. I ride a DF XL for touring and training in mainly the Netherlands (and a bit in Germany), for 8 years and 33.000+ km now (after a period of 5y/40.000+kms in a glassfiber Quest). I enjoy the DF still as much as the first time I stepped in. Nevertheless I keep my eyes open for better alternatives - if they really are substantially better. Danke!
Thanks for the question, Mark. If I could only give one answer I’d say track stability. I have never ridden a velomobile which is less affected by side winds or gusts. If I could give a second biggest advantage I’d say roominess. The M9 feels as roomy as a Quest and has at least as much storage capacity. If I could give 3 advantages it would be seating position with drive train efficiency. Beats every other model I have been in. I should add that I still ride my DFxl. Have had DF velomobiles since they came out, my first was #9. My current DF is my 3rd. Before I had been riding a fiber glass and 3 different carbon Quest for 10 years, and a Quattrovelo for 3 years.
@@mavawa not easy to say, I climb faster, about 1-2 km/h (possibly for lack of equally low gearing), I find myself cruising at 50 km/h more often than I do in the DF. I don’t do exact measuring, don’t ride the exact same routes, keeping tracks of conditions and time, so I can’t give a substantial answer. In my experience the M9 defies the rule that smaller frontal area is faster, it seems the closed wheel arches and the overall design overcompensate the larger size.
@@rhein228 I understand, it's more an intuitive statement, but that's also valuable given your vast experience. My old Quest had better aerodynamics due to the closed wheel arches, but could not be driven as fast as my DF mainly due to lack of stiffness and its weight. M9 combines a lot of benefits, except for the large turning circle, so it seems to me.
Nice video. Tbh I think there are at least two more downsides, which I discovered on the recent Spezi. Entering is quite a hassle (which might be aleviated as soon as you get used to it), I had to step on the seat to get in. As an all weather commuter I wouldn't like that at all. Secondly, adjusting it to a different rider is said to be anything but easy. Which is sad, because I would like to have my wife test it as well (if she may like doing so). So I will test the Bülk first, which has no drawbacks like these, maybe others instead. How do you think the M9 compares to the Bülk?
I’ve owned both a W9 (smaller version of M9) and Bülk. The seat system of the Bülk and the longer opening are very nice to have. The only potential disadvantage is that the Bülk is a bit narrower, 5cm less than M9 at the shoulders, and 4cm less between the front wheel wells. For most people this is no problem, but there are a few people who do not like the tighter space. The new Bülk Urban is another nice option. At higher speeds it is not quite as efficient as the regular Bülk, but most of us do not ride at those speeds. The Urban has the same space between the front wheel wells as the M9. All of these options handle extremely well in wind and at higher speeds. All are very stiff. The Bülk MK1 is the fastest of the options, but the difference is not huge. Most important is to choose the model that suits you best. Since you wish to let your wife try it, then the Bülk mk1 or Urban would likely be the best choice for you.
I have spent only about 2 hours riding the Bülk, not enough for a fair judgement. My thighs were rubbing on the wheel houses, that was a major downside for me. Actually, I prefer the seat position and mount on the M9 -- it is the stiffest seat in any Velomobile I have ridden over the past 15 years. Adjusting the seat may be easier in the Bülk, but it is also less firm -- my two buddies riding Bülks are not enthusiastic about the seat and the seat mount. Stepping in isn't among the negatives for the Bülk -- try to get into an Alpha 7, a DF, or a Snoek L, and you will like the fairly large manhole of the 9-series. I'm not selling velomobiles, thus I do not have any commercial interests in promoting a specific model.
@@rhein228 if your friends have early Bülks, I believe the seat has been stiffened at a critical point since then. My seat is just as solid as the one in the W9 I had.
@@rhein228 That's why I asked you in the first place. And thank you for the reply. I was a salesman myself. Never ask salesmen for a recommendation, that's what I learned. I guess I have to reconsider one or two Things. If the riding experience and luggage space are so much better at the cost of entering and being versatile for everybody, then I will have to ask myself which one of these aspects is more about the whole point of a velomobile.
@@mnveloguyDu hast einen Kastrierten Sitz. Falsch eingebaut worden von ihrem Händler. Händler sind aber auch Sie. Ihr W9 ist Prototypenstatus und hätte so nicht verkauft werden dürfen. Ein Neuer Velomobiltyp muss immer zwingend zuerst zu mir (Das ist vertraglich so). Danach wird das SerienVm daran überarbeitet. Sie sind extrem geschäftsschädigend für uns, versuchen andere Velomobile besser das stehen zu lassen. Sie haben aber kein Serien Vm. Berghoch sind aktuelle Alpha9 Berghoch deutlich überlegen. Beim Wind ist das M9 jedem anderen Vm Haushoch überlegen. In einem W9 am runden Rand anzustoßen sollte unmöglich sein bis man sich überschlägt. Der Rand vom W9 ist höher dem M9. Beim W9s nochmals 1,5cm höher. Wer hier Probleme hat sollte mit seinem Händler ernsthaft reden. Keine Angst ich werde auf den Ben den Denunziant nicht weiter eingehen Ein M9 mit Überdacht ist ganz klar so schnell wie ein Bülk. Beide VM gehören nicht zu der schnellsten Klasse.
Kein besonderes Kunststück, das lässt sich mit der kostenlosen Garmin VIRB Edit Software individuell gestalten. Ich bin da eher am minimalistischen Ende des Spektrums
These will never fly here in good ole USA. Way to expensive for what you get. Plus how will I be able to get this unit into my truck? And I am 6'6" tall. Not made for us big people in America. Save 10K and buy an American made Ebike that will run circles around these things.
That may be so. You’ll miss a very unique experience that’s very different from riding a „normal“ bicycle. Also, don’t compare that to e-assisted bikes. This does not have and does not need a motor.
Beautiful ride and very nice review.
I to have an M9 and love it, it has so much more side room than my DFXL. For guys like me that are 6 foot and wear a size 48 shoe I have had to to make some adjustments in the crank arm size. I went with the 130 mm crank arms, and I have found that I like them better than the larger ones. I run a 63 tooth chain ring on top, and with this setup I shift from 1st gear to 2nd at 12 MPH (19 km/h). This is one incredible bike, the interior room is second to none and the riding position is very hard to beat. I have Tiller steering, it's what I am use to and I find it is much better for me because I have much more room on the sides, its also what I have on my DFXL.
Good to hear tiller works well for you. I came to accept tank steering with the M9 precisely because of the room it has next to the steering arms. Now, I really appreciate this type of steering (though I still have my DFXL to ride with tiller steering).
Great review. Double thumbs up! Thanks.
me and my buddy were going down a road with a decent tailwind. was flat. we went about 40km/h. was pretty much the limit we could comfortably maintain. then two guys in velomobiles just zoom by wayy faster. i always thought roadbikes were fast, but alas.
Such is life in the company of velomobiles. Some day, you may want to try one out yourself.
@@rhein228 seems like a tt bike but better essentially. deff need to try at some point.
@@EstelonAgarwaen beats every tt bike on level ground
I just love the shape of these Vellomobiles, especially the M9. The problem I have is that there are very steep hills in my riding area, and I need electric assistance to make it back home.I currently have a heavy recumbent trike with a BBSHD motor and believe me, it is absolutely necessary with the 12 percent incline. I dont use the electric motor for speed, only for hill assists.
@@arnoldanderson1501 well, it all depends on the type of hills, how long, how steep, early into the ride or after warming up? I climb hills every time I go riding. I could ride in a different direction and have mostly flat terrain, but I prefer the hills because it is quieter, has more shade and better views.
Probably your trike weighs as much as the M9 but has a much for flex in the drive train.
Thank you for another informative video! Knowing you did also a lot of touring in particular with the df, I'd be interested in a comparision with the M9 concerning travelling.
Looking forward to your answer or one of your next videos, take care.
The M9 clearly has more space for luggage and it is the roomier one for a rider on tour. Even with the tank steering it has much more space left and right behind the wheel arches - precious real estate for food and drinks. I do miss the shelf behind my right shoulder which the DF has.
Thank you 👍
Josef, have you ridden a Milan SL or GT yet? If yes, can you provide a brief comparison to the M9? Very nice area to ride in, in the video, you are very lucky!
I have not. I ride with Milan riders a lot (there is an SL in the video, too), but my own experience is 2 hours of riding the Bülk. So, I can’t really give a fair comparison.
Thank you very much for your review. On the forums in general, I am finding there is a lot of discussion about the W9 and not so much for the M9. But anyway, a couple of questions for you: What tyres are you using? How do you find the view of the road in front? I mean, there is no central "valley" like the DF and Alpha 7 have, so it looks as though you have lost a couple of metres of view right in front of the nose, but of course that depends on your eye height. Would you say your seat angle is a little more upright or set higher than with the DF? As you may remember, I am building my own VM and its dimensions (and shape) are intentionally, as far as I can make them, close to the M9. I watched a video Daniel made, while somewhere in Italy, with beer in hand, explaining (I think!) why he regards the M9 as his best work. I asked him whether he thought the M9 might corner better than the W9 because of the wider track and he said the M9 is definitely the most stable in corners. Anyway, thanks again for the upload, sorry it's a long message...
Daniel shot the video you refer to on the margins of a 3-week-tour of Italy I organized in 2022. I had plenty of time to see the M9 in action, which prompted me to do another and longer test ride in an M9 some time after the tour, because my initial test ride had been underwhelming. This time, however, the M9 spoke to me and I ordered mine.
In the M9 the rider's head has to be at a certain level, to have a good view through the rear view mirrors (which are mounted on the inside of the forward rim) and to see over the hood. You lose 1-2 meters compared to my DF but I don't find it to be an issue.
Seat position is about the same compared to the DFxl which I still ride.
Tires are 28-406 Schwalbe One with tubes, rear is a 28-584 Continental 5000 with tube.
I ended up with bruised shoulders from the rounded cockpit rims in the W9 after the first day of riding. I had to Velcro pads in place, so I have to disagree that the rounded rims are more comfortable.
That is strange. The M9 at least has no sharp ends; I ride a lot on less optimal roads and never suffer any bruises on my shoulders. Unlike the DFxl I also don't use should pads; the different steering makes for a different body position, which combined to the seat takes away the need to lean against a pad.
You may not have had it set up right for you. Of course you are free to disagree with my judgement, but I probably have done over 100.000 km with the standard type cockpit rim, and now about 12.000 km with the rounded one -- so I trust my body to give me a proper feed back on comfort.
@@rhein228 perhaps my shoulders are shaped differently from yours. I used a thick seat pad to put me in the proper position since Daniel didn’t have time to install the proper seat for me when I was there.
You should not touch the rounded rims when riding. If you do you may sit far too high (you would also notice that the mirrors are misaligned which you may have mentioned when I remember, that would prove this point).
The rims are mostly relevant in case of an accicent/rollover. I don't touch mine at all when riding.
@@ChristianWSG not all roads are smooth. When you hit a bump, you hit the rim.
@@mnveloguy Actually I don't hit the rim even on very bad roads. Maybe you are just too high. The only time I hit the rim was when I asked a friend to roll me over on a lawn just to see how it feels when you do. I just stayed in the seat because the seat is nicely fixed and the rim works like a seatbelt, my head was never even near the ground and then I got out myself.
You mentioned something about wing mirrors, but I'm surprised you don't use digital wing mirrors, (I mean using little cameras and computer monitors as a wing mirror).
Why should I use cameras if a simple mirror works just as well? Less complexity, less dependency on battery supply seems better to me.
The 9 series has mirrors on the inside of the cockpit rim, which is a great idea in my view when it works. And it does work for me, because my head is in the right position. It may not for taller or shorter people beyond the range of seat adjustment options. They would either need to opt for the A9 or the W9.
@@rhein228 better aerodynamics.
@@matthewbaynham6286 no wind resistance with internally mounted mirrors
Can you please give me a link where i can buythe cap you are wearing? Thanks 👍
Go to the website of Rapha.
Thank you sir, looking forward to see more videos of your velomobiles.@@rhein228
Have you riden a Alpha 9.2?? Wonder how much difference there is inside room wise.
@@stefanpaneczko706 I have not as I am not tall enough at 183 cm. A9.2 is optimal for people taller than 190 cm. People like myself could ride it but are better served with the M9. A9 is longer and higher, overall with at the shoulders is about the same. I would sit too deep in an A9, and probably have a less optimal angle of the chain between chainwheel and idler.
I should add that I have done a few thousand km in the company of a buddy in his A9 - I know that model as good as you could without riding one yourself.
I'm 195cm tall. Hope Alpha 9.2 will be big enough.Now to find the cash😢
What would you name as the single largest advantage of M9 compared to DF XL with regards to riding characteristic? Albeit your answer would be somewhat subjective, your reviews are sufficiently nuanced for the answer to be valuable. I ride a DF XL for touring and training in mainly the Netherlands (and a bit in Germany), for 8 years and 33.000+ km now (after a period of 5y/40.000+kms in a glassfiber Quest). I enjoy the DF still as much as the first time I stepped in. Nevertheless I keep my eyes open for better alternatives - if they really are substantially better. Danke!
Thanks for the question, Mark. If I could only give one answer I’d say track stability. I have never ridden a velomobile which is less affected by side winds or gusts.
If I could give a second biggest advantage I’d say roominess. The M9 feels as roomy as a Quest and has at least as much storage capacity. If I could give 3 advantages it would be seating position with drive train efficiency. Beats every other model I have been in.
I should add that I still ride my DFxl. Have had DF velomobiles since they came out, my first was #9. My current DF is my 3rd. Before I had been riding a fiber glass and 3 different carbon Quest for 10 years, and a Quattrovelo for 3 years.
@@rhein228 Okay, and could you state the overall speed difference between both models?
@@mavawa not easy to say, I climb faster, about 1-2 km/h (possibly for lack of equally low gearing), I find myself cruising at 50 km/h more often than I do in the DF. I don’t do exact measuring, don’t ride the exact same routes, keeping tracks of conditions and time, so I can’t give a substantial answer.
In my experience the M9 defies the rule that smaller frontal area is faster, it seems the closed wheel arches and the overall design overcompensate the larger size.
@@rhein228 I understand, it's more an intuitive statement, but that's also valuable given your vast experience. My old Quest had better aerodynamics due to the closed wheel arches, but could not be driven as fast as my DF mainly due to lack of stiffness and its weight. M9 combines a lot of benefits, except for the large turning circle, so it seems to me.
df xl is better, there are now wide pants available put those on your df and see the diffence
Nice video.
Tbh I think there are at least two more downsides, which I discovered on the recent Spezi.
Entering is quite a hassle (which might be aleviated as soon as you get used to it), I had to step on the seat to get in. As an all weather commuter I wouldn't like that at all.
Secondly, adjusting it to a different rider is said to be anything but easy. Which is sad, because I would like to have my wife test it as well (if she may like doing so).
So I will test the Bülk first, which has no drawbacks like these, maybe others instead.
How do you think the M9 compares to the Bülk?
I’ve owned both a W9 (smaller version of M9) and Bülk. The seat system of the Bülk and the longer opening are very nice to have. The only potential disadvantage is that the Bülk is a bit narrower, 5cm less than M9 at the shoulders, and 4cm less between the front wheel wells. For most people this is no problem, but there are a few people who do not like the tighter space.
The new Bülk Urban is another nice option. At higher speeds it is not quite as efficient as the regular Bülk, but most of us do not ride at those speeds. The Urban has the same space between the front wheel wells as the M9.
All of these options handle extremely well in wind and at higher speeds. All are very stiff. The Bülk MK1 is the fastest of the options, but the difference is not huge. Most important is to choose the model that suits you best. Since you wish to let your wife try it, then the Bülk mk1 or Urban would likely be the best choice for you.
I have spent only about 2 hours riding the Bülk, not enough for a fair judgement. My thighs were rubbing on the wheel houses, that was a major downside for me.
Actually, I prefer the seat position and mount on the M9 -- it is the stiffest seat in any Velomobile I have ridden over the past 15 years. Adjusting the seat may be easier in the Bülk, but it is also less firm -- my two buddies riding Bülks are not enthusiastic about the seat and the seat mount.
Stepping in isn't among the negatives for the Bülk -- try to get into an Alpha 7, a DF, or a Snoek L, and you will like the fairly large manhole of the 9-series.
I'm not selling velomobiles, thus I do not have any commercial interests in promoting a specific model.
@@rhein228 if your friends have early Bülks, I believe the seat has been stiffened at a critical point since then. My seat is just as solid as the one in the W9 I had.
@@rhein228 That's why I asked you in the first place. And thank you for the reply.
I was a salesman myself. Never ask salesmen for a recommendation, that's what I learned.
I guess I have to reconsider one or two Things.
If the riding experience and luggage space are so much better at the cost of entering and being versatile for everybody, then I will have to ask myself which one of these aspects is more about the whole point of a velomobile.
@@mnveloguyDu hast einen Kastrierten Sitz. Falsch eingebaut worden von ihrem Händler. Händler sind aber auch Sie. Ihr W9 ist Prototypenstatus und hätte so nicht verkauft werden dürfen. Ein Neuer Velomobiltyp muss immer zwingend zuerst zu mir (Das ist vertraglich so). Danach wird das SerienVm daran überarbeitet. Sie sind extrem geschäftsschädigend für uns, versuchen andere Velomobile besser das stehen zu lassen. Sie haben aber kein Serien Vm. Berghoch sind aktuelle Alpha9 Berghoch deutlich überlegen. Beim Wind ist das M9 jedem anderen Vm Haushoch überlegen. In einem W9 am runden Rand anzustoßen sollte unmöglich sein bis man sich überschlägt. Der Rand vom W9 ist höher dem M9. Beim W9s nochmals 1,5cm höher. Wer hier Probleme hat sollte mit seinem Händler ernsthaft reden.
Keine Angst ich werde auf den Ben den Denunziant nicht weiter eingehen
Ein M9 mit Überdacht ist ganz klar so schnell wie ein Bülk. Beide VM gehören nicht zu der schnellsten Klasse.
oh hey, mit welchem schönen proggi hast du denn das Overlay in das Video gezaubert?
Kein besonderes Kunststück, das lässt sich mit der kostenlosen Garmin VIRB Edit Software individuell gestalten. Ich bin da eher am minimalistischen Ende des Spektrums
@@rhein228 oh gut, wenn es bei Dir noch läuft, bei mir gehts nicht mehr. Danke trotzdem 😊
These will never fly here in good ole USA. Way to expensive for what you get. Plus how will I be able to get this unit into my truck? And I am 6'6" tall. Not made for us big people in America. Save 10K and buy an American made Ebike that will run circles around these things.
That may be so. You’ll miss a very unique experience that’s very different from riding a „normal“ bicycle. Also, don’t compare that to e-assisted bikes. This does not have and does not need a motor.
Um yeah, there's a lot of ppl in the US that have these. They are starting to get popular here.