SpaceX Is Adding Another Heat Shield Layer To Starship
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- In the few days since Starship’s fourth flight test, we’ve received snippets of information from Musk along with the company highlighting new details and future plans. Most recently, during a livestream Musk was hosting, he talked about plans to add an additional ablative material under all of Starship’s existing heat shield tiles.
The goal here would be to add extra protection in the event that a tile breaks or falls off during any process in the launch. If that wasn’t enough, he also estimated the next launch would happen in about a month from now. Here I will go more in-depth into the highlights of what Musk said, work on the heat shield, preparing for reentry, and more.
For more space-related content check out - thespacebucket.com/
Credit:
SpaceX - / spacex
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:34 - Heat Shield Upgrade
4:05 - Launch In 1 Month 
Наука
You should tag animations with "ANIMATION", especially for people who are just now taking an interest, as the animations look real and the actual footage looks unreal.
This is so trueeee
AGREE TOTALLY
Generally agree with your comment. Very few animations on this video, short ones at 5:11 and 6:20, the 'catch ' at 7:01. The rest are actual, though are a montage from the several flights and tests. The real video is amazing.
@@randyk5443 1 Someone new to checking out Starship could easily assume these things have already happened. 2 These things soon will happen, making it confusing WHEN they happened. Easy to add text.
To me the real images look real to me and the CGI while good does not quite look real. Other channels do the same thing mixing real and CGI images and I also don't see them putting up any identifiers to separate the 2.
The heat shield seems like the greatest barrier to rapid and full reusability. If anyone can solve this problem, though, it's SpaceX!
It is a reusability shield 😅
Totally agree. I know that the solution can’t be this simple but wouldn’t larger tiles be easier to attach as they would have more attachment points also machine the tiles so that they are beveled to hold each other in place like a T&G floor
@@conard5381larger heat shields means that if one fails there will be a greater risk due to larger surface area exposed
@@beans197 also it lowers manufacturability, process accuracy and consistency. Also Its easier to bin smaller tiles that bigger ones, beacuse u dont waste so much per tile.
We can now use lasers to convert carbon fiber into diamond fiber. I would imagine a diamond fiber reinforced ceramic tile would provide additional strength and temperature resistance without adding weight. In fact I think you could reduce weight.
The one thing that SpaceX is amazing at is the project management of their construction teams. That being said I think it's incredibly risky for them to attempt a super heavy booster catch until they have the second launch tower built.
It is definitely a questionable move. The new tower is not that far out time wise and is further away from the tank farm and could potentially have a better chopstick mechanism.
I think eventually they will have to take the weight hit and put landing legs on the booster, and land it on a pad mounted on rails (to bring it back to the launch pad for quick turnaround). It will also prevent more damage that could happen as the booster tries to hover while they try to catch it.
I just can't see their landing as precise enough to catch anything. And if something goes wrong, which is likely given their "no part is the best part" ethos, which works directly against the redundancy required for reliability, they will destroy a VERY EXPENSIVE Stage 0 launch tower. Off loading the weight penalty to the pad is a swell idea, but it makes a lost tower much more of disaster than if you lose a single booster.
@@user-qq9ir3vx5c
It is just not the issue of being precise enough as you said but the bigger issue is (as you said), can it be done reliably. It is going to be exciting to see how things play out.
It is quite risk but, nothing SpaceX cant fix, REMEMBER the first launch, the concrete crater, thought unfixable. and it was fixed beyond thought and we never imagined a launch without a flame diverter, but that worked too.
@@nischaysoni502
Flame diverter trench is very important to deflect the massive amount of acoustic energy away from the booster and starship. Hopefully the booster is tall enough to keep the starship tiles safe. But watch the launches and you can see huge acoustic waves reflect off of the flat surface. The configuration of the water deluge does not seem to be particularly effective with this issue.
The QD arm needs to rotate out of the exhaust. It's just too much.
TheSpaceBucket, amazing video keep it up dude
Those metal sparks at reentry could been the metal pins securing the tiles.
The very first sparcs were probobly the rough edges of the tiles being knocked of which is expected and fine dont know what caused the blue flame though
There's no doubt that SpaceX will figure it out, thanks for the update!🚀🚀👍👍
It would be insane if they launched in a month. I’m betting on 2.5 months realistically.
There's no FAA investigation this time and the next booster and ship are basically complete, so I doubt it'll take that long. Maybe 2 months, hopefully less.
@@Astra2 i am just thinking, the data this time is massive, and they might wanna make some heavy changes to starship heatshield maybe, they can definetly launch early but wont be worth it without a better chance.
@@nischaysoni502realistically they wont replace a ships entire heatshield with a temporary solution they might just want to test other things for now
SpaceX will iterate on the heat shield and eventually have a robust system in place. Starship v2 will specifically move the flaps to avoid the hinge issue.
Thanks for the update!
Good report. Thank you!
this reentry was at barely orbital speeds imagine how intense it would be at translunar or transmartian reentry speeds
very good point!
They probably would do some kind of braking before hitting the atmosphere
I suspect they'd fire retro-rockets to slow the craft down. As I think about this for the future, I can't get past the risk of damage to the engines as it settles onto the Martian surface. Remember all the engine damage when the first Starship was launched from Star Base before they implemented the water deluge?
Only as much heat as there is friction. With significantly less atmo friction, would the heat be the same for any planet’s reentry? As long as the speed is unchecked by boosters of course.
I’m assuming a typical re-entry speed might be slower in the future. Sure starship is gigantic in comparison to other spacecraft but I would figure they’d be able to make a slower approach.
TheSpaceBucket, You're so talented! I had to hit the like button!
Every Starship advancement is a nail in every other rocket's (F9 an FH excepted) coffin. The corporate efficiency is actually beautiful to watch!
I categorically disagree. Not every customer wants to use starship to launch their satellite or whatever it may be. ULA has contracts for flights through to 2030. Besides that it will be a couple years before Starship is reliable enough to regularly fly missions. Even longer to fly people.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 His point still stands. This new class of rocket will soon make everything that isn't fully and rapidly reusable obsolete.
By the end of the first half of this century, expendable rockets will be a thing of the past.
@@SebastianWellsTL Well on that point Mr Wells I have agree. I was too caught up in thinking near term. My bad!
@SebastianWellsTL realistically we can expect Starship to be replaced by 2050.
Ariane 5 first flew in 1996, had multuple upgrades until 2008, retired the final version in 2018 and will be replaced with Ariane 6 in 2024.
If Starship is successful, I'd expect it to be similar, getting upgrades (V2, V3, etc.) over the next 10 years or so, and being retired/ replaced sometime in the 2050's.
@@plainText384
I think you are right. However, similarly to the Soyuz family of rockets (lasting over 60 years) Starship, as it moves on to V2, V3, and perhaps V4 down the road, has the potential to last a very long time.
Tanks for the content !
So they are nearly at par with the space shuttle… tiles were the weakness there too
Your channel has the best updates, thanks!
TheSpaceBucket, every video is a treat, keep them coming
Cant wait to see this!
Thanks for the episode!
Perhaps the new ablative material also dampens some of the vibration transmitted to the tiles.
That is what I thought the primary purpose of the white material that was being underlaid for sometime now. The “tile attachment system” needs more vibrational damping (not dampening) and a mechanism to provide more compliance (but tripod pining is probably still problematic).
Maybe, but I wouldn't think so. Adding in a requirement to prevent burn through doesn't seem likely to also increase the dampening provided by the existing rock wool material.
Also may provide flexibility or expansion joint from cryogenic chill...
Bayonet clips are compliant 2 axises. But not so much in z AXIS. So i agree to extend with those who think felt underneath provide support but not soo much dampening as we wanna believe. Furthermore it provides pressure on tiles and pushed tiles OUTWARD into bayonet clip.
@@richdobbs6595
Do you know that it is “rock wool”? I don’t know what it is but assumed that it was a quilted silica fabric that was used on the space shuttle. If anyone has information on this it would be helpful. The material can provide both heat protection and a form of damping (indirectly) and cushioning.
Sounds like some sort of tile interlocking might be called for. Instead of pure hexagon tiles.
Most likely the expansion and contraction is why this has not been implemented.
@@AlmostDailyRideralso if you lose one you lose a whole area of them that we're all connected.
Thank you for straight up info, well presented
When I first learned about the heat shield they were going to use, I was pretty skeptical considering the history of the space shuttle and its heat shield tiles. At this point, I'm still not convinced but, I was glad to see that it did perform as well as it did on IFT4. I'm still not completely convinced though.
We will have to wait and see how it progresses and the impact it has on the space industry.
It would be great to create a paint on ablative.
I like the format, straight to the facts.
Sounds like a good idea but im wondering how much heavier it will make the ship.
Maybe with that "safety net", the tiles can be thinner hence lighter?
There is already another layer under the tiles (white stuff). The change to an ablative layer would have very litte effect on the weight.
There was a thinner tile next to the missing tiles. I thought that could be a lighter tile but that could have been the secondary oblative tile.
I am amazed SpaceX managed to get booster landing in the sea.
I hope they go back to active cooling. Seemed so cool
Love your videos, any way you could add background music to your videos?
Where can i find yesterday's steam?
That active cooling is looking like better and better alternative.
I wish SpaceX would test a section of the heat shield with a transpirational cooling area to see if their original idea has merit. Those tiles must add a lot of weight. And if they have to add an ablator behind the tiles, that's even more weight. So the question becomes, would the fuel/weight penalty for using transpirational cooling be more than the penalty of a conventional heat shield? And would the holes required to expel the cooling vapor be too prone to clogging to be reliable?
If that method proved effective, I think it would be much better for reusability than heat shield tiles. The tiles on the Space Shuttle were its most maintenance intensive area that slowed down reuse and increased costs massively.
I hate to see SpaceX be forced down that road. They chose stainless steel for its cost, ease of manufacture, and durability. It is time to try to maximize its utility by trying the transpirational cooling method.
Great channel indeed. Just the news, no bs. Super
YOUR TRULEY NUMBER 1 LOVE THE SPACEBUCKET!!!!!
the flap seemed to survive ok for most of the reentry, including the highest temperature part, but then start falling when the speed and temperature were both lower, must have been a cumulative effect of the whole process?
Wonder how much weight that will add.
I kinda like the idea of a composite UO2 and BeO tile that would be good to 5000° F.
Ablative sounds right. It's just a good tradeoff in terms of extra weight of ablative material vs fuel. Temps for that could be much cooler than super high temp tiles constantly being heated.
The thing is gonna be a little heavier than it already is? Amazing...
Go go go !
Well from the launch video the tiles from the flap didn’t really start coming off until the high pressures of the atmosphere not the hottest zone with the plasma build up. Yet, the heat most likely weakened the shield and how it’s mounted. So adding a flexible carbon fibre skin layer under the shield would probably help. They could wrap it over the flaps but maintain mobility flap control.
Epic! 😎
Making 2 sets of steering flaps slightly off-aligned at the back. So when re-entry, the ones most located at the back of the ship stay more out of the heath... and it provides an extra safety for when one set fails out i think.
More cameras and a daylight landing would be helpful, too.
Yeah, I’d love to see the view from the aircraft that was surveilling the entry. Also, Elon mentioned that SpaceX had 16 realtime Starlink feeds in addition to those for the public. Data Data Data
Please correct me if I am wrong: after the 3rd launch I said that the structural changes in Starship body were necessary. I described what changes. I expected that the 4th flight will be delayed because of it. Nothing like this happened, and now we hear about structural changes in Starship's body. Is it true?
Real dragons have scales for a reason.
How about attaching the tile together like a belt that way you can make it as long or short as you want if one comes loose it still connected to the other ones
Because they won't account for expansion and contraction of the tiles which can occur in all directions.
A shielded hinge deflector.
Is it possible to also add a magnetic field around the starship for more redundancy against ionized gases .
Surely the left front flap also got destroyed as we did not see any more rear facing views from the camera attached to the left front flap as the right front was burning.
It may have been damaged but the flaps were able to create lift and position the craft upright for the landing. It’s good that they are using SS because aluminum wouldn’t have survived such conditions.
Elon said they are gonna put on a twice as strong heat shield, was that ment on the hole ship or just on weakpoints?
I'm starting to think that Musk is serious about reusing the Starships. Let's Go!!!
And the front fins are the "stops" for the mechazilla catch recovery. You weaken or lose the fin, what is the alternate recovery for Starship? A direct landing?
The catch points on the ship are BELOW the forward flaps. It is not the flaps themselves. They are not sturdy enough.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 My oversimplification. We haven't been told yet if it was the flap or the flap seal that failed. A failure of the flap seal could lead to plasma degrading not just the flap but the body of the ship itself. I'm just curious what the contingency is if either the sensors tell SpaceX that there is damage at the catchment points or if there is some malfunction of the chopsticks, that's all.
@@billgallaher339 That is surely a detail about the catch that I had not thought about. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
May be the flaps should be made of matrix ceramic instead of stainless steel in the critical areas.
Seems that they need some kind of "pod" around the flap hinges that can be jettisoned when they get through all that re-entry heat. The hinges appear to be vulnerable. As stated the Starship is to be quickly turned around and re-used.
That would not be reusable. They simply moved the flaps leeward so the joints are not in the plasma stream. This possible failure was predicted before the flight.
Multiple heat shield is best solution, tiles stick together or separate ss plate with tile ( wherever require) recommended
Have they flown the big booster by it self ? If so never seen it
It'd be cool if they could just spray paint the heat shield on. Like foam that hardens into a magical substance.
It would be cool, but there is no such substance at this time.
At some point, even though the reusability might not be perfected, Starship will be able to confidently deliver payload to orbit. So it might turn profitable and useable before reusability is achieved, at which point they can take their time to perfect the design while not going at a loss with each launch. Amazing what they’ve already achieved and shown capable of.
HE IS ALWAYS ON TOP OF HIS GAME. HE IS JUST A MASTERPIECE ✨️
wouldnt an ablative layer just make it even more difficult to check for damage or at least slower and more difficult?
The ablative layer would only get damaged if a tile is missing so you'd look for the missing tiles.
@@filonin2 I don't.know. sticking things onto something that ablates feels odd to me. The damage might not even be from heat just general use.
Worse case scenario they would need to remove all the tiles, check the ablative layer and possibly replace it after every flight. I think this is probably just a temporary solution until they figure out a reliable and reusable heatshield design.
Use at least 3-4 seconds scenes before switching to the next.
Make sense & gets rid of the wing flappers.
To solve the problem with the burning flap, SpaceX should attach it on the back of the rocket where there is no abrasion.
Musk said it may be moved to the leeward side.
But the flaps will not be moved until version 2 begins construction which reportedly would be S36.
If they do manage to land the booster, they are then stuck with an old booster on the pad that they then need to dismantle.
I guess the chance to see up close the exact wear on it would be valuable, but it will require quite a bit of dismantling effort afterwards.
Speaking about "safety nets"...
Why not make one giant tile in the shape of the fuselage?
Impossible to make, and attach.
Probably the dragon heat shield ablative material.
It will be interesting to see what their plans are for the Starship portion of the spacecraft - will it be suborbital again, or will they attempt at least one full orbit before landing?
They will likely go into a full (albeit unstable) orbit. Would be interesting to see if they test a payload too.
No point in testing a full orbit. It doesn't provide any value, but would cost more money as they would need fuel for a re-entry burn. The whole point of the sub orbital flight paths is to avoid having to do that re-entry burn.
And will they deploy Starlink satellites?
@@bluesteel8376 Well, in my opinion SpaceX probably doesn't want to do the exact same test. Since so much of the test was a success, they've checked off a lot of boxes on their TODO list, so they question is - what's remaining on that list? As I understand it, the burn they tried to make on the third flight wasn't exactly that successful, so they might still have a burn on their list of stuff to try for the fifth flight.
They will certainly want to test modifications to the heat shield, but is that the only thing they will test? They have so much more to do, it would be a a bit of a waste to not test anything else.
In a now deleted tweet, Musk says how much he enjoyed both Top Gun movies. This has led to some speculation about something he said years ago, that if he ever put a rocket into space he would want to buzz the ISS like Maverick buzzed the tower.
SpaceX has done some impressive things but I know if I were an astronaut on the ISS I would get worried if I looked at the window and saw a Starship looking like it was headed for impact, even if it ultimately whizzed by with about a hundred yards to spare.
But how would the ablative material get replaced after a tile falls off, though? Seems like it could be an awfully tricky affair.
Dinner plates for Mars!
Overlap the tiles like dragon scales
If the material is ablative, that implies a necessary servicing after every launch, because material is lost in the process of heat dissipation.
The Starship tiles are NOT ablative.
Perhaps your thinking of the new undercoat, it will be ablativevbut it's only in an emergency AFTER tiles fail so it might not have to get serviced at all if no tiles fail
what about a tungsten/titanium alloy in the fin seal gap area it will weld to steel and tungsten has a melt point over 6000 degrees it's heavy but alloyed with titanium would cut weight?
Cost for one would make that option prohibitive!
Titanium is not only more expensive (around 20 times that of steel) but it is extremely hard to work with in welding applications.
Persobally I think they should make a large solid section of heat shield with no small tiles. Make it to fit exactly onto the starships body shape.. Hard to do once.. but once they have a production process for one large solid heat shield they can replace the entire thing fast.
It would crack as it changed temperature thousands of degrees and would be far more expensive as it would require a special giant oven, more difficult to replace, and far more catastrophic if it failed as opposed to a single tile. Terrible idea.
@@filonin2 But arnt the heat shileds used on capsules made like this?
@@tadaaaa952 Those are ablative heat shields which have their own problems. It's true that Space X wants to add an ablative shield under the tiles, but it has not been stated yet if that is for the whole underside or just the especially vulnerable areas. More information is needed to comment further.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 cheers
I mean we knew this. They told us before the last launch. It was one of the test tiles
Did SpaceX say why the engine on the booster shut down?
Which time? A different raptor shut down each of 3 times if memory serves correctly.
I love alll SpaceX, and Tesla. Elon Musk have a special place in my heart. But i still think that BFR would be great as a Space Plane on Second Stage, some modern version of Space Shuttle that still can land on back/stand up on planets/moons without atmosphere.
LETTTTSSSSSSS GOOOOO
They can launch in one month if it’s the booster catch that takes priority over the flap issue. Flap redesign can be tested on land. Can’t it?
The redesign of the flap can only be tested in another suborbital flight test. The biggest change to the flaps in moving them to a more leeward position won't happen until the Version 2 is in production with S36.
Using ablative materials, wont this drastically increase turn around time ?
Yes, but only if a tile is lost, and the ablative material is exposed to high temperatures. It beats burning up on reentry.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Place the Rapid vehicle turn around in the Next Time bucket.
@@mikewallace8087 What on earth does that mean?
2 tons of propellent is not a small amount. I think its actually like 6 tons
less than .2% of the fuel capacity
Another heat shield layer... at the cost of payload, sadly. It'll be interesting to see if they manage to lift a payload.
One weird thing I don't 100% get, is how the booster makes it all the way out (enough to where there's almost 0 gravity - we see the ice just drifting away) and can make it back without heat tiles, yet SS has this issue. Is there another layer/barier of sorts to the atmosphere that ship is really going beyond then plunging back through?
At reentry the ship is moving many times faster that the booster.
Yes, as Leonard noted the ship is traveling at a much faster velocity when it begins to descend back to earth like over 26,000 km/ hr or 17,000mph. Compare that to the booster which is traveling at a maximum of a 3000 km/hr or 2000 mph
I'd be very surprised if they attempt a catch on the next attempt. If they did, they must be quite sure that they can rebuild all the infrastructure there quickly so it doesn't set them back from future launch attempts. Also wonder if the mechazilla arms can handle slight tilts of the rocket as it lands. Wouldn't want the catch to fail because the grid fins snap off because of the tilt.
Elon now is aware that rapid vehicle turnaround is his fantasy .
While his estimates are distant future, current launch rate still looks good when you compare it to for example, Blue Origin.
@@GreyDeathVaccine I am not talking about Blue Origin . Blue Origin is a Bezos tourist play thing.
@@GreyDeathVaccine 1962 President Kennedy announces America's mission to land men on the Moon before the end of the 1960's . Done . Musk dreams big , too BIG.
@@mikewallace8087 The system is still in development, but you haters, always idiocy and always lies. You people are getting increasingly desperate and increasingly pathetic.
The fact that Musk wants to add a secondary heat shield as backup to me is a big deal because he's all about making starship as light as possible so the fact that he wants to add weight I'm thinking they saw something add all of the testing
being able to use starship like a few hours again after launch seems very impossible. But its spaceX what did yoi expect
I think it might be possible if they could prevent tower from getting damaged. then they just use another booster and ship, and launch. if this happens, id say it could be done in the 2030s at least!
@fitnesstop112 but everything has to go perfect. Nothing can get damaged
@@devoof The early commercial airlines also went through a tough time before getting to a place where accidents were rare. There are many other similar examples of technology that needed to be improved for it to be safe. Now because of higher safety standards starship will have to be more reliable and safer before it will be certified for human transport.
Winning
Good content, much repetition!
I always skip the last dozen or so seconds, which is the summary of the episode.
I think the gridfin heatshield was damaged by the chopsticks when it loaded the starship onto the booster on the final time before launch.
Based on what evidence do you make that claim?
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 I am not an engineer or anything, I was watching LabPadre's channel and saw that it was the last contact the gridfin had. so, no evidence, just an observation
@@lukes6868 Thanks for the comment. Sometimes small observations like that can be revealing when combined with other information.
Tin cans in spaaaaace!
SR-71 / A-12 Blackbirds used RENE 41 and Hastelloy X inside it's exhaust nozzle to shield the nozzle's titanium outer structure.
The wing skin and fuselage had fuel cells purged with nitrogen gas. The fuel was the coolant for the structure of the aircraft as well as various system components. This also preheated the fuel prior to engine injection. This prevented heat soaking into the aircraft.
The Space X rocket flaps only need cooling for a short period of time. A tried and true system that flew operationally for nearly 40 years and still holds all the records it broke. That's why Elon Musk gave his child the middle name of "A-12".
i wonder how much a starship recovered from the ocean, would be worth to the right buyer? where did they say it landed again?
The ship would have sunk out of sight in pretty short order. No retrieval is possible. It went down northwest of Australia in the Indian Ocean.
I'm pretty sure they detonate they those Flight termination charges after hit the water.
@@xbk923 There is no evidence of that. Just because the video cut out right before touch down is not a reason to conclude anything.
Maybe make the flaps and hinges out of tungsten or a tungsten-alloy - no need for heat-tiles!
Isnt Starship already way heavier than projected? This additional layer surely wont help.
thats how every rocket project go, nothing goes as projected
More heat material = more weight = less payload = requires more rocket
0:55 If the flap burning up was such an easily-predictable failure, then why didn’t SpaceX predict and account for it?
They did, the flap was repositioned in V2.