@tylerwill5688 riiiiiiight because they invented that technology right after they invented indoor plumbing for the King so he didn't have to use a chamber pot or an out house.
@@Yennefer_Of_Vengerberg--1266Well, now he can't pee at ALL, because his equipment got cooked! That's why he looks so depressed at the end. That, lack of shock absorption in the carriage and he has to go live with the Poors.
What a joke, Aegon is Aegon because of Alicent, he didn't even want to be king but Alicent pushed him to do it, what a fantastic mother. This is some fan fiction level writing.
@@thecringeprince2040 Alicent in the show is non-sensical. The main motivation of the character is to protect her children. That's the reason she wanted to crown Aegon in the first place, because she feared Rhaenyra would kill her sons to secure her throne. So her agreeing to execute Aegon is pure non-sense and stupidity. That's against everything she's done until now
I'm not familiar with the book, but in the show it seems that Alicent is going through an extended character arc - from obedient duty-first girl to a woman protecting her kids to now someone who has been pushed aside from almost every meaningful piece of her life. She isn't now who she was before and I don't think that's a reasonable expectation that she should be otherwise. The book may be different but that doesn't mean it's the only way the story can go. I wouldn't be surprised if she later wavers on these current plans - or if she regrets it if she sticks with them - but I guess we'll find out.
If Alicent isn't the most evil character in the Dance, she's certainly in the top 5. First, she psychologically terrorizes Aegon throughout his youth, feeding his paranoia. Then, she forces him onto that throne despite his unwillingness to do so and he even tries to run away, literally crying before his coronation. Then she doesn't comfort him when his son is beheaded. Then she acts obnoxiously towards him, telling him that they expect nothing from him, while Aegon is already devastated after his son's death and only need support, prompting him to ride Sunfyre into battle, ending up disfigured and unrecognizable. And as if that wasn't horrible enough, she decides to offer him as a sacrifice to their enemy. This MONSTER was willing to let Rhaenyra drag Aegon's burnt and broken body out of his bed and behead him in public. All so she could ride off into the sunset and live her best life, with no consequences for herself. All to clear herself of the war she herself caused. Honestly, I think her betrayal may be worse than Aemond's. Because it wasn't Aemond who forced her onto the throne against her will.
I wish I could show this beauty to every idiotic Alicent apologist. I swear, they act as if they were possessed by the Skibidi toilet internet brain-rot and actually try to justify her when there are 0 excuses.
Aegon is practically blameless, for all his faults. He was literally physically forced to the throne after trying to escape. Its Aemond's head she should want.
She should want HER OWN DAMN HEAD, ALL OF THIS IS LITERALLY HER FAULT (and her father/house). And now she wants to kill her own kid!?!? What the fuck have they done to the story of the dance??? What the fuck is this insane fanfiction??????
@@mercuriology45that’s got nothing to do with him being King lmao. They forced him into it when he didn’t want it and due to that he lost his son and got physically scarred for life.
@@mercuriology45Alicent forced her rapist, abusive, neglectful evil son onto The Throne, knowing he was awful and unsuited. What does that say about her, the woman who raised him (or rather, failed miserably at it)?
Didn't Alicent force Aegon to take the throne in the first place? He straight up told her he wouldn't challenge Rhaenyra's claim and Alicent grabbed his face and yelled that him being alive challenges it, planting fear and doubt in him that festered as the years went by.
Yeah he said he didnt want it, that it was rhanaery who was next. Alicent told him and the others lives would be forfeit if he let her take the throne. Only then did he agree
The manner in which the writers presented this decision so casually makes me think this wasn’t intended as a character flaw but reveals the writer’s own beliefs that Hollywood doesn’t value children. I don’t even think they were trying to send that message. The idea of a mother killing her children to be “free” has become so normal to them they don’t realize how absurd it is to regular people like us.
Now that she knows she cant gain power through her sons, she straight up makes a go at Rhaenyra. 😂 Literally insanely power hungry. Or attempting to bait Rhaenyra maybe.
Alicent is trying her best to color the situation as anything other than she groomed Aegon to usurp the throne- which he didn’t want to do and had to be dragged to the throne kicking and screaming- and then sold him, her other sons, her father, her boyfriend and her brother out to be slaughtered to save her own skin But the writers sure as trying to paint this as some liberated peace loving woman trying to support her bestie.
I hate her. She is also abandoning Daeron and Gwayne, who are normal, likeable people. They were both dragged into this because of her and now they'll pay. I hate her so much, not because she's written that way, but because she's super inconsistent. Weird how she forgets Jaehaerys and never mentions Jaehaera by name, even though they're her grandchildren.
Too be fair she was also groomed by Otto into marrying Viserys when he already knew that Rhaenyra was his favorite child. She was also groomed by Otto to be paranoid of Rhaenyra who didn't initially care about the Greens.
And she has every right to do so. The Greens made her life a living hell just to gain power and now that the situation is turning in to Rhaenyra’s favor with the success of the claiming of Vermithor and Silverwing, they clearly have the upper hand. Alicent knows that The Blacks gained power with that and now she is begging Rhaenyra to spare Aegon, even though he is the poster child for the usurpation of Rhaenyra. He might not have been the one who thought of usurping her yet he still did not think to himself to escape to Dragonstone and leave the rest of the greens. He might not have wanted it at first but he still relished on it afterwards.
It is implied in body language psychology, that when a person is crossing his arms when someone is talking to him. It means he doesn't accept the words. So when Rhaenyra started crossing her arms as Alicent began to talk, I knew how all this is gonna end lol
Like, no wonder Olivia looked so checked out in some of her scenes. And her Time interview is so sad, she's just like "Ho-hum" when talking about HOTD and then lights up when talking about her other projects.
Aegon: I don't want to be king! Alicent:LOL, too bad Aegon: OK, yoy made me king. Now I'm mad no one respects me. Alicent: You see, your supposed to be a puppet. We don't actually want you to rule. Aegon: OK! I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ASKED. ARE YOU HAPPY? Alicent: Kill him
What baffles me is that this scene is portrayed as if they both agree to execute Aegon because he's the devil himself or Joffrey's level of sadistic and the cause of all of their problems when he's literally just a dude
Are you playing stupid? They decide to execute him because that's how the game works. It doesn't have to do anything with his character. There can't be peace in the land with Rhaenyra in charge if Aegon is not dead. They both know that.
He’s a rapist, but alicent forced him in this position and now she just plays with her sons life like it doesn’t mean anything to her. She is also betraying her 3th son she forced into a war
It surely is... The showrunners antagonized the green faction so much, they gave them so much flaws that at this point all fans are expected to root for the blacks. Alicent betrayed everything she was in the first season, she became a promiscuous fraud who is unable to influence any of her children. Now she is ready to betray her sons, her whole family for someone who never even respected her yet calls her friend just because it is appearently unpleasent for her. All the strength, wisdom, discipline and dignity she showed as a mother and as a queen in the first season just perished, and all that remained is that useless, pathetic, whining, yapping excuse of a noblewoman, which is very insulting towards her whole character.
@vitorhuch2289 the writing is questionable indeed, but what does it have to do with current culture? People like Alicent's character are very real, women who like to present themselves a certain way for appearances and preserve a sense of "dignity", only to do all kind of shits behing people's backs. And this was quite common in previous times as well, especially in societies where women weren't allowed to do X or Y things openly, so they would just do it covertly. Alicent is a hypocrite, that's her character, and that’s how many people are and have always been. Her betraying her own kids makes less sense though. Even someone like Cersei wouldn't do that.
@@Predictable1 Look I do not are here to discuss all the details of reality on my view yes exist woman that are like that as have woman who are real looking to have dignity but thats not my point, Alicent is not that, Alicent was a dutyfull and virtuous woman(the virtuous can be argummented because all rhaenyra usurpation but we enter that later) the reason she was mad at rhaenyra was that she was not doing her duty and her job as heir to the throne and was just having bastards and spitting on the duty of heir,thats is commonly stay close to the ruler and learn how they rule, make friendship with powerfull lords and when the time is needed marry one of they, but lets so ignore the fact of the green and everything, so why did they just changed alicent to be a bad character and a hypocrite on the end?? why they just erased all bad things rhaenyra did and was going to do, why they showed rhaenyra looking for peace while she showed be,with excelent reason,Hell mad at alicent and aemond for luke, one of the most fun things on ASOIAF is that all characters,with some few excessions, are grey doing both good things and bad,the show are just passing rhaenyra as a good woman that was robbed, not enphatizing too that she is entitle, nerfing blood and chesse but still making luke's death impactfull,taking out nettle that was going to make rhaenyra do even worse things, taking out all the other Velaryons that she cut the tongues for saying the obvious truth that her sons was bastards, not showing her burning people just because they said that rhaenyra sons was bastards, Making rhaenyra do not attemp to kill her own husband but now in the show they make her help him escape, what make no sense because his death made seasmoke be able to get a new rider, anyway i am a huge fan of ASOIAF and all this changes, nonsense writing and villinazing one team and not making the chracters grey really makes me hate this "Woke' Culture that as i am seeing is changing the universe i like so much and destroying it, as did with the marvel and star wars
What exactly is Alicent choosing between? She could have fled with Aegon, Helaena and Jaehaera without anyone knowing and let everyone kill each other.
Alicent kida forgot that she is the Dowager Queen and has access to quiet a lot of money that could get her out of Kings Landing, while getting out of Kings Landing.
What option is better? Flee with Aegon, Halaena and Jaehera, abandon the rest of your children to the war and live a lifetime expecting a Black supporter to come through the gates and kill you all or give up Aegon and ensure the safety of the rest of your children and lineage as a whole?
yea its so odd, like I was locked in before Rook's Rest but after that battle it just dragged, except for Episode 7 the dragon taming episode. If they wanted to cut the season short, that episode would've been an acceptable finale imo
@hombrejose8164 rooks rest was definitely the highlight of the season by a LONGSHOT. Everything after seemed to drag on and have no interesting things. Also the dialouge was NOT up to standards considering they still have the source material and how amazing the first season was.
@@milnnoroc5157 *Rhaenyra has a miscarriage. Rhaenyra: omg how could Alicent do this better murder her little grandson for revenge. This schlock doesn’t deserve to be defended.
@@thecringeprince2040 And it definitely wasn’t Alicent in the books. She wanted Aegon to kill Aegon III and tried to get Jaherys to do the same. It was Larys and Corleys.
"Ruined", you say? She was never the same from beginning as she's written in the book. Book Alicent and Series Alicent are different characters with different backstories. Book Alicent was evil from the beginning and she was never a friend to Rhae. Seperate book from the series and it won't be confusing anymore. You bookreaders need to be more open to what you see in the show or just stop watching it. Better than comparing everything.
@@thanatos2288 please just stop this isn’t about book readers vs the show. They have made Alicent a floppy inconsistent character with not agency. Like she’s pointless now, everything that comes out of her mouth is laughable and just hypocritical. She’s back and forth every other episode. They’re like completely ignoring the portion where we see her push her children to hate Rhaenyra and her children. She pushes Aegon to want the throne, etc. she’s now acting like the council went behind her back to take Rhaenyra’s throne. Because the writers decided they wanted to try and push for more sympathy for Alicent and force a friendship with her and Rhaenyra. It’s been 15 years+ just give it up no. The dance of dragons is the war between Rhaenyra and her half brother, Aegon. Who did not share any scenes together. Which easily could’ve been done since Rhaenyra lived with him for all his childhood.
@@thanatos2288 Forget the books. Show Alicent at least cared for her Family and House in Season 1. She even stood before a dragon to defend her family. Making her a pathetic coward who wants to let her sons die for her mistakes while she runs off into the sunset certainly ruins her character.
THANK YOU!! 👏 Seriously, I actually liked Alicent as a character throughout Season 1 and the beginning of Season 2 because you understand why she is the way she is. She was a woman forced into a position where she had to marry a man older than herself, produce heirs, raise said heirs, and watch her children be treated inferiorly by her husband due to his unwavering love for his first wife and firstborn. All while having her father constantly remind her that, should her former closest friend sit on the throne, her children would be killed. Season 2 begins fantastically with the repercussions of her faction's actions against Rhaenyra and how her faction returned the favor. She's in a position now where she had no power, but had influence. And now? She's just a caricature of who she was thanks to the writing. Alicent prioritized her children and wanted them to be acknowledged by Viserys before his death because she knew the societal expectations that dictated the kingdom. Now she's willing to sacrifice her eldest son? The one she PUSHED TO RULE? Yeah, that's a no from me. I really hope Season 3 goes back to her complexities as a character because God, she needs a new character arc.
I loved Alicent in season 1 because for all her faults she was actually caring for her childrem in a twisted way... but this character is aimless, and really poorly written. I could imagine a 1000 ways to improve this right away
Only women at the brink of war would sneak around to talk to one another instead of just taking the other hostage and having a greater advantage for the war😂😂😂😂😂
This got super stupid on so many levels that I couldn't have imagined. This isn't season 8 stupid, but it's heading in that direction. This isn't a subplot. This is the main plot. Once Aemond just flat out got away with torching the king in front of everyone, I should just expect more stupid stuff. Just whatever gets them to a point where they can show off the things they want to show. The special effects aren't built around the plot, but the other way around.
@@PgarRex Aegon regains consciousness and tells the King's Guard to arrest Aemond at the next council meeting. Or Cole orders it. Or Alicent tells Cole to order it. Or everyone at the Council picks Alicent for "regent" (dumb writing) since Aemond committed attempted murder on the king with hundreds of witnesses.
@@highwind8124 Aegon is dead if he orders it. Funny enough it was even mentioned in the show if someone didn't realize it. Greens have only 2 fighting dragons and vhagar is likely the much more dangerous one than tessarion. If they lose the war Aegon must die. How could they do anything to Aemond?
Rhaenyra accusing Alicent of defending Aegon... Like you didn't defend your son Lucerys *after he had taken an eye out of another kid*, did you? Or you didn't negate the clearly bastardity of your children, did you?
Even tho rhaenyra’s kid arent perfect, they still ARE FAR LESS WORSE PEOPLE than aegon and aemond who are abusers and killers. Rhaenyra wasnt obviously gonna admit her kids are bastards, and from her perspective it was aemond attacking her children
@@mercuriology45 it still doesn't excuse them to take Aemond's eye for what? Claiming a dragon that chose him? And at that time Rhaenyra demanded to have him interrogated, ie tortured, because he called them bastards. About Aegon and Aemond being rapers and abusers, well, welcome to got world. But noneless, this isn't an excuse to comdemn her all family to extinction, since not only aegon and aemond, but also daeron, otto and gwayne could be killed or sent to the wall
@@mercuriology45 being a illegitimate bastard and usurper of a noble hose is actually worse than being bloodthirsty or a murderer in medieval times. Lucerys being the heir of driftmark is as bad as Tommen being king in Got.
@@georgebadilla5000 Lucerys at least has Velaryon blood-they all have from Alyssa Velaryon was Corlys great-aunt and is their ancestor. Tommen has no realtions to House Baratheon or House Targaryen at all.
This is the stupidest plan ever. She has to convince Helaena to undermine her brother's war efforts. It's a huge decision she has no idea if she'll say yes to. NO ONE listens to Helaena. She can't just walk up and start giving orders. "Who are you?" "Oh, I'm Aegon's wife. Open the gates while the enemy's army is just outside them please." Rhaenyra: "Now that my butt is sitting in this chair, you must all obey my orders now, not Aemond's." Everyone: "Seems reasonable." Alicent is one dumb MFer.
I think this dumb plan of Alicent will be what gets Rhaenyra killed. My assumption is She enters king's landing as per alicent's "plan", and by then Aegon comes back from essos and kills her.
If Alicent does not die screaming in this show I will be immensely disappointed, I do not think I have ever seen a more vile mother in popular fiction than her, she is utterly irredeemable.
@@trenth.7053Not old age, but a fever, she spends the last year of her life alone and confined to her room, she goes mad and starts to talk to herself and cries about her dead children. Very fitting
Grrm is such a coward. That’s it. I literally don’t understand why he hires writers for his stories that are already written. Instead of directing the show himself. I don’t get why he’s so illiterate.
@@draco9513what "SOURCE MATERIAL"?? STOP WHINING LITERALLY EVERY TIME YOU NOTICE A DIFFERENCE, ffs!! The characters are written differently here, dynamics have been different from the very beginning. You're saying as if it's a masterpiece classic literature that cannot be modified at all because it ruins the legacy. Just enjoy the show and let us do the same, or stop watching and move on. Annoying clowns.
Im glad that they all die awful deaths in the book. The show doesnt have the balls to do adapt the story properly. Dont give me the "the book was written by pro green maestar" bs argument. You could choose who to root for. The show has an obvious agenda.
Are... are you kidding me?! Literally the whole reason Alicient turning against Rhaenyra started. Which, from what I saw, was when her father told her that Rhaenyra would do what? KILL HER CHILDREN IF SHE TOOK THE THRONE! I really don't get how Rhaenyra can sit on such a high horse about any of this. Cheating on her husband (even if it was known to him), treating her younger "half" siblings like, absolute trash, and constantly throwing up a big old middle finger to everything Alicient was told was supposed to be law. Truly and honestly, it just blows my mind that she is able to look down on everyone else, when she's no better than most of them. Unpopular opinion, again, I think of she'd been, oh, I don't know, even slightly sisterly towards ANY of them, I don't think they would've ended up so bad. Because even with Alicient poisoning them, they'd have had Rhaenyra to turn to. Instead, those three got, hatred, and constant resentment from their older sister, paranoia and anger from their mother.
Part of the collateral? Daemon caused his death, he doesn’t mean nothing. Rhaenyra’s idiot husband got an innocent 4 year old killed. Rhaenyra’s son isn’t worth Alicent’s son and grandchild
Maybe i can believe that alicent is stupid enough to do this. MAYBE. But theres no way i can believe rhaenyra let her walk away freely when they are already at war. At the very least anyone with half a brain would grab alicent and say we will kill her if aemond doesnt fly far far away with vhagar. Nah just let her walk away and we will take our chances and possibly be killed by vhagar. After seeing this i wouldnt be suprised if rhaenyra lets alicent, aegon and aemond on her small council after she wins. Its too unbelieveable at this point very poor writing.
Aegon is in no way a good person, but I feel sorry for him. He never wanted the crown. He had no ambition for it. His mother forced this on him, and now he'll be sacrificed for her mistakes.
It was too late for Alicent when she thought her psyco son and that ugly lizard had the upper hand, but now magically, after things go sour and after strolling in the woods, she gives up even her first born 🙈🙈🙈 Poor Aegon 😢
At this point this show is truly bias towards Rhaenyra and bad fanfic versus an adaptation. This pure assassination of Alicent’s character who is handing over herself her sons her house and her father to their enemy half sister! Why would Helaena align with her sister whose husband sent assassins who killed her son? They brush over Helaena’s grief and her agony! In what world would Alicent and Rhaenyra align with each other regardless of a childhood friendship. Rhaenyra believes Aemond killed Luke and it’s true. Rhaenyra and Daemon are responsible for the assassination of her 4 year old grandson Jaehaerys. In the books and the show any chance for peace or alliances are off the table once both sides lost two innocents. Once Rhaenyra lost her son Luke, any affection she had for Alicent or desire for peace would be gone! I mean they showed it with that angry face at the end of season 1. Where is her grief, rage, and desire for vengeance? The moment Jaehaerys was killed and Helaena was traumatized and deteriorating mentally is the moment for the Greens peace was also off the table! It isn’t Blacks vs Greens anymore it’s Everyone vs Aemond who is the only one who cares at this point. Alicent wanted the throne for her children for Aegon not just because she is ambitious or brainwashed by dear old daddy but she is fearful that Rhaenyra and/or her supporters like Daemon would feel threatened by her son’s stronger claim and have them killed. Which this scene here proves her point. She may not have been mother of the year in both the book and season 1 of the show but she loved her babies in her own way. She’s never sell them out or allow harm to come to them no matter how much they disappoint her. She stood in front of Aegon when Rhaenys threatened them. She stood up for Aemond (in maybe a too violent way but still) when he was mutilated when no else would. This thing with Alicent and Rhaenyra isn’t this powerful feminist girl boss let’s go Rhaenyra Alicent was wrong all along girls against the patriarchy moment the writers think it is! It’s asinine and makes no sense for both characters. I don’t care anymore about whether or not the maesters who wrote fire and blood were bias. They wrote a story that was far more entertaining and made wayyy more sense. I get tv adaptions are allowed some creative license and they had to make some changes and filler to add more to the show… but for everything right they did this season they did 10-15 things wrong. They got rid of Nettles and gave her plot to a completely different character Rhaena, did very little to add some complexity to Black council, refused to show Rhaenyra’s more nasty qualities to balance her character out, assassinated the characters of Criston and Alicent and Aemond, barely gave Jace a real plot, got rid of Maelor which messes up Helaena’s plot line, ruined Blood and Cheese which is an event that really sets the tone for the war, I could go on and on about the stuff they did wrong. This scene was the worst and I’m incredibly disappointed. Side note: Rhaenyra didn’t believe in eye for an eye for Aemond and Luke so it’s hypocritical to think son for a son like Aegon for Luke. If anything too she already got her son for a son as Jaehaerys was killed. A four year old child who barely had any time to live. So hypocritical Rhaenyra. Two wrongs don’t make a right .
Stop acting as if Rhae is a saint lmao. I'm not with the greens, but was Rhaenyra ever open about her lovers at all? Harwin Strong? She can't admit it to her son, Jace had to talk about it again and again. Both have different levels of ego and lack of courage to face their innermost selves.
@@thanatos2288 Rhaenyra couldn't be open about her lovers because it would have risked their lives. That doesn't make her a hypocrite. Its just survival. She never pretended to be better than anyone else because of fake morals she never held herself to. Alicent acted like Rhaenyra was awful because Rhaenyra didn't tell her about bonking Cole to protect herself and Cole. Alicent literally demolished her whole friendship over it, and now twenty years later she's doing the same thing. Hypocrite.
The war has changed her, she is not the Queen her father chose anymore. This is the nature of war, nobody survives. We are all changed into something grotesque.
I'm convinced that Rhaenyra is going to turn around and betray Alicent instead of killing Aegon considering that Rhaenyra has made it very known and clear that she would never harm her kinfolk.
It's funny that Rhaenyra, having received three extra dragons, completely changed her rhetoric. Now everything she said to Alicent at their first anonymous meeting seems just the bluff of a person who was losing. Now she is strong and resilient again.
You cannot conquer the throne and make peace with the person who was sitting on it. That's NOT how medieval monarchies worked, that's SURELY NOT how it works in Westeros. Also, don't forget all the blood shed because of this.
@@thanatos2288 She'd have to take all three of their heads too. Aegon dies, the claim goes to Aemond. Aemond dies, the claim goes to Daeron. Which is actually right out of the book too when the Greens thought Aegon and Aemond were both dead, they wanted to crown Daeron, but he refused because he thought Aegon was still alive.
Alicent feared rhenyra would behead her truborn sons to protect her claim to the throne and her bastards. This was the reason Alicent ok pushed aegon to ne king, now the deed is done, Lucerys is dead, jahearys is dead, war going on, armies marching at each other, Alicent: let's kill my son's
@@thanatos2288 i don't think otto would offer the lives of his own kids save himself from troubles. ( he might use them but he would never give their lives.) At the very least you must face results of your own actions. But alicunt is trying run away from it. She is the one who rise her kids the way they are.
I haven’t read the books and even I know this scene was a massive disservice to Alicent. She may not be the best mother but I seriously doubt that she would sacrifice ANY of her children for Rhaenyra.
Wait is this about Aegon or Aemond?? Aemond is the one who killed Luke, is the interim king, and has been ousting Alicent from the Council and not listening to her, and I’m sure she knows he’s the one who burnt Aegon. I’m so confused…
@@fireblizard8366her only redeeming quality is "honesty" with Rhaenyra, so chances are it isn't a trap. The real "but, then" is that Alicent doesn't know Aegon is already gone. Because her foot fetishist has a greater moral compass than the mother
lmao i'm so confused by what people in this comment section think a war of succession is about. why wouldn't her goal be to kill aegon? one claimant has to kill the other in order to take the throne. killing jaehaerys, which she didn't order or condone, does nothing because aegon is still on the throne and the living children of the current ruler have priority in the succession.
This useless war only destroys house Targaryens future because in the end the dragons are dead all of the greens are dead and only two of rhaenyras sons survive. So her line continues weakend. The worst thing that has happend Was Alicents marriage to Viserys..
@@thecringeprince2040 Yeah but not by his own mother though you actual m0r0n…plus Rhaenyra’s own garrison betrays her and hands her over to Aegon. So please, miss me with that *“his own men”* shit, acting like Rhaenyra didn’t get served up on a plate by her own men and fed to Sunfyre like a common sheep. *”DrAgOnrIdErS dEaTh”* my ahh…going by that logic every sheep, goat or pig who was ever fed to a dragon had a Dragonriders death.
@@JalimRabeikkkkk Plus they may not even go that route, they've changed that Sunfyre has died so it could be Vahgar before she dies or Rhaenyra will go another way, who knows.
I think it makes perfect sense. Alicent knows her side is beaten and that her son Aemomd is a psycho who would rather burn the world than settle. Alicent is trying to keep her daughter and grandchildren alive. She knows Aegon is broken and will eventually be murdered by Aemond anyway, and that a victorious Aemond will probably kill her, Halaena and Halaena's children eventually. Better to let Aegon go and save the others.
Look, I don't know if I understood this episode, but if I did, Alicent is not choosing to go camping over Aegon. She is choosing Heleana's freedom as well. It's a perfect parallel with Heleana letting the ratcatchers kill her son instead of her daughter. Yes, Alicent doesn't truly love Aegon, that's been hinted from season 1 and perfectly makes sense considering he rapes girls and Alicent was forced to have sex. She has realized that Heleana is the only one of her children that didn't become a monster, knows it's her fault but it's too late, so she just wants to save her. And it's a good specular arc with respect to Rhanerya's one in season 1. Rhanerya's learns that she is too important in her role as queen to have her freedom, Alicent learns that she is useless as Queen, so she is free. What is the problem with the writing?
@@DjCaciassa Alicent clearly cares about Aegon, she showed it multiple times. Standing between him and the dragon to protect him, being horrified about what happened to him at Rook Rest and staying by his bedside to watch over him, calling him an idiot when he asked if she loves him... You have to remember that Aegon is a mama's boy and Alicent, despite her horrible behavior towards him, loves him. So it makes NO SENSE that she would sell him to their ennemies.
@@qcosteur You are right, I meant to say that she has conflicting feelings towards him. My impression was that she herself is not sure if she loves him, because she also deeply despises him. Every scene with the two of them can be interpreted one way or another - yes, she stayed by his bed, but then she left and didn't hear him calling for "mummy". I felt like there was intentionality from the writers to make Alicent's betrayal a surprising but not out-of-the-blue twist. I do think that character motivations were more clear and powerful in season 1, but I don't get all the "bad writing" claims.
@@SrisNayana Don't they have more chances to survive if the war ends now? (Well, at least her brother and Daeron. And she resents Cole. I admit I completely forgot about Cole because he's Cole).
Im not sure what everyone was so upset about. Alicent is a terrible mother, she loves her children but isn’t cut out to be a mom. It’s the exact same thing as Cersei she inadvertently killed her two sons, putting Joffrey on the throne and making him a complete monster and forming many enemies. And killed tommond by killing Margery knowing full well how much she meant to him. Alicent doesn’t want rhanerya to kill aegon and she knows she fucked up big time but just has to accept that in order for rhanerya to take the throne now there’s no possible way to let aegon live she HAS to kill him.
People need to remember that how the book is written you aren’t really supposed like many of them. And most are WAY more unlikable and cruel in the book.
Don't understand why people think this is bad writing -- makes complete sense to me because Alicent has always been a horrible & hypocritical person who makes the worst decisions! And she is the WORST mother! Why is anyone surprised?!
Because while being a bad mother she always protected her children. Literally stepped in front of a dragon for Aegon, tried to cut Lukes eye out for Aemond, put herself between Heleana and the mob of Kings Landing.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz Is there something difficult in understanding that she is giving up Aegon so that she protects the rest of her children? Like what is it that is sooooooooo difficult to understand about that?
@@heavybattle6650 She's the reason Aegon is in that position and she doesn't even argue about Jahaerys when Rhaenyra brings up a son for a son. Don't defend the shitty writing.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz The writing is not shit. You are a just a shit viewer. Aegon is a walking corpse and the Greens are one dragon behind because Aegon is a dumbass who didn't listen to his mother despite all the protection and lessons she taught him. This is obviously Aegon's fault. Alicent provided him with all the protection and wisdom he ever needed and he threw it away. The Son for a Son bit is totally irrelevant. Alicent knows that coming in to make that deal, she would have to concede to Aegon being killed. it is not new information, thats the only way Rhaenyra can take the throne but she tried to walk around it in the hope that Rhaenyra would be merciful. Wake up or pay more attention before you call the writing shitty.
@@heavybattle6650 Literally what was 'the wisdom and protection' she offered him, besides the constant abuse and bitching about how incompetent he is after she forcibly put him on the throne? It’s mediocre writing at best, you just have incredibly shit taste.
I disagree with the notion Rhaenyra would have put any of Alicent's children to death before they usurped her. Whether she loved her brothers and sister or not, she did love Alicent...and she wouldn't have done such a thing to her best-friend. But her brothers rose up against her so she has to quash the rebellion! Thats why she told Alicent "You know this!" Alicent thinks she's matching Rhaenyra's risk in going to King's Landing by going to see her, when it's not even close. If she had only listened once she learned the truth and owned her mistake, Rhaenyra would PROBABLY have shown mercy. Now that so many people have died and Aemond is terrorizing the country, war is the only way. Alicent is only now coming to the realization what her bad and selfish decision making has caused to happen. Alicent should have had this conversation with Rhaenyra immediately after or even right before Viserys died, but she's was so petty and jealous she listened to her father whose plan it was all along to steal Rhaenyra's birthright. Plot guess for season 3 is that even though Alicent told Rhaenyra how she can win with little bloodshed, I think Alicent miscalculated by thinking Aemond is leaving KL. He ain't going nowhere and once Rhaenyra pulls up to accept surrender he will attack, likely leading Rhaenyra to believe Alicent willfully betrayed her... again😕. (Just a guess tho)
As far as anyone knows Rhaenyra had her husband murdered so she could marry her uncle, who's first wife already died in mysterious circumstances. From Alicent's PoV, this was after Rhaenyra's obvious bastard maimed her son, after which Rhaenyra tried to have Aemond tortured ("questioned sharply" means this in the setting). As for Rhaenyra showing mercy, why should she be in a position to do that? This is Westeros, the custom is that sons inherit before daughters. Both Viserys and Jaehaerys benefited from that, and she's seemingly incapable of honouring even the most basic of the traditions that the monarchy rests on. In the show all her children are bastards, either fathered by someone other than her husband or fathered in a bigamous marriage (since Laenor just faked his death). If she shows nothing but contempt for the rules, why should anyone accept her authority at all?
@@eddymercan7487 Can’t the same be said for Aegon who has fathered more bastards than his sister? Aegon showed nothing but contempt for the role his mother and grandfather (Otto) tried to push him in right up until the coronation. Rhaenyra’s authority should have been accepted because her father decreed it (though he never took any action to fortify). It should have been accepted because in all the time Viserys was alive he never once attempted to prepare Aegon to ascend (even Aegon knew that and said as much). When I say mercy, I mean had Alicent owned her willful mistake with misinterpreting Viserys wishes and appealed to Aegon to surrender-like she’s trying to do now; but that would’ve been an extremely long shot on Rhaenyra’s part (Aegon still would’ve needed to answer for the usurpation and Aemond for Luke). Rhaenyra’s ask of Alicent was before most of the damage and bloodshed (Rhaenys’ fall, Aegon’s accident, Aemond’s tirade) so it’s conceivable but still a maybe… a BIG maybe. Idk how fair it is to blame Rhaenyra for her children. I’m going to go back and watch the scenes before her marriage to Laenor. If I’m remembering correctly Viserys and Corlys pushed them into it, she didn’t really have a choice (I think b/c Viserys thought she would have picked Daemon given the choice), so what else was she supposed to do to secure an heir? Did she hold contempt for the rules or was she making the best of a bad situation because she was forced to marry a man that couldn’t/wouldn’t sire her children? That’s also why I think Viserys never really pressed the (bastard) issue. The ‘horse story’ seemed to just be a cover (albeit a thin one😅) to have a rebuttal when people raised the concern to him. I got the sense Viserys could have felt he’d made a mistake in choosing Laenor for her b/c he’d have to eventually have heard the rumors about Laenor and know that he wasn’t the father but what could be done at this point, except to try and shield his daughter and grandsons. He just didn’t do a good job of it IMO. After Rhaenyra proposed to wed Jace to Helaena, that seemed like the wisest move that would have squashed all of this. Rhaenyra’s mindset wasn’t to snuff her siblings out after her ascension. She truly wanted peace and to keep the country together; as evident from her doing everything possible to keep from going to war (going so far as to consider giving up her claim when she met w/ Alicent). Wedding Helaena to Jace could’ve cemented that with Alicent that Rhaenyra only had pure intentions…which she did. Reaffirming (for me at least) that she wouldn’t have tried to get rid of Aegon, Aemond or Halaena, b/c there’d be no need to. (I forget why they rejected the proposal though.)
@@bassfour4 Did Aegon father more bastards than Rhaenyra mothered? In the show, all her children are bastards either conceived by a man other than her husband or in a bigamous marriage since Laenor is alive. Viserys making a declaration is dubious since he got the crown over a woman with a legally stronger claim, at the behest of Jaehaerys who got the crown ahead of Rhaena (his older sister) and Aerea (niece who Maegor made his heir). This goes double as Rhaenyra normally would have inherited after Aegon, Aemond and Daeron, and their children. Stealing their inheritance in defiance of tradition is scandalous and why the Dance even happened. Aegon shouldn't answer to any usurpation charges because he literally hasn't usurped anything. He was crowned first, in accordance with both the traditions of the land and of House Targaryen - sons inherit before daughters. Rhaenyra is the usurper here, on top of her many treasons of passing off bastards as royalty. I'm not blaming her children much for this, mind you, but legally as they grow older they're more and more involved in Rhaenyra's schemes to defraud multiple families of their inheritances. Corlys being cool with it doesn't give him the right to cheat his grandchildren by Laena, or his other relatives of their inheritances. IIRC Rhaenyra was given the choice to marry whoever she liked among the nobility, which was why she did the tour around the 7 Kingdoms. Even if she was pressured into marrying Laenor (who would have been king if Jaehaerys and Viserys hadn't scammed Rhaenys, RIP) that's still to her political advantage since it both unifies their claims, mollifies some of the most powerful vassals they have and prevents a future Dance of Velaryon-Targaryen v Targaryen (assuming the Velaryons kept gathering dragonriders to themselves like Laena, Daemon, Rhaenys and in the future D+L's children). Marrying Jace to Helaena is good for Rhaenyra because it solidifies her cover and gives the Blacks a de-facto hostage from the Greens, but it isn't actually to the Greens' advantage since they lose the ability to make a traditional Targaryen marriage for increased legitimacy, or allying with another House. It doesn't prevent the Dance unless a condition for the marriage is that Rhaenyra withdraws her claim, because that's where the beef is - Aegon is backed by tradition and law, Rhaenyra by Viserys' wishes. It's not (just) personal dislike and animosity. Basically, from what we know of the laws and customs of Westeros Rhaenyra would be close to the bottom of people who inherited the throne regardless of whether Viserys or Rhaenys got the throne; that she's in the running at all is 100% due to Viserys' guilt-induced favouritism. On a personal level she isn't remotely exceptional enough for me personally to feel that Westeros moving closer to absolute monarchy would be worth it. She's reckless and entitled like Aegon, but both of them being bleh doesn't mean she suddenly deserves supreme authority and power IMO
@@eddymercan7487 It’s an ATD then b/c I do believe Viserys had the authority to name his heir (female or not), the same way Jahaerys could have with Rhaenys. I agree that the custom is what wins the day in the earlier decisions of succession’s. If Rhaenys had the stronger claim then; it certainly does go double for Rhaenyra who was the elder of all the children and who was named long before she had her kids. So do you mean to say you don’t agree with Jahaerys naming Viserys over Rhaenys…therefore Rhaenyra herself doesn’t have a legitimate claim? (b/c that’s intriguing)🤔
@@bassfour4 Rhaenys was the daughter of Jaehaerys' oldest son Aemon, Viserys the son of his younger brother Baelon, and both brothers died before Jaehaerys did. As I understand it the line "should" have gone Jaehaerys -> Aemon -> Rhaenys, or if a ruling queen is unacceptable -> Laenor. In other words by custom she shouldn't inherit because she's oldest, but because she's the only child of the original heir. In other words she inherited her father's claim; if she'd had a brother that brother would have inherited ahead of her like how Aegon, Aemond and Daeron traditionally would inherit ahead of first Rhaenyra then Helaena. Aegon's children by Helaena would inherit ahead of any of his siblings, going by this tradition. Going by this Rhaenyra was Viserys' heir when she was an only-child, and would have stayed the heir if Viserys only fathered daughters or bastard sons (who generally don't inherit unless legitimised). However, as soon as he started producing legitimate sons she got kicked down one step of the line with each son, which IIRC was something young Rhaenyra was upset about when her mother was pregnant for the last time - she didn't want to be replaced as heir if she got a brother. Yeah I'm of the opinion that Rhaenys and her heirs were cheated out of their inheritance, because Jaehaerys himself got the throne when the succession was a bit dodgy (and had to settle various legal and religious problems early in his reign before he could start doing his famous reforms and parental dramatics). Going by this precedence Aegon's right to inherit seems crystal clear to me, but honestly if the Velaryons had managed to get more popular support (or had more dragons) I think the Dance would have been fought between Rhaenys and Viserys rather than Aegon and Rhaenyra - maybe Reds vs Blacks, for Meleys vs Balerion?
Alicent is the most useless dumbest character ever. Had there been competent writers she could've been good. But the writers care more about painting her as an eternal victim and pushing this nauseating fanfic level ship that should've been dead a season ago. Its such a shame to waste the actors talents for this bs
Omg just give these mf phones so they don’t have to do this ridiculous sneaking into each others castles to talk
😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
Next season, maybe they'll have Mysaria, Rhaenyra and Alicent sneaking into bed together and they'll call it empowering and an effort for peace.
@tylerwill5688 riiiiiiight because they invented that technology right after they invented indoor plumbing for the King so he didn't have to use a chamber pot or an out house.
@@Yennefer_Of_Vengerberg--1266Well, now he can't pee at ALL, because his equipment got cooked! That's why he looks so depressed at the end.
That, lack of shock absorption in the carriage and he has to go live with the Poors.
What a joke, Aegon is Aegon because of Alicent, he didn't even want to be king but Alicent pushed him to do it, what a fantastic mother. This is some fan fiction level writing.
Yeah screw parental accountability
It’s almost like Allicent is a bad person and a hypocrite. Don’t blame the story for your lack of critical thinking
@@thecringeprince2040only this didn’t happen in the book the show was based off of. This is literally fanfiction.
@@thecringeprince2040 Alicent in the show is non-sensical. The main motivation of the character is to protect her children. That's the reason she wanted to crown Aegon in the first place, because she feared Rhaenyra would kill her sons to secure her throne. So her agreeing to execute Aegon is pure non-sense and stupidity. That's against everything she's done until now
I'm not familiar with the book, but in the show it seems that Alicent is going through an extended character arc - from obedient duty-first girl to a woman protecting her kids to now someone who has been pushed aside from almost every meaningful piece of her life. She isn't now who she was before and I don't think that's a reasonable expectation that she should be otherwise. The book may be different but that doesn't mean it's the only way the story can go. I wouldn't be surprised if she later wavers on these current plans - or if she regrets it if she sticks with them - but I guess we'll find out.
If Alicent isn't the most evil character in the Dance, she's certainly in the top 5.
First, she psychologically terrorizes Aegon throughout his youth, feeding his paranoia. Then, she forces him onto that throne despite his unwillingness to do so and he even tries to run away, literally crying before his coronation.
Then she doesn't comfort him when his son is beheaded. Then she acts obnoxiously towards him, telling him that they expect nothing from him, while Aegon is already devastated after his son's death and only need support, prompting him to ride Sunfyre into battle, ending up disfigured and unrecognizable.
And as if that wasn't horrible enough, she decides to offer him as a sacrifice to their enemy.
This MONSTER was willing to let Rhaenyra drag Aegon's burnt and broken body out of his bed and behead him in public. All so she could ride off into the sunset and live her best life, with no consequences for herself. All to clear herself of the war she herself caused.
Honestly, I think her betrayal may be worse than Aemond's. Because it wasn't Aemond who forced her onto the throne against her will.
This....all of this....I still am so confused how alicent has any fans or defenders.
I wish I could show this beauty to every idiotic Alicent apologist.
I swear, they act as if they were possessed by the Skibidi toilet internet brain-rot and actually try to justify her when there are 0 excuses.
@@Duszkabc she's attractive.
@@Duszka I liked her when she was young. I can't stand her now.
Even Cersei, one of the most evil people in GoT, would never allow this to happen to her child.
Aegon is practically blameless, for all his faults. He was literally physically forced to the throne after trying to escape. Its Aemond's head she should want.
dawg are u forgetting that although he was forced into it he was a rapist and abuser??
@@mercuriology45 buddy they arent fighting this war because hes a rapist and an abuser lmao
She should want HER OWN DAMN HEAD, ALL OF THIS IS LITERALLY HER FAULT (and her father/house).
And now she wants to kill her own kid!?!?
What the fuck have they done to the story of the dance??? What the fuck is this insane fanfiction??????
@@mercuriology45that’s got nothing to do with him being King lmao. They forced him into it when he didn’t want it and due to that he lost his son and got physically scarred for life.
@@mercuriology45Alicent forced her rapist, abusive, neglectful evil son onto The Throne, knowing he was awful and unsuited.
What does that say about her, the woman who raised him (or rather, failed miserably at it)?
Didn't Alicent force Aegon to take the throne in the first place?
He straight up told her he wouldn't challenge Rhaenyra's claim and Alicent grabbed his face and yelled that him being alive challenges it, planting fear and doubt in him that festered as the years went by.
Yeah he said he didnt want it, that it was rhanaery who was next. Alicent told him and the others lives would be forfeit if he let her take the throne. Only then did he agree
And physically and emotionally abused him too.
The manner in which the writers presented this decision so casually makes me think this wasn’t intended as a character flaw but reveals the writer’s own beliefs that Hollywood doesn’t value children. I don’t even think they were trying to send that message. The idea of a mother killing her children to be “free” has become so normal to them they don’t realize how absurd it is to regular people like us.
When she asked Rhaenyra to leave with her. I was like “eh??”
Major Criston Cole 'run away with me to sell oranges' flashback.
Now that she knows she cant gain power through her sons, she straight up makes a go at Rhaenyra. 😂 Literally insanely power hungry. Or attempting to bait Rhaenyra maybe.
Alicent is trying her best to color the situation as anything other than she groomed Aegon to usurp the throne- which he didn’t want to do and had to be dragged to the throne kicking and screaming- and then sold him, her other sons, her father, her boyfriend and her brother out to be slaughtered to save her own skin
But the writers sure as trying to paint this as some liberated peace loving woman trying to support her bestie.
I hate her.
She is also abandoning Daeron and Gwayne, who are normal, likeable people.
They were both dragged into this because of her and now they'll pay.
I hate her so much, not because she's written that way, but because she's super inconsistent.
Weird how she forgets Jaehaerys and never mentions Jaehaera by name, even though they're her grandchildren.
Too be fair she was also groomed by Otto into marrying Viserys when he already knew that Rhaenyra was his favorite child.
She was also groomed by Otto to be paranoid of Rhaenyra who didn't initially care about the Greens.
I like Rhaenyra's posture in this scene, no mercy at all
And she has every right to do so. The Greens made her life a living hell just to gain power and now that the situation is turning in to Rhaenyra’s favor with the success of the claiming of Vermithor and Silverwing, they clearly have the upper hand. Alicent knows that The Blacks gained power with that and now she is begging Rhaenyra to spare Aegon, even though he is the poster child for the usurpation of Rhaenyra. He might not have been the one who thought of usurping her yet he still did not think to himself to escape to Dragonstone and leave the rest of the greens. He might not have wanted it at first but he still relished on it afterwards.
It is implied in body language psychology, that when a person is crossing his arms when someone is talking to him. It means he doesn't accept the words. So when Rhaenyra started crossing her arms as Alicent began to talk, I knew how all this is gonna end lol
Rhaenyra solos that alicent flop
Both rhaenyra and alicent are bad man
This scene is fucking awful, Alicent has been so horribly written this season and this completely ruined what was left of her
Like, no wonder Olivia looked so checked out in some of her scenes. And her Time interview is so sad, she's just like "Ho-hum" when talking about HOTD and then lights up when talking about her other projects.
This is embarrassing writing. This is pathetic
Too many writers spoil the soup
Aegon: I don't want to be king!
Alicent:LOL, too bad
Aegon: OK, yoy made me king. Now I'm mad no one respects me.
Alicent: You see, your supposed to be a puppet. We don't actually want you to rule.
Aegon: OK! I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ASKED. ARE YOU HAPPY?
Alicent: Kill him
😂😂😂😂
Pure evil
Hahaha yeah, Alicent is evil
At this point I hate them both
Who?
What baffles me is that this scene is portrayed as if they both agree to execute Aegon because he's the devil himself or Joffrey's level of sadistic and the cause of all of their problems when he's literally just a dude
He’s a rapist?
Are you playing stupid? They decide to execute him because that's how the game works. It doesn't have to do anything with his character. There can't be peace in the land with Rhaenyra in charge if Aegon is not dead. They both know that.
Just a bro being a bro. Women…
He’s a rapist, but alicent forced him in this position and now she just plays with her sons life like it doesn’t mean anything to her. She is also betraying her 3th son she forced into a war
@@Sherryshinepine women…
„Because I lost my way“
No, Alicent. It’s just a female writer who doesn’t understand aristocratic women.
Imao that’s what you get when you hire people based of gender
@@Sherryshinepine You know that on writing team are women and men, right?
@@filipmaly6603 then they should've been replaced, they clearly suck at adapting from the book
Probably not @@filipmaly6603
Who? Ryan Condal? George R R Martin? Gabe Fonseca? David Hancock? Kevin Lau? Or Ira Parker?
One of the worst scenes of GoT TV universe, not because the actors, but the writing in general, this friendship is the worst thing of the season.
You are muh queen.
Bad puthay.
A son for a son.
It surely is...
The showrunners antagonized the green faction so much, they gave them so much flaws that at this point all fans are expected to root for the blacks.
Alicent betrayed everything she was in the first season, she became a promiscuous fraud who is unable to influence any of her children.
Now she is ready to betray her sons, her whole family for someone who never even respected her yet calls her friend just because it is appearently unpleasent for her.
All the strength, wisdom, discipline and dignity she showed as a mother and as a queen in the first season just perished, and all that remained is that useless, pathetic, whining, yapping excuse of a noblewoman, which is very insulting towards her whole character.
@@A_divisive_scarecrow totally agreed, man i hate so much the woke culture now, they are just destroying my favorite saga adaptation
@vitorhuch2289 the writing is questionable indeed, but what does it have to do with current culture? People like Alicent's character are very real, women who like to present themselves a certain way for appearances and preserve a sense of "dignity", only to do all kind of shits behing people's backs. And this was quite common in previous times as well, especially in societies where women weren't allowed to do X or Y things openly, so they would just do it covertly. Alicent is a hypocrite, that's her character, and that’s how many people are and have always been.
Her betraying her own kids makes less sense though. Even someone like Cersei wouldn't do that.
@@Predictable1 Look I do not are here to discuss all the details of reality on my view yes exist woman that are like that as have woman who are real looking to have dignity but thats not my point, Alicent is not that, Alicent was a dutyfull and virtuous woman(the virtuous can be argummented because all rhaenyra usurpation but we enter that later) the reason she was mad at rhaenyra was that she was not doing her duty and her job as heir to the throne and was just having bastards and spitting on the duty of heir,thats is commonly stay close to the ruler and learn how they rule, make friendship with powerfull lords and when the time is needed marry one of they, but lets so ignore the fact of the green and everything, so why did they just changed alicent to be a bad character and a hypocrite on the end?? why they just erased all bad things rhaenyra did and was going to do, why they showed rhaenyra looking for peace while she showed be,with excelent reason,Hell mad at alicent and aemond for luke, one of the most fun things on ASOIAF is that all characters,with some few excessions, are grey doing both good things and bad,the show are just passing rhaenyra as a good woman that was robbed, not enphatizing too that she is entitle, nerfing blood and chesse but still making luke's death impactfull,taking out nettle that was going to make rhaenyra do even worse things, taking out all the other Velaryons that she cut the tongues for saying the obvious truth that her sons was bastards, not showing her burning people just because they said that rhaenyra sons was bastards, Making rhaenyra do not attemp to kill her own husband but now in the show they make her help him escape, what make no sense because his death made seasmoke be able to get a new rider, anyway i am a huge fan of ASOIAF and all this changes, nonsense writing and villinazing one team and not making the chracters grey really makes me hate this "Woke' Culture that as i am seeing is changing the universe i like so much and destroying it, as did with the marvel and star wars
What exactly is Alicent choosing between? She could have fled with Aegon, Helaena and Jaehaera without anyone knowing and let everyone kill each other.
Alicent kida forgot that she is the Dowager Queen and has access to quiet a lot of money that could get her out of Kings Landing, while getting out of Kings Landing.
What option is better? Flee with Aegon, Halaena and Jaehera, abandon the rest of your children to the war and live a lifetime expecting a Black supporter to come through the gates and kill you all or give up Aegon and ensure the safety of the rest of your children and lineage as a whole?
Alicent forgot she could literally leave any part of the City and head towards coast that isn't under blockade
The showerunners kinda forgot to hire competent screen writers
I'm convinced the later half of this season was written by the first iteration of ChatGPT.
yea its so odd, like I was locked in before Rook's Rest but after that battle it just dragged, except for Episode 7 the dragon taming episode. If they wanted to cut the season short, that episode would've been an acceptable finale imo
@hombrejose8164 rooks rest was definitely the highlight of the season by a LONGSHOT. Everything after seemed to drag on and have no interesting things. Also the dialouge was NOT up to standards considering they still have the source material and how amazing the first season was.
😂 Alicent should've said "Take me. Kill me. Please let go my children."
Nahhh, men are evil, women are perfect. The sun sets in the East, and everyone is blind in Hess town
That's exactly what a mother would say. It actually takes a bit of suspension of disbelief that she didn't do so in this scene.
She’s too selfish to do that
Why is rahenyra and alicent acting like s2 ep 1 didnt happen?
Ep 1 ?
@@ihy2083Yes, a son for a son already happened. Daemon had blood & cheese kill Aegon's kid
@@ihy2083Blood and Cheese
@@gideono.s3459 That was for visenya now it's payment for what happened to Luke
@@milnnoroc5157 *Rhaenyra has a miscarriage.
Rhaenyra: omg how could Alicent do this better murder her little grandson for revenge.
This schlock doesn’t deserve to be defended.
Single dumbest moment in all cinema history
She still cannot take responsibility for what she has done?
Typical Hollywood Strong Woman: Never taking accountability
And this is fanfic in his best...best season ever!!!!!!!
Lol. So true.
You’re delusional. Aegon canonically dies being poisoned, most likely by his allies
@@thecringeprince2040 And it definitely wasn’t Alicent in the books. She wanted Aegon to kill Aegon III and tried to get Jaherys to do the same.
It was Larys and Corleys.
@@ergob3907 again, HOTD is literally a wiki article, that’s the point
@@thecringeprince2040Username checks out 😂
If Book Alicent met Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra said that she'd kill Alicent's sons...💀💀
Daeron lucked out being fostered at Oldtown
the writers have completely ruined Alicent's character god...
"Ruined", you say? She was never the same from beginning as she's written in the book. Book Alicent and Series Alicent are different characters with different backstories. Book Alicent was evil from the beginning and she was never a friend to Rhae. Seperate book from the series and it won't be confusing anymore.
You bookreaders need to be more open to what you see in the show or just stop watching it. Better than comparing everything.
@@thanatos2288 please just stop this isn’t about book readers vs the show. They have made Alicent a floppy inconsistent character with not agency. Like she’s pointless now, everything that comes out of her mouth is laughable and just hypocritical. She’s back and forth every other episode.
They’re like completely ignoring the portion where we see her push her children to hate Rhaenyra and her children. She pushes Aegon to want the throne, etc. she’s now acting like the council went behind her back to take Rhaenyra’s throne. Because the writers decided they wanted to try and push for more sympathy for Alicent and force a friendship with her and Rhaenyra. It’s been 15 years+ just give it up no.
The dance of dragons is the war between Rhaenyra and her half brother, Aegon. Who did not share any scenes together. Which easily could’ve been done since Rhaenyra lived with him for all his childhood.
@@thanatos2288 Forget the books. Show Alicent at least cared for her Family and House in Season 1. She even stood before a dragon to defend her family. Making her a pathetic coward who wants to let her sons die for her mistakes while she runs off into the sunset certainly ruins her character.
THANK YOU!! 👏
Seriously, I actually liked Alicent as a character throughout Season 1 and the beginning of Season 2 because you understand why she is the way she is. She was a woman forced into a position where she had to marry a man older than herself, produce heirs, raise said heirs, and watch her children be treated inferiorly by her husband due to his unwavering love for his first wife and firstborn. All while having her father constantly remind her that, should her former closest friend sit on the throne, her children would be killed.
Season 2 begins fantastically with the repercussions of her faction's actions against Rhaenyra and how her faction returned the favor. She's in a position now where she had no power, but had influence. And now? She's just a caricature of who she was thanks to the writing.
Alicent prioritized her children and wanted them to be acknowledged by Viserys before his death because she knew the societal expectations that dictated the kingdom. Now she's willing to sacrifice her eldest son? The one she PUSHED TO RULE? Yeah, that's a no from me.
I really hope Season 3 goes back to her complexities as a character because God, she needs a new character arc.
I loved Alicent in season 1 because for all her faults she was actually caring for her childrem in a twisted way... but this character is aimless, and really poorly written. I could imagine a 1000 ways to improve this right away
Only women at the brink of war would sneak around to talk to one another instead of just taking the other hostage and having a greater advantage for the war😂😂😂😂😂
The show by women for women
Women on tumblr, maybe. I certainly didn't ask for this bs
This got super stupid on so many levels that I couldn't have imagined. This isn't season 8 stupid, but it's heading in that direction.
This isn't a subplot. This is the main plot.
Once Aemond just flat out got away with torching the king in front of everyone, I should just expect more stupid stuff. Just whatever gets them to a point where they can show off the things they want to show. The special effects aren't built around the plot, but the other way around.
Bang on.
We got *GOT*
"Once Aemond just flat out got away with torching the king in front of everyone" Nobody can do anything to Aemond. what do you mean?
@@PgarRex Aegon regains consciousness and tells the King's Guard to arrest Aemond at the next council meeting.
Or Cole orders it. Or Alicent tells Cole to order it. Or everyone at the Council picks Alicent for "regent" (dumb writing) since Aemond committed attempted murder on the king with hundreds of witnesses.
@@highwind8124 Aegon is dead if he orders it. Funny enough it was even mentioned in the show if someone didn't realize it. Greens have only 2 fighting dragons and vhagar is likely the much more dangerous one than tessarion. If they lose the war Aegon must die. How could they do anything to Aemond?
She should be going for Aemonds head not Aegons. They already killed Aegons child so they want more.
What's funny is that this inadvertantly proves the Greens right too. They would not have been safe with Rhaenyra and her crew ascending.
Rhaenyra accusing Alicent of defending Aegon...
Like you didn't defend your son Lucerys *after he had taken an eye out of another kid*, did you? Or you didn't negate the clearly bastardity of your children, did you?
Even tho rhaenyra’s kid arent perfect, they still ARE FAR LESS WORSE PEOPLE than aegon and aemond who are abusers and killers. Rhaenyra wasnt obviously gonna admit her kids are bastards, and from her perspective it was aemond attacking her children
@@mercuriology45 it still doesn't excuse them to take Aemond's eye for what? Claiming a dragon that chose him? And at that time Rhaenyra demanded to have him interrogated, ie tortured, because he called them bastards.
About Aegon and Aemond being rapers and abusers, well, welcome to got world. But noneless, this isn't an excuse to comdemn her all family to extinction, since not only aegon and aemond, but also daeron, otto and gwayne could be killed or sent to the wall
@@mercuriology45 being a illegitimate bastard and usurper of a noble hose is actually worse than being bloodthirsty or a murderer in medieval times. Lucerys being the heir of driftmark is as bad as Tommen being king in Got.
@@georgebadilla5000 Lucerys at least has Velaryon blood-they all have from Alyssa Velaryon was Corlys great-aunt and is their ancestor. Tommen has no realtions to House Baratheon or House Targaryen at all.
@@TemariNaraannaschatza son of a strong is heir of driftmark ? It ain't right
This is the stupidest plan ever. She has to convince Helaena to undermine her brother's war efforts. It's a huge decision she has no idea if she'll say yes to.
NO ONE listens to Helaena. She can't just walk up and start giving orders.
"Who are you?"
"Oh, I'm Aegon's wife. Open the gates while the enemy's army is just outside them please."
Rhaenyra: "Now that my butt is sitting in this chair, you must all obey my orders now, not Aemond's."
Everyone: "Seems reasonable."
Alicent is one dumb MFer.
Wdym no-one listens to helaena, she's the queen. The only reason no-one has listened to her so far is because she hasn't really given out orders yet
It doesn't matter because the City Watch is still loyal to Daemon. As soon as he flies into Kings Landing on Caraxes the gold cloaks will support him.
I think this dumb plan of Alicent will be what gets Rhaenyra killed. My assumption is She enters king's landing as per alicent's "plan", and by then Aegon comes back from essos and kills her.
@@Gitzi99pretty accurate but not true, they will meet in dragonstone after the fall of Kingslanding from rhenerya
I want helaena to change her mind and agree with aemond.
Season 8 quality dogshit writing. I'm glad I didn't watch season 2 and stopped after season 1.
I am sorry ,both the script and the acting is weak.
Are they discussing brunch menu ??
If Alicent does not die screaming in this show I will be immensely disappointed, I do not think I have ever seen a more vile mother in popular fiction than her, she is utterly irredeemable.
She dies of old age alone with nobody to give a fuck abt her iirc
@@trenth.7053Not old age, but a fever, she spends the last year of her life alone and confined to her room, she goes mad and starts to talk to herself and cries about her dead children.
Very fitting
Grrm is such a coward. That’s it. I literally don’t understand why he hires writers for his stories that are already written. Instead of directing the show himself. I don’t get why he’s so illiterate.
You clearly have no knowledge on how different forms of writing work so maybe keep quiet lil bro
Yes, but GRRM atleast has the right of pushing the producers that the show writers are sullying his books.@@YodaOnABender
@@YodaOnABender you look dumb. JUST STICK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL!!!
@@draco9513what "SOURCE MATERIAL"?? STOP WHINING LITERALLY EVERY TIME YOU NOTICE A DIFFERENCE, ffs!!
The characters are written differently here, dynamics have been different from the very beginning. You're saying as if it's a masterpiece classic literature that cannot be modified at all because it ruins the legacy. Just enjoy the show and let us do the same, or stop watching and move on. Annoying clowns.
Well he did regret after he released some posts
Rhaenyra better not fall for this. Allient is a cornered beast who would do anything to save her children, including luring Rhaneyra to her death
Im glad that they all die awful deaths in the book. The show doesnt have the balls to do adapt the story properly.
Dont give me the "the book was written by pro green maestar" bs argument.
You could choose who to root for. The show has an obvious agenda.
Rhaenyra was like: “Rhaenyra the conqueror has a nice ring to it..”
Are... are you kidding me?! Literally the whole reason Alicient turning against Rhaenyra started. Which, from what I saw, was when her father told her that Rhaenyra would do what? KILL HER CHILDREN IF SHE TOOK THE THRONE! I really don't get how Rhaenyra can sit on such a high horse about any of this. Cheating on her husband (even if it was known to him), treating her younger "half" siblings like, absolute trash, and constantly throwing up a big old middle finger to everything Alicient was told was supposed to be law. Truly and honestly, it just blows my mind that she is able to look down on everyone else, when she's no better than most of them. Unpopular opinion, again, I think of she'd been, oh, I don't know, even slightly sisterly towards ANY of them, I don't think they would've ended up so bad. Because even with Alicient poisoning them, they'd have had Rhaenyra to turn to. Instead, those three got, hatred, and constant resentment from their older sister, paranoia and anger from their mother.
Say what you will about Alicent but she always wanted to protect her children, this talk of hers with Rhaenyra is simply absurd.
At least it took more than two seasons for Game Of Thrones to shit the bed.
Seven *hells.*
Whao....was fanfic is better than this.
You’re lying to yourself
Has DnD returned to write the end of this season
She will have to take aegon,aemond AND daeron's head. There is no going back now
When Heleana said I forgive you a few episodes back, is this what she was talking about?
What the hell did I just watch
Why does everyone keep bringing up Jaehaerys? after his death, the “son for a son” debt still wasn’t paid, he was just part of the collateral.
Part of the collateral? Daemon caused his death, he doesn’t mean nothing. Rhaenyra’s idiot husband got an innocent 4 year old killed. Rhaenyra’s son isn’t worth Alicent’s son and grandchild
Lucerys ain’t worth all that
His life was taken nevertheless. An innocent little boy. If you think that wasn't enough to pay the debt, you're just vile and bloodthirsty
@@Milothedog706 Technically Jaehaerys being Aegons heir would make him worth more.
People bring it up because Rhaenyra is a hypocrite. She wants all her brothes die so that she can have the claim, debt was an excuse.
This is a certified woman moment ☕️ isn’t it? Aegon didn’t want to be king it was Alicent the one who put him there. What the hell?
This may get back to Aegon, another reason to burn Rhaenyra with his dragon.
Maybe i can believe that alicent is stupid enough to do this. MAYBE. But theres no way i can believe rhaenyra let her walk away freely when they are already at war. At the very least anyone with half a brain would grab alicent and say we will kill her if aemond doesnt fly far far away with vhagar. Nah just let her walk away and we will take our chances and possibly be killed by vhagar. After seeing this i wouldnt be suprised if rhaenyra lets alicent, aegon and aemond on her small council after she wins. Its too unbelieveable at this point very poor writing.
Aegon is in no way a good person, but I feel sorry for him. He never wanted the crown. He had no ambition for it. His mother forced this on him, and now he'll be sacrificed for her mistakes.
It was too late for Alicent when she thought her psyco son and that ugly lizard had the upper hand, but now magically, after things go sour and after strolling in the woods, she gives up even her first born 🙈🙈🙈
Poor Aegon 😢
Aemond solos
At this point this show is truly bias towards Rhaenyra and bad fanfic versus an adaptation.
This pure assassination of Alicent’s character who is handing over herself her sons her house and her father to their enemy half sister! Why would Helaena align with her sister whose husband sent assassins who killed her son? They brush over Helaena’s grief and her agony!
In what world would Alicent and Rhaenyra align with each other regardless of a childhood friendship. Rhaenyra believes Aemond killed Luke and it’s true. Rhaenyra and Daemon are responsible for the assassination of her 4 year old grandson Jaehaerys.
In the books and the show any chance for peace or alliances are off the table once both sides lost two innocents. Once Rhaenyra lost her son Luke, any affection she had for Alicent or desire for peace would be gone! I mean they showed it with that angry face at the end of season 1. Where is her grief, rage, and desire for vengeance?
The moment Jaehaerys was killed and Helaena was traumatized and deteriorating mentally is the moment for the Greens peace was also off the table! It isn’t Blacks vs Greens anymore it’s Everyone vs Aemond who is the only one who cares at this point. Alicent wanted the throne for her children for Aegon not just because she is ambitious or brainwashed by dear old daddy but she is fearful that Rhaenyra and/or her supporters like Daemon would feel threatened by her son’s stronger claim and have them killed. Which this scene here proves her point. She may not have been mother of the year in both the book and season 1 of the show but she loved her babies in her own way. She’s never sell them out or allow harm to come to them no matter how much they disappoint her. She stood in front of Aegon when Rhaenys threatened them. She stood up for Aemond (in maybe a too violent way but still) when he was mutilated when no else would.
This thing with Alicent and Rhaenyra isn’t this powerful feminist girl boss let’s go Rhaenyra Alicent was wrong all along girls against the patriarchy moment the writers think it is! It’s asinine and makes no sense for both characters.
I don’t care anymore about whether or not the maesters who wrote fire and blood were bias. They wrote a story that was far more entertaining and made wayyy more sense. I get tv adaptions are allowed some creative license and they had to make some changes and filler to add more to the show… but for everything right they did this season they did 10-15 things wrong. They got rid of Nettles and gave her plot to a completely different character Rhaena, did very little to add some complexity to Black council, refused to show Rhaenyra’s more nasty qualities to balance her character out, assassinated the characters of Criston and Alicent and Aemond, barely gave Jace a real plot, got rid of Maelor which messes up Helaena’s plot line, ruined Blood and Cheese which is an event that really sets the tone for the war, I could go on and on about the stuff they did wrong.
This scene was the worst and I’m incredibly disappointed.
Side note: Rhaenyra didn’t believe in eye for an eye for Aemond and Luke so it’s hypocritical to think son for a son like Aegon for Luke. If anything too she already got her son for a son as Jaehaerys was killed. A four year old child who barely had any time to live. So hypocritical Rhaenyra. Two wrongs don’t make a right .
Moral: Ego ruins everything.
"Do not judge me for what you yourself has done." Girl she isn't judging you for having sex, she's judging you for being a hypocrite.
Stop acting as if Rhae is a saint lmao. I'm not with the greens, but was Rhaenyra ever open about her lovers at all? Harwin Strong? She can't admit it to her son, Jace had to talk about it again and again.
Both have different levels of ego and lack of courage to face their innermost selves.
@@thanatos2288 Rhaenyra couldn't be open about her lovers because it would have risked their lives. That doesn't make her a hypocrite. Its just survival. She never pretended to be better than anyone else because of fake morals she never held herself to. Alicent acted like Rhaenyra was awful because Rhaenyra didn't tell her about bonking Cole to protect herself and Cole. Alicent literally demolished her whole friendship over it, and now twenty years later she's doing the same thing. Hypocrite.
The war has changed her, she is not the Queen her father chose anymore. This is the nature of war, nobody survives. We are all changed into something grotesque.
I'm convinced that Rhaenyra is going to turn around and betray Alicent instead of killing Aegon considering that Rhaenyra has made it very known and clear that she would never harm her kinfolk.
It's funny that Rhaenyra, having received three extra dragons, completely changed her rhetoric. Now everything she said to Alicent at their first anonymous meeting seems just the bluff of a person who was losing. Now she is strong and resilient again.
Why does Rhaenyra want Aegons head, when it was Aemond, who killed her son?
You cannot conquer the throne and make peace with the person who was sitting on it. That's NOT how medieval monarchies worked, that's SURELY NOT how it works in Westeros.
Also, don't forget all the blood shed because of this.
Because Aegon was named as the King, her right was stolen because of him, and that's why he is her main opponent.
@@thanatos2288 She'd have to take all three of their heads too. Aegon dies, the claim goes to Aemond. Aemond dies, the claim goes to Daeron. Which is actually right out of the book too when the Greens thought Aegon and Aemond were both dead, they wanted to crown Daeron, but he refused because he thought Aegon was still alive.
Alicent feared rhenyra would behead her truborn sons to protect her claim to the throne and her bastards. This was the reason Alicent ok pushed aegon to ne king, now the deed is done, Lucerys is dead, jahearys is dead, war going on, armies marching at each other,
Alicent: let's kill my son's
Alicent is the most evil character of the show.
You misspelled Otto.
@@thanatos2288 i don't think otto would offer the lives of his own kids save himself from troubles. ( he might use them but he would never give their lives.) At the very least you must face results of your own actions. But alicunt is trying run away from it. She is the one who rise her kids the way they are.
She’s gonna pick Aemond obviously not Aegon.
Aemon dies in the God’s Eye, Aegon is poisoned, most likely by his allies
Aegon is only the way that he is because of Alicent
And Viserys.
I haven’t read the books and even I know this scene was a massive disservice to Alicent. She may not be the best mother but I seriously doubt that she would sacrifice ANY of her children for Rhaenyra.
I hope it's trap pr something
Wait is this about Aegon or Aemond?? Aemond is the one who killed Luke, is the interim king, and has been ousting Alicent from the Council and not listening to her, and I’m sure she knows he’s the one who burnt Aegon. I’m so confused…
Alicent has never been a good mother to any of her children . it’s not surprising she gave up aegon 😂
Pls Where the Hell this is going oohhh God 🙄
Nahhh. This is probably a setup from Alicent side
It better be.
@@fireblizard8366her only redeeming quality is "honesty" with Rhaenyra, so chances are it isn't a trap. The real "but, then" is that Alicent doesn't know Aegon is already gone. Because her foot fetishist has a greater moral compass than the mother
Rhaenyra already killed poor Jaehaerys now she wants Aegon. She’s such brat…honestly I’m going to celebrating her death when it comes 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
lmao i'm so confused by what people in this comment section think a war of succession is about. why wouldn't her goal be to kill aegon? one claimant has to kill the other in order to take the throne. killing jaehaerys, which she didn't order or condone, does nothing because aegon is still on the throne and the living children of the current ruler have priority in the succession.
This useless war only destroys house Targaryens future because in the end the dragons are dead all of the greens are dead and only two of rhaenyras sons survive. So her line continues weakend. The worst thing that has happend Was Alicents marriage to Viserys..
Aegon ain’t even a threat…. He don’t want the throne no more….. dude can’t even piss…like he got tore up 😂
Dogwater
What do you even mean. Aegon is canonically poisoned, most likely by his allies
@@thecringeprince2040 Yeah but not by his own mother though you actual m0r0n…plus Rhaenyra’s own garrison betrays her and hands her over to Aegon. So please, miss me with that *“his own men”* shit, acting like Rhaenyra didn’t get served up on a plate by her own men and fed to Sunfyre like a common sheep.
*”DrAgOnrIdErS dEaTh”* my ahh…going by that logic every sheep, goat or pig who was ever fed to a dragon had a Dragonriders death.
@@thecringeprince2040 Yeah, but not like this.
I googled how Rhaenyra died and I wish I hadn't done that.
Game of Thrones already spoiled that in season 3, if i'm not mistaken lol
@@JalimRabeikkkkk Plus they may not even go that route, they've changed that Sunfyre has died so it could be Vahgar before she dies or Rhaenyra will go another way, who knows.
@@Roxifer1no Sunfyre isn’t dead. Aegon thinks he’s dead just like in the books. Sunfyre will make his comeback soon
@@Roxifer1Except Sunfyre didn't die. Cole just said it was injured. Her dying was already established in the main story. Makes no sense to change it.
Oh that's my mistake then :) not aware of all the facts from the book
A son for a son line is one of the worst lines
I don’t care if this scene doesn’t make sense I love seeing Emma and Olivia together
Her father forced her, it was not all Alicent’s fault.
Bookreaders fail to see this perspective.
@@thanatos2288
Yes to some degree, but she continued being pathetic even when he was absent. I guess he has done his magic.
rhaenyra is so gorgeous
Alice rapresent everything wrong in the avarege woman
Seven minutes they spent on this dialogue😵💫 Alicent is the most boring and awful character in this show. Why do they give her so much screen time?
………………😑 What is going on at this point
What a terrible acting....i mean, can't they stop looking like they're about to cry every time a word comes out from their mouths ?
I think it makes perfect sense. Alicent knows her side is beaten and that her son Aemomd is a psycho who would rather burn the world than settle. Alicent is trying to keep her daughter and grandchildren alive. She knows Aegon is broken and will eventually be murdered by Aemond anyway, and that a victorious Aemond will probably kill her, Halaena and Halaena's children eventually. Better to let Aegon go and save the others.
Look, I don't know if I understood this episode, but if I did, Alicent is not choosing to go camping over Aegon. She is choosing Heleana's freedom as well. It's a perfect parallel with Heleana letting the ratcatchers kill her son instead of her daughter. Yes, Alicent doesn't truly love Aegon, that's been hinted from season 1 and perfectly makes sense considering he rapes girls and Alicent was forced to have sex. She has realized that Heleana is the only one of her children that didn't become a monster, knows it's her fault but it's too late, so she just wants to save her.
And it's a good specular arc with respect to Rhanerya's one in season 1. Rhanerya's learns that she is too important in her role as queen to have her freedom, Alicent learns that she is useless as Queen, so she is free.
What is the problem with the writing?
@@DjCaciassa Alicent clearly cares about Aegon, she showed it multiple times.
Standing between him and the dragon to protect him, being horrified about what happened to him at Rook Rest and staying by his bedside to watch over him, calling him an idiot when he asked if she loves him...
You have to remember that Aegon is a mama's boy and Alicent, despite her horrible behavior towards him, loves him. So it makes NO SENSE that she would sell him to their ennemies.
@@qcosteur You are right, I meant to say that she has conflicting feelings towards him. My impression was that she herself is not sure if she loves him, because she also deeply despises him. Every scene with the two of them can be interpreted one way or another - yes, she stayed by his bed, but then she left and didn't hear him calling for "mummy". I felt like there was intentionality from the writers to make Alicent's betrayal a surprising but not out-of-the-blue twist. I do think that character motivations were more clear and powerful in season 1, but I don't get all the "bad writing" claims.
@@DjCaciassawhat about Daeron ? And her brother? And her lover cole?
@@SrisNayana Don't they have more chances to survive if the war ends now? (Well, at least her brother and Daeron. And she resents Cole. I admit I completely forgot about Cole because he's Cole).
@@DjCaciassa they don't have any chance, they will not bend their knees , she must kill them or send them to wall
The stupidest scene of the whole series!!
Im not sure what everyone was so upset about. Alicent is a terrible mother, she loves her children but isn’t cut out to be a mom. It’s the exact same thing as Cersei she inadvertently killed her two sons, putting Joffrey on the throne and making him a complete monster and forming many enemies. And killed tommond by killing Margery knowing full well how much she meant to him. Alicent doesn’t want rhanerya to kill aegon and she knows she fucked up big time but just has to accept that in order for rhanerya to take the throne now there’s no possible way to let aegon live she HAS to kill him.
People need to remember that how the book is written you aren’t really supposed like many of them. And most are WAY more unlikable and cruel in the book.
Don't understand why people think this is bad writing -- makes complete sense to me because Alicent has always been a horrible & hypocritical person who makes the worst decisions! And she is the WORST mother! Why is anyone surprised?!
Because while being a bad mother she always protected her children. Literally stepped in front of a dragon for Aegon, tried to cut Lukes eye out for Aemond, put herself between Heleana and the mob of Kings Landing.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz Is there something difficult in understanding that she is giving up Aegon so that she protects the rest of her children? Like what is it that is sooooooooo difficult to understand about that?
@@heavybattle6650 She's the reason Aegon is in that position and she doesn't even argue about Jahaerys when Rhaenyra brings up a son for a son. Don't defend the shitty writing.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz The writing is not shit. You are a just a shit viewer.
Aegon is a walking corpse and the Greens are one dragon behind because Aegon is a dumbass who didn't listen to his mother despite all the protection and lessons she taught him. This is obviously Aegon's fault. Alicent provided him with all the protection and wisdom he ever needed and he threw it away.
The Son for a Son bit is totally irrelevant. Alicent knows that coming in to make that deal, she would have to concede to Aegon being killed. it is not new information, thats the only way Rhaenyra can take the throne but she tried to walk around it in the hope that Rhaenyra would be merciful. Wake up or pay more attention before you call the writing shitty.
@@heavybattle6650 Literally what was 'the wisdom and protection' she offered him, besides the constant abuse and bitching about how incompetent he is after she forcibly put him on the throne? It’s mediocre writing at best, you just have incredibly shit taste.
This is lesbians
I disagree with the notion Rhaenyra would have put any of Alicent's children to death before they usurped her.
Whether she loved her brothers and sister or not, she did love Alicent...and she wouldn't have done such a thing to her best-friend. But her brothers rose up against her so she has to quash the rebellion! Thats why she told Alicent "You know this!"
Alicent thinks she's matching Rhaenyra's risk in going to King's Landing by going to see her, when it's not even close.
If she had only listened once she learned the truth and owned her mistake, Rhaenyra would PROBABLY have shown mercy. Now that so many people have died and Aemond is terrorizing the country, war is the only way. Alicent is only now coming to the realization what her bad and selfish decision making has caused to happen.
Alicent should have had this conversation with Rhaenyra immediately after or even right before Viserys died, but she's was so petty and jealous she listened to her father whose plan it was all along to steal Rhaenyra's birthright.
Plot guess for season 3 is that even though Alicent told Rhaenyra how she can win with little bloodshed, I think Alicent miscalculated by thinking Aemond is leaving KL. He ain't going nowhere and once Rhaenyra pulls up to accept surrender he will attack, likely leading Rhaenyra to believe Alicent willfully betrayed her... again😕. (Just a guess tho)
As far as anyone knows Rhaenyra had her husband murdered so she could marry her uncle, who's first wife already died in mysterious circumstances. From Alicent's PoV, this was after Rhaenyra's obvious bastard maimed her son, after which Rhaenyra tried to have Aemond tortured ("questioned sharply" means this in the setting).
As for Rhaenyra showing mercy, why should she be in a position to do that? This is Westeros, the custom is that sons inherit before daughters. Both Viserys and Jaehaerys benefited from that, and she's seemingly incapable of honouring even the most basic of the traditions that the monarchy rests on. In the show all her children are bastards, either fathered by someone other than her husband or fathered in a bigamous marriage (since Laenor just faked his death). If she shows nothing but contempt for the rules, why should anyone accept her authority at all?
@@eddymercan7487 Can’t the same be said for Aegon who has fathered more bastards than his sister? Aegon showed nothing but contempt for the role his mother and grandfather (Otto) tried to push him in right up until the coronation. Rhaenyra’s authority should have been accepted because her father decreed it (though he never took any action to fortify). It should have been accepted because in all the time Viserys was alive he never once attempted to prepare Aegon to ascend (even Aegon knew that and said as much).
When I say mercy, I mean had Alicent owned her willful mistake with misinterpreting Viserys wishes and appealed to Aegon to surrender-like she’s trying to do now; but that would’ve been an extremely long shot on Rhaenyra’s part (Aegon still would’ve needed to answer for the usurpation and Aemond for Luke). Rhaenyra’s ask of Alicent was before most of the damage and bloodshed (Rhaenys’ fall, Aegon’s accident, Aemond’s tirade) so it’s conceivable but still a maybe… a BIG maybe.
Idk how fair it is to blame Rhaenyra for her children. I’m going to go back and watch the scenes before her marriage to Laenor. If I’m remembering correctly Viserys and Corlys pushed them into it, she didn’t really have a choice (I think b/c Viserys thought she would have picked Daemon given the choice), so what else was she supposed to do to secure an heir? Did she hold contempt for the rules or was she making the best of a bad situation because she was forced to marry a man that couldn’t/wouldn’t sire her children?
That’s also why I think Viserys never really pressed the (bastard) issue. The ‘horse story’ seemed to just be a cover (albeit a thin one😅) to have a rebuttal when people raised the concern to him. I got the sense Viserys could have felt he’d made a mistake in choosing Laenor for her b/c he’d have to eventually have heard the rumors about Laenor and know that he wasn’t the father but what could be done at this point, except to try and shield his daughter and grandsons. He just didn’t do a good job of it IMO.
After Rhaenyra proposed to wed Jace to Helaena, that seemed like the wisest move that would have squashed all of this. Rhaenyra’s mindset wasn’t to snuff her siblings out after her ascension. She truly wanted peace and to keep the country together; as evident from her doing everything possible to keep from going to war (going so far as to consider giving up her claim when she met w/ Alicent). Wedding Helaena to Jace could’ve cemented that with Alicent that Rhaenyra only had pure intentions…which she did. Reaffirming (for me at least) that she wouldn’t have tried to get rid of Aegon, Aemond or Halaena, b/c there’d be no need to. (I forget why they rejected the proposal though.)
@@bassfour4 Did Aegon father more bastards than Rhaenyra mothered? In the show, all her children are bastards either conceived by a man other than her husband or in a bigamous marriage since Laenor is alive.
Viserys making a declaration is dubious since he got the crown over a woman with a legally stronger claim, at the behest of Jaehaerys who got the crown ahead of Rhaena (his older sister) and Aerea (niece who Maegor made his heir). This goes double as Rhaenyra normally would have inherited after Aegon, Aemond and Daeron, and their children. Stealing their inheritance in defiance of tradition is scandalous and why the Dance even happened.
Aegon shouldn't answer to any usurpation charges because he literally hasn't usurped anything. He was crowned first, in accordance with both the traditions of the land and of House Targaryen - sons inherit before daughters. Rhaenyra is the usurper here, on top of her many treasons of passing off bastards as royalty.
I'm not blaming her children much for this, mind you, but legally as they grow older they're more and more involved in Rhaenyra's schemes to defraud multiple families of their inheritances. Corlys being cool with it doesn't give him the right to cheat his grandchildren by Laena, or his other relatives of their inheritances.
IIRC Rhaenyra was given the choice to marry whoever she liked among the nobility, which was why she did the tour around the 7 Kingdoms. Even if she was pressured into marrying Laenor (who would have been king if Jaehaerys and Viserys hadn't scammed Rhaenys, RIP) that's still to her political advantage since it both unifies their claims, mollifies some of the most powerful vassals they have and prevents a future Dance of Velaryon-Targaryen v Targaryen (assuming the Velaryons kept gathering dragonriders to themselves like Laena, Daemon, Rhaenys and in the future D+L's children).
Marrying Jace to Helaena is good for Rhaenyra because it solidifies her cover and gives the Blacks a de-facto hostage from the Greens, but it isn't actually to the Greens' advantage since they lose the ability to make a traditional Targaryen marriage for increased legitimacy, or allying with another House. It doesn't prevent the Dance unless a condition for the marriage is that Rhaenyra withdraws her claim, because that's where the beef is - Aegon is backed by tradition and law, Rhaenyra by Viserys' wishes. It's not (just) personal dislike and animosity.
Basically, from what we know of the laws and customs of Westeros Rhaenyra would be close to the bottom of people who inherited the throne regardless of whether Viserys or Rhaenys got the throne; that she's in the running at all is 100% due to Viserys' guilt-induced favouritism. On a personal level she isn't remotely exceptional enough for me personally to feel that Westeros moving closer to absolute monarchy would be worth it. She's reckless and entitled like Aegon, but both of them being bleh doesn't mean she suddenly deserves supreme authority and power IMO
@@eddymercan7487 It’s an ATD then b/c I do believe Viserys had the authority to name his heir (female or not), the same way Jahaerys could have with Rhaenys. I agree that the custom is what wins the day in the earlier decisions of succession’s. If Rhaenys had the stronger claim then; it certainly does go double for Rhaenyra who was the elder of all the children and who was named long before she had her kids.
So do you mean to say you don’t agree with Jahaerys naming Viserys over Rhaenys…therefore Rhaenyra herself doesn’t have a legitimate claim? (b/c that’s intriguing)🤔
@@bassfour4 Rhaenys was the daughter of Jaehaerys' oldest son Aemon, Viserys the son of his younger brother Baelon, and both brothers died before Jaehaerys did. As I understand it the line "should" have gone Jaehaerys -> Aemon -> Rhaenys, or if a ruling queen is unacceptable -> Laenor. In other words by custom she shouldn't inherit because she's oldest, but because she's the only child of the original heir. In other words she inherited her father's claim; if she'd had a brother that brother would have inherited ahead of her like how Aegon, Aemond and Daeron traditionally would inherit ahead of first Rhaenyra then Helaena. Aegon's children by Helaena would inherit ahead of any of his siblings, going by this tradition.
Going by this Rhaenyra was Viserys' heir when she was an only-child, and would have stayed the heir if Viserys only fathered daughters or bastard sons (who generally don't inherit unless legitimised). However, as soon as he started producing legitimate sons she got kicked down one step of the line with each son, which IIRC was something young Rhaenyra was upset about when her mother was pregnant for the last time - she didn't want to be replaced as heir if she got a brother.
Yeah I'm of the opinion that Rhaenys and her heirs were cheated out of their inheritance, because Jaehaerys himself got the throne when the succession was a bit dodgy (and had to settle various legal and religious problems early in his reign before he could start doing his famous reforms and parental dramatics). Going by this precedence Aegon's right to inherit seems crystal clear to me, but honestly if the Velaryons had managed to get more popular support (or had more dragons) I think the Dance would have been fought between Rhaenys and Viserys rather than Aegon and Rhaenyra - maybe Reds vs Blacks, for Meleys vs Balerion?
Alicent is the most useless dumbest character ever. Had there been competent writers she could've been good. But the writers care more about painting her as an eternal victim and pushing this nauseating fanfic level ship that should've been dead a season ago. Its such a shame to waste the actors talents for this bs