Understanding the (BIack) Manosphere
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Follow the link to get 1 year of Curiosity Stream curiositystream.com/fdsignifier
After Dissecting and Connecting the manosphere as whole a in the last few months, F.D spins the block to address a group that has been his biggest detractors since he gained any traction on RUclips, which is the B Manosphere. Unlike in the previous two videos, in this video F.D engages directly with the specific figures of the B Manosphere, examines it's fundamental drives, and the forces that shape it.
00:00 Intro/Who Shot ya?
12:01 What is the Black Manosphere?
35:05 What is STME?
53:30 The Worst People on the Internet
1:04:33 They who Shall Not be Named
1:30:49 King of the Simps
2:19:15 Final Thoughts
Feat:
Jay Smooth- @jaysmooth995
Lil Bill- / @lilbilliam
Exposing the Manosphere- / exposethemanosphere
Martin X - @tillwefree
Martin X Black Men Foundation - bmenfoundation.org/
Videos Cited:
Intelexual - • Black Femicide and Int...
Aranock - • The Matrix Is Intrinsi...
Sophie from Mars Vid - • The Matrix Sequels Are...
Tee Noir vid- • Masculinity, Submissio...
![What You Don't Learn In Film School - Shane Stanley [FULL INTERVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VBcQVQ2ZaMI/mqdefault.jpg)
“I personally don't believe in respecting shitty people just because they died, that's how generational curses are born.
If you want respect in death earn that shit while you're alive.”
If I die, let it be known that I also hold myself and others to this same standard.
True.
🎯🎯🎯
When, my friend
Not if🤫
🕊️
This is why we have copycat serial killers rn. The result of glorifying wrong doing.
Yup
What y'all ain't seeing is how hard Unc is going in the paint behind the scenes fighting for a change in the algorithmic biases that seemingly afflict "risky" subjects like this video but ignores the problematic cancers that this video covers. Watch and share this one again
💯
(2:15:24)
That Is not the core value of the “first wave” black manosphere. There are already videos (See Paragraph 3) that cover the aspect of their “core value” that involves these toxically masculine black men seeking to attain a sense of white patriarchal power they feel they deserve but will never have and how that notion is actually fundamentally rooted in rac1sm and is indeed a falsehood (17:20). (18:34) Asserting they are all nothing but misogynists at their core and that the sole purpose of most of their content which you label as ‘black women cringe content’ is to negatively characterize and denigrate black women is entirely untrue. They just fundamentally disagree with the gynocentr1c social order and structures in place that essentially in some way, shape, or form enables the behavior that you see in the black women cringe content.
Ironically, the majority of the clips that you show of the black manosphere is to negatively characterize them. (which to be fair, some of those clips could be rooted in hurt). This would make for good evidence if it wasn’t for the already existing videos and work that has proven that this “core value” that they supposedly have is indeed a falsehood. Their work could be wrong but it won’t be scrutinized because they are all strawmaned as nothing but misogynists at their core, which is the reason why they don’t change because while your point makes sense in theory, the intersectional framework it is based upon has already been falsified by them.
RUclips Dr. T. Hasan Johnson How White Feminist Stole Civil Rights (pt. #2): around the 1:34:30 mark in the video. I personally recommend 1:27:10 to get a little more context but whatever.
DISCLAIMER: I don’t mean to promote them but they literally covered why this notion is untrue and actually surprisingly have rac1st roots (I wish I was joking). Also, No hate whatsoever to F.D. or his community I just genuinely find these critiques and conversations about the manosphere interesting.
I fully see this and I’m eternally grateful! He is really doing The Lords work!
Y'all make prose sound like poetry when you deliver these bits of knowledge. Very inspiring stuff.
You, F.D. and others are making great waves on the platform, bringing to light so many important topics and fighting back against YT’s jacked up algorithm. Ya’ll are doing awesome work!
I am a white woman who teaches at a Black school. Several of my young men talk about Andrew Tate constantly. I'm trying to introduce them to your content so they get another perspective. I know I am not the intended audience but I so deeply appreciate the work you're doing.
How are you presenting the content to your students if you don’t mind me asking
@@aaronlampkin284 I introduce it as an alternative perspective on Black masculinity they may appreciate. I can't make them watch, but when they bring up folks who preach that train of thought, I try to suggest other creators.
@@briannemurdock4183 I like that approach. Another question, do you think the reason your students is drawn to their content is due to lack of Situation Awareness/Critical Thinking?
I am will to bet money you will cause more harm than good to those boys...except they are gay/trans leftist like yourself.
I am curious what damage someone with D Nazi in their name is worried about.
I wholeheartedly thank you for making this video. I dated a self-proclaimed "Alpha" male for over a year. Kevin Samuels was his Lord & Savior and Daddy all in one. I had no knowledge of Red Pill/MGTOW/Manosphere/Black Manosphere/PUA until he introduced me to it. In my mentally abusive relationship, I dove in head first into the red pill ideology and eventually believed the same things. It turned into a toxic obsession to prove to him that I'm not a bad "modern" woman - it had damaging effects on my identity and I've been recovering in therapy.
You and Munecat helped me finally purge this ideology once and for all. I'm crying tears of joy now that it's over. Thank you F.D. Signifier
Would love to know what attracted you to bro in the first place.
Catch the trap:
1. Manosphere (KS) says "act like this to get and keep a beautiful black woman. Trust me it works."
2. Bro takes KS' advice.
3. Bro gets a beautiful black woman (you) and keeps it running for a year.
4. You break up with him after a year claiming it was mentally abusive and are now in therapy.
The problem that many of the Manosphere Bros are having is #3. It shouldn't have worked. It shouldn't have attracted you in the first place, but it did.
We could dismantle the Manosphere in 5 minutes IF step #3 didn't happen but too many men (of all races) will see you with Bro and think "he's doing something right."
This is why the Word "Accountability" keeps getting thrown around in the Manosphere. You did nothing wrong and I feel your pain BUT your actions prove that those men are what you're attracted to. See how this is confusing for men? 😕
@@47shadows76 At the same time, though, the end result is #4. Sure, Kevin's advice give you initial results, but not consistent, stable results as we see. F.D. Signifier has long term results. He has a stable family life. Men who follow KS advice are going to continue to feel the bitterness because women will not want to stay with him. Too many men only see the initial conquest, but are not wise enough to see beyond that. Those men are going to learn the hard way anyway. It doesn't matter whether women catch the bait or not. As they continue to see failure in their relationships and as women get more hip to the manosphere and more educated they will start to act wisely. It's not wise to think this kind of half-baked advice could ever be useful when he has had 2 failed marriages.
What is there to be confused about for men when the end result is that she broke with him in the long run after discovering he was no good? If #3 is the biggest issue of black men (initial attraction), it seems to me that these men are only looking for the initial attraction without thinking long term, if that is the case. Women might be drawn to some men that are no good, but they don't want to stay with them. At the end of the day, women look for stability to raise a family. Men like this talk about "accountability" while ignoring how Eurocentricity has affected black men and women and the way they go about making choices in mates in the first place. You are taking aim at the wrong target or at least the black men that think this way are. And this is why they will continue to miss the mark.
The divestment movement came as a result of women taking accountability for their choices. They changed their target to choose "better". More than likely the girl that got caught up with this man was not a divestor. Now many women are deciding to go towards those who can give them the best results and don't just stop at #3; therefore they have decided not to date black men at all to avoid men like KS. But is that really the answer? Just "choose" better? Neither side really have strong solutions because neither side wants to look inside of themselves. They want to point the finger because it is easier.
@@47shadows76 I don't know why men are confused. Yes, some girls are initially drawn to the types Kevin molded. We actually all are (whether romantically, socially, politically, etc), which was why he was so influential to begin with. Scam artists are charismatic, just like the men that followed the scam artist's style.
Any man who stops at #3 and thought the "bro was doing something right" is a superficial man. The only thing right was the woman chose him. Fine. But the relationship in the end crumbled, so nothing was "right" about it. Neither one of them got what they wanted in the end, and now we're left with two more bitter people in the world. So did Kevin's advice really work for a pro-black strong family unit? No. It only worked for the initial conquest. Unfortunately, too many Black men only value the wooing part, so to them, a Black man is successful once he's GOT the woman, not if he could KEEP her.
Kevin Samuels was probably right about one thing. It seems Black women are attracted to certain types of men and possibly his typecasting does cover a large generalized group of Black women.
But from the woman's experience of dating this man, and by the relationship eventually leading to failure, it appears that the advice only works in gaining the woman's attention. His advice does not help with maintaining relationships in the long term.
If any man is confused, it's because he doesn't value the long term relationship model and only sees that the tricky "bad" guy snatched her based on his good looks and/or money, which shows his inability to see the long-term in any relationship anyway. Granted, women are practical and material in relationships because they're always thinking about children, unlike many men who date. Children require money, that's the truth; that's why women care more about that than good looks. Sex, for women, can equal long-term pregnancies and medical expenses, let alone caring for a child 18+ years. Even birth control COSTS at times. Kevin was good at helping men APPEAR like they could provide, which can appeal to women. And yes, it seems like the guy won the girl.
But he couldn't keep the girl, which means he actually lost.
"Accountability" is pushed in the Manosphere, but why do they want women to be accountable for their choices? What do they want women to be held accountable for and what's the purpose? Okay, so a woman acknowledges she made bad choices in men and is drawn to bad men, what will that do for the Manosphere? And what would be the next step once women do admit they made bad choices in men? That women become even more restrictive of their choices in men? Bet more men in the manosphere will be looked over even more once that happens. And that will make them angrier, won't it?
As was said before, this "accountability" Black women thought of actually lead to the Divesting movement. Black women realized they were choosing the "wrong" men and decided to choose the "right" men. It's just not the men the Manosphere were hoping it would be. It became men who weren't Black, since they are the men at the top of the totem pole in society. So "accountability" really isn't what's needed, is it?
What's really needed is a practical understanding of what each gender needs and WHY. There also needs to be a realistic break-down on how each gender can meet each others' needs in this SYSTEM. Black couples need counseling on how to make compromises. We also need to recognize how some of our "needs" are because we live in a Europeanized society, so we both have to work through systemic issues. When we begin to understand one another and seek to be the best version of ourselves in ANY relationship we go into, that's when each will become responsible for their own actions.
@@47shadows76 Apart from the stuff the people above me have said, I wanna say it does not work in some cases.
They try all the "Game" stuff but women don't take that shit and you know what happens? Those women usually get abused(verbally, physically or sexually). Read plenty of stories on the net like that and heard/seen some stuff in real life too.
Now my personal two cents, I don't like thinking that some women are attracted to those types of dudes because I am a young, lonely dude and it sucks to think that toxic people like those are "ahead" of me in the dating scenario.
But some women like that type of stuff I guess (or most, idk honestly how many women like it, but atleast some don't). Also some I have heard only see the shitty stuff after the relationship has started. In the former, I guess the answer is the same as the answer that FD gave about how to help young men, give them time and little bit of grace if they get a little lost and hopefully they'll start believing that they deserve better partners.
But what helps me cope with this is mostly thinking "Do I wanna be that shitty?" like I can be a little bit shitty and take some of their advice but "Do I wanna be someone who buys into their ideology?" And so far, thank god answer has been a bit "NO!".
That's my two cents. I wrote this cause I have seen many people use similiar lines of thought to blame women for why men are becoming shitty. While it does feed into it, I really don't think it's the biggest reason, because even when women reject them they are still shitty.
BTW I am not saying you were blaming women, but others have done that, so I wanted jump in and put counter argument.
@@vib2119 Bro, I totally agree.
I don't assign blame directly to either party.
However, having listened to the arguments of both the "gynocrats" and the "manosphere", there just seems to be a lot of assumptions and confusion about our selection processes. At least at surface level:
Examples of Repeated Assumptions:
1. BM really prefer and reverence WW.
CynG and other BW content creators really believe this - stating that most of our political pushes for racial equity were simply to "nest beneath the skirts of our non-black preference." They've built a coalition of very smart people backing these deranged anti-black misandrist notions. I'm a modestly successful traditionalist Christian guy whose tall and "speaks well." When I was younger, many bw consistently try to convince me that I really, really wanted ww despite the fact that I only pursued bw. Eventually, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy- which isn't good for the community.
2. BW just want aggressive, domineering, "hood-adjacent" men, who are tall and traffic in a harem of women.
Especially when they're young - they ignore marriage-minded men for fast sex and cheap thrills. Then, after they've been tarnished by these men, they raise their standards - which is fine - but only after trauma, rage, or children are left behind evidenced by how BW consistently (including the OP) refer to blaq men as "no good, broke, dusty, dogs, etc." KS and the rest capitalize on asking "If he was trash, why were you with him?", calling that "accountability" and enflaming his base. This is what many men believe, especially the brainy guys.
^^^Myths like these about what the other wants need to be debunked harshly in both words AND actions is all I'm saying. It doesn't help if our actions on both sides reinforce these myths.
It is emotionally hurtful to be Black sometimes....just like existing and wanting more for black folks is just hard. There's so much going on with us, that it's easy to lose hope.
Problem is: black folk is just as much a product of society as white folk. And there's a lot of us who internalize a whole bunch of negative shit about us. I am so glad I was not a kid when social media really hit it off.
You said exactly what I've been feeling for years. It's exhausting wanting better for black people while being a black person. I find myself being upset that some of our greats lost their life fighting for an ideal and community that seems unattainable. I don't want to give up hope but man sometimes I just want a break
@@blasphimus that's the thing though...you don't have to. It's selfish, yes, but we're not obligated to make the world a better place. Eating, working, paying your bills are all generally self serving. Malcolm X could have said forget it and gone on living his life, maybe even see his kids grow up. I think in general black people overall have felt the need to be in a fight and self sacrificing mode because so much is stacked against us. I'm not advocating for selfishness because I'm a black women. I certainly want better for myself, future generations, and to honor the sacrifices of past generations. However I can acknowledge the fact that black people are not a monolith and individuals don't have to fight for progress. It is in fact a choice.
Same. My hope is pretty much lost. It's exhausting.
Facts.
I'll be honest. I was today years old when I learned about the manosphere. Thank you man. I'm not black or white. I'm a 43 year old asian man from the other side of the world wondering wtf Andrew Tate and Kevin Samuels were doing in my recommends. They seemed very toxic and when my daughter spoke to me about talking to boys in her class about Andrew Tate, it sounded very toxic and dangerous for those young men to be consuming such misogynistic content. I worry about having to engage with these boys if no intervention is taken to correct their course.
I'm a child of the 80s so I came up with some of those same ideas percolating among my peers but never packaged and weaponised and distilled into this destructive culture. I look back at my own attitudes and beliefs and I'm horrified by what I was and still am to an extent but I don't think I would have stood a chance if people like the red pill folk of the manosphere had input into my thought process.
Thank you for the education. I need to sync with my preteen son and try to head off these influences and shape him to be a better human being.
Beautifully written and expressed, all the love and luck and wishes to you and your children while being a parent of developing young vulnerable minds as we too were growing up, yet as you so well said without the dangerous weaponized element we see today.
Thank you so much for this and thank you for recognizing the harm. Much love to you and yours.
Wow. Very thoughtful
43 yr old black man who can completely relate and agree with you. Best wishes on your journey of self improvement
I’m an adult black woman, and in recent years I’ve seen my dad lean into the manosphere/alpha type shit. He’s always had that in him, and his upbringing certainly didn’t help him steer clear, but it’s crazy to me that 50+ year old men can be indoctrinated into this. Especially when they have black daughters who they believe they love. Thanks for making this, I hope it reaches those who need to hear it.
I'm going through the same thing. My dad (53) has been indoctrinated into manosphere and all it's toxic ideologies and open displays this in the way he talks and acts. I've seen him do and say similar things to men like Kevin Samuels and Andrew Tate for a minute. Listening to him say things like that has made me dislike him to a high degree and because he's headstrong, he doesn't believe he's in the wrong for the things he says. I plan on moving out on my own and when I do, I don't really want to be in contact with him when he has that kind of mindset and I know he's not gonna change any time soon. I don't want men like my dad apart of my life. He says he loves me but I can't take his words seriously when he's listening to manosphere podcast and degrading black women while having black daughters and a black wife. It's contradictory and disgusting
well the problem isn't that people who always had the baseline beliefs are more susceptible to this sort of indoctrination, but the main problem is we are all suspectible to getting indoctrinated into this cult. It is a cult. Like all cults, it is also highly controling.. There's a deep dive that's been done on the manosphere community and the incel community. They are cults. it starts with the videos, but then they join the online communities the discords the sub-reddits, the facebook groups.. if they become known, then if they try to leave. They will legitimately receive death threats through the mail, phone, and often in person. It's a full blown harassment campaign...
I know it is 3 months late, but do whatever you can to get your dad out of this before he gets in too deep, starts befriending people in the space etc.. They're a legitimate dangerous cult that our intuitions in the country have still lagged in catching on to them as an actual hate group and cult. the manosphere and incel communities have produced mass shooters over the past decade. the folks in the videos are grifters and demagogues who really walk a dangerous line to make a buck. And will amp people up. Your dad definitely needs to get out of those spaces. even if you gotta reset his algorithm with a new account, and removing cookies and caches from the browser. you gotta do it.
Perhaps your dad has the no sense code. To have a real man be a woman
The way to have a real man is to be a woman.
@@ren_7308How is it toxic please explain. Because it seems like you want your feelings to be Supreme.
Be kind to people and ruthless with systems. I don't feel bad for these men, but mourn who they could have been. Fantastic series, thanks for putting this all together!
just because they don't think like you! wow
@@masb30 huh? They literally said be kind to people and then said they don’t feel bad for men who specifically look down on women. Not because their “views are different” but because, in a world created by them, women would be under their control and of course it’s blatantly wrong to want to control other people. This person didn’t say anything heinous at all. Unless… you think it’s not okay to critique things? If so, more power to you I honestly don’t even know how to argue with that lol.
@@rikkirikki4892 how the heck can listening to someone determine who you can be? This is a bunch of woke liberal canceled bs. If everyone worry about their own business we would be better off.
@@masb30 says the person telling women who to be
@@AnarchyIsLove where did I tell anyone what to do?
I have literally had conversations with my little brother about his phase of listening to these red pill guys, and he said explicitly it was the the emotional support from nonradicalized friends and from me that pulled him away from it. It’s frightening because I have already lost my dad to this ideology and can see how it makes him even more depressed but he doesnt know how to reach out to real people.
What's rich is that many people don't believe that men need emotional support. Apparently, men can left to their own devices, and just be... Fine. 🤦🏿♂️
so true! truly the heart of these communities is preying on vulnerable and insecure men to lure them to being more depressed and hopeless. once they are already in it, they lose the ability to communicate with real people and sink further into it. so many internet communities are like that. social media has made people more and more isolated and these are the results of it.
Community over support. The difference is huge, Dr. Nicole had a point!
Yes this is true! I didn’t expound on it but I have made it my priority to show my brother unconditional love, even when he was learning, and that’s what community is.
@@iluminati but men kinda perpetuated that. We know men need emotional support, but they just brush it off under the guise of “logic.” When women lose interest in a man after he’s emotional or emotionally expressive, it’s because she was fed the same narrative that men don’t cry or talk about their feelings, it’s just a “woman” thing. If more men were honest and open about the emotional aspect of manhood and masculinity, everyone else would *have* to fall on board, or it would at least create a conversation for these things to take place. This is just my observation seeing as I’ve had multiple men ( friends, family, coworkers and men from Internet discussions) tell me that they just aren’t emotional. It’s a lot to unpack and unlearn for both genders.
What's crazy is, I just learned from casual geographic that this "alpha male is on top" mentality that we attribute to wolves isn't actually something wolves do. A typical wolfpack in the wild is made up of a dad wolf, a mom wolf, and all of their kids. The "alpha male" mentality that we think of when it comes to wolf behavior is based on how wolves behave in captivity. Casual geographic smartly pointed out that this mentality 1) would never work in the wild where cooperation is the key to survival, 2) should not be used to describe how wolves behave anymore than the behavior of people in prison should be used to describe how humans behave in general.
L. David Mech tried so hard to correct his "alpa wolf" paper but the alpha thing blew off. i feel bad for him..
However the ideology been there even before him. Women choose by that And men follow that
...I hear that. There's a tendency in a lot of these social... Movements? Commentators? To appeal to naturalism - there's a desire to tie their beliefs to being biologically inherent. There's too much risk of - if they do not, if they admit that it is ideological - that it would involve their potential audience to actually think, reflect and reach their own conclusions.
For example - they talk about Alpha mindsets based on wolves, but they sure as hell don't champion testosterone based off of hyenas.
@@samovarsa2640 ironically I see the same thing being done with spritualism right now.
@@brianao.316 to be honest (even though I confess to not having academically studied it) I think I've seen that in spiritualism for quite some time
I really appreciate the comment about how you can't be pro-black with a contract. Something that always offended me growing up was being seen as "one of the good ones", as if I had cultivated my personality and interests to act as a foil to other black people. I've always lived my life on my own terms, and my autonomy is incredibly important to me, so I have the utmost respect for other people living their lives how they see fit. Black is beautiful because it's so diverse, and I'm not interested in gaining the approval of people who don't understand that.
1:22:44
The part about the homegrown intellectualism was really strong. Specifically about the yearning for a certain kind of curiosity that isn't institutionally accessible. It was a really compelling point that extends beyond the issue of masculinity that resonated pretty personally.
Told ‘em what would happen if I hangout with Doc too often. LMAOOOOO
i think my intellectualism search came from my anxiety and trying to figure out the source and how to overcome it
I think my favorite thing about this whole Manosphere trilogy is how you're not bothering so much to debunk their dumb bullshit, 'cause there's plenty of videos out there doing that - rather, you take the time to explore why these people are able to amass such large audiences, what draws people to them.
And as always, there's your immense capability for empathy that makes all your videos so much more worth engaging with, and what makes you one of my favorite channels on this hellsite.
Massive kudos to you for this whole undertaking, you did an incredible job!
This. Nothing says truth, like engagement for the heart of the matter, instead of the argument put forth.
Can you tell me what is dumb bullshit? I want to know what aspects of the manosphere you have a problem with
Dang, that's a really good point. I hadn't realized about what separates FD from a lot of the other creators I watch. Some of them definitely address why it is people might get caught up in harmful movements, but FD goes above and beyond in that regard. That's super important because you can't always "logic" people out of illogical beliefs, no matter how well you make your case.
This whole series has really made me think a lot about what exactly could "deprogram" or "save" certain people deep in the manopshere. I mean I'm not saying that's my place or that I have anything to offer to that end (in this or other areas). But I think it's definitely an important part of the conversation that is often overlooked.
This
2 years ago I found out about kevin Samuels. Not knowing what he was about I watched 2-3 vids half way. But the whole time i was getting a weird vibe from him. Then i realize this dude hates black women or really love bashing them in front of people
Not to trauma dump on the internet, but I came to this video because my mom fell into the manosphere through Kevin Samuel's. I hear her listening to the most misogynistic, disgusting videos and parrot the same talking points. It's taking a toll on our relationship because of her inserting her "views" into every situation, insulting black women, and trying to push the housewife life onto me and my siblings. It's actually really depressing seeing how my mom's loneliness and insecurities led her to being a toxic Kevin Samuel's simp. Your and Munecat's videos have really helped me understand new wave misogyny and maybe I can help my mom snap out of it
I completely feel you there. My father has fallen into the manosphere as well, maybe for about a year now give or take. He used to love Kevin Samuels and would be cheering him on as he bashed the black women on his show. And as a black woman, it's honestly really disappointing and extremely difficult to hear him regurgitate the same toxic talking points without a second thought. He's a loud man so it's really hard to tune him out, but I find myself having to blast my music or put my game audio on max. Your description of your mom's loneliness and insecurities sound similar to his case in my opinion, and so I pity him for that. I can hardly wait until I get my own place so that I never have to hear these people spew their nonsense ever again. And I'm eternally grateful that there are people like FD that push back on these ideals. Hope things work out for you, but imo it isn't your responsibility to fix her.
You should have some empathy for people who are older than you that live your life experiences seeing the result of it and then with the added wisdom that comes with age, realize the faults of their ways, and are now trying to bestow that knowledge upon yourself. Here's another way to look at it when you were 10 years old with your 10-year-old mind you view the world a particular way and now in your twenties you view the world a particular way. When you reach into your 40s, you will also view the world a different way with that added knowledge that comes from age and experience. So before you discount your mother with talking points, you learned in college about the patriarchy and misogyny and all of that who come from countercultural white people on my ad. Maybe you should have empathy for your mother and your father and ask yourself why at their age after all the experience they are now turning to Kevin Samuels
@@Re_image_Gen But the truth is, experience our parents had in their twenties and experiences we now have in our twenties are different. People are likely to idealise their youth so it's only natural for older people to turn to reactionary politics, it's familiar and comfortable to them, it's basically their "safe space" where they don't have to question if what people believed back then might have been bs.
It's true we should have empathy, but empathy in this case should probably be, recognise their flaws, recognise why they have those flaws, and then maybe help them see thing from different pov, if possible (and if it's not hurting your own mental health).
@@hana-a-cha That's the fallacy of believing that what your experiencing now is unique and never experienced before. Each generation believes that their experience is the first and it's different as if human nature hasn't been the same since time memorial. The fact that you're continuing the cycle of believing that your generation is the one different. The one unique one just proves how similar it is. You should think about that
@@Re_image_Gen Human nature might be the same, but society at large is changing. I personally have very close relationship with my mother and we talk a lot about things, and we both agree that a lot of ideas sure grew up with are very different compared to what I've seen growing up. And kids who grow up now when you don't see racist or homophobic jokes in cartoons (and even do see poc and queer people) will not be the same as I was when I was their age.
Personally, I think telling yourself that your older family members are right and you'll believe the same things when you are old is the real "continuing the cycle". The cycle of believing the same tired questionable takes are correct.
I mean, this would be an extreme example, but would you say people who believed racism is great and how things should be might've had a point and the generation that predominantly believed it's not should have reexamined it?
I'm a white trans guy trying to get a better understanding of how to be an effective intersectional activists, and I wanna thank you for making these in depth videos from a thoughtful and passionate place. My favorite way to learn is from people who love to teach, and you clearly love to teach. It's greatly appreciated.
A guy I was really, really interested in back in 2010 was in the black manosphere. At the time, he basically wanted to f*ck but we did get talking a bit. We went to high school together and found each other on Facebook later in life. At first he wasn't posting dumb shit about having submissive women, say Hotep and Namaste constantly, and questioned valid scientific research. We talked a lot after I declined to sleep with him and he told me about being bullied when we were in high school because he was chubby; they stuffed him in lockers and beat him up, calling him fat. He eventually started working out and joined our football team. He went to prom with a pretty popular girl who eventually broke his heart.
He continued to work out, he was incredibly strong and fit. He was dating a really fine girl in our town. He was always in the gym and she eventually broke up with him feeling neglected. The problem was she left him for another woman. He understood she was bi but he never thought she'd do *that*. He had to always appear prominent, they were the IT couple, his gym use becoming an addiction because of body dysmorphia, so when she left, not only for a woman, not only because he somehow believed he wasn't as valuable as a person, he fell into the black manosphere. He had a cancer scare and fell further into the Hotep black manosphere.
He works in mental health, working with young black boys. I don't talk to him much anymore. But I still see him on LinkedIn.
I hope he found peace, somehow.
That is scary that he works with young men. Hopefully he did find that peace.
Frightening that he is an influence on the next generation of black men. Glad you listened to your intuition and kept your peace by declining physical intimacy.
His failure in relationships steered him closer to misogyny and the black manosphere. Hopefully he gets therapy. Thank you for sharing this experience. It brings like to why these men feel the way they do.
As a black teenage girl, I'm so happy I've found your channel and several others like it. It feels so good to watch content that validates me and my community's existence, and talks about complex issues in a way that humanizes us. Like. Especially coming from a family of Jamaican immigrants in America where all of these issues are never really talked about (because my family never had to think about their identity before from an outside perspective until coming to America) it's so helpful to me to be able to get these breakdowns, especially from a black male perspective. Thanks man, if shit ever gets rough know that your content means so much to so many people, especially 17 year old ppl like me lol.
Beyond denigrating the kinds of personalities that occupy the manosphere, he offers very little critique of actual positions taken within this scene. Obviously there are false prophets in the manosphere, as there are in any genre/grouping, so it would have been helpful if he’d actually addressed a few of them and called out why their positions are bullsh*t/misogynistic…An actual critique not a dismissive monologue
I may be missing something so Can I ask what you took away from his video that you found useful?
@@skwame I don't think the purpose of the video is to explain why these people's positions are misogynistic and harmful. It's already self-evident from the clips shown in the first 10 minutes. F.D.'s purpose in this video is to examine *why* black young boys and men often fall into the manosphere, and examining those reasons with nuance and empathy, especially when there are so many different factors that affect the black manosphere in particular that is different from, idk, white incels on the internet talking shit. F.D. in this video already makes the assumption that the viewer of this video can recognize what misogyny looks like and what that looks like in the black community. This video isn't to engage with whether or not what these manosphere creators say is "bullshit," because it is. If you need that explained to you this isn't the video for that, I'm not sure how else to respond to that with all due respect.This video resonated with me because for the first time I have somebody that gets the shit I experience and I don't have to write paragraphs to explain myself or try to be understood. This video feels important to me because while I don't have any direct family that is so blantantly misogynistic, my own father has said things that are adjecent to some of these manosphere creators ("women are like the devil," when referencing issues he has with my mom, "black women" blah blah blah) that contains some misogynistic/anti-black undertones. And it's also scary because my brother is 12 on the internet and I worry he could end up like the manosphere people on the internet. But yeah. There's a lot of other stuff too that idk how to articulate, but yeah. Idk why I need to explain all of this though
@@Natasha-lq2cl firstly thanks for sharing your experience and I’m very sorry you’ve had to experience such behaviour from your own father. It sounds like he has unresolved issues stemming from women he engaged with in the past. He likely refuses to take accountability for his own failings and poor choices over time and feels more comfortable assigning it to women generally. Now it’s totally possible he had bad luck with women and has a right to feel aggrieved towards those specific individuals but directing his ire to all women carte Blanche is wrong
But I digress. This isn’t my first FD video. I’ve seen a number and generally haven’t had much issue with his content because he does an excellent job at explaining his positions. So even where I disagree, I can somewhat empathise with his perspective
As he acknowledges himself, the manosphere isn’t a monolith. Are some of the voices misogynistic… Absolutely but that doesn’t equate to a total absence of thought worthy of intellectual critiqu, unless his goal is solely to engage with people who already agree with him…and what’s the point of that?
Given his platform, lumping all the voices in the manosphere together and assuming it’s ALL trash is irresponsible. and anti-intellectual … I expect more from him
@@Natasha-lq2cl Sorry about your father. It sounds like he's either come across Black manosphere bs or someone in his peer group came across this stuff and spread it to him.
My valedictorian and the lead in my magnet drama program was a Jamaican girl from a VERY wealthy family. Idr if she immigrated or her parents but I'd guess it was her parents, but I watched her obsess over black identity almost out of shame from not coming from a family where these issues were prevalent previously but it wasn't in any negative way. Just the adaptation to being Black American from having just been an upper class person without race being so meaningful
To any of the manosphere/divestor community looking to attack FD, before you do, let me tell you something:
FD has come for
1. Kanye West
2. Dave Chapelle
3. All of Breadtube
4. Black Love itself
5. K-pop
6. Drake
7. Barack Obama
8. Nicki Minaj
He's called his wife a Tsundere, said she doesn't like it when he does it and doubled down and said it was hilarious.
He's roasted his kids' video game skills on live!
He has ABSOLUTELY no fear of you nor your fave nor your fandoms. So step lightly.
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And that dude FD Signifier, because he is CRAZY SPICY with the hot takes."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (in an alternate universe)
I gotta pin this one
Lmao, goated video, goated comment.
Lmao, ok.
This man legit avoids anyone that seems even halfway intelligent and (in good faith, mind you) critically engages with his work.
"He has no fear..."
Imagine "having no fear" but then actively ducking critics of your work. I have only ever seen speak to one critic, and in that instance it was the milquetoast Shark3ozero. And he still expressed trepidation in having a chill convo with S3.
I understand that FD isn't obligated to address his critics, but at some point people will question why
@@candorsspot2775 just because you have trouble getting nuance doesn't make it mindless
@@candorsspot2775 how men and women think and operate?
This brother has truly gave me so many refreshing perspectives- while simultaneously confirming certain issues I felt were plaguing our communities.
On ALL of his videos, im so glad to have stumbled across this channel I binge daily listening at work
In the social media era, identifying with any group or ideology gets sticky because people act like they're scared to call out anyone that's "on their side". I don't want to belong to any group that can't hold itself accountable. I appreciate that you take the time to break things down so thoroughly and give nuance even in places where it doesn't strengthen your stance.
I don't think any group in this social media era will hold their adjacent members accountable. Including FD Signifier. It's all narcissism and about being right while everyone else is wrong. It's really tearing society apart...
@@sora4440 how do we turn this Around in your estimation? I think on this stuff a lot
by simply deconstructing the concept of left and right in common discourse and stressing stances on the issues themselves, not the alignment with a specific ideology or idea because it causes this rift to widen
I want to say, as a black woman who has seen my male family members consume black manosphere related media and regurgitate some of their talking points, thank you for what you do.
These talking points have been around for years. Haven't you watched 'sex in the city'
What does sex and the city ha e to do with the manospbere? They are the opposite of everything the manosogere preaches
@@julianbluefeather8491 it's the only media they know of that women have watched in the past, and they latch on to it because it includes women that have and enjoy sex-- things the manosphere detests.
@@libraalibabaI watched very few sex and the City episodes because of this problem. The whole series is problematic on several levels. It's not a surprise that Mr Big turned out to be a predator in real life.
Fiq's videos are like ice cold water after 2 years of only drinking Pepsi. Just cleansing and refreshing. Your channel is so important. Keep going.
“I mean, look at these n*ggas?” LMAOOOOO
"If you want respect when you're dead, earn that shit when you're alive" is the most inspired thing I've heard in a WHILE
So happy you, and other men like you, exist on RUclips. Hopefully more people find community on this channel.
Amen to that! There is a thoughtful and intentional community here, and we just need more of that in the world
I am beyond thankful I found this channel. I didn't believe my pops about farrakhan and how they got Malcom but from watching this channel I learned it was true
2:17:23 "if you want respect in death earn that shit when you're alive" is such a powerful statement that I wish more people heard, because the process of sanctification of anyone who died is a real issue
Well, you do know that no matter what you do you will always have at least one hater. Look how many Jesus had.🙄 Now everyone claims to have loved him. Same thing with MLK jr.
Chapter Timestamps (for me, mostly):/
12:12 Part 2: What is the Black Manosphere
35:11 Part 3: What is STME (Scaring the Maidens Energy)?
50:54 Part 4: The worst "people" on the internet
1:05:57 Part 5: Divestors
1:32:53 Part 6: King of the Simps
2:18:14 Part 7 What Now
Not all heroes wear capes. 🫡
Tysm!
This will be helpful when I do a rewatch!
Doing god's work.
Love your content. I'm wrapping up eight years of military service and looking forward to attending law school next year. One of your videos touch on a document Kevin Samuels referenced that encouraged black men to join the military. This really struck me as a black man with military experience. I have my own story where I desperately wanted to be masculine and became attracted to the military. I also saw firsthand how the military encourages men to act out toxic masculinity thus creating a culture where a lot men "put on'" acts to appear masculine. One day I hope to write a novel touching on these things. If you decide to do a video that focuses on masculinity and the military or how black men are lured to military as a way to build masculinity, please let me know.
That's some content I'd love to see
This explains a lot. It was a job for me only on the outside i understand what else its providing for other people regarding masculinity, identity all that.
But being a warrior as always been something defined as masculine throughout human history
@@handled99, that largely depends on the culture of the time/place. If the culture is patriarchal, it's attached to masculinity. If it's not, it's not. America is a patriarchy, so it's made to be masculine, but in other, older cultures being a warrior was held up as being a high honor, regardless of gender or sex.
For instance, the existence and exaltation of women among the Vikings exist and were exalted.
@@TheIMP2010 What came first, human beings or culture?
As a white woman I know this video has pretty much nothing to do with me, but I still want to express my gratitude for making videos like this. I’ve spent so much of my life fighting on the front of simple black rights talking points, and while I don’t plan on stopping any time soon, I want to be fighting on more fronts. I want to understand more about the intersectionality that comes from the black experience and be able to engage in a positive and constructive way. I feel like your videos have greatly helped me with this cause by teaching me about these complex issues that I would never learn about otherwise. Thanks FD ❤️
I hope you aren’t trying to argue with other black folks
@@fogeedupwhy not?
I went on a date with a guy who used regularly that he isn’t a simp for women but I told him he simping for someone and it just so happen to be for men he don’t really know…which would make him a beta by his logic and he got mad and said he doesn’t simp for anyone then he got quiet after and of course we didn’t last. He was handsome and took care of himself physically and was educated, but it shows how his loneliness and lack of emotional intelligence brought him to that type of thinking. It’s really unfortunate
That's an interesting viewpoint. I don't think that men see themselves as "simps" for other men. Men understand hierarchy and are very well aware of their place in it.
You probably have a different meaning from simp than he does.
How was he simping by simply dating you ?
@@theblackmonk3153 Comprehension is lacking here. He said he WASN'T a simp for women.
@@toomuchinformation that’s not what I asked
I just hear a lot of excuses and coddling masked as “holding men accountable”
During the pandemic as a single woman I used that time to build a home gym, focused on my diet and fitness, I went natural, threw myself into self help books while working with a therapist to heal past traumas. Blk men could do the exact same things but they rather wallow and complain. They complain abt yt supremacy when it comes to their lack of ambition then they say it doesn’t exist when they chase after yt women.
Also the song “scrubs” is not a song denigrating working class men. The song states “a scrub is a guy who thinks he’s fine, also known as a buster. Always talking bout what he wants but just sits on his broke a**”
Those men ARE scrubs.
about the divestor point you made, i was sucked into that corner of the internet for a couple of months and fully believed and engaged with what they had to say. to this day, im thankful in some ways because it opened my eyes to black femicide in this country and really emphasized to me the erasure of black women in black movements which i think is something that needs to be more widely discussed in our community. however, what got me out of it was really just the TERRIBLE statements they would make. i’ll never forget (and once i say this i’m sure many of you will know which creator im talking about loll) one of the very prominent divestor channels flat out said to abort all black boys once you find out you’re pregnant with one because they’re all degenerate….i was like wtf ??? that’s when i started to wake up and really analyze what i was consuming and i realized they were no better than the manosphere and saw how bitter i became consuming that rhetoric. there should definitely be more divestor critique and condemnation in the youtube space because it’s very much an issue.
Black conservatism is literally forcing us to eat ourselves. I think the divestors and the black manosphere are just another way to breed us out of existence.
One thing that deserves recognition is your incredible fairness and thoughtfulness when attacking these topics!! You are balance in human form🫶🏾
☝ that right there is what brought me in to begin with, a lil over a year ago, with one of his other videos. wasn't even that I agreed with most of what I was hearing, it was HOW it was presented. in today's age it's refreshing... and prolly our only way forward too 🤷
@@adrianguinn3331 Absolutely! We definitely need more like him!
Absolutely agree, his empathy and nuance is so refreshing and mature.
@@aazhie it really is so inspiring.
If he was fair he'd just have the conversation with these guys so they can counter his arguments.
If you want a woman’s perspective on the Divestment movement, I recommend Melanated Crown’s video on how black women have become a casualty to this “movement”. What gets to me is Divestment originally was just about black women not sacrificing their mental, emotional and physical health for the black community, putting themselves first and living their best life while also dating whatever race. It’s disheartening to see that it’s turned into this very anti black “get you a white king” movement. Anyways, great video as always! Love hearing your thoughts and getting a better understanding on a demographic that I do want to learn and understand more.
I will check this video out, thanks for the recommendation.
I agree. A lot of the original divestment content emphasized “hanging up the cape” so to speak, and was less focused on dating. It was about reclaiming our image and recognizing or worth in the black community outside of the unsexed work mules that we have been traditionally associated with. Then it became a space for BW to vent about their negative experiences at the hands of black men, something I could at least sympathize with and try to learn from. Somewhere along the line it turned into “black men are the enemy of every black woman”/pro-black women only” monstrosity we see today. I’m glad he finally talked about it in a real down to earth way.
😱 "white king" makes me feel some kind of way! I've not been in such circles for various reasons. I had no idea that's the attitude. When I've heard about it in passing, it was as you described the initial phases. I'm conflicted because the current circumstances you described definitely hint at a subterfuge but...self care is kind of capitalistic too. That's my conflict. We need a certain amount and it needs to be high quality. But with all the injustice and trash that needs to be cleaned we need to be connected in spirit and heart. It's unavoidable that we are in substance to varying degrees. Individuality is one of the lynchpins that keeps capitalism's worst exploitation and oppression going without a challenge. So it seems in a way like resignation that allows one to comfortably sink too far to struggles one's way free. I just don't know...
Also they’re really racist towards women in general and specifically White, Asian, and Latina women.
I watch her too!
For TLC's no scrub, i didn't see it as an attack on working class black men particularly. But specifically, non self sufficient men who wanna exploit their women by living off of them and not contributing. In the lyrics:
- "hanging out the passengers side of his best friends ride, trying to hollar at me". That's basically catcalling showing such low effort to approach a woman, why would she entertain him?
- "can't get wit a deadbeat ass" and "if you have a shorty that you don't show love", why would she wanna risk getting knocked up by someone who's already an absent father?
- "if you live at home with your momma", if he's living with his mom, then he'll most likely move in with her when they start dating, so why would she want to have a grown man dependent on her.
- "if you don't have a car and you're walkin" can be seen as materialistic. Yet, how many times have we heard the trope of a dude droppin his woman off at work using her car just so he can use that car to go cheat on her?
These are patterns they're expressing frustration about because they've observed and experienced it enough in their community from men that use women for everything they can and are often narcissists or even abusive at times. I think it's important here not to gaslight that reality.
Obviously these behaviors aren't something that are typically expected from us black men, but that's also why they're pretty clear about describing what they mean by "Scrubs" in the lyrics.
As far as gender equivalent songs go in black music, this is basically like 'gold digger' for black women, except it came before hand, and long before Kanye so loudly expressed his alignment with white supremacy.
You ever heard the response song "No Pigeons"?
Don't sell yourself short! Your experience as an educator and being able to research and break down complicated findings is very valuable. Not only that, the mm, energy that you give off is very comforting. Think you mentioned yourself being called an Uncle? I'd agree, but in the good kind of uncle; a male mentor that people can respect
I will admit, you changed my mindset & introduced a different perspective. I appreciate that & I learned some new things pertaining to this conversation as a whole.
I would like a penny for your thoughts what was your moment of clarity
The nuance. The breakdowns. You are needed, so needed and highly respected! Only hope this and similar platforms continue to grow and be exposed to more people as this is important discourse to navigate
This type of nuance FD puts in his dialogue is so important to grasp. It makes for lengthy ass videos, but damn is it important to talk about
@@midnitemomo highkey agree!
Funniest line: "In this jambalaya of foolishness, there are morsels of value" 🤣In all seriousness, I appreciate most your intellectual honesty and transparency. When it comes to irreducibly complex topics like this one, there is so much social pressure to take a position with certainty and to not back down from it. You model well how through further research of the diversity of positions on a topic and reflecting on the nuances of those positions, one's own perspective evolves. This kind of genuine curiosity, open-mindedness, and willingness to revise one's position is very refreshing in this space (RUclips), as it too often is dominated by unquestioning certainty, dogma, and close-mindedness. I'm looking forward to your future content.
I see what you did there🧐
Honestly this is one of the most brilliant videos I’ve ever watched. I’m watching it in South Africa at 2am. And I have work in the morning. But it’s worth me being awake. Thank you so much.
Fellow South African. 😂
My fellow South Africans!
Fellow Saffa here!
What part of this is brilliant? It's a critique based off Black assimilation of yt liberal ideology. It is self assured & seems scientific but naa!
Okay I know- I know this isn’t the point but, hearing you so casually call neo she made me just endlessly happy. All your work is so thoughtful, and I’m very grateful
I thought I was misunderstanding him. I also did not know the history of the writers of the film.
@@jazdj04 i havent watched aranock's video on the topic, but sophie's (from sophie from mars; also mentioned in this video) was really thorough. she not only break down the behind the scenes stuff, like the wachowski sisters conception of the story, but also went into the more technical aspects of the movie, like how certain scenes and shots were framed and explained how those also played into the trans allegory.
then if youre done with those and want a more movie review/analysis angle, especially how the movies work as a whole-a saga, instead of just trilogy or even stand alone-i'll recommend jessie gender's vids for that. :D
"y'all know i'm an intersectional feminist, i'm not afraid of intimacy bring it in" had me cracking up in the best way.
So happy I found your channel FD. I love how you can so fairly represent both sides of an argument while displaying clear facts and keeping things engaging the whole time. You are one of the best video essayists I have yet found on this platform.
Back to this video for the 20th time in 3 months. It brings me so much peace for some reason. Really quiets my mind as I listen and learn. Thank you so much.
All my white/light skinned privileged friends always ask me why I'm scared to travel the US alone, despite travel alone on many occasions abroad in latin America, Africa, and Europe. This is entire discussion is why, and it's honestly the one thing I fear in this life, and I'm not even black, just a dark skinned latino. Thank you for your work.
The same can be applied in certain parts of Europe.
I’m from the UK. I know there are many places in Europe that I wouldn’t want (nor attempt to be fair) to travel on my ones, if you feel my drift, particularly as a woman !!
@@hannah60000 Can you say where? I couldn't come up with anything from my knowledge.
@@KoreaMojo eastern europe.
I know exactly what you mean. I'm Mexican American, traveled back in forth between the U.S. and Mexico many time growing up and went to 6 different countries while I was in the Army, and i can honestly say I don't get treated like an outsider the way I do here in the U.S. by white people.
@@brucepower3429 Thanks. Well... after the Andrew Taint stuff about one of those countries I guess something should have came to me. I thought Czech republic and Bulgaria were cool because I only hear nice things but I don't hear any of that from ladies. It never occurred to me it was because of any particular reason.
Seeing Jay Smooth here is really fucking heartwarming. I used to be subbed to him back in the day and always wondered what the hell happened to him so it was a really nice surprise.
Yeah. He had a great video about how to tell a racist theyre racist (or a similar title), which I loved.
Same! I enjoyed him back in the day.
I screamed "JAY SMOOTH" when I saw him pop up at the beginning.
yes it was! he was the best part of RUclips back in the day. such a legend.
Commenting as a black woman learning to love a black man who works a regular job and does whatever it takes to care for his black family. Thank you for helping me understand my his worth. He deserves to be seen and understood just as much as I.
This is the first video I've watched of yours. And I am blown away. This video is so well-written, so well put-together. I am inspired to begin writing a script for my videos instead of just hitting record. Great video@
Saw this the first time he uploaded and I loved it. RUclips needs to change this algorithm because too much good stuff gets demonitozed. Good work FD keep it up.
what happened to the old one??
@@boobysr RUclips demonetized it so he had to re-edit it and resubmit it
I know zero about the monetizing process. S there an alternative to FD remaking and reuploading? Seems unfair and quite time-consuming. In short, is able to tell YT that they can keep adds off and not pay him, and viewers compensate for the loss of income by paying for, “renting” the video for a period of time?
Or is that not feasible? Thanks
@@dipthongthathongthongthong9691 You would have to ask him about that. He has a patreon where he uploads videos early but that can only compensate for so much. If the video gets demonitized then it'll stop running ads for the most part. Not sure if he'd be open to renting out his cobtent one video at a time.
@@blaze14ZX Got it. Just seems like a f-ing headache to reach a final cut of a 2hr vid then have to take down and reedit etc... was wondering if there was a workaround but im sure he and his colleagues have discussed it. Thanks
This pushed me to finally get in on Curiosity/Nebula. The silliness of this platform is getting to be too much.
honestly probably going to as well.
Same. I just went ahead and subscribed
Next paycheck
@@akabaneolivia9550 haha, this comment is real life
The gender war makes Black people talk to each other like they fought to get promoted to grand wizard 😭
your built in breaks for people's reactions just cracked me up. It was also so wonderful to see you spoke to Jay Smooth as part of this video. As always this was well researched, well argued and well presented.
Man this conversation 💗
I want the gender war in the Black community to stop so we can focus on the larger issues in the community! Divided we fall!
Also I hate Tommy S too, he was Terrible
Honestly, it’s really boring and tiring at this point. I really wish there were more of us with these ideologies of wanting more and actually doing better for our community.
I really think that's why it's encouraged. It's lucrative but also in a broader sense it keeps people distracted while they are being continually ripped off. Not so much a conspiracy as a consequence that once noticed is encouraged to continue.
As a black trans masc, I sometimes wonder how much of my "refusal" to be as masculine as I wanted was because I was afraid that I would be loved less than when I was a girl or just "genderfluid". I had a brief dalliance with being this flavor of toxic in high school, I was raised in a predominantly white area and was made fun of my family for not being black enough. So I feel like I pushed back against being masculine because I saw how my mom talked about my dad when they separated and then her boyfriends, or how my dad talked about dudes wearing saggy pants which made them disrespectful somehow? And I feel like maybe a lot of millennial black people had a time of feeling lost and trying to be accepted by white peers if they were mostly around white people and didn't have any access to black community besides waking up too early for church with your parents. So not seeing anyone like yourself around, makes you see yourself as an outsider but also makes the other black people not "like you".
facts💯i grew up inna deep country where it was literally 5 black kids in the whole school🤦🏾♂️i was there from k-8 so growin up around all them 👿s put a lot of shit in my head💯the once i got 2 high school i ended up transferring to a school that was majority black n had a major culture shock💯it kinda like u said the black people wasnt really fuckin wit me but i was never really part of my white friend group fr either💯🤷🏾♂️krazy part is now i graduated n dont talk 2 nun a them🤣🤣🤣
I get that, living like a curiosity is a pain.
Leaves you constantly navigating life with the knowledge that you are too different because of your experiences or lack there of so your performance of cultural expectations is lacking, thus leading to more cultural and social isolation.
At least that’s how it was for me, not trying to put words in your mouth or whatever trying to express camaraderie for your situation.
@@brotherumarj3370 yo dude smeg off, like seriously all you came here to do is get some form of validation you obviously aren’t getting in your actual life that’s why you’re continually hate posting on a channel you don’t like.
This isn’t a conversation or a comment to open and engage in dialogue about anything this is you targeting a victim to spill your poison on. And if that is all you’re here for seriously smeg off and don’t come back till you can treat others with the respect you feel you deserve.
I pity the type of person you are.
@@brotherumarj3370take your transphobic ass somewhere else. You obviously know NOTHING bout transitioning or youd know therapy and psychology appointments are needed as well as letters from both before surgery is an option.
Thank you for sharing, I’m sure you are not alone out there, we need your voice :) bless you
I think you barely scratched the surface when it comes to the way black men have denigrated blk women through music/media as far back as the 1930’s. It was really huge in the 90’s when you had Snoop depicting blk women as dogs with tails on his album cover, Willie D advocating for unaliving of blk women who had no hair. Spike Lee degrading blk women, fetishizing us while uplifting yt women.
It wasn’t just a “few jokes” by comedians. Blk men were going hard on blk women and gave birth to the ultimate demon Tommy S.
You are trying to paint the gender war between blk men and women as a conflict that was waged equally and it was anything but.
You should rewatch that section again around the Scrubs song and divergent women and @2:33:00 because he states multiple times that the gender wars b/w blk men and women is as old as time there's no point in going over it again and thinks its stupid and harmful and thats why those two groups exist
Watched this once already and planning on a second round to process stuff I may have missed. This was truly great, as usual.
Commenting to get this blowing up.
Awesome to see Jay Smooth - he was really foundational to my early education on BIPOC issues back in the early 2010s.
Man, RUclips will find any reason to take down good, informative videos like this but will let the most harmful content on earth run rampant. I hope this gains momentum
I didn’t even know divestor was a space. I thought it was just a new term for black women to go into interracial/hypergamous dating (which in my personal opinion and with the black women i am around; i don’t really see that happening still 🤷🏽♀️) but that’s crazy. We really at a place of trauma within so many spaces to want to harm others. We need healing for real. And we need healthier solutions to these problems.
Thank you for sharing! Very insightful, glad to have found your channel. A perspective that not only provides empathy, but also gives hope to a better future for free thought and how it can relate to intersectional social theory. Round of applause to you my man stay up!
Even though you said you weren’t going to be debunking red pill logic with this video, I really like how you covered a lot of the basics with your points about conservatism. So much of TRP has this “fix the family to fix the community” mindset and falls back on the narrative of personal responsibility that it honestly sounds a lot like a conservative radio show from the 80s. It’s giving “Just say no” as a solution to the crack boom circa 1985.
Very little of the black manosphere is dedicated to promoting practical, solution-oriented, and actionable steps towards self improvement other than just “get your money up”. Despite people like F&F and KS promising to be speaking on the behalf of average men, much of their rhetoric aimed towards women silently undermines the working class as well. It’s why their second biggest grift (after paying for questionable dating advice) is crypto scams. These men don’t want to dismantle the toxic/hegemonic masculinity that they know are restricting them. Rather they’ll continue to promote this broken system, all the while trying to rearrange it with themselves at the top of the food chain.
Wow. I’ve never looked at it like that.
You broke it down well. This is just MLM for black manosphere channels in the end. They could give two shits about the consequences of their words after the fact
Wow. Very well thought and enlightening
Yuuuuup. It's never about fixing the system; it's always about blaming someone else for why you're not sitting at the table.
the dating coaches were around way before the manosphere. and crypto scams are a universal problem. you have no idea...
Watched the majority of the raw cut on Patreon because I didn’t wanna miss anything great work Unc!
Was it worth it
@@senpai_dolph7873 Definitely was an OG experience seeing the actual audio of the divester audio 😂 if you don’t care about hearing it then there’s really nothing major left out.
I really need to get on that patreon
Excellent video FD. It does help me talk to my son and my daughter. It is being a long time I realised this Manosphere movement, but when I tried to alert some people around me I was misunderstood. Now we see. Keep on doing the great job FD.
Half way through the video, I had to just pause and take in the gratefulness I have right now. This video is so needed. Makes me feel like I’m back in school and like you said intelligently curious! This is the content I’ve been wanting, thank you brotha.
There is an oldschool term for homegrown intellectualism to connect this analysis to - autodidacticism. A fair amount has been written on it. An intersectional compare and contrast is interesting
I watched this the first time around, and was aghast. I'm sorry the algo and money minus got to it, but your edits are roundly effective. Thanks for taking on these topics, and talking about the hardest parts of these issues.
+
I was able to watch the first upload on Nebula, but haven’t had time to re-watch the whole new upload. What parts had to be changed to appease YT’s bs demoni tizing?
I appreciate the (relatively) ‘gentle’ approach FD has toward unpacking the manosphere, esp. the black manosphere - although you had a coupla strong words for KS, which are VERY warranted👀💀. Your video essays always force me to stretch my thinking and perception which make your work the more valuable. You’re a national treasure in this space🎖 • 🇿🇦
as a dominican/puerto rican person, hearing my mom say that she’s not racist for only preferring white men felt rlly weird until I got older and could actually understand the issues with it
Anyone else having an insane amount of manosphere content on the RUclips shorts algorithm? I always click “not interested/Don’t recommend channel” and it keeps being pushed on me. it’s annoying at best, a cause for concern at worst as some of these videos are seriously inciting hate towards women. I was actually quite shocked at some of the shorts I saw, like straight up no filter “women are lesser creatures”. I grew up on an unsupervised internet and saw a lot of shit growing, but I didn’t have an algorithm shoving shit down my throat at all times on every social media… It’s seriously concerning the echo chambers this creates
Yeah a lot of conservative shorts are made so they keep getting pushed out
Without the influence of my Black sisters I probably would have never been pulled out of the pipeline. I reflect every day on how fortunate I was to have people like them around at that time in my life and how most people who fall into the pipeline just aren’t fortunate enough to have that type of influence around them.
Obsessed with your content, it's so well-measured and thoughtful. This is exactly the panacea I've been seeking. Thank you.
This video was very informative and thought provoking. Thank you for your hard work.
I found it interesting, to say the least, to frame songs like no scrubs or bills bills bills as a theme that denigrate working class black men - when those songs specifically describe men who arent necessarily just broke - but mooch and take advantage of their partners and friends without reciprocation. thats very different from denigrating a man who is working class. especially since for each of those examples you can find songs that talk about holding a man down through tough times, building him up, and catering to them. In fact, both TLC and Destiny’s Child have songs deride gold diggers and “loose women” and/or encourage egalitarian relationships. Not to mention, these records were only considered empowering because they encouraged women to break the pattern of accepting less or having lowered standards for men that have higher expectations of women - most Black women especially in those times believed in building a man up and not trying to undermine him by making it known you earn more and letting a man “be a man.”
Not going to lie that there is a running theme of wanting to be with a rico man in female rap - but as we know rappers seek to assert dominance in gendered ways and in a society thats largely partriarchal and misogynistic - sex (in specific ways) and rejecting men based on what they lack in their definition their masculinity (money, looks, prowess) - are some of the only ways that women can exert some sort of dominance over male counterparts. but the comparison of rejecting broke men to the rampant misogyny in many hip hop lyrics (violence, r*pe, pedophilia) is kinda off. I see where you were going w the comparison but that dynamic definitely needs more fleshing out
I keep seeing this argument and to me it reminds me of when rappers say "we not talking about women we talking about (insert pejorative here for working class black women). It doesn't matter that said men weren't "good men" by some metric, the sentiment still stands out and still was stigmatizing.
@@FDSignifire Im not sure why it reminds you of that bc whatever madonna-whore complex that drives “we not talking about women we talking about bitches” is not equivalent to the distinction made based on the content of those songs. Maybe Im misunderstanding, but DC singing about a man who runs up her phone bill, uses her credit card, and runs out the gas in her car doesnt sound like a denigration of working class men bc it doesnt even sound like a statement on class. not saying that anti-broke men sentiment doesnt exist in the culture - but the examples you chose were not properly put in context and they still arent an equivalent comparison for the violent misogyny in rap lyrics.
if anything, more recent examples from female rappers and the expressed standards from BWIL, hypergamist BW, and the general trend of high earning = high value & how its affecting relationships between Black people in some of the most precarious financial times would have made more sense. I find it weird that songs expressing frustration at a man for running out their money with no reciprocity or having standards for women that they cannot meet are can be considered stigmatizing for working class men as a whole as if those behaviors were said to be characteristic of working class men.
@@FDSignifire I don’t know man. When the song scrubs came out, suddenly there were a lot less men hanging out the passenger side of his best friends ride screaming “yo shawty, you gotta phat azz.” If those were “working class BM” perhaps they needed to be shamed into shutting the phoce up. 🤷🏽♀️
I’m glad you spoke about the “men ain’t shit” movement. Even as someone far from anything manospshere related, who treats the men and women in my life as the humans they are, it’s hard not to be filled with self hate and overall disgust when I see how I’m a “bullet bag” and “deserve nothing”. Cuz I see what niggas actually do to these women and it fills me with the thoughts of “maybe I should be dead”, “maybe all men should die”
It’s important to remember that that kind of abuse is not exclusive to man on woman. We’re surrounded by institutions that overall are unconcerned with abuse in general- abuse of women is covered so much because it’s become a media commodity; abuse of men is minimized and erased and abuse of trans/non-binary folks is just plain considered good.
That “bullet-bag” “men ain’t shit” talk is just a breeding ground for TERFdom because it ignores race/class by blaming one of the victim groups; it’s a form of fascism.
Don’t forget the horrors of the prison system; now consider that the prison system and sexual exploitation and sexual violence/domestic violence all share a common source: patriarchy. They aren’t separate issues, they’re the same self-perpetuating cycle of issues.
Damn I’m sorry it got to you like that. I was the opposite, it filled me with contempt and hate towards women for a while because why would I treat someone who wants me dead for existing the way I was born any other way?
Took a while for me to get out of it.
Dude, you seem pretty moral and chill, there’s a lot of f ed up men everywhere but seeing actually nice dudes standing up to them reaffirms my faith in the world
Don’t let it stick to you my dude, I had a couple older cousins like this growing up and my moms sometimes pushed some of this pseudo-misandrist BS. I learned to just “laugh at the cracks in the walls” as my older brother put it but iunno if that’s healthy.
But I do know this, even if you’re a misogynistic manosphere dude you being dead won’t “fix” that. You can only grow and become the person you’re supposed to be by staying here with us alive and in the sunshine. You aren’t a bullet bag and you deserve every chance to define yourself and discover what you are and what you are actually capable of.
That's crazy bro, if you wanted to you could flip the races and get the same stories it's bs
@FD Signifire, thanks for coming on Mr Z and Bernard Riley show. Though I do not agree with your positions on many issues, I appreciate you coming onto our platforms to have discussions. All the best to you moving forward.
This video has inspired me to move forward with my plans to make my RUclips. You said something that hit me, I really considered never picking up the microphone out of feelings of hopelessness. I felt like my voice wasn't mirrored anywhere else. I appreciate this body of work now that I've watched this whole video
🚶🏽♂️🐒🐠🌊
I know you asked for my types not to comment on this one, but I just wanna say, as a man who has been a Boy, a Boy who has made Mistakes, I just wanna say to all my fellow Boys out there: I love you boys. And the best thing any of you can do is learn to love yourself, and love your community. It’s the best way forward for yourself and the world.
Take care.
Thanks 🙏🏾
It's because of your amazing work that I am joining Nebula. You approach every single topic with such deep research sprinkled with humor, but you also manage to be incredibly fair towards many of the people you disagree with. I'm sorry this video was demonetized, forcing you to re-edit and repost it. It isn't fair when so much problematic stuff slips under RUclips's radar.
I love the way you addressed issues even when you prefaced with you weren't the expert. This was a great video.
👉🏽🌈
I emcountered the manosphere and realized it was bs without understanding precisely why or how dangerous the community really is. Your vid really connected a lot of those dots for me plus some i wasn't aware of..That knowledge building you mention towards the end of the video didn't just hit home, you knocked it out the park. Jumpstarted a lot of different lines of thought for me. Respect. 🙏🏾
Same frfr I was into it but the more people I found the patterns of too much.
Quick note: could we get a volunteer to transcribe this episode and give us some reliable captions? Not only will it make the clips of those interviewed via Zoom and the like easier to understand fully, it's also a common courtesy to the Deaf and HOH communities respectively.
Captions are imminent
@@FDSignifire You rock!
You are much fairer than I would be on this subject and I really appreciate your videos. I don't think I would be able to offer the same grace and understanding when dealing with some of the bogus BS they preach. I get the idea that the future of basically every content creator is kind of up in the air at all times but I really do wish you a long career in this game... or at least enough success to retire off of... Peace.
It's absolutely hard, but it is important to recognize that this stuff comes from somewhere. White racism and fragility might be bullshit--but it comes from somewhere. That tension exists. Same as the tension between black males and black women exist and we have to deal with it instead simply calling black men racists and homophobes.
I definitely agree with you here, I personally feel like I can offer grace to those who are dealing with this kind of stuff in day to day life and my say something off handedly. but a lot of these cats that profit off of stoking this tension have no vested interest in a solution and are actively making a living off making the problem worse... i can talk to my dude that has some fucked up views and maybe change his mind but these MF's have no interest in healing so I'm good...
@@TheSkaOreo huh
@@amdman4you you’ll get it when you’re older
Brother your videos are the best essay-style videos I have ever seen. Keep up the good work!
This was long but I enjoyed this very much. Sooooo informative and insightful. I can't wait to share this with the receptive men in my life and I will use this knowledge to help shape the ideas of the young men in my sphere of influence
I was wondering what happened to the video. I'll be sharing it again.
I am so happy you talked about divesters as someone who was raised by someone who would be considered a divester minus the blatant racism more of the all men deserve this or that. As a young black male growing up it really warps your perspective on not only how you view black men but also yourself. Which I hate to admit it made me for short time in my life absolutely despise black women, from the verbal abuse of a guardian who believed I didn't fulfill the role as proper man, constantly saying I would be nothing, then later experiencing the same issue while attempting to date black women because I didn't fit the normative black stereotype that they were looking for. I am glade the manosphere wasn't around when I was 18 because I could honestly see myself going down the path most of the "red pill" most people don't realize going outside and interacting with different people will really change your outlook on life.
I find it extremely bizarre that a lot of people seem to want to be told how to be and not be given the freedom to be self determined, self defined. As a little kid, and even often while still in college, I always got comments on how I dressed, and these comments were of course some type of policing on how I wasn't being a white boy, or man, at these times. I suppose this makes sense given that I was an only child raised by a single mother, often times living in a multi generational home with my grandmother as well. The love they showed and gave me I think allowed me this freedom of determination despite the constant policing and questioning of my sexual orientation (sometimes by other family members). It was all always super bizarre to me, (even more so to me because I was "straight") and I still don't understand the need for people to care that much about other individual's preferences. The fear of self determination, seems to reveal the fear to think and try.
You have to remember that many of us grew up with either at least one absent or two absent or inattentive parents. I think people forget that just because two parents are in a home doesn't mean they're giving any guidance. In a way these manosphere spaces and divestor space that serve as surrogate parents to the people who are seeking guidance. It all comes down to mommy and daddy issues.
Thank you... been watching the internet turn my favorite people into uncle ruckus... its been killing me... you're much more articulate than I could ever hope to be about this subject.
You and Khadijah Mbowe is what the black community needed. You’re commentary is refreshing
Na, the Black Community needs less of this and more Men telling the truth, that's the problem. Did he have some good points? Yes, but so did Kevin Samuels, you can't deny the truth no matter how hard you dislike reality.
@@thegift369 Exactly....these people just beat their gums but have no actual solutions to these issues. At least Kevin offered solutions to problems. That's more than I can say for these folks.
I love her
*"The camera is too hot. It cannot be used until it cools. Please wait. Camera will turn itself off."*
Man that really gets to me in my heart. You've really got a way with words in your videos.
Quality as always. Love what you do and appreciate you.
Somewhere in here there was a comment about radio mysogony and Howard Stern. If you ever get bored, look up Tom Leykis who was HUGE in the 90s FM talk boom. His “Leykis 101” segment every week “Teaches men how to get tail without spending a lot of money. And women how men think.”
You also had ‘The Regular Guys’ who, when fired from the LA market settled into GA. Lots and lots of folks from the FM talk era dabbled in it.
Thanks for this! The divester part was hilarious and still extremely informative. I learned so much and loved the thorough dissection of the black manosphere and all it’s parts, please keep this content coming!
Define broke boy?😂
@@the2ndcoming135 male of lower social/economic class
@@mateusmachadomartinsjunior4309 the lie detector test determined...you are the father of the little Martel and them🧓🏻
Respectfully commenting so's you get an algo-bump. Excellently presented and thought-provoking information, as usual! So glad I was directed to your content by my (other) favorite bread tubers!
You just blew a lot of minds with that Matrix reference 😳
I’ve been listening to your videos like podcasts while I work and they are NEXT LEVEL. Some things I didn’t think I would agree with or hadn’t considered before you broke it down, and I’m really grateful for the new perspectives (even though you and I fundamentally agree on most things).
W
These are great videos! A lot to sit with and look at other POC communities. I appreciate these videos a lot
Crazy that FD has me excited to watch a reupload. This is easily some of the most entertaining and insightful content out there. We truly appreciate you FD!
I thought I was the only one treating every new video like a new episode of GOT lol
I'm a teenager, what are other channels like yours? I'm Hispanic but I haven't had any luck finding any people with my complexion, my black friends dad has shown me Kevin Samuels and I was interested in the manosphere, but after watching this series has been wanting me to find more Channels like you
Foreign Man In A Foreign Land is a good channel similar to F.D.'s
This definitely was the take down that I wanted. Thank you F.D.! 🎤👏🏼
Found your channel rather recently through the Lauryn Hill video; I’ve always revered her music but because of my age was always a little separated from her main body of work. Found Piece of Mind through a sample on Purity by ASAP and Frank, listened to the track and her raw emotion made me very emotional. I find you to be a very upstanding person who values informing and am glad I found you - you’ve earned my sub, if you care. :)
I’m glad you touched on divesters. When I tried to peer into that part of RUclips out of curiosity, I decided to dip once ladies started calling the Black community “Blackistan” it was a weird time.
They just were literally just throwing out anti black slurs and I was just like what are yall doing? Why can't yall just be normal? Why are we calling people bucks, bullet bags, bedwenches, mammies, etc. And now I am hearing calls for actual genocide/eugenics. Jesus. They are full blown white supremacists indistinguishable from neonazis. My God.
The fact that they started their own incel supremacist language is crazy. Incels do the same thing which made me cringe each time thy made their long form videos.
They definitely are an "interesting" group/cult. I get where they're coming from and have empathy. Don't want to join though lol
Thats the worst youve heard? I cant even stomach it and I’m into gory films.
@@jdkingsley6543 it’s not the worst I’ve heard but that term was one of the first things that turned me off. But that whole community is bad vibes all around.