I ran several different CNC routers for several different furniture companies in the High Point area of NC for around 20 years. Shodas, Biesses, Heian, Wadkins, Hass, Onsrud and others. I started to comment about how important holding down the material is when I see almost every single comment talking about that. A vacuum table works best period. That being said there are ways to make forms or fixtures for lack of a better word especially if you have a part you cut a lot. Double sided tape and plastic nails won't hold pine or poplar, much less walnut. Also remember that once you get familiar enough with the CNC C clamps may be an option. It does bring into play hitting said clamps so I would use that as a last option. Also RPM and feed rate are a factor as well. Although, if it were me, I would do a little research and build some forms for each part I wanted to cut. Enjoyed the video.
I also went super simple with my Avid spoilboard. Bolted first layer down. Screwed 2nd layer to first layer. Makes change-outs quick and easy. I also use raptor nails and it's just so simple!
I love using a game controller on my CNC! Moving the rapid directions is super nice. Plus you can set up your buttons on the D-pad to be your micro adjustments. I have mine set to .010" for X/Y then the buttons on the right side of the controller have my Z micro control, being .003"
Andy...it was a pleasure meeting you at the Vectric User Group Meeting a Couple weeks ago. Always lots of learning and like that you are sharing those with everyone - I try to do this on my YTR Channel and I have lots of learning (LOL). I bought a composite nail gun after watching the AVID presentation at the UGGM a couple years ago and I very rarely use it but when I would like to I have it. As you say, working holding is such an individual thing for various people. Agree with you the best is to experiment and hope you don't ruing too many projects and even less bits as you learn. Keep up the good information.
So for work holding… at work I have used mask that’s used for vinyl masking. You can buy it cheap in wide rolls like 24”. If you apply that to the back of your work piece and then the wasteboard and use spray adhesive in between. Works really well and easy to pull off after.
If you feel you might be using large sheets, ditch that square and use the machine to drill some holes you can drop reference pins in (dowels if you'd like) and remove when you want to use the full board. Double side tape is too thick, too much give for some projects. Painters tape and super glue holds flat stuff like a champ! I built a vacuum for my Avid 4896, but don't have it sectioned off for small stuff, the sound isn't worth it. Very fun machine, can't wait to see more.
Hey Andy, thanks for another great video. That new machine is bad ass lol. Regarding the hold down, if you follow Vernon Hinkle, he has a hold down that I love. He cut a T slot on each side of his wasteboard then inserted a T bolt that goes through a board on top of the waste board and is pulled against your piece and tightened down. Theres no nails, tape or screws. This works for MOST of my projects. Its hard to explain but if you watch his videos its really easy
I always used to use double sided tape on my projects and found out that if you seal the MDF with 1-2 heavy coats of shellac then sand it back it slightly that helps improve the adhesion a ton. I likedto press mine on with a j roller. I’ve since moved onto dog holes and wedges to hold and locate pieces. I’m working on some wedges that can apply both horizontal and vertical pressure to fix the issue that wedges normally have.
Threaded inserts, you could place in the lower MDF panel, then just have holes in top waste board at those locations. I have to use this method due to a vac bed, however the downside is you can cause changes in the bed level based on how much you tighten the screw down (on regular maintenance check). Cutting thin sheet alu, even 1/4 of a MM is a pain to get out & clean up on sectoins of a part. I'm one of those who hates it when I do cut more than a scratch in the waste board. If you're not cutting loads of large thin sheet material and don't need to stop it arching, a vac bed isn't really needed, any of your current methods are more efficient & appropriate.
@Andy Bird Builds pick up a IoT relay from Amazon. Your VFD can trigger it every time your spindle is turning and you will have automatic dust collection. It can also be turned off with the touch of a button if you wanted to film without the noise of the dust collector.
Another great video, thanks Andy. I've been interested in Avids machines and their price point, but I'm disappointed they don't have ATC Spindle options. As for work holding, tapered or rebated custom fixturing is King if your going to make the same projects over and over again on the same size piece of wood. Box that sucker in. You can still use tape to avoid tabs, but less of it, saving you time and money. Another commenter suggested putting the threaded inserts into the permanent layer and I agree. Just be sure to resses them so that you can run a program for drilling new spoilboards, that way you won't hit them during the operation.
Don't put threaded inserts in your waste board. I put brass inserts in my first CNC build, thinking that brass wouldn't cause any bit harm when surfacing, true statement. However, even with a dust shoe attached, I got flying brass shrapnel. On a later little CNC, I machined holes in the MDF, tapped those holes with 1/4-20 threads, and put a couple or so drops of thin CA glue down each hole to strengthen the threads. Also, I use nylon bolts for any work holding. I've not had any problems with either.
@@AndyBirdBuilds you can get threaded nylon rod from McMaster. It is a great alternative. All you need to do is makes some little wooden knobs and epoxy in a length of the threaded nylon. It makes a great way to clamp things and absolutely bit friendly.
I’ll have to learn how to hook up a controller. Seems legit. I have inserts in my spoil board but mostly I use fastenx 2sided tape and screws when I can. It works for me.. I also will use carbide 3d clamps in my threaded inserts or I bought meyers wood shop’s files for his spoilboard and clamps. The clamps are awesome.
Great video. I’m curious how you like the plastic nails going forward. We bought the Senco setup at work, but only used it a handful of times initially.
@@AndyBirdBuilds Good to hear that you’re not experiencing any issues ! Just always the negative comments seem to be so common nowadays. Guess that’s their way of pushing a certain product.
@@AndyBirdBuilds That’s a bit of a shame. You would assume that such machine would come with all the required stuff to hook it up with a dust collection system.
Hey, do you have a compare and contrast between the avid and the shapoko pro? I am back and forth between the shapoko 5 pro and the avid, the shapeoko look nice for the price, I have used an avid CNC and it was really nice. Thank you!
I don't, yet. But just as the price point reflects, these are 2 VERY different machines when it comes to performance. If your budget allows, I'd go with the Avid
@@AndyBirdBuilds thank you for the fast reply. I am interested in having the machine make money when I am not using it for personal projects, but I think the avid is out of my price range for another year or so :/
hey got to ask at end of video your black walnut treys you make that you make lots of why Arnt you are making those deeper. i make the something but out of 2 inch and cut out 1-1/4 and i believe 2 inch wide so crackers can fit into them also olives and other things can't get all the food on my charcutier boards i also make
@@AndyBirdBuilds hey what are you using on sanding stuff on those the deeper the harder the sand little elbow grease. im doing a lot of 3d bowls and the sanding is killing me corners any suggestions on bits to make better
Avid CNC Playlist - ruclips.net/p/PLp-J1-xoURvWZjOlJOGEQk91BNas_7npH
Maybe put the threaded inserts in the bottom layer, and cut “pass through” holes in the waste board on top?
Hmm. That's a good idea. I'd just need longer bolts then. Thanks for sharing!
That’s a genius idea!
I ran several different CNC routers for several different furniture companies in the High Point area of NC for around 20 years. Shodas, Biesses, Heian, Wadkins, Hass, Onsrud and others. I started to comment about how important holding down the material is when I see almost every single comment talking about that. A vacuum table works best period. That being said there are ways to make forms or fixtures for lack of a better word especially if you have a part you cut a lot. Double sided tape and plastic nails won't hold pine or poplar, much less walnut. Also remember that once you get familiar enough with the CNC C clamps may be an option. It does bring into play hitting said clamps so I would use that as a last option. Also RPM and feed rate are a factor as well. Although, if it were me, I would do a little research and build some forms for each part I wanted to cut. Enjoyed the video.
I also went super simple with my Avid spoilboard. Bolted first layer down. Screwed 2nd layer to first layer. Makes change-outs quick and easy. I also use raptor nails and it's just so simple!
I love using a game controller on my CNC! Moving the rapid directions is super nice. Plus you can set up your buttons on the D-pad to be your micro adjustments. I have mine set to .010" for X/Y then the buttons on the right side of the controller have my Z micro control, being .003"
Its a lot of fun. Thanks for the tips!
Andy...it was a pleasure meeting you at the Vectric User Group Meeting a Couple weeks ago. Always lots of learning and like that you are sharing those with everyone - I try to do this on my YTR Channel and I have lots of learning (LOL). I bought a composite nail gun after watching the AVID presentation at the UGGM a couple years ago and I very rarely use it but when I would like to I have it. As you say, working holding is such an individual thing for various people. Agree with you the best is to experiment and hope you don't ruing too many projects and even less bits as you learn. Keep up the good information.
It was great to meet you as well!
So for work holding… at work I have used mask that’s used for vinyl masking. You can buy it cheap in wide rolls like 24”. If you apply that to the back of your work piece and then the wasteboard and use spray adhesive in between. Works really well and easy to pull off after.
What a cool series 👍
I am pretty sure that ultimately one of your projects will be a DIY vacuum table for proper workholding...
Ooh I need to know more about that idea.
If you feel you might be using large sheets, ditch that square and use the machine to drill some holes you can drop reference pins in (dowels if you'd like) and remove when you want to use the full board. Double side tape is too thick, too much give for some projects. Painters tape and super glue holds flat stuff like a champ! I built a vacuum for my Avid 4896, but don't have it sectioned off for small stuff, the sound isn't worth it. Very fun machine, can't wait to see more.
Hey Andy, thanks for another great video. That new machine is bad ass lol. Regarding the hold down, if you follow Vernon Hinkle, he has a hold down that I love. He cut a T slot on each side of his wasteboard then inserted a T bolt that goes through a board on top of the waste board and is pulled against your piece and tightened down. Theres no nails, tape or screws. This works for MOST of my projects. Its hard to explain but if you watch his videos its really easy
I always used to use double sided tape on my projects and found out that if you seal the MDF with 1-2 heavy coats of shellac then sand it back it slightly that helps improve the adhesion a ton. I likedto press mine on with a j roller.
I’ve since moved onto dog holes and wedges to hold and locate pieces. I’m working on some wedges that can apply both horizontal and vertical pressure to fix the issue that wedges normally have.
I like the idea of dog holes and wedges. I just need to get there and work in into my workflow
You can also use pva around the edges of the mdf to help with vac pump suck, also blanking off areas you are not using.
Threaded inserts, you could place in the lower MDF panel, then just have holes in top waste board at those locations. I have to use this method due to a vac bed, however the downside is you can cause changes in the bed level based on how much you tighten the screw down (on regular maintenance check). Cutting thin sheet alu, even 1/4 of a MM is a pain to get out & clean up on sectoins of a part. I'm one of those who hates it when I do cut more than a scratch in the waste board.
If you're not cutting loads of large thin sheet material and don't need to stop it arching, a vac bed isn't really needed, any of your current methods are more efficient & appropriate.
I had this same issue using composite nails - I found I needed to increase the PSI and that resolved it. Maybe try that.
@Andy Bird Builds pick up a IoT relay from Amazon. Your VFD can trigger it every time your spindle is turning and you will have automatic dust collection. It can also be turned off with the touch of a button if you wanted to film without the noise of the dust collector.
Thanks, I'll check it out!
I don’t think a vaccum table would be too hard. I’m spoiled at work with one and it’s amazing. Hoping I can do it for my onefinity journeyman
We run a muticam 5000 series 3mx2m and can't imagine never having a vacuum sucking the work down lol.
Another great video, thanks Andy.
I've been interested in Avids machines and their price point, but I'm disappointed they don't have ATC Spindle options.
As for work holding, tapered or rebated custom fixturing is King if your going to make the same projects over and over again on the same size piece of wood. Box that sucker in. You can still use tape to avoid tabs, but less of it, saving you time and money.
Another commenter suggested putting the threaded inserts into the permanent layer and I agree. Just be sure to resses them so that you can run a program for drilling new spoilboards, that way you won't hit them during the operation.
I never had luck with double sided tape and or the painters tape and superglue method. Maybe it works on light passes.
For work holding I screw blocks tight to the edge of my material hold so that it has no space to move hope this helps
I'm on the same journey as you. My second shipment shows up in 2 weeks. I'm going to learn through your experience.
Awesome! What machine did you get? I hope you find my videos helpful!
@@AndyBirdBuilds I got the Pro4848 also. I'm also coming from the Shapeoko Pro XXL too.
When I use a down cut bit, the saw dust hold the piece in place.
Great lessons were learned!
I like banner tape better than regular two sided tape. You can get it at a plastics shop
Don't put threaded inserts in your waste board. I put brass inserts in my first CNC build, thinking that brass wouldn't cause any bit harm when surfacing, true statement. However, even with a dust shoe attached, I got flying brass shrapnel. On a later little CNC, I machined holes in the MDF, tapped those holes with 1/4-20 threads, and put a couple or so drops of thin CA glue down each hole to strengthen the threads. Also, I use nylon bolts for any work holding. I've not had any problems with either.
Thanks for sharing, Roy.
@@AndyBirdBuilds you can get threaded nylon rod from McMaster.
It is a great alternative. All you need to do is makes some little wooden knobs and epoxy in a length of the threaded nylon. It makes a great way to clamp things and absolutely bit friendly.
I’ll have to learn how to hook up a controller. Seems legit. I have inserts in my spoil board but mostly I use fastenx 2sided tape and screws when I can. It works for me.. I also will use carbide 3d clamps in my threaded inserts or I bought meyers wood shop’s files for his spoilboard and clamps. The clamps are awesome.
Maybe use clamps on your fence. And camp clamps on your wasteboard
Another great video Andy. Looking to add an Avid to my shop sometime soon so I am very interested in following a long.
Have you ever considered using vacuum to hold your parts down? Just curious if that would even work on CNC machines like this.
Super nice setup for sure!!
You should try hooking up the controller to the Shapeoko! I use an Xbox controller to control my 3 XXL and makes it so nice!
Use some alum nails for your nail gun. If the bit hits the nail, no big deal.
Sorry, I did not know you were doing this. Contact Jay Bates, he may be able to provide with some hints on assembly and setup of the Avid CNC.
Great video. I’m curious how you like the plastic nails going forward. We bought the Senco setup at work, but only used it a handful of times initially.
What are your thoughts on the SmartBencg V1.2 Precision Pro CNC? It will be my first CNC.
Oh also does this have an attachment like the onefinity for setting your material height?
I’m considering a avid but I keep hearing so much negative things about rack and pinion drives!
Any thoughts or input?
Always enjoy your videos!
I haven't had or heard of issues with rack and pinion drives. I've ran my machine for about 8 months now and have had 0 issues.
@@AndyBirdBuilds Good to hear that you’re not experiencing any issues !
Just always the negative comments seem to be so common nowadays.
Guess that’s their way of pushing a certain product.
How far past your 48x48 can you go with this setup?
Buy better double sided tape. Get the kind which doesn't stretch. I found mine on Amazon for cheap.
If I didn't have a flow thru vacuum on mine, I would do t-track...
What do you mean you need to figure the dust collection? Isn't the dust collection part of the Avid CNC package?
No its not
@@AndyBirdBuilds That’s a bit of a shame. You would assume that such machine would come with all the required stuff to hook it up with a dust collection system.
@@Maxime-ho9iv I don't know of a CNC on the market that comes with dust collection.
what program are you using?
Hey, do you have a compare and contrast between the avid and the shapoko pro? I am back and forth between the shapoko 5 pro and the avid, the shapeoko look nice for the price, I have used an avid CNC and it was really nice.
Thank you!
I don't, yet. But just as the price point reflects, these are 2 VERY different machines when it comes to performance. If your budget allows, I'd go with the Avid
@@AndyBirdBuilds thank you for the fast reply. I am interested in having the machine make money when I am not using it for personal projects, but I think the avid is out of my price range for another year or so :/
@@hybridosniper I made a lot of money with my Shapeokos over the last 4 years. It can be done
@@AndyBirdBuilds I appreciate that. I am looking for something that can do some aluminum for personal projects and then wood to make money mostly
@@hybridosniper The Shapeoko can do aluminum. Check out @carbide3d
hey got to ask at end of video your black walnut treys you make that you make lots of why Arnt you are making those deeper. i make the something but out of 2 inch and cut out 1-1/4 and i believe 2 inch wide so crackers can fit into them also olives and other things can't get all the food on my charcutier boards i also make
No other reason than that is the design the customer wants
@@AndyBirdBuilds hey what are you using on sanding stuff on those the deeper the harder the sand little elbow grease. im doing a lot of 3d bowls and the sanding is killing me corners any suggestions on bits to make better
@@AndyBirdBuilds love your videos they help me a lot I'm new on the cnc
@@sheilamarsh879 Maybe something like this amzn.to/3TFZiYx
Or this
amzn.to/3D449eU
Lot work went into wast so look afterit
How much this set up cost you?
Would you believe me if I told you I didn't make a single cut until my dust collection system was finished? Haha. Rare...but true!
Shoulda got a stepcraft q series.