I'm excited for True Strike, it feels like it unlocks new build options. An Arcane Trickster with Int as the primary stat. A new option for Bladesinger with Shadow Blade. Etc.
Part of me still wishes they just made it a bonus action and applied it to all attack rolls. Having a pay it forward take aim that would enhance leveled spell attacks consistency or for arcane trickster it would add a sort of paid forward take aim. Letting you take it when you're melee rouge hits their first attack is already confirmed on it, ensuring advantage on opportunity attacks or attacks on the next round at no bonus action cost. I know this is probably better balanced but I do think the idea of the old one was sorta interesting, even if objectively bad in every use case.
I'm not sure that Arcane Tricksters and Bladesingers won't still want a good amount of Dex, and irregardless they'd both probably still prefer Greenflame/Booming Blade when they're available in the campaign. But I do agree that the new Truestrike does open up new possibilities for Medium or Heavy armor primary casters, or substitutes as "good enough" in PHB-only campaigns.
Yeah, my Sorcerer can finally have a decent melee option when he gets trapped in melee range! As to Bladesingers/ Shadow Blade, that spell isn't supposed to interact with cantrips like Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, so I imagine they don't intend for it to work with this either.
I wish this new True Strike would be available to Clerics a well. They seem more likely to swing a weapon. And are the ones I usually think of when radiant damage is involved.
We haven't got the new version of magic initiate yet but I would assume with classes going back to class list so will the feat. The only thing is will it still keep the choose casting stat part. That's my plan for my heavy crossbow war cleric.
WOTC has been scared giving them a gish cantrip given they are already gishy by default. Not saying it's right, but I know many DMs who complain like "Clerics shouldn't be able to use their WIS for atk/dmg rolls so easilt. They are already so strong!" That's my educated guess on why Clerics don't get the gish cantrips at all.
With it being Radiant damage, I feel like it would make sense to be available to Clerics, but with it only available to Wizards, Sorcs, Warlocks, and Bards, I feel like it should do Force instead of Radiant
With Acid Splash, making it an Evocation is actually a major buff, even if just for one subclass. The Evoker can now at level 10 add their INT to it's damage. Still not a major change, but it makes the Evoker love this cantrip as a small AoE, save or half spell that deals a rarely resisted damage type
I think Chill Touch is actually not that far off thematically from necrotic damage. You know, Chill of the grave and all that. Otherwise, we'd also have to change Toll the Dead to thunder damage instead of necrotic.
I'd rather just see them change the name of Chill Touch to Chill of the Grave and leave it as is. It's my favourite ranged cantrip because it's cool and has done me a solid against many regenerating foes where testing for what might stop the regen or healing would have been a pain. Also, if your DM allows attacking objects, it's good for decaying a dead enemy into dust which you can Prestidigitate away... not that I'm guilty of that. 👀
@@probablythedm1669I like the new version because there is an absolute paucity of touch range spells in this game. But I'd be totally down to keep the old version around as an additional spell with a better name
@Treantmonk's Temple 10:10 Blade Ward only says melee attack, not melee weapon attack. So technically, this works against spells like Inflict Wounds and Vampiric Touch.
At 1:50pm this afternoon, I was exhausted. Maybe the CON boost of my morning coffee had lapsed, or perhaps I failed a save against a bad case of The Mondays. But either way, I was in dire straits. At 1:51pm, I received a notification that Treantmonk posted a new video on Patreon. Oh sweet day! What a beautiful world! Perhaps if I had been made to wait another day for this video, I might never have recovered. I might have developed a snowballing case of anxiety over future Mondays, leading to eventual and certain ruin. But that didn’t happen. I got the video on Monday afternoon. How? Because I spent $3 this month for timely content, and I’ll be damned if it wasn’t the right call.
I did a playtest with a third level Eldritch Knight using the new cantrips. For the one shot I took Bladeward for a reliable reaction and Friends since I imagined it working well with Tactical Mind in social situations. Bladeward was my go to reaction and it saved me a ton of damage, during one particularly difficult fight I can guarantee I would have died without the cantrip because of the way Roll20 displays rolls. I’d say this is a fantastic cantrip for anyone who’s not got enough spell slots to cast shield consistently. Friends, unsurprisingly, didn’t come up in the dungeon I was in. I considered using it on the boss prior to combat but it hadn’t detected us yet and I figured a surprise round of attacks would be more valuable than trying to parlay. No conclusion on Friends, I just chose the wrong tool that particular job.
Noticing that a few spells changed into evocation or necrotic makes a lot of sense when you realize that those are the 2 schools of magic whose cantrips become stronger with certain subclasses (Evoker Wizard and Death Cleric)
The funny thing is that you didn't need to end it before. It's a spell with a 10 minute duration and NO CONCENTRATION (caps for emphasis, not volume). The spell doesn't end if you cast it a second time and use that one for a projectile. The first casting just sits underneath the second one until the second one ends, and then the first one works again. It was never an issue to begin with. Now they've nerfed a good spell by making it take a bonus action.
@@carsonrush3352 I see what you mean, but that's getting into the area where it's highly subjective wether you're allowed to do that. A dm could easily say you can't have two separate flames on the same hand for instance.
I liked BG3's approach to Chill Touch: Keep it the same but rename it to Bone Chill. I don't mind the playtest version but quite liked having a 120ft attack cantrip that wasn't Fire Bolt or one of the class-exclusive ones. One thing that's always bothered me about Spare the Dying is that stabilising someone denies them the possibility of rolling a nat 20 and standing back up. It's something I like to house-rule when I'm DMing - roll the death saves anyway just in case it's a 20.
As someone who generally dislikes the blade cantrips, I actually really like the new True Strike. It feels good to open up gishy builds that use spellcasting attribute to attack without having to dip warlock or spend a feat to pick up an invocation. I do worry about it becoming the default attack can’t rip choice though.
I had a similar thought, but I'm not "worried" about it insofar as what's there to worry about? It's not game-breaking, and there are still plenty of reasons to take the other cantrips instead. It may be the top-tier damage choice at low to mid levels, but it ceases to function if you lose your weapon, which is a restriction other cantrips lack. It's single-target, and doesn't apply any conditions. I think it's fine.
Yeah I also think it's fine but for a different reason. Normally what I see is players wanting to use different things in different turns, specially try all those different and fun spells. Can't picture a typical wizard player swinging a weapon with magic over and over again in combat without doing anything else
It requires proficiency with the weapon. That's a pretty sizable restriction that will prevent it from being the default, as martials will just attack with the weapon anyway, and casters won't likely have proficiency with a weapon that makes it matter. It also doesn't seem to work with the Extra Attack feature, meaning martials won't be abusing its extra damage because it straight up won't be more damage than just attacking. I think it's exactly where it needs to be... a star in one niche, but mediocre or useless elsewhere.
I like Shillelagh’s scaling. It gives the incredibly niche Wisdom-focused Druidic warrior build a way to do some solid and even really good melee damage. 2d6 is arguably an improvement over 1d12 because it has a larger minimum damage threshold, but has the same amount of maximum threshold. So it’s a small, negligible amount that only optimizers and minmaxers care about, increase, but an increase nonetheless. Who else is going to use it? Fighters? When was the last time you saw a Fighter focused on Wisdom? A Monk that didn’t focus on Dexterity? A Barbarian that didn’t have a 20+ in Strength and a Wisdom score higher than maybe 12?
Shelly says you *can* use wisdom, not you *do* use wisdom. I've also had an idea tumbling around in my head for a beast master ranger that full-invests in wisdom to improve the beast's damage output, which this would be crazy on.
I was about to make this same point. It seems hard to break. My first thought was a nature domain cleric/fighter. But that just allows it to keep pace with the damage a more typical fighter could dish out. Maybe a Pact of the Tome Warlock/Paladin? That would make shillelagh CHA based. It seems like more trouble than a straight up hexblade/paladin, though.
@@ilovethelegendTechnically, yes. It CAN be But in practice, it's almost always going to be Wisdom (with some exceptions that slip my mind currently). It's a Druid-exclusive spell. If you get it from a dip into Druid, it's going to be Wisdom. No "if"s, "and"s, or "but"s about it. If you get it from Magic Initiate, it's going to be Wisdom. If you get it from Warlock... what're you doing? Take Blade Pact. That's gonna use your spellcasting ability modifier now, but on *any* weapon and I believe you can make it Force. And at that point, you can flavor it to be some brand of nature-y. Magic Initiate's spellcasting ability depends on the class you chose. It might've changed in a UA and I forgot, but short of that, it's going to be Wisdom.
It also helps Wisdom based Rangers with Druidic Magic Fighting Style, but I still think it should be 2d6 not 1d12, and 2d8 not 2d6, for levels 11 and 17 respectively... at level 17, 2-16+Spellcasting Mod Damage is not going to break the game... at level 11, 2-12+Spellcasting Mod is not a major difference than 1-12+Spellcasting Mod Damage. And Rangers aren't going to break the game with a whopping two attacks per turn using Shillelagh... or even True Strike and Shillelagh (oooo, scary), or even True Strike (or Zephyr Strike... actually, Zephyr Strike needs to get a boost to be advantage on the first attack each round as long as the spell lasts and add the 1d8 force), Shillelagh, and a previous round cast Hunter's Mark (can't be done with Zephyr Strike, can be done with True Strike).
Another thing I forgot to add: A bigger duration would be pointless for Shillelagh. It already lasts a minute without concentration, which is usually more than enough for a single fight for a buff like that.
Produce Flame, Shillelagh, and Magic Stone cause a common rules argument with your DM. Specifically when you activate either with your Bonus Action and then try to follow it up by casting a leveled spell with your Action. I hope the inconsequential rule on Bonus Action Spellcasting (PH p202) is replaced with a more general rule that you can only cast one spell of level 1 or higher per turn. That would make the changes to Action Surge and Quickened Spell obsolete and prevent the silly situation where you’re able to counterspell Counterspell against your own spell (unless you’re casting said spell with your Bonus Action). It has never made sense that you’re able to cast Counterspell in the middle of casting another spell (with your Action) without interrupting your initial casting. Since Playtest 7 Counterspell is no longer in the hands of the caster, the time is ripe for removing said interaction. Instead, you are able to buff your own Constitution save against it (I hope the War Caster feat will help with that too).
I much prefer to keep the old bonus action casting rule, but also add a rule that helps bring reaction spells into the reach of balancing efforts. For instance, it would be awesome if we had a rule that said something like, "from the beginning of your turn until the beginning of your next turn, the total sum of the level of spells that you cast cannot exceed the level of the highest level spell that you can cast. In other words, if the highest level spell available for you to cast is a level 5 spell, then the spells that cast in a round cannot add up to a level over 5." The reason I like this, is because then you can create a wide variety of semi-niche reaction spells that help your wizard duels seem more strategic and interesting. You have to think about balancing defense against offense. "If I cast my highest level spell, then I'm open to counters and can't react to any of them." This would make cantrips (zero level spells) really useful in high level play, because you could cast a bonus action spell, fire off a cantrip, and still have juice for a reaction spell. And once we're done fixing reaction features for casters, let's boost all martials with reaction features that give them something to do outside of their turn. In fact, more reaction abilities would make combat more dynamic and keep players focused outside of their turns. You could even throw in features that grant additional reactions, now that reaction spells are balance-able.
Do you not realize that this almost completely cripples spellcaster's reaction spells, not just Counterspell? A full caster will more than likely use leveled spells on the vast majority of their turns. Before, only few of these were bonus actions. With your proposed rule change, that means no more Absorb Elements, no more Shield, no more Feather Fall, no more Counterspell (for other purposes than just Counterspelling another Counterspell). Your problem with Counterspell is something that should be changed in the spell itself, not in the spell restriction rules.
I like the scaling of shillelagh. I assume its there because it makes it more favourable when compared to magic weapons. I was hoping they scale magic stone too.
Maybe have at 5th level that magic stone scales such that you can throw a stone as on the same bonus action you used to cast the spell. Maybe allow a bonus action to throw the stone at 11th level. And 17th level, you can get up to 6 stones per cast?
I think scaling the duration wouldn't provide much benefit, either. It's a cantrip bonus action, you can regularly cast it every thirty seconds outside of combat and ensure that it's active when any fight begins.
@@TreantmonksTempleyes but how many magic weapons are clubs or quarterstaves compared to the number of bladed weapons? I really don't see how allowing a druid to have access to a 1d12 1 handed wisdom based weapon at 11th level is broken. Currently wildshapes do not give bonus hp like they used to, not that 99% of wildshapes could use weapons anyway, so its not like having the d12 weapon is suddenly going to convince druids to march to the frontlines with their d8 hit dice. And as far ad non druids are concerned for the likes of magic initiate and the such I still believe booming blade and green flame blade are more attractive options for people that want to fight in melee.
Chill Touch probably should have been called "Touch of the Grave" or something of that sort from the beginning (or maybe 'Deathly Touch' in order not to break the traditional awkward naming scheme for spells, though it just leads to more awkwardness of another sort).
Chill Touch used to deal negative energy damage, which was cold, life draining, and death related thematically. It also slightly disrupted the undead's connection to the negative energy plane, scaring/disorientating them a bit, but not hurting them.
Or a Bonus Action because Gish builds want to keep their Reaction for Opportunity Attacks. But then again there's also Great Weapon Master to conflict there.
For Friends, you wouldn't be able to detect shapeshiftes (This was something that came up recently in one of my games). This is from XGtE: "If you cast a spell on someone or something that can't be affected by the spell, nothing happens to that target, but if you used a spell slot to cast the spell, the slot is still expended. If the spell normally has no effect on a target that succeeds on a saving throw, the invalid target appears to have succeeded on its saving throw, even though it didn't attempt one (giving no hint that the creature is in fact an invalid target). Otherwise, you perceive that the spell did nothing to the target." So, all the DM has to say is that they succeeded on the saving throw.
I don't know about Chill Touch. I'm one of the apparently very few people who milked the original dry. Just... Rename it Lich Slap and let's go. As a ranged Chill Touch fancier, I'm not happy about it being melee, or about the undead portion being gone. I always remembered it and you better be sure I tossed it left and right whenever undead were around. Also it made me stand out among all the Fire Bolt tossers. I'm just sad about it. I generally agree that spells should do what their name says. But muh toy! 😢 Other than that, yeah, great vid! Reached similar conclusions upon reading the doc. VERY happy about Produce Flame and Shillelagh as well. Though, Shillelagh has potential for abuse now.
The new Produce Flame works while you are Wildshaped if you cast it before transforming! Well, it depends on how binding the "hand" part of the flavor text is, but that's pretty cool, even if circumstantial.
But would the flame in the "hand" affect or add damage to an unarmed strike or wildshaped claw attack? It doesn't specifically say anything about that, so I'd guess that it doesn't. But, should it?
@@TreantmonksTemple "is no set definition for what qualifies as a "hand"" in science or in D&D? Because in science there sure is, a hand can grasp things (amongst other details), whereas a paw cannot. So monkeys have hands, not paws despite "monkey paw" being a thing in superstition. As a DM, if someone wanted to Wild Shape into a primate and they already had Produce Flamee cast, I'd let them contiue use it, but if the turned into a bear, cat or canine, I'd have it dispel.
The idea that you have to use your spellcasting ability for true strike is actually really interesting, since it makes it harder for classes that are foxused on str or dex to make use of them. I like this for true strike.
One more major limitation to Blade Ward you didn't cover is that you need to cast it BEFORE the attack roll is made, which makes it significantly worse.
I'm not sure the damage scaling on Shillelagh is powerful enough to worry about. It's scaling from 4.5 + mod average damage per attack to 7 + mod at level 17. But I'd love to see you try and break it.
@@jocelyngray6306And that's kind of the kicker and why I don't understand Chris's issues with it - even with the scaling, it's super niche. His main argument is that it shouldn't scale because he was under the impression that it's old design scaled around Extra Attack...as a Druid-exclusive spell, a class where not even any of its subclasses gain the EA feature. And *even then* it just turns a quarterstaff or club into at best greatsword damage at level 17...granted it is one-handed but again, and I can't stress this enough, level 17. Especially when a cantrip like Primal Savagery already exists and has actual scaling and a better damage die *at level 1* . Plus it's a bonus action to cast and isn't being used on a standard heavy weapon (if you are using it one-handed) so feats to boost melees that Chris uses constantly in his optimized builds for DPR calcs are off the table, *and* the spell is limited to just clubs and staves - not exactly common in the ways of big boy magic weapons, if the argument is then switched to casting Shillelagh on a magic weapon as if it's as egregious as what Blade Pact Warlocks can do. The only real issue that needs clarifying are what version of Magic Initiate is active in the playtest - Playtest 1 or PHB 2014? Because playtest MI is the reworked design for the new system but uses the now-removed shared spell lists and, as a result, let's you choose your casting ability score. If MI has reverted back to the PHB version (which I imagine it at least locks back strictly to the Druid spell list now again), the question is whether the ability to choose the ability score still sticks - if it's been reverted fully and you're stuck to the class ability score (so Wisdom), Shillelagh is still super niche, only really a thing if you go out of your way to spec for it. And even then, it's just a fun little build and nothing "gamebreaking."
ya this one hundred percent. Chris is awesome (thanks for the vids chris}and I love his content . I was just surprised on this take unless he is seeing something that I cannot . I don't get it either@@Mrryn
Chill Touch WAS cold damage in 3rd edition. We also didn't really have Necrotic damage back then either. (Negative Energy was a thing, but it was almost exclusively for monsters.)
It's morning, i just sat down with my coffee to watch this video... and i can confirm that morning coffee, revised cantrips, and a Teantmonk sub is the best way to start a day.
If they make the light 30/30, this would overshadow the Light cantrip (no pun intended). I think a cantrip who's sole purpose is to make light shouldn't produce less light than a little fireball in your hand. I think the 10/10 light was actually okay, IMO they should've made a different change - to be able to place the light somewhere instead of only carrying it with you. Or doing something like - when you attack a creature, after you hit or miss it, the little fireball remains on the spot/creature, shedding 10/10 light for 1 minute/until the end of your next turn/however long. The range buff was definitely needed.
Not so. The light cantrip has a lot of utility because it is cast on an object instead of "self" like produce flame. Increasing produce flames light to match it's attack range seems like common sense.
@@RedrumZombiesYou can use the Light cantrip to create an impromptu torch that can be used to help companions without Darksight or illuminate distant objects (up to 600 ft away if you cast it on an arrow). Produce Flame doesn't have that capability.
I was hoping True Strike would fall in line with the new variants of Guidance and Resistance. A cantrip that is cast on reaction using the D20 Test as the design shell based on a d4 bonus. Guidance = Skill Resistance = Save True Strike = Attack This new version of True Strike is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
My thoughts exactly. You can do this, and repurpose this design for a new cantrip Also, I like the Blade Ward suggestion, it falls in line exactly where I think the power of a cantrip should be
@@marcos2492 I do not think that adding a d4 as a reaction on a failed attack is broken. I've been play testing that along with Guidance and Resistance. So far it only turns a miss into a hit about 50% of the time.
It really feels like they didn't do it because it would have benefited martials instead of making arcane casters more independent. Adding a d4 to an attack roll is generally far less dramatic than adding it to a save, too. Even Blade Ward becoming a reaction and keeping its range of "Self" instead of something you can cast on others (whether as an action or a reaction) feels like it follows that logic of arcane caster self-sufficiency.
i disagree with you on shilelagh. It's a druid cantrip. Druids don't get extra attacks. Most casters don't. The only ones who do are martials. And martials have weapons with these damage types already. It's just a small buff for druids using weapon attacks at high levels.
At level 1 every character can take Magic Initiate: Druid (former Primal), pick Shillelagh and choose between WIS, INT and CHA as the spellcasting ability. So every Martial character can take Shillelagh. Especially Paladins. In wich the spell is probably too powerfull as it is. Eldritch Knights with Shillelagh (INT) and True Strike seem also too good... I love Shillelagh! But yea theese changes seem problematic. My suggestion would be: give the caster an extra attack with the weapon at level 11, wich doesn't scale with any other extra attacks.
@@DieinnereStimme a martial can already use a d12 or 2d6 weapon from level one. Shilelagh doesn't add anything to a martial. Meanwhile on a caster it's 1 attack per round for 2 extra damage. Casters gonna cast over shillelagh. Not a problem
even if we grant it ups a martial from 1d8 to 2d6... that's 3 points of damage at level 17 at the opportunity cost of a whole feat. Not a game changer.
@@kennyostrom3098 Yeah i never said it was hard to get on a martial. I said it doesn't matter on a martial. Martials have weapons from level 1 that can do 1d12 or 2d6 damage. 17 levels of investment, and a feat, to change a d8 weapon die to a 2d6 weapon die is, on average, 3 points of damage. Not a game balance concern.
Personally I think Spare the Dying should scale 30,60,90,120 so the range earlier larger than that of healing spells, and True strike should only replace the attack roll and scale by giving a +1/+2/+3 to that attack (doesnt stack with a bonus from a magic weapon)
Shillelagh could be a weapon attack cantrip like GFB, BB and True Strike It’s unique thing could be that it grants an additional attack with the same action at level 5, bonus damage at 11, and bonus range at 17
Acid Splash- in a 10ft wide hallway, if your front liners can jam them up (halt their advance with sentinel, just blocking the hallway, or some other means) you can get at least 1 four target acid spray off.
Fixes for UA 8 Cantrips: Acid Splash: Add to Artificer, Druid, Ranger, and Warlock Spell Lists Blade Ward: Reaction is great, put back to Resistance to All Piercing/Slashing/Bludgeoning Weapon Damage... the Spell is called Blade Ward, not Melee Crippling, it should be warding off some of the damage, not cancelling Sneak Attack, not impeding Inflict Wounds and Booming Blade, not being useless against thrown daggers and hurled axes. Chill Touch: Should be splint into two spells; actual Chill Touch, is a Touch Attack (which Blade Ward should not give Disadvantage), causes 1d10 COLD Damage, slows the target by 10x half the damage dealt; Ghostly Grasp, is a 120 ft ranged spell attack, deals 1d8 Necrotic damage, target can't regain HP until the start of your next turn, if it hits Undead they have disadvantage on all attack rolls and saves until the end of your next turn. Friends: New version is okay, but it shouldn't auto succeed for any of those reasons. Humanoid (so Fey, like Goblins, Centaurs, and Changelings; Monstrosities, like Thri-Kreen and Minotaurs; Oozes like Plasmoids; Constructs like Autognomes; all immune) is silly... races resistant to Charm like Elves and Most Fey will get the Advantage; being able to turn a foe to a Friend is the whole point of the spell, so while it makes sense for someone to have advantage on the save, immunity doesn't make sense; having used the spell successfully should not make someone immune to the spell, having used the spell and failed should, so while someone who has been affected should maybe have advantage, they shouldn't be immune unless they have succeeded on the save in the past 24 hours... so, fix, replace Automatically Save with Advantage, add Immune for 24 Hours after successfully succeeding. Poison Spray: Okay... buff for Yuan-Ti, but sure... seems fine. Produce Flames: Looks great... btw, the reason to not make it have 30ft/30ft range is because it is an alternate spell option to Light for certain backgrounds, so for Light to have greater value, it needs to not surpass the range cast by light, and since cantrips can be cast at will outside of combat, 10 minutes and 1 hour hold little difference except Light can be cast on random objects (like a brick in the wall, an empty sconce, or a statue's sword, while produce flame can only help light torches or has to be held by the caster, the added combat benefit of Produce Flame already makes it generally a better choice than Light and now with equal light range it makes Produce Flame even more tempting if you have to choose) Shillelagh: IT NEEDED THE DAMAGE PROGRESSION, actually, still needs an adjustment, should be 1d8, 1d10 (5th), 2d6 (11th), 2d8 (17th). Yes, it can be stacked, so can a Paladin with a Smite and a Smite Spell and Booming Blade Cantrip... stacking is supposed to happen, Shillelagh is meant to be a Druid or Ranger's Melee Combat Option, and should scale... we should be elevating all classes, not nerfing a bunch to make them all as shitty as Rangers and Champion Fighters... Shocking Grasp: No, F, put back the metal advantage (actually, correct it so it says if they have armor made of metal or are made of metal themselves) and all reactions... So what if it makes the Boss Monster not able to take a ton of TPK abilities... the DM can do whatever they want... it is to the START of the creature's next turn, not the END of yours... so if you go right before the creature, the only thing it does is prevents reactions on your turn anyway, it just paints a bigger target on your back that it needs to remove you from the fight to shutdown that issue... Warlocks, Feat granted Spellcasting, even Wizards, Sorcerers, Druids, and Clerics after a few encounters depend on Cantrips, they are supposed to be desirable to use them... if you remove the spell slot limitations, and simply say Wizards are limited to the options in their spellbooks, Clerics and Druids are limited to the ones they prepared, and Sorcerers and Warlocks are limited to the spells they know, and the can cast them as much as they like, then, sure, nerf cantrips, but otherwise, keep Cantrips viable (especially late game). Spare the Dying: The new version is great, except it completely eliminates the Grave Cleric's real benefit. The solution is no to undo this change to the Cantrip, it is better this way... the solution is replace the Grave Cleric feature with one that still grants them Spare the Dying as a Bonus Cantrip, still lets them cast it as a bonus action (plus add, or as an Action or Reaction), but additionally multiplies the range of all healing spells including Spare the Dying by their Proficiency Modifier, making them masters of healing at range. True Strike: The new version is great, except it needs to be on the Druid Spell List, and granted to Rangers when they reach level 2 (yeah, this should be an option for Rangers... you know, the guys who should have AIM, but instead Rogues got it... this would allow Rangers to Hunter's Mark, True Strike, Shoot, trading extra attack after level 5 for more focused damage, and doing magical damage earlier than most Martials can, to compensate for even with this, still being the shittiest base class).
I really like that True Strike works with ranged attacks, that's a great niche for a weapon cantrip. Maybe if you didn't add your Spellcasting Modifier to the damage it would be balanced? Though maybe that's just firebolt with extra steps again...
I don’t like friends using the charmed condition because that feels like a thing that would actually piss people off once they realize they were charmed. It should reference the social rules of friendly/indifferent/hostile since they will be printed in the PHB, and say: You magically emanate a sense of friendship toward one visible creature within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or there attitude shifts by one towards friendly for the duration of the spell. If the target is hostile it gets advantage on the save and if it isn’t a humanoid, is in combat against you, or you’ve already cast this spell on it in the past 24 hours it automatically succeeds. If the target fails and was already friendly you gain advantage on deception, intimidation, and persuasion checks. I think this is as clean design wise it can be as a social cantrip. There’s nothing that in role play would justify the target getting upset while actively making targets more friendly or suggestionable. It would just be chocked up to the caster being charismatic and convincing, and I’m sure we’ve all experienced or seen something like this happen before irl. Plus it really might help newer tables to navigate social encounters by having a mechanical spell actually reference the printed social encounter rules
Not sure that shillelagh damage scaling is an issue of being too strong... A druid picking up enough levels in another class to get to Extra Attack, or a martial class picking up a druid cantrip (and having enough in a spellcasting stat to make it worthwhile) seem like edge cases. Increased duration is blah. Saves the first bonus action in combat maybe every few encounters unless your casting it out of combat regularly, in which case you could (very annoyingly) to that already with the 1 min duration.
I’ll miss the old blade ward. Call me crazy, I mean the new version is better, but I liked making a blade singer that could effectively rage. I was excited to try it with the new eldritch knight, giving up an attack for resistance for a round was awesome. And better since they are backing off of “magical” damage. Even with a wizard, if I’m doing good damage already with Animated Objects or a summon, I liked staying back and casting blade ward for a little extra protection. I agree the new version is just disadvantage on one attack, it’s not broken. But it will be a must have cantrip, especially if Magic initiate is a 1st level feat. And with the way they are throwing around advantage, will cancelling it with disadvantage from blade ward really be worth a reaction? Just some thoughts, I’ll miss the quasi rage that was the old blade ward. Sorry Earth Genasi
Hopefully they're eventually going to fix the wording of Create Bonfire so we know how much light it's supposed to be producing. For pre-update Chill Touch, I feel like maybe they were trying to be flowery and poetic with the name, like "the target is touched by the chill of the grave," or something.
The average damage for a d10, d12, and 2d6 is 5.5, 6.5, and 7 respectively. So it may seem a bit weird, but we should keep in mind that 2d6 has a much lower variance around its average than a d12. I remember this clearly from Earthdawn Steps, and their meaning. :)
I get the sense that the designers are thinking in terms of context-free cantrip balance here rather than "How good is this as a Druid cantrip (or any other class cantrip that gets it)?" That's less of an issue with the arcane casters, but specifically looking at the Druid, there's always been something of an issue in my mind that there's no basic 'go-to' cantrip for most situations that isn't terrible or overly situational. These changes don't seem to fix that. Produce flame is now more flexible out of combat but would require me to use both my Bonus Action and my Action every turn I want to use it as a normal damage cantrip. For a Druid, who often has continuous action or bonus action spells from concentration going, that's not something I want to worry about. Poison spray I would argue doesn't make much sense either thematically or mechanically as the druid's go-to; most druids are sworn to fight undead after all, and poison isn't doing anything against them. (I would argue that the necromancy school switch doesn't make sense thematically either, especially for a Druid, but I'll leave it at that.) And of course there is the range issue - I don't know why the designers seem to want druids to get up closer to enemies than other casters when the playtests have been removing defenses (armor proficiency) from them. Speaking of getting up close, this Shillelagh change seems designed to benefit non-druid builds who might use it (i.e., classes who get extra attack, like monk or ranger) moreso than it benefits Druids themselves, which it is supposed to be an iconically Druid cantrip. And it still isn't a great cantrip choice beyond low levels for Druids. This almost makes me wish that they would return to the idea of making certain cantrips class features. If Produce Flame and Shillelagh are intended to primarily be used by the Druid and to be iconic for them, make them class features and then make them actually reliably bread-and-butter *for Druids*.
I dislike the idea of locking cantrips entirely behind taking a level in the class. Iconic ones for a class should be better on them, but they should still be accessible with a feat, race or a subclass for just about anyone. Produce flame might have some interactions with wild shape (aka can still be used while doing so) already, which already makes it more useful for druids than other options. Perhaps with some adjustments shillelagh might still be good for non-druids, but allows druids to get more out of it. I'm not sure quite was this change would be, without directly saying "bonus if a druid uses this" or making a "druid-only feat/class feature" that buffs it. Although either of those wouldn't be unwelcome.
@@TerminalDevastation Yes, I suppose I'd be fine with additional features that added bonuses for Druids using their iconic cantrips, so long as those features aren't counted against the feature budget of the class as a whole (though I have a feeling that they would be). But then again, if they were intended to be the go-to cantrips for Druid from the beginning, it would be more elegant if their base design made them especially well-suited to the Druid class mechanically compared with others.
Produce Flame lasts for 10 minutes, so it only costs a bonus action once, since the spell never ends. If you're in the dark, you probably already had it active anyway.
Chill Touch becoming a touch spell actually makes the disadvantage on attack rolls matter A LOT more. In 5e, an undead only had disadvantage on its attacks against you, but since Chill Touch was a ranged cantrip, that rarely came into play; but now that it's a melee cantrip, it could become a fantastic panic button for a very narrow case, basically a more circumstantial Shocking Grasp. As for Shocking Grasp, rather than an extra average point of damage, I would indeed prefer the advantage on enemies wearing metal armor being reintroduced, only now it also applies to enemies that are made of metal. It's circumstantial but unique, and it does make the cantrip more reliable in a few cases. The thing with these two spells is that you probably aren't going to wade into melee to cast them, and blade cantrips are infinitely better if you want melee damage options, so imo their being counteroffensive panic buttons should be encouraged.
The coffee analogy is pretty great. I have been sick and waking up was pretty hard this morning but I was able to do it when I saw a new Treantmonk video. Thanks for posting so early in the morning!
I'm personally fine with the damage of Shillelagh scaling, since it is very restrictive with regards to what weapon you can use. If Shillelagh could work on any weapon like the Bladelock's Pact weapon, sure, damage scaling the weapon could become a problem, but it's club and quarterstaff only. There are some shenanigans someone could get up to with a Wisdom-focused melee Ranger in a Curse of Strahd campaign getting the cantrip through a variety of means and grabbing the Gulthias Staff, but unless the DM is handing out really powerful magic clubs and quarterstaves I don't think it's really that big of a deal.
@@Staff7I genuinely think Chris has an issue with gish builds tbh. I stand by that even the Bladelock stuff in the playtest isn't even that bad, even the 3rd Extra Attack from Thirsting Blade - the issue is Lifedrinker using dice and Eldritch Smite, which leads to these dumb old Paladin "burn everything on a crit" builds which was why the playtest Paladin Smite was reworked so much. I genuinely believe that if Eldritch Smite wasn't an invocation option, or if it followed the reworked Paladin Smite rules and took a bonus action, it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar. Even in the playtest game he was in, the Bladelock was outdamaged by the Swashbuckler in the first combat and only put up crazy DPR numbers because he dropped a crit bomb in the second fight, but Chris tried to present the 1st combat as some surprising anomaly and the 2nd combat like "ah see, look at the problem child, just like I said." It wouldn't surprise me if Chris just saw this redesign for Shillelagh and immediately connected it to the changes to the Blade Pact invocations and got hit with PTSD in his response without actually giving deeper thought into the spell and how restrictive it is, both in its language/limitations and in how limited access it is as well. The only ones you can maybe see are builds like the Eldritch Knight who want a lightsaber or Tomelocks/Clerics who want a melee option, but the latter don't have Extra Attack they can utilize (as Chris called it) the "original scaling of the cantrip" and the former can just utilize Shadow Blade and/or ranged weapons with True Strike just as well if not better and without having to use a feat.
I would say I am actually extremely surprised that shocking grasp lost all reactions and chill touch didn’t receive any reduction on the removal of hit point regeneration. I think I would’ve liked to see chill touch reduce half the healing and open up space for more regeneration properties within monsters and perhaps other necromancy leveled spells remove healing fully. While I know this would be an objective nerf, I think it would open up a lot for monster/encounter designs. I would’ve loved if true strike worked like another blade cantrip and then worked like a lesser version of guiding bolt. Perhaps when you hit the enemy, the next attack gained a 1d4 to their attack roll. I’d like to see the sword cantrips get reprinted and would love to see primal savagery get something to compete against chill touch.
Good point that Primal Savagery also needs a rider to do something else besides damage. Chill Touch would make a lot of sense on the Druid and Cleric spell lists though, and they would be more likely to use it than most Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards.
@@DieinnereStimme oh I am aware for sure, I just think in terms of modern design it doesn’t have a rider for its damage and it’s only current advantage is acid damage and being on a Druid list. I think it needs a little more especially if they don’t have plans to reduce the power of chill touch’s negation of health regeneration
Shillelaghs scaleing is just upgrading the damage dice of the weapon so a 1d6 one handed quarterstaff goes to a 1d8 like Morningstar or rapier then it goes to a 1d10 like a Glaive or a Halberd then it goes to a 1d12 like a Greataxe or a lance then it goes to 2d6 like a Greatsword or a Maul if you have a problem with it getting pared with extra attack you have a problem with Greatswords at lv5 much less lv17
I think it's interesting that there are 2 schools of thought on Shillelagh. 1 is that it's a really good cantrip, period. It doesn't need cantrip scaling. The other is that it's good at low levels because it can hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons, and this provides that, and uses your spellcasting modifier, which can be better if you're a spellcaster, but you should swap it out in the 2nd Tier of play for something that scales. Outside of tier 1 it's just not very good, and I can't figure out the arguments saying it is. I mean... maybe some combination of PAM Bugbear Gloomstalker Ranger with a high wisdom using Hunter's Mark and Booming Blade and a couple levels of Fighter for Action Surge, but I'd argue Shillelagh is the smallest buff in there. I just don't see it. We have a homebrew version of Shillelagh that makes it a +1 weapon at 5th, +2 at 11th, and +3 at 17th, and that barely makes it worth keeping at higher levels. The d10, d12, 2d6 still isn't worth keeping it rather than swapping it out for pretty much anything else unless you go for a VERY specialized build.
Produce flame is effectively a spell like torch now, since the torch as an adventuring tool is 20 foot bright and 20 foot dim light. For Shillelagh I like the damage scale, for making casters more inline with fighter types, giving a more none spell cast attack type. I love how they updated True Strike, expesally since it doesn't say it has to be a melee weapon, it can be any weapon if your proficient. A good build using shillelagh and produce flame would be a green mermaid, who gets a druid cantrip, with a nature domain cleric, granting a second druid cantrip, now you get both to use. Not a super powerful build, but it gives the idea of a druidic cleric.
Worth noting on Acid Splash, making it Evocation allows Evocation Wizards to prevent damage against allies who may happen to be in the AoE. This goes hand in hand with the change in the wording to be a 5ft sphere being to shoot it into melee. We can now have an Evocation wizard cast this into an area of melee combat without hurting the fighter. Niche interaction, but those are half the fun of D&D, imo.
I think the reason for the school changes is also for wizard subclasses, evoker benefits from evoker spells and necromancy would want a ranged necromancy cantrip, there's some implication that cloudkill will be necromancy to get all the poisons into necro.
They lack imagination. True strike (bonus action): You choose a target that have to make a CHA save with Advantage, if they fail you gain advantage for your next attack.
"Using a necrotic spell against undead often means it's immune to the damage"... usually only if it's incorporeal. The vast majority of undead creatures are not incorporeal and not immune. There are some more powerful undead that are resistant, but not immune.
@@TxSonofLiberty It's because necrotic damage is negative energy, and their body is animated with negative energy. It's like trying to wilt a wilted plant.
Just some ideas; True Strike: take away damage scaling and add: "If the attack would normally be made with disadvantage it is not." Alternately, reduce tye scaling to 1d4.
I think the d4 damage scaling is a good idea. I don’t think the low-level version is as good as people think. If you are a member of a class that can get this cantrip and you didn’t take the Lightly Armored feat (which I think is bad for the game, but that’s neither here nor there) your Dex is likely 16, and I haven’t seen any objections to my Level 1 wizard shooting stuff with a crossbow. In fact, I think far too often a tier 1 caster is firing off cantrips when they should take a look at their weapon proficiencies.
Woot new Produce Flame with a dragon born druid. Cast produce flame, "hold it in your mouth", shapeshift ( Lizard ). Behold I am Tad Cooper, son of Trogdor, he who breaths flaming death and frightens small farm animals!
I would have loved for Spare the Dying to shorten the time it takes an unconscious character to wake up with 1 hit point. It may not happen often at higher levels, but it does feel a bit bad that a player may have to sit out the game for 1d4 hours in-game.
Chill touch had the healing prevention rider already, so to me cutting the range so drastically seems like a pretty big nerf, which isn’t offset but changing to a d10 damage die. I agree the name is misleading, but I think they could have just changed the name to be clearer. “Call of the grave”, “Soul drain” come to mind as options.
At my table Blade Ward provides resistance to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage from an attack as a reaction. I like it better than a disadvantage, which can entirely negate damage. for rogues it also counters their sneak attack, which they won’t get even if they hit, madly reducing their damage. A tiny bit too powerful. We’ll keep the resistance.
PRODUCE FLAME: Cannot be used to light a pipe or a campfire or anything as part of the bonus action. It does not say that it lights target on fire. (Same as original) Can hold flame in hand for 10 minutes with no concentration and make an attack each turn (Making an attack does not end the spell duration) Was this intended. Also, creates a bit of a larger area of light.
If you increase the range on the Produce Flame, not only do you make it no longer the same as a torch, you also make it equivalent in illumination to a Light cantrip, plus it does fire damage.
Love the Acid Splash changes, Blade Ward should scale with attack amounts in my opinion (2 Attacks at Level 5, 3 at 11, etc.). Friends is one that I have a hard time wrapping my head around but maybe it could just be more similar to calm emotions where it might prevent a creature from joining the combat. True Strike should only do your spellcasting modifier in damage because it feels like it is better than martials' attacks at early levels. I think defensive scaling and utility scaling on cantrips make them much more valuable for half-casters like Rangers or Arcane tricksters and I think that would let them feel much better in the game. I also think that there should be cantrips for every shape that spells are cast within the game. AOE spell shapes are better to get used to playing around at the very start of the game for new players. Still need to buff martials and monks though, especially with most of these spell upgrades.
make shocking graps take away a number of reactions equal half your casting ability modifier, rounded down. It scales passively, and its easy to be at a point when an enemy is not invalidated.
honestly I would go with "non-magical weapons gain a +1 to attack and damage rolls at 5th level (increasing to+2 at 11th level, and +3 at 17th)" with Shillelagh's scaling myself, but yeah agree with you on pretty much everything here.
@Staff7 Character level you mean? A fighter could get the cantrip through a feat or multiclass and have a d12 damage die on one handed weapon by level 11. That's strong.
@@neilm838not really, if a fighter is sacrificing a feat/ability score at level 12 to multi-class to get a cantrip to get a d12 weapon attack it'll be barely noticeable.
I know “spell names and levels will be the same as before” but chill touch should be called touch of the grave now. If its not going to be touch then idk. The new spell is powered appropriately just the name still isn’t.
Yes. I wish WotC would have renamed Chill Touch to something like Bigby's Hand of Corruption or some such and then designed a new cold damage touch spell and called it Chill Touch instead.
I wish Blade Ward was a Cleric/Druid spell instead. I feel like the current version of it is much more at home with that kind of protective class than a Wizard.
Thanks for the vid. I modded in a different version of true strike for bg3. For wpn attacks use a reaction to add prof bonus to attack roll. Been good with my playthrough. I might add in the new blade ward for my next playthrough
I think shocking grasp should mantain the same as before, but the reaction loss should be a saving throw, maybe constitution, and the effect can't be suffered in 2 consecutive rounds. That should do it.
Given that a spell like Zone of Truth specifically tells you that you know if they saved or not (and not as reminder text), I assumed the the default is that players don't know if their target succeeds. Sometimes, however, it's obvious or is obvious enough that it makes sense to describe it in a way that tells them they succeeded the save (like someone saving against Hold Person not being paralyzed or someone saving against a Fireball throwing up a cloak at the last moment to protect themselves).
@@TreantmonksTemple The biggest issue is Sculpt Spells is now level 6, and not 2, as it was swapped with Potent Cantrip (which was also nicely buffed to include attack roll spells not just saving throw spells). I can say that I wish I had SS at level 2 on my playtest wizard, I ended up Acid Splashing my barbarian party mate at the same time as 3 bandits who were surrounding him. Looking forward to your playtest 7 wizard video whenever you get around to it!
Chill touch interacting with undead is making up for undead being resilient against necrotic. Just because a new player overlooks that, that does not mean it is bad.
I think that True Strike working with ranged weapons is fine. Yes, it does end up being slightly better than the alternatives, but not by that much, you wouldn't really feel bad if you pick normal cantrips for a more roleplay purpose. Plus it comes with an issue of weapon juggling, depending on what other stuff you have, it can get pretty annoying. Most notably, you can't use a shield together with a ranged weapon, unlike with a normal cantrip. As for magical weapons - yes, you can find some, but you can also find items that boost your spell attacks and DC, so it's a wash.
Damage scaling for shillelagh matters less if you make the same change wotc made with true strike. Instead of "you can use your spellcasting ability modifier" switch it to "your attacks use your spell casting ability modifier." This makes most classes that try to use this mad. Even if they don't change the wording the extra average damage of 2.5-7.5 with multiattack at 17th level isn't going to break the game. Most martials are going to have a magic weapon at that point which makes this spell less appealing.
First, chill touch isn't the only necromancy/necrotic damage cantrip, thanks to toll the dead. Second, I love the idea of a warlock taking both pact of the blade and agonizing cantrip for this new version of true strike (I don't think "agonizing blast" is appropriate if it can be used on more than just EB). That way, the pact of the blade can do two-weapon fighting using their charisma. Maybe if celestial patron got true strike for free, alongside light and sacred flame, it might b a little more appealing, and even then, I still think it needs more oomph.
Produce Flame would be an interesting cantrip if it created a flaming thrown weapon that used Dexterity for attack rolls and damage rolls. It would give a cantrip that would be great for Arcane Tricksters or Dex based Eldritch Knights.
RAW it says you can use your spell casting modifier, not that you must. Requiring it to use an WIS, CHA, or INT or mandating that it use WIS (since it is a druid exclusive) would make it less enticing to other classes.
@@XanderHarris1023 The description of the cantrip specifies that casting it as a Magic action, which indicates to me that you must use your casting stat. There is no text allowing you to use the flame as a weapon attack as it stands. It also specifies a ranged spell attack. I can't really justify the use of the cantrip to make a thrown weapon attack. Is there some text or rule I am missing here? I am not sure why I would take this as it stands over, say, Fire Bolt, unless I was really trying to squeeze in a magical attack and a light source from a limited cantrip pool. If it could be used as a weapon attack then it would support hybrids in a way that doesn't currently exist.
Correction: Chill Touch is not the only necrotic damage cantrip, Toll the Dead is also.
Yep, forgot about TtD
@@TreantmonksTemplealso, Blade Ward works on any melee attack, not just melee weapon attacks.
@@charlessaintpe8574pLay patty cake with that vampiric melee spell attack
@@charlessaintpe8574
Bladeward against thorn whip?
Toll the dead is in xanathars so it's the only in phb. I'm still sad to see my magic trench shovel not being brought over(mold earth).
I'm excited for True Strike, it feels like it unlocks new build options. An Arcane Trickster with Int as the primary stat. A new option for Bladesinger with Shadow Blade. Etc.
Artificers who don't get extra attack make good use of it too if they want to use weapons
Part of me still wishes they just made it a bonus action and applied it to all attack rolls. Having a pay it forward take aim that would enhance leveled spell attacks consistency or for arcane trickster it would add a sort of paid forward take aim. Letting you take it when you're melee rouge hits their first attack is already confirmed on it, ensuring advantage on opportunity attacks or attacks on the next round at no bonus action cost.
I know this is probably better balanced but I do think the idea of the old one was sorta interesting, even if objectively bad in every use case.
I'm not sure that Arcane Tricksters and Bladesingers won't still want a good amount of Dex, and irregardless they'd both probably still prefer Greenflame/Booming Blade when they're available in the campaign. But I do agree that the new Truestrike does open up new possibilities for Medium or Heavy armor primary casters, or substitutes as "good enough" in PHB-only campaigns.
But it doesnt work with extra attack. A shame.
Yeah, my Sorcerer can finally have a decent melee option when he gets trapped in melee range!
As to Bladesingers/ Shadow Blade, that spell isn't supposed to interact with cantrips like Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, so I imagine they don't intend for it to work with this either.
I wish this new True Strike would be available to Clerics a well.
They seem more likely to swing a weapon. And are the ones I usually think of when radiant damage is involved.
Right? This would make it the perfect cleric weapon cantrip I've always wanted, instead of just letting them have booming blade like I'd usually do.
We haven't got the new version of magic initiate yet but I would assume with classes going back to class list so will the feat. The only thing is will it still keep the choose casting stat part. That's my plan for my heavy crossbow war cleric.
WOTC has been scared giving them a gish cantrip given they are already gishy by default. Not saying it's right, but I know many DMs who complain like "Clerics shouldn't be able to use their WIS for atk/dmg rolls so easilt. They are already so strong!"
That's my educated guess on why Clerics don't get the gish cantrips at all.
Everyone can grab Magic Initiate as their free feat at level 1 now, and they fixed that to work with your casting stat of choice.
With it being Radiant damage, I feel like it would make sense to be available to Clerics, but with it only available to Wizards, Sorcs, Warlocks, and Bards, I feel like it should do Force instead of Radiant
With Acid Splash, making it an Evocation is actually a major buff, even if just for one subclass. The Evoker can now at level 10 add their INT to it's damage. Still not a major change, but it makes the Evoker love this cantrip as a small AoE, save or half spell that deals a rarely resisted damage type
Didn’t they also change Potent cantrip to be a level 3 class feature? So this would happen even earlier.
It also lets it work with sculpt spell. The change to evocation seems specifically designed to make it work better with the evocation school imo.
I'd like them to also add to this spell that it can damage objects. It just makes sense. If you need to melt some bars, or a lock, or whatever...
I think Chill Touch is actually not that far off thematically from necrotic damage. You know, Chill of the grave and all that. Otherwise, we'd also have to change Toll the Dead to thunder damage instead of necrotic.
I'd rather just see them change the name of Chill Touch to Chill of the Grave and leave it as is.
It's my favourite ranged cantrip because it's cool and has done me a solid against many regenerating foes where testing for what might stop the regen or healing would have been a pain.
Also, if your DM allows attacking objects, it's good for decaying a dead enemy into dust which you can Prestidigitate away... not that I'm guilty of that. 👀
@@probablythedm1669I like the new version because there is an absolute paucity of touch range spells in this game. But I'd be totally down to keep the old version around as an additional spell with a better name
Touch of the Grave makes most sense to me, if kept as Necrotic.
@@RJWhitmore yeah, that's true. But I just meant that Chill, if you squint hard enough, isn't too far off from a necrotic theme.
Necrotic Touch would be the best renaming IMO.
@Treantmonk's Temple 10:10 Blade Ward only says melee attack, not melee weapon attack. So technically, this works against spells like Inflict Wounds and Vampiric Touch.
At 1:50pm this afternoon, I was exhausted. Maybe the CON boost of my morning coffee had lapsed, or perhaps I failed a save against a bad case of The Mondays. But either way, I was in dire straits.
At 1:51pm, I received a notification that Treantmonk posted a new video on Patreon. Oh sweet day! What a beautiful world! Perhaps if I had been made to wait another day for this video, I might never have recovered. I might have developed a snowballing case of anxiety over future Mondays, leading to eventual and certain ruin.
But that didn’t happen. I got the video on Monday afternoon. How? Because I spent $3 this month for timely content, and I’ll be damned if it wasn’t the right call.
A story as old as time
I did a playtest with a third level Eldritch Knight using the new cantrips. For the one shot I took Bladeward for a reliable reaction and Friends since I imagined it working well with Tactical Mind in social situations.
Bladeward was my go to reaction and it saved me a ton of damage, during one particularly difficult fight I can guarantee I would have died without the cantrip because of the way Roll20 displays rolls. I’d say this is a fantastic cantrip for anyone who’s not got enough spell slots to cast shield consistently.
Friends, unsurprisingly, didn’t come up in the dungeon I was in. I considered using it on the boss prior to combat but it hadn’t detected us yet and I figured a surprise round of attacks would be more valuable than trying to parlay. No conclusion on Friends, I just chose the wrong tool that particular job.
Noticing that a few spells changed into evocation or necrotic makes a lot of sense when you realize that those are the 2 schools of magic whose cantrips become stronger with certain subclasses (Evoker Wizard and Death Cleric)
Can't believe i missed the fact that new produce flame doesn't end when you make the attack. Very nice touch
The funny thing is that you didn't need to end it before. It's a spell with a 10 minute duration and NO CONCENTRATION (caps for emphasis, not volume). The spell doesn't end if you cast it a second time and use that one for a projectile. The first casting just sits underneath the second one until the second one ends, and then the first one works again. It was never an issue to begin with. Now they've nerfed a good spell by making it take a bonus action.
@@carsonrush3352 I see what you mean, but that's getting into the area where it's highly subjective wether you're allowed to do that. A dm could easily say you can't have two separate flames on the same hand for instance.
I liked BG3's approach to Chill Touch: Keep it the same but rename it to Bone Chill. I don't mind the playtest version but quite liked having a 120ft attack cantrip that wasn't Fire Bolt or one of the class-exclusive ones.
One thing that's always bothered me about Spare the Dying is that stabilising someone denies them the possibility of rolling a nat 20 and standing back up. It's something I like to house-rule when I'm DMing - roll the death saves anyway just in case it's a 20.
As someone who generally dislikes the blade cantrips, I actually really like the new True Strike. It feels good to open up gishy builds that use spellcasting attribute to attack without having to dip warlock or spend a feat to pick up an invocation. I do worry about it becoming the default attack can’t rip choice though.
I had a similar thought, but I'm not "worried" about it insofar as what's there to worry about? It's not game-breaking, and there are still plenty of reasons to take the other cantrips instead. It may be the top-tier damage choice at low to mid levels, but it ceases to function if you lose your weapon, which is a restriction other cantrips lack. It's single-target, and doesn't apply any conditions. I think it's fine.
Yeah I also think it's fine but for a different reason. Normally what I see is players wanting to use different things in different turns, specially try all those different and fun spells. Can't picture a typical wizard player swinging a weapon with magic over and over again in combat without doing anything else
It requires proficiency with the weapon. That's a pretty sizable restriction that will prevent it from being the default, as martials will just attack with the weapon anyway, and casters won't likely have proficiency with a weapon that makes it matter. It also doesn't seem to work with the Extra Attack feature, meaning martials won't be abusing its extra damage because it straight up won't be more damage than just attacking.
I think it's exactly where it needs to be... a star in one niche, but mediocre or useless elsewhere.
I like Shillelagh’s scaling. It gives the incredibly niche Wisdom-focused Druidic warrior build a way to do some solid and even really good melee damage. 2d6 is arguably an improvement over 1d12 because it has a larger minimum damage threshold, but has the same amount of maximum threshold. So it’s a small, negligible amount that only optimizers and minmaxers care about, increase, but an increase nonetheless.
Who else is going to use it? Fighters? When was the last time you saw a Fighter focused on Wisdom? A Monk that didn’t focus on Dexterity? A Barbarian that didn’t have a 20+ in Strength and a Wisdom score higher than maybe 12?
Shelly says you *can* use wisdom, not you *do* use wisdom. I've also had an idea tumbling around in my head for a beast master ranger that full-invests in wisdom to improve the beast's damage output, which this would be crazy on.
I was about to make this same point. It seems hard to break. My first thought was a nature domain cleric/fighter. But that just allows it to keep pace with the damage a more typical fighter could dish out.
Maybe a Pact of the Tome Warlock/Paladin? That would make shillelagh CHA based. It seems like more trouble than a straight up hexblade/paladin, though.
@@ilovethelegendTechnically, yes. It CAN be But in practice, it's almost always going to be Wisdom (with some exceptions that slip my mind currently). It's a Druid-exclusive spell.
If you get it from a dip into Druid, it's going to be Wisdom. No "if"s, "and"s, or "but"s about it. If you get it from Magic Initiate, it's going to be Wisdom. If you get it from Warlock... what're you doing? Take Blade Pact. That's gonna use your spellcasting ability modifier now, but on *any* weapon and I believe you can make it Force. And at that point, you can flavor it to be some brand of nature-y.
Magic Initiate's spellcasting ability depends on the class you chose. It might've changed in a UA and I forgot, but short of that, it's going to be Wisdom.
It also helps Wisdom based Rangers with Druidic Magic Fighting Style, but I still think it should be 2d6 not 1d12, and 2d8 not 2d6, for levels 11 and 17 respectively... at level 17, 2-16+Spellcasting Mod Damage is not going to break the game... at level 11, 2-12+Spellcasting Mod is not a major difference than 1-12+Spellcasting Mod Damage.
And Rangers aren't going to break the game with a whopping two attacks per turn using Shillelagh... or even True Strike and Shillelagh (oooo, scary), or even True Strike (or Zephyr Strike... actually, Zephyr Strike needs to get a boost to be advantage on the first attack each round as long as the spell lasts and add the 1d8 force), Shillelagh, and a previous round cast Hunter's Mark (can't be done with Zephyr Strike, can be done with True Strike).
Another thing I forgot to add: A bigger duration would be pointless for Shillelagh. It already lasts a minute without concentration, which is usually more than enough for a single fight for a buff like that.
I won't lie, I am a person who has loved produce flame for the flavor, rather than the mechanics. and I LOVE the changes to it
Produce Flame, Shillelagh, and Magic Stone cause a common rules argument with your DM. Specifically when you activate either with your Bonus Action and then try to follow it up by casting a leveled spell with your Action. I hope the inconsequential rule on Bonus Action Spellcasting (PH p202) is replaced with a more general rule that you can only cast one spell of level 1 or higher per turn. That would make the changes to Action Surge and Quickened Spell obsolete and prevent the silly situation where you’re able to counterspell Counterspell against your own spell (unless you’re casting said spell with your Bonus Action). It has never made sense that you’re able to cast Counterspell in the middle of casting another spell (with your Action) without interrupting your initial casting. Since Playtest 7 Counterspell is no longer in the hands of the caster, the time is ripe for removing said interaction. Instead, you are able to buff your own Constitution save against it (I hope the War Caster feat will help with that too).
Counterspell a counterspell while casting a counterspell? Welcome to magic the gathering.
I don't think Warcaster needs buffs, and adding an interaction with Counterspell doesn't fit with the thematics.
I much prefer to keep the old bonus action casting rule, but also add a rule that helps bring reaction spells into the reach of balancing efforts.
For instance, it would be awesome if we had a rule that said something like, "from the beginning of your turn until the beginning of your next turn, the total sum of the level of spells that you cast cannot exceed the level of the highest level spell that you can cast. In other words, if the highest level spell available for you to cast is a level 5 spell, then the spells that cast in a round cannot add up to a level over 5."
The reason I like this, is because then you can create a wide variety of semi-niche reaction spells that help your wizard duels seem more strategic and interesting. You have to think about balancing defense against offense. "If I cast my highest level spell, then I'm open to counters and can't react to any of them." This would make cantrips (zero level spells) really useful in high level play, because you could cast a bonus action spell, fire off a cantrip, and still have juice for a reaction spell.
And once we're done fixing reaction features for casters, let's boost all martials with reaction features that give them something to do outside of their turn. In fact, more reaction abilities would make combat more dynamic and keep players focused outside of their turns. You could even throw in features that grant additional reactions, now that reaction spells are balance-able.
Do you not realize that this almost completely cripples spellcaster's reaction spells, not just Counterspell? A full caster will more than likely use leveled spells on the vast majority of their turns. Before, only few of these were bonus actions. With your proposed rule change, that means no more Absorb Elements, no more Shield, no more Feather Fall, no more Counterspell (for other purposes than just Counterspelling another Counterspell). Your problem with Counterspell is something that should be changed in the spell itself, not in the spell restriction rules.
I like the scaling of shillelagh. I assume its there because it makes it more favourable when compared to magic weapons. I was hoping they scale magic stone too.
Maybe have at 5th level that magic stone scales such that you can throw a stone as on the same bonus action you used to cast the spell. Maybe allow a bonus action to throw the stone at 11th level. And 17th level, you can get up to 6 stones per cast?
I think scaling the duration wouldn't provide much benefit, either. It's a cantrip bonus action, you can regularly cast it every thirty seconds outside of combat and ensure that it's active when any fight begins.
You can cast shillelagh on a magic weapon.
@@TreantmonksTempleyes but how many magic weapons are clubs or quarterstaves compared to the number of bladed weapons? I really don't see how allowing a druid to have access to a 1d12 1 handed wisdom based weapon at 11th level is broken.
Currently wildshapes do not give bonus hp like they used to, not that 99% of wildshapes could use weapons anyway, so its not like having the d12 weapon is suddenly going to convince druids to march to the frontlines with their d8 hit dice. And as far ad non druids are concerned for the likes of magic initiate and the such I still believe booming blade and green flame blade are more attractive options for people that want to fight in melee.
@@caosisaac likely more in the 2024 DMG, the spread of magic weapons is something they can and should address.
Chill Touch probably should have been called "Touch of the Grave" or something of that sort from the beginning (or maybe 'Deathly Touch' in order not to break the traditional awkward naming scheme for spells, though it just leads to more awkwardness of another sort).
Old Chill Touch should be Death's hand and new Chill touch should be Cold damage or Fire damage and be called "Freeze or Burn"
How about "Inappropriate Touch"? 😁
Chill Touch used to deal negative energy damage, which was cold, life draining, and death related thematically. It also slightly disrupted the undead's connection to the negative energy plane, scaring/disorientating them a bit, but not hurting them.
I don't understand why they didn't make true strike a 1d4 reaction similar to guidance or resistance. That seems so obvious to me.
Or a Bonus Action because Gish builds want to keep their Reaction for Opportunity Attacks. But then again there's also Great Weapon Master to conflict there.
@@fortunatus1 that's a choice you have to make as a player though, and making players make choices is what makes the game interesting.
Because it would primarily benefit martials at they want arcane casters to be even more self-sufficient.
Because it would trigger all the freaking time bogging down play and being a bit too good.
I think they just favored having something like booming blade/green flame blade in the base game for gish-style characters. Which is fair I think
For Friends, you wouldn't be able to detect shapeshiftes (This was something that came up recently in one of my games). This is from XGtE:
"If you cast a spell on someone or something that can't be affected by the spell, nothing happens to that target, but if you used a spell slot to cast the spell, the slot is still expended. If the spell normally has no effect on a target that succeeds on a saving throw, the invalid target appears to have succeeded on its saving throw, even though it didn't attempt one (giving no hint that the creature is in fact an invalid target). Otherwise, you perceive that the spell did nothing to the target."
So, all the DM has to say is that they succeeded on the saving throw.
I don't know about Chill Touch. I'm one of the apparently very few people who milked the original dry. Just... Rename it Lich Slap and let's go. As a ranged Chill Touch fancier, I'm not happy about it being melee, or about the undead portion being gone. I always remembered it and you better be sure I tossed it left and right whenever undead were around. Also it made me stand out among all the Fire Bolt tossers. I'm just sad about it. I generally agree that spells should do what their name says. But muh toy! 😢
Other than that, yeah, great vid! Reached similar conclusions upon reading the doc. VERY happy about Produce Flame and Shillelagh as well. Though, Shillelagh has potential for abuse now.
In Baldur's Gate 3, it's been renamed "Bone Chill". I'd kinda hoped that this was done at WotC's urging, as with the Wildheart Barbarian.
@@elementzero3379 Or that, yes!
@@elementzero3379 Nice! They won't rename spells due to backwards compatibility though.
@@SortKaffe They renamed the Totem Warrior to Wild Heart, so I don't think updated content has to be locked into old nomenclature.
A spell rename would work, though they've said they aren't changing any spell names or levels
Great content, lots of insights I'm not seeing elsewhere.
The new Produce Flame works while you are Wildshaped if you cast it before transforming! Well, it depends on how binding the "hand" part of the flavor text is, but that's pretty cool, even if circumstantial.
Yeah, had this discussion a few days ago. Discovered after going down the rabbit hole that there is no set definition for what qualifies as a "hand"
@@TreantmonksTemple Did you get flashbacks to the Great Grapple Debate?
But would the flame in the "hand" affect or add damage to an unarmed strike or wildshaped claw attack? It doesn't specifically say anything about that, so I'd guess that it doesn't. But, should it?
@@TreantmonksTemple "is no set definition for what qualifies as a "hand"" in science or in D&D? Because in science there sure is, a hand can grasp things (amongst other details), whereas a paw cannot. So monkeys have hands, not paws despite "monkey paw" being a thing in superstition.
As a DM, if someone wanted to Wild Shape into a primate and they already had Produce Flamee cast, I'd let them contiue use it, but if the turned into a bear, cat or canine, I'd have it dispel.
The idea that you have to use your spellcasting ability for true strike is actually really interesting, since it makes it harder for classes that are foxused on str or dex to make use of them. I like this for true strike.
One more major limitation to Blade Ward you didn't cover is that you need to cast it BEFORE the attack roll is made, which makes it significantly worse.
An important change to acid splash is that a 5-foot radius means that two target 10 feet apart can be hit if you hurt the acid right between them.
I'm not sure the damage scaling on Shillelagh is powerful enough to worry about. It's scaling from 4.5 + mod average damage per attack to 7 + mod at level 17. But I'd love to see you try and break it.
It'd be interesting on a Wisdom/Dexterity "vow of poverty" Fighter, using a staff and getting 4 2d6 attacks... But that's just a greatsword.
@@jocelyngray6306And that's kind of the kicker and why I don't understand Chris's issues with it - even with the scaling, it's super niche. His main argument is that it shouldn't scale because he was under the impression that it's old design scaled around Extra Attack...as a Druid-exclusive spell, a class where not even any of its subclasses gain the EA feature. And *even then* it just turns a quarterstaff or club into at best greatsword damage at level 17...granted it is one-handed but again, and I can't stress this enough, level 17. Especially when a cantrip like Primal Savagery already exists and has actual scaling and a better damage die *at level 1* .
Plus it's a bonus action to cast and isn't being used on a standard heavy weapon (if you are using it one-handed) so feats to boost melees that Chris uses constantly in his optimized builds for DPR calcs are off the table, *and* the spell is limited to just clubs and staves - not exactly common in the ways of big boy magic weapons, if the argument is then switched to casting Shillelagh on a magic weapon as if it's as egregious as what Blade Pact Warlocks can do.
The only real issue that needs clarifying are what version of Magic Initiate is active in the playtest - Playtest 1 or PHB 2014? Because playtest MI is the reworked design for the new system but uses the now-removed shared spell lists and, as a result, let's you choose your casting ability score. If MI has reverted back to the PHB version (which I imagine it at least locks back strictly to the Druid spell list now again), the question is whether the ability to choose the ability score still sticks - if it's been reverted fully and you're stuck to the class ability score (so Wisdom), Shillelagh is still super niche, only really a thing if you go out of your way to spec for it. And even then, it's just a fun little build and nothing "gamebreaking."
ya this one hundred percent. Chris is awesome (thanks for the vids chris}and I love his content . I was just surprised on this take unless he is seeing something that I cannot . I don't get it either@@Mrryn
Chill Touch WAS cold damage in 3rd edition. We also didn't really have Necrotic damage back then either. (Negative Energy was a thing, but it was almost exclusively for monsters.)
It's morning, i just sat down with my coffee to watch this video... and i can confirm that morning coffee, revised cantrips, and a Teantmonk sub is the best way to start a day.
I really appreciate how much your subscriber and patreon plug game has evolved. I think your the only channel that I enjoy listening to them.
I can't wait to see how they reverse all of these changes in a future version
If they make the light 30/30, this would overshadow the Light cantrip (no pun intended). I think a cantrip who's sole purpose is to make light shouldn't produce less light than a little fireball in your hand. I think the 10/10 light was actually okay, IMO they should've made a different change - to be able to place the light somewhere instead of only carrying it with you. Or doing something like - when you attack a creature, after you hit or miss it, the little fireball remains on the spot/creature, shedding 10/10 light for 1 minute/until the end of your next turn/however long.
The range buff was definitely needed.
Not so. The light cantrip has a lot of utility because it is cast on an object instead of "self" like produce flame. Increasing produce flames light to match it's attack range seems like common sense.
@@blshouse You already can attack with it. Light cantrip is dead, unless they overhaul all light producing spells.
@@RedrumZombiesYou can use the Light cantrip to create an impromptu torch that can be used to help companions without Darksight or illuminate distant objects (up to 600 ft away if you cast it on an arrow). Produce Flame doesn't have that capability.
The light cantrip is still really useful to attach to a piece of ammunition and light up an area far away, or drop down a hole to see how deep it is.
I was hoping True Strike would fall in line with the new variants of Guidance and Resistance. A cantrip that is cast on reaction using the D20 Test as the design shell based on a d4 bonus.
Guidance = Skill
Resistance = Save
True Strike = Attack
This new version of True Strike is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I like the new True Strike, but as a new spell called Shinning Blade.
My thoughts exactly. You can do this, and repurpose this design for a new cantrip
Also, I like the Blade Ward suggestion, it falls in line exactly where I think the power of a cantrip should be
@@marcos2492 I do not think that adding a d4 as a reaction on a failed attack is broken. I've been play testing that along with Guidance and Resistance. So far it only turns a miss into a hit about 50% of the time.
It really feels like they didn't do it because it would have benefited martials instead of making arcane casters more independent. Adding a d4 to an attack roll is generally far less dramatic than adding it to a save, too. Even Blade Ward becoming a reaction and keeping its range of "Self" instead of something you can cast on others (whether as an action or a reaction) feels like it follows that logic of arcane caster self-sufficiency.
@@tibot4228 Most martials do not have access to cantrips, and often have better uses for reactions.
i disagree with you on shilelagh. It's a druid cantrip. Druids don't get extra attacks. Most casters don't. The only ones who do are martials. And martials have weapons with these damage types already. It's just a small buff for druids using weapon attacks at high levels.
At level 1 every character can take Magic Initiate: Druid (former Primal), pick Shillelagh and choose between WIS, INT and CHA as the spellcasting ability.
So every Martial character can take Shillelagh. Especially Paladins. In wich the spell is probably too powerfull as it is.
Eldritch Knights with Shillelagh (INT) and True Strike seem also too good...
I love Shillelagh! But yea theese changes seem problematic.
My suggestion would be: give the caster an extra attack with the weapon at level 11, wich doesn't scale with any other extra attacks.
multiclassing, magic initiate (druid), ranger with druidic warrior fighting style, etc.
@@DieinnereStimme a martial can already use a d12 or 2d6 weapon from level one. Shilelagh doesn't add anything to a martial. Meanwhile on a caster it's 1 attack per round for 2 extra damage. Casters gonna cast over shillelagh. Not a problem
even if we grant it ups a martial from 1d8 to 2d6... that's 3 points of damage at level 17 at the opportunity cost of a whole feat. Not a game changer.
@@kennyostrom3098 Yeah i never said it was hard to get on a martial. I said it doesn't matter on a martial. Martials have weapons from level 1 that can do 1d12 or 2d6 damage. 17 levels of investment, and a feat, to change a d8 weapon die to a 2d6 weapon die is, on average, 3 points of damage. Not a game balance concern.
Personally I think Spare the Dying should scale 30,60,90,120 so the range earlier larger than that of healing spells, and True strike should only replace the attack roll and scale by giving a +1/+2/+3 to that attack (doesnt stack with a bonus from a magic weapon)
Love how you got that dig in on find traps! You’re absolutely right.
Shillelagh could be a weapon attack cantrip like GFB, BB and True Strike
It’s unique thing could be that it grants an additional attack with the same action at level 5, bonus damage at 11, and bonus range at 17
I laughed really hard at the Shocking Grasp part.
It was a "son of a b...!" moment
Acid Splash- in a 10ft wide hallway, if your front liners can jam them up (halt their advance with sentinel, just blocking the hallway, or some other means) you can get at least 1 four target acid spray off.
Fixes for UA 8 Cantrips:
Acid Splash: Add to Artificer, Druid, Ranger, and Warlock Spell Lists
Blade Ward: Reaction is great, put back to Resistance to All Piercing/Slashing/Bludgeoning Weapon Damage... the Spell is called Blade Ward, not Melee Crippling, it should be warding off some of the damage, not cancelling Sneak Attack, not impeding Inflict Wounds and Booming Blade, not being useless against thrown daggers and hurled axes.
Chill Touch: Should be splint into two spells; actual Chill Touch, is a Touch Attack (which Blade Ward should not give Disadvantage), causes 1d10 COLD Damage, slows the target by 10x half the damage dealt; Ghostly Grasp, is a 120 ft ranged spell attack, deals 1d8 Necrotic damage, target can't regain HP until the start of your next turn, if it hits Undead they have disadvantage on all attack rolls and saves until the end of your next turn.
Friends: New version is okay, but it shouldn't auto succeed for any of those reasons. Humanoid (so Fey, like Goblins, Centaurs, and Changelings; Monstrosities, like Thri-Kreen and Minotaurs; Oozes like Plasmoids; Constructs like Autognomes; all immune) is silly... races resistant to Charm like Elves and Most Fey will get the Advantage; being able to turn a foe to a Friend is the whole point of the spell, so while it makes sense for someone to have advantage on the save, immunity doesn't make sense; having used the spell successfully should not make someone immune to the spell, having used the spell and failed should, so while someone who has been affected should maybe have advantage, they shouldn't be immune unless they have succeeded on the save in the past 24 hours... so, fix, replace Automatically Save with Advantage, add Immune for 24 Hours after successfully succeeding.
Poison Spray: Okay... buff for Yuan-Ti, but sure... seems fine.
Produce Flames: Looks great... btw, the reason to not make it have 30ft/30ft range is because it is an alternate spell option to Light for certain backgrounds, so for Light to have greater value, it needs to not surpass the range cast by light, and since cantrips can be cast at will outside of combat, 10 minutes and 1 hour hold little difference except Light can be cast on random objects (like a brick in the wall, an empty sconce, or a statue's sword, while produce flame can only help light torches or has to be held by the caster, the added combat benefit of Produce Flame already makes it generally a better choice than Light and now with equal light range it makes Produce Flame even more tempting if you have to choose)
Shillelagh: IT NEEDED THE DAMAGE PROGRESSION, actually, still needs an adjustment, should be 1d8, 1d10 (5th), 2d6 (11th), 2d8 (17th). Yes, it can be stacked, so can a Paladin with a Smite and a Smite Spell and Booming Blade Cantrip... stacking is supposed to happen, Shillelagh is meant to be a Druid or Ranger's Melee Combat Option, and should scale... we should be elevating all classes, not nerfing a bunch to make them all as shitty as Rangers and Champion Fighters...
Shocking Grasp: No, F, put back the metal advantage (actually, correct it so it says if they have armor made of metal or are made of metal themselves) and all reactions... So what if it makes the Boss Monster not able to take a ton of TPK abilities... the DM can do whatever they want... it is to the START of the creature's next turn, not the END of yours... so if you go right before the creature, the only thing it does is prevents reactions on your turn anyway, it just paints a bigger target on your back that it needs to remove you from the fight to shutdown that issue... Warlocks, Feat granted Spellcasting, even Wizards, Sorcerers, Druids, and Clerics after a few encounters depend on Cantrips, they are supposed to be desirable to use them... if you remove the spell slot limitations, and simply say Wizards are limited to the options in their spellbooks, Clerics and Druids are limited to the ones they prepared, and Sorcerers and Warlocks are limited to the spells they know, and the can cast them as much as they like, then, sure, nerf cantrips, but otherwise, keep Cantrips viable (especially late game).
Spare the Dying: The new version is great, except it completely eliminates the Grave Cleric's real benefit. The solution is no to undo this change to the Cantrip, it is better this way... the solution is replace the Grave Cleric feature with one that still grants them Spare the Dying as a Bonus Cantrip, still lets them cast it as a bonus action (plus add, or as an Action or Reaction), but additionally multiplies the range of all healing spells including Spare the Dying by their Proficiency Modifier, making them masters of healing at range.
True Strike: The new version is great, except it needs to be on the Druid Spell List, and granted to Rangers when they reach level 2 (yeah, this should be an option for Rangers... you know, the guys who should have AIM, but instead Rogues got it... this would allow Rangers to Hunter's Mark, True Strike, Shoot, trading extra attack after level 5 for more focused damage, and doing magical damage earlier than most Martials can, to compensate for even with this, still being the shittiest base class).
I really like that True Strike works with ranged attacks, that's a great niche for a weapon cantrip. Maybe if you didn't add your Spellcasting Modifier to the damage it would be balanced? Though maybe that's just firebolt with extra steps again...
I don’t like friends using the charmed condition because that feels like a thing that would actually piss people off once they realize they were charmed.
It should reference the social rules of friendly/indifferent/hostile since they will be printed in the PHB, and say: You magically emanate a sense of friendship toward one visible creature within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or there attitude shifts by one towards friendly for the duration of the spell. If the target is hostile it gets advantage on the save and if it isn’t a humanoid, is in combat against you, or you’ve already cast this spell on it in the past 24 hours it automatically succeeds. If the target fails and was already friendly you gain advantage on deception, intimidation, and persuasion checks.
I think this is as clean design wise it can be as a social cantrip. There’s nothing that in role play would justify the target getting upset while actively making targets more friendly or suggestionable. It would just be chocked up to the caster being charismatic and convincing, and I’m sure we’ve all experienced or seen something like this happen before irl. Plus it really might help newer tables to navigate social encounters by having a mechanical spell actually reference the printed social encounter rules
Agree 100%
Not sure that shillelagh damage scaling is an issue of being too strong... A druid picking up enough levels in another class to get to Extra Attack, or a martial class picking up a druid cantrip (and having enough in a spellcasting stat to make it worthwhile) seem like edge cases. Increased duration is blah. Saves the first bonus action in combat maybe every few encounters unless your casting it out of combat regularly, in which case you could (very annoyingly) to that already with the 1 min duration.
I’ll miss the old blade ward. Call me crazy, I mean the new version is better, but I liked making a blade singer that could effectively rage. I was excited to try it with the new eldritch knight, giving up an attack for resistance for a round was awesome. And better since they are backing off of “magical” damage. Even with a wizard, if I’m doing good damage already with Animated Objects or a summon, I liked staying back and casting blade ward for a little extra protection. I agree the new version is just disadvantage on one attack, it’s not broken. But it will be a must have cantrip, especially if Magic initiate is a 1st level feat. And with the way they are throwing around advantage, will cancelling it with disadvantage from blade ward really be worth a reaction? Just some thoughts, I’ll miss the quasi rage that was the old blade ward. Sorry Earth Genasi
Hopefully they're eventually going to fix the wording of Create Bonfire so we know how much light it's supposed to be producing.
For pre-update Chill Touch, I feel like maybe they were trying to be flowery and poetic with the name, like "the target is touched by the chill of the grave," or something.
The average damage for a d10, d12, and 2d6 is 5.5, 6.5, and 7 respectively. So it may seem a bit weird, but we should keep in mind that 2d6 has a much lower variance around its average than a d12.
I remember this clearly from Earthdawn Steps, and their meaning. :)
I get the sense that the designers are thinking in terms of context-free cantrip balance here rather than "How good is this as a Druid cantrip (or any other class cantrip that gets it)?" That's less of an issue with the arcane casters, but specifically looking at the Druid, there's always been something of an issue in my mind that there's no basic 'go-to' cantrip for most situations that isn't terrible or overly situational. These changes don't seem to fix that.
Produce flame is now more flexible out of combat but would require me to use both my Bonus Action and my Action every turn I want to use it as a normal damage cantrip. For a Druid, who often has continuous action or bonus action spells from concentration going, that's not something I want to worry about.
Poison spray I would argue doesn't make much sense either thematically or mechanically as the druid's go-to; most druids are sworn to fight undead after all, and poison isn't doing anything against them. (I would argue that the necromancy school switch doesn't make sense thematically either, especially for a Druid, but I'll leave it at that.) And of course there is the range issue - I don't know why the designers seem to want druids to get up closer to enemies than other casters when the playtests have been removing defenses (armor proficiency) from them.
Speaking of getting up close, this Shillelagh change seems designed to benefit non-druid builds who might use it (i.e., classes who get extra attack, like monk or ranger) moreso than it benefits Druids themselves, which it is supposed to be an iconically Druid cantrip. And it still isn't a great cantrip choice beyond low levels for Druids.
This almost makes me wish that they would return to the idea of making certain cantrips class features. If Produce Flame and Shillelagh are intended to primarily be used by the Druid and to be iconic for them, make them class features and then make them actually reliably bread-and-butter *for Druids*.
I dislike the idea of locking cantrips entirely behind taking a level in the class. Iconic ones for a class should be better on them, but they should still be accessible with a feat, race or a subclass for just about anyone. Produce flame might have some interactions with wild shape (aka can still be used while doing so) already, which already makes it more useful for druids than other options. Perhaps with some adjustments shillelagh might still be good for non-druids, but allows druids to get more out of it. I'm not sure quite was this change would be, without directly saying "bonus if a druid uses this" or making a "druid-only feat/class feature" that buffs it. Although either of those wouldn't be unwelcome.
@@TerminalDevastation Yes, I suppose I'd be fine with additional features that added bonuses for Druids using their iconic cantrips, so long as those features aren't counted against the feature budget of the class as a whole (though I have a feeling that they would be).
But then again, if they were intended to be the go-to cantrips for Druid from the beginning, it would be more elegant if their base design made them especially well-suited to the Druid class mechanically compared with others.
Produce Flame lasts for 10 minutes, so it only costs a bonus action once, since the spell never ends. If you're in the dark, you probably already had it active anyway.
Chill Touch becoming a touch spell actually makes the disadvantage on attack rolls matter A LOT more. In 5e, an undead only had disadvantage on its attacks against you, but since Chill Touch was a ranged cantrip, that rarely came into play; but now that it's a melee cantrip, it could become a fantastic panic button for a very narrow case, basically a more circumstantial Shocking Grasp.
As for Shocking Grasp, rather than an extra average point of damage, I would indeed prefer the advantage on enemies wearing metal armor being reintroduced, only now it also applies to enemies that are made of metal. It's circumstantial but unique, and it does make the cantrip more reliable in a few cases.
The thing with these two spells is that you probably aren't going to wade into melee to cast them, and blade cantrips are infinitely better if you want melee damage options, so imo their being counteroffensive panic buttons should be encouraged.
Me literally taking my first sip of coffee in the morning hearing Chris describe my addictions a bit too precisely. 🤔
Speaking of spells that do what the name suggest, I'm of the opinion that Poison Spray should be a 15' cone Dex save.
The coffee analogy is pretty great. I have been sick and waking up was pretty hard this morning but I was able to do it when I saw a new Treantmonk video. Thanks for posting so early in the morning!
I'm personally fine with the damage of Shillelagh scaling, since it is very restrictive with regards to what weapon you can use. If Shillelagh could work on any weapon like the Bladelock's Pact weapon, sure, damage scaling the weapon could become a problem, but it's club and quarterstaff only. There are some shenanigans someone could get up to with a Wisdom-focused melee Ranger in a Curse of Strahd campaign getting the cantrip through a variety of means and grabbing the Gulthias Staff, but unless the DM is handing out really powerful magic clubs and quarterstaves I don't think it's really that big of a deal.
Ya people need to explain why it’s too much imo I don’t see it .
@@Staff7I genuinely think Chris has an issue with gish builds tbh. I stand by that even the Bladelock stuff in the playtest isn't even that bad, even the 3rd Extra Attack from Thirsting Blade - the issue is Lifedrinker using dice and Eldritch Smite, which leads to these dumb old Paladin "burn everything on a crit" builds which was why the playtest Paladin Smite was reworked so much.
I genuinely believe that if Eldritch Smite wasn't an invocation option, or if it followed the reworked Paladin Smite rules and took a bonus action, it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar. Even in the playtest game he was in, the Bladelock was outdamaged by the Swashbuckler in the first combat and only put up crazy DPR numbers because he dropped a crit bomb in the second fight, but Chris tried to present the 1st combat as some surprising anomaly and the 2nd combat like "ah see, look at the problem child, just like I said." It wouldn't surprise me if Chris just saw this redesign for Shillelagh and immediately connected it to the changes to the Blade Pact invocations and got hit with PTSD in his response without actually giving deeper thought into the spell and how restrictive it is, both in its language/limitations and in how limited access it is as well.
The only ones you can maybe see are builds like the Eldritch Knight who want a lightsaber or Tomelocks/Clerics who want a melee option, but the latter don't have Extra Attack they can utilize (as Chris called it) the "original scaling of the cantrip" and the former can just utilize Shadow Blade and/or ranged weapons with True Strike just as well if not better and without having to use a feat.
Acid Splash: It's a buff for Evokers... it makes the now low-level ability to still do damage on a failed save apply to a decent ranged spell.
I would say I am actually extremely surprised that shocking grasp lost all reactions and chill touch didn’t receive any reduction on the removal of hit point regeneration. I think I would’ve liked to see chill touch reduce half the healing and open up space for more regeneration properties within monsters and perhaps other necromancy leveled spells remove healing fully. While I know this would be an objective nerf, I think it would open up a lot for monster/encounter designs.
I would’ve loved if true strike worked like another blade cantrip and then worked like a lesser version of guiding bolt. Perhaps when you hit the enemy, the next attack gained a 1d4 to their attack roll.
I’d like to see the sword cantrips get reprinted and would love to see primal savagery get something to compete against chill touch.
Good point that Primal Savagery also needs a rider to do something else besides damage. Chill Touch would make a lot of sense on the Druid and Cleric spell lists though, and they would be more likely to use it than most Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards.
Primal Savagery isn't in the Players Handbook. It might get its redesign in a future book.
@@DieinnereStimme oh I am aware for sure, I just think in terms of modern design it doesn’t have a rider for its damage and it’s only current advantage is acid damage and being on a Druid list. I think it needs a little more especially if they don’t have plans to reduce the power of chill touch’s negation of health regeneration
Shillelaghs scaleing is just upgrading the damage dice of the weapon so a 1d6 one handed quarterstaff
goes to a 1d8 like Morningstar or rapier
then it goes to a 1d10 like a Glaive or a Halberd
then it goes to a 1d12 like a Greataxe or a lance
then it goes to 2d6 like a Greatsword or a Maul
if you have a problem with it getting pared with extra attack you have a problem with Greatswords at lv5 much less lv17
Except, you can use a shield as well.
Thanks Treantmonk! It would be harder to get through the drudgery of life without your insight! ❤
After i subscribed to this channel, my life has been like an eternal morning coffee euphoria
I think it's interesting that there are 2 schools of thought on Shillelagh. 1 is that it's a really good cantrip, period. It doesn't need cantrip scaling. The other is that it's good at low levels because it can hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons, and this provides that, and uses your spellcasting modifier, which can be better if you're a spellcaster, but you should swap it out in the 2nd Tier of play for something that scales. Outside of tier 1 it's just not very good, and I can't figure out the arguments saying it is. I mean... maybe some combination of PAM Bugbear Gloomstalker Ranger with a high wisdom using Hunter's Mark and Booming Blade and a couple levels of Fighter for Action Surge, but I'd argue Shillelagh is the smallest buff in there. I just don't see it. We have a homebrew version of Shillelagh that makes it a +1 weapon at 5th, +2 at 11th, and +3 at 17th, and that barely makes it worth keeping at higher levels. The d10, d12, 2d6 still isn't worth keeping it rather than swapping it out for pretty much anything else unless you go for a VERY specialized build.
On Acid Splash, since it's an area, you can now hit invisible creatures that you know (or guess) are there, and before you could not right?
Produce flame is effectively a spell like torch now, since the torch as an adventuring tool is 20 foot bright and 20 foot dim light. For Shillelagh I like the damage scale, for making casters more inline with fighter types, giving a more none spell cast attack type. I love how they updated True Strike, expesally since it doesn't say it has to be a melee weapon, it can be any weapon if your proficient. A good build using shillelagh and produce flame would be a green mermaid, who gets a druid cantrip, with a nature domain cleric, granting a second druid cantrip, now you get both to use. Not a super powerful build, but it gives the idea of a druidic cleric.
Worth noting on Acid Splash, making it Evocation allows Evocation Wizards to prevent damage against allies who may happen to be in the AoE. This goes hand in hand with the change in the wording to be a 5ft sphere being to shoot it into melee. We can now have an Evocation wizard cast this into an area of melee combat without hurting the fighter. Niche interaction, but those are half the fun of D&D, imo.
I think the reason for the school changes is also for wizard subclasses, evoker benefits from evoker spells and necromancy would want a ranged necromancy cantrip, there's some implication that cloudkill will be necromancy to get all the poisons into necro.
They lack imagination.
True strike (bonus action): You choose a target that have to make a CHA save with Advantage, if they fail you gain advantage for your next attack.
"Using a necrotic spell against undead often means it's immune to the damage"... usually only if it's incorporeal. The vast majority of undead creatures are not incorporeal and not immune. There are some more powerful undead that are resistant, but not immune.
Yeah, it's genuinely weird how many are just as weak to necrotic as anything else. At least the standout generic ones like Skeletons and Zombies are.
@@dreamwanderer5791 Bones do decay, Zombies are literally rotting flesh, it actually makes less sense for them to be resistant or immune to Necrotic.
@@TxSonofLiberty It's because necrotic damage is negative energy, and their body is animated with negative energy. It's like trying to wilt a wilted plant.
Shocking Grasp is my go-to cantrip...I feel attacked
Sounds like you're shocked by the changes
@TreantmonksTemple oh yes...absolutely. I hope the "reaction" nerf is just play test.
Your ads are my absolute favorite 😍
Just some ideas;
True Strike: take away damage scaling and add: "If the attack would normally be made with disadvantage it is not."
Alternately, reduce tye scaling to 1d4.
I think the d4 damage scaling is a good idea. I don’t think the low-level version is as good as people think. If you are a member of a class that can get this cantrip and you didn’t take the Lightly Armored feat (which I think is bad for the game, but that’s neither here nor there) your Dex is likely 16, and I haven’t seen any objections to my Level 1 wizard shooting stuff with a crossbow. In fact, I think far too often a tier 1 caster is firing off cantrips when they should take a look at their weapon proficiencies.
Woot new Produce Flame with a dragon born druid. Cast produce flame, "hold it in your mouth", shapeshift ( Lizard ). Behold I am Tad Cooper, son of Trogdor, he who breaths flaming death and frightens small farm animals!
I would have loved for Spare the Dying to shorten the time it takes an unconscious character to wake up with 1 hit point. It may not happen often at higher levels, but it does feel a bit bad that a player may have to sit out the game for 1d4 hours in-game.
The coffee analogy sold me.
Chill touch had the healing prevention rider already, so to me cutting the range so drastically seems like a pretty big nerf, which isn’t offset but changing to a d10 damage die. I agree the name is misleading, but I think they could have just changed the name to be clearer. “Call of the grave”, “Soul drain” come to mind as options.
They've already committed to not changing the names of any spells though.
At my table Blade Ward provides resistance to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage from an attack as a reaction. I like it better than a disadvantage, which can entirely negate damage. for rogues it also counters their sneak attack, which they won’t get even if they hit, madly reducing their damage. A tiny bit too powerful. We’ll keep the resistance.
The effect of our version also cannot apply on critical hits, too powerful for a cantrip to deny a crit.
I think that Shillelagh and other class exclusive cantrips should scale with class level
PRODUCE FLAME: Cannot be used to light a pipe or a campfire or anything as part of the bonus action. It does not say that it lights target on fire. (Same as original) Can hold flame in hand for 10 minutes with no concentration and make an attack each turn (Making an attack does not end the spell duration) Was this intended. Also, creates a bit of a larger area of light.
Treantmonk should be offered an all expense paid trip somewhere as compensation for all the OneD&D design work he's put in.
Uh-oh. I feel a Monk/Druid Shillelagh build coming in my near future. Maybe. I will have to ponder it over my morning coffee.
Chris, I love your sense of humor. Lol
It’s funny, a while back you did a tier of cantrips, and I remember saying why I think you underrated it
Haha the coffee pitch had me giggling in my morning coffee haha. Good work as always Chris.
If you increase the range on the Produce Flame, not only do you make it no longer the same as a torch, you also make it equivalent in illumination to a Light cantrip, plus it does fire damage.
Love the Acid Splash changes, Blade Ward should scale with attack amounts in my opinion (2 Attacks at Level 5, 3 at 11, etc.). Friends is one that I have a hard time wrapping my head around but maybe it could just be more similar to calm emotions where it might prevent a creature from joining the combat. True Strike should only do your spellcasting modifier in damage because it feels like it is better than martials' attacks at early levels. I think defensive scaling and utility scaling on cantrips make them much more valuable for half-casters like Rangers or Arcane tricksters and I think that would let them feel much better in the game. I also think that there should be cantrips for every shape that spells are cast within the game. AOE spell shapes are better to get used to playing around at the very start of the game for new players. Still need to buff martials and monks though, especially with most of these spell upgrades.
make shocking graps take away a number of reactions equal half your casting ability modifier, rounded down.
It scales passively, and its easy to be at a point when an enemy is not invalidated.
honestly I would go with "non-magical weapons gain a +1 to attack and damage rolls at 5th level (increasing to+2 at 11th level, and +3 at 17th)" with Shillelagh's scaling myself, but yeah agree with you on pretty much everything here.
Who doesn't want a d12 one-handed weapon?
At level 11? I still don’t see why ya tripping and remember cantrip only scale with the class level of those who get it
@@Staff7 I don't think that's the case, where have you seen it?
@Staff7 Character level you mean? A fighter could get the cantrip through a feat or multiclass and have a d12 damage die on one handed weapon by level 11. That's strong.
@@neilm838not really, if a fighter is sacrificing a feat/ability score at level 12 to multi-class to get a cantrip to get a d12 weapon attack it'll be barely noticeable.
@andrewshandle fair enough. To me it makes 2-handed weapons less enticing but then again that could be a good thing.
Neither chilly or touchy. That's optimal scientific language right there.
I know “spell names and levels will be the same as before” but chill touch should be called touch of the grave now. If its not going to be touch then idk. The new spell is powered appropriately just the name still isn’t.
Yes. I wish WotC would have renamed Chill Touch to something like Bigby's Hand of Corruption or some such and then designed a new cold damage touch spell and called it Chill Touch instead.
I wish Blade Ward was a Cleric/Druid spell instead. I feel like the current version of it is much more at home with that kind of protective class than a Wizard.
Thanks for the vid. I modded in a different version of true strike for bg3. For wpn attacks use a reaction to add prof bonus to attack roll. Been good with my playthrough. I might add in the new blade ward for my next playthrough
I think shocking grasp should mantain the same as before, but the reaction loss should be a saving throw, maybe constitution, and the effect can't be suffered in 2 consecutive rounds. That should do it.
Given that a spell like Zone of Truth specifically tells you that you know if they saved or not (and not as reminder text), I assumed the the default is that players don't know if their target succeeds. Sometimes, however, it's obvious or is obvious enough that it makes sense to describe it in a way that tells them they succeeded the save (like someone saving against Hold Person not being paralyzed or someone saving against a Fireball throwing up a cloak at the last moment to protect themselves).
Looking forward to Playest 13 when they'll release the redesigned _Enemies_ cantrip ftw.
I need more of treantmonk talking about that good good bean juice
I think Acid Splash was changed to Evocation so it can benefit from Sculpt Spells.
Maybe, now that there is actually the possibility of friendly fire
@@TreantmonksTemple The biggest issue is Sculpt Spells is now level 6, and not 2, as it was swapped with Potent Cantrip (which was also nicely buffed to include attack roll spells not just saving throw spells).
I can say that I wish I had SS at level 2 on my playtest wizard, I ended up Acid Splashing my barbarian party mate at the same time as 3 bandits who were surrounding him.
Looking forward to your playtest 7 wizard video whenever you get around to it!
The Grave Domain buff to Spare the Dying also needs to be changed if this version goes through.
This came to my mind immediately when I read it, same as Blade Ward for the Earth Genasi
Chill touch interacting with undead is making up for undead being resilient against necrotic. Just because a new player overlooks that, that does not mean it is bad.
I think that True Strike working with ranged weapons is fine. Yes, it does end up being slightly better than the alternatives, but not by that much, you wouldn't really feel bad if you pick normal cantrips for a more roleplay purpose. Plus it comes with an issue of weapon juggling, depending on what other stuff you have, it can get pretty annoying. Most notably, you can't use a shield together with a ranged weapon, unlike with a normal cantrip. As for magical weapons - yes, you can find some, but you can also find items that boost your spell attacks and DC, so it's a wash.
The ability to use a shield isn't something I considered, that's a good point
Damage scaling for shillelagh matters less if you make the same change wotc made with true strike. Instead of "you can use your spellcasting ability modifier" switch it to "your attacks use your spell casting ability modifier." This makes most classes that try to use this mad. Even if they don't change the wording the extra average damage of 2.5-7.5 with multiattack at 17th level isn't going to break the game. Most martials are going to have a magic weapon at that point which makes this spell less appealing.
First, chill touch isn't the only necromancy/necrotic damage cantrip, thanks to toll the dead. Second, I love the idea of a warlock taking both pact of the blade and agonizing cantrip for this new version of true strike (I don't think "agonizing blast" is appropriate if it can be used on more than just EB). That way, the pact of the blade can do two-weapon fighting using their charisma. Maybe if celestial patron got true strike for free, alongside light and sacred flame, it might b a little more appealing, and even then, I still think it needs more oomph.
Always excited to get a new video from you. They make my day
Produce Flame would be an interesting cantrip if it created a flaming thrown weapon that used Dexterity for attack rolls and damage rolls. It would give a cantrip that would be great for Arcane Tricksters or Dex based Eldritch Knights.
RAW it says you can use your spell casting modifier, not that you must. Requiring it to use an WIS, CHA, or INT or mandating that it use WIS (since it is a druid exclusive) would make it less enticing to other classes.
@@XanderHarris1023 The description of the cantrip specifies that casting it as a Magic action, which indicates to me that you must use your casting stat. There is no text allowing you to use the flame as a weapon attack as it stands. It also specifies a ranged spell attack. I can't really justify the use of the cantrip to make a thrown weapon attack. Is there some text or rule I am missing here? I am not sure why I would take this as it stands over, say, Fire Bolt, unless I was really trying to squeeze in a magical attack and a light source from a limited cantrip pool.
If it could be used as a weapon attack then it would support hybrids in a way that doesn't currently exist.
@@robciccolini7460 I was talking about Shillelagh. I got confused on what/ who I was replying about/ to.