I rather disagree. I like to use Cineform or ProRes for 4K proxies, as long as they are HD or smaller. I don't mind about the file size as I do about the ease of editing with those files (performance) and I think a lot of editors probably feel this way. I find H.264 files at any size problematic to edit with, even at these small proxy file sizes. Proxies are used to save space, sure, but I think even more important is the file handling, ease of scrubbing, no lagging or hitching in playback, and other performance issues- those things should be considered, as well. For sure, no one should be editing those huge DJI 4K files natively. I agree there.
Just my opinion. People with underpowered systems might have more issues. I'll go back and see if these smaller files might make sense. I've always had better performance with intraframe codecs.
I disagree in almost all you said. I think it depends on what kind of edit, how many tracks, the effects applied, etc. Cineform it's an intermediate codec and it's designed to be easy to edit, H264 it's all about file sizes. Also cineform works great with multiple editing applications, not just premiere. Yes you can do simple edits right out the h264 files, but even reversing an h.264 clip will result in an unusable timeline. The bottom line, i think, it's that if the codec does not fit your workflow it doesn't necessarily make it a useless codec. Nowadays storage is really cheap, so for serious work it shouldn't be an issue.
Just so you know, this tutorial came about from comments sent from a lot of RUclipsrs who were not happy with the large files that Cineform was giving them. I would expect any professionals to already have a solid workflow using their own workflow which may or may not include Cineform.
The whole point of Cineform is proxies. Yes, they're larger, but they have nearly no CPU decode requirements (it beats prores in every aspect: CPU requirements, and image quality at fixed bitrate targets). For people who can't benefit from h.264/h.265 accelerated decoding (like editing 4k60 h.265 on laptops or Ryzen CPUs without quicksync extensions), proxy workflows are essential, and Cineform is probably the best proxy/intermediate codec out there. I'm fairly shocked at your conclusions in the video. (Maybe it's time for an updated video?)
Maybe I should have been clearer, this tutorial was (generally speaking) for RUclipsrs who are not familiar with the storage needs of intermediate files. They were freaking out that their DSLR clips would taking up huge amounts of space after converting them.
@@VideoRevealed If that's the case, I would amend the description, and possibly the title, so that the intention is more clear before watching the video.
Gotta join the disagree crowd here. For more old-school "offline" vs "online" workflows, wanting your proxies to be "smaller" makes some sense, but file size isn't the main contributing factor when it comes to generating proxies while shooting with hard-to-decode formats. The point is to have low decode latency formats and very decode efficient formats - which Cineform is. Bigger file sizes, but MUCH easier to decode, just like DNxHR/ProRes. The i-frame only MPEG or H264 is okay if you NEED small file size proxies, but I really, reeaaallly don't see that as being the point.
100% agree with you. The main reason I created this was for RUclipsrs who were unhappy with Proxies being larger than their media. These are people shooting on a DSLR with H.264 and creating Proxies with Cineform. For them, it makes no sense.
What would be a good intermediate (not sure Im using the right term) codec? By intermediate what I mean when I use this term is something that is easy to edit and mostly something that doesn't significantly degrade if I render it multiple times by moving it through different software. I can accept a bigger size, but I wouldn't want more than 10x in size. Ideally 3 to 5x the size of an x264? I always thought prores is that, but I'm not sure and also there are a bunch of different Prores files. How about Prores 422 LT? I can except a tiny bit of degradation, but not as much as with h264. Another question would be is it ok to convert 8 bit h264 420 into Prores 10 bit 422 LT to use it as an "intermediate codec" as I understand it? Would it hurt the colors in any way? I know that you explained some of that in this video, but I'm a beginner, so I might not have understood everything you said.
Not sure if you've found this out since making this, but just so you know, you don't have to turn off proxies in premiere before exporting. Premiere exports with the original media unless you make that media offline. And if it does export with the proxies, it gives you a warning message before letting you know it can't find the original media.
Thanks so much. I've been thinking about this tutorial and I originally made it when too many RUclipsrs where surprised at how much space QuickTime files take. But since then, Adobe and Apple have worked together to make QuickTime a standard format so I will be doing a new tutorial in the future on how to use all the newest QuickTime formats.
Personally I color correct my DSLR footage in Davinci and render MXF Files then go to editing in Premiere and import them for image and audio editing, then I render a Master in Cineform that will be used for rendering H264 for RUclips, MP4 for telephone, DVD files, Blu-ray files, MPG2 for TV, AND Works great.
Davinci is by far a better color grading software and the file format keeps solid the grading before editing an adding Effects with Premiere, Aftereffects, and working audio with Audition
Cineform is great for that workflow. dudeclaude: If you've never worked with a node based program, get ready for a massive learning curve. DaVinci Resolve is very powerful but you will probably find yourself struggling just to import your footage.
Wait, what? So if I have h.264 footage and I'm going to color grade in Da Vinci I should be rendering a master in Cineform? Or should I just keep it native.. Also I usually edit my footage first and then color grade.. I only shoot 1080p and my system has no issues with playback..
If I shot in h264 and want to export loseless to bring the file in again in premiere. What export settings should I choose not to degrade my footage? Cheers!
Handles are extra media before and after the IN and OUT point. Handles are useful if you want to shift the clip or the IN/OUT points after you've trimmed the media. You don't see the handles, it's just extra frames on each side. If you didn't choose handles, then you'd see the white triangles that indicate the media is at the end. Here's a tutorial on the white triangles: ruclips.net/video/58sU2V5hos4/видео.html
I prefer converting my h.264 video files to cineform as it is intraframe and doesn't have the higher CPU overhead of the interframe h.264 codec. My pc is 7 years old. On newer hardware I agree it might not be worth it.
So, in the case of videos recorded by a GoPro HERO6 in 4K, which are encoded in HEVC, I should make proxies in H264 for working in Adobe Premiere Pro, and then just export in full resolution, right? If I try to edit HEVC footages directly, I miss a lot of frames. I just have one doubt: do you get any audio desync when switching from proxies to your actual video source?
Hiya Colin …was wondering if you have a video that talks about the new versions of codecs for Premiere 2018 CC , I have been using Premiere for editing clip for Stock footage agencies , and my preferred code always was PhotoJPEG for coding videos - much , much better , for colour , than H264 , but also much heavier and bigger file , and was wondering if you have a video talking about the possible substitutes codecs for the new version of premiere, things likethe differences and recommendations for H264 -over - Prores 422 - DNxHR 12bit - DNxHR 8bit - ??? since the new version of premiere no longer supports PhotoJPEG…??? Any alternatives you might recommend ?? Kind regards …and keep up the excellent work /channel..!!
Hey Ray, can you please contact me at the link below? I'd like to continue this conversation in detail via email with you. I'm engaging the Adobe folks on this one. videorevealed.com/contact.html
At the end of my tutorials, I post a like to other tutorials that relate to the content. This one contained the Proxy Tutorial: ruclips.net/video/993mbUa0h-w/видео.html I use VLC simply because it plays almost any format I throw at it. It's an ugly program for sure, but I just care about being able to play anything. Also, I have removed all Apple software from all my systems as Apple is not supporting QuickTime on Windows anymore.
Question please: if I'm shooting on a GoPro Hero 5, using 2.7k linear and want to have the final rendered output from premiere as 1080p, then which proxy codec is best to use and in which size? I'm editing on a slow Mac. I tend to have the sequence set to 1080p and want to reposition and scale the footage up (zoom in) somewhat. Apple pro res in a size larger than 1080p? Thanks
You should create a new Encode preset that's 1/4 size of the master. Use that as your proxy file. Create your Sequence as HD and feel free to reposition your frames then export to HD. All scaling will be using the original master frame size as long as you toggle the Proxy button off.
Hey thank you for your help very good videos here. I HAVE A QUESTION, when I create my sequences I am changing the codec to GOPRO CINEFORM (YUV-10 BIT) in order to render my timeline and then check the box USE PREVIOUS for a faster rendering export process of my project, but my output to export is codec H264 (I AM shooting with a sony a7sii format XAVC S) ...I am wondering if rendering with codec GOPRO CINEFORM (YUV-10 BIT) in my timeline and then exporting using PREVIEWS with codec H264 makes the video lose quality? THANKS!
If you're changing the Sequence settings because you think that will increase performance, it won't. Just use the settings that come with the Sequence format you're choosing. The settings you're choosing only affect rendering during editing, not export.
Is Cineform codec the best choice for Windows users in rendering a clip and sending it to someone else which he/she will use it as a BRoll on his/her project? If not, what's the best alternative for ProRes codec? Thank you.
Yes Cineform would be a good codec for that but you need to communicate with the person you're sending it to and check if they can accept that format. If they're using the latest version of Premiere Pro, then you're good to go. DNxHD is also good for that but you'd have to check with them first.
Great video Colin. I'll have to remember Cineform for the right situations. Did you see the new button in the program monitor that turns off all effects. Way cool!
Thanks for the tutorial! So a cineform proxy could only be beneficial if we want to have an alpha channel right? Because if its for a regular shot, h264 proxies work just fine
You need to test that out for yourself. Personally, I stay away from H.264 proxies and just go for smaller frame sizes with ProRes/Cineform, etc.. I think that codecs like Cineform do playback better than H.264, but do a side by side test so you can see if the file size savings might be worth sacrificing performance gains.
You also use the 10-bit (no alpha) for other uses too, it's not just for animations like I showed. H.264 is fine for proxies where small file sizes matter.
I agree. This tutorial came about when many DSLR users would freaking out because when they created Cineform proxies, their hard drives were filled with huge files.
hi colin, can you do additional test with the footage being put into extreme editing condition like noise reduction software, warp stabilizer, heavy color works, stuff like that, because what i've been hearing is cineform being lighter when editing compared to h264. for low budget editors like me, that would make all the difference.
All those effects you mentioned should be applied to the original clip, and not a copy as there is the most data in the original. Converting to any other format does not give better effects results.
so basically transcoding to cineform as optimized codec does zero to minimal in helping the computer from being taxed very hard with those editing that i mentioned?
Hii Video revele my self Jass and I want a ingest with smaller size because i dont have too much space> using Cinerform 1280X720 is good but this Ingest need lotsof space> See like i have on file with 100MB with the size of 1920X1080 and when we made a proxey file with quicktime + cineform 1280X720 the file size got big like 300MB wich is not good for me. Can u plz help me for this
That's exactly what this tutorial shows. Cineform looks great but is much larger. You're only choices are: 1. Add more storage 2. Use H.264 and choose a very small frame size.
Agreed. My recent testing : 1min H265 4K = 1min Cineform UHD 4K at High setting = 2.1gb (1) $65 Samsung 500GB EVO SSD = >200min. (assuming only ~420GB usable) Maybe SSD prices were more prohibitive in 2017, but as of today file size isn't as much of an issue.
The only thing you do is increase the file size dramatically. Converting H.264 to Cineform does not add additional data, it just fills in the previously compressed data with no new data. Cineform is great as an intermediate codec, but only from codecs that contain the same or more data.
Size is a HUGE issue for many NEW users. That's the reason I created this tutorial because users shooting on DSLRs where freaking out that Cineform used tons more space. I did not mention that this didn't apply to professionals because I thought they understand that right away.
@@cineaudiophile4465 usually the editing formats (in Prores, in Cineform, etc) are used immediately to edit the video in them and then they are deleted (but the hard disk will fill up quickly)
No advantage over H264 for drone footage? If only for one reason, editing. H264 @4K 60fps is a slide show to edit in Premiere/DaVinci. Rendering out to Cineform/DNx for proxy file usage is the difference between being able to edit and wanting to throw your PC through the window. There doesn't need to be any other reason. So many people are advised to buy newer hardware or (heaven forbid) Macs to solve this issue when they should be using proxy files.
Yep, that's a good reason. This tutorial was more about the comments I was getting regarding how much disk space Cineform was taking. For pro users Cineform is awesome, for RUclipsrs, no so much.
I’d like to see the topic of file formats for fastest editing. I’m a relative novice and have only used cineform as a way to get the alpha channel for exporting rendered green screen tracks. I’m thinking this is only one of many great uses.
These CineForm files are HUUUUUUGE: 1/4 sized down "low res" file is 3X larger than the original HEVC file!!! O_o I'm trying to set up my Notebook for editing, but I'm stuck and don't know what to do, because my usual 100GB+ source project will take 300GB+ only for proxies, and will not fit my fixed SSD drive, which is 250GB (only 150GB of which is actually free). So I have to store proxies on the same slow USB drive where my original footage is. The bottleneck will be this USB disk speed. This will be faster, but not so fast as it could be on SSD. Yes, I can make proxies in h264, but this does not help much with performance as it is with CineForm. Or I have to buy another large SSD drive(s) - at least 500GB per project (!) only for proxies, which will be quite expensive.
@@VideoRevealed thanx! I found that the DNxHD LB is better suited for proxies than CineForm or h264. It is intra-frame codec, which is is good for editig performance, but can be set to low bitrate, which is good for storage capacity and speed.
There IS benefit in converting h264 to cineform. Cineform is way faster in editing because premiere pro doesn't need to decode it's dense compression in realtime, as it does with h.264. Struggled very hard with performance on a music video with h264 footage having lots of effects, speed reverses, slowmo-s, etc., but after changing my previews from mpeg to cineform, I feel like I'm editing in heaven. For more info, I recommend you to watch this video and try it: ruclips.net/video/YUp2blVU7Bc/видео.html I'ts better to have larger files and pre-render cineform once, than having low performance while editing. We're creating videos, not optimizing hard drive space :)
The main reason I did this tutorial was for DSLR users who were surprised at how much larger the Cineform files were for *them*. I agree with your assessment but for that particular audience, it was not a good choice. I should have stated that.
I rather disagree. I like to use Cineform or ProRes for 4K proxies, as long as they are HD or smaller. I don't mind about the file size as I do about the ease of editing with those files (performance) and I think a lot of editors probably feel this way. I find H.264 files at any size problematic to edit with, even at these small proxy file sizes. Proxies are used to save space, sure, but I think even more important is the file handling, ease of scrubbing, no lagging or hitching in playback, and other performance issues- those things should be considered, as well.
For sure, no one should be editing those huge DJI 4K files natively. I agree there.
That's odd, I've been editing H.264 HD files fluidly with no issues since Adobe introduced the Mercury Playback Engine.
Just my opinion. People with underpowered systems might have more issues. I'll go back and see if these smaller files might make sense. I've always had better performance with intraframe codecs.
I disagree in almost all you said.
I think it depends on what kind of edit, how many tracks, the effects applied, etc. Cineform it's an intermediate codec and it's designed to be easy to edit, H264 it's all about file sizes. Also cineform works great with multiple editing applications, not just premiere. Yes you can do simple edits right out the h264 files, but even reversing an h.264 clip will result in an unusable timeline.
The bottom line, i think, it's that if the codec does not fit your workflow it doesn't necessarily make it a useless codec. Nowadays storage is really cheap, so for serious work it shouldn't be an issue.
Just so you know, this tutorial came about from comments sent from a lot of RUclipsrs who were not happy with the large files that Cineform was giving them. I would expect any professionals to already have a solid workflow using their own workflow which may or may not include Cineform.
I can see why YTers might be concerned. I'm more into smoother workflows regardless of file sizes, so I am of the latter group. I use ProRes, usually.
The whole point of Cineform is proxies. Yes, they're larger, but they have nearly no CPU decode requirements (it beats prores in every aspect: CPU requirements, and image quality at fixed bitrate targets). For people who can't benefit from h.264/h.265 accelerated decoding (like editing 4k60 h.265 on laptops or Ryzen CPUs without quicksync extensions), proxy workflows are essential, and Cineform is probably the best proxy/intermediate codec out there. I'm fairly shocked at your conclusions in the video. (Maybe it's time for an updated video?)
Maybe I should have been clearer, this tutorial was (generally speaking) for RUclipsrs who are not familiar with the storage needs of intermediate files. They were freaking out that their DSLR clips would taking up huge amounts of space after converting them.
@@VideoRevealed If that's the case, I would amend the description, and possibly the title, so that the intention is more clear before watching the video.
Gotta join the disagree crowd here. For more old-school "offline" vs "online" workflows, wanting your proxies to be "smaller" makes some sense, but file size isn't the main contributing factor when it comes to generating proxies while shooting with hard-to-decode formats. The point is to have low decode latency formats and very decode efficient formats - which Cineform is. Bigger file sizes, but MUCH easier to decode, just like DNxHR/ProRes. The i-frame only MPEG or H264 is okay if you NEED small file size proxies, but I really, reeaaallly don't see that as being the point.
100% agree with you. The main reason I created this was for RUclipsrs who were unhappy with Proxies being larger than their media. These are people shooting on a DSLR with H.264 and creating Proxies with Cineform. For them, it makes no sense.
@@VideoRevealed Ah yeah, definitely not
@@VideoRevealed Great point and info. The added context you provide here in the comments would go a long way in the video.
What would be a good intermediate (not sure Im using the right term) codec? By intermediate what I mean when I use this term is something that is easy to edit and mostly something that doesn't significantly degrade if I render it multiple times by moving it through different software. I can accept a bigger size, but I wouldn't want more than 10x in size. Ideally 3 to 5x the size of an x264?
I always thought prores is that, but I'm not sure and also there are a bunch of different Prores files. How about Prores 422 LT? I can except a tiny bit of degradation, but not as much as with h264.
Another question would be is it ok to convert 8 bit h264 420 into Prores 10 bit 422 LT to use it as an "intermediate codec" as I understand it? Would it hurt the colors in any way?
I know that you explained some of that in this video, but I'm a beginner, so I might not have understood everything you said.
Not sure if you've found this out since making this, but just so you know, you don't have to turn off proxies in premiere before exporting. Premiere exports with the original media unless you make that media offline. And if it does export with the proxies, it gives you a warning message before letting you know it can't find the original media.
Cool. Thanks.
3:18 You can just right click and then click properties. Or hold alt and double click.
Ok. MediaInfo gives you way more data though.
Loving your videos in Oct 2021. Thank you for such great lessons and information. You are one of my new favorites that I follow for Adobe apps.
Thanks so much. I've been thinking about this tutorial and I originally made it when too many RUclipsrs where surprised at how much space QuickTime files take. But since then, Adobe and Apple have worked together to make QuickTime a standard format so I will be doing a new tutorial in the future on how to use all the newest QuickTime formats.
Personally I color correct my DSLR footage in Davinci and render MXF Files then go to editing in Premiere and import them
for image and audio editing, then I render a Master in Cineform that will be used for rendering H264 for RUclips, MP4 for telephone, DVD files, Blu-ray files, MPG2 for TV, AND Works great.
Felipe Henao what are the benefits of doing your way
Davinci is by far a better color grading software and the file format keeps solid the grading before editing an adding Effects with Premiere, Aftereffects, and working audio with Audition
Cineform is great for that workflow.
dudeclaude: If you've never worked with a node based program, get ready for a massive learning curve. DaVinci Resolve is very powerful but you will probably find yourself struggling just to import your footage.
Wait, what? So if I have h.264 footage and I'm going to color grade in Da Vinci I should be rendering a master in Cineform? Or should I just keep it native.. Also I usually edit my footage first and then color grade.. I only shoot 1080p and my system has no issues with playback..
Color grade native H264 and render MXF in Davinci, then edit MXF in Premiere, Aftereffects.
If I shot in h264 and want to export loseless to bring the file in again in premiere. What export settings should I choose not to degrade my footage? Cheers!
Exporting H.264 does not change the quality, it just makes the file much larger.
Hi Collin. Thank a lot for the tip! :) What is the "include handles" checkbox used for?
Handles are extra media before and after the IN and OUT point. Handles are useful if you want to shift the clip or the IN/OUT points after you've trimmed the media. You don't see the handles, it's just extra frames on each side.
If you didn't choose handles, then you'd see the white triangles that indicate the media is at the end. Here's a tutorial on the white triangles:
ruclips.net/video/58sU2V5hos4/видео.html
I prefer converting my h.264 video files to cineform as it is intraframe and doesn't have the higher CPU overhead of the interframe h.264 codec. My pc is 7 years old. On newer hardware I agree it might not be worth it.
You're right, H.264 does push the CPU quite a bit.
@@OffbeatBryce When you transcode mp4 to cineform. What do you export it as?
So, in the case of videos recorded by a GoPro HERO6 in 4K, which are encoded in HEVC, I should make proxies in H264 for working in Adobe Premiere Pro, and then just export in full resolution, right? If I try to edit HEVC footages directly, I miss a lot of frames. I just have one doubt: do you get any audio desync when switching from proxies to your actual video source?
Audio will not be affected and you can work with Proxies like you're working with the originals.
Hiya Colin …was wondering if you have a video that talks about the new versions of codecs for Premiere 2018 CC , I have been using Premiere for editing clip for Stock footage agencies , and my preferred code always was PhotoJPEG for coding videos - much , much better , for colour , than H264 , but also much heavier and bigger file , and was wondering if you have a video talking about the possible substitutes codecs for the new version of premiere, things likethe differences and recommendations for H264 -over - Prores 422 - DNxHR 12bit - DNxHR 8bit - ??? since the new version of premiere no longer supports PhotoJPEG…???
Any alternatives you might recommend ??
Kind regards …and keep up the excellent work /channel..!!
Hey Ray, can you please contact me at the link below? I'd like to continue this conversation in detail via email with you. I'm engaging the Adobe folks on this one.
videorevealed.com/contact.html
OK...!!
Thanks Reaveled for uploading best videos.
Thanks for your support.
I learnt a lot from your channel...
Thanks for awesome tutorials sir...
I am From Nepal
I learnt a lot from your channel...
Thanks for awesome tutorials sir...
I am From Nepal
Could you post the link to your Proxy Workflow tutorial please.
Also would appreciate reason for choosing the VLC Player.
Thank you in advance.
This should help you get started: helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/how-to/proxy-media.html
At the end of my tutorials, I post a like to other tutorials that relate to the content. This one contained the Proxy Tutorial: ruclips.net/video/993mbUa0h-w/видео.html
I use VLC simply because it plays almost any format I throw at it. It's an ugly program for sure, but I just care about being able to play anything.
Also, I have removed all Apple software from all my systems as Apple is not supporting QuickTime on Windows anymore.
Appreciate your efforts to put these informative videos..Thanks a ton
You're very welcome.
Question please: if I'm shooting on a GoPro Hero 5, using 2.7k linear and want to have the final rendered output from premiere as 1080p, then which proxy codec is best to use and in which size? I'm editing on a slow Mac. I tend to have the sequence set to 1080p and want to reposition and scale the footage up (zoom in) somewhat. Apple pro res in a size larger than 1080p? Thanks
You should create a new Encode preset that's 1/4 size of the master. Use that as your proxy file.
Create your Sequence as HD and feel free to reposition your frames then export to HD. All scaling will be using the original master frame size as long as you toggle the Proxy button off.
VideoRevealed got it thanks!
Hey thank you for your help very good videos here. I HAVE A QUESTION, when I create my sequences I am changing the codec to GOPRO CINEFORM (YUV-10 BIT) in order to render my timeline and then check the box USE PREVIOUS for a faster rendering export process of my project, but my output to export is codec H264 (I AM shooting with a sony a7sii format XAVC S) ...I am wondering if rendering with codec GOPRO CINEFORM (YUV-10 BIT) in my timeline and then exporting using PREVIEWS with codec H264 makes the video lose quality?
THANKS!
If you're changing the Sequence settings because you think that will increase performance, it won't. Just use the settings that come with the Sequence format you're choosing. The settings you're choosing only affect rendering during editing, not export.
Great, thank you very much, your channel is really really helpful keep it up.
Is Cineform codec the best choice for Windows users in rendering a clip and sending it to someone else which he/she will use it as a BRoll on his/her project? If not, what's the best alternative for ProRes codec? Thank you.
Yes Cineform would be a good codec for that but you need to communicate with the person you're sending it to and check if they can accept that format. If they're using the latest version of Premiere Pro, then you're good to go. DNxHD is also good for that but you'd have to check with them first.
VideoRevealed Thank you very much.
It's a very godlike codec for me working on editing and effects in after effects.
Good to hear!
Great video Colin. I'll have to remember Cineform for the right situations. Did you see the new button in the program monitor that turns off all effects. Way cool!
Yep, that's a great button.
Thanks for the tutorial! So a cineform proxy could only be beneficial if we want to have an alpha channel right? Because if its for a regular shot, h264 proxies work just fine
You need to test that out for yourself. Personally, I stay away from H.264 proxies and just go for smaller frame sizes with ProRes/Cineform, etc.. I think that codecs like Cineform do playback better than H.264, but do a side by side test so you can see if the file size savings might be worth sacrificing performance gains.
You also use the 10-bit (no alpha) for other uses too, it's not just for animations like I showed. H.264 is fine for proxies where small file sizes matter.
This tutorial was a response to many comments I received from uses not wanting large proxy files.
I don't mind my proxy files being bigger if it means my computer runs smoother (which even for 720p cineform proxy it does)
I agree. This tutorial came about when many DSLR users would freaking out because when they created Cineform proxies, their hard drives were filled with huge files.
Really amazing video!
Thanks!
hi colin, can you do additional test with the footage being put into extreme editing condition like noise reduction software, warp stabilizer, heavy color works, stuff like that, because what i've been hearing is cineform being lighter when editing compared to h264. for low budget editors like me, that would make all the difference.
All those effects you mentioned should be applied to the original clip, and not a copy as there is the most data in the original. Converting to any other format does not give better effects results.
so basically transcoding to cineform as optimized codec does zero to minimal in helping the computer from being taxed very hard with those editing that i mentioned?
Ditya Alamsyah you get better performance... Trust me, I've done a lot of test. Is not huge but can be useful if your system isn't a high end.
Another cracking video Colin
Thanks man!
Haha, no probs.
does youtube support cineform codecs???
RUclips converts almost everything. But uploading a Cineform file won't improve the quality.
Can you recommend a safe place to download mediainfo? Thanks!
mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download
It can be very interesting a gadget that transforms the output of the camera HDMI in Cineform format and then record it on an SSD
Something like this?
www.atomos.com/ninjav
Hii Video revele my self Jass and I want a ingest with smaller size because i dont have too much space> using Cinerform 1280X720 is good but this Ingest need lotsof space> See like i have on file with 100MB with the size of 1920X1080 and when we made a proxey file with quicktime + cineform 1280X720 the file size got big like 300MB wich is not good for me. Can u plz help me for this
That's exactly what this tutorial shows. Cineform looks great but is much larger.
You're only choices are:
1. Add more storage
2. Use H.264 and choose a very small frame size.
Have learnt a lot from your channel and hope some of it shows in my content, think I have done ok as it's all self learnt , cheers
That's great to hear. Good luck with your channel.
Thank you for mediainfo :)
It's a freebie too! I use it in troubleshooting all the time. Invaluable.
I install this, very useful !
Great!
You bet!
"no benefit from converting H264 to cineform" ...errrr.. there are huge benefits converting H264 to an intermediate codec like cineform.
Agreed. My recent testing :
1min H265 4K = 1min Cineform UHD 4K at High setting = 2.1gb
(1) $65 Samsung 500GB EVO SSD = >200min. (assuming only ~420GB usable)
Maybe SSD prices were more prohibitive in 2017, but as of today file size isn't as much of an issue.
The only thing you do is increase the file size dramatically. Converting H.264 to Cineform does not add additional data, it just fills in the previously compressed data with no new data.
Cineform is great as an intermediate codec, but only from codecs that contain the same or more data.
Size is a HUGE issue for many NEW users. That's the reason I created this tutorial because users shooting on DSLRs where freaking out that Cineform used tons more space.
I did not mention that this didn't apply to professionals because I thought they understand that right away.
@@cineaudiophile4465 usually the editing formats (in Prores, in Cineform, etc) are used immediately to edit the video in them and then they are deleted (but the hard disk will fill up quickly)
No advantage over H264 for drone footage? If only for one reason, editing. H264 @4K 60fps is a slide show to edit in Premiere/DaVinci. Rendering out to Cineform/DNx for proxy file usage is the difference between being able to edit and wanting to throw your PC through the window. There doesn't need to be any other reason. So many people are advised to buy newer hardware or (heaven forbid) Macs to solve this issue when they should be using proxy files.
Yep, that's a good reason. This tutorial was more about the comments I was getting regarding how much disk space Cineform was taking. For pro users Cineform is awesome, for RUclipsrs, no so much.
I’d like to see the topic of file formats for fastest editing. I’m a relative novice and have only used cineform as a way to get the alpha channel for exporting rendered green screen tracks. I’m thinking this is only one of many great uses.
These CineForm files are HUUUUUUGE: 1/4 sized down "low res" file is 3X larger than the original HEVC file!!! O_o
I'm trying to set up my Notebook for editing, but I'm stuck and don't know what to do, because my usual 100GB+ source project will take 300GB+ only for proxies, and will not fit my fixed SSD drive, which is 250GB (only 150GB of which is actually free). So I have to store proxies on the same slow USB drive where my original footage is. The bottleneck will be this USB disk speed. This will be faster, but not so fast as it could be on SSD. Yes, I can make proxies in h264, but this does not help much with performance as it is with CineForm. Or I have to buy another large SSD drive(s) - at least 500GB per project (!) only for proxies, which will be quite expensive.
Sorry you're having issues but eventually you'll need to add more storage space. 250GB is going to constantly fill up.
@@VideoRevealed thanx! I found that the DNxHD LB is better suited for proxies than CineForm or h264. It is intra-frame codec, which is is good for editig performance, but can be set to low bitrate, which is good for storage capacity and speed.
There IS benefit in converting h264 to cineform. Cineform is way faster in editing because premiere pro doesn't need to decode it's dense compression in realtime, as it does with h.264. Struggled very hard with performance on a music video with h264 footage having lots of effects, speed reverses, slowmo-s, etc., but after changing my previews from mpeg to cineform, I feel like I'm editing in heaven. For more info, I recommend you to watch this video and try it:
ruclips.net/video/YUp2blVU7Bc/видео.html
I'ts better to have larger files and pre-render cineform once, than having low performance while editing. We're creating videos, not optimizing hard drive space :)
The main reason I did this tutorial was for DSLR users who were surprised at how much larger the Cineform files were for *them*. I agree with your assessment but for that particular audience, it was not a good choice. I should have stated that.
It's worst
Worst...as in what?
I was going to ask the same thing.
Hi Gage, do you care to elaborate?
hello 911...i would like to report a grammar crime.