VzBoT Bed Levelling
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2023
- In this one I show how I do my manual bed levelling, so it can help VzBoT builders since this questions comes quite often.
full z install here : • VzBoT - Vz235 AWD Buil...
Hope this helps!
-Vz-HextrudORT: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEZ...
-Goliath: available on resellers and soon on Aliexpress
-Fly Super 8: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A8mOXD
-Drivers s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AFDBtp
- XY Motors: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9iN6y9
-Alu Water cooling blocks: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dn5...
-Fittings: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DEV...
-water cooling kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dnc...
-CPAP fan: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dmk...
-CPAP tube: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A9rUYd
-48V PSU: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dcf...
(complete part list can be found on the BOM list on github link below)
-Eibos filament dryer: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dc7...
Full VzBoT Printer project: (BOM, cad, stl): github.com/VzBot3D/
CNC Parts on Mellow Store Aliexpress or f3d-racing-fdm.myshopify.com/
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It's awesome that the bed never needs adjustment, I don't mind a tri Z but it adds an extra step to starting the print.
Love your channel Vez. My V0.1 uses this system and I love it. Set it and forget it. Currently working on my RR 400 and it is getting a VZ RatRig print head, Vz-Hextrudor and Goliath as upgrades. VZ235 is on my bucket list. I hope to build a "compact" one with less Z height as a mid-size, fast workhorse.
I use a flashlight to see if the nozzle touches. It's extreme precise and quick.
This new intro is the coolest so far :)
Personally I think the best all round solution is to have a probe, but NOT a kinematic bed.
I have a Rat Rig Vcore 3.1 and a TwoTrees SP5 - the SP5 is a similar bed setup to the VzBot, 2 lead screws and 2 motors but the motors are sync'd with a drive belt which means the bed is never gonna get out of whack. But then I have a probe for Z height so I never have to worry about it. I haven't done a manual adjustment or a bed mesh in at least 3 months now and i use it all day every day.
The Rat Rig however has to probe the 3 points every time as it can get out of whack when powered off. It only has to do it once or twice before each print but still thats more than my SP5 has to do.
People like the idea of a kinematic bed so they never have to manual level but actually in the long term it takes more time for every print. I will definitely go for a VzBot / Ender 5+ style bed for my next printer.
im with you here :)
Also a good habit to dial it in manually, true levelness is a testament to how little the axis motions overlap. Ie orthogonality is the goal, between axis as well z motion being normal to the bed surface.
Bed mesh leveling is great but can hide more serious issues with your setup
I second on waiting on the beacon!! ordered 2!
Amazing that what we was waiting for 🙌💪🙌🙌🙏
with perfect flat bed, its easy as you shown :)
I also found a truly level bed makes heat rise evenly around the bed. When uneven it accelerates air rise and causes one side to passively cool and the other to passively collect more heat.
I found this when printing large ABS prints while my printer was on an uneven shelf 😮
I have a passively heated enclosed Sermoon D1, but might soon actively heat it by installing a intake vent on top and pump it to the bottom while also adding a inline 25w heater
I was expecting some complicated mechanical means using advanced electronics to achieve angstrom level zero of the Z axis, but then you end up with more weight like the 'TAP'. Your way is better, KISS and use a thick base like on this machine, wow.
Can't wait to get my vz bot finished had a good jump on it or so I thought I ordered linear rails from my usual guy so I know there genuine or at least super good but the rails I got aren't straight.
For people with bed porbe, there is like a 4 point measurement where the screws are, klipper will tell you how to turn the level screws and then you do the mesh (dont know if you mentiont that in the video)
Yes I did :)
Software compensation is good for things where hardware compensation doesn't suffice or is not possible, like pressure advance. I will probably always keep leveling my bed manually. I do have to say that if you have relatively soft bed springs, the motion of the printer will eventually wiggle it loose, especially with bedslingers. I would like to see some kind of bed adjustment system where you can secure the screws. It'll be interesting to see if the bed ever moves again.
Just get silicon spacers, I rarely have to touch my leveling at all
@@felixfe7958 Silicon spacers below/above springs to increase tension you mean?
I really like the bambu labs printer idéa that it scan the whole bed and check how flat it is, then just adapt the first layer to the flattens. So it have more than just corner reference points.
Having a LADAR or RADAR or whater ever they use, seam to be pretty usable.
@@SoundShunter72 no, silicon spacers so it's on a fixed position
@@SoundShunter72 I would say instead, not above/below. That's the usual recipe, just sort of a cylinder with a screw size hole through the middle. They are themselves a spring damper system with a very strong damper; springs are springs, even if you compress them more and install something to force them to turn less, they're still gonna bounce, which is just bad news all around.
Your Z-System is the primary reason I'm avoiding a VzBot until there is a more modern z-system like 3 lead screws approach. I believe there is sufficient evidence that hand adjusted z is a bad idea (Ender 3/Ender ..../insert Ender clone here). There is no doubt it can be hand adjusted and "It will be fine for months". But realistically most printers have moved on from that for a reason. It is a lot easier to control and do a good Z-adjustment on a printer that does it using accurate sensors than needing to do this by hand.
You know that I run a beacon sensor? And it can run with any sensor you like? You know there is also a 3z mod? But for me, my single Z is just too good to switch to anything else. Simple and effective and very very consistent layer height. Going 3 Z can go bad most of the time. More components, more excentricity, more parts that can fail.. more tuning.. etc.. this z has proven me to be a work horse that is very very precise
Thank you 🙏
I'm a firm believer in lvling the bed once forever, lvl eveytime means the machine is not tuned right.
Thank you for your time to make this video.
After the first video you released on discord now I can print without the probe thanks to you.
Then I tried the Retractable Klicky mod, that we have on our discord, I realized that there is a strange thing going on between the manual and probe leveling. When I do probe leveling, (adjusting screws using probe) mesh seems ok by probe, but when I adjust screws by feeler 0.1mm then I do probe bed mesh, the result is strange, left side shows high and right side negative, and when I print nozzle digging the right that show negative. I'm very confused.
If someone can explain this
Without mesh how do you deal with imperfections in the bed plate and expansion from heat causing flatness to go out?
I really like your project and may even build one for myself in a few years when I've worn out my Voron. The way you've designed your Z-axis is very 'old school' with 4 linear guides plus 2 lead screws. I don't get why you didn't go for some form of auto-level; I understand you don't want to carry a probe around on that racing head but since complexity and cost is obviously not a big factor here, why not go for a 'Voron Klicky' style probe and auto leveling.
Also, water cooled head means you are going to print in a heated chamber... Once the chamber heats up, your z adjustment need to be rechecked and if it takes many minutes to do, you will cool down the chamber. auto leveling (and bed mesh) should be done with the printer all heated up to its final print temperature.
I love this project and always looking forward to see what you've come up.. that water cooled print head is amazing BTW . Cheers Bonhomme!
old school is cool ;) And there many probes you can fit on the printer. ABL is no issue here... but i dont need it myself.. so why would I add one ? People can add one if they need one. We have tons of mods for that. We also have a non official 3z but i much much much prefer single Z. Old school yes.. but way to go for me. Do you see a lot of industrial printers with other stuff that this ? Not much. Its simple, its working good. low maintenance etc.. The fact that I did this was because the project was originally from a Tronxy X5S printer. And this VzBoT was an upgrade to the X5S people. Had to keep compatibility etc.. If I had to to change the Z to something else, I would STILL run 1 Z motor, but would do it like Bambulab did. 3 lead screws, one Z motor.
on the voron klicky probe topic... you probably dont know because I dont talk about this on my youtube channel, but the printhead has that option already. Quick Draw probe from Annex. And some are using it already. I personally dont like the added complexity, weight, etc etc.. now if I had bad first layers and Z issues, I would consider all options. I dont :) The only thing that I will be testing is the new Beacon probe from Annex guys. I think its just too cool to not try, but I will probably try it and remove it, because again, my bed is flat is the system is working flawless for me as is, so I dont want to add anything to it. But Beacon, quickdraw, BL touch, inductive 8mm probe, etc etc are all supported on the VzBoT.
also.. why do people always just assume that watercool head is ONLY good for heated chamber ? It has many more advantages even if you print just PLA with a cool chamber. As for the Z when its heating up... no I never have to do any other adjustement when its heated. My chamber is running at 45c. I never touch the bed adjuster adter I am done on the first tuning. Well, very very rarely. :)
@@Vez3D I have 0.100 difference on z between my PLA and ASA profiles.. that'd the basis of my comment ; ) but I agree 100% on all you said. Keep it up and thanks !
VZ life! :P
Hi Vez. I can't help but think that unequal backlash in the oldham couplers makes this levelling method sub-optimal. Shouldn't we be making level adjustments under a "second layer" environment? Perhaps a macro for using feeler guages for seting the four corners - with the backlash taken up?
There is not enough backlash to cause issue since the z moves up and down high enough to clear that backlash.
@@Vez3D but the degree of backlash isn't necessarily the same between 2 given couplers - the first batch from mellow werent the most consistent. The concern I raise is that if you level off the upward stroke, the downward stroke may result in the bed tilting. But maybe if the leveling function has the nozzle touching the centre of the bed, but the corner levelling done by raising, then lowered to accept a feeler guage seems a workable and repeatable solution.
@@jezdimir2007 thats why you do a final adjustement when it starts to print. it will do it on the downward stroke of the Z system...then backlash doenst matter anymore. But one thing I need to mention is that the radial friction on the oldham coupler with bed weight is good enough that backlash doesnt happen for me. But its not enough friction to block the oldham coupler from the strong wobbling force of the lead screw if there is any wobbling in axial direction.
@@Vez3D have you every heard the old joke that the optimist see's the glass as half full, the pessimist sees the glass half empty, and the engineer sees you're using twice as much glass than you need. I only suggest that a small tweak would eliminate that final adjustment.
Love the AWD but the Z is kinda dated compared to similar corexy printers.
Not saying it causes any issues necessarily but if it had a maxewell belted Z like a K3 it would be more "Cutting edge" like the rest of the printer ♥
Yeah, and it would deviate further from the original goal, a fixed tronxy printer. Now it's becoming more and more a voron/annex and frankly we don't need more of those. This should be a fast and easy mod to make a very good printer, not something chasing every little detail.
And what more does this going to going to give me? My Z works perfectly like that :) simple and effective. Very effective. I dont get why people want to add more to something that works good already. Add more complication..motors.. heardware.. etc. What issue are we trying to fix here? None for me :) i get perfect layering
@@Vez3D praise! Thanks for the awesome mod man, keep it clean!
And also.. this full z aluminum is so good looking. :) at least for my taste
Looks dated? a perfectly functional system is not like milk it doesn't go out of date.
Pressure sensor and LED - like in Kobra Max would speed up things ;-)
I made it slow to show people.. its not slow to do in real-world :) takes like 2-3min
Do they share the same z belt size ?
Why don't use the whole hotend and the metal sheet as a normally open circuit? Don't know if the pei sheet is conductive but the aluminum plate shure is.
Then you have to be sure the pei sheet is perfect, the same issue we have with inductive probes - after alu plate levelling we have no level on print surface. Method in this video or mechanical probes like euclid are the way to be sure we have perfect level to print, even if magnetic and PEI is not perfect.
is it normal to have to change Z offset for different filaments to get a perfect first layer or does this mean I have the temp of the filament maybe too low?
e.g between PLA and ABS with such a difference in bed and hotend temp
not normal.. I dont touch the Z height once its set. you may have to change first layer height based on what you print though in slicer
@Vez3D oh do you have to change first layer height for different filaments?
I've currently got mine always set to 0.24mm and Initial Layer Line Width always set to 120%
@@littleoz2 well honestly I always do 0.2 whatever material and I never had issue. once in a while I readjust the height of corners, but rarely
@Vez3D 0.2 first layer height?
I increased mine because of Ellis' print tunung guide said to increase it to 0.25 or greater but think the "magic number" of the z was 0.24 so I went with that, probably sounds really nooby compared to what you do haha sorry!
@@littleoz2 no not all..I should use higher layer height too for first layer. 0.24 seems perfect to me.
Hey I might have something really interesting for your build. I have been playing around building machines and I have a printable frame / 4x Z axis screw / straight rods and end stop at each position (top/bottom) integrated in easy to print parts.
Really super sturdy, easy to build and I built up to 64ft/c machines with it. It use 2020 and 2040.
I am not on social media but send me a pm Ill send you a cad file so you can have a look...
Thanks Vez, this kind of video is very useful just to show how simple it is - this is very much like an Ender-3 levelling :) for the first adjustment of the corners, it can be best to move everything by hand (as your text caption in the video says)
Three questions,
1. Is it better to use three bed screws, not four, since three points define a plane? i.e. one of the bed screws should be halfway along one side
2. Does this Z-height drift with temperature? Should all the adjustments be made with the bed at temperature - and does the bed turn into a ‘taco’ when it’s heated, making mesh levelling necessary?
3. The thick aluminium bed obviously has considerable mass. Do you use Z-lift on retract? Usually it is used to prevent the nozzle scraping lines across the surface during travel moves - I wonder if the heavy bed and single stepper motor can move fast enough to keep up with your print speeds :)
Thanks for all you do, I’m a 120mm (big fan) :D
1- i personally think that we need 4 corners support on big bed. It really helps stabilizing the bed and keeps it for resonating too much. A good 3z system i think is like hevort. It still has 4 corners support but 3 on a bed frame. That makes the bed plate stable and kills vibration. But yes..3 points define a plane here. But there is more than just this.. bed vibration is under rated and we should pay attention to this a lot
2- not enough to change much. But the final adjustment is when printing.. so this is where you make everything perfect.
3- check my other video about how strong that single z motor is. I do z hop sometimes at super high speed and its not an issue. I even tried quick Z movements with 25lbs weight on the bed
One of the main reasons i have triple z. i hate levelling the bed and there is basically no way to get it more perfect. its not the simplest solution tho haha
Main reason why i have this single z is exactly the same..i hate doing levelling ...so this system you do it once and for all... and be done with it. No probing at each print..no nothing.
We also have a 3z option if people prefer that :)
this does not translate to most printers, since they don't have milled and stress relieved aluminium beds.
my bed is warped in itsself and 4 point leveling won't fix that ^^
Why not? You need to level your bed no matter what even if your bed is warped. then if its warp you add a probe. Vzbot has many probe options
But yeah this video is for vzbot as the title says :)
Just done this, also using probe fixed my issue thank you @vez3d
Where can I find info on the annex probe can’t find anything unless I’m hearing you wrong is it piton?
I guess you use mellow super infinite for your vzbot. Can you add 2 pt1000 probes to it? Is it any way of using them
sure ..there are many more ADC input
@@Vez3D so i can connect pt1000 probes directly into thermistor port?