I don't understand people giving out hard comments on this. Man invested time and testing reusing and recycling and they compare it to polished out industrial true and tested 10x more expensive solution? What morons. Yes i get it some just want to have something that they can pay for and it works. Good for you. But there are others who like to tinker and experiment with entusiasm for it. Give this man a chanche and good work sir.
Thank you Samurai! Exactly, I want to tinker with a scientific fundament so that people can make new things with less expenses and at the same time unique features that are not on the market. In this example there is the storage feature and "cogeneration" of cold and heat.
the germans will never allow this, they will buy you too, my friend, don't worry, I mean they will buy your inventions and the ordinary common man has to pay!
I don't understand the negative comments here. The COP obviously depends to a large extent on the scrap ACs used - if you use an AC with an average COP, you won't get the highest efficiency out of it. But that's not the point of the video, the video is about possibilities, DIY and lowest cost. You start like this, and keep improving.
Thank you Chblabah, you got it! Trying comes first, perfection afterwards. Important is starting and ... power to the people. And perfection comes also from you, my commenter with good advice. I will respond to all, after my trip that ends tomorrow. Also the promised video for today must wait because of this trip, sorry!
@@nnvasen-good-energy Germany, i build most of my Solutions in DIY, LIFE4PO battery, with OpentDTUOnBattery, reading and control power data. Its so much cheaper and you have more control of it.
Very good, we need stuff like this to understand how to use cheap and easily available equipment and adapt/improve it for our purpose. While the efficiency obviously will not reach what much more expensive high end water to water heatpumps can do, stuff like this is very helpful for those who are willing to invest a little time and effort in small solutions like this. Thank you very much for this video and your experience!
Thank you very much Hans for your support! It is indeed much fun, even if sometimes stressful to do all the research, experiments, filming and editing in one week. But it is a surprise that there is so much unknown to find if you go out and turn all the stones upside down.
Well done sir. I experimented with my own heating system, just as you did. Ultimately it gave me the confidence to pull out my oil boiler and install two heat pumps and a heat bank. By not using the government £5k grant i could buy 2 units for less than the cost of an MCS approved unit. One unit heats the radiators and the heat bank, the other is a split air con that cools as well as provide back up heat in really cold weather. The system thermally charges overnight on a 7p/kWh EV tariff and is topped up during the day from a solar car port. 2nd hand Renault Zoe's are also cheap nowadays, so going fossil fuel free really can be done on a budget and the reward is a lifetime of lower (sometimes negative) bills.
Hi Bolwem, you are mile ahead of me! I guess you are in the UK (pence/kWh). It is encouraging that you also could take out the fossil fuel boiler away. Is the Zoe also giving power? I guess that only the newest cars can take & give power.
You are my kind of a guy. Really a similar project to what I did. Couple of years ago I was renovating my late father's house. I put new central heating in with fireplace connected to it and for storage I use 2000 liter buffer tank. Heat pumps are very over priced around here and 15kW pump would cost me around 12,000 to 15,000€ with installation. So I bought two new 7kW air inverter conditioners, around 800€ each and made two coaxial heat exchangers. After a lot of work and some more money it started working and is heating the third season now. The heat pump cost was around 2,500€ at the end. I saved more money that year that I could earn in that time.
1,5 kw per hour, means that with 1.098 kw per month using air conditioning for exemple you can heat any house you want. I have seen many comparisons like this one, like heating with a hair dryer. If a hair dryer takes 2 kw it means that in a month it will theoretically consume 1464 kw. Huge. One can buy a high efficiency air conditioning unit from the latest generation and it will be more effective, without all the improvisations. But in the end a house consumption will depend on it's insulation and how much heat you recover from ventilation.
Hi Florin, I mean indeed to multiply the 1,5 kW with the Coefficient of Performance (COP) of a heat pump to arrive at 4,5, which is the steady state heat loss of a normal house (with decent insulation). I am not at a COP of 3, even. That is because the system for taking heat from the condensor and evaporator has to be improved. The point of all this effort is that I want to integrate heat pump with the water storage so that I can store it in sunny hours or other good conditions (like cheap grid energy in the night) so that I can give a boost when I want to. For example to give 20 kW when I come into a cold house. Or hot house, because this system is for summer and winter. The current problems with grid capacity really asks Demand Side Management (DSM) also from us households.
Dear Janet, I never will have a swimming pool 🙂 but a swimming pool heat pump : yesss! I see it as an air to water heat pump and that has many applications.
Nice experiment. I have rebuild my 250m2 house and before the rebuild created a lot of excelsheets with how my house should become starting with the basis that i only want an ventilation heat pump at 5Kw. The result is that now I am all electric and use 9000 kWh per year on electricity. Heating, Cooking, lighting everything. That boils down to an average of 1 kW per hour.
Hi RetakenRoots (I suppose that means that you turned to a living style closer to nature?). That is a great accomplishment. By the way, you can say 1 kWh per hour or just average 1 kW. For such a house not bad at all. I don't know in what climate you live and that will determine if you need more energy in winter or also need cooling in summer. Such electrification means that you can focus on getting as much as possible nature electricity.
I live in the Netherlands so a moderate climate. The heat pump turns off in the beginning of april and turns on again at the end of October. The key is insulation insulation and insulation. In the three months of winter I use 50% of my total energy. I do not have solar as my energy needs are low when the sun shines and high when it does not. Very counter intuitive but that seems to be the case with my house now.
I lived in the Netherlands, too, during the first half of my life. Insulation is a good point. Maybe it should come also into my channel. For now I am more fascinated with active components and less specialised in parts of the building.
Grazie Massimo! Bello il tuo playlist sui viaggi, sono stato per lavoro a Budapest e ora vedo quanto ho perso. Se hai domande o idee per fare altri video sull'energia, lo puoi mettere qui. Oppure venire nel gruppo Facebook in italiano, facebook.com/groups/1307085856581981/ Buon anno!
Thank you Stripa, life on the Philippines must be interesting with so many islands that must have energy! I saw your presentation video of opening a coconut and remembered the 40 days I worked on Mauritius, where they have also a coco industry, especially on some smaller islands.
You should really figure out why that one evaporator is freezing, whether low on charge or the metering device is restricted. Great idea though, especially from an efficiency standpoint.
Thank you Snake8, I will analyse it but the watet temp in the big tank was 5 degrees the following day and then you really need much water to keep the evaporator above zero. See my answer above to Mark, about the rainwater reservoir. Another is to heat the water with spirals in the ground as I see in many youtube videos.
Yes Kay, very useful to add other heat sources to the heat sources. Also because you mention higher temperature sources that can "finish" the work of the heat pump that heats up to 45 degrees C.
Many existing standard air conditioning units have COP ratings of 3+ (the one I'm getting has a COP of 4) and can be bought/installed for £1000. Simple, standalone and compact. It's all well and good building a DIY version but heat pumps have been engineered 'to perfection' by manufacturers with lots of experience and the funds to deliver a finished product. In my case, if I fitted a solar PV system that could reliably deliver ~500W I'd have 'free' heating but (a) my location precludes such efficient solar operation and (b) the cost would 'never' be recouped. As for any other altruistic reasons for doing it I have many, many reservations about the so-called threats posed.
The problem is that water to water heat pumps are difficult to find and cost much. They are very useful for water based systems like central heating and heat storage. This latter feature is difficult to find on the market.
@@nnvasen-good-energy Aircon units are air-to-air heating and still have COP values exceeding 4 and a basic unit can heat 40m^3 for well under $1000. We're talking 250W input here - and achieved without complication of design, build or install. Much as I admire the work you've put in to your system - if only to show the processes of heat movement involved - it's still below current manufacturing quality/standards and not really a system that anyone but a dedicated tinkerer could achieve.
Hi Kell, I agree that it is a challenge to realise this all and I put a Difficulty Grade of 80%. Next year spring if we are in that house again, I will simplify it. My main point to do this complicated project is: - I see that there are no "cogeneration" plants where cold and heat are used at the same time, and it seems so rational to me to do so. At least in summer, it is easy to find an application for both. Double efficiency. - The water to water heat pump together with the water tanks gives better control of the temperature at the evaporator and condenser and makes compatibility with the water based home heating system intrinsic. - I am frustrated with the price difference between feed in (fotovoltaic) and purchase of electricity. We have 15 kWh of Lithium but that is full at noon (if we don't have guests in the holiday home) and then we can store it in the dirt cheap double tank of 2x12 kWh. There are a lot of points to improve and I invite you to watch the video after this one and then the video of next Saturday, where I go into detail.
*Due to the extreme drop in prices for solar panels green electricity can now be generated for only 3 to 8 cent/kWh!* Solar batteries are now also worthwhile. However, the extreme drop in prices is sure to continue in the coming years. You should therefore wait another 1-3 years.
I don't wait so long 😀! I find them already today cheap enough to integrate them into projects. Even to cover our roof terraces in Sicily with cane or even textile against the sun is nearly as expensive as with current PV prices.
It all depends on the heat demand of your house. If it's only 1.5kW at design temperature your house is either perfectly insulated, tiny or you're living in a warm climate zone (or a combination of the before mentioned). In that case I doubt that all the effort of your installation is necessary. Besides, storing energy in a water tank is not efficient AND not effective. One cubic meter (1.000Liter) provides about 10kWh heat. Even when perfectly insulated and stored inside it doesn't get you far in winter. A 10kWh battery stores an equivalent of 20-30kWh heat (powering your heat pump at COP between 2.3), can also be used to power your home, and has less standy by losses. So I don't critisize your enthusiasm or creativity but I doubt the effect in real life situations and the efficiency . With infinite effort you can achieve everything.
Hi Michael, thanks for the comments, they contain good information. Indeed long time storage is not possible without much more water and insulation. For short term it is very good though, and cheap. The advantage of short term storage is the wild variation in demand AND supply of (renewable) energy. And you can benefit from low cost electricity that will certainly come in the future as soon as we all discover that we have to create more flexibility in the demand supply problem.
Kudos for the idea, sir, thanks for sharing! I wonder if I could put my fridge radiator into water to heat it. Despite the climate change scam being proclaimed all around, the power efficiency you nailed meant much more for me, personally speaking. Have you considered using a warm floor system instead of radiators? By the rules of installation the temperature inside it should not exceed 25°C, thus your system would work twice more effecient, I guess. On the other hand, improving the radiators length /width could eliminate the fans usage, couldn't it? Good luck with your goals!
Hi Alexander, you are welcome and thank you for your good wishes! You can put the fridge radiator into water (like I do in my project of the Thermal Energy Storage (TES), in video 71, but it is big for a fridge. You are right that a warm floor is better, considering the low temperature. For a new house, where you have the option to choose for a warm floor it is ideal. The low Delta T between the floor and freezing temperature even allow to use latent heat of ice and get about 92 kWh from 1 m³ of water. Larger radiators will also do the job and allow a lower temperature, avoiding fans if very big, but that is a lot of costs.
Interesting i was thinking of an even smaller and simpler thing have the excess energy or off peak energy being fed into an element in a large water barrel for a single small room.
Even smaller? That will be a dehumidifier. I like them, too, for example for air change preheating. See ruclips.net/video/yanpHYSIcd8/видео.html, with time stamp already.
Very good system are we have a problem about suites, and apartments and i have the solution for this problem, the next to weeks come my system, S.U.E.S Smart Universal Energy System🎉🎉 Thank you for your good work❤❤
Ferry interesting, i have a pond of 50.000 liters that i wanted tou dump with soil. Then i got the idea of making a warm water cel of it. This video is verry interesting, i have sort of the same ideas. Doing the same is not making progress!
Hi Roelof, are also Dutch? A good idea to use the pond for energy. You can also fill it up with a long tube in spirals and then fill it up with earth if you want, that is also an energy storage for a heat pump, or you can fill it up with water, as you say!
Hi Mark, that is one of the reasons. The main thing is that this is my first working prototype and there are at least 10 point to improve. The strong point is that the 2x1000 litres are a great stabiliser for the operation conditions and there are many options to improve if you work with water and not air. For example we have a big underground rainwater pit wit 70 m3 and if I use it to keep the evaporator at 16 degrees C then I have paradise.
Purtroppo adesso no, ma ho vissuto e lavorato lì per un po', sono rimasti dei bei ricordi. A Modena.
2 месяца назад+5
Well... this ins quite janky, inefficient and not very durable... 1st: with a little bit deeper knowlege in HVAC and refrigeration, you can build a water to water heat pump from regular AC parts that will rival comnercial ones. - Maybe (maybe) recover the gas from the unit, take it apart and rebuild in a metal frame. - Get a brazing kit or hydraulic fittings for the copper lines. - Get a hvac gauge set, - a pair of standard 1/4 and 5/16 npt charging ports with schradder valves. - get a pair of copper brazed, stainless heat exchangers. 40-60 plates for your average small ac compressor. - fluorinated gases are hard to get if not licensed in hvac but r290 is not on the list. But is better than all F gases. It has just the flamability isdue but a propper hvac unit shall not leak, ever, period. - get aquinted with the refrigerant's pressure-temperature curves. - ditch the reversing valve system and maybe have a variable/controllable expansion valve. To keep it cheaper and simpler, but lower performance, regular capillary tube will do fine. - keep away from rain water and plain water. Rain water is corrosive, plain water is probe to freezing. - Circulate an aporopriate antifreeze mixture in the heat exchangers. - use a secondary heat exchanger to pass heat energy from the antifreeze to your ibc tanks of water. Run the antufreexe directly in your indoor radiators. This way you get a single box with power in and four, safe and easy to manage, not pressurized antifreeze ports. And tge box can stay outside, with you runnung cheap hoses or pipes, with some insulation, unside the house. An inverter-type compressor along a variable expansion valve can help modulate power and performance in accordance to outside/inside temperatures, demands/needs and even energy availability (like I run my heat pump on full blast when my batteries are full and it's still plenty daylight on or tune it way down just to compensate sone geat and let me burn less wood.)
I'm wondering if an automotive style AC/heat pump system would be easiest for an amateur? Am i correct that they go together with compression fittings? I've seen no-name Chinese 12/24v scroll compressors on eBay that i assume would work? I'd hope that a mechanic could charge it and adjust the TXV correctly for reasonable money?
2 месяца назад+1
@beetooex if you have access to a car graveyard. Otherwise, automotive parts are way pricier, proprietary and model dependent. For the very beginner I highly recommend starting with a buttload of hvac theory. Plenty of educational videos about it on youtube!
Thank you for the detailed info! I indeed bought a hvac gauge set and a vacuum pump and next year when I am there I might use them, I've also such a heat exchanger as you say, still waiting to be utilised. I got the app to calculate the curves of different refrigerants, but don't want to push to much outside the skill level of the big part of the audience. I see that you are miles ahead. I am aware of the advantage of inverter heat pumps. Will develop my skills in this area and present it in some simple way on this channel. Maybe I should start to assemble units and selling on internet in order to help my audience. Anyone who likes this idea? A kind of IKEA with ready components to make useful things that are not on the market.
Hi Beetooex, I asked in a car workshop about these systems. In usual cars they need an external motor because they are driven in the car by a belt. In EVs they are indeed stand alone and have this electric compressor incorporated, but you need high DC voltage for that. Also because there is quite some power in these systems, even if the car is much smaller than your house. An alternative are the camper AC system that go on 12 Volt of a battery. That can be fun to play with.
@@nnvasen-good-energy We have learnt the same things! I was thinking of the camper AC systems. I have found the manufacturer and specifications of the electric scroll compressor they use. They are available in 12v, 24v & 48v DC and are variable speed by PWM control. Maybe this means they are as efficient as a 230v inverter compressor? I don't have the knowledge of how to build a controller but I think someone clever could use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi for this purpose. There is no information on the coefficient of performance of these systems and I think it would only be worth trying if you absolutely needed a fully low voltage DC driven heat pump. The online discussions about them do say that the current draw (amps) is very high which could also be a problem.
I will figure out how to do it. A suggestion to go to advanced settings of RUclips and set English as preferred language doesn't work because the option is absent. Do you have an idea?
@@nnvasen-good-energy sorry, that was more of a note to myself, I was being silly as in I should have turned the subs on earlier. Your video was excellent and I enjoyed it.
BS you can convert cheap A/C to work as a heat pump and this can be a very cheap and effective way using cheap second hand Aircon unit, but you won't be able to get much from 1.5kW in any other than passive house.
Hi MM, I admit that 3 * 1,5 kW (which is the output of the heat pump if you give it 1,5 kW) is not much to get a cold house warm. In the video I say that it is for a steady state situation: to maintain a comfort temperature for an average house. Indeed, in an average Italian house and about 1800 degree-days as here in Florence, Italy, the standard wall mounted gas heater of the central heating with 22 kW will on average give 25% of its max heat. But coming in a cold house you need more. That is the reason that I have here big water tanks that can be charged with cheap night electricity and the release the heat quickly (power boost). I hope that helps!
@@MrMati489i I live in est part of Poland so winters are typicaly cold -5 and more . House 160m2, 4 people with heat recovery ventilation. Heat Pump Stiebiel Eltron HPA 08 using radiators heating season from October 2023 til April 2024 total power use including hot water 3500 kwh. I have 8kw solar panels house depends only on electric power . Power bil is less than 100$ per 6 months . All bought and installed by my self.
Hallo Peter, das ist nicht so konkret und ich kann nichts anderes damit dann alles kontrolieren, was ich in der Regel auch mache (nach automatischen Übersetzung). Nur wird das manchmal ein bisschen viel Arbeit mit 7 Sprachen. Normalerweise mache ich die Englischen Untertitel mit wirklich viel Aufmerksamkeit und dann stimmt es sehr gut in den anderen Sprachen. Wo genau war das Problem?
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't understand people giving out hard comments on this. Man invested time and testing reusing and recycling and they compare it to polished out industrial true and tested 10x more expensive solution? What morons. Yes i get it some just want to have something that they can pay for and it works. Good for you. But there are others who like to tinker and experiment with entusiasm for it. Give this man a chanche and good work sir.
Thank you Samurai! Exactly, I want to tinker with a scientific fundament so that people can make new things with less expenses and at the same time unique features that are not on the market. In this example there is the storage feature and "cogeneration" of cold and heat.
the germans will never allow this, they will buy you too, my friend, don't worry, I mean they will buy your inventions and the ordinary common man has to pay!
Nur wir verstehen es nicht und den Untertitel kann kein Mensch Lesen
We need more people like you. ❤👍
I thank you so much, Orad!
I don't understand the negative comments here.
The COP obviously depends to a large extent on the scrap ACs used - if you use an AC with an average COP, you won't get the highest efficiency out of it.
But that's not the point of the video, the video is about possibilities, DIY and lowest cost.
You start like this, and keep improving.
Thank you Chblabah, you got it! Trying comes first, perfection afterwards. Important is starting and ... power to the people. And perfection comes also from you, my commenter with good advice. I will respond to all, after my trip that ends tomorrow. Also the promised video for today must wait because of this trip, sorry!
I love DIY solutions like this, always inspiring :) !
Thank you so much, Landixus! From which country are you?
@@nnvasen-good-energy Germany, i build most of my Solutions in DIY, LIFE4PO battery, with OpentDTUOnBattery, reading and control power data. Its so much cheaper and you have more control of it.
Very good, we need stuff like this to understand how to use cheap and easily available equipment and adapt/improve it for our purpose. While the efficiency obviously will not reach what much more expensive high end water to water heatpumps can do, stuff like this is very helpful for those who are willing to invest a little time and effort in small solutions like this.
Thank you very much for this video and your experience!
Thank you very much Hans for your support! It is indeed much fun, even if sometimes stressful to do all the research, experiments, filming and editing in one week. But it is a surprise that there is so much unknown to find if you go out and turn all the stones upside down.
Very inspiring to watch. Thank you! 👍😊
Thanks from my side Jchathe!
Bravo for your amazing work.... you learnt how to do and it's the more important
Thank you Seby, I hope to continue next year May when back in that house, maybe also integrating with the current gasoline generator project...
Well done sir. I experimented with my own heating system, just as you did. Ultimately it gave me the confidence to pull out my oil boiler and install two heat pumps and a heat bank. By not using the government £5k grant i could buy 2 units for less than the cost of an MCS approved unit. One unit heats the radiators and the heat bank, the other is a split air con that cools as well as provide back up heat in really cold weather. The system thermally charges overnight on a 7p/kWh EV tariff and is topped up during the day from a solar car port. 2nd hand Renault Zoe's are also cheap nowadays, so going fossil fuel free really can be done on a budget and the reward is a lifetime of lower (sometimes negative) bills.
Hi Bolwem, you are mile ahead of me! I guess you are in the UK (pence/kWh). It is encouraging that you also could take out the fossil fuel boiler away. Is the Zoe also giving power? I guess that only the newest cars can take & give power.
You are my kind of a guy. Really a similar project to what I did. Couple of years ago I was renovating my late father's house. I put new central heating in with fireplace connected to it and for storage I use 2000 liter buffer tank. Heat pumps are very over priced around here and 15kW pump would cost me around 12,000 to 15,000€ with installation. So I bought two new 7kW air inverter conditioners, around 800€ each and made two coaxial heat exchangers. After a lot of work and some more money it started working and is heating the third season now. The heat pump cost was around 2,500€ at the end. I saved more money that year that I could earn in that time.
1,5 kw per hour, means that with 1.098 kw per month using air conditioning for exemple you can heat any house you want. I have seen many comparisons like this one, like heating with a hair dryer. If a hair dryer takes 2 kw it means that in a month it will theoretically consume 1464 kw. Huge. One can buy a high efficiency air conditioning unit from the latest generation and it will be more effective, without all the improvisations. But in the end a house consumption will depend on it's insulation and how much heat you recover from ventilation.
Hi Florin, I mean indeed to multiply the 1,5 kW with the Coefficient of Performance (COP) of a heat pump to arrive at 4,5, which is the steady state heat loss of a normal house (with decent insulation). I am not at a COP of 3, even. That is because the system for taking heat from the condensor and evaporator has to be improved. The point of all this effort is that I want to integrate heat pump with the water storage so that I can store it in sunny hours or other good conditions (like cheap grid energy in the night) so that I can give a boost when I want to. For example to give 20 kW when I come into a cold house. Or hot house, because this system is for summer and winter. The current problems with grid capacity really asks Demand Side Management (DSM) also from us households.
Sounds great! Keep up the good work
Thanks Mr Bosch! Will do!
Well done, Budding new inventor, Good idea if you have a swimming pool in the winter time
Dear Janet, I never will have a swimming pool 🙂 but a swimming pool heat pump : yesss! I see it as an air to water heat pump and that has many applications.
Yo man! That's the way to go. Dream, invent , be brave, do something=create, be proud, improve, repeat😂😮😅
Hi Danijel, that's right, I only regret that I didn't start earlier! Instead of waiting others to tell me what I had to do...
Nice experiment. I have rebuild my 250m2 house and before the rebuild created a lot of excelsheets with how my house should become starting with the basis that i only want an ventilation heat pump at 5Kw. The result is that now I am all electric and use 9000 kWh per year on electricity. Heating, Cooking, lighting everything. That boils down to an average of 1 kW per hour.
Hi RetakenRoots (I suppose that means that you turned to a living style closer to nature?). That is a great accomplishment. By the way, you can say 1 kWh per hour or just average 1 kW. For such a house not bad at all. I don't know in what climate you live and that will determine if you need more energy in winter or also need cooling in summer. Such electrification means that you can focus on getting as much as possible nature electricity.
I live in the Netherlands so a moderate climate. The heat pump turns off in the beginning of april and turns on again at the end of October. The key is insulation insulation and insulation. In the three months of winter I use 50% of my total energy. I do not have solar as my energy needs are low when the sun shines and high when it does not. Very counter intuitive but that seems to be the case with my house now.
I lived in the Netherlands, too, during the first half of my life. Insulation is a good point. Maybe it should come also into my channel. For now I am more fascinated with active components and less specialised in parts of the building.
Fare questi esperimenti e ottenere dei risultati e’ spettacolare
Grazie Massimo! Bello il tuo playlist sui viaggi, sono stato per lavoro a Budapest e ora vedo quanto ho perso.
Se hai domande o idee per fare altri video sull'energia, lo puoi mettere qui. Oppure venire nel gruppo Facebook in italiano, facebook.com/groups/1307085856581981/
Buon anno!
Goed bezig, man !
Dank je wel Jeroen!
very clever.
Thank you Stripa, life on the Philippines must be interesting with so many islands that must have energy! I saw your presentation video of opening a coconut and remembered the 40 days I worked on Mauritius, where they have also a coco industry, especially on some smaller islands.
Thank you , for this video 😮 I will be trying it .😊
You are welcome Erco, let me know how it goes. Actually would like to ask if it would be appreciated to launch a Q&A session now and then.
You should really figure out why that one evaporator is freezing, whether low on charge or the metering device is restricted. Great idea though, especially from an efficiency standpoint.
Thank you Snake8, I will analyse it but the watet temp in the big tank was 5 degrees the following day and then you really need much water to keep the evaporator above zero. See my answer above to Mark, about the rainwater reservoir. Another is to heat the water with spirals in the ground as I see in many youtube videos.
What about adding solar evacuated tubes and waterbased firewood oven?
Yes Kay, very useful to add other heat sources to the heat sources. Also because you mention higher temperature sources that can "finish" the work of the heat pump that heats up to 45 degrees C.
Many existing standard air conditioning units have COP ratings of 3+ (the one I'm getting has a COP of 4) and can be bought/installed for £1000. Simple, standalone and compact. It's all well and good building a DIY version but heat pumps have been engineered 'to perfection' by manufacturers with lots of experience and the funds to deliver a finished product. In my case, if I fitted a solar PV system that could reliably deliver ~500W I'd have 'free' heating but (a) my location precludes such efficient solar operation and (b) the cost would 'never' be recouped. As for any other altruistic reasons for doing it I have many, many reservations about the so-called threats posed.
The problem is that water to water heat pumps are difficult to find and cost much. They are very useful for water based systems like central heating and heat storage. This latter feature is difficult to find on the market.
@@nnvasen-good-energy Aircon units are air-to-air heating and still have COP values exceeding 4 and a basic unit can heat 40m^3 for well under $1000. We're talking 250W input here - and achieved without complication of design, build or install. Much as I admire the work you've put in to your system - if only to show the processes of heat movement involved - it's still below current manufacturing quality/standards and not really a system that anyone but a dedicated tinkerer could achieve.
Hi Kell, I agree that it is a challenge to realise this all and I put a Difficulty Grade of 80%. Next year spring if we are in that house again, I will simplify it.
My main point to do this complicated project is:
- I see that there are no "cogeneration" plants where cold and heat are used at the same time, and it seems so rational to me to do so. At least in summer, it is easy to find an application for both. Double efficiency.
- The water to water heat pump together with the water tanks gives better control of the temperature at the evaporator and condenser and makes compatibility with the water based home heating system intrinsic.
- I am frustrated with the price difference between feed in (fotovoltaic) and purchase of electricity. We have 15 kWh of Lithium but that is full at noon (if we don't have guests in the holiday home) and then we can store it in the dirt cheap double tank of 2x12 kWh.
There are a lot of points to improve and I invite you to watch the video after this one and then the video of next Saturday, where I go into detail.
@@nnvasen-good-energy Always happy to watch your efforts and progress. Looking forward to the next one.
*Due to the extreme drop in prices for solar panels green electricity can now be generated for only 3 to 8 cent/kWh!*
Solar batteries are now also worthwhile.
However, the extreme drop in prices is sure to continue in the coming years. You should therefore wait another 1-3 years.
I don't wait so long 😀! I find them already today cheap enough to integrate them into projects. Even to cover our roof terraces in Sicily with cane or even textile against the sun is nearly as expensive as with current PV prices.
It all depends on the heat demand of your house. If it's only 1.5kW at design temperature your house is either perfectly insulated, tiny or you're living in a warm climate zone (or a combination of the before mentioned). In that case I doubt that all the effort of your installation is necessary. Besides, storing energy in a water tank is not efficient AND not effective. One cubic meter (1.000Liter) provides about 10kWh heat. Even when perfectly insulated and stored inside it doesn't get you far in winter. A 10kWh battery stores an equivalent of 20-30kWh heat (powering your heat pump at COP between 2.3), can also be used to power your home, and has less standy by losses. So I don't critisize your enthusiasm or creativity but I doubt the effect in real life situations and the efficiency . With infinite effort you can achieve everything.
Hi Michael, thanks for the comments, they contain good information. Indeed long time storage is not possible without much more water and insulation. For short term it is very good though, and cheap. The advantage of short term storage is the wild variation in demand AND supply of (renewable) energy. And you can benefit from low cost electricity that will certainly come in the future as soon as we all discover that we have to create more flexibility in the demand supply problem.
my ground source heat pump uses from 500 to 2000W (20 to 90Hz) delivering 1,5 to 6kW with a COP averaging at 4,5.
That is very good, a constant temperature source, I had it in my years in Switzerland.
Great experiment but he would get a better result from a Chinese Diesel heater and actually be warm in the winter
I can see your point, this is just another way (compatible with renewables) and a way to store energy with less investment.
Kudos for the idea, sir, thanks for sharing! I wonder if I could put my fridge radiator into water to heat it. Despite the climate change scam being proclaimed all around, the power efficiency you nailed meant much more for me, personally speaking.
Have you considered using a warm floor system instead of radiators? By the rules of installation the temperature inside it should not exceed 25°C, thus your system would work twice more effecient, I guess. On the other hand, improving the radiators length /width could eliminate the fans usage, couldn't it?
Good luck with your goals!
Hi Alexander, you are welcome and thank you for your good wishes!
You can put the fridge radiator into water (like I do in my project of the Thermal Energy Storage (TES), in video 71, but it is big for a fridge.
You are right that a warm floor is better, considering the low temperature. For a new house, where you have the option to choose for a warm floor it is ideal. The low Delta T between the floor and freezing temperature even allow to use latent heat of ice and get about 92 kWh from 1 m³ of water.
Larger radiators will also do the job and allow a lower temperature, avoiding fans if very big, but that is a lot of costs.
Interesting i was thinking of an even smaller and simpler thing have the excess energy or off peak energy being fed into an element in a large water barrel for a single small room.
Even smaller? That will be a dehumidifier. I like them, too, for example for air change preheating. See ruclips.net/video/yanpHYSIcd8/видео.html, with time stamp already.
great
Thank you Josef!
Very good system are we have a problem about suites, and apartments and i have the solution for this problem, the next to weeks come my system, S.U.E.S Smart Universal Energy System🎉🎉
Thank you for your good work❤❤
Thank you WarumNicht, I see you have an incredible amount of videos, and 5 miljoen views. Is there one about the SUES?
Ferry interesting, i have a pond of 50.000 liters that i wanted tou dump with soil.
Then i got the idea of making a warm water cel of it.
This video is verry interesting, i have sort of the same ideas.
Doing the same is not making progress!
Hi Roelof, are also Dutch? A good idea to use the pond for energy. You can also fill it up with a long tube in spirals and then fill it up with earth if you want, that is also an energy storage for a heat pump, or you can fill it up with water, as you say!
@nnvasen-good-energy ik ben Nederlander inderdaad.
COP of 2.2 is not very good compared with what you see from other systems.
Is that because it runs at night during winter.
Hi Mark, that is one of the reasons. The main thing is that this is my first working prototype and there are at least 10 point to improve. The strong point is that the 2x1000 litres are a great stabiliser for the operation conditions and there are many options to improve if you work with water and not air. For example we have a big underground rainwater pit wit 70 m3 and if I use it to keep the evaporator at 16 degrees C then I have paradise.
@@nnvasen-good-energy Great work! I am excited to see the improvements and lessons learned.
Perfetto
Grazie Iwan, stai anche in Italia?
Purtroppo adesso no, ma ho vissuto e lavorato lì per un po', sono rimasti dei bei ricordi. A Modena.
Well... this ins quite janky, inefficient and not very durable...
1st: with a little bit deeper knowlege in HVAC and refrigeration, you can build a water to water heat pump from regular AC parts that will rival comnercial ones.
- Maybe (maybe) recover the gas from the unit, take it apart and rebuild in a metal frame.
- Get a brazing kit or hydraulic fittings for the copper lines.
- Get a hvac gauge set,
- a pair of standard 1/4 and 5/16 npt charging ports with schradder valves.
- get a pair of copper brazed, stainless heat exchangers. 40-60 plates for your average small ac compressor.
- fluorinated gases are hard to get if not licensed in hvac but r290 is not on the list. But is better than all F gases. It has just the flamability isdue but a propper hvac unit shall not leak, ever, period.
- get aquinted with the refrigerant's pressure-temperature curves.
- ditch the reversing valve system and maybe have a variable/controllable expansion valve.
To keep it cheaper and simpler, but lower performance, regular capillary tube will do fine.
- keep away from rain water and plain water. Rain water is corrosive, plain water is probe to freezing.
- Circulate an aporopriate antifreeze mixture in the heat exchangers.
- use a secondary heat exchanger to pass heat energy from the antifreeze to your ibc tanks of water.
Run the antufreexe directly in your indoor radiators.
This way you get a single box with power in and four, safe and easy to manage, not pressurized antifreeze ports. And tge box can stay outside, with you runnung cheap hoses or pipes, with some insulation, unside the house.
An inverter-type compressor along a variable expansion valve can help modulate power and performance in accordance to outside/inside temperatures, demands/needs and even energy availability (like I run my heat pump on full blast when my batteries are full and it's still plenty daylight on or tune it way down just to compensate sone geat and let me burn less wood.)
I'm wondering if an automotive style AC/heat pump system would be easiest for an amateur? Am i correct that they go together with compression fittings? I've seen no-name Chinese 12/24v scroll compressors on eBay that i assume would work? I'd hope that a mechanic could charge it and adjust the TXV correctly for reasonable money?
@beetooex if you have access to a car graveyard. Otherwise, automotive parts are way pricier, proprietary and model dependent.
For the very beginner I highly recommend starting with a buttload of hvac theory.
Plenty of educational videos about it on youtube!
Thank you for the detailed info! I indeed bought a hvac gauge set and a vacuum pump and next year when I am there I might use them, I've also such a heat exchanger as you say, still waiting to be utilised. I got the app to calculate the curves of different refrigerants, but don't want to push to much outside the skill level of the big part of the audience.
I see that you are miles ahead. I am aware of the advantage of inverter heat pumps. Will develop my skills in this area and present it in some simple way on this channel. Maybe I should start to assemble units and selling on internet in order to help my audience.
Anyone who likes this idea? A kind of IKEA with ready components to make useful things that are not on the market.
Hi Beetooex, I asked in a car workshop about these systems. In usual cars they need an external motor because they are driven in the car by a belt. In EVs they are indeed stand alone and have this electric compressor incorporated, but you need high DC voltage for that. Also because there is quite some power in these systems, even if the car is much smaller than your house.
An alternative are the camper AC system that go on 12 Volt of a battery. That can be fun to play with.
@@nnvasen-good-energy We have learnt the same things! I was thinking of the camper AC systems. I have found the manufacturer and specifications of the electric scroll compressor they use. They are available in 12v, 24v & 48v DC and are variable speed by PWM control. Maybe this means they are as efficient as a 230v inverter compressor? I don't have the knowledge of how to build a controller but I think someone clever could use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi for this purpose. There is no information on the coefficient of performance of these systems and I think it would only be worth trying if you absolutely needed a fully low voltage DC driven heat pump. The online discussions about them do say that the current draw (amps) is very high which could also be a problem.
Ich kann sogar mit 0,5 KW heizen , nur warm wird es nicht .
Aber mit einer Wärmepumpe erhalten Sie mit diesen 0,5 kW mindestens 1,5 kW Wärme!
Vous êtes arrivés à vous affranchir des lois de la physique ?
Pas encore! En fait, avec la pompe de chaleur je conte sur 4,5 kW de chaleur.
RULE #1: Turn English subtitles on at the start of this video and not halfway through.
I will figure out how to do it. A suggestion to go to advanced settings of RUclips and set English as preferred language doesn't work because the option is absent. Do you have an idea?
@@nnvasen-good-energy sorry, that was more of a note to myself, I was being silly as in I should have turned the subs on earlier. Your video was excellent and I enjoyed it.
BS you can convert cheap A/C to work as a heat pump and this can be a very cheap and effective way using cheap second hand Aircon unit, but you won't be able to get much from 1.5kW in any other than passive house.
Hi MM, I admit that 3 * 1,5 kW (which is the output of the heat pump if you give it 1,5 kW) is not much to get a cold house warm. In the video I say that it is for a steady state situation: to maintain a comfort temperature for an average house. Indeed, in an average Italian house and about 1800 degree-days as here in Florence, Italy, the standard wall mounted gas heater of the central heating with 22 kW will on average give 25% of its max heat. But coming in a cold house you need more. That is the reason that I have here big water tanks that can be charged with cheap night electricity and the release the heat quickly (power boost). I hope that helps!
What a joke..full people thinking they reinvented the wheel...happend when you quit school too early..
Well, I combine some ideas, actually. Don't see applications where the cold and warm side of a heat pump are both used.
So stupid . Heat pump it's cheaper You buy some cheap Samsung ehs mono and You will get higher cop with better control.
But where is fun in that? 😁
Also air to water has terrible cop in winter (-20°C)
@@MrMati489i I live in est part of Poland so winters are typicaly cold -5 and more . House 160m2, 4 people with heat recovery ventilation. Heat Pump Stiebiel Eltron HPA 08 using radiators heating season from October 2023 til April 2024 total power use including hot water 3500 kwh. I have 8kw solar panels house depends only on electric power . Power bil is less than 100$ per 6 months . All bought and installed by my self.
What do you mean cheaper? He made this out of basically scrap ACs.
Because it is waist of time money and effort. Also its useless and prone to failure.
Ein Untertitel, den man Lesen kann, wäre 1000-mal besser
Hallo Peter, das ist nicht so konkret und ich kann nichts anderes damit dann alles kontrolieren, was ich in der Regel auch mache (nach automatischen Übersetzung). Nur wird das manchmal ein bisschen viel Arbeit mit 7 Sprachen. Normalerweise mache ich die Englischen Untertitel mit wirklich viel Aufmerksamkeit und dann stimmt es sehr gut in den anderen Sprachen.
Wo genau war das Problem?