UPDATE: Thanks to the community I now learned that you can disable the deadzone and turn the light grey slew-mini stick into a 5 way hat through the SimAppPro software, and it keeps working even if you are not running it afterwards. Thanks for the help! Now I really don't have much against this stick :)
Hi RF... I just got the F-16EX and it is amazing! I had the same issue and found that if you edit line "_winwing.interval=..." in the "wwtExport" to an interval of "0.1" the FPS is back to normal.
The hand brake notion is interesting as several types - particularly well known being the Spitfire - employed that scheme. I encountered it flying a Yak 52 which also used compressed air as the Spit did. Just grab the handle on the stick to apply brakes which were also applied differentially based on the position of the rudder bar. Very elegant!
The trigger paddle is useful for many things. It can be a safety/master arm for the actual trigger, brake, or separate cannon selector and trigger (think Ka-50).
Okay, I finally got the fourth piece of my system this morning (the stick grip) and got to try it out. The system isn't perfect, but I gotta say, this stick is absolutely amazing! The first plane I flew was the L-39ZA in DCS. I did this because since 2007 until my recent retirement, I was a maintenance tech specializing in avionics at a place that specializes in L-39 maintenance and refurbishment. I have flown in an L-39 many, many times and have some stick time in this aircraft. Even though the Winwing stick is not FFB which would be appropriate since the L-39 is all manual control surfaces (no hydraulics), it still felt spot on. There is absolutely no slop in the stick, once it is calibrated, the stick returns to the exact same position every time. And the resistance increases proportionally as you move away from center. It just feels right. Can't say enough good about it. I like the way all the hats and most of the buttons feel and it seems to be ergonomically sound. I got the F-16 grip cuz it has one more hat than the F-18 grip. I also ordered the add-on module for the rumble motor although I haven't received it yet. I got that because the stock F-16 stick doesn't have an X/Y axis which I use a lot for strafing in space sims. Anyway, if I had to say a negative about the stick and base, it would be the way the second stage of the trigger feels. Instead of a switch clicking, it feels more like a cam overcoming a spring or something. It just feels weird to me, but really not much of an issue. I also love the throttle and base. I will be adding the finger lift kit for afterburner and cut off, however I have a bit more dislikes on that. To me, the arrangement of the knobs and switches feels kind of haphazard. Like, we have a couple switches here but we need one more so lets stick it in here between these knobs. Also, and this is just personal preference, all of the knobs and switches are pre-labeled to mostly FA-18 nomenclature. Now, I love the DCS Hornet and I fly it frequently. But I fly many other aircraft and spacecraft as well. I would have preferred more generic labels on the thing. I have also noticed that the hat switches are a good deal stiffer on the throttle than they are on the stick. Again, not much of an issue. Overall so far I would probably give it a 9 out of 10.
Personally for me the suction cups on my stick works likes God glue, no matter where I push the stick even fully to the right with max force for 1 min, it didnt even slip once. At one point I tried moving my base instead I moved my entire desk
The brake lever axis is SO much easier taxiing the Spitfire than my beloved Warthog, which will be my daughter's hand me down when she's old enough :) Re the trigger paddle lever, it's really nice as a safety lever for the MiG15 and others that have a safety instead of a master arm switch. I have a TM Warthog so the upgrade was a luxury, but it is so nice. I only used the software to upgrade firmware then uninstalled it.
I got mine 4 weeks ago and i really love the stick even though there are some downsides. Had a Cougar about 20 years ago but when i started again 2 years ago i went with Virpil. Even though they make overall great products, some the of their hats are really terrible. I still have missclicks on my throttle and had many on the mongoose-50 stick. I have no complaints about the Winwing hats but Virpil is clearly better on the axis side. I turned the deadzone in the software to 0 but still have way more center play than with the Virpil WarBRD base. Also the paddle lever seems to have different resistances throughout its way. The trigger guard axis seems to work fine on the other hand. If you got size 10 hands like me or even bigger you probably might find the stick rather small and it will take you a while to get your thumb from the cms hat to the top without colliding with the add-on hats on the left. But afterall, as mentioned before it's a great stick and i love the hats and buttons. I just wish i could put it on my Virpil base.
That you are flight simming on a laptop blows my mind. The FPS drop you have from Winwing is likely due to it updating too frequently. You can increase the interval (slower updates) to recoup some performance while maintaining some functionality. One risk of increasing the interval is that some of the rotary control syncing breaks, but you don't have one of those so you're probably OK for now.
@@deividdi5779 I’m super curious too. Not sure, but I haven’t tested in a while. I disabled a lot of DCS plugins a while ago because they were also killing my performance in terms of 1% lows so I run DCS very clean now. I’ve only googled searched it and it seems no one is complaining.
Had my T1600m for 4 years, great HOTAS ( stick could do with 1 more hat switch) ( throttle could do with a better slew) Looking to swap to a F15EX orion 2 + F16EX stick
What solid review. I dig that narrative style and info about the stick. The vibration control that's a bit of a bummer. I hope the user interface is improve. (Is that a German keyboard layout?)
Most of these aren't buttons are analog sticks which are useless for most things also the hats are not centered meaning they don't go up and down they go up to the left and down to the right they are poorly placed. Had mine for about for months now already broke one spring and had to order it from a machine shop
I'm with you 100%. I should never have bought this thing because they are never going to produce the z-axis adapter. It's been out of stock for a year and I got ripped off because I cannot use pedals so I need the z-axis twist to fly my helicopter so I'm screwed by wing wing and I'll never buy from them again. Why do they have something on their website that they're never going to sell again or produce. They have it on there to make you think oh it's okay you can get the z-axis in the future. NOT
Well, at 12:42 you are talking about how the desktop model kind of obscures the laptop screen. I notice you have a backlit keyboard (albiet with some strange characters) , and you mentioned needing to fit this stuff into a backpack. Have you considered using a cheap native 1080p projector? Then you could enjoy the benifit of a larger screen.
I also came off the TM 16000M. Can't say it was as good as you said, but I'm glad you liked this one. I went with the baseline rather than with the EX kit, should arrive in a few weeks. Wish I could've nabbed the F/A-18 but the price + shipping wasn't quite up my alley, seems like switching up with the EX kit later on might be the better way to do it anyway, brings it kinda closer to a Russian style while still being a western baseline with more buttons available than the F/A-18.
Hello Reflected, Thank you for the video. I upgraded from t.16000m to Virpil (can not compare with WinWing but I think it is similar). I am very happy with the upgrade but even with t.16000m it is possible to bind everything necessary when you use modifires. I used 2 buttons (btn 2 and btn 3) as modifires on throttle = suddenly 3 hats on the stick :-) And I totaly aggree that for its price there is no match for t.16000m
Hi reflected, how you doing? Getting mine this week. any chance your vibration profile can be shared? also did the community create any other one? thanks, fly high, fly safe
I don’t use the vibration function. I tried making some profiles but sometimes the vibratiom would turn on and get stuck forever. So I just disabled it.
This might have already been suggested, but maybe you can simplify the vibration setup by using the in game dcs force feedback settings. i dodnt know if this would work, but it seems worth a try
Have you talked to Winwing techs about it? (the vibration issue) I am interested in buying that stick and your video was very informative, thanks! Am hoping I might not have to run the SimmApp Pro software, but we'll see.
Awesome your new stick!! Full of buttons hahaha By the way, I use the T16000M FCS stick + throttle + rudder pedals and I'm happy with the kit.... I can bind everything that's needed for F-16, F-18, F-14 and all others planes.
My only real complaint is that the vibration motor only works with the add on buttons installed which I don’t use. The NWS/MSL Step is also wrong, but that I care less about because it’s more useful
I'm pretty sure the rumble kit just contains a logic board that allows control over the rumble motor contained in the stick. The motor is still present when it isn't attached but there's nothing to control it without the add on
Possibly good news: RhinoFFB is working to add Winwing compatibility... so FFB might come back. I still used the MSFFB2 EXTENSIVELY, but imho it doesn't compare against even cheap Hotas (like the X52pro), so I too didn't have any force-feedback for the longest time. Here's to hope!
Got a Warthog Hotas and a Sidewinder FFB 2, the Warthog stick is collecting dust and only use the Sidewinder, since I fly helicopters almost exclusively. It's pretty amazing.
@@ttenor12 I've used the Sidewinder2 to death... for years and years. It still works. Quite amazing tbh. (even a "normal", non ffb joystick would've given up already)
@@stoned_kakapo8736 No; I'm not sure I ever will. FFB - unfortunately - in this day and age is just too niche and not supported by most products (exception's are racing sims).
I bought the Orion 2 F-18 HOTAS set, and love it so much I may get the F-16 set as well. Though right now I'm only flying the Hornet, as I'm still learning my way around DCS. Winwing has truly impressed me with the quality of their gear. I hope they stick around for a long time.
I'd like to riposte for 'best cheap joystick' being - from direct experience ! - the TW Cobra HOTAS, which gives you all the hats and buttons to make the F-16 and F-18 possible, for less money than the TM. Which is why I bought it - and it is better than the TM for giving ease of use in DCS. But the WinWing is really good on first look.
Thank you Reflected for review. have you tried or have knowledge about possibility of using standard Microsoft DirectX API with the vibration motor? Does it come with suport for it or it is not compatible and not detected by DCS? (I mean the the API through the Microsoft Force Feedback Joystick are handled).
Hey @ReflectedSimulations can you confirm if you are now able to use the vibration without the FPS drop? Based on my research, it looks like WinWing fixed this issue with their 1.7.52 software update.
How comfortable is it for tabletop-use? I don't have the space to use a desk mount so I'm concerned that my arm will be in stuck in uncomfortable positions just to hold on to the stick due to how tall it looks. I'm currently using the VKB Gladiator Evo so this looks like it's substantially taller than the VKB.
I am with you 100% I bought one thinking that's okay they'll restock the Z axis adapter but that was a year ago and I realized that we're just being screwed by wing wing making you think you can get a z-axis Twist but it's never going to happen. I am with you I cannot use pedals so I'm screwed and can never fly my Apache helicopter
@@ReflectedSimulations sorry to press but is that the MFSSB version or do you have the $549 combo. Just not clear when I’m looking at the website. Not sure I am completely clear on the shaker in the stick vs the MFSSB add on for the base.
@@jasonburrus8146 The shaker is in that extension piece on the left, and adds $50 to the cost. It's just a vibration motor like your gamepad. The MFSSB is completely separate, and is attached inside the base.
Quick question: The hat switch in place of the missile step button seen to soft versus the thumb hat switch in the unit I recived, is this the case with your unit?
How easy is it to carry that in a bag and travel with it? I do like seeing a review from someone who travels a lot instead of someone with a $10k+ simpit, though.
Not as difficult as you’d think. Just remove the stick from the base and the base plate too. I kept the foam box of the grip and I place it in there to protect it. It usually goes into my backpack - and my WT throttle in the luggage. I wonder what the airport security thinks :D
@@ReflectedSimulations I keep coming to this review. I am tired of my X56... Modded with springs and RC shocks for dampers. The X-56 plastic grip is just a creaking mess. For the flightstick gimble have you tried Nyogel to improve the damping?
Hey, I hope that someone can help me with my problem but everytime i try to fill out the receipt it doesn't recognise my home adress or any adress in my coutry (Germany) please help, because i would really like to buy the new orion 2. thanks!
The 2 switches on the left of the joystick...is that an add on? Can that be added to the Winwing F-16 EX Viper which only has 4 switches? Is that what they call the Shaker add on?
@@ReflectedSimulations Thanks I left them a message 2 days ago but no reply. Hmm Virpil will answer in less than 2 hours if you sent it at their time. Too bad they are more expensive but they do have a 20 percent off till the end of July.
I am trying to order one, but I've been unable to add my address to my account. I get some sort of error with my "detailed address". (ValidMultiUnit:The address does not include a validated suite or unit number). Any help would be appreciated. Also, I can't seem to get anyone to answer a service ticket.
@@ReflectedSimulations That's ok, I thought maybe you or one of your followers might have some advice on how to get my address saved or perhaps had some of the same issues.
@@ReflectedSimulations Thanks! Thinking between Virpil and WinWing right now. I've chosen WinWing for my throttle (the F16 throttle) but I'm unsure about my stick! Thank you very much again for the information.
Don't fall for their bulshit. That Z axis adapter has been out of stock for over a year on winWings website. This thing is never going to be produced again and they leave it on there to fool people into buying their joystick thinking they can get a z-axis in the future but they know they don't have one they know they're never going to get one so don't buy from this company people because I fell for that trap and I now have a joystick that is useless for any helicopter
Only issue i have with this is that Winwing just HAS to add extra shit to their products. Talking about the fact that they replaced the NWS button with a hat switch.. also they don't sell an adapter for the TM Warthog anymore, so that's just a thing now.
I'm not going to talk about the base, but the GRIP of the winwing in every way LOOKS cheaper than the Thrustmaster grip... The Thrustmaster grip looks and feels WAY more high quality. The buttons are STIFF, while in yours they seem to be moving very easily as you slide your fingers over..The screws on the winwing are not hidden properly like at 9:35 , the seams on the top of the stick are also very visible...
Have you handled one in person? Not sure why it LOOKS cheaper to you, as I said, it's really well built, good quality, heavy and sturdy. The buttons actually feel better and more 'accurate' than on my old TM Warthog HOTAS. The seam/ screws on the top belongs to the part that's removable if you want a 100% accurate F-16 stick without the extension.
Don't be disappointed, the T16000m is amazing for that price. As others recommended below, you can use modifier buttons to turn that one hat switch into several.
Because in real life you’re not watching things through a small screen and therefore you don’t need buttons for stuff like zoom for example…I use it for flight simming, not as a museum piece.
@@ReflectedSimulations with VR, cockpit setups, suspension of reality and realistic flight ops are my many sim enthusiasts goal. The point of replica controls are just that. Replication of reality. Your high quality campaigns and missions set the goal of realism in how they work. Short cutting controls is like cheating IMHO. But if flying through a laptop is your preferred method, then I see your point.
@@Thorntail71 yeah unfortunately I don’t have VR so I need extra buttons :/ Also, I fly many different airplanes so what is an accurate replica of one, may be totally off for another.
@@ReflectedSimulations The very reason I am considering changing my Warthog F-16 flightstick to the Winwing F-16EX. My AH-64D really needs this stick to function maximally as Co-pilot from the extra buttons and axis controls. When you have other aircraft that have different control configurations, you have great options to map your controls without having to use the Shift/modifier function like I presently do with my fightstick. DCS is a sandbox of great combat aircraft. HOTAS specifically designed for one jet is limiting to a considerable extent for me.
@@Thorntail71 Even in VR you still need extra buttons for game stuff. You need a mouse with left, right clicks, scroll up/down to operate buttons. You need zoom, as you're using a display with resolution lower than real life, blurriness, and the rendering engine in DCS is wonky. You might need binds for kneeboards etc. You communicate with AI using menus and radio shortcuts. And most people will use it to fly other aircraft too, so it's not going to be an exact replica in most cases anyway. The add-on kit is a must IMHO, otherwise you'll be reaching for mouse and keyboard, hardly more realistic.
UPDATE: Thanks to the community I now learned that you can disable the deadzone and turn the light grey slew-mini stick into a 5 way hat through the SimAppPro software, and it keeps working even if you are not running it afterwards. Thanks for the help! Now I really don't have much against this stick :)
Hi RF... I just got the F-16EX and it is amazing! I had the same issue and found that if you edit line "_winwing.interval=..." in the "wwtExport" to an interval of "0.1" the FPS is back to normal.
@@Shepski15 this; I'd think it doesn't need to update the default 0.03 seconds...
how to eliminate dead zone
Would you mind sharing how to disable the deadzone?
hey man, how did you manage to disable the deadzone?
The hand brake notion is interesting as several types - particularly well known being the Spitfire - employed that scheme. I encountered it flying a Yak 52 which also used compressed air as the Spit did. Just grab the handle on the stick to apply brakes which were also applied differentially based on the position of the rudder bar. Very elegant!
The trigger paddle is useful for many things. It can be a safety/master arm for the actual trigger, brake, or separate cannon selector and trigger (think Ka-50).
Okay, I finally got the fourth piece of my system this morning (the stick grip) and got to try it out. The system isn't perfect, but I gotta say, this stick is absolutely amazing! The first plane I flew was the L-39ZA in DCS. I did this because since 2007 until my recent retirement, I was a maintenance tech specializing in avionics at a place that specializes in L-39 maintenance and refurbishment. I have flown in an L-39 many, many times and have some stick time in this aircraft. Even though the Winwing stick is not FFB which would be appropriate since the L-39 is all manual control surfaces (no hydraulics), it still felt spot on. There is absolutely no slop in the stick, once it is calibrated, the stick returns to the exact same position every time. And the resistance increases proportionally as you move away from center. It just feels right. Can't say enough good about it. I like the way all the hats and most of the buttons feel and it seems to be ergonomically sound. I got the F-16 grip cuz it has one more hat than the F-18 grip. I also ordered the add-on module for the rumble motor although I haven't received it yet. I got that because the stock F-16 stick doesn't have an X/Y axis which I use a lot for strafing in space sims. Anyway, if I had to say a negative about the stick and base, it would be the way the second stage of the trigger feels. Instead of a switch clicking, it feels more like a cam overcoming a spring or something. It just feels weird to me, but really not much of an issue.
I also love the throttle and base. I will be adding the finger lift kit for afterburner and cut off, however I have a bit more dislikes on that. To me, the arrangement of the knobs and switches feels kind of haphazard. Like, we have a couple switches here but we need one more so lets stick it in here between these knobs. Also, and this is just personal preference, all of the knobs and switches are pre-labeled to mostly FA-18 nomenclature. Now, I love the DCS Hornet and I fly it frequently. But I fly many other aircraft and spacecraft as well. I would have preferred more generic labels on the thing. I have also noticed that the hat switches are a good deal stiffer on the throttle than they are on the stick. Again, not much of an issue. Overall so far I would probably give it a 9 out of 10.
Personally for me the suction cups on my stick works likes God glue, no matter where I push the stick even fully to the right with max force for 1 min, it didnt even slip once. At one point I tried moving my base instead I moved my entire desk
The brake lever axis is SO much easier taxiing the Spitfire than my beloved Warthog, which will be my daughter's hand me down when she's old enough :)
Re the trigger paddle lever, it's really nice as a safety lever for the MiG15 and others that have a safety instead of a master arm switch.
I have a TM Warthog so the upgrade was a luxury, but it is so nice. I only used the software to upgrade firmware then uninstalled it.
I got mine 4 weeks ago and i really love the stick even though there are some downsides. Had a Cougar about 20 years ago but when i started again 2 years ago i went with Virpil. Even though they make overall great products, some the of their hats are really terrible. I still have missclicks on my throttle and had many on the mongoose-50 stick. I have no complaints about the Winwing hats but Virpil is clearly better on the axis side. I turned the deadzone in the software to 0 but still have way more center play than with the Virpil WarBRD base. Also the paddle lever seems to have different resistances throughout its way. The trigger guard axis seems to work fine on the other hand.
If you got size 10 hands like me or even bigger you probably might find the stick rather small and it will take you a while to get your thumb from the cms hat to the top without colliding with the add-on hats on the left.
But afterall, as mentioned before it's a great stick and i love the hats and buttons. I just wish i could put it on my Virpil base.
That you are flight simming on a laptop blows my mind.
The FPS drop you have from Winwing is likely due to it updating too frequently. You can increase the interval (slower updates) to recoup some performance while maintaining some functionality. One risk of increasing the interval is that some of the rotary control syncing breaks, but you don't have one of those so you're probably OK for now.
Did they fixed this performance issue?
@@deividdi5779 I’m super curious too. Not sure, but I haven’t tested in a while. I disabled a lot of DCS plugins a while ago because they were also killing my performance in terms of 1% lows so I run DCS very clean now. I’ve only googled searched it and it seems no one is complaining.
I play on laptop and run about 60fps on almost maxed settings. Only cost me about £1350 all in! R9 5900HX, RX 6800M, 64GB RAM, dedicated 1TB NVMe SSD
Had my T1600m for 4 years, great HOTAS ( stick could do with 1 more hat switch) ( throttle could do with a better slew)
Looking to swap to a F15EX orion 2 + F16EX stick
Exactly same here!
Congratulations on your purchase. P.S. looking forward to your new campaign! Enjoy and safe flying..
getting ready to pull the trigger on this joystick top for my Libra base, been flying the A10 and F16
gonna buy this for sure, thanks for the review!
Glad I could help
What solid review. I dig that narrative style and info about the stick. The vibration control that's a bit of a bummer. I hope the user interface is improve.
(Is that a German keyboard layout?)
WinWing: "How many HOTAS buttons do you need?" Customers: "Yes."
Haha, yeah, that sentence alone would have sufficed as an honest review :D
This was borrowed from Grim Reaper’s review of the stick. Let’s give credit where it is due 😅
@@EbonySeraphim It's borrowed from RedKite's review not Grim Reaper
@@EbonySeraphim its from redkites vid, also imagine crediting GR for anything lol
Most of these aren't buttons are analog sticks which are useless for most things also the hats are not centered meaning they don't go up and down they go up to the left and down to the right they are poorly placed. Had mine for about for months now already broke one spring and had to order it from a machine shop
The twist axis add on is always out of stock.
This is the only reason I have not yet ordered this HOTAS setup. No twist is no buy.
I'm with you 100%. I should never have bought this thing because they are never going to produce the z-axis adapter. It's been out of stock for a year and I got ripped off because I cannot use pedals so I need the z-axis twist to fly my helicopter so I'm screwed by wing wing and I'll never buy from them again. Why do they have something on their website that they're never going to sell again or produce. They have it on there to make you think oh it's okay you can get the z-axis in the future. NOT
Well, at 12:42 you are talking about how the desktop model kind of obscures the laptop screen. I notice you have a backlit keyboard (albiet with some strange characters) , and you mentioned needing to fit this stuff into a backpack. Have you considered using a cheap native 1080p projector? Then you could enjoy the benifit of a larger screen.
I also came off the TM 16000M. Can't say it was as good as you said, but I'm glad you liked this one. I went with the baseline rather than with the EX kit, should arrive in a few weeks. Wish I could've nabbed the F/A-18 but the price + shipping wasn't quite up my alley, seems like switching up with the EX kit later on might be the better way to do it anyway, brings it kinda closer to a Russian style while still being a western baseline with more buttons available than the F/A-18.
I bought one yesterday. How long did the shipping take. I'm in the USA if you are too.
@@JPROP-vb7sv I'm in AUS, took about 15 days iirc, but yeah it might be different on your end
@HawkFire74 Thanks for the info brother.
They have finally opened up an USA store. About to order.
Hello Reflected,
Thank you for the video. I upgraded from t.16000m to Virpil (can not compare with WinWing but I think it is similar). I am very happy with the upgrade but even with t.16000m it is possible to bind everything necessary when you use modifires. I used 2 buttons (btn 2 and btn 3) as modifires on throttle = suddenly 3 hats on the stick :-)
And I totaly aggree that for its price there is no match for t.16000m
Thanks, that's a great idea! I'm not going back now, though :)
Did the same with my first joystick the thrustmaster t-flight.
Hi reflected, how you doing? Getting mine this week. any chance your vibration profile can be shared? also did the community create any other one? thanks, fly high, fly safe
I don’t use the vibration function. I tried making some profiles but sometimes the vibratiom would turn on and get stuck forever. So I just disabled it.
I want a hotas setup from them. Great review.
This might have already been suggested, but maybe you can simplify the vibration setup by using the in game dcs force feedback settings. i dodnt know if this would work, but it seems worth a try
Have you talked to Winwing techs about it? (the vibration issue) I am interested in buying that stick and your video was very informative, thanks! Am hoping I might not have to run the SimmApp Pro software, but we'll see.
Awesome your new stick!! Full of buttons hahaha
By the way, I use the T16000M FCS stick + throttle + rudder pedals and I'm happy with the kit.... I can bind everything that's needed for F-16, F-18, F-14 and all others planes.
It's a pretty good combo, I still use the rudders. But how do you manage the missing hat switches?
@@ReflectedSimulations I use a modifier button, so I can double the capacities of all hats and switches.
@@skywarp2180 that's a brilliant idea!
@Bald Man I know what you mean... that's why I address the buttons & axis used in emergency situations to the stick and the throttle.
My only real complaint is that the vibration motor only works with the add on buttons installed which I don’t use. The NWS/MSL Step is also wrong, but that I care less about because it’s more useful
I'm pretty sure the rumble kit just contains a logic board that allows control over the rumble motor contained in the stick. The motor is still present when it isn't attached but there's nothing to control it without the add on
@@oojiflip it really doesn’t need to be in there, and with the MFSSB, it can still ruble without it. It was a poor design on their part.
Possibly good news: RhinoFFB is working to add Winwing compatibility... so FFB might come back. I still used the MSFFB2 EXTENSIVELY, but imho it doesn't compare against even cheap Hotas (like the X52pro), so I too didn't have any force-feedback for the longest time.
Here's to hope!
Got a Warthog Hotas and a Sidewinder FFB 2, the Warthog stick is collecting dust and only use the Sidewinder, since I fly helicopters almost exclusively. It's pretty amazing.
@@ttenor12 I've used the Sidewinder2 to death... for years and years. It still works. Quite amazing tbh. (even a "normal", non ffb joystick would've given up already)
@@ytdlder oh yeah, these things are built like a tank.
@ytdlder have you gotten your rhino yet? I'm really curious to get this grip and have it work along with the rhino + telemetry app
@@stoned_kakapo8736 No; I'm not sure I ever will. FFB - unfortunately - in this day and age is just too niche and not supported by most products (exception's are racing sims).
I bought the Orion 2 F-18 HOTAS set, and love it so much I may get the F-16 set as well. Though right now I'm only flying the Hornet, as I'm still learning my way around DCS.
Winwing has truly impressed me with the quality of their gear. I hope they stick around for a long time.
Did you get it with the maverick package? F18 and F14
@@jaden4833 No. I bought it a few months ago, before the Orion 2 was even announced. But luckily, they upgraded all pre-orders to the newest throttle.
you are doing all your campaigns on a laptop ? respect
What's the LapTop brand and model? is still "powerful" enough for DCS? Nice video 😀
I'd like to riposte for 'best cheap joystick' being - from direct experience ! - the TW Cobra HOTAS, which gives you all the hats and buttons to make the F-16 and F-18 possible, for less money than the TM. Which is why I bought it - and it is better than the TM for giving ease of use in DCS. But the WinWing is really good on first look.
Nice, I haven't heard of it before but looks pretty cool.
Thank you Reflected for review. have you tried or have knowledge about possibility of using standard Microsoft DirectX API with the vibration motor?
Does it come with suport for it or it is not compatible and not detected by DCS? (I mean the the API through the Microsoft Force Feedback Joystick are handled).
A very good review.
Thank you
how has the stick done in the past 10 months? Anything broke? Problems?
Been working like a charm, knock on wood
Thanks for honest feedback
Great review!
Hey @ReflectedSimulations can you confirm if you are now able to use the vibration without the FPS drop?
Based on my research, it looks like WinWing fixed this issue with their 1.7.52 software update.
Yes confirmed
@@ReflectedSimulations sweet!!
How comfortable is it for tabletop-use? I don't have the space to use a desk mount so I'm concerned that my arm will be in stuck in uncomfortable positions just to hold on to the stick due to how tall it looks. I'm currently using the VKB Gladiator Evo so this looks like it's substantially taller than the VKB.
Not bad at all, I'd be more worried about it blocking your view. But it's comfortable. I don't have a mount either
Did you end up upgrading to this Winwing stick? I have a VKB as well, love it, but would like to try a metal cam stick.
Hey man I love the new Debden eagles campaing, hey did they ever fix the issue you were having withy the software slowing the game down?
Yes, a loong time ago
have physical issues and can't use pedals... when will WinWing EVER have z-axis adaptors back in stock? would love one, but have to have the twist.
I am with you 100% I bought one thinking that's okay they'll restock the Z axis adapter but that was a year ago and I realized that we're just being screwed by wing wing making you think you can get a z-axis Twist but it's never going to happen. I am with you I cannot use pedals so I'm screwed and can never fly my Apache helicopter
So, if you order the EX, does it come with a shaker and the add on buttons there on the left or is that an add on?
Yes, comes with both
@@ReflectedSimulations sorry to press but is that the MFSSB version or do you have the $549 combo. Just not clear when I’m looking at the website. Not sure I am completely clear on the shaker in the stick vs the MFSSB add on for the base.
@@jasonburrus8146 I don’t have any FFB, just a shaker
@@jasonburrus8146 The shaker is in that extension piece on the left, and adds $50 to the cost. It's just a vibration motor like your gamepad. The MFSSB is completely separate, and is attached inside the base.
By a 5-way HAT you mean 4 directions plus a press?
Yes, 4 directions + press
@@ReflectedSimulations ah, nice! Good review BTW
@@ilejovcevski79 thank you
@@ReflectedSimulations my pleasure, keep 'em comin'!
Quick question: The hat switch in place of the missile step button seen to soft versus the thumb hat switch in the unit I recived, is this the case with your unit?
No not really. They’re the same on mine
I like the built in Dead zone...
hello friends. Please ask a question, can this grip be placed on a vilpil mongoose base like the cm3. thank you
How easy is it to carry that in a bag and travel with it? I do like seeing a review from someone who travels a lot instead of someone with a $10k+ simpit, though.
Not as difficult as you’d think. Just remove the stick from the base and the base plate too. I kept the foam box of the grip and I place it in there to protect it. It usually goes into my backpack - and my WT throttle in the luggage. I wonder what the airport security thinks :D
Actually it’s easier to carry in a backpack than say a t16000m, which you cannot take apart.
@@ReflectedSimulations Thanks for the reply!
Just scored the F-16ex stick and HOTAS throttle. Smokes my Thrustmaster Warthog setup.
After having the stick for about 9 months, do you have anything else positive or negative to add about this stick?
No, it still works (knock on wood) and I still love it
@@ReflectedSimulations I keep coming to this review.
I am tired of my X56... Modded with springs and RC shocks for dampers. The X-56 plastic grip is just a creaking mess.
For the flightstick gimble have you tried Nyogel to improve the damping?
@@ysiadpir1423 no idea what it is man…sorry. Mine is 100% factory version
Do you have any experience with "Joypro" software for binding your stick etc.?
no, I never heard of it
Hey, I hope that someone can help me with my problem but everytime i try to fill out the receipt it doesn't recognise my home adress or any adress in my coutry (Germany) please help, because i would really like to buy the new orion 2. thanks!
Looks like you base is mounted wrong onto the base place, rotate the plate 180 degrees, then you will be good
yes, you're right! Doh! I turned it around and it's much more stable now! Thanks!
The 2 switches on the left of the joystick...is that an add on? Can that be added to the Winwing F-16 EX Viper which only has 4 switches? Is that what they call the Shaker add on?
This is the F-16EX. It’s an add on that can be removed easily. It’s not part of the real life F-16 stick but comes handy in simulators.
@@ReflectedSimulations Thanks, how does one get that add-on? I'd like to put it on the F-16 EX Viper. Can that be done?
@@dreaux88 I think it comes with it by default? You better ask their customer service to be sure
@@ReflectedSimulations Thanks I left them a message 2 days ago but no reply. Hmm Virpil will answer in less than 2 hours if you sent it at their time. Too bad they are more expensive but they do have a 20 percent off till the end of July.
@@dreaux88 You have to buy it separately if you didn't select the right option. It's an option that costs $50 extra.
Is it that much expensive to ship? I mean, I was ordering one and the shipping was 100+ usd.
I don't recall but it was pretty reasonable.
I was ready to order and they always say out of stock!!! Is there any other way to order...by phone???
It says out of stock but if you preorder on the website they get in touch with you as soon as they restock - it was 2-3 weeks for me.
links??
you should post links so we can shop for your setup
The nws button is inaccurate, thats the only complaint i have about it
Looks like the extra buttons and "lever" on the EX emulates a bit Russian aircraft.
Want.
how much was the Tax im Rupiah?
I ordered it to Hungary, and I think I didn't have to pay any taxes.
i took the orion2 full option and its realy great
Congrats!:)
@@ReflectedSimulations THANKS :)
I am trying to order one, but I've been unable to add my address to my account. I get some sort of error with my "detailed address". (ValidMultiUnit:The address does not include a validated suite or unit number). Any help would be appreciated. Also, I can't seem to get anyone to answer a service ticket.
Sorry, I'm not working for WinWing. They always replied to my questions within 12 hours on the support page.
@@ReflectedSimulations That's ok, I thought maybe you or one of your followers might have some advice on how to get my address saved or perhaps had some of the same issues.
@@michaelr5594 ah fair enough, I hope you'll manage to sort it out. It's a truly great joystick.
FYI, it is now working. Something on wwsimstore side was not working right, but it has been corrected.
@@michaelr5594 awesome, happy to hear!
Have you had any problems with it?
No, still loving it!
@@ReflectedSimulations Thanks! Thinking between Virpil and WinWing right now. I've chosen WinWing for my throttle (the F16 throttle) but I'm unsure about my stick! Thank you very much again for the information.
@@harksgaming7455 I have never tried a Virpil, but if I ever had to get any other hardware it would be a Winwing for sure based on my experience.
Is there a rudder twist function on this?
Nope, no twist.
@@ReflectedSimulations at that's a killer for me.
there's a z axis add on for this stick about 50 bucks i think. out of stock last time i checked
@@Ryan-iq5dr As I said above, the add on is always out of stock. This is the only reason I have not yet ordered this HOTAS setup. No twist is no buy.
Don't fall for their bulshit. That Z axis adapter has been out of stock for over a year on winWings website. This thing is never going to be produced again and they leave it on there to fool people into buying their joystick thinking they can get a z-axis in the future but they know they don't have one they know they're never going to get one so don't buy from this company people because I fell for that trap and I now have a joystick that is useless for any helicopter
Only issue i have with this is that Winwing just HAS to add extra shit to their products. Talking about the fact that they replaced the NWS button with a hat switch.. also they don't sell an adapter for the TM Warthog anymore, so that's just a thing now.
Do you HAVE to use the software or can I just plug it in and use DCS to map all the buttons?
No. Once you set things up you don’t need the software to be running.
Well I just broke my having a dogfight with a Su-27 I don't have a year with this 🙃
What kind of a review doesn't show how the gimbal moves, is it centered and things like that... that's a bad review
I'm not going to talk about the base, but the GRIP of the winwing in every way LOOKS cheaper than the Thrustmaster grip... The Thrustmaster grip looks and feels WAY more high quality. The buttons are STIFF, while in yours they seem to be moving very easily as you slide your fingers over..The screws on the winwing are not hidden properly like at 9:35 , the seams on the top of the stick are also very visible...
Have you handled one in person? Not sure why it LOOKS cheaper to you, as I said, it's really well built, good quality, heavy and sturdy. The buttons actually feel better and more 'accurate' than on my old TM Warthog HOTAS. The seam/ screws on the top belongs to the part that's removable if you want a 100% accurate F-16 stick without the extension.
I just ordered T16000m for my dcs f16 before watch this video :(
Don't be disappointed, the T16000m is amazing for that price. As others recommended below, you can use modifier buttons to turn that one hat switch into several.
Ever heard of VKB Gunfighter Ultimate?
why would you do that?? because the F16 control doesn't have that crap hanging on it.
Because in real life you’re not watching things through a small screen and therefore you don’t need buttons for stuff like zoom for example…I use it for flight simming, not as a museum piece.
@@ReflectedSimulations with VR, cockpit setups, suspension of reality and realistic flight ops are my many sim enthusiasts goal. The point of replica controls are just that. Replication of reality. Your high quality campaigns and missions set the goal of realism in how they work. Short cutting controls is like cheating IMHO. But if flying through a laptop is your preferred method, then I see your point.
@@Thorntail71 yeah unfortunately I don’t have VR so I need extra buttons :/ Also, I fly many different airplanes so what is an accurate replica of one, may be totally off for another.
@@ReflectedSimulations The very reason I am considering changing my Warthog F-16 flightstick to the Winwing F-16EX. My AH-64D really needs this stick to function maximally as Co-pilot from the extra buttons and axis controls. When you have other aircraft that have different control configurations, you have great options to map your controls without having to use the Shift/modifier function like I presently do with my fightstick. DCS is a sandbox of great combat aircraft. HOTAS specifically designed for one jet is limiting to a considerable extent for me.
@@Thorntail71 Even in VR you still need extra buttons for game stuff. You need a mouse with left, right clicks, scroll up/down to operate buttons. You need zoom, as you're using a display with resolution lower than real life, blurriness, and the rendering engine in DCS is wonky. You might need binds for kneeboards etc. You communicate with AI using menus and radio shortcuts. And most people will use it to fly other aircraft too, so it's not going to be an exact replica in most cases anyway. The add-on kit is a must IMHO, otherwise you'll be reaching for mouse and keyboard, hardly more realistic.
No man I am unemployed!!