I have K5 Pro too. But the audiophiles community said K9 Pro is an improvement in sound quality over K5 or K7. Going from Fiio e10K to K5 Pro I notice a huge improvement. Why K5 to K9 no improvement to sound quality?
Please review the all in one DAC/AMP Rosetechnics RT5000. I really need to know your honest and transparent opinion about this product. You are very capable of discerning truth from marketing gimmicks 😎
a very good dac amp with THX tech, but at 499 dollars we have hifiman ef400 with a 2x Himalaya R2R DAC and a huge 4.4 Watt on 32 ohm power output. i know that the ef400 have only analog connection and no bluetooth and digital imputs or outputs , but for sound quality and power has no rivals for that price.
So to summarize: The K9 Pro sounds as good and as bad as everything else. No point in buying it unless you need the other stuff it has. So why are we paying for other stuff anyway? 😂😂😂
I just can't believe you hear no difference between all those DACs. I have 4 DACs in my house, two of those with the exact same chip and specs (E30 & SMSL Sanskrit 10th MK2) and they all sound different (even if by a little bit). You are the only RUclips reviewer that claims there are no differences.
I too tried topping EX5 and L50+E50 combo which NTR claims to be sounding the same but damn the L50+E50 adds so much to the bass (not the punchy sub bass, more to the bass that adds to the warmth) area compared to the EX5. Perhaps there is a problem with the testing method he uses? While I don't always agree with what NTR says I still appreciate his reviews and his no shilling style. So far I've only see him shill for the Ollo Audio S4X which I think deserved to be shilled.
By the way what are headphone are you using? I find that some headphones shows the sound difference between DACs more apparent than others. The transparent neutral ones will usually be able to show the sound coloration that the DACs provided more than the more colored headphones, at least from my experience.
@CraciunAlexandruGh I’m not the only one who says that. Unfortunately, nobody else on YT does actual A/B tests. Those who claim to hear differences never reveal their methodology, and when pressed for clarification typically say that the differences were so vast that it was apparent immediately upon changing components-a claim that is not supported by the data manufacturers provide or by A/B testing if it is ever done. Put your gear in an A/B rig-it’ll cost you less than $25 for components-then do real comparisons.
Well…if you gave a more exact explanation of your setup that would be helpful. If you’ve get these dacs set with speakers in different rooms, then you’re not making a strong point at all. If you just move from one Dac to another with a headphone you’re again not making a good argument. Plugging gear in and out is how people say they do comparisons but that’s not good enough, especially if you’re not actually doing a test
You referenced Argons in other video, and I see them making appearance here as well. Can you do a review on them? They seem to have a small, but zealous following. Thanks.
About 2 mins devoted to talking about marketing promises in a 25 min video. And you CAN skip using the time stamps. Why do you audiophiles pretend to not care about marketing when you literally wouldn’t be as forgiving for anything else you’re about to buy? 🙄
@@NoThemeReviews Though I forgot to add that at that price they should be able to drive them well considering how some cheaper Topping amps that you reviewed in the past has no problem driving them.
The K7 is a no brainer. It's the little brother with all the smart genes of a family of geniuses except it's just small in stature. A quarter of the price, 80% of the way.
I was drinking a vodka martini in your honor as this video started. I just finished cleaning it off the wall thanks to hearing the price. :) Okay, so not really. But still, wow!!!! I think I'll work on keeping my bar stocked and saving money for headphones instead.
Had one of the first AKM Version Here and compared it to my K5Pro. For my ears there wasn't a difference in Sound...Well The Unit Had some Chanel inbalance on the 6,3 mm jack. Balance worked fine. I think it's a good all-in-one-Solution, but on a very pricy Side. Good Job, as always. 👍
In a market where the SMSL C200 offers literally every hardware feature imaginable for 240 bucks, any other DAC amp combo is obsolete! Well, unless you want something like the RME for its software features.
I think of it like this. I have 5 kids each one got a new cellphone about 16 years of age. That's why companies make a new one every year sometimes twice. It's always someone coming in new. Not for us old established people.
I would like to think that but this hobby breeds a lot of people that are basically addicted to upgrading. And if you watch enough RUclipsrs, they always tell you why you have to buy this or that. And hey they can do whatever they want with their money but I do wish more "reviewers" -- and I use that term very loosely -- were giving us reasons to keep $ in our pocket. Rather than telling us to buy everything or even partnering with the companies to make their own versions of the products.
@@michaelcorcoran8768 yeah I fell into that upgrade trap early on. Upgraded speakers, dac and amp twice then said that's enough it sounds great now find something else to buy. So I started on my cycling phase purchasing and accessorizing my electric bike. 😉
While I respect anyone's subjective opinion of a product, I have to say that in my listening experience I found the K9 Pro to offer greater imaging and dynamic range than both an Atom stack and an R2R dac amp combo. At first listen I noticed something more in the sound of the K9 compared to others. The sound was fuller and more natural to my ears. Leading edges seemed to me to be crisper and more "real". I guess it shows how totally subjective this hobby is. The final word is "if it sounds better to you, it is better". It is nice though to see someone who isn't afraid to say it as they see it. Nice review.
Glad I watched this was seriously considered this DAC or the Shanling EM5, but you saying you can't hear any difference convinced me going to the Shanling EM5, this is not only a dac but also a streamer, offers all the same functions and many more, functions I would like to have
Mate... You ever heard of something called "measurements"? Youd be surprised as to how much gear is audibly transparent, i.e. does not colout the sound and yet has audiofools raving about their sonic characteristics. Bias and placebo run rampant in audiophile land. Stick to numbers, for they dont lie.
Hype has caused it to be about 300-400 Australian dollar more than even the Chord Mojo 2, another overpried Dac/Amp everyone is fingering themselves to.
This is a vey subjective hobby. I have no problem with a well formulated opinion even if I disagree. I do have a problem with a smug and arrogant ass who insists he has the infallibility of the Pope and is completely right and everyone who disagrees is completely wrong and probably stupid and dishonest to boot. (FWIW, I have not heard the K9, but it is something on my radar and it's gotten numerous good reviews, and one mediocre one, from reviewers I have come to trust.)
I totally agree with you. I hate Dac fanatics and shills who keep pretending dacs have a magical aura, refuse to consider the measurements that contradict their beliefs, and claim the newest Dac is the most “dynamic.” I also deeply dislike passive aggressive audiophiles who invent reasons to make personal attacks because they accept only those opinions that don’t push their sensitive buttons. It’s a sad subjective community, you’re absolutely right. But hey, what can you expect from a sub-set that peddles nonsense, has an unshakable faith in things that they can’t prove, and call anyone who says this stupid and dishonest? 🤷♂️ Oh well.
The sub $1000 market is bland or boring if you will. I wish these solid state manufacturers would make something thats all about coloration. Now I love neutrality and all but it does get boring
You have no clue what the artist intended.... heck, sometimes not even the artist knows what they intended, checking final mixes and masters on a cheap bluetooth speaker.
Most artists just want their content available to people...and money. It's not like they walk around with their own special mics, speakers, dacs, and amps. I think they're too busy writing, composing, performing.
@@NoThemeReviews yup, I'm surprised about how little overlap there is between musicians and audiophiles. I'd expect it to be waaaay more, but it is what it is. Thanks for the reviews. I seriously wish you did a few "tier list" videos with your opinions in them. It would be extremely informative and entertaining.
If you were to say have a 100 or even 50 people do the same AB testing the results would likely be all over the place. I very much doubt there would be a completely unanimous result , maybe a trend at best. The best form of review is to try for yourself. I believe this reviewer also says this. So if you are the owner of this product and you are happy with it and keep it and use it for at least a few years you have achieved value for money in my view.
I agree that its impossible to exist so many listening steps in quality of the audio gear. It can exist in the cost tag instead. More money than rationality is the key in this market. Congratulation to be the voice against .
I was looking to replace my Geshelli J2 and SMSL SP200 with the K9, but don’t think I will now. I’m the guy that can’t tell the difference between the Apple dongle and J2, so I guess the K9 will be of little value to me. I’ll probably get a valve amp instead; just to try one.
Another great review. This is what i need to hear. I know it to be true as it correlates to what i experience myself in hifi, but every so often that snakeoil bullshittery sneaks in and corrupts my brain. A quick dose of NTR always fixes that :-) PS: any ETA on the Cambridge Audio? That one is on my shortlist, but i am curious as to what you think. Cheers!
not everyone can hear the difference, the same way not everyone can mix a song, or have perfect pitch or hearing really high pitch you're simply the one who can't, good for you though, buy cheap stuff, it's enough and not noticeable to you
Subjectivists hear things that don’t exist and make stupid comments about things they don’t bother to research beyond the forum page. Good for you, too.
A second question I want to have a set up who is future proofed and don't want to upgrade every time for little improvements. I prefer to invest in different headphones , IEMS. Would the following Dac/amp be a better value ? => TOPPING E70 DAC+ L70 AMP fyi at the moment I have Fiio k7 with BTA30 pro but can still return it would much appreciate your feedback :)!
I've not used the E70 or L70, but I'm sure they're fine. Frankly, if you want the most out of your money, you're better off buying a combo unit like the Topping EX5. For $350 you get transparent sound, more than enough power for every headphone you can think of, BT, MQA, PCM, DSD, Bluetooth, and the typical dac filters. There's no justification to pay for a separate E70 and L70 given they don't actually offer anything different that is useful.
The only DAC that makes sense in that price range is the MiniDSP SHD. which will give you Dirac room correction, bass management, EQ, etc. Knowing first-hand what proper DSP can do to improve speaker sound, a plain DAC for nearly $1k is just insulting.
I haven’t reviewed it. I use it because it’s powerful for any headphone, has balanced and single ended connection that I can select between quickly, and is transparent. I could use any number of alternatives such as the RNHP, Drop THX, or one of the many Topping or SMSL products, but the H16 is my preference since it’s always on my desk.
Was going to buy it but not anymore.. sticking with my K5 Pro.. fantastic unit especially with combo with some quality AMP in my case the Denon PMA-800ne
thank you for your review, Do you think it will beter to buy a dac amp stack with between an EQ pre amp ? if dacs does not really have a sound/ soundstage difference?
God no the ragnarok2 is in a whole different level but get the just an amp version and get something like a Giselle j2 akm version dac or a denafrips aries 2
Hi, I'm currently using Arc Mayflower MKII as my dac/amp/mic combo. I was thinking of buying another set of just dac/amp for listening to music only. Will the Topping EX5 be considered as an upgrade? Or I should just stick with the Arc?
@@NoThemeReviews EX5 is currently on sale for $250. My original plan was to buy the K9 Pro since I want a setup just for listening to music only. Luckily I came across your video before buying the K9. Thanks to you, I can spend the rest of the budget on a pair of headphone :)
I stopped hearing differences between well engineered DACs about 10 years ago. Im using Avantgade Unos - high resolution very low distortion. If you can "hear" a DAC it can only be poorly engineered.
13:08 I've had the K9 Pro (AKM version) for a few days I must say that I'm very disspointed with the output power from the Single Ended out. The K9 Pro is supposed to offer 2W at 32 ohms but even so I can only get listenable volume out of something like the Sivga SV021 (32 Ohm) at high gain with the volume dial at 12 o'clock, not to mention my Sundara's or Beyerdynamic Dt990's (250) ohm I realise that the balanced output is supposed to offer much more power (1W) at 300 Ohm but I find this so jarring that I can't help but wonder if something is wrong with my unit. If I had used high gain on my ifi zen can using single ended with a 32 ohm headphone I would have been as good as deaf. Did you do your listening with the Single Ended ? Did you notice a large discrepancy between the single ended and balanced output ?
I did about an equal amount of listening between single ended and balanced. On lower impedance headphones, I couldn't hear any material difference in loudness. On high impedance headphones, I think there was greater volume on balanced. But, it's really hard to make clear conclusions since I couldn't have one headphone plugged into both sockets at once. It is a bit confusing how Fiio was able to achieve (according to their measurements) the same power output for SE and balanced at 16 and 32 ohms, but a huge difference at 300 ohms. There's a significant fall-off on SE when they get to 300 ohms, and I wonder if that's some kind of artificial barrier in the circuit design--but that's entirely conjecture. Anyway, you're not the first person to complain about the power output.
@@NoThemeReviews I still have to test it balanced so I'm note sure. I was planning to use the single ended for a while (as it was rated at the same output pwer) but as I'm not getting the output power I should be getting at 2W I will try balanced as soon as possible. I do like the 'spaciousness' of the sound overall but if it can't provide what it should in output power I am defintely returning this
I have different dacs and daps and they sound different, it all depends on the sound signature of these devices. The link below is for your reference: ruclips.net/video/MV_ultqF8IU/видео.html
@@johnpotter4210 Seems like you haven’t actually listened to what I tell people constantly. People need to do their own A/B tests using a reliable, repeatable method. As for your comment about my subjective opinions, at least I try very hard to keep things as objective as possible given this hobby. You should give it a try instead of ridiculing us for not wasting our money on audiophile bullshit.
I can't listen to the hifi blah-blah of self-proclaimed golden ears anymore for a long time. Very good video! Maybe I can persuade you to test the just released FIIO R7? This device is in my opinion then different from the usual DAP range.
@@nicktan4530 Whenever someone tells you that, ask them exactly how they did A/B tests. I find it hard to believe these people as they make outlandish claims about gear-and it’s always the same type of praise for every new product, especially expensive stuff.
@@NoThemeReviews i actually purposeful ask and use the same exact words as you. 'Methodology' and 'parameters'. Then again, they will say not everybody hears the same and we need to be trained listener or whatever. Now, I know this because I have legitimately try different amps and dacs so I know what you mean. Sounds the same and all placebo. I did a trade with aunex1s with slightly higher output impedance still sound the same to me.
It ‘s great to see a reviewer just tell it like it is and back it up with a transparent process. I hope APOS and a like continue to send you gear knowing this. I am surprised though that the linear power supply built into the K9 would not have allowed for some sonic improvement ? say like against the Soncoz which I believe offers an after market product to account for the switching power supply used. The higher end Soncoz dac (SGD1) also like the K9 has a similar higher end power supply to the K9. From my experience when upgrading the power supply I have noted to my ear tangible benefits.
Nicely put. The first thing I was going to comment on was the power supply and the possible better quality components. Can you give a % to your tangible benefits of a linear power supply ? Thanks
@@deadline7610 it’s hard to give a % but for me the difference was satisfying enough. I have tried this with my fostex hp-a4bl which is great dac/amp combo as well as my Ifi Zen stream. I would like to see No themes review his Soncoz dac against their higher tier SGD1. Better still do your own experiments…. by far the best methodology in the world in my opinion.
I'm honestly quite shocked by your review. The amp section of this unit is just okay, from my experience. I actually preferred something like the Schiit Asgard 3 more. However, the DAC section is incredible for the price. I used to think DACs don't really make a huge difference. After comparing DACs, the K9 Pro Ess's DAC is great value. It sounded better on all fronts compared to other DACs below and above its price. I've asked friends, who don't care about Hi-Fi, listen to to the K9's DAC vs. a Schiit Modius and EX5 (plugged into the same amp) and every single person easily spotted a difference. So when you say the sound is indistinguishable, I want to call BS. You're also the only reviewer to claim these things. I don't think you can get much better for an all-in-one unit than the K9 Pro ESS at its asking price. To be truthful, most of your reviews seem to focus on telling everyone that everyone else is wrong.
Do a true A/B test. Volume-match, use Voicemeeter, play exactly the same tracks, use consistent testing methodology. And yes, people who claim that all dacs sound different are flat wrong. They continue to be wrong, particularly since nobody seems willing to do actual A/B tests. The setup you described does not appear to be an A/B rig, and that should be corrected. This is why I made a video about how to assemble your own rig for under $25. Telling me that your friends thought they heard a difference is not an explanation nor a cogent defense to your argument. Bringing a novice, non-audiophile, into the equation does not provide additional credibility. What differences did those people spot exactly? In what way? In what tracks? What happened if they adjusted volume? How long did they listen before rendering their opinion? What happened when you put them through a blind test where they could not see the components? And what information precisely did you give those people before you had them listen? I find it incredulous that dacs which are engineered and measured as flat or transparent suddenly sound better than another dac that is also transparent. How can you explain that? These are not FPGA designs, but drop-in dac chips purchased from (as in this case) ESS. And ESS makes absolutely no claims whatsoever in any of their dac schematics about their units having any particular sound, other than transparent. Instead of calling BS on me for doing consistent tests and showing exactly what I have done, you should put effort into adding some credibility to your own position. I always explain my process so that people can either replicate it at home, or explain what I should have done differently, if anything. You should follow suit. If you're confident in your belief, then show your work, put it on YT with exact methodology. And, if you're going to make claims that dacs sound different when no such promise was made by any of the manufacturers involved in the components, then you must explain why they sound different in light of the objective data.
I came from a Xduoo XA-10 and switched to the Fiio K9 AKM version, and I hear another subtle layer of details, like background chorus. So it's worth it. But the Xduoo had a better ergonomic, better switches and able to both listen to a headphone and HPs.
Nice review. The best way for me to explain my experience with the K9 Pro is this. I felt it sounded ok from the DAC point of view, but the amp portion sounded underpowered on some HP's and basically didn't make me feel like I was listening to an $850 DAC/Amp product. Fast forward to today where I currently have a stack of the SMSL VMV D1se DAC paired with the Monolith/Monoprice Balanced Amplifier THX AAA 887 where both in total cost around $1K. The difference is this stack at $1K sounds like something much more expensive... where the K9 Pro seems way overpriced for what it delivers.
@@nicktan4530 You're fine with easy to drive headphones like 32 ohm. But it struggled with 300 ohm headphones like the Verite Closed and HD 600. Couldn't even drive the HE1000se well and they are pretty easy to drive. These HP's need serious power to get the best sound out of them and the K9 Pro falls short. And forget driving something like the HE6se V2 with the K9 Pro. It couldn't even come close
@@nicktan4530 You can get some volume at 300 ohms and 600 ohms... but it wasn't satisfactory to me where the amp is not driving the HP's to their fullest capabilities compared to some other amps I have or have heard. Even using the XLR with 300 ohm HP's where I had the volume pinned at full volume and it still was lacking. I want Headphone amps with volume headroom that when I get to around 3 O'clock my ears are starting to bleed from the volume. At $850 there are better options than the K9 Pro if you don't 100% need a DAC/Amp All in one combo.
@@JTB-- I see even NTR never mentioned about it in the video. But good to know even you kinda sway me from getting one. But quite hard to believe the amp is not satisfactory even at max volume high gain ? Even my aunex1s single ended design gets super loud at 600 ohms. So the back seems to be lacking or bass just flat when you use VC 300 ohms at XLR ? Could be output impedance compatibility ?
Actually there’s a third option: likes and dislikes are for people who can’t think for themselves and need a sliver of the viewers to tell them if content is “good” or “bad”. I don’t condone it and won’t promote it. The vast majority of my content sits above 90% approval, but why does that matter? I made a video explaining why this counter nonsense is useless.
@@NoThemeReviews idk what to say but Fair play That is how it should be done It's just usual to see what other ppl think But that can blind you from just, watching the damn video lol Love your content and how critical, rather, how honest you are Keep up the good work
This is ludicrous! I would rather buy $850.00 worth of plug and play Headphones that sound good just plugging them into your smart phone or laptop. I have a pair of Skullcandy Smokin' Buds 2 Ear Buds (wired) that I bought from Amazon for $10.00 and they sound incredible plugging into my HP Envy laptop. I have many on ear and over ear plug and play Headphones that have great sound and powerful volume levels and they sound great. I don't know why they don't build all Headphones ready to plug in and play without the need for any DAC/AMP. The DAC/AMP should be built into the Headphone already.
Thank you very much. I absolutely agree with your opinion.
Thank you very much. I am happy I found this video before I was about to purchase K9 Pro EES as a K5 pro owner.
I have K5 Pro too. But the audiophiles community said K9 Pro is an improvement in sound quality over K5 or K7.
Going from Fiio e10K to K5 Pro I notice a huge improvement. Why K5 to K9 no improvement to sound quality?
Please review the all in one DAC/AMP Rosetechnics RT5000. I really need to know your honest and transparent opinion about this product. You are very capable of discerning truth from marketing gimmicks 😎
a very good dac amp with THX tech, but at 499 dollars we have hifiman ef400 with a 2x Himalaya R2R DAC and a huge 4.4 Watt on 32 ohm power output. i know that the ef400 have only analog connection and no bluetooth and digital imputs or outputs , but for sound quality and power has no rivals for that price.
So to summarize: The K9 Pro sounds as good and as bad as everything else. No point in buying it unless you need the other stuff it has. So why are we paying for other stuff anyway? 😂😂😂
I just can't believe you hear no difference between all those DACs. I have 4 DACs in my house, two of those with the exact same chip and specs (E30 & SMSL Sanskrit 10th MK2) and they all sound different (even if by a little bit). You are the only RUclips reviewer that claims there are no differences.
I too tried topping EX5 and L50+E50 combo which NTR claims to be sounding the same but damn the L50+E50 adds so much to the bass (not the punchy sub bass, more to the bass that adds to the warmth) area compared to the EX5. Perhaps there is a problem with the testing method he uses?
While I don't always agree with what NTR says I still appreciate his reviews and his no shilling style. So far I've only see him shill for the Ollo Audio S4X which I think deserved to be shilled.
By the way what are headphone are you using? I find that some headphones shows the sound difference between DACs more apparent than others. The transparent neutral ones will usually be able to show the sound coloration that the DACs provided more than the more colored headphones, at least from my experience.
Do you an A/B testing rig to compare them blindly?
@CraciunAlexandruGh I’m not the only one who says that. Unfortunately, nobody else on YT does actual A/B tests. Those who claim to hear differences never reveal their methodology, and when pressed for clarification typically say that the differences were so vast that it was apparent immediately upon changing components-a claim that is not supported by the data manufacturers provide or by A/B testing if it is ever done. Put your gear in an A/B rig-it’ll cost you less than $25 for components-then do real comparisons.
Well…if you gave a more exact explanation of your setup that would be helpful. If you’ve get these dacs set with speakers in different rooms, then you’re not making a strong point at all. If you just move from one Dac to another with a headphone you’re again not making a good argument. Plugging gear in and out is how people say they do comparisons but that’s not good enough, especially if you’re not actually doing a test
You referenced Argons in other video, and I see them making appearance here as well. Can you do a review on them? They seem to have a small, but zealous following. Thanks.
So much snark and focus on the marketing phrasing from a Chinese company's English copy, ugh, get on with it....
About 2 mins devoted to talking about marketing promises in a 25 min video. And you CAN skip using the time stamps. Why do you audiophiles pretend to not care about marketing when you literally wouldn’t be as forgiving for anything else you’re about to buy? 🙄
HEDDphone has extremely low sensitivity nearing to that of the Susvaras perhaps that is why the K9 Pro is having problem driving them.
Eh, maybe.
@@NoThemeReviews Though I forgot to add that at that price they should be able to drive them well considering how some cheaper Topping amps that you reviewed in the past has no problem driving them.
The K7 is a no brainer. It's the little brother with all the smart genes of a family of geniuses except it's just small in stature. A quarter of the price, 80% of the way.
It has eq but only over bluetooth. (Mobile phone app only.)
I was drinking a vodka martini in your honor as this video started. I just finished cleaning it off the wall thanks to hearing the price. :) Okay, so not really. But still, wow!!!! I think I'll work on keeping my bar stocked and saving money for headphones instead.
Shaken, not stirred
Can you review the Aune S9c Pro DAC/Amp and compare it with Fiio k9 Pro ESS?
Please test out hifiman ef400
Had one of the first AKM Version Here and compared it to my K5Pro.
For my ears there wasn't a difference in Sound...Well The Unit Had some Chanel inbalance on the 6,3 mm jack. Balance worked fine.
I think it's a good all-in-one-Solution, but on a very pricy Side.
Good Job, as always. 👍
In a market where the SMSL C200 offers literally every hardware feature imaginable for 240 bucks, any other DAC amp combo is obsolete! Well, unless you want something like the RME for its software features.
I think of it like this. I have 5 kids each one got a new cellphone about 16 years of age. That's why companies make a new one every year sometimes twice. It's always someone coming in new. Not for us old established people.
I would like to think that but this hobby breeds a lot of people that are basically addicted to upgrading. And if you watch enough RUclipsrs, they always tell you why you have to buy this or that.
And hey they can do whatever they want with their money but I do wish more "reviewers" -- and I use that term very loosely -- were giving us reasons to keep $ in our pocket. Rather than telling us to buy everything or even partnering with the companies to make their own versions of the products.
@@michaelcorcoran8768 yeah I fell into that upgrade trap early on. Upgraded speakers, dac and amp twice then said that's enough it sounds great now find something else to buy. So I started on my cycling phase purchasing and accessorizing my electric bike. 😉
While I respect anyone's subjective opinion of a product, I have to say that in my listening experience I found the K9 Pro to offer greater imaging and dynamic range than both an Atom stack and an R2R dac amp combo. At first listen I noticed something more in the sound of the K9 compared to others. The sound was fuller and more natural to my ears. Leading edges seemed to me to be crisper and more "real". I guess it shows how totally subjective this hobby is. The final word is "if it sounds better to you, it is better". It is nice though to see someone who isn't afraid to say it as they see it. Nice review.
Glad I watched this was seriously considered this DAC or the Shanling EM5, but you saying you can't hear any difference convinced me going to the Shanling EM5, this is not only a dac but also a streamer, offers all the same functions and many more, functions I would like to have
Mate... You ever heard of something called "measurements"? Youd be surprised as to how much gear is audibly transparent, i.e. does not colout the sound and yet has audiofools raving about their sonic characteristics. Bias and placebo run rampant in audiophile land. Stick to numbers, for they dont lie.
Hype has caused it to be about 300-400 Australian dollar more than even the Chord Mojo 2, another overpried Dac/Amp everyone is fingering themselves to.
This is a vey subjective hobby. I have no problem with a well formulated opinion even if I disagree. I do have a problem with a smug and arrogant ass who insists he has the infallibility of the Pope and is completely right and everyone who disagrees is completely wrong and probably stupid and dishonest to boot. (FWIW, I have not heard the K9, but it is something on my radar and it's gotten numerous good reviews, and one mediocre one, from reviewers I have come to trust.)
I totally agree with you. I hate Dac fanatics and shills who keep pretending dacs have a magical aura, refuse to consider the measurements that contradict their beliefs, and claim the newest Dac is the most “dynamic.” I also deeply dislike passive aggressive audiophiles who invent reasons to make personal attacks because they accept only those opinions that don’t push their sensitive buttons. It’s a sad subjective community, you’re absolutely right. But hey, what can you expect from a sub-set that peddles nonsense, has an unshakable faith in things that they can’t prove, and call anyone who says this stupid and dishonest? 🤷♂️ Oh well.
The closing punch line. BAM 💥
The sub $1000 market is bland or boring if you will. I wish these solid state manufacturers would make something thats all about coloration. Now I love neutrality and all but it does get boring
You have no clue what the artist intended.... heck, sometimes not even the artist knows what they intended, checking final mixes and masters on a cheap bluetooth speaker.
Most artists just want their content available to people...and money. It's not like they walk around with their own special mics, speakers, dacs, and amps. I think they're too busy writing, composing, performing.
@@NoThemeReviews yup, I'm surprised about how little overlap there is between musicians and audiophiles. I'd expect it to be waaaay more, but it is what it is. Thanks for the reviews. I seriously wish you did a few "tier list" videos with your opinions in them. It would be extremely informative and entertaining.
If you were to say have a 100 or even 50 people do the same AB testing the results would likely be all over the place. I very much doubt there would be a completely unanimous result , maybe a trend at best. The best form of review is to try for yourself. I believe this reviewer also says this. So if you are the owner of this product and you are happy with it and keep it and use it for at least a few years you have achieved value for money in my view.
I agree that its impossible to exist so many listening steps in quality of the audio gear.
It can exist in the cost tag instead.
More money than rationality is the key in this market.
Congratulation to be the voice against .
I was looking to replace my Geshelli J2 and SMSL SP200 with the K9, but don’t think I will now. I’m the guy that can’t tell the difference between the Apple dongle and J2, so I guess the K9 will be of little value to me.
I’ll probably get a valve amp instead; just to try one.
Another great review. This is what i need to hear. I know it to be true as it correlates to what i experience myself in hifi, but every so often that snakeoil bullshittery sneaks in and corrupts my brain. A quick dose of NTR always fixes that :-)
PS: any ETA on the Cambridge Audio? That one is on my shortlist, but i am curious as to what you think.
Cheers!
Yeah, hopefully in the next few weeks.
not everyone can hear the difference, the same way not everyone can mix a song, or have perfect pitch or hearing really high pitch
you're simply the one who can't, good for you though, buy cheap stuff, it's enough and not noticeable to you
Subjectivists hear things that don’t exist and make stupid comments about things they don’t bother to research beyond the forum page. Good for you, too.
A second question I want to have a set up who is future proofed and don't want to upgrade every time for little improvements. I prefer to invest in different headphones , IEMS. Would the following Dac/amp be a better value ?
=> TOPPING E70 DAC+ L70 AMP
fyi at the moment I have Fiio k7 with BTA30 pro but can still return it
would much appreciate your feedback :)!
I've not used the E70 or L70, but I'm sure they're fine. Frankly, if you want the most out of your money, you're better off buying a combo unit like the Topping EX5. For $350 you get transparent sound, more than enough power for every headphone you can think of, BT, MQA, PCM, DSD, Bluetooth, and the typical dac filters. There's no justification to pay for a separate E70 and L70 given they don't actually offer anything different that is useful.
After seeing your other video on the 1500 dollar challenge, I went for the RME dac instead of this. Thanks again~
The only DAC that makes sense in that price range is the MiniDSP SHD. which will give you Dirac room correction, bass management, EQ, etc. Knowing first-hand what proper DSP can do to improve speaker sound, a plain DAC for nearly $1k is just insulting.
There's also the Monolith THX Desktop.
The Mini DSP SHP is like 500 dollars more.
I cannot find you're review of the Gustard H16. Is there a particular reason you use this headphone amp for dac testing?
I haven’t reviewed it. I use it because it’s powerful for any headphone, has balanced and single ended connection that I can select between quickly, and is transparent. I could use any number of alternatives such as the RNHP, Drop THX, or one of the many Topping or SMSL products, but the H16 is my preference since it’s always on my desk.
Was going to buy it but not anymore.. sticking with my K5 Pro.. fantastic unit especially with combo with some quality AMP in my case the Denon PMA-800ne
lol "Chi-Fi" is my new favorite word
thank you for your review, Do you think it will beter to buy a dac amp stack with between an EQ pre amp ? if dacs does not really have a sound/ soundstage difference?
It’s not better or worse just a difference setup. EQ or DSP can affect the perception of soundstage, but a transparent Dac and amp will not.
@@NoThemeReviews thank you
Is it more powerful than the schiit ragnarok 2?
God no the ragnarok2 is in a whole different level but get the just an amp version and get something like a Giselle j2 akm version dac or a denafrips aries 2
Hi, I'm currently using Arc Mayflower MKII as my dac/amp/mic combo. I was thinking of buying another set of just dac/amp for listening to music only. Will the Topping EX5 be considered as an upgrade? Or I should just stick with the Arc?
An upgrade in the sense of more power and features.
@@NoThemeReviews EX5 is currently on sale for $250. My original plan was to buy the K9 Pro since I want a setup just for listening to music only. Luckily I came across your video before buying the K9. Thanks to you, I can spend the rest of the budget on a pair of headphone :)
@@ucilzgamingacc8103 lol. You’ll get more fun out of your new headphones than the k9. Enjoy!
I stopped hearing differences between well engineered DACs about 10 years ago. Im using Avantgade Unos - high resolution very low distortion. If you can "hear" a DAC it can only be poorly engineered.
You said so many things in this review that makes me think differently when purchasing audio equipment. Thank you.
You have yourself a new subscriber.
13:08
I've had the K9 Pro (AKM version) for a few days
I must say that I'm very disspointed with the output power from the Single Ended out.
The K9 Pro is supposed to offer 2W at 32 ohms but even so I can only get listenable volume out of something like the Sivga SV021 (32 Ohm) at high gain with the volume dial at 12 o'clock, not to mention my Sundara's or Beyerdynamic Dt990's (250) ohm
I realise that the balanced output is supposed to offer much more power (1W) at 300 Ohm but I find this so jarring that I can't help but wonder if something is wrong with my unit.
If I had used high gain on my ifi zen can using single ended with a 32 ohm headphone I would have been as good as deaf.
Did you do your listening with the Single Ended ?
Did you notice a large discrepancy between the single ended and balanced output ?
I did about an equal amount of listening between single ended and balanced. On lower impedance headphones, I couldn't hear any material difference in loudness. On high impedance headphones, I think there was greater volume on balanced. But, it's really hard to make clear conclusions since I couldn't have one headphone plugged into both sockets at once.
It is a bit confusing how Fiio was able to achieve (according to their measurements) the same power output for SE and balanced at 16 and 32 ohms, but a huge difference at 300 ohms. There's a significant fall-off on SE when they get to 300 ohms, and I wonder if that's some kind of artificial barrier in the circuit design--but that's entirely conjecture.
Anyway, you're not the first person to complain about the power output.
@@NoThemeReviews I still have to test it balanced so I'm note sure.
I was planning to use the single ended for a while (as it was rated at the same output pwer) but as I'm not getting the output power I should be getting at 2W I will try balanced as soon as possible.
I do like the 'spaciousness' of the sound overall but if it can't provide what it should in output power I am defintely returning this
I cant wait to use it whith my cannabis and headphone
I have different dacs and daps and they sound different, it all depends on the sound signature of these devices.
The link below is for your reference:
ruclips.net/video/MV_ultqF8IU/видео.html
Do a real A/B test. Zeos is the last person anyone with half a brain should ever listen to.
Oh no, you fell for the used car salesman of audio's shill, don't worry you can still be saved by watching more of No theme reviews...
😆 🤣 😂 anyone using Zeos as reference should not be taken seriously.
@@NoThemeReviews but listen to your Subjective opinion AB testing?
@@johnpotter4210 Seems like you haven’t actually listened to what I tell people constantly. People need to do their own A/B tests using a reliable, repeatable method. As for your comment about my subjective opinions, at least I try very hard to keep things as objective as possible given this hobby. You should give it a try instead of ridiculing us for not wasting our money on audiophile bullshit.
Thanks!
I can't listen to the hifi blah-blah of self-proclaimed golden ears anymore for a long time. Very good video! Maybe I can persuade you to test the just released FIIO R7? This device is in my opinion then different from the usual DAP range.
I’ll reach out to Apos and maybe they’ll let me borrow it
No offense you are the only guy who said the k9 pro sounds the same as other cheaper alternative. Am yet to hear the k9 pro.
How many others do actual A/B comparisons?
@@NoThemeReviews i don't know. But these people can simply claimed they did a/b.
@@nicktan4530 Whenever someone tells you that, ask them exactly how they did A/B tests. I find it hard to believe these people as they make outlandish claims about gear-and it’s always the same type of praise for every new product, especially expensive stuff.
@@NoThemeReviews i actually purposeful ask and use the same exact words as you. 'Methodology' and 'parameters'. Then again, they will say not everybody hears the same and we need to be trained listener or whatever. Now, I know this because I have legitimately try different amps and dacs so I know what you mean. Sounds the same and all placebo. I did a trade with aunex1s with slightly higher output impedance still sound the same to me.
@@NoThemeReviews Hi so no comment ?
I'm guessing it didn't move your human soul, then. Well, too bad. 😕
I can give 500 bucks for this. New. 😁
It ‘s great to see a reviewer just tell it like it is and back it up with a transparent process. I hope APOS and a like continue to send you gear knowing this. I am surprised though that the linear power supply built into the K9 would not have allowed for some sonic improvement ? say like against the Soncoz which I believe offers an after market product to account for the switching power supply used. The higher end Soncoz dac (SGD1) also like the K9 has a similar higher end power supply to the K9. From my experience when upgrading the power supply I have noted to my ear tangible benefits.
Nicely put.
The first thing I was going to comment on was the power supply and the possible better quality components.
Can you give a % to your tangible benefits of a linear power supply ?
Thanks
@@deadline7610 it’s hard to give a % but for me the difference was satisfying enough. I have tried this with my fostex hp-a4bl which is great dac/amp combo as well as my Ifi Zen stream. I would like to see No themes review his Soncoz dac against their higher tier SGD1. Better still do your own experiments…. by far the best methodology in the world in my opinion.
I'm honestly quite shocked by your review. The amp section of this unit is just okay, from my experience. I actually preferred something like the Schiit Asgard 3 more. However, the DAC section is incredible for the price. I used to think DACs don't really make a huge difference. After comparing DACs, the K9 Pro Ess's DAC is great value. It sounded better on all fronts compared to other DACs below and above its price. I've asked friends, who don't care about Hi-Fi, listen to to the K9's DAC vs. a Schiit Modius and EX5 (plugged into the same amp) and every single person easily spotted a difference. So when you say the sound is indistinguishable, I want to call BS. You're also the only reviewer to claim these things. I don't think you can get much better for an all-in-one unit than the K9 Pro ESS at its asking price. To be truthful, most of your reviews seem to focus on telling everyone that everyone else is wrong.
Do a true A/B test. Volume-match, use Voicemeeter, play exactly the same tracks, use consistent testing methodology. And yes, people who claim that all dacs sound different are flat wrong. They continue to be wrong, particularly since nobody seems willing to do actual A/B tests. The setup you described does not appear to be an A/B rig, and that should be corrected. This is why I made a video about how to assemble your own rig for under $25.
Telling me that your friends thought they heard a difference is not an explanation nor a cogent defense to your argument. Bringing a novice, non-audiophile, into the equation does not provide additional credibility. What differences did those people spot exactly? In what way? In what tracks? What happened if they adjusted volume? How long did they listen before rendering their opinion? What happened when you put them through a blind test where they could not see the components? And what information precisely did you give those people before you had them listen?
I find it incredulous that dacs which are engineered and measured as flat or transparent suddenly sound better than another dac that is also transparent. How can you explain that? These are not FPGA designs, but drop-in dac chips purchased from (as in this case) ESS. And ESS makes absolutely no claims whatsoever in any of their dac schematics about their units having any particular sound, other than transparent.
Instead of calling BS on me for doing consistent tests and showing exactly what I have done, you should put effort into adding some credibility to your own position. I always explain my process so that people can either replicate it at home, or explain what I should have done differently, if anything. You should follow suit. If you're confident in your belief, then show your work, put it on YT with exact methodology. And, if you're going to make claims that dacs sound different when no such promise was made by any of the manufacturers involved in the components, then you must explain why they sound different in light of the objective data.
What is your methodology and testing ? Am curious as well. Because I myself cannot hear the difference.
I came from a Xduoo XA-10 and switched to the Fiio K9 AKM version, and I hear another subtle layer of details, like background chorus. So it's worth it.
But the Xduoo had a better ergonomic, better switches and able to both listen to a headphone and HPs.
Leave it to, NTR, to give ya, the , right skinny on thins..nice review, NTR..
K7 review when ?
When someone lets me borrow it
TXH truth!
Nice review. The best way for me to explain my experience with the K9 Pro is this. I felt it sounded ok from the DAC point of view, but the amp portion sounded underpowered on some HP's and basically didn't make me feel like I was listening to an $850 DAC/Amp product. Fast forward to today where I currently have a stack of the SMSL VMV D1se DAC paired with the Monolith/Monoprice Balanced Amplifier THX AAA 887 where both in total cost around $1K. The difference is this stack at $1K sounds like something much more expensive... where the K9 Pro seems way overpriced for what it delivers.
What headphone are you driving with ?
@@nicktan4530 You're fine with easy to drive headphones like 32 ohm. But it struggled with 300 ohm headphones like the Verite Closed and HD 600. Couldn't even drive the HE1000se well and they are pretty easy to drive. These HP's need serious power to get the best sound out of them and the K9 Pro falls short. And forget driving something like the HE6se V2 with the K9 Pro. It couldn't even come close
@@JTB-- This seems concerning. But can you get volume at 300 ohms or even 600 ohms ? Could be because of low output impedance ?
@@nicktan4530 You can get some volume at 300 ohms and 600 ohms... but it wasn't satisfactory to me where the amp is not driving the HP's to their fullest capabilities compared to some other amps I have or have heard. Even using the XLR with 300 ohm HP's where I had the volume pinned at full volume and it still was lacking. I want Headphone amps with volume headroom that when I get to around 3 O'clock my ears are starting to bleed from the volume. At $850 there are better options than the K9 Pro if you don't 100% need a DAC/Amp All in one combo.
@@JTB-- I see even NTR never mentioned about it in the video. But good to know even you kinda sway me from getting one. But quite hard to believe the amp is not satisfactory even at max volume high gain ? Even my aunex1s single ended design gets super loud at 600 ohms. So the back seems to be lacking or bass just flat when you use VC 300 ohms at XLR ? Could be output impedance compatibility ?
This is the one that DMS said was the greatest product ever or something. Or am I confusing it?
Yup
@@NoThemeReviews but isn't he saying its far beyond human hearing ?
Do you just spend your time on the comments section of every audio gear? I swear you're everywhere lol.
@@epicmike3915 Who me ?
Why turn off the like view?
Did YT say it was a kida video or are ya just scared?
Actually there’s a third option: likes and dislikes are for people who can’t think for themselves and need a sliver of the viewers to tell them if content is “good” or “bad”. I don’t condone it and won’t promote it. The vast majority of my content sits above 90% approval, but why does that matter?
I made a video explaining why this counter nonsense is useless.
@@NoThemeReviews idk what to say but
Fair play
That is how it should be done
It's just usual to see what other ppl think
But that can blind you from just, watching the damn video lol
Love your content and how critical, rather, how honest you are
Keep up the good work
Excellent review
This is ludicrous! I would rather buy $850.00 worth of plug and play Headphones that sound good just plugging them into your smart phone or laptop. I have a pair of Skullcandy Smokin' Buds 2 Ear Buds (wired) that I bought from Amazon for $10.00 and they sound incredible plugging into my HP Envy laptop. I have many on ear and over ear plug and play Headphones that have great sound and powerful volume levels and they sound great. I don't know why they don't build all Headphones ready to plug in and play without the need for any DAC/AMP. The DAC/AMP should be built into the Headphone already.
Already is, onna tws earbuds...amplified/ codecs/ volume control..I ave 8 pair of twsz, and 4 iems, with a amp..luv to hear my music, in both forms...
This guy is glass half empty
No, I’m realistic, unlike the jokers who peddle gear for $$$.
@@NoThemeReviews You can't hear a difference because you're fucking deaf.
@pietossing2523 You Dac fanboys are sad. And you specifically need therapy, heavy medication, and constant adult supervision.
@@NoThemeReviews you run a review channel and everything sounds the same to you. waste your time much?
People who can't hear a difference in amps/dacs are deaf as hell. Their mind simply doesn't distinguish what they are perceiving.
And people like you who say such stupid things are insane and need medication.