SMSL SH-9 - Here We Go Again
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2021
- SMSL SH-9: [APOS AUDIO] apos.audio/products/smsl-sh-9...
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TIME STAMPS:
Build & Features - 1:17
Overall Sound Signature - 4:44
Power Output - 10:32
Value & Conclusion - 15:15
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This is now my favorite audio channel. Honesty coming out the ears. You are not trying to sell me anything. If anything you are helping me to see what I have is good enough. And good enough is good enough. Excellent channel.
Välkommen! :D
He might not have used cables that are resolving enough to unleash the THX amps in the SH-9. In HIFI it’s all about synergy and the weakest link will be your limit. You don’t want to be using sub standard equipment when testing a high quality class A amp like the GS-X mini for example.
@@chamade166 I really hope you are trolling
@@nitromenoob I mean, he's not wrong. I've seen my Sennheiser HD598s sound clear and resolving with the stock cable and sound like god-awful garbage with an aftermarket replacement cable. The weakest link really does matter. That doesn't mean you need every component to be ultra high-end, just good enough to reveal the true sonic qualities of what you're testing.
Reasons to get SH-9:
1) XLR inputs
2) relay step volume control (practically perfect channel balance throughout device lifetime)
3) dead silent (very good SINAD)
4) good output power
5) alternatives are not available in the region (for example, Schiit, Monolith or almost all US brands are not available in my region)
6) near zero output impedance
You can get similar audible performance for cheaper, but then you are going to roll the dice with ground loops (which XLR input eliminates), channel balance issues (SP200 reviews have mentioned it) which the step volume control eliminates.
It is very good value amplifier and I was considering getting one, but I rolled the dice with Atom Amp and it is working out for me so far.
Finding a (headphone amp) with a remote is rare. I think that in it self with perfect channel balance makes it worth the price.
This video is a perfect example of how other reviewers have no idea what they’re doing. I read ASR’s measurements of the sh9 and even Amir didn’t question the veracity of smsl claims.
As long as it powers my headphones and provides low distortion and noise, I'm fine.
I am so glad I found this channel. New sub. Thank you for this and all your other reviews. Honest, sensible, no bs. As a relative newcomer to the Audiophile world, I kept having this feeling that something was off with other reviews when compared to my own research, data interpretation and admittedly limited knowledge and hands-on experience with my small but growing collection of equipment. Then I found this channel and found you speaking and putting words to some of the very questions I had swirling in my head. Comforting and refreshing to say the least. This has really helped educate me a bit and helped me refine my approach to evaluating new gear I am considering purchasing in the future. Echoing other's comments, thank you and keep up the excellent work!
I’m glad I can be of some help!
A brilliant review which points to the elephant in the room of amplifier reviews - once distortion and noise are below audible levels then further improvements make no difference whatsoever. As long as a headphone amplifier has enough power to drive the intended load to the desired volume then most amplifiers have been transparent and neutral for years. Unless you want a coloured amplifier then it's probably harder to find a bad headphone amplifier than one that just works. And A/B is the only truly objective way to review, even better if ABX, it's amazing how so many night and day differences disappear. A headphone amplifier is a bit like a lawnmower, why replace something that just works? However most reviewers are just part of the hype train. ASR are just as bad as obsessing over measurements that went beyond limits of audibilty many years ago is just as subjective as the florid prose they profess to hate. There is a funny thread about some other SMSL product at the moment which measured splendidly but which somebody measured and found an issue with. It's interesting for two reasons. One is that despite howls about the design being broken nobody noticed it, meaning its audible performance was fine anyway. Secondly, it's more evidence of something fishy about the way companies like SMSL and Topping are playing the measurement game.
They are now launching a new amp every month. Why not? Idiots are buying it. I'm not saying they make bad product. But I can dare anybody to tell the difference between a $150 topping amp and $500 topping amp. Moreover, I had the topping A90 which claimed to to have one of the best measurements and there was audible hiss while using single ended inputs. This was noticed by many other users. The problem isn't present on balanced but it hasn't happened with my other amps using single ended. So, what's the point of all that exemplary measurements?
Fantastic review nice to hear an honest opinion once again much appreciated
Hi, i got branded in forums for not hearing difference, it's very fatiguing statement from people, that if you can't hear, means you can't afford it, or don't have enough experience, yet all of them never did blindtest, its amazing... Got a balanced switch myself + selfmade cables to be able to compare balanced/unbalanced outputs. You should try the fx audio dac-x6, you will be surprised by its performance cost ratio, it would certainly leave people speechless in comparison to high cost products, if they would ever do a blindtest.
Everything was build by science, yet a lot of people don't trust science when it comes to audio. This alone is just nuts.
Straight to the point. Good information here.
May i say that Drop thx aaa one would be definitely better than this?
Or Schiit Asgard 3 (only amp)?
This is very nice. This is the most honest audio review channel I've watched
I feel the same way
Another awesome no BS review. Thanks man. Hanging out for your HiFi list of recommended products. DACs Amps Headphones etc
How's about doing a how to set up A-B test video with what equipment to use, and how to volume match etc,ect and give a step by step guide on how you review audio gear and the process you use would be a great help to many .thanks for all your honest sensible thought's.
Sounds like a plan!
I agree!! Please give some pointers on this! Always wondered how you run 2 amps concurrently without impacting audio quality
How does the su-8s or even the Su-9n and EX5 as a dac compare to the D30Pro. I have a Sp200 with Ananda and going to pick up Focal clear headphone
Happy with the K5 pro and hifiman sundara pairing.. not going to look at another desktop dac amp setup. Thanks for the transparent and honest articulation..
this channel rocks. Finally a skeptical approach to the space thats actually realistic and useful, thanks man
Really digging this channel. I particularly appreciate his tone in addressing bs.
@No Theme Reviews I am curious about your passive switch. which one did you use?
amzn.to/3ewjTMN
Great! I was shocked to see the other reviews miss the power output thing. Soundnews pretends he knows how stuff works but it’s now clear he just lists specs from the manufacturer.
I recently picked up an audio-gd master-11 Dac/amp and noticed that the difference between it and my monolith dac/amp was not nearly as noticeable as the difference that it made with my speaker system. Have you ever noticed DACs to make a larger difference with speakers than headphones?
Actually it’s the opposite for me. I hear very little difference with speakers than with headphones. But then again, I don’t spend much time using speakers so I’m not as familiar with their alterations than I am with headphones
@@NoThemeReviews probably because my speakers are higher end than my headphones I guess and also using high end sources. I started my speaker journey a decade before delving into headphones so very far down the rabbit hole at this point.
Thanks for the no-nonsense reviews. I'm waiting on t60 argons and trying to find a good amp for it. Do the lower priced amps you mention in this video (heresy, liquid spark) have plenty of power or does it benefit from more power like the magnius?
I think the T60 does benefit from the Heresy and Liquid Spark. While Fostex recommends up to 3w, I simply don't think you get any benefit from that type of power. 1w is the sweet spot. The trouble with adding more and more power is diminishing returns. If you don't need the Magnius for anything else, or you don't want to spend the extra money on it, the other two amps are plenty good for the T60.
@@NoThemeReviews Awesome! That will save me some money. So much conflicting advice out there with Argons. Some people say they need LOTS of power and others say the budget amps do just fine. Thanks again!
What is the difference between not real balanced and balanced in this amp ? Just power? Sorry I am not English native, thanks I don't know what to buy sp200 or vallhalla 2 or monolith 887, for future 600 ohm headphones and other via xlr and pentacon 4.4, Greating from Mexico. I have fiio k5 pro can I use it like a dac to conect one of mencioned amps?
Yes you can use the K5 Pro as a Dac. The only difference between true balanced and not balanced is that in balanced configuration the left and right channels are kept separate to reduce noise. In practical terms, using modern amps, there is literally no audible difference between balanced and not balanced output. They sound exactly the same, and there’s no audible noise out of either. The balanced output typically has greater power-but it’s a bigger hassle and more costly if you don’t already have a balanced Dac and balanced headphones. In my opinion, balanced amps are unnecessary. People have plenty of good, powerful not balanced amps to choose from
Lol, I have that exact little A/B switch and have used it for that exact same scenario… I found very little differences between the amps I tested … one exception was my HiFiMAN EF100 really did have a touch more bass emphasis than the other amps I compared against (can’t remember but I think it was my Project Polaris)… I also detected that a cheap Chinese balanced amp sounded slightly more intimate, less wide than my other amps.
These differences, however, were subtle enough that I may not have been able to know for sure I even heard a difference had I not had that A/B switcher
Yeah, +1 on how boring it is to review amplifiers… I recall being a bit perplexed at why my shiny new THX 789 sounded virtually identical to the headphone out on my ancient Yulong D100 DAC/amp and delivered the same amount of volume to my somewhat hard to drive planars, the HE-560 🤷🏽♂️
Since then, I’ve only worried about amps in terms of how they operate on the margins, e.g., I HAVE found some of gear doesn’t play well with inefficient planars (low sensitivity) with low impedance, like my Aeon Flow cans with their 13 Ohm rating - I can get distortion when pushing the volume or in extreme cases there is a really irritating noise floor.
Another edge case is my Little Dot I+ can’t really deliver enough power to my HE-560, despite being able to make my higher impedance dynamics like my Sennies sound great.
But excepting those edge cases, I’ve pretty much found all my amps are similar in performance.
Talking about neutral budget amps, would you say the power differences make a significant enough difference? I was consering getting the Argons Mk3 for fun, immersive SP gaming because of their fun bass and spacious soundstage, but the hype train gatekeeps them only sounding proper with emotiva bassX 100 (just like the DT880s 600ohm). I find that curiously odd as that thing has 200ohm OI to the Argons 50ohm drivers, that's some really bad damping factor. I was thinking something on the line of the magni heresy or the topping L30. Edit: Just seen your video on the L30 and got my answer. Would there be any reasonable budget amp to power the argons then? I dislike the notion of paying more in amplification than on the headphones themselves...
And congrats on the video btw. You're one of the only english youtubers that resonates my findings against DACs and amps. I'm getting really annoyed at those hype trains around them as they can lead to infatuation and thus frustation. I always found it very hard to pinpoint dac and amp differences with my own gear, and I've owned quite a few things over the years: with volume matched, even my OTL amp sound 90% similar enough to my solid state. Meanwhile people are writing rivers of ink about each new product instead of properly comparing them: everything can be described to exhaustion when listened absolutely and in isolation...
Reviewers want to sell you gear so they make money, one way or another. The Argon is a simple headphone to understand. If you have 1w at 50 ohms, you’ve met the requirements. The L30 and Schiit Magni are plenty powerful. The Emotiva amp is a terrible solution. There is no reason why people should resort to speaker amps for headphones. This is a myth that Zeos and his fans have been regurgitating for a long time. It’s simply not true. IMO, don’t waste money on the Emotiva. The Magni works perfectly with the Argon.
Have you checked the SP200 i just got it and was thinking to upgrade to this one ( SMSL SH-9 ) and what dac should i use with the SP200 if i want MQA and should i keep the SP200 I got it for half the cost atm New With 2 years warranty
I’ve never used the SP200, so I couldn’t comment about it. If you want an affordable MQA Dac, you might want to look into the Zen Dac. It’s got a slightly warm sound signature but if won’t bother you, then it’s a great little device. Alternatively, Topping and SMSL have a few dacs around the $300-400 mark that might suit you, such as the E50, SU-8S, or EX5.
@No Theme Reviews Thanks for the info ,would the ex5 be a good pair with the sp200 or should i just use the ex5 by it self. Would i benefit on xlr inputs etc from the ex5 vs the zen dac v2 or the e50 dac. i have Hifiman Anandas atm but going to get the Focal Clear or elex. How about topping 30apro any good amp too
I would buy an RME audio interface and record the analog outputs of DACs and or the output of a headphone amp into a DAW if I wanted to proper a-b test. More work but should be theoretically better than an a-b switch.
I should state that I walk both lines of music. I enjoy professional and enthusiast audio since I'm a musician
I’ll admit I a bit of a sucker for a display, but more so on DACs than amps. I do like the volume display on the Loxjie P20 as it makes it easier to more objectively quantify volume level when comparing headphones on the same amp.
Why not the SP200??
I got mine on sale for $250 and to me it was worth it because I am a bit ocd and having a digital display to know my exact volume helps.
Hi what audio switcher did you use? Trying to look for one online that doesn't look bad on a desk and cant seem to find the right keyword ,😂
These are the switches I use:
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amzn.to/3yKxLgT
@@NoThemeReviews thanks a bunch!
Have you reviewed your rebel amp yet?
That green goblin stares at me every day and I promise it I’ll review it soon. I’ve got a lull in reviews this week and no deadlines so I’ll do it now.
thanx for the education brother. I was thinking of upgrading my sh6 and su6 and watching your video i learned that it is pointless. besides headphones are the ones who really give you a tone
I have the Fiio, and using it's DAC, I'm very impressed... Not so much with it's Analogue in, though.
may i ask what product in the range of $300 dollar would you recommend as value to you? amp only or dac/amp would do
if you are looking for headphone desktop AMP + DAC setup, try iFi ZEN CAN, pair it with TOPPING D10s, or E30. Do order on Amazon website. If you wont like it, print labels and send it back for free.
@@darekzmarek1842 yeah currently i m using the ifi zen combo (dac +can), just wanted to see if there's anything better
Depends on what you’re looking for. What features do you want? Personally, my recommendations for this price range are: Schiit Magni/Modi, Liquid Spark, Zen Dac/Can, Monolith THX Portable, Ikko Zerda, Topping NX4, Soncoz LA-QXD1, Loxjie P20, Darkvoice 336, and LG V30/40 (I mean, you can get one for $50 and it’s a great DAP).
@@NoThemeReviews i'm currently on the ifi zen combo, what setup would be a next step up to this?
When you say “step up”, what do you think is lacking in your current setup? You can pay triple the price and not get the overall features that the Zen Dac has. Paying more won’t get you less audible noise (it’s already well below human hearing).
Love the no bullshit approach. Its the direction I been leaning with my videos as well. Been through lots of gear the last 2 years and overall have been rather underwhelmed with how much difference is really heard with all this stuff. The perception all these other tubers give is really inflating these tiny differences and is usually completely subjective because none of them know anything about audio. Or just believe its cometely subjective. Audio marketing and fluff is such BS can't imagine why people are so ignorant about it after all these years. I'm adding you to my lineup with AmirASR, GeneAudioholics, and ErinsAudioCorner.
Thanks!
I fucking love this channel. I actually think the wattage measurements are justified this time at the su-9 runs at the spec they tested with and is meant to be paired with it. If you want to see really misleading numbers I think the a90 and the a50s from topping are good examples. I actually like the sh-9/su-9 stack personally. I don't own one myself, but for 750 you can get a premium, feature packed stack that looks good and has higher build quality and runs with the given advertised spec. Maybe not great value for the price, but I don't see anything better at that price sooo...
Lol...nothing else YET. I'm sure another brand will try to compete directly with this stack. I mean...heck, SMSL will likely compete with it.
i was actually looking at this amp and exactly the screen was my problem makes device bigger and why would you need a screen that doesn't serve any purpose
Wondering what your opinion on best AMP/DAC combo under $500 is and best value used under $500, I was enjoying a used iFi micro iDSD and changed to a SMSL cheap stack and the iFi beats it but mostly because the amp sucks... going to try the schiit asgard 3 keep hearing good things, what's your take? Willing to spend $500 for used if I can get a great deal tho
Please review some tube amps for 6xx
There aren’t many OTL options under $300, and I don’t think hybrids offer much tube effect for the 6xx.
Try the little dot mk2 with upgraded tubes
Vs Jotunheim 2 and Topping A30Pro and Singxer SA-1
Thank you,
Next great review without "standard" audiophile bs. :-)
Finally some ab tests in a RUclips channel. Time to close all the other BS audiophile channels.
After my m500 DAC\amp got bricked I will NEVER buy another H/W branded S.M.S.L. Whole situation could be simple avoided if this shady company post any information about firmware flash cycle count for their product. BEWARE !!!!
Flash cycle count?
lol poor K5 Pro it looks like it's been at war i have K5 Pro for 3 years i think and still looks like brand new and for anyone that wonder K5 Pro AKM version sounds a little better for music then the New ESS version the ESS version is very clear but kinda sterile while AKM version is very smooth and more pleasant to listen to more fun now i really regret givin up the K9 Pro after hearing K9 Pro ESS version
Those reviewers you mentioned move on without a care for the crap they were schilling at the time. Next week it will be the next hyped bs. I specially loved a video titled my endgame 4 years ago. Endgame my ass lol.
Yeah. They always choose the most expensive stuff they get sent as “endgame”...and then rinse and repeat.
Balanced is only useful for very long cable runs, you're not going to hear it. "BALANCED" overtakes THX for marketing fluff. Look, the reality is, these SMSL products are fantastic and the double blind studies with much more expensive DACs prove this. They ARE worth the money and the SU-9 is a superb ESS based DAC.
in short almost any dac and amp between $100 and $300 will do excellent job which is actually great for customers not that good for companies that want to sell dacs and amps for thousands of dollars that realistically should cost few hundred dollars thats why these companies need youtubers and all kinds of Hype machinery to make ppl buy useless and Very Overpriced Crap
So just don't review them :) Everybody will be happy then :)
It’s more like a civic service. Like jury duty.
@@NoThemeReviews hahaha :P It was a good review though so thanks!
Hahaha negative numbers i tryed not to laugh :D This SH-9 is same shite what is SP200 but digital volume and better vol relay potatos :D
Actually no. I have both amps and the SP200 has slightly harsher treble than the SH-9. SH-9 is much smoother.
@@johnellison3173 Ok. What hp:s you have tested with? Just curious to know.
@@konna200 DT1990, 1770, Tygr300r, mmx300 mk2, AKG K702, K712 pro, 550 mk3, senn HD660s, Sundara, fidelio X1, pioneer SE-A1000 and the good old brainwavz HM5. Then there's also my IEM collecttion which is too many to mention.
@@johnellison3173 N1 and thanks for sharing =) AKG 7xx series are very good and i dont understand why ppl dont make any fuss of them and they are pretty cheap here like the Q701 was 200€ and 712pro only 179€ so good value for the money.
@@konna200 Totally agree. The K702 was the first headphone I ever bought. It was about £75 at the time and thats the one that sent me down the rabbit hole. The AKGs are also excellent for gaming 👍
I guess we dont have audiophile ears...
Lol. Evidently.
@@NoThemeReviews But people say we need more higher end resolving headphones along with dacs. I lack of experience to justify the statement.
@@nicktan4530 Yes, I've read and heard those statements as well. They're utter nonsense for a number of obvious reasons:
First, if all dacs actually had different sound signatures, the manufacturers would say that. They don't. The niche brands make vague claims, and typically rely upon the components as being of "audiophile quality"--which IMPLIES somehow "better" sound quality.
Second, when measured, the vast majority of dacs are flat or neutral. While this measurement is subject to testing methodology, tester bias, and the equipment, it's at least a start.
Third, people who claim all dacs sound different ALWAYS fail to do true A/B tests. They either pretend such tests don't matter, or dig their heels in and say THEY heard a difference when they plugged the new dac in.
Finally, if they use "higher resolving headphones" they are definitely only hearing the sound signature of the headphones. And, what exactly does "higher resolving headphones" actually mean? Most of the time, these people pretend that really expensive headphones have more "resolution"--but that's simply not true.
Ultimately, when people tell you that you need better gear, that's their lazy way of saying they don't have any way of proving their claims, and you need to spend money you don't have. My advice would be to ignore those people, disregard such comments, and instead of wasting money on dacs and amps, experiment with headphones or IEMs--which absolutely and consistently have audible differences.
@@NoThemeReviews will need time to read...the truth is I will never be able to a/b test, my setup does not allow me. Am so curious if you were to review r2r or expensive nos dacs. I was skeptical at first and very worried because of the performance of the chord hugo2 as there was no difference with $100 sgrace. But I did not do a/b enough. But am still obsess in trying different combination. Still very stubborn to wanting to hear a difference
No Theme Reviews: another chinese audio product.
british headphone amps enter the conversation
I wish the British stuff wasn’t so expensive.
@@NoThemeReviews so true. something like quad, but they are also so good, IMO.
@@samgh7166 Aren't Quad manufactured in China? Even the design is spread all over the place. It has very little to with Britain.
@@griffofella740 almost everything is manufactured in china. quad together with wharfedale, audiolab and other british audio equipments are manufactured in china since 90's. but the design and quality control are still done by the source british companies. just look at the quad amps , they still share the same design language of old quad amps. I own quad s2 speakers and had the chance to test/listen to quad pa-one+ headphone amp. they are both very qualitative.
@@samgh7166 I find it difficult to say things are British when they are manufactured elsewhere.
I had the pleasure, a few years ago, of hearing a classic Quad system with their ESL57 speakers. It was sublime.
Why compare it only to shitty amps? You have quite some better gear over there - perhaps they would also sound the same to you?
None of these are "shitty" amps. They're all perfectly good. What exactly is your objection to the amps I used?
@@NoThemeReviews Let me rephrase. Schiit Magni is an excellent amp for the price. But you know they produce also more expensive stuff like Asgard and Jotunheim which judging from price should be better and also price wise would also be a better comparison against SMSL. So again, all the gear you have sound the same? If not then try to compare apples to apples otherwise you sound ridiculous. Or biased.
@Michal C First of all, price has nothing to do with sound. That's a false narrative. There is no truth to it whatsoever, and I'm tired of people using it as a crutch.
I have also never said that ALL the gear I have sounds the same. I have repeatedly spoken about gear that does have an audible difference upon A/B tests, and I've been particular about those differences. Off the top of my head, I’ve consistently talked about the audible differences among the THX Desktop and Portable, Tr-Amp, Dragonfly Red, Mojo, Hip Dac, Zen Dac, Micro iDSD, Jolida FX Dac, Woo WA7, FXAudio Dac X6, and others. Where do you get the idea that I believe all gear sounds exactly the same?
I'm concerned about your premise that just because I don't compare products you or others deem worthy that I'm "biased." You don't see the contradiction in that? So, I should compare products within their price category? Why would I ever do that? More to the point, what exactly is your evidence that price is a critical factor for a "fair" comparison?
Do yourself a favor: if you think there are differences among amps and dacs, then do actual A/B tests. And when others tell you one way or another--whether there are or are not differences--demand explanation of their testing parameters. I'm honest about my methods, and though not perfect, they are clear and repeatable by anyone. And if you disagree, then do real A/B tests and tell us why you disagree. Simply saying I used "shitty" gear or gear that you didn't personally approve is not particularly relevant to a discussion.
@@NoThemeReviews I have already addressed your remarks in my previous post while you seem referring to my first one. |So you either did not see or understand what I wrote. You can compare whatever you want even 10,000$ amp with 100$ amp or a motorcycle with a horse but if you want people to treat you seriously it must make sense. Otherwise you are confirming your bias or make impression that you prove a predetermined thesis.
seems to me that you just try to sound original or "expert" or more clever (whatever )saying the opposite of what all the other reviewers say. What is becoming boring are your montone reviews, not the amplifiers.
Happy new year to you too. Sadly, your perception of me is completely wrong. Instead of actually thinking about why I disagree with the audiofool market, you’d rather disregard what I say because others say something opposite. You do you. I’m quite happy not peddling bullshit, unlike “all the other reviewers” (who somehow can’t bring themselves to do simple volume matched A/B/X tests…how very telling). Enjoy your new year!
@@NoThemeReviews in my modest opinion calling audiofiools who has trained ears and can pick differences in the sound that you are not able to pick is just very disappointing and trust me you are not the only one doing a/b tests. Happy new year too
Ah yes, the golden ears argument. We’re all very lucky to have such unusually sensitive ears guiding us through the process. Too bad physiologically it’s impossible. I am one of very few people who does true A/B tests. The audiofools who claim to hear difference don’t, no matter how much they pretend stopping, swapping, then starting music is the same as what I and a few others do. I wish your favorite “reviewers” would put in the effort instead of push nonsensical myths easily and repeatedly disproven for decades. Anyway, why don’t you just spend more time listening to people who tell you what you want to hear, and stop ridiculing those of us who don’t. Seems like a better use of your time.