Just for the ease of comprehension for this Canadian, RP is my favourite. But I'm learning to hear the Cockney accent. MLE will take a lot more time and effort.
I prefer RP, but grew up mostly hearing something akin to Cockney, something _like Cockney_ or _an RP with the 'edges' roughened_ !! What I _hate most_ is the word for the letter 'h' / 'H' - _aitch_ mispronounced as "haitch" Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr😡😡😡😡 !! I can put up with 'F' instead of 'Th', as that mostly seems to be caused by physical changes re mouth / lips / tongue, but sometimes it's due to speech not being corrected as a child learns to speak. My son used to (when just a 'toddler') struggle saying "sh" and said instead "s" so would say sop instead of shop, but with _encouragement_ _and_ _practice_ he learned how to say 'shop' etc... For those who say the 'v' or "vv" sound instead of "th" (bruvver, muvver, etc) or "monf" instead of 'month' etc, I don't like to hear it, but _I_ have _no say_ in how others speak and thus will not make (verbalised) judgements - it's _not_ my place to do so, I merely accept this as fact. If this makes me "stuck up" / "a snob" / or overly "posh" ...so be it, I cannot help how I was raised, anymore than others who were not brought up to speak correctly, as I was. My (late) Mum would have hated how Londoners speak these days...but then, she always did, she was born in Scotland, lived in London as a small child but then raised by her Aunt in Suffolk, and hated London. She lived in London on and off through the era of WWII, (according to where she was billeted when she was a Sergeant in the Army) and after her marriage, but eventually, and (belatedly) for just three weeks before her eventual demise, she lived in Kent with my (now also late) half sister and her family... I think she liked Kent only slightly more than London, but aged 98 years (+ 7 months) she was in no position to move back to her beloved Suffolk. Whereas London is home to me, with all of its many and varied accents, some of which I like, others less so, but again ...not my business to teach others how to speak...!! Although I will offer corrections on misspellings via YT comments - like it or not!! (71 yo English female, SE.Londoner). 👍🙂🏴💜🇬🇧🤭🖖
My own observations, as someone who grew up in north London in 70s and 80s: The last two weren't RP. For one thing, the woman was speaking with an up-speak twang, which is not the same as the guy. The up-speak is an import from the US west coast. His was a much softer up speak, probably leaning towards old school sloane-ranger, or modern day wannabe sloane-ranger. That first guy's accent didn't exist in any great numbers when I was a kid in the 70s/80s. I literally never heard a single person speak like that in the 70s and 80s. Home was Hackney, Stoke Newington, but I know the areas towards Holloway, etc. That accent was not used by people from the West Indies, that was a very distinctive patois and sounded nothing like the MLE accent. The MLE accent he's using started to appear in the later 90s (Ali G parody in the late 90s was all about this accent).This MLE is a late 90s that pulls in some sounds from Jamaican patois. In my opinion. The east London "cockney" is much wider now and is heard in Essex, Herts and spread out of the cockney boundaries as people got richer in 80s and bought homes in the Home Counties. They're rarely actually cockney, in fact they're now 2/3 generations removed and have never set foot in East London. Your own comment about your accent is an interesting one. You lean towards MLE at points, which would support your point about depending on the situation. You're not clearly RP, up-speak or 'cockney' but you sound like you have learnt to enunciate well, so that's possibly either through your parents, or going to a good school. I wouldn't instinctively put you in the MLE or cockney camp.
Interesting points, grew up in the same kind of area but a bit later. You made some good points particularly about cockney being wider than the east end. I think if we went back 100 yrs it would be the working class accent of many in the south east. I will say that you may not hear an obvious connection between the West Indian accents you would of heard years ago and today's MLE but its definitely there. Its in the wording, intonation, grammar and sentence construction. If you don't speak it, it may go over your head. MLE was brought to the mainstream by parody by Ali G in the 90s but it existed before that. The jungle music scene of the late 80s married Jamaican Patois and Britishness- its an MLE treasure trove!😂
Born and grew up in West London, I moved (ironically) to the Caribbean in the early 80s and was surprised when I came back many years later to discover MLE. It wasn't a thing - at least in my neck of the woods - in my day (although I dare say it was already developing elsewhere), but now seems to be quite widespread. Cool. It's fascinating to see how aspects of various immigrant cultures become absorbed into the dominant culture, becoming part of it. I do think the glottal stop (Ts skipped in the middle of words like little or bottle) is a big part of the Cockney accent and should have been mentioned as such rather than just being ascribed to MLE. It doesn't seem to be a feature of the part of the Caribbean I live in (Trinidad and Tobago), although I can't speak for Jamaica - maybe it's common there. Anyway, minor quibble about an otherwise interesting video.
Language is always changing throughout history , Slang is a huge factor in the way that language has changed over the years , The amount of French words that are in the English language " Cul de sac " , Saviour , Perfume " the list goes on . TV shows like " Eastenders " and " Only Fools and horses " had an effect on how a lot of people " mostly not from London " started to talk like they came from London , When really they came from the suburbs , But most of the slang comes from the " Youth " but they in time will be the older generation ............. And their children will come up with words of their own , Its all one Big melting pot ....And there"s nothing wrong with that . ....... Great Vid ,
Love this perspective. It’s funny you should say that because I have met younger folks from places like Burnley who have adopted MLE from London and out their own spin on it.
Thanks for the comment. The card is already placed. I think sometimes it shows and on other occasions it doesn’t. If you watch video on the TV and or on your phone’s web browser instead of the actual RUclips app it may not show up.
Just as 'Cockney' spread more widely in the south and south east, I detect signs that MLE is spreading beyond London. Within it, I occasionally hear people who code switch between MLE and RP which , originally coming from a working class northern background, I think is hilarious.
Unpopular opinion: I believe black people have a different tone of voice (might be to do with larynx/vocal cords etc…) There’s certain pitches and tones of how we say the exact same word cockney person would say. Also I’ve noticed South Asian have a different spin on their MLE accent
Yeah, my accent slides about all over the place depending who I'm talking to - not helped by growing up with one mum from South Africa, and one a Cockney who very quickly lost her accent when she went to uni because people assumed she was thick - I default to a modified less posh RP for most situations. My niece literally asked one time where I grew up, and was confused when I said 'London... like your mum' - 'But you have a really different accent to her and to dad!' - they have more of an Essex twang I encounter a lot around some of the outer suburbs
I am not saying the accent originates from London, I am saying it is a popular accent amongst Londoners. Also to my knowledge, posh is not a defined accent. So with that being said the two people in the RP clip would be in the upper Received Pronunciation category which still falls into the RP bucket. As with all three accents shown I chose to use extremes. The MLE example was an extreme case of MLE, cockney example was an extreme case of cockney and RP was a more stiff upper RP. It’s RUclips so sometimes extremes do better to illustrate points.
Good video. I'm from herne Hill but now live in Australia. What people don't realise even in your local area your accent changes. I was talking to this woman who was from dulwich and not surrounding areas just buy her accent, it wasn't the posh dulwich accent she had. It's what we called the upper working class south London accent. It's funny
I lived in Miami for almost 6 years and I would say your statement is partially true. In my experience many of them do know the difference between cockney and Received Pronunciation. But the MLE accent believe or not is not on everyone’s radar. That has changed dramatically though post 2018/2019.
@@Patricio_Marcel It`s not difficult to find many locations in London where the locals all sound like they are on the "Eastenders" set.....Cor Blimey...Luv a duck....Me Owd Cock Sparra...Up the Apples and Pears...etc ad infinitum.
But yes I definitely have a mixture of the free accents myself.As well But when it comes to portuguese, on definitely 100% Portuguese from 🇵🇹 🇵🇹 But you 100% Brasileiro🇧🇷🇧🇷 But I am definitely very excited that you're learning portuguese Anyhu Keep it up And du lingual is rubbish 100%
"Depending on the context" - exactly. I'm not sure if it's conscious or not but I either grew up in "South London" or "Surrey" depending on who I happen to be up talking to (But after a few... it's usually Saarf London).
@@louleg23 I really _don't_ like the "sarf Lundun" accent. It's assumed - wrongly - that everyone south of the Thames speaks (or rather, talks / "torks") that way, but here in SE.London, we do not. We _can_ - & _do_ say 'South London' correctly and we do _not_ "tork like dat"here. I was born in SE13, moved to SE4 when I was six - in 1959 - (then, lived and worked in, to, & from SE5: to SE6, North West Kent, and East Sussex) between 1978 & 1986, before moving three times - between 1986 to 2012, to and within SE6, where I am now...and during all of my (so far) 71 years, I have _never_ adopted, or adapted to the 'dreaded' "Sarf Lundun" accent...!! (🥺 Sorry folks) (E♥️🇨🇦'88... (...🏴P💙😥*_&_🏴M♥️😥*'92...) ...T♥️🏴_&_J💙🏴'93) 🖖🏴💜🇬🇧🖖...My family...🖖🏴💜🇬🇧🖖 (my lost*😥💙💔😥♥️💔 twins* R.I.P.x2 Philip* aged 6_hours & his twin sister Marianne* aged 12_hours, 16**/01/1992).
@@brigidsingleton1596 I think the point is the accent always changes over time - it's not a value judgement, it's just what we become used to. The 'Sarf London' accent of my youth I referred to is out of date by now I expect. I grew up in a particular area in the 80s. When I go back there now, the accent is very different amongst the *younger* generation and that's fascinating. It's the youth culture that drives the change in accents I think and likely always has done. If you're not living on a desert island, accents will change.
I do feel rather saddened that many London accents have been formed from external influences in recent decades. I feel I am alienated from the place I was born in as my voice does not it in with these definitions yet I am a true Londoner.
Interesting take. What’s causing you to feel alienated? Have you actively tried to mix with other groups? Or do you expect them to want to mix with you? If it’s the latter, I doubt it’ll happen.
WTF is a true Londoner? I'm here for people self identifying but I don't think this person understands how history and anthropology works. The London accent and English language in general has constantly evolved due to migration over significant periods of time, even when the migrants were white, believe it or not! 😂 Nobody owns words and having a preference for people talking your accent says a lot about someone. Some folks only see things from the perspective of self🤷🏾♀️
London had ALWAYS been influenced by external influences. You don't think Yiddish, Bengali, Arabic, Irish accents had an influence on London accents and words in the late 1900s and early 20th Century? If you feel alienated, its because you have alienated yourself
Am I even allowed to explain that the dramatic alteration in the composition of the London population has meant changes of such rapidity that has not been experienced in any culture previously? This is statistically evidenced and would be appreciated in any other country but England.
Which London accent is your favorite?
COCKNEYYYYYY
Just for the ease of comprehension for this Canadian, RP is my favourite. But I'm learning to hear the Cockney accent. MLE will take a lot more time and effort.
I prefer RP, but grew up mostly hearing something akin to Cockney, something _like Cockney_ or _an RP with the 'edges' roughened_ !!
What I _hate most_ is the word for the letter 'h' / 'H' - _aitch_ mispronounced as "haitch" Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr😡😡😡😡 !!
I can put up with 'F' instead of 'Th', as that mostly seems to be caused by physical changes re mouth / lips / tongue, but sometimes it's due to speech not being corrected as a child learns to speak.
My son used to (when just a 'toddler') struggle saying "sh" and said instead "s" so would say sop instead of shop, but with _encouragement_ _and_ _practice_ he learned how to say 'shop' etc...
For those who say the 'v' or "vv" sound instead of "th" (bruvver, muvver, etc) or "monf" instead of 'month' etc, I don't like to hear it, but _I_ have _no say_ in how others speak and thus will not make (verbalised) judgements - it's _not_ my place to do so, I merely accept this as fact.
If this makes me "stuck up" / "a snob" / or overly "posh" ...so be it, I cannot help how I was raised, anymore than others who were not brought up to speak correctly, as I was.
My (late) Mum would have hated how Londoners speak these days...but then, she always did, she was born in Scotland, lived in London as a small child but then raised by her Aunt in Suffolk, and hated London.
She lived in London on and off through the era of WWII, (according to where she was billeted when she was a Sergeant in the Army) and after her marriage, but eventually, and (belatedly) for just three weeks before her eventual demise, she lived in Kent with my (now also late) half sister and her family...
I think she liked Kent only slightly more than London, but aged 98 years (+ 7 months) she was in no position to move back to her beloved Suffolk.
Whereas London is home to me, with all of its many and varied accents, some of which I like, others less so, but again
...not my business to teach others how to speak...!! Although I will offer corrections on misspellings via YT comments - like it or not!!
(71 yo English female, SE.Londoner).
👍🙂🏴💜🇬🇧🤭🖖
West London.... all day everyday! 😀
West London is not an accent in the video 😅
Great video, this channel will blow up soon for sure. Love this content!
🙏
My own observations, as someone who grew up in north London in 70s and 80s: The last two weren't RP. For one thing, the woman was speaking with an up-speak twang, which is not the same as the guy. The up-speak is an import from the US west coast. His was a much softer up speak, probably leaning towards old school sloane-ranger, or modern day wannabe sloane-ranger. That first guy's accent didn't exist in any great numbers when I was a kid in the 70s/80s. I literally never heard a single person speak like that in the 70s and 80s. Home was Hackney, Stoke Newington, but I know the areas towards Holloway, etc. That accent was not used by people from the West Indies, that was a very distinctive patois and sounded nothing like the MLE accent. The MLE accent he's using started to appear in the later 90s (Ali G parody in the late 90s was all about this accent).This MLE is a late 90s that pulls in some sounds from Jamaican patois. In my opinion.
The east London "cockney" is much wider now and is heard in Essex, Herts and spread out of the cockney boundaries as people got richer in 80s and bought homes in the Home Counties. They're rarely actually cockney, in fact they're now 2/3 generations removed and have never set foot in East London.
Your own comment about your accent is an interesting one. You lean towards MLE at points, which would support your point about depending on the situation. You're not clearly RP, up-speak or 'cockney' but you sound like you have learnt to enunciate well, so that's possibly either through your parents, or going to a good school. I wouldn't instinctively put you in the MLE or cockney camp.
Appreciate the comment and welcome to the channel.
Interesting points, grew up in the same kind of area but a bit later. You made some good points particularly about cockney being wider than the east end. I think if we went back 100 yrs it would be the working class accent of many in the south east.
I will say that you may not hear an obvious connection between the West Indian accents you would of heard years ago and today's MLE but its definitely there. Its in the wording, intonation, grammar and sentence construction. If you don't speak it, it may go over your head. MLE was brought to the mainstream by parody by Ali G in the 90s but it existed before that. The jungle music scene of the late 80s married Jamaican Patois and Britishness- its an MLE treasure trove!😂
Born and grew up in West London, I moved (ironically) to the Caribbean in the early 80s and was surprised when I came back many years later to discover MLE. It wasn't a thing - at least in my neck of the woods - in my day (although I dare say it was already developing elsewhere), but now seems to be quite widespread. Cool. It's fascinating to see how aspects of various immigrant cultures become absorbed into the dominant culture, becoming part of it. I do think the glottal stop (Ts skipped in the middle of words like little or bottle) is a big part of the Cockney accent and should have been mentioned as such rather than just being ascribed to MLE. It doesn't seem to be a feature of the part of the Caribbean I live in (Trinidad and Tobago), although I can't speak for Jamaica - maybe it's common there. Anyway, minor quibble about an otherwise interesting video.
Great point, I should have also ascribed the missing "T" to Cockney. Perhaps food for thought for a future video!
I love this! Haven’t seen someone black break down the MLE accent like that, subbed already 🎉
Much appreciated and thanks for the comment 🙏
Language is always changing throughout history , Slang is a huge factor in the way that language has changed over the years , The amount of French words that are in the English language " Cul de sac " , Saviour , Perfume " the list goes on . TV shows like " Eastenders " and " Only Fools and horses " had an effect on how a lot of people " mostly not from London " started to talk like they came from London , When really they came from the suburbs , But most of the slang comes from the " Youth " but they in time will be the older generation ............. And their children will come up with words of their own , Its all one Big melting pot ....And there"s nothing wrong with that . ....... Great Vid ,
Love this perspective. It’s funny you should say that because I have met younger folks from places like Burnley who have adopted MLE from London and out their own spin on it.
Reminder to place the end card for your 24 hour Spanish in London video
Thanks for the comment. The card is already placed. I think sometimes it shows and on other occasions it doesn’t. If you watch video on the TV and or on your phone’s web browser instead of the actual RUclips app it may not show up.
Great and insightful video
Much appreciated!
Great video. I’m more RP, but when I chat to my brothers, we slip into a hybrid of cockney and RP
Glad you enjoyed it and completely understandable!
Just as 'Cockney' spread more widely in the south and south east, I detect signs that MLE is spreading beyond London. Within it, I occasionally hear people who code switch between MLE and RP which , originally coming from a working class northern background, I think is hilarious.
👍
I struggled so much when I first moved here! But you get used to it once you learn the language properly
Glad you figured it out in the end!
I use RP when I'm on the phone to strangers and switch between cockney and MLE with family and freinds.
I feel you on that one. You think it’s a habit you built by subconsciously watching your elders when growing up?
Unpopular opinion: I believe black people have a different tone of voice (might be to do with larynx/vocal cords etc…)
There’s certain pitches and tones of how we say the exact same word cockney person would say. Also I’ve noticed South Asian have a different spin on their MLE accent
Yeah, my accent slides about all over the place depending who I'm talking to - not helped by growing up with one mum from South Africa, and one a Cockney who very quickly lost her accent when she went to uni because people assumed she was thick - I default to a modified less posh RP for most situations. My niece literally asked one time where I grew up, and was confused when I said 'London... like your mum' - 'But you have a really different accent to her and to dad!' - they have more of an Essex twang I encounter a lot around some of the outer suburbs
Super interesting. It is amazing to see how cultural influences, travel, work and immigration impact our accents.
Ahhhhhh, but were you born within the sounds of the Bow Bells?
RP is more from the home counties/suburbs - neither of those last 2 speakers were RP - they were posh
I am not saying the accent originates from London, I am saying it is a popular accent amongst Londoners.
Also to my knowledge, posh is not a defined accent. So with that being said the two people in the RP clip would be in the upper Received Pronunciation category which still falls into the RP bucket. As with all three accents shown I chose to use extremes. The MLE example was an extreme case of MLE, cockney example was an extreme case of cockney and RP was a more stiff upper RP. It’s RUclips so sometimes extremes do better to illustrate points.
@@Patricio_Marcel Danny Dyer sounds posh to me pal
Good video.
I'm from herne Hill but now live in Australia.
What people don't realise even in your local area your accent changes.
I was talking to this woman who was from dulwich and not surrounding areas just buy her accent, it wasn't the posh dulwich accent she had.
It's what we called the upper working class south London accent.
It's funny
Appreciate the comment. Has your accent adapted again now you’ve moved to Australia?
When I was younger and probably more so for my parent's generation, you could really tell the difference between north and south of the river.
Funny enough, I’ve always thought the MLE is the main accent in London but that’s probably due to the area I live in etc
MLE?!
This is why I struggle with my spelling. Sounding it out & everything 😎❤️💛💚🖤✊🏿🇯🇲🏴
All I am saying is thank God for autocorrect 😂😂
Most Americans think that Londoners all talk as if they are starring in Mary Poppins...
I lived in Miami for almost 6 years and I would say your statement is partially true. In my experience many of them do know the difference between cockney and Received Pronunciation. But the MLE accent believe or not is not on everyone’s radar. That has changed dramatically though post 2018/2019.
@@Patricio_Marcel It`s not difficult to find many locations in London where the locals all sound like they are on the "Eastenders" set.....Cor Blimey...Luv a duck....Me Owd Cock Sparra...Up the Apples and Pears...etc ad infinitum.
DO SCOUSEEEE NEXT
Scouse? That's another city almost up the other end of the country! 😳😉
I luuuhv liverpeeeewl
South/ south east London defiantly has a strong patois twang
💯
Id say yrs is MLE just a little refine
Agreed
Pass me a bo(tt)le of wa(t)er!
Haha classic.
OK until one rings a large company and gets an impossible garble in reply
Which accent are you referring to?
@@Patricio_Marcel I was expecting an English accent ,but I could not tell you what it was .
The acxents all sound pretty much the same it's just the word choices/dialects are different
Interesting perspective, honestly I’ve never heard that before.
@@Patricio_Marcel
I'm not from London that's why they sound almost the same to me lol
Tudo bem Meu amigo Eu concordo com tu
Obrigado pelo comentário amigo.
But yes I definitely have a mixture of the free accents myself.As well But when it comes to portuguese, on definitely 100% Portuguese from 🇵🇹 🇵🇹 But you 100% Brasileiro🇧🇷🇧🇷 But I am definitely very excited that you're learning portuguese Anyhu Keep it up And du lingual is rubbish 100%
Welcome to the channel man! I’ll definitely be dropping more Portuguese content soon!
"Depending on the context" - exactly. I'm not sure if it's conscious or not but I either grew up in "South London" or "Surrey" depending on who I happen to be up talking to (But after a few... it's usually Saarf London).
@@louleg23
I really _don't_ like the "sarf Lundun" accent.
It's assumed - wrongly - that everyone south of the Thames speaks (or rather, talks / "torks") that way, but here in SE.London, we do not. We _can_ - & _do_ say 'South London' correctly and we do _not_ "tork like dat"here. I was born in SE13, moved to SE4 when I was six - in 1959 - (then, lived and worked in, to, & from SE5: to SE6, North West Kent, and East Sussex) between 1978 & 1986, before moving three times - between 1986 to 2012, to and within SE6, where I am now...and during all of my (so far) 71 years, I have _never_ adopted, or adapted to the 'dreaded' "Sarf Lundun" accent...!! (🥺 Sorry folks)
(E♥️🇨🇦'88...
(...🏴P💙😥*_&_🏴M♥️😥*'92...)
...T♥️🏴_&_J💙🏴'93)
🖖🏴💜🇬🇧🖖...My family...🖖🏴💜🇬🇧🖖
(my lost*😥💙💔😥♥️💔 twins* R.I.P.x2
Philip* aged 6_hours & his twin sister Marianne* aged 12_hours, 16**/01/1992).
Cool story dude, thanks for the comment but what is the dreaded South London accent? There is not a singular accent which defines South London....
@@Patricio_Marcel
I'm not a "dude"! The "Sarf* Lundun" accent is the one I detest.
The clue's* there in front of you!
(F'🦆's sake!! 🥺)
@@brigidsingleton1596 I think the point is the accent always changes over time - it's not a value judgement, it's just what we become used to. The 'Sarf London' accent of my youth I referred to is out of date by now I expect. I grew up in a particular area in the 80s. When I go back there now, the accent is very different amongst the *younger* generation and that's fascinating. It's the youth culture that drives the change in accents I think and likely always has done. If you're not living on a desert island, accents will change.
I do feel rather saddened that many London accents have been formed from external influences in recent decades. I feel I am alienated from the place I was born in as my voice does not it in with these definitions yet I am a true Londoner.
Interesting take. What’s causing you to feel alienated? Have you actively tried to mix with other groups? Or do you expect them to want to mix with you? If it’s the latter, I doubt it’ll happen.
*🥱
WTF is a true Londoner? I'm here for people self identifying but I don't think this person understands how history and anthropology works.
The London accent and English language in general has constantly evolved due to migration over significant periods of time, even when the migrants were white, believe it or not! 😂
Nobody owns words and having a preference for people talking your accent says a lot about someone.
Some folks only see things from the perspective of self🤷🏾♀️
London had ALWAYS been influenced by external influences. You don't think Yiddish, Bengali, Arabic, Irish accents had an influence on London accents and words in the late 1900s and early 20th Century? If you feel alienated, its because you have alienated yourself
Am I even allowed to explain that the dramatic alteration in the composition of the London population has meant changes of such rapidity that has not been experienced in any culture previously? This is statistically evidenced and would be appreciated in any other country but England.
Was the third one a gay accent?
No, as the video states it’s called Received Pronunciation.