Ludwig Legacy Maple vs. Classic Maple
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2018
- The kits in this video are set up differently, as I use them for different purposes. Try to listen critically through the different heads and dampening for 3 things: shell attack, shell tone, and dynamic range.
My review of the Ludwig Classic Maple kit: • An honest reveal of th...
My review of the Ludwig Legacy Maple kit:
• Ludwig Legacy Maple Ki...
Many people have contacted me asking me to share with them the difference between the Ludwig Classic Maple, and the Ludwig Legacy Maple. In this video you can hear the difference in a side by side comparison. Don't let the difference in drum size, and head type throw you off. Clearly the Classic Maple has more bite, and cut. For me this works great for recording allowing the drums to slice through the mix. The Legacy Maple is warm and round, and very musical.
Another major difference that won't be heard so much in the video is the Classic Maple has a wider dynamic range, but takes a bit more oomph to get it to speak. The Legacy Maple does not get as loud, and speaks nicely when played softly (when tuned up as in the video).
www.JaredRibble.com
If you want to make a comparison of the 2 kits they both need to have same kind of drumheads and with the same tension of all heads between the two kits - otherwise you cannoit make anything like a comparison at all!
And same size for that matter. Having said that, the sharper sound from the Classic proves advantageous in that you can always resort to dampening to “warm” the sound. Whereas, the Legacy cannot produce the brighter sound so it’s limited in that aspect.
right.
Agreed. This video shows no comparison at all.
Exactly, they were about as different as they could be, completely pointless.
Classic maple guy for more than 25 years. The sound has never disappointed me.
???...Classic Maple came out in 1998. You wrote this in 2018. How do you get 25 years from a drum that had only been around for 20 years at that time? You must've owned a 4 or 6 ply shell for 5 years before that. Those weren't Classic Maple shells, regardless of what was written on the box they came in.
To do a fair comparison I think it should’ve been the same tuning and heads...
Both sound great
That was really helpful to hear the difference between the sharp 45 bearing edge and the rounded edge, as well as difference in drumhead styles. Thanks!
Jesse Nelson glad you see the point of the video! Two great kits that I use for different purposes.
My vote is for the Legacy!!! Wish I could afford them right now.
I can still here the differences in overall vibe despite heads, sizes etc - good video!
Man, that legacy kick growls! Love it!
Excellent comparison.
Thats a lot of editing, setup, syncing etc. Great job very good work.
Charlie Wilson not the easiest to do, so I appreciate you noticing. I’m hoping it’s helping drummers make a decision between the two kits. Both are great, but I feel serve different sonic tastes and purposes.
Great stuff! Too bad the heads were different on each kit. Just my two cents..Maybe in the future, try comparing the kits with the same heads and same tuning to really hear the difference in the shells.
Joe Nocella thanks for the comment. I certainly considered this fact. The truth of the matter is the day I put this together was the only available in my schedule. The next day I needed the Classic set up with those heads for a session coming in, and I didn’t have time to wait on my Evans order to arrive to change out the Legacy heads from the factory ones. I’m hoping people can listen through these differences to the shell tone and attack. Plus, listening to the different styles on each kit might help a viewer determine which kit might work for their playing. For instance my swing isn’t as good on the Classic with those sizes and head choice. Maybe this will help the viewer looking for a kit for small combo dates to hear this wouldn’t be the right choice. Alternatively, if someone hears the round attack of the Legacy, they might realize this isn’t a good fit for cutting through a dense electric guitar mix.
Poplar helps giving the shell a dark sound but the legacy is well known for the reinforcement hoops on the inside and the low end they produce, that’s why people like to buy old ludwigs because they sound better! overall good comparison my friend!
Good stuff
Would be nice to hear the classic maple with thinner heads, ambassadors or even diplomats, and then see what you can get out of them.
Yes exactly
Great video. Each kit was tuned and set up perfectly for their respective applications! I love so many things about each kit. I can see why you own both. Also, those hihats sound gorgeous. What are they?
You get it! Thanks for understanding I need these kits set up differently. I don't want to have two kits that are similar sounding, as there would be no point. The Hats are old Sabians. I do not know if they are a specific product line.
Legacy Maple has a nice warmer feel.
Classic maple for me.
absolutely!
Buddy sure sounded great with the Classic Maple 6-Ply shells when he played with the Boston Pops Orchestra!
@@iddrumco Those 6-ply drums had the popular in the center and a slightly rounder edge. They sound great.
I have a 24" classic maple bass drum with a clear powerstroke 3 head and I've never heard a better bass drum sound in my life. The tone is perfection.
I bet it sounds fantastic, but never forget it's the player that makes the drum sound great. Kudos to you!
I thought, even though the kits were set up differently, the way you did the comparison was great...playing each piece simply, editing between the 2, and building from there.
Of course they both sound great. I have both and for MOST applications i prefer the classic. On your comparison, i prefer the classics because of the punch. I like using the 3 ply shells when i tune higher. They get a very funky retro tone. Great demo. Thanks
A footnote; when i do use the same heads and similar tuning, in a small area they sound very similar. In larger places, i dont have enough data💜
I really like those Evans clear heads on the toms on the 'Classic' kit. Also like the '56 Calftone batter head on the snare drum in the 'Classic' kit..I have Calftone batter heads on two of my wood-shell snare drums really like the sound and feel. The 20" bass drum in the 'Legacy' kit could use a small bit of muffling but that's just my taste. Both kits sound good though.
If the sizes of the drums are the same ? They should be tuned the same for a comparison video shouldn't they ? Also the same type of heads I would think. I love Ludwig though. HUGE fan of both these sets. Thanks for the post.
Both great kits..I am stunned at how much the Classics sound like my Neusonics.
i would go with the classic maple.
Thanks for sharing.
Legacy sounds beautiful
You should do a low tuning example for the Legacy. I've got an old club date and this shell formula and bearing edge, you can get these really low singing with out flapping out. I'd like to hear CM in this test because with the 45 edge, I guessing you get more head flap sounds and not the low end rumble of the rounded-30s, it's what these shells want to to do.
Legacy all the way for me. May I ask what ride cymbal are you using?
The ride is an Istanbul Agop Vezir ride. 21" maybe? For some time I was an endorser of their cymbals.
I get the fact about the classic kit not being appropriate for the symphony hall, but man...it was hard to listen to the legacy kick drum wide open like that. It just bled over everything and was annoying more than anything. Plus, the different heads and tuning, as you mentioned, don’t really make this a comparison at all. Not sure what the purpose of this video was??????
Thanks for your comment, and I think it is completely fair. Because the kits are set up so differently, I did think twice about putting them up side by side like the way I did. I just got the Legacy from Ludwig. But when I was doing some test recording with the kits side by side, I was really astonished at how different the shell tone was, along with the different attack due to the different cuts of the bearing edge. Would you be willing to do me the honor of going back and listening to the video with a different mind set? Listen through the different tuning and head choice to the tone of the shells. Listen critically to the attack of the shells. They are very different. Shoot me a reply and let me know what you think. Thanks, Clint!
Hey man,
Yes, they do have different tonal qualities for sure. I have had both classic maple and a vintage 3 ply kit and they are different animals for sure. Both very cool and useful. I recently sold a Q drum company mahogany kit, not happening for me, and am awaiting a classic maple kit again after many years of playing other brands. That’s why I clicked on this video.....to see the difference between the classics and legacy since I was torn between the two. For my application, the classic maples work out best. Thanks for the kind reply, no disrespect meant in my post, I see where you’re coming from now.
think the heads had more to do with that?
A truly bogus comparison
with same sized heads and same tuning these kits would sound mostly the same. It's really the bearing edge, rims, and heads that make the most impact on sound. Ludwig brought back the legacy because poplar wood is a popular "vintage" wood and vintage is in. It's also much, much cheaper than Maple which is why drum manufacture's sandwiched it between hard rock maple for thickness back in the day. Not because it had any effect on sound.
Would be nice to see an actual comparison where the drum sizes, tuning and heads were the same for both kits. I would venture that the Classic Maple sounds more like a "modern" kit and the Legacy has a more vintage sound. To me, the "modern" kits like Yamaha and DW both sound very good, but they don't have the uniqueness of the original 3 ply Ludwig. You can play the Clasic Ludwig, Yamaha, or DW and they will all sound very good, but perhaps a bit more "generic" in that you might not be able to tell one from the other. But, personally, my ear always picks up the sound of the classic 3 ply of the vintage kits and the Legacy.
That Legacy bass drum sounds like an old Roland 808. That was crazy!
Yeah, that was straight out of the box tuned up a bit. At this point, I have dampened it up a bit.
I got my first Ludwig Classic Maple set 17 years ago on an even money trade for a Roland TD-10. Best move I've ever made!!! I love that Ludwig sound!!!
Having said that, I like both sounds, though I generally prefer minimal muting. I would love to hear that legacy with that kick loosened up a bit and some gating to tame that sustain down just a hair...
Comparing different sizes different heads different tuning ?
What is best for articulation of complex fingering on ALL drums? I want to be convinced that with Legacy I would be able to play flam-dragged rat-a-ma-cues on the floor toms and the audience would be able to discern every note. I think the next level comparison will require more complex technical application of all or most essential rudiments. Doubles, triples, flams, drags, accented patterns, buzz rolls, back sticking, etc. I need to make a decision and I'd like to avoid buyer's remorse. :D
You got pocket dude big up
Null and Void. You could play the same set with the different heads, and the same set would sound different. Re-do please?
What is the muffling on the classic maple set?
For bass drum muffling, I use a pillow case with t-shirts inside it. This way, I can vary the amount of muffling I need for any given situation. Need more? Add more t-shirts. Need less? Take some t-shirts out.
Hey does anyone know what kind of cymbals he’s using?
The hihats are Sabian - old. 14" and I cannot tell what specific product line. They are similar to Zild. A's but Sabian line. The Ride is an Istanbul Agop Vezir - I think 21".
It seems to me it wouldn't have been too much trouble to take out the muflling on the Classic kit , and change the heads so they were the same. All that said... I'd go with the Legacy..... but I like and open sound and a higher tuning....
Carl Upthegrove I understand what you are suggesting. I had a session the following day that required this kit to be set up in the manner it was. BUT, check out my other video of this same kit straight out of the box from Ludwig “honest reveal of the classic maple”. In that video I show the thinner heads and no muffling in the kit, straight from the factory in Monroe.
Why muffling on the classic maple snare.
I own an 85 classic black. Painted on piano black finish. Such an amazing full rock/jazz sound. When I die I want to be rolled up and be buried in the bass. Oh I am 51 been playing since 7. Trained till dropped. Just love them. Nothing compares for the music I play.
I can appreciate your enjoyment of the gear. Thanks for sharing!
Classic hands down for Rock/fusion. Legacy is definitely Jazz suited. The 24" classic bass drum with 18" floor tom punch will floor you! Lol.
How do you rate these, to vintage Ludwigs.
This is a great question, and my answer may feel as if I am dodging it. Bare with me. I have played many vintage Ludwig kits, and all are different. The kits from the 50's are different than those of the 60's, which are then different than the 70's. So, the question is what "vintage" era are you referring? Then, if you were to answer which era, I would still not be able to adequately describe because the longer a drum kit stays alive and useful, the tone and feel change based on its care and condition. Additionally, I find the moisture content of the wood to be a big factor in the sound of a kit, and depending on what climate the drums have been kept can dramatically change the sound and feel of the drums. Typically, I find even the most well maintained vintage kits to be a little thuddy, with shortened sustain, compared to their modern counterparts. The reason for this I tend to believe is due to the vintage hardware components. The old lugs, and mounting systems on the drums simply cut down on vibration, cutting the shell's potential tone and vibrancy. Vintage building technology I believe was a bit inconsistent, therefore the drums don't always age in the same way and conditions.
The reason I have concluded old technology hardware design, and drum condition is the main reasons vintage drums cannot be compared to the modern version is when I have played vintage Ludwig kits after having been restored using new lugs, mounting hardware (like vibrabands or atlas mounts), old wraps stripped off, and bearing edges cleaned up, the drums sound different. These restored and updated drums are more vibrant, and have a cleaner tone, allowing even more harmonics from the shell to present themselves. [drum roll please] Which is quite similar to the Legacy's being built in Monroe, NC factory today.
To land this plane - I do not think the Legacy sounds or plays like a vintage Ludwig, if it is even possible to define what vintage Ludwig sound is due to all the possible factors. I do think the Legacy kit sounds like a vintage Ludwig shell, after it has been cleaned up, and restored using modern technology hardware, and building methods.
If vintage Ludwig sound is what you are after, all generations can be found for sale all over the internet. But as you know, determining if that particular kit plays and sounds as you hope, can be a roll of the dice. The nice thing about the Legacy is the build quality is consistent, and the modern hardware allow the shell to be all it was meant to be from a vintage era.
Classic Maple hands down, but the other kit is very nice as well.
I don't care for the tuning, but the legacy sounds better to my ear.
Legacy maple sounds best to my ears
Classic Maple all the way....those kits can't be beaten
Dude hit em
lolz
You should put Calftone on the toms.
To my ear, the tones of the Legacy Maple kit are brighter, richer and fuller than the Classic Maple kit. And, I have always preferred my drums to be wide open with no muffling whenever possible with full, rich, bright tones. Other drummers prefer their drums with a more subdued tone, and I imagine that they would prefer the Classic Maple. I appreciate Jared Ribble for putting this video together. For the viewers that said that they don't understand the point, well some of us enjoy comparing the sounds of different drums, and I'm one that is included in that number.
Glad you like the video and got something out of it. I too enjoy exploring different drum sounds, and comparing.
With these heads, the Classic Maple had a bit more volume and sustain.
My preference.
I couldn't possibly have a clue, but I am choosing classic. Though I can ruin both sets the same
I have to go with classic m
Legacy over Classic, it is the original.
Yep
the only thing i get from this vid is the difference in how a kit is set up for jazz vs how a kit is set up for rock or country, sadly the shell differences just arent something i can make a decision on considering the huge differences in tuning and skins.
I understand your point. I am hoping the viewer will see that if they are looking to get a new kit and their playing situations require them to play softer/jazz combo, they might prefer the sound of the Legacy. If the musician is playing louder styles of music - country/pop/rock which need to cut through a mix of thick guitars, etc., they likely will want to zero in on the classic maple. The Legacy has little cut to its sound. But this video is certainly not a direct comparison as I am not in a position to own two different kits set up exactly the same (exact tom sizes, exact head choices, etc.) just for the sake of comparison. I need the different kits because I need different sounds, and have specific uses for them.
Legacy has more of a vintage sound,
Which Bosphorus ride are you using.
The ride is an Istanbul Agop Vezir ride. For some time I had endorsed their cymbals.
Huge Ludwig fan but i really don't like the way these kits sound here. Great video though and i can appreciate both kits but if i had too choose between them it would be the Legacy, luckily you dont have too.
Yeah, I think that the classic maple sounds better close mic'd (and I already have that kit set up to sound better close mic'd in the studio) Therefore the two overhead mic's aren't doing it justice. I personally think that the kick and snare of the Classic Maple sound pretty good for no EQ/Compression. But those drums are close mic'd. The toms sound is just coming from the overheads. What is interesting to me is that the Legacy Maple sounds really great with the overhead mics. For this video I left the Legacy as I received straight from the factory. The bass drum of the Legacy is way too big sounding in the recording, but I was trying to leave it as I received it from the factory. Where as the classic maple I already have the drum tweaked for recording rock/country.
Jared Ribble I listened with some better headphones and now i can hear what you are trying to demonstrate. Great video thanks for the response.
Maple can have unwieldy transients -Putting re rings on the shells ( legacy) mutes them a bit -The classic drums have more attack the legacy’s have less in nutshell
I agree, for sure. Thanks for watching.
2:21 Iron Man
😂
I like the classic maple. It would fit me perfectly.
I dont get the comparison.
You claim (and you should) that the two kits are tuned completely different, undamped, different heads. So why not doing a comparison when you put them side by side with the closest optimization? You did good measuring the exact space between the mics for this video - so id actually love to here a comparison like this when the kits actually lean towards the same common ground...
Although i liked the video and both sound awesome. Cheers
para poder comparar los cuerpos deberian ser de tamaños similares
Change the heads and damping from one set to the other, and that same set will sound entirely different. What kind of comparison review was this?
Legacy on the toms and kick all day. Maple snare all day
I can't say that the classic maple kick sounded that lifeless in person, unless purposely muffled that way.
Classic Maple has more range and volume for variety.
Classic Maple.
Legacy!
Classic !!!
Take the legacy Maple toms and switch them to the other kit. And voila you have the perfect sound
Classic not even close on this one. Especially the bass drum
I like Evans EC2's
Ivan Bajović in the classic maple, the EC2s bring a lot of punch with a very nice Attack. Very good for recording rock and country styles.
I used Remo Pinstripes and switched to EC2's. I will never go back. Pinstripes are good also but gives some strange high overtones that I don't like. Sorry for my bad English. Cheers!
This is like comparing apples and pizza. Both great kits.
itchyvinyl Mmmmmmm...I like apples and pizza! Yes they are very different, and I’m hoping the video demonstrates this. I love the classic maple and have used them for years. I wish that I had a video like this the last time I was ordering a kit for the jazz vocalist I play for. I would not have had Ludwig make me a classic maple kit for that musical purpose. Rather I would have heard that I needed the sound of the Legacy. Thanks for watching.
Jared Ribble I have an early 2000s Classic Maple 13/16/22 (Purple sparkle 😬). I love it. It sounds Ludwiggy enough, but it can get loud and stupid punchy.
Oh, I'm sure it can get very loud, and Classic Maple has always been punchy for sure. The wood in the Legacy, and Classic Maple give both kits the availability to get punchy. The interesting thing to me doing the video was the difference in attack the bearing edge created in the kits.
What are the depths of your drums on the classic maple kit?
Wouldn't the comparison be more appropriate with both kits using the same tuning and heads ?
If the shell composition on both kits are different, then using the same heads and tuning shouldn't affect the comparison on both their differences.
Yes, your comment is a fair one, and many people on this thread have suggested the same. My issue is I use these kits for specific purposes, and I am not always afforded the time to unglue a sound I have dialed in with certain heads, just for a comparison. Case in point, the day after I shot this video, I had both these kits on recording sessions for different purposes. For me to get an order of heads in from Evans (or Ludwig for that matter) simply wasn't going to work for the schedule I have to keep with these kits. I am suggesting without saying it, these kits work best for specific styles. Hopefully it helps the viewer to make a decision which kit would be best for their playing style and musicality.
Jared....thanks for the comparison...appreciate it! They both sound great! The Classic Maples are more bang for the buck by a wide margin, so I hear....so one would assume at a much higher price break the Legacy's might sound better, richer, fuller, musical or something. Hard to say, since they both sound great. I agree with the Legacy bass drum comments. Regarding heads....I've tried many different heads in many different configurations for my Classic Maple jazz/bop kit (10, 14, 18) and to my ear Remo coated ambassadors sing the best. I typically use coated on batter side and I've used both clear and coated for reso. I am currently using coated for both batter and reso. I also have used a reverse dot (Controlled Sound). I've also tried Remo Emperor for batter and clear diplomats for reso. I've used Skyntone for both reso and batter on my kick (per the Drum Doctor). I have experimented around and now am using P3 Ambassador coated for batter on kick and P3 Ambassador Fiberskyn for kick reso (I've thrown a tee shirt in the kick also for good measure). I've tried both ported and un-ported (prefer un-ported) heads on reso. I've also tried Eveans heads. So many variables affecting the sound, but after much experimentation and expense, to my ear, everything else being equal...... for what it's worth.... Remo and my Ludwigs go hand-in-hand. Cheers! @@JaredRibble
Henwy2 you know, I have never put coated heads on the reso side. About a year ago I was drumming on a session and they brought in a Ludwig rental kit from Drum Paradise here in Nashville. Of course, any Ludwig kit Drum Paradise sets up is going to be amazing, and they had coated heads on the reso. Thanks for the reminder to give that a shot. I think it will be especially effective on the Classic Maple.
Jared....The coated reso heads are a recent experiment. I got that idea from Benny Grebb as was the P3 Fiberskyn reso. They both deliver a slightly mellower sound than clear reso...the P3 kick reso delivers a little more punch and less sustain. Thanks for the reply...look forward to more of your videos.
Classic maple sounds best!
Glad you like it. Both kits are serving their purpose for what I use them for. Hope this helps those trying to make a decision between the two kits.
L E G A C Y...!!!
Gotta go classic
Two very different turnings with very different heads..not very helpful but still enjoyed the drums. Nice sound
I like the bass drum on the legacy. The rest of the drums are a draw for me.
Professional ? Me too !
LEGACY
Roy Beckerman yeah, it’s a pretty great sounding kit. I’ve had it out on the road now for some shows putting it through the paces. Again for my purposes, I am using it for venues where volume needs to be under control. I can dig into these drums a little more, and because the initial attack of the drums is shaved off slightly, the listener doesn’t experience the drums as loud.
I liked the legacy set better
The edge on a Classic Maple is not sharp, as you say in the video. It has a flattened top with a rounded chamfer on the outer edge. Only the inner edge is a 45, but the peak is flat, not sharp.
I appreciate your literal approach. Yes, the bearing edge does have a narrow area which is flat for the head to sit evenly against. This narrow band of flat edge is less surface space for the head to contact the shell, which results in a "sharper" edge when compared to the Legacy bearing edge.
I appreciate you taking the time to address my comment. I've owned a Classic Maple drumkit since 1999 and after that much time, I like to think I know my kit pretty well. I wouldn't call the flattened top a "narrow area" (although it could be that they're making that flat area smaller now than 19 years ago), but considering the overall size of the edge, the flattened top is fairly prominent. I don't recall you using the term comparatively, but regardless, anyone watching your video, and noticing your calling the Classic Maple's edge "sharp" is going to think exactly that....that the peak is comes to a sharp point and that is just not true.
Reinforcement rings.
I don’t know … the heads are 50% of what give any kit “their sound”.
In my opinion this is a skin comparison.
Great playing though!
I like the classic kit better, don’t care for the sound of the other bass drum, needs to be more muffled.
I was showing the Legacy straight out of the box from the factory allowing the viewer to get a glimpse of how these kits show up at your door. At this point, I have dampened the kick a touch to tame it down.
classic maple but the snare for me its legacy maple...
2:22 for sound demos
Well to much over tone on the second kit.
Especially the bass drum!
How is this a comparison at all?? One bass drum is muffled, one isn’t and you have completely different set of heads on either kit--. ?? It’s possible these kits both sound exactly the same!!! But there’s no way of telling with your “ Comparison”........
This is an apples to oranges "comparison", way too many variables to be accurately entitled "Ludwig Legacy Maple vs Classic Maple".
So you've essentially compared muffling and heads... Not the drums. Not very useful.
Todas desafinadas.
A bit long winded...should have made it shorter and more interesting.
Come on, man. Don't be like that. These guys worked their asses off to make this video.
Completely useless. Different Tunings, different heads, AND different sizes.... how can you make an objective comparison?
I wish you guys a demonstrate these drums with hit the damn drums instead of tapping it like a woman
blue dog Easy there partner...I think Sheila E. and Cindy Blackman would be offended that you compared my playing to theirs, although I will humbly accept your compliment. If you need harder hitting check out my other video featuring only the classic maple. That video I demonstrate both light hitting with a small stick and harder hitting with a big stick. The legacy kit in this video is simply not set up for hitting hard in the downbeat sizes tuned for symphony halls. I’ve played many an arena and can hit hard, but my current employment situation requires a different touch on the drums. If you need to hear what the Classic Maple sounds like when hit hard, check out some of the Sweetwater videos. He tends to show off a bit more, where I am very clearly showing only the sound of the drums.