** * PLEASE READ * ** After seeing certain suggestions repeated multiple times in the comment section, I decided to redo the test with slight modifications. Those modifications include: 1. Instead of using Waves Redd-17 (like in this video), I use Waves Redd-37 (which is apparently the model Shattered Glass Audio was copying.) 2. Gain staging is done at the start of the video. Same guitar sample is used for the test. 3. We verify that the output setting of 5db on Code Redd Free is the same as 0db on Waves Redd-37. In other words, both of the output settings in this video were set to the correct levels. 4. And lastly, both units are set to “LS” or “Linked Stereo” WATCH THE UPDATE HERE - ruclips.net/video/xuiCMZQVqs4/видео.html
I've been using the free one on several projects. Once you take care of proper gain staging with the input and output knobs the plug-in will not distort at all and really shines.
i agree with you on that, but i think this was just a comparison for the sake of this video. Of course you can all always play around with the Free one and get _that_ sound you're looking for, the thing with free plugins is that it takes more time to get there then the _expensive_ ones, but hey, i'm happy they still develop free stuff. :)
User manual (Code Red): "At low input signal levels and low Gain settings, preamplifier in Code Red Free operates in the “clean” regime. When operated in such conditions Code Red Free can be used to enrich the original sound by adding “warmth” (additional harmonics) to it. At high signal strengths and/or high Gain settings Code Red’s preamps can be pushed into overdrive and distortion." ...
thanks for the video! I haven't tried the free one, but I bought the REDD from Waves and wanted to suggest that people try it as a send and run vocals through it with the drive knob turned all the way up. great vocal saturation!
In my monitors the warm "horn" tones in your guitar track were brought out richer and sweeter than in the Waves version. I didn't hear anything breaking up on either, and the Waves sounded kind of thin to me. Usually I'd probably lean toward thinner in the mix, but the free one actually sounded more "round" in the bottom when you pushed it, which sounds more like the response of that class of physical hardware to my ears. I own both plugs; and now you have inspired me to play around with them. Thanks for posting. Nice to meet you!
I don't know anything about Code Red, but that POP in white under the low end shelf EQ looks like they were modelling the REDD 51 instead of the 17. The Waves Redd 51 has that POP, which adds a 5k boost to the high shelf eq (so like a bell at 5k and shelf at 10k, I believe, instead of just the shelf which is all the 17 has). So this doesn't seem like a true 1 to 1 comparison. Regardless, it was interesting to see the two plugs put against each other. Thanks for doing this!
Thank you for the comparison. Isn't the Code Red Free calibrated to work as hardware i.e. if you hit it with more than -18 dB it will tend to distort? I think the idea is to hit it with max -18 dB and then you can drive the plugin a little by lifting the input on the Code Red Free itself. This way you should not get the distortion you get in your example. If you drive the plugin too hard (i.e. push the needle on the VU meter too far above zero) you will get distortion. In other words the Code Red Free might work in a bit of a different way compared to the Waves plugin...
That's the same thing I was thinking! I know the Waves version has an adjuster for the meter to keep it in line with the particular dbu vs dbfs scaling that is being used.
Waves stays brightened, either in highs lows. The freeware is probably going to sound VERY Close after adjusting whatever the Waves compressor is set to. For the most part? it's the same attenuation -- but, the warmth goes to Waves -- NO QUESTION. Thank You for this most informative demonstration... helps out on out side. Thank You, SIR! ;)
to be fair, most differences come out when you push the plugins. on low settings, many different versions of the same plugin will sound very close. i do think i could hear a difference in the highs as well. the waves seemed more sparkly, where as the free one had that slightly choked feeling that the hot circuitry gives. it felt a bit like it was hitting a limiter, where as the waves breathed more.i guess it why they put that input gain knob, so you can give it more headroom.
That was interesting. From my experience, Code Red Free does distort quite a lot and I've found myself having to gain stage differently (or carefully) for it than for other plugins. I really wish the free version had better metering for input and output. I do like the distortion it produces when pushed, so I use it as a drive plugin more than a console EQ emulation, and I specially like having the wet/dry knob to blend in stuff as needed. I would consider getting the paid version for the extra flexibility. From your demo, I heard distortion when you boosted the high shelf that made the string sheen harsher.
10:20 I really prefer the high end on the waves, sounds a lot opener and more smooth than the free version. Really like it. Bass is also much nicer. Free version sounds boxy, waves sounds creamy. I highly recommend using it in M/S and make slightly different settings (boost MID more on bass and SIDE more on treble) - this will open up the sound and add punch.
Maybe if you backed of the wet signal to halfway on the Red, you would get a better neutral sound, you are basically starting with a very coloured driven sound not an even one, so if you had the Wave plugin with drive on full, you would see a different comparison.
Make sure the gain staging on the free one bumps the needle around zero (adjust the INPUT dial to compensate). You'll find the low end will warm up, just like the waves one! I own both BTW.
In my opinion you should have made the gain adjustment right away just looking at how the meters were peaking. Meters pegged would be a good indication of distortion. Trim the audio before you hit the plugin. I do have the red free but rarely use it. Thanks for sharing.
I used it a while ago and some nice facts that impressed me are: code red free is available as 32 and 64 bit plugin version vst 2 and 3 or audio unit! so even it looks like an oldfashioned GUI from the UAD1 era it has the compatibility like full commercial plugins nowadays!
nice comparison! i've been using code red free for a long time. by the way, pressing Solo with Ctrl (on PC) toggles track's soloing - its very convenient for such purpose.
If you group your mutes, with one muted and one unmuted, you can then click on one and it will turn the other one off. without stopping. Much more effective for evaluation purposes.
doesn't the waves have a built in compressor, thats why the bottom end didn't bottom out. Waves kept the signal under control which you would have to do separately for the SG Redd
Now that you bring it up, I have noticed a few people had mentioned something about Waves using an internal pre compression on the inputs of their plugins. Good to know.
MakeYourOwnDamnMusic yeah seems they like to have certain level they like it to come in at but that center meter on the waves seems to act like its compressing....
I can't hear the difference through my laptop but, as someone correctly pointed out - You are running a digital signal measured at dBFS compared to an analogue emulated plugin which the levels are real world dBVU. From what you have said, it would be the Waves plugin that is inaccurate as that level of digital signal would have sounded terrible through the hardware EMI console and would have likely popped a valve. That clipping will occur way above +3dB and even true analogue VU meters don't accurately measure peaks - The EMI REDD console was made in a golden era of audio engineering, very different to our current fetish for low quality sound (MP3), excessive loudness and affordable one box solution.
Thanks for the video. Not sure if it's been mentioned, but when you were pushing the EQ on each plugin to the extreme, they weren't matched. If you look at the Code Red it goes from 1 to 10, and those little dots are each a number. The 12 o'clock position is 5, and the dot to the right of it is 6. Count them from there and you'll see you get to 10. So when you were pushing the Code Red you were actually on 8 or so, while the Waves was on 6. Thanks again. I own the free one and I like it quite a bit, but I would like to buy the Abbey Road bundle from Waves someday.
After many listens, I'm pretty sure that the free Red adds a subtle chorus-like effect to the first harmonic, which is around 785 Hz. I kept listening and comparing and I really think I'm hearing it and liking it....I feel it adds subtle depth and musicality. Listening to the same frequency on the Waves (and I like Waves, have many of their plugins) it sounded more static and "motionless". I actually prefer the sound of the free one, even without any boosts at all. Just my two cents. Thanks for an interesting vid!
@@MakeYourOwnDamnMusic I wanted to let you know that it was very interesting to see a channel strip in use, particularly because the great albums of the past were made without whizz-bang plugins that we have today. I very quickly mixed a scratch track with nothing but the Waves API-550B plugin, added some saturation and was quite surprised to see the spectrum analysis of the bus looking so flat! Those engineers did pick those boost and cut frequencies carefully. Best, Pete.
Love the API line. I use the EQ + Comp on both my Mix Bus Channels (Drums & Music). Amazing texture, and nice quick dialing in with the EQ to shape the overall body of the mix bus.
the best way to AB in cubase is to mute one track and have the other track with no mute Or solo , then to switch seamlessly between the two press solo on the muted track and then you will have no break between A and B. Much easier to tell the differences then.
You're driving the plugin too hard. -18dBfs analogue = 0dBVu. So to hit the "sweet spot" on these plugins you've got to make sure you're not driving into it at -6dBfs digital otherwise you'll be pushing the plugin as if it was being pushed into +12dB which is way too much.
Both were pushed... Waves had the exact same db level to contend with and took it like a champ. I hear what you're saying, though. It would have been nice to have it leveled off correctly at the beginning of the video, rather than adjusting half way through it.
Jarrah Bathe The VU Meter tells you nothing. Driving those plugins can really sound great and sticking the needle to +3 VU often gives a nice saturation. Harmonic distortion is kind of hard to emulate, so it's free, who cares.
Michael Stelz, you're right. Saturation these analogue devices is more of a curve than hard clipping, like a daw. So while you push it past that 0dBvu it does still sound nice as you push it. the further you push it the more intense the saturation will get, possibly detracting from the quality.
Thanks for doing this. But I think that lunarchris 1 might be right when he says, " don't know anything about Code Red, but that POP in white under the low end shelf EQ looks like they were modelling the REDD 51 instead of the 17". I seem to remember when I downloaded the Shattered Glass 'Code Red Free' plugin a few months ago and had a quick look and listen, that it models *both* the REDD 51 and REDD 17, and that one can switch between them, but I cannot remember that accurately, and the manual says nothing about this. I would be interested in you doing another comparison, after appropriate gain staging, and checking the information above. I have to say, though, that the Shattered Glass 'Code Red Free', is very impressive, particularly in the high end (despite a bit of 'blur' in the mid-range on the acoustic guitar sample you played), and I can imagine that, as someone else here said, it is possible to get a great sound out of this plugin. Given the quality of the 'Code Red Free', I would not pay $249 for the Waves version of this plugin.
Like you say, the free version goes up to 10 and the waves version up to 6. I think the moddeling have something to do "With the Sound" that cames out, or? Yes ok the UI (GUI) came from the original hardware...yes. But what i want to say is, when you get distortion on sound...and the visual meter is knocking HARD on the right end...ähm...than you get a distorted sound...or not? That is absolutly normal...on a analog console it is the same, when your visual meters complete in the RED area ...You are OVER and get crackels. I don't belive that the free version is worst in quality, as the waves original, while you are overtune the sound in the red area and get crackels ... that makes no sense. Than this is a normal reaction... When the Sound (without to overtune it into the red area) is allways the same, like the original plugin, on normal tunings...äh...than we have a great plugin here! Yesterday i test this plugin first time, and for sure the visual meter is very sensitive! But is'nt it not that thing, what we all do...to early ...to turn the mix to loud!? So that is good that this Plugin shows you your errors ;-) Turn the volume down, mate... and we are on the way again... You want to hear your mix louder...than turn up your monitor speakers...! So it is a free plugin and i think by 11:15 min what you say: "Here we see the diffrenz in quality of that free plugin ..." NO, i think you wrong, that is not right, for the reasons i say. But the original waves plugin is indeed a better plugin, that is no question. But to overtune a plugin and get crackels, is normal and not in fact a bad plugin design, or bad quality. So that is my opinion.
When you boost the high/low shelving EQs, aren't you boosting the free one significantly more? I mean, you seem to be boosting +3 dots out of 4 dots, which should be 7.5 not 6.
Excuse me? Any compression will change a listener's perception surely? I never said the saturation was down to youtube just that you can never get a 100% true representation of sound from a video on this channel. I stand by that comment.
I don't know what you're "hearing." But there's nothing that's technically clipping. Maybe it sounds a little overdriven, but that's not what is reffered to as "clipping" in the pro audio world. Clipping,generally , is when a convertor overloads. The meter usually goes full scale all the way to the top (OdBfs) and the waveform gets squared off at the top. Clipping isn't subtle. This guy wouldn't have posted files for this demonstration if his audio was clipping.
aaand a tip for better comarison: programsettings - project and mixconsole - activate solo when selected. then you can simply click the tracks in solo. cheers!
The CodeRed certainly holds up well here. Think I'm gonna get it. I don't get this video? It's basically abusing the plugin and complaining it distorts in a fairly cool way. Moderation is key man.
Man,when I look at you meters, the signal Is peaking almost at 0.0 dbFS in Cubase even after you've turned the clip gain down.Both plugins are emulation of a hardware (analog device). it means we shouldn't overload these devices.The bad (digital) distortion we're hearing is the plugin breaking down.It cannot keep up with the signal too strong.Though the Redd console would distort in a more pleasant way , these emulations won't.The Waves one has a little more headroom the free one not.In the analog world the engineers almost never feed any device with more than 0 dbVU.It means no more than between -18 and -12 dbFS.Unless you're using a plugin with extended internal headroom like the REQ from Waves for exemple,you should keep you're gain staging correct before hitting any other plugin in your chain.We should learn more about recording,mixing and producing from the beginning before so, we'll avoid these kind of mistakes when working on our DAWs.I mean me myself include.With Respect. Peace!!!
$249? Never. If that's your thing, FYI Waves Redd can be had right now for $49 (or less) if you are watching the right sales sources. Just sayin........
@@oumuamuao9496 That is Waves. ANy VST for 250 or whatever is a scam really in my opinion. All VSTs are outrageously overpriced. They all should cost around 20-50 max. Maybe 100. Paying 300 bucks for vst eq is just bonkers for me.
How can anyone take these minute sound difference comparison videos seriously after they have been compressed through god knows what RUclips algorithms and delivered in most cases through speakers not even vaguely resembling professional studio reference monitors?
Abby Roads is NOT the most important and most successful studio of all time. Unique Recording Studios was one of the great out of many recording studios. from Madonna to LL Cool J and everyone in between has recorded in Unique Recording Studios. Unique has won well over 10-k multi platinum awards from almost every major artist that exist today and from the 80's on wards... The list of recording artists that has recorded and mastered their tracks in Unique is so long, we would need 6 months time just to name them all.
yeah..I think if you're having both set on neutral and the free one does THAT..omg..awful..wow..so bad..I almost had to take my headphones off (mind you they are B&W)
I think the documentation says to run it at an input of about -18, free plugins will be finicky about stuff because they just need to get a sound, but with higher prices compamies can focus on a variety of situations while free plugin developers often only have time to optimize for specific situations
Your sample is no good for this test You need something with wider fq span .. no enough high FQ here.. and in lo end waves plug in keeps the natural sound with a touch of warmth and the other one has a problem with mid-lo and probably sw but cant rally hear with this ample... may be code red works good up to some level less than 6db and may be also works good on high end although if you listen carefully you can hear the high Fq peeks on strumming much higher and clearer on waves but you need a sample with more high FQs.
kids don't care what you use, and the way people listen to music today is so different. how good does a recording need to be to be smart device or blue tooth device ready?
And I don't believe Shattered Glass actually did any modeling based on circuit design. They modeled from the Waves plugin response, and didn't do such an awesome job of it. Stuff like this must drive companies like Waves up a wall. They did all the research, made the investment, and their work is simply copied. At least it's nice to see you get what you pay for.
No biggie I think I've got enough vsts anyway. I don't know if you know about Hybrid synth, you should do one on that. Im just not sure how it stacks up to some of the best in the industry. Would be cool because I have it and I think it is out of this world. Hybrid came with either my AKAI or my Novation Midi Controller. Im thinking AKAI.
Looking forward to hopefully a review. Thanx for being so prompt. Appreciate it. I got someother ideas for you but I will let you do you for now. Thanx again.
dont pay for plugins!theyre all overpriced junk!pirate that shit! these things should cost like 5 bucks not $100+.if you cant afford analog hardware then try making music that doesnt require it (and if you must go the plug-in route,get em for free)
** * PLEASE READ * **
After seeing certain suggestions repeated multiple times in the comment
section, I decided to redo the test with slight modifications. Those
modifications include:
1. Instead of using Waves Redd-17 (like in this video), I use Waves
Redd-37 (which is apparently the model Shattered Glass Audio was
copying.)
2. Gain staging is done at the start of the video. Same guitar sample is
used for the test.
3. We verify that the output setting of 5db on Code Redd Free is the
same as 0db on Waves Redd-37. In other words, both of the output
settings in this video were set to the correct levels.
4. And lastly, both units are set to “LS” or “Linked Stereo”
WATCH THE UPDATE HERE - ruclips.net/video/xuiCMZQVqs4/видео.html
I realize I'm kind of off topic but do anybody know a good place to watch new tv shows online ?
@Allan Jayceon I use Flixzone. You can find it by googling :)
I've been using the free one on several projects. Once you take care of proper gain staging with the input and output knobs the plug-in will not distort at all and really shines.
i agree with you on that, but i think this was just a comparison for the sake of this video. Of course you can all always play around with the Free one and get _that_ sound you're looking for, the thing with free plugins is that it takes more time to get there then the _expensive_ ones, but hey, i'm happy they still develop free stuff. :)
User manual (Code Red):
"At low input signal levels and low Gain settings, preamplifier in Code Red Free operates in the “clean” regime. When operated in such conditions Code Red Free can be used to enrich the original sound by adding “warmth” (additional harmonics) to it.
At high signal strengths and/or high Gain settings Code Red’s preamps can be pushed into overdrive and distortion."
...
thanks for the video! I haven't tried the free one, but I bought the REDD from Waves and wanted to suggest that people try it as a send and run vocals through it with the drive knob turned all the way up. great vocal saturation!
In my monitors the warm "horn" tones in your guitar track were brought out richer and sweeter than in the Waves version. I didn't hear anything breaking up on either, and the Waves sounded kind of thin to me. Usually I'd probably lean toward thinner in the mix, but the free one actually sounded more "round" in the bottom when you pushed it, which sounds more like the response of that class of physical hardware to my ears. I own both plugs; and now you have inspired me to play around with them. Thanks for posting. Nice to meet you!
Thanks for the feedback, glenesis. Nice to meet you, too.
I don't know anything about Code Red, but that POP in white under the low end shelf EQ looks like they were modelling the REDD 51 instead of the 17. The Waves Redd 51 has that POP, which adds a 5k boost to the high shelf eq (so like a bell at 5k and shelf at 10k, I believe, instead of just the shelf which is all the 17 has). So this doesn't seem like a true 1 to 1 comparison. Regardless, it was interesting to see the two plugs put against each other. Thanks for doing this!
*It all sounds the same to me!*
The free plug in's output is set to +5dB, the waves is at unity (0dB).
Thank you for the comparison. Isn't the Code Red Free calibrated to work as hardware i.e. if you hit it with more than -18 dB it will tend to distort? I think the idea is to hit it with max -18 dB and then you can drive the plugin a little by lifting the input on the Code Red Free itself. This way you should not get the distortion you get in your example. If you drive the plugin too hard (i.e. push the needle on the VU meter too far above zero) you will get distortion. In other words the Code Red Free might work in a bit of a different way compared to the Waves plugin...
That's the same thing I was thinking! I know the Waves version has an adjuster for the meter to keep it in line with the particular dbu vs dbfs scaling that is being used.
Waves stays brightened, either in highs lows.
The freeware is probably going to sound VERY Close after adjusting whatever the Waves compressor is set to.
For the most part? it's the same attenuation -- but, the warmth goes to Waves -- NO QUESTION.
Thank You for this most informative demonstration... helps out on out side.
Thank You, SIR! ;)
to be fair, most differences come out when you push the plugins. on low settings, many different versions of the same plugin will sound very close. i do think i could hear a difference in the highs as well. the waves seemed more sparkly, where as the free one had that slightly choked feeling that the hot circuitry gives. it felt a bit like it was hitting a limiter, where as the waves breathed more.i guess it why they put that input gain knob, so you can give it more headroom.
That was interesting. From my experience, Code Red Free does distort quite a lot and I've found myself having to gain stage differently (or carefully) for it than for other plugins. I really wish the free version had better metering for input and output.
I do like the distortion it produces when pushed, so I use it as a drive plugin more than a console EQ emulation, and I specially like having the wet/dry knob to blend in stuff as needed. I would consider getting the paid version for the extra flexibility.
From your demo, I heard distortion when you boosted the high shelf that made the string sheen harsher.
10:20 I really prefer the high end on the waves, sounds a lot opener and more smooth than the free version. Really like it. Bass is also much nicer. Free version sounds boxy, waves sounds creamy. I highly recommend using it in M/S and make slightly different settings (boost MID more on bass and SIDE more on treble) - this will open up the sound and add punch.
Maybe if you backed of the wet signal to halfway on the Red, you would get a better neutral sound, you are basically starting with a very coloured driven sound not an even one, so if you had the Wave plugin with drive on full, you would see a different comparison.
Allright! This is one great, serious test. Really good. The Shattered Glass plug is one that I use every day now.
Make sure the gain staging on the free one bumps the needle around zero (adjust the INPUT dial to compensate). You'll find the low end will warm up, just like the waves one! I own both BTW.
I did a similar video and found that the shattered glass plugin actually compliments REDD really well on Brass :)
Post a link. Let's check it out.
In my opinion you should have made the gain adjustment right away just looking at how the meters were peaking. Meters pegged would be a good indication of distortion. Trim the audio before you hit the plugin. I do have the red free but rarely use it. Thanks for sharing.
I used it a while ago and some nice facts that impressed me are: code red free is available as 32 and 64 bit plugin version vst 2 and 3 or audio unit! so even it looks like an oldfashioned GUI from the UAD1 era it has the compatibility like full commercial plugins nowadays!
nice comparison! i've been using code red free for a long time.
by the way, pressing Solo with Ctrl (on PC) toggles track's soloing - its very convenient for such purpose.
If you group your mutes, with one muted and one unmuted, you can then click on one and it will turn the other one off. without stopping. Much more effective for evaluation purposes.
doesn't the waves have a built in compressor, thats why the bottom end didn't bottom out. Waves kept the signal under control which you would have to do separately for the SG Redd
Now that you bring it up, I have noticed a few people had mentioned something about Waves using an internal pre compression on the inputs of their plugins. Good to know.
MakeYourOwnDamnMusic yeah seems they like to have certain level they like it to come in at but that center meter on the waves seems to act like its compressing....
Great video and I enjoy your comparisons. The low end suffered on the free but hey, it's free and can use it for some mild effects.
I can't hear the difference through my laptop but, as someone correctly pointed out - You are running a digital signal measured at dBFS compared to an analogue emulated plugin which the levels are real world dBVU. From what you have said, it would be the Waves plugin that is inaccurate as that level of digital signal would have sounded terrible through the hardware EMI console and would have likely popped a valve. That clipping will occur way above +3dB and even true analogue VU meters don't accurately measure peaks - The EMI REDD console was made in a golden era of audio engineering, very different to our current fetish for low quality sound (MP3), excessive loudness and affordable one box solution.
Thanks for the video.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but when you were pushing the EQ on each plugin to the extreme, they weren't matched.
If you look at the Code Red it goes from 1 to 10, and those little dots are each a number. The 12 o'clock position is 5, and the dot to the right of it is 6. Count them from there and you'll see you get to 10.
So when you were pushing the Code Red you were actually on 8 or so, while the Waves was on 6.
Thanks again. I own the free one and I like it quite a bit, but I would like to buy the Abbey Road bundle from Waves someday.
I think you may be able to match them perfectly by adjusting the settings a tad different instead of setting the same way.
After many listens, I'm pretty sure that the free Red adds a subtle chorus-like effect to the first harmonic, which is around 785 Hz. I kept listening and comparing and I really think I'm hearing it and liking it....I feel it adds subtle depth and musicality. Listening to the same frequency on the Waves (and I like Waves, have many of their plugins) it sounded more static and "motionless". I actually prefer the sound of the free one, even without any boosts at all. Just my two cents. Thanks for an interesting vid!
Thanks for sharing the feedback, Pete. It's appreciated.
@@MakeYourOwnDamnMusic I wanted to let you know that it was very interesting to see a channel strip in use, particularly because the great albums of the past were made without whizz-bang plugins that we have today. I very quickly mixed a scratch track with nothing but the Waves API-550B plugin, added some saturation and was quite surprised to see the spectrum analysis of the bus looking so flat! Those engineers did pick those boost and cut frequencies carefully. Best, Pete.
Love the API line. I use the EQ + Comp on both my Mix Bus Channels (Drums & Music). Amazing texture, and nice quick dialing in with the EQ to shape the overall body of the mix bus.
Simply ctrl-click on the solo button to switch directly between two tracks (Cubase-shortcut).
Thanks for this interesting video!!!
Or keep one track muted at all times, and use the solo button on that one without doing anything to the other track. At least that works in Reaper.
Ati Shephard Good idea tool! I don't know reaper but with ctrl-click on solo in Cubase you can compare several tracks.
the best way to AB in cubase is to mute one track and have the other track with no mute Or solo , then to switch seamlessly between the two press solo on the muted track and then you will have no break between A and B. Much easier to tell the differences then.
You're driving the plugin too hard. -18dBfs analogue = 0dBVu. So to hit the "sweet spot" on these plugins you've got to make sure you're not driving into it at -6dBfs digital otherwise you'll be pushing the plugin as if it was being pushed into +12dB which is way too much.
Both were pushed... Waves had the exact same db level to contend with and took it like a champ. I hear what you're saying, though. It would have been nice to have it leveled off correctly at the beginning of the video, rather than adjusting half way through it.
MakeYourOwnDamnMusic I agree, waves definitely puts more time into preventing unintentional loss quality from a less than ideal input.
Totally right there Jarrah.
Jarrah Bathe The VU Meter tells you nothing. Driving those plugins can really sound great and sticking the needle to +3 VU often gives a nice saturation. Harmonic distortion is kind of hard to emulate, so it's free, who cares.
Michael Stelz, you're right. Saturation these analogue devices is more of a curve than hard clipping, like a daw. So while you push it past that 0dBvu it does still sound nice as you push it. the further you push it the more intense the saturation will get, possibly detracting from the quality.
Thank you for the comparison. The Waves one takes the upper-mids better than the free one. It sounds a bit "fatter".
KAHN-SOUL = console not “COUNCIL” thanks for post very illuminating
prick
Interesting video. Read through the comments and I agree. Can you make a video where the output audio source peaks around -18db (around 0 on the VU)?
After watching it again just spotted that Output level on vst itself is at 5dB on free ver and Waves at 0dB.
This is why itys possibly distorting.
Just so you know, they weren't both set to stereo. You need to switch code red to ST mode just like the waves plugin.
Thanks for doing this.
But I think that lunarchris 1 might be right when he says, " don't know anything about Code Red, but that POP in white under the low end shelf EQ looks like they were modelling the REDD 51 instead of the 17".
I seem to remember when I downloaded the Shattered Glass 'Code Red Free' plugin a few months ago and had a quick look and listen, that it models *both* the REDD 51 and REDD 17, and that one can switch between them, but I cannot remember that accurately, and the manual says nothing about this.
I would be interested in you doing another comparison, after appropriate gain staging, and checking the information above. I have to say, though, that the Shattered Glass 'Code Red Free', is very impressive, particularly in the high end (despite a bit of 'blur' in the mid-range on the acoustic guitar sample you played), and I can imagine that, as someone else here said, it is possible to get a great sound out of this plugin.
Given the quality of the 'Code Red Free', I would not pay $249 for the Waves version of this plugin.
That paid plugin is so good with the acustice guitar.
Used the free plugin for years and it is good.
Free vst plugins are getting better and better.Soon you will be able to create own mix with decent quality not spending fortune.
Thanks for getting to the point ! I love you 👍🏻
Both plugins are good. We are discussing maybe 0.5 percent of sound difference. In daily work this is not worth mentioning it.
Really cool job.Yes,I did dig it.Thanx!
plugins usually sre optimized to work best at -18 dBFS. SO IF YOU use this proper gsinstaging I bet you will find they both sound much better
the free one has a bit of a live vibe going on; the Waves is king but still I can can't afford it.
It's on sale for 29$ right...
Love your page! Just subscribed ♥️
so yeah, my antivirus blocks the shatteredglass website saying it's a known bad site for infections :(
@MakeYourOwnDamnMusic Clicking Solo (in Cubase) while holding down CTRL will defeat other tracks. Comes very handy in comparing two tracks :)
Thanks, Billie.
4:13 aren't these plugins optimized for running at -18db VU?
the waves seemed to have a depth to it. Not incredibly noticeable however.
what I thought too
Like you say, the free version goes up to 10 and the waves version up to 6.
I think the moddeling have something to do "With the Sound" that cames out, or?
Yes ok the UI (GUI) came from the original hardware...yes.
But what i want to say is, when you get distortion on sound...and the visual meter is knocking HARD on the right end...ähm...than you get a distorted sound...or not?
That is absolutly normal...on a analog console it is the same, when your visual meters complete in the RED area ...You are OVER and get crackels.
I don't belive that the free version is worst in quality, as the waves original, while you are overtune the sound in the red area and get crackels ... that makes no sense.
Than this is a normal reaction...
When the Sound (without to overtune it into the red area) is allways the same, like the original plugin, on normal tunings...äh...than we have a great plugin here!
Yesterday i test this plugin first time, and for sure the visual meter is very sensitive!
But is'nt it not that thing, what we all do...to early ...to turn the mix to loud!?
So that is good that this Plugin shows you your errors ;-)
Turn the volume down, mate... and we are on the way again...
You want to hear your mix louder...than turn up your monitor speakers...!
So it is a free plugin and i think by 11:15 min what you say: "Here we see the diffrenz in quality of that free plugin ..." NO, i think you wrong, that is not right, for the reasons i say.
But the original waves plugin is indeed a better plugin, that is no question.
But to overtune a plugin and get crackels, is normal and not in fact a bad plugin design, or bad quality. So that is my opinion.
When you boost the high/low shelving EQs, aren't you boosting the free one significantly more?
I mean, you seem to be boosting +3 dots out of 4 dots, which should be 7.5 not 6.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Did anybody notice that Code Red Free is running in LS mode (whatever that means ) while the Waves Redd17 is on Stereo mode ?
LS = Linked Stereo
Allright, thank you for the explaining. :)
For what shuld i use this vst?
i think you just need to treat the plugins differently, you could achieve a similar sound with different settings.
I'm thinking of redoing this video. Thanks for the feedback.
just listen to the downbeat of each bar. Waves is way smoother in an analog way. somewhat compressed sounding.
If it distorts try turning it down until it doesn't distort
I like the sound without any plug ins. Why use them at all.
Look carefully. The FREE isn't zero'd at ALL. It's actually at +5 on the output.
+5 on the free one = 0db on waves.
MakeYourOwnDamnMusic I wonder why that is. If they're both trying to model the same piece of equipment then why the huge difference?
Nice acoustic guitar sound! But I didn't hear any clipping throughout this video
RUclips compress videos on upload so you will never get a true representation of sound.
10:52 it's very bad on the bottom end boost on the free one
Excuse me? Any compression will change a listener's perception surely? I never said the saturation was down to youtube just that you can never get a 100% true representation of sound from a video on this channel. I stand by that comment.
Titus Andronicus Yeah? Point it out to me. Just give me a couple of numbers during the video?
I don't know what you're "hearing." But there's nothing that's technically clipping. Maybe it sounds a little overdriven, but that's not what is reffered to as "clipping" in the pro audio world. Clipping,generally , is when a convertor overloads. The meter usually goes full scale all the way to the top (OdBfs) and the waveform gets squared off at the top. Clipping isn't subtle. This guy wouldn't have posted files for this demonstration if his audio was clipping.
The free one is in "LS", not Stereo.
aaand a tip for better comarison: programsettings - project and mixconsole - activate solo when selected. then you can simply click the tracks in solo. cheers!
My understanding was that LS = Linked Stereo
ah ok :)
I'll take the free one :)
The CodeRed certainly holds up well here. Think I'm gonna get it. I don't get this video? It's basically abusing the plugin and complaining it distorts in a fairly cool way. Moderation is key man.
The shattered glass free version makes my cubase crash when I open it up
In other words the free version is better with minor adjustments you can accomplish the same
Man,when I look at you meters, the signal Is peaking almost at 0.0 dbFS in Cubase even after you've turned the clip gain down.Both plugins are emulation of a hardware (analog device). it means we shouldn't overload these devices.The bad (digital) distortion we're hearing is the plugin breaking down.It cannot keep up with the signal too strong.Though the Redd console would distort in a more pleasant way , these emulations won't.The Waves one has a little more headroom the free one not.In the analog world the engineers almost never feed any device with more than 0 dbVU.It means no more than between -18 and -12 dbFS.Unless you're using a plugin with extended internal headroom like the REQ from Waves for exemple,you should keep you're gain staging correct before hitting any other plugin in your chain.We should learn more about recording,mixing and producing from the beginning before so, we'll avoid these kind of mistakes when working on our DAWs.I mean me myself include.With Respect. Peace!!!
$249? Never.
If that's your thing, FYI Waves Redd can be had right now for $49 (or less) if you are watching the right sales sources.
Just sayin........
It's actually $29 right now.
yeah.. waves have perfected the art of devaluating their products. as Kris says now $29...
whats ur guitar sounds awesome
It's a sample, I didn't play it.
MakeYourOwnDamnMusic ok thanks
Update: 6/21 The waves $250 plugin is only $50 right now (on sale).
Update: 9/11 Waves WTF $29 Sale.
@@oumuamuao9496 That is Waves. ANy VST for 250 or whatever is a scam really in my opinion. All VSTs are outrageously overpriced. They all should cost around 20-50 max. Maybe 100. Paying 300 bucks for vst eq is just bonkers for me.
It says it is unsafe for my computer.
I click on instruntals and I hear no soft
What mode is the free on?
linked stereo
MakeYourOwnDamnMusic ahh okay, thanks
"The Red Council"
How can anyone take these minute sound difference comparison videos seriously after they have been compressed through god knows what RUclips algorithms and delivered in most cases through speakers not even vaguely resembling professional studio reference monitors?
Night and day difference.
Ohhhh!
Waves one is batter. But not very batter. As price is really far.
Abby Roads is NOT the most important and most successful studio of all time.
Unique Recording Studios was one of the great out of many recording studios. from Madonna to LL Cool J and everyone in between has recorded in Unique Recording Studios.
Unique has won well over 10-k multi platinum awards from almost every major artist that exist today and from the 80's on wards...
The list of recording artists that has recorded and mastered their tracks in Unique is so long, we would need 6 months time just to name them all.
Wasn't aware of these guys. Thanks for the info, twsted.
yeah..I think if you're having both set on neutral and the free one does THAT..omg..awful..wow..so bad..I almost had to take my headphones off (mind you they are B&W)
h8r
I think the documentation says to run it at an input of about -18, free plugins will be finicky about stuff because they just need to get a sound, but with higher prices compamies can focus on a variety of situations while free plugin developers often only have time to optimize for specific situations
Your sample is no good for this test You need something with wider fq span .. no enough high FQ here.. and in lo end waves plug in keeps the natural sound with a touch of warmth and the other one has a problem with mid-lo and probably sw but cant rally hear with this ample... may be code red works good up to some level less than 6db and may be also works good on high end although if you listen carefully you can hear the high Fq peeks on strumming much higher and clearer on waves but you need a sample with more high FQs.
666 likes man thats creepy i had to add a like to remove that
kids don't care what you use, and the way people listen to music today is so different. how good does a recording need to be to be smart device or blue tooth device ready?
Maybe I'm crazy
But it ALL sounds the same to me.
I guess my ears aren't trained.
Like!!!
And there is also this comparison, which I see you also found, ruclips.net/video/CHDY1A9jso8/видео.html
And I don't believe Shattered Glass actually did any modeling based on circuit design. They modeled from the Waves plugin response, and didn't do such an awesome job of it. Stuff like this must drive companies like Waves up a wall. They did all the research, made the investment, and their work is simply copied. At least it's nice to see you get what you pay for.
WOW, Pete! Was not aware of this. Thanks so much for filling us in. This clears things up quite a bit... at least for me.
Mine wont load no matter what I try
and this comment .......
EL PLUGIN GRATIS NO ES NADA BUENO, SUENA MUY MAL
What you should have added in was the default DAW EQ set to similar frequencies, then you'll see both are just overrated eye-candy wank.
Gain staging man...
I donated ten bucks to shattered glass to see if the donate button goes away. They said it doesn't. I deleted the vst and lost 10 dollars.
I'm sorry to hear that, Redman. That's pretty lame, imo.
No biggie I think I've got enough vsts anyway. I don't know if you know about Hybrid synth, you should do one on that. Im just not sure how it stacks up to some of the best in the industry. Would be cool because I have it and I think it is out of this world. Hybrid came with either my AKAI or my Novation Midi Controller. Im thinking AKAI.
Thanks for the heads up, redman. Will check that out.
Looking forward to hopefully a review. Thanx for being so prompt. Appreciate it. I got someother ideas for you but I will let you do you for now. Thanx again.
I thought this was a free synth.
Watch your mode ouput signal... Stereo for Waves and LS for the free... Not the same result!
Cheap gives you a cheap sound 👀🤣🤣
dont pay for plugins!theyre all overpriced junk!pirate that shit!
these things should cost like 5 bucks not $100+.if you cant afford analog hardware then try making music that doesnt require it (and if you must go the plug-in route,get em for free)