LMAO i thought that part was edited to be longer and the original would be “you give me eat orange” or something 💀 Guess I underestimated the power of ape
Koko did join concepts. She once signed “ape together strong” and “puny human society will burn” . Also she admitted to thinking that Ed Sheeran seems like he tried too hard and that his music is 7/10 at best. She was a fascinating creature.
@@rachelleleva5794 wow, I thought she died a long time ago, since the movies with her are so old... Just now realized she only died less than 2 years ago... Still, must have been too old to mobilize the Gorilla forces against us.
Level Nine Drow What the fuck are you talking about, nothing about religious people were brought up in this video at all and it was clearly explained that people stopped believing in this shit cos of skeptics from actual psychologists, blaming religious people is just so ignorant
@@thirdocean3784 He does have a point though! Most religious people attempts a clear division between "human" and "animal". And what does psychologist know? That's pseudo science (just like Freud et al). Ask biologists, geneticists and linguists instead... or intelligent people in general (able to think both openly and critically) that actually study animals for years and therefore can analyse their behaviour better than many narrow minded "experts".
It's not so simple, that's just one interpretation of his behavior. Dogs and rats can be taught to ring bells to get food. Maybe this ape is "ringing a bell" in her use of these words. A true use of language would probably involve understanding that the word "orange" is a label for a fruit. It could Maybe apes are understanding and participating in language. But I don't think signing for an orange is a clear cut green light for that posit.
@Level Nine Drow Not write a Shakespearian play, but construct/decrypt ideas. That is, true understanding, and not training. Also, there is nothing wrong with having religious beliefs; only if you personally reject religious ideas can you say there's something wrong about it. Otherwise, it would be like saying "they have philosophical beliefs", etc.. Animals ARE different from humans. That's evident, otherwise, tell me which animals have made a Constitution, built a spaceship, write a book, etc...? Obviously no animals have done so; if you want to claim there's no difference between animals and humans you would be doing so from an ideological position disparaging universal and self-evident human experience. It's obvious that animals can communicate rudimentary feelings, but to say that they have language, it's linguistically a very far leap to make, and I would propose a counter to you: It seems to me that you want to make animals and humans the same so you can justify an ideological position, even though your own personal experience is radically contrary to such a notion.
GIVE ORANGE ME "Give me orange" GIVE EAT ORANGE "Orange the food" ME EAT ORANGE "I can eat / want to eat orange" GIVE ME EAT ORANGE (An emphasis of previous points) GIVE ME YOU "Thank you."
I was thinking the same thing! We want that too! These chimps were signing asking for, "Hug. Nim. You hug. Me." Asking for hugs and food. That's pretty normal and I'm not surprised at all considering that they're related to us.
But humans are more apt to try to gain ultimate power, rule the world, have money, let alone excess of money that they would never spend in a lifetime just to have it, ect. Things that apes have no use for.
Omega Fury: ALL people, including white people, are classified as apes by scientists so your attempt to disparage black people is a huge fail you racist moron.
I think you might be reading too into their comment. They just said that we have the same basic wants as any social animal. Not that they're just as mentally complex as we are.
The best evidence I heard about Koko being intelligent was when she was asked to smile for a photo, she made the sign "smile" with her hands and frowned with her lips. This wasn't an attempt to get treats from the researchers, this was an instance of her knowing what was being asked of her and being a little smart-alec about it, just like a human child might.
Well think ab it like this. She associates the gestures with the words she says. So when she hears smile she’s gonna gesture smile because that’s what she was taught. She didn’t understand what she was smiling for exactly she just knew that when her trainer says smile to do that gesture. The last word “for a photo” completely went over kokos head so therefore it’s not proof at all
Eminem: "you can rhyme lots of words with orange" Nim: *"hold my banana"* *_"give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you"_*
Not quite. We as humans express ideas. "Food, orange, you, me" could be said to be an idea but it's a very weak idea at that; it expresses not only simple stuff, but at its bottom expresses nothing else that can be expressed by them grabbing an orange from a person and eating it. We as humans can use language in order to construct spaceships or write a Constitution, to write fiction, etc..., there are various differences between such simple communication and language.
Natanael Lizama There was a time in the past where simple languages was used by humans. It took humans many thousands or millions of years to form a complex language. Languages as well as anything in life evolved through time. For a human and a gorilla or any prime mate to even communicate in these levels is remarkable. Don’t question other living beings intelligence just because you don’t understand them.
I went to Iowa State for Linguistics and got to meet Kanzi in the Ape Cognition and Conservation Initiative and I brought him some pine needles which I read he likes to play with and he straight up made a "pog" face in surprise then used his lexigram to ask for other things cuz he made the connection that if I could bring him those I could bring him other stuff. He even gave me directions to where they keep the food and other gifts in the building. I later got to play with him as he ran from side to side I would run along with him and we would tackle the glass in the middle (he strong af) in a game he simply called "chase". He also pointed to the "chase" lexigram then did a kind of specific hand clap until I mimicked it in response. Later he only used the hand clap to mean "chase" cuz he wasnt always near the lexigram. I am typing this while I have one of his finger paintings on my wall as well. Argue all you want about was it language or not, but it definitely was the highest level of communication with an animal I had ever experienced. Due to COVID tho, I probably wont get to meet him again as the place closed down to visitors. But I will always think of Kanzi as a good friend.
People think theyre smarter than animals, and expect them to learn our complicated language. When they do learn our language, people doubt them. But if the role were reversed, those same people will have no idea and zero clue how to communicated in the animals language. So who is really dumb here?
Tigre Monster True. The way they reason and process info is also different. But our language also has a lot of terminology that animals simply won’t understand and won’t be able to use in sentences properly.
And every evening Koko would go back to her room, shake her head and say, "I've been trying to teach those hairless apes how to speak Gorilla for years now, and it seems they will never learn it! Koko sad and wants a kitten."
Koko’s internal conversation: “….And STILL they got me a lousy stuffed toy first, after I clearly indicated I want a kitten…. so I had to explain the whole thing all over again to them. I sometimes wonder if these humans will EVER learn…. Or maybe it is just something that goes way above their intellectual capabilities and we are going to have to learn to accept those limitations of the human species”
"They look for cues in the trainer's body language, or mimic gestures. Apes weren't using language like we would... they just wanted to get food and affection." I'm certain this is what 99.999% of humans do.
@@SujalRajput10 wars happen because we look for things we like, like power, money and to spread our ideals, wich leads to food and social dominance. We're not that different from other species. It gets really complex as we have a more complex social structure but that's kinda the base yknow.
@@jacomvs8607 I am not justifying war by any means, but some of the earliest human fossil show evidence of violence. In fact, when surveying a new site one the very first thing an archaeologist will look for is weapons. War has been around as long as humans came to be. Even other apes, have been find to engage in act of murder, just for revenge and homicide. There is definitely some link between intelligence and aggression. Some links to actual footage- ruclips.net/video/4XP6T1CMgBQ/видео.html ruclips.net/video/BVAiY1kLTUE/видео.html
You need to see Koko’s reaction to when she was told her cat died or how she desires to be a mother. She expresses emotion, yeah maybe not to human level, but it’s a lot more than just asking for food. Her friend Mike recalls how his mother was shot and had a her throat cut by poachers, “bad men kill mother loud sharp noise, cut throat” he’s not saying that just to get an orange.
@@igor6815 if she understands the concept of killing, the concept of bad, and the concept of human, she can express the idea of a bad man killed her mother
@@Slothi_Deathi Think the point is that if she's been conditioned to repeat those words in exchange for something, then it's not an expression of an idea or an original thought or emotion.
Actually Koko often combined concepts to express new ones she didn't have the vocabolary for. If I'm not wrong she signed "finger bracelet" to express ring.
She did but scientists don’t like to think that any kind of animal can actually communicate; it would make experimenting on them/ pouring chemicals into their eyes less “morally ambiguous”
She also knew how to sign sadness when her cat friend died, during the emotion of it. Surely practicing the association from an emotion to a word is what creates the gesture to create the meaning.
"These are amazing, intelligent animals who do communicate a lot in their own way, and maybe if I stop wanting them to be furry, little humans, I might really get to know them" Well said
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much-the wheel, New York, wars and so on-whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man-for precisely the same reasons.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
bruh imagine being an ape trying to understand our language: human: "can you put the pineneedles in the refrigerator" ape: "lady wtf are you talking about"
Dude was prolly like “You don’t even look like me” “ what are you even saying!” “Is this thing trying to speak to me or...”
4 года назад
Don't be foolish enough to think primates will ever think or talk like human beings fer crissake! They're further back in the evolutionary tree, they just don't have the IQ. BUT, given their position in evolution they're pretty damned smart!
Horace Hogsnort I agree that they don’t have IQ but they aren’t “further back” on the evolutionary tree. We evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, not from modern chimpanzees. They evolved too, just not in the same direction we did
It means she had an association for water and for birds. It's a leap to suggest she was saying "water bird" We can teach lots of animals to make associations between actions, like sitting when they hear "sit" or reacting to other signals. This isn't demonstrably different.
doesnt matter. because its not humans that are being judged. its the animal. either way the animal shows comprehension of sign language. and even if it points at seperate concepts (water and bird) it is still correct. since a swan... usually sits on water.
Koko asked for a kitten and was sad when she only got a toy kitten. When she then got a real kitten she was really happy and cared for that cat until it died. This clearly shows that she knew what she was aksing for and clearly knew what the stuff she said means.
@@dr.science_0177 well yeah they would smell different but how would we know what a wild gorilla would think of it if its not a natural animal to that habitat or region then it would be clueless what it was you ever seen the video of the orangoutang have a saw contest with a robot one its interesting
Thats not communication though. My dog wags his tale on the wall next to my front door to symbolise him wanting to go on a walk. He's not understanding language.
It's clear that they have some level of understanding, even if they're just using it to get what they want, if they didn't understand that at least they wouldn't use the signs at all, this is how evolution works, teach a male and female ape to sign, even if it's basic, their children will learn faster because it not taught by you, it's taught by the parents,,, you mention coco but there is another ape that those same people taught to sign and he was asked about his parents, he described the killings of his parents and the situation, in a very brief but direct manner, all the same, he said , noise, trouble, throat cut, this wasn't him trying to get something, he was describing a memory, is that not an understanding of the language?
@@navarrmh8773 I never implied it would take one generation, the implocation was that it would be more effective to teach apes to communicate with us, that was obvious, stop trying to start shit..
"Are apes using language?" while signing and "are apes using language like humans?" are two very different questions. It drives me up the wall that even scientists just assume parity between the two.
@@yomer355 So, problem-solving (just because it's regarding practical things) doesn't count as "curiosity"? Just because "Food" is involved, means they somehow aren't Curious about how to get that food, when problem-solving?!... That they don't crave the knowledge that would allow them to Get that food?!? I've seen countless examples of Apes doing things merely out of curiosity... (and I don't just mean Curious George) Chimps and Monkeys browsing through pictures on social media, just for one example... Just because their thirst for knowledge isn't quite on the same scale as ours, and more often involves more primitive Practical things, doesn't mean they don't have any.
@PewDie-Ton EX so your arguments for dolphins and Neanderthals being smarter than us, is that "dolphins can possibly be more compassionate, than people", and that "Neanderthals had bigger brains"? Seems rather biased that you think that's enough to deem them smarter than us.
You're talking about Michael And you just made an ingenious point and the fact that you have very few likes lets me know you're smarter than the average human real talk, and well said.
You're missing the point, what they're saying is that a chimp might see an orange and will signalise it with a appropriate gesture, followed by "eat" to get it, but it's not the communication scientists were looking for, it was more like a cat meowing in a specific tone while sitting next to it's bowl, nothing really extraordinary in the animal world. What they would consider a breakthrough is if a chimp would see a watermelon after only eating oranges and, for example, look at the scientist and do signs for "orange" and "big" as if to use its knowledge of signs to explain it's confusion by this weird fruit that is shaped like an orange but way bigger in size. To communicate a thought rather than just using the trick they have taught him to get food, that is as impressive as a dog that brings a leash to his owner to signalise he wants to go for a walk, meaning not really impressive. I hope I didn't make it too convoluted lmao
I hate this comment, i knew that if i clicked on the time stamp it would be the damn orange, but i clicked anyways in hopes that it wouldnt be. I was wrong GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU
I'd be fascinated to see the various 'talking' apes in a room together ( or possibly Via Skype for convenience) to get a window on what they'd have to say to each other. It would be incredibly eye opening to know how they'd communicate with the skills they've all been taught. Make it happen.
That would be something to see! I have a feeling, though, that they wouldn't bother. Why use an outside language to communicate with each other, when they can communicate with each other as they always have?
@@Xbangsplot I'm actually quite sure he does. He probably considers it a fantastically sharp rock, and monkeys/apes know how to use sharp rocks to hit things with. They have, in fact, taught apes how to knap stones like our ancestors did and from there how to use the resulting flakes and cores as very basic tools. A knife is just a refined version of a very basic tool. He might not know what it's made out of or quite grasp how sharp it is and why he oughtn't run with it, but he knows he can cut shit with it.
1:50 Doggo had the "WTF, hooman? I understood you. & you just called me dumb on video to be uploaded on internet? I'll pee in your shoes, you insulting hooman." look. LoL
Saying apes learn language just to get food, isn't language just the same shortcut to get different things ? You don't necessarily need to learn why 'food' has two O and ends with D, but you know it means something edible and that's enough.
But humans alone as far as we know are the only animals capable of real abstract thought, and who can express it through language. You as a human can understand the concept of food, can think about food abstractly, make new foods, think back on past foods you've eaten and future foods you'd like to eat. That's the main difference. Sure, you can teach an ape that the word "food" means something they can eat, but what we want to know is if they possess the same ability of abstract thought as we do, where it's not just a trained response, but a higher level of cognition.
thats because words are ideas and not objects. These whole experiments were done on a psychological level. When someone should've considered the linguistic aspect.
I think what people want is to be able to ask the ape questions like what is it like to be an ape and or questions pertaining to how an ape differs from humans but in all reality the ape just wants food and to hang out lol he has no interests and sees no point in having conversations not pertaining to his needs
@@untapped8776 to ask that question you must figure out how to comunicate with them and then ask them yourself problem is all they want is food and attention so its not so easey as we thought next step i would say is to teach them to conveh thought like a simple sentence starter coversations maybe teach an ape the complete english language im sure they can do that if they keep at it then see if yiu can ask the ape like how was your day and then see what kind of responce you get from that
@@untapped8776 Not only human can learn abstraction, now machine also can. There are classification model. Lot of animals can classify and do abstraction, they just don't need to do more with it. Think of how animal can differentiate them from others, that already a good feature of the brain used like ours.
It's the same feeling as wanting to meet an alien species. We want insight into the worlds of other animals. We want to understand them. The only way we can understand them fully is to teach them language. Imagine having a conversation with an ape. Walking down the street with him. You both walk past a female ape and he tells you that he has a crush on her. Or you play video games with him and you have a conversation about your favourite characters. It's an outlandish and probably impossible idea, but how interesting and cool would it be?
C'est d'la bonne Yeah, for example, when we arrive on somewhere unknown, where there are people who speak and act differently, we usually try to teach them how to do stuff our way
Well wouldn't it be interesting to be for say waiting for a bus and a bird flies down as you wait you can strike up a conversation etc x'D like how the early bird gets the worm :-p etc.
That whole complaint is disingenuous because there’s plenty of examples of apes talking about a lot more than just getting food. They can understand abstract concepts, share their emotions, and display sympathy.
Okay tell me when apes can actually understand the true meaning of what humans are saying to them and then I’ll believe it’s real til then I rest my case
@@TheFernandinho I'm not assigning this position to you, but I wonder if some would take that reasoning and consider human kids less inherently valuable than a grown adult ethically. Is there a difference cognitively between a young human child and one of these research apes? Interesting thought, one I wish i hadn't thought of, the possible outcomes seem too scary.
People think theyre smarter than animals, and expect them to learn our complicated language. When they do learn our language, people doubt them. But if the role were reversed, those same people will have no idea and zero clue how to communicated in the animals language. So who is really dumb here?
@@tigremonster1645 Agreed, Idk If its just me but i get chills everytime i see this, it's awkward, i can't explain, its like looking at a mirror of some kind, those apes are not different from what we were some years ago, i just wonder what lucky event happened just so we can formulate our ideas into words but they can hardly do so...
I recall that when koko broke a sink, when asked about it she blamed a cat. No reward for that one koko knew she was in trouble and was making excuses. To me this shows at least some level of understanding.
Well, dogs do that too. Most social animals understand being in trouble and lying. In terms of language, it's evidence of nothing if she didn't make a single complete sentence. If she told a story about the cat doing something, that'd be one thing, but obviously her logic is on the level of a toddler, since the cat couldn't possibly break a sink.
one of the big problems is the fact that english has an extremely complicated and messed up grammatical structure and vocabulary. apes might probably be able to nonverbally communicate in an engineered language such as toki pona.
Ok but sign language is way more straightforward. Spoken English foesnt translate word for word into asl. Like how their are now connective words like your, and, to, or etc
This is so interesting. I feel like these ape studies may have taught us more about our psychology than that of apes. Maybe we are hard wired to be optimistic about teaching language and connecting through verbal communication. We easily delude ourselves into seeing intelligence where there is none. It's probably an evolutionary advantage to overestimate the intelligence of others (and predators).
Don't say that. If it's simple then explain then try explaining all of the meanings of their behavior patterns and the way they think, oh wait you can't.
they don't have "language". they communicate, but lack true language. they can't "talk" about the future or the past. they can't even understand "if-than" statements.
@@Toemmifee I'm sure that if the bonobo pressed a lexigram sign of "butterfly" that he would understand that that word brings him a butterfly thus understanding the meaning of the lexigram which means he understands what it is. Just like if you say "butterfly" to a kid and he points at it. It means he knows what that word means/is
@@Toemmifee agreed. your 1st paragraph i almost replied w/what you followed up w/in the 2nd. What's the difference w/a 2-3 year old child. A human child is only doing it for the result too. I think all animals, including humans, only @ a certain time did things for the hugs or food & then you see it grow from there.
@@jasonvoorhees8899 we would only know if someone kept those animals for years & years & i think w/humans we start to do those things on our own & we bcome selfless or take others feelings into consideration first. Would a monkey give up a banana to another buddy if they asked for it?
Obviously all animals communicate with each other. However each species do this in accordance with their own physical abilities, which includes brain structure and nervous systems. Could we humans effectively communicate with a far more advanced and intelligent species (think aliens) under their terms of what they consider language? Not possible. We would only be able to communicate using our limited abilities and understanding... meaning they would somehow need to figure out how we communicate and reduce their level of understanding to try to get a sense of who we are. We need to do the same when trying to communicate with another species on our planet. We need to learn their language and establish communication that way... humans are a very ego-centric species, which could explain why we often have trouble coexisting (connecting) with the rest of life on the planet.
monomer2 x I agree. You think exactly as I do. See my post. I read yours after I wrote mine. Similar.... If we could really communicate with the animals, we could sort out a lot of things we question through all past centuries, maybe....
We have been excluding animals for a long time by looking at all kinds of abilities to make ourselves look (more) special. We were the only ones to use tools, only to find others animals even crows with tiny brains doing it. Dolphins when first encountering humans, test their subjects to see what sound frequencies they can hear and then transmit only in that range. They are way smarter than we are! They are not filling the ocean with trash, pesticides, and plastic! We, in the civilized world, were born into captivity not knowing our connection to nature. Now, we are going to be flushed from the planet for not fitting in!
I don't think other animals communicate with each other I mean I would imagine it be like a American man who only knows English trying to talk to a Chinese man who only speaks Chinese.
Gorillas in the wild actually use sign language to communicate, so it's not a far fetch that Koko and Michael were able to use a mixture of ASL and what Penny Patterson called gorilla sign language, since some ASL signs were too difficult for them due to anatomical differences. The article "Actually Koko could talk" addresses a lot of the criticism. In addition, the research done by Japanese primatologists on apes' intelligence, memory and language skills shouldn't be ignored.
The problem is Patterson’s claims about what Koko could do are highly questionable. She has never released any raw data or video evidence of Koko signing the way she claimed.
Discrediting primates learning sign language as a means for them only to get what they want is wrong. Koko would have nothing to gain from doing things like expressing her emotions. She was the only primate to truly learn a base level of sign language. 💔 R.I.P Koko
oh please, you couldn't have a conversation with Koko. lots of deaf people watched her or tried "talking" to her. she usually makes no sense, other than asking for things. also, Koko's owner lived off her (she never got a real job and lived of donations), so i would take anything she said with a grain of salt. also, she had NEVER published any of her results in a scientific journal. apes can't really grasp true language. they don't understand future or past tense and "if than" statements. those are signs of true language (as oppose to just communication)
Cool Goby Fish like I said *BASE* *LEVEL* koko could only say sentence fragments but all I think that this video gave koko less credit than deserved. Cc
Cool Goby Fish and yes I heard that she had the sign language to the effect of a three year olds language limits. But in the end it’s still astonishing that an ape can say fragments of sentences
Niles Butler apparently toilet-training cats is bad for them because defection has parts to play in marking territory. In a way you’re flushing down their mark in the house and i guess that makes them uncomfortable.
@@rawonions8827 Yeah, but I´m uncomfortable living with a cat not trained to shit and piss outside or in a box. And I´m paying for the food and rent...so my comfort trumps hers.
"GIVE POT ME GIVE SMOKE POT ME SMOKE POT GIVE ME SMOKE POT GIVE ME YOU" We aren't so different after all nim :) edit: I eventually got some, but its over now :´(
@Timely Fox There’s no distinction between apes and humans because we are apes. Humans always ignore the fact that we are animals when regarding animal intellect.
I remember a story about Koko, they had a hissy fit and ripped a sink out of the wall. When the zookeeper asked what happened, Koko tried to blame a kitten. Funniest shit I've heard in years.
Your Neighbour who sapolsky? He actually had his whole lecture series on behavioural genetics on Yt for free, and makes it pretty easy to understand, plus makes good points. This is the link: ruclips.net/p/PL8B32DE55F47B2A34
Wow Dude and others, I watched the whole lecture and found where he clip is from. ruclips.net/video/SIOQgY1tqrU/видео.html. He starts at 1:18:40 and ends about 1:42:00 ish. Really interesting to watch and I hope it clears up any confusion. Plus this video takes *a lot* from this lecture
They seem to be able to communicate. They've learnt another language, one based on a different species. Their thinking is totally different to ours. No spoken language. I cant even imagine having to think without that. Its not surprising to me that they don't have "human conversations" as they're not human. But it seems easier to teach them sign language than for us to learn theirs.
Lyrics coming at supersonic speed GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOUGIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU
I think that the apes are using language like how dogs learn language, for example, when one of the apes was told to put the needles in the refrigerator, he took it as an order that was one word, he doesn't structure the sentence and analyse the words in the sentence. That is why we could not have said, put the needles and blueberrys in the fridge.
_"Huh! This ape can't use language, it can only use various signs and gestures to communicate what it wants! Toootally not language!"_ -All Knowing Language Definer and Science Person-
Yeah this is hilarious. People speak to get food and they "just combine words" to get new meanings. Scepticism is essential, but this was like "You want this ape to speak. I do not".
There is a lot more to language than doing stringing together some symbols to get a bit of a larger meaning. The entire field of linguistics studies that. And all the known human languages (obviously not the made up ones) are way more complex than that. Just to give an example. If a fly flies towards food that a gesture which shows that it wants to eat or lay eggs. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't count that as language. If you tap on the floor to signalize that you want a bunny to come here then that is communicating. But it isn't really a language. The last example shows a bit more clearly what the monkey can do or not. He can definitely understand nouns. Like blueberry and refrigerator. What I can't say from that short clip is if he understands the verb "put" or if if he just knows that the only thing you can do with blueberry and refrigerator is that you put one into the other. I will now examine what someone can understand in the sentence "can you put the blueberries into the fridge" the position of can = asking someone to do something. Being polite. Most likely he won't understand that. you = the person is speaking to you. how would he react to "can he put the blueberries into the fridge?" Answer would be yes and not to put blueberries into the fridge. put = verb, an specific action. For example if I said "can you eat the blueberries and the fridge" will he also put the blueberries into the fridge? the = is most likely something he won't understand. What's the difference between a blueberry or the blueberry or three blueberries? blueberry and fridge = those are the two words we can almost be certain he understands. into = shows direction. we can't really tell from the sentence alone if he understands those kinds of words. My guess is no, but I can be wrong. Can he differentiate from the sentence alone if it is into, out of, on top of and so on. In conclusion communication and language have a different definition. Something needs a certain level of complexity when it comes to semantics, syntax and grammar to be called a language. Stringing together nouns and verbs doesn't reach the definition of language. I hope you understand why scientists don't really call every form of communication language.
@@benrex7775 Seems like asking "can apes use tools" and concluding they can't because they don't understand the inner workings of a car... apes like koko can communicate their thoughts using abstract things like sounds or images or gestures, which is all that language really is. you wouldn't say an unintelligent person is incapable of using language because you aren't satisfied with what they say...
@@benrex7775 That sentence is full of meaning and is probably perfectly correct in the simplied language he was taught. Translated, it means "Give the orange to me. I will eat the orange. You, give me the orange so I can eat it." If i said "donnez-moi l'orange, je le mangerai" you wouldn't say i cant use language
If Nom signed basically give me orange over and over doesn't that show it knows what it's asking for and the fact that it repeated it could have been frustration at not receiving what it asked for. Also doesn't that show it understands that signing specific things = communication. No matter what you call it talking or communicating or what, they can in a limited fashion. I'm not saying they'll ever get to our level of conversation and I think that's what these people are expecting. Treat them as a 2-3 year old. Our children at that age can communicate with us but we also have to interpret certain things our own children say.... how is this any different?
That animals communicate is not up for debate. Many species have certain vocalizations that are associated with certain things, i.e. alarm calls. What's needed for language though is that they use these things in novel and creative ways. Simple things like calling a swan "water bird" are a good example, you use two words to convey a new meaning. THAT is what language is about, not associating something with something else.
Personally I think all of this actually is a strong argument for Koko having learned over 1000 signs and understanding them. They did do double blinds and experimentations with as much scientific rigor as was possible given the nature of the study. This all seems to me like an example of the anti confirmation bias that I see people in academia have sometimes. There seems to be a belief that if something is not 100% certain than you need to actively preach that it is 100% false. We don’t do that in our day to day life. I can’t prove through any scientific means that my mother, brothers, or wife love me, but I’ve seen enough evidence to be comfortable treating it as fact until proven otherwise. So I guess I’m going to be “running experiments” on it all my life until proven otherwise. But who am I, I suppose? I’m just a big hairless ape, right?
Isn’t it crazy that if you were to fully teach them our language and they grow in intelligence through evolution and generations they would fully understand what we do to animals and how cruel we are to them . If you think about it a Living Being in this Planet just wants to live happily and eat food that’s supplied by Planet Earth. Yet our Lust, Greed, and Power makes us who we are to them, and we take everything for granted now nothing makes us happy, we chase for material things, food is not so natural anymore not even water can be consume normally without added minerals for taste. Anyways, I can see how an AI will want to exterminate the human race... because if anything we should all live in villages make our own homes, planting trees and food, where no one conquer lands, where no one said This land belongs to me you come near we go to war !! Oh wait I want this lake, we should battle it to see who owns it. Its crazy to thinks of scenarios
blake des lauriers | ...Why are people still trying to make Hillary Clinton out to be some kinda villain 4 years after she lost? Trump has done shadier things in office than she did while running. Relax already!
@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth nope. The Clintons are some of the most psychopathic people to have ever been in the White House. Hillary is unambigously way worse than Trump
"GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU"
Love him or hate him hes spitting straight facts
NovanoDelta Yes, He needs 4 Oranges and one hug, santa would love to do it for him :)
Jäger LMAO
hahahahahahah
Is that Trump tweet ?
her* (sorry ik this is late oof)
"give me Y O U"
demands must be met
I shall sacrifice my body to nim
HELP THE APE IS
@@lucaledd xd
pick up lines
Booty warrior
"give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you."
-Albert Einstein
Reading this makes me smarter already
i feel like these 9000 iq plays
of among us
@@ghostnappa7318 AMONG US 🕷🤧
Mario’s time machine
5:01
Literally crying, his words were so tender and graceful. He really touched my heart.
Yes
I think it really says a lot about the current political and economic state of America
GIVE ME YOU 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
LMAO i thought that part was edited to be longer and the original would be “you give me eat orange” or something 💀
Guess I underestimated the power of ape
Sun Tzu has been quiet since this dropped
Psychology: “Having a large vocabulary makes you more attractive”
Me asking out my crush: 5:06
I did the same thing a few years ago. We are now married and expecting a child
Do you mean married? Because martied means to be drunk and cheat just saying
@@itzasup5005 .
@@OutlawAnimations ye married lol
Lol, I'm going to have to try that one
Koko did join concepts. She once signed “ape together strong” and “puny human society will burn” . Also she admitted to thinking that Ed Sheeran seems like he tried too hard and that his music is 7/10 at best. She was a fascinating creature.
😂😭
Lucky for us, she died before the Harambe incident.
@@MrWorshipMe after*
@@rachelleleva5794 wow, I thought she died a long time ago, since the movies with her are so old... Just now realized she only died less than 2 years ago... Still, must have been too old to mobilize the Gorilla forces against us.
@@MrWorshipMe lol
Thing said "give me orange" when it wanted a fkn orange. Im sold.
Level Nine Drow
What the fuck are you talking about, nothing about religious people were brought up in this video at all and it was clearly explained that people stopped believing in this shit cos of skeptics from actual psychologists, blaming religious people is just so ignorant
@@thirdocean3784 He does have a point though! Most religious people attempts a clear division between "human" and "animal". And what does psychologist know? That's pseudo science (just like Freud et al). Ask biologists, geneticists and linguists instead... or intelligent people in general (able to think both openly and critically) that actually study animals for years and therefore can analyse their behaviour better than many narrow minded "experts".
Level Nine Drow nah that monkey just learned that if he signed that, he'd get food so he did it, he was surviving not learning fuckin language
It's not so simple, that's just one interpretation of his behavior. Dogs and rats can be taught to ring bells to get food. Maybe this ape is "ringing a bell" in her use of these words. A true use of language would probably involve understanding that the word "orange" is a label for a fruit. It could
Maybe apes are understanding and participating in language. But I don't think signing for an orange is a clear cut green light for that posit.
@Level Nine Drow Not write a Shakespearian play, but construct/decrypt ideas. That is, true understanding, and not training.
Also, there is nothing wrong with having religious beliefs; only if you personally reject religious ideas can you say there's something wrong about it. Otherwise, it would be like saying "they have philosophical beliefs", etc..
Animals ARE different from humans. That's evident, otherwise, tell me which animals have made a Constitution, built a spaceship, write a book, etc...? Obviously no animals have done so; if you want to claim there's no difference between animals and humans you would be doing so from an ideological position disparaging universal and self-evident human experience.
It's obvious that animals can communicate rudimentary feelings, but to say that they have language, it's linguistically a very far leap to make, and I would propose a counter to you: It seems to me that you want to make animals and humans the same so you can justify an ideological position, even though your own personal experience is radically contrary to such a notion.
Meanwhile, in another universe: Can humans really "talk" to apes?
You mean in the future ?
Planet Of The Apes in a nutshell
can talk really "human" to apes?
@@sakudapikora7545 Yoda?
human can "apes" talk really to?
GIVE ORANGE ME
"Give me orange"
GIVE EAT ORANGE
"Orange the food"
ME EAT ORANGE
"I can eat / want to eat orange"
GIVE ME EAT ORANGE
(An emphasis of previous points)
GIVE ME YOU
"Thank you."
man speaks ape
Ape language
Give me you i think is more you give me
Last bit is a stretch. I think he was just asking the human (you) to give the orange.
hell yea dude
the just wanted food and affection? join the club kids, that's what all humans do anyway.
I was thinking the same thing! We want that too! These chimps were signing asking for, "Hug. Nim. You hug. Me." Asking for hugs and food. That's pretty normal and I'm not surprised at all considering that they're related to us.
But humans are more apt to try to gain ultimate power, rule the world, have money, let alone excess of money that they would never spend in a lifetime just to have it, ect. Things that apes have no use for.
Where exactly do I sign up to join???
Omega Fury: ALL people, including white people, are classified as apes by scientists so your attempt to disparage black people is a huge fail you racist moron.
I think you might be reading too into their comment. They just said that we have the same basic wants as any social animal. Not that they're just as mentally complex as we are.
The best evidence I heard about Koko being intelligent was when she was asked to smile for a photo, she made the sign "smile" with her hands and frowned with her lips. This wasn't an attempt to get treats from the researchers, this was an instance of her knowing what was being asked of her and being a little smart-alec about it, just like a human child might.
Oh my gosh thats adorable
What a gamer
@@TheSexiestGoblin Koko is an epic 420 gamer confirmed 2020?? (Not clickbait)
Dexter Badger AJ monkey epic gamer 2020 god gaming pro confirmed?
Well think ab it like this. She associates the gestures with the words she says. So when she hears smile she’s gonna gesture smile because that’s what she was taught. She didn’t understand what she was smiling for exactly she just knew that when her trainer says smile to do that gesture. The last word “for a photo” completely went over kokos head so therefore it’s not proof at all
“Nim’s longest recorded sentence was-“
*here we go.*
👊
I believe Perry Farrell also said this..
Eminem: "you can rhyme lots of words with orange"
Nim: *"hold my banana"* *_"give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you"_*
this made me kackle like a witch
cackle**
Makes more sense than some popular songs I've heard.
give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you
“Door hinge”
"he uses them to get things he likes"
Don't humans do the same?
the only difference being it's not only food and affection.
@@ichangedmynamebecauseitwas620 it is as a baby or toddler
Not quite. We as humans express ideas. "Food, orange, you, me" could be said to be an idea but it's a very weak idea at that; it expresses not only simple stuff, but at its bottom expresses nothing else that can be expressed by them grabbing an orange from a person and eating it.
We as humans can use language in order to construct spaceships or write a Constitution, to write fiction, etc..., there are various differences between such simple communication and language.
cooolloooll exactly! That’s what I’m saying!
Natanael Lizama There was a time in the past where simple languages was used by humans. It took humans many thousands or millions of years to form a complex language. Languages as well as anything in life evolved through time. For a human and a gorilla or any prime mate to even communicate in these levels is remarkable. Don’t question other living beings intelligence just because you don’t understand them.
Shouldn’t the question be first “how does an ape think?” Then move to “how can we get an ape to think like us?”
The secondary question the latter is why should we make them think like us?
SquidlyTV EXACTLY! Lol
Trashcan Mucous that’s why I trained my cat to scratch my back. Why the hell should she get all the attention!
Luke Redder I bet your backs all fucked up now
Rocatex the scars heal, it’s cool
I went to Iowa State for Linguistics and got to meet Kanzi in the Ape Cognition and Conservation Initiative and I brought him some pine needles which I read he likes to play with and he straight up made a "pog" face in surprise then used his lexigram to ask for other things cuz he made the connection that if I could bring him those I could bring him other stuff. He even gave me directions to where they keep the food and other gifts in the building. I later got to play with him as he ran from side to side I would run along with him and we would tackle the glass in the middle (he strong af) in a game he simply called "chase". He also pointed to the "chase" lexigram then did a kind of specific hand clap until I mimicked it in response. Later he only used the hand clap to mean "chase" cuz he wasnt always near the lexigram. I am typing this while I have one of his finger paintings on my wall as well. Argue all you want about was it language or not, but it definitely was the highest level of communication with an animal I had ever experienced. Due to COVID tho, I probably wont get to meet him again as the place closed down to visitors. But I will always think of Kanzi as a good friend.
I have seen Kanzi on the TV and talk about intelligent, such a smart cookie, I bloody love him ❤️🇬🇧
He made the poggers face?
@@adrianopandolfo monke pog.
The clap/chase part is so so interesting to me!!! That's incredible!!!
the answer is clear: we must learn ape.
Monke uprising
Reject modernity, embrace monke
blueshirttial: Don't you mean "apeanese"?!
@ monkenese
Reject modernity, embrace monke
When he said “give me orange me give eat orange give me eat orange give me you”...i felt that
*d e e p*
😩😪😔🥺
on a spiritual level
People think theyre smarter than animals, and expect them to learn our complicated language. When they do learn our language, people doubt them. But if the role were reversed, those same people will have no idea and zero clue how to communicated in the animals language. So who is really dumb here?
Tigre Monster True. The way they reason and process info is also different. But our language also has a lot of terminology that animals simply won’t understand and won’t be able to use in sentences properly.
And every evening Koko would go back to her room, shake her head and say, "I've been trying to teach those hairless apes how to speak Gorilla for years now, and it seems they will never learn it! Koko sad and wants a kitten."
NO KOKO NO!
Fr dude was prolly talkin shit and the trainers just like “Koko want hug, me sad!?!?”
Koko’s internal conversation:
“….And STILL they got me a lousy stuffed toy first, after I clearly indicated I want a kitten…. so I had to explain the whole thing all over again to them. I sometimes wonder if these humans will EVER learn…. Or maybe it is just something that goes way above their intellectual capabilities and we are going to have to learn to accept those limitations of the human species”
"They look for cues in the trainer's body language, or mimic gestures. Apes weren't using language like we would... they just wanted to get food and affection."
I'm certain this is what 99.999% of humans do.
That’s what I said! 😂
If only that was the case we wouldn't have been fighting so many wars.
@@SujalRajput10 wars happen because we look for things we like, like power, money and to spread our ideals, wich leads to food and social dominance. We're not that different from other species. It gets really complex as we have a more complex social structure but that's kinda the base yknow.
@@jacomvs8607
I am not justifying war by any means, but some of the earliest human fossil show evidence of violence.
In fact, when surveying a new site one the very first thing an archaeologist will look for is weapons.
War has been around as long as humans came to be.
Even other apes, have been find to engage in act of murder, just for revenge and homicide. There is definitely some link between intelligence and aggression.
Some links to actual footage-
ruclips.net/video/4XP6T1CMgBQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/BVAiY1kLTUE/видео.html
Yeah I don't understand why people think this isn't talking
5:01 *harvard wants to know your location*
This was probably the most funniest comment i've ever seen. 😂
Okay that was actually good
@@noahrenschler7210 lmao fuck outta here
@@timothybryce1948 hahaha
@@noahrenschler7210 Hahahahahahaahahahaha
You need to see Koko’s reaction to when she was told her cat died or how she desires to be a mother. She expresses emotion, yeah maybe not to human level, but it’s a lot more than just asking for food.
Her friend Mike recalls how his mother was shot and had a her throat cut by poachers, “bad men kill mother loud sharp noise, cut throat” he’s not saying that just to get an orange.
also the fact that when koko heard that robin williams died, she sad still for hours with a quivering lip
Cmon bad men kill my mother. It's so obvious researchers made it up to make a point.
@@igor6815 bruh what?
@@igor6815 if she understands the concept of killing, the concept of bad, and the concept of human, she can express the idea of a bad man killed her mother
@@Slothi_Deathi Think the point is that if she's been conditioned to repeat those words in exchange for something, then it's not an expression of an idea or an original thought or emotion.
Actually Koko often combined concepts to express new ones she didn't have the vocabolary for. If I'm not wrong she signed "finger bracelet" to express ring.
which is exactly what I've done would do if I was in Koko's situation
She did but scientists don’t like to think that any kind of animal can actually communicate; it would make experimenting on them/ pouring chemicals into their eyes less “morally ambiguous”
And an orangutan named Chantak call water bottles “car water” since his trainer is always taking one out of her car
She called a watermelon a "water fruit." too.
She also knew how to sign sadness when her cat friend died, during the emotion of it. Surely practicing the association from an emotion to a word is what creates the gesture to create the meaning.
"Me eat, time eat." Will go down as the most impactful quotes to ever exist
People in dark web be like: 5:06
Holy fuck thats good
tfw you're discounted.
nice one xD
😂
*give me*
ÿœū
4:59 Is what you came for.
Thank you, Ludwig showed us a gem
Lmao Carson stream people here :)
I unironically am watching this I watched a 10 sec clip of the orange thing a while ago though
My hero
"These are amazing, intelligent animals who do communicate a lot in their own way, and maybe if I stop wanting them to be furry, little humans, I might really get to know them"
Well said
yes
Well I saw this comment then it got synchronize with the video in end
@rapture ocotber 16, 2021 nice information
Nobody:
Them: Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you
Absolutely. A recent example is the gorilla mom showing her baby to a human mom. They comminicate maybe we are not listenin
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much-the wheel, New York, wars and so on-whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man-for precisely the same reasons.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
i heard when kanzi was asked to "put water on the carrot" he threw the carrot outside in the rain
I love animals so much
LOOOOL fucking DUMBASS
Hahaha well played by kanzi xD cause throwing a carrot in the rain will definetly "put water on the carrot"
Well that's his water supply
thats so fucking clever. humans wouldnt think of that answer
“..That doesn’t mean this dog understands English.”
Dog: *Slowly turns to look at camera confused.*
LMAO deadass my dog just did that😭
I believe they do understand english but choose to hide it
Dogs can understand a little bit of English though
@@DreamHarmonyHubthey don't want to pay rent bro.
bruh imagine being an ape trying to understand our language:
human: "can you put the pineneedles in the refrigerator"
ape: "lady wtf are you talking about"
“What the fuck could this possibly accomplish”
Dude was prolly like “You don’t even look like me” “ what are you even saying!” “Is this thing trying to speak to me or...”
Don't be foolish enough to think primates will ever think or talk like human beings fer crissake! They're further back in the evolutionary tree, they just don't have the IQ. BUT, given their position in evolution they're pretty damned smart!
Horace Hogsnort I agree that they don’t have IQ but they aren’t “further back” on the evolutionary tree. We evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, not from modern chimpanzees. They evolved too, just not in the same direction we did
@ "further back in the evolutionary tree" that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works xD
6:36 Oh my God whose bright idea was it to give him a knife
this is how it begins...
XD
Relax she has a shield. +100 HP
Wait A Minute...
Thus, sauda was invented
If Washoe signed "water" and "bird" at the swan, wouldn't that still mean he knew sign language?
If the sign is correct then it should be seen as credible. If he didnt get it, he would have signed random things. He didn't.
Washoe was female.
Also the video says they suspect she was pointing out water and the bird separately.
@@Keaze Thanks. I thought I heard "he" though.
Rob Ingersoll pretty much convinced me.
It means she had an association for water and for birds. It's a leap to suggest she was saying "water bird"
We can teach lots of animals to make associations between actions, like sitting when they hear "sit" or reacting to other signals. This isn't demonstrably different.
doesnt matter. because its not humans that are being judged. its the animal. either way the animal shows comprehension of sign language. and even if it points at seperate concepts (water and bird) it is still correct. since a swan... usually sits on water.
Koko asked for a kitten and was sad when she only got a toy kitten. When she then got a real kitten she was really happy and cared for that cat until it died. This clearly shows that she knew what she was aksing for and clearly knew what the stuff she said means.
True but a normal gorilla could tell something as lifeless like a toy cat from an actual cat
@@dr.science_0177 well yeah they would smell different but how would we know what a wild gorilla would think of it if its not a natural animal to that habitat or region then it would be clueless what it was you ever seen the video of the orangoutang have a saw contest with a robot one its interesting
Thats not communication though. My dog wags his tale on the wall next to my front door to symbolise him wanting to go on a walk. He's not understanding language.
@@jaredgarbo3679 nah he understands thats the way out and that if hes close to it you might notice and come over and get close to it too 😂😂🤟🏼
This comment doesn't make any sense. Literally no correlation
It's clear that they have some level of understanding, even if they're just using it to get what they want, if they didn't understand that at least they wouldn't use the signs at all, this is how evolution works, teach a male and female ape to sign, even if it's basic, their children will learn faster because it not taught by you, it's taught by the parents,,, you mention coco but there is another ape that those same people taught to sign and he was asked about his parents, he described the killings of his parents and the situation, in a very brief but direct manner, all the same, he said , noise, trouble, throat cut, this wasn't him trying to get something, he was describing a memory, is that not an understanding of the language?
Nath Rob I would love to watch parents teach there children sign language and watch as it goes on and how they would use it in packs
That takes much longer than one generation...
@@navarrmh8773 I never implied it would take one generation, the implocation was that it would be more effective to teach apes to communicate with us, that was obvious, stop trying to start shit..
I don't think this is how evolution works, but your point is still interesting. Do you remember the name of this other ape?
@@henrilemoine3953 Micheal was the other gorilla I believe
"Nim Chimpsky" is such an underrated name omg
“Give me orange you” I think he wants to speak with the president
Lol
No, that would be "Give me lumpy orange you"
Haha orange man bad
@@karnewarrior orange man bad
I taught my cat "High five for Trump 20 20". Adorable, and smarter than any Dem. these days.
dog: egyptian hieroglyphics
tickle: minecraft enchantment table
blueberry: ancient greek alphabet
yogurt: yogurt
monkey: orange
hotel: trivago
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Trivago: Hotel
@@Uncle_Hargle nooooooooooooo
5:01 me trying to reach the minimum word count in an essay but I’m too stupid to say anything intelligible
Very funny and original 10/10.
Lol, that's kinda relatable 😂
How boys ask for orange: give me an orange
How girls ask for an orange:
@@cythism8106 I wish a girl would say "give me you" to me 😔
"Are apes using language?" while signing and "are apes using language like humans?" are two very different questions. It drives me up the wall that even scientists just assume parity between the two.
5:01 he speaking the language of gods
mdr
dead ahaha
LMAO
Mour de rire?
@@kobebrian318 mort de rire. You were close.
"They just want affection and food"
So... just like humans?
Not really, humans do crave knowledge. You watched this video not to get any food or affection. You were curious. Other apes aren't really like that.
@@yomer355 So, problem-solving (just because it's regarding practical things) doesn't count as "curiosity"?
Just because "Food" is involved, means they somehow aren't Curious about how to get that food, when problem-solving?!...
That they don't crave the knowledge that would allow them to Get that food?!?
I've seen countless examples of Apes doing things merely out of curiosity... (and I don't just mean Curious George)
Chimps and Monkeys browsing through pictures on social media, just for one example...
Just because their thirst for knowledge isn't quite on the same scale as ours, and more often involves more primitive Practical things, doesn't mean they don't have any.
@@TechySeven ok, I agree, they do show some curiousity sometimes, but not nearly as much as humans.
@PewDie-Ton EX what do you mean by "smart"? How are dolphins and Neanderthals smarter than sapiens?
@PewDie-Ton EX so your arguments for dolphins and Neanderthals being smarter than us, is that "dolphins can possibly be more compassionate, than people", and that "Neanderthals had bigger brains"? Seems rather biased that you think that's enough to deem them smarter than us.
I saw a video when a gorilla with sign language talked about his parents dying so I think they understand
Can you give me a link?
Daniel Antony its called Michael’s story
You're talking about Michael And you just made an ingenious point and the fact that you have very few likes lets me know you're smarter than the average human real talk, and well said.
@@danielantony1882 You'll find that under the documentary of koko.
Atomic Pressure Well I wouldn’t go that far but thanks for the compliment
Monke: Give me eat orange
Human: Give me eat orange
🤔
“They don’t understand you. They just learn to associate words with actions and objects.”
Is that not the definition of a freaking language?
You're missing the point, what they're saying is that a chimp might see an orange and will signalise it with a appropriate gesture, followed by "eat" to get it, but it's not the communication scientists were looking for, it was more like a cat meowing in a specific tone while sitting next to it's bowl, nothing really extraordinary in the animal world. What they would consider a breakthrough is if a chimp would see a watermelon after only eating oranges and, for example, look at the scientist and do signs for "orange" and "big" as if to use its knowledge of signs to explain it's confusion by this weird fruit that is shaped like an orange but way bigger in size. To communicate a thought rather than just using the trick they have taught him to get food, that is as impressive as a dog that brings a leash to his owner to signalise he wants to go for a walk, meaning not really impressive.
I hope I didn't make it too convoluted lmao
Not quite...
Why isn’t this top comment. It should be this, not “GIVE ORANGE.”
No, no it isn't! Language is much more than that.
@@rowanbcapr Because the comment is wrong...
when he said *GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU*
I felt that😔😔
Lol
More wise words from the fbi
Time stamp?
@@Aaokke0 5:01
5:02 reminds me of the first time I tried to talk to a girl.
I hate this comment, i knew that if i clicked on the time stamp it would be the damn orange, but i clicked anyways in hopes that it wouldnt be. I was wrong GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU
gedo0261 niga where tf else would he put a time stamp the fucking outro
@@gedo0261 ofcourse you hate it, ur a psycopath who cant understand humor.
itscold LMAO
6:35 there's nothing more terrifying than a great ape holding a kitchen knife
How about a great ape holding an Ak47 😶🌫️
The video- A well made and thoughtful study on whether we can truly communicate with animals.
The comments- give me eat orange
Apes can understand what certain words mean just like dogs. It doesn't mean they understand it in a way they can make a sentence from it
lol exactly
Blueberry blueberryblueberry
@dead channel give me eat orange
@@mewmewkittens8486*give me you*
I'd be fascinated to see the various 'talking' apes in a room together ( or possibly Via Skype for convenience) to get a window on what they'd have to say to each other. It would be incredibly eye opening to know how they'd communicate with the skills they've all been taught. Make it happen.
Lucille de Lorme Omg yes I need to see that happen
That would be something to see! I have a feeling, though, that they wouldn't bother. Why use an outside language to communicate with each other, when they can communicate with each other as they always have?
Same, sadly, both Koko and Chantek have died.
Maybe there is a reason it hasn't happened yet lucille..... they will take over. >_>
or just work on your 3rd eye open your crown chakra. You can hear thoughts then and you'll be able to communicate. It's there you know. Work on it
6:35 When he picked up that knife I felt like shit was gonna go bad
Same 😂🤣
its unlikely the monkey knows what a knife is let alone its potential as a weapon.
@@Xbangsplot
I'm actually quite sure he does. He probably considers it a fantastically sharp rock, and monkeys/apes know how to use sharp rocks to hit things with.
They have, in fact, taught apes how to knap stones like our ancestors did and from there how to use the resulting flakes and cores as very basic tools. A knife is just a refined version of a very basic tool. He might not know what it's made out of or quite grasp how sharp it is and why he oughtn't run with it, but he knows he can cut shit with it.
bro if an ape wants to kill a human it doesnt need a knife to do it
@@karnewarrior Some apes actually use large sticks, kind of like spears to hunt.
1:50 Doggo had the "WTF, hooman? I understood you. & you just called me dumb on video to be uploaded on internet? I'll pee in your shoes, you insulting hooman." look. LoL
Saying apes learn language just to get food, isn't language just the same shortcut to get different things ? You don't necessarily need to learn why 'food' has two O and ends with D, but you know it means something edible and that's enough.
But humans alone as far as we know are the only animals capable of real abstract thought, and who can express it through language. You as a human can understand the concept of food, can think about food abstractly, make new foods, think back on past foods you've eaten and future foods you'd like to eat. That's the main difference. Sure, you can teach an ape that the word "food" means something they can eat, but what we want to know is if they possess the same ability of abstract thought as we do, where it's not just a trained response, but a higher level of cognition.
thats because words are ideas and not objects. These whole experiments were done on a psychological level. When someone should've considered the linguistic aspect.
I think what people want is to be able to ask the ape questions like what is it like to be an ape and or questions pertaining to how an ape differs from humans but in all reality the ape just wants food and to hang out lol he has no interests and sees no point in having conversations not pertaining to his needs
@@untapped8776 to ask that question you must figure out how to comunicate with them and then ask them yourself problem is all they want is food and attention so its not so easey as we thought next step i would say is to teach them to conveh thought like a simple sentence starter coversations maybe teach an ape the complete english language im sure they can do that if they keep at it then see if yiu can ask the ape like how was your day and then see what kind of responce you get from that
@@untapped8776 Not only human can learn abstraction, now machine also can. There are classification model. Lot of animals can classify and do abstraction, they just don't need to do more with it. Think of how animal can differentiate them from others, that already a good feature of the brain used like ours.
4:54 the moment we've been waiting for.
4:59 for the impatient ones.
@@thesandguardianofthesand not enough, 5:01
5:06 the terrifying one
@@thesandguardianofthesand yay
@@JoeMemes no is 7:43
The urge us human have to make animals like us is really weird...
It's the same feeling as wanting to meet an alien species.
We want insight into the worlds of other animals. We want to understand them.
The only way we can understand them fully is to teach them language.
Imagine having a conversation with an ape. Walking down the street with him. You both walk past a female ape and he tells you that he has a crush on her. Or you play video games with him and you have a conversation about your favourite characters. It's an outlandish and probably impossible idea, but how interesting and cool would it be?
Well, considering the fact that humans are the most intelligent creatures, us trying to act like animals would be a step backward
I wish we could get them to like housework.
C'est d'la bonne Yeah, for example, when we arrive on somewhere unknown, where there are people who speak and act differently, we usually try to teach them how to do stuff our way
Well wouldn't it be interesting to be for say waiting for a bus and a bird flies down as you wait you can strike up a conversation etc x'D like how the early bird gets the worm :-p etc.
Just the fact that the Apes were able to associate a symbol that doesn't even look like whatever it is that's pretty intelligent
"They only want to convey when they're hungry or want affection" .. Uh, yeah, sounds a lot like HUMANS to me. lmfao
That just sounds like a kid. "I want pizza! I want ice-cream! I want a toy!
@@stuff5757 yes but a kif grown up of it, learning other ways to express herself
A grown ape still talk like a kid
That whole complaint is disingenuous because there’s plenty of examples of apes talking about a lot more than just getting food. They can understand abstract concepts, share their emotions, and display sympathy.
Okay tell me when apes can actually understand the true meaning of what humans are saying to them and then I’ll believe it’s real til then I rest my case
@@TheFernandinho I'm not assigning this position to you, but I wonder if some would take that reasoning and consider human kids less inherently valuable than a grown adult ethically. Is there a difference cognitively between a young human child and one of these research apes? Interesting thought, one I wish i hadn't thought of, the possible outcomes seem too scary.
You cannot even have intelligent conversations with most people, so ...
People think theyre smarter than animals, and expect them to learn our complicated language. When they do learn our language, people doubt them. But if the role were reversed, those same people will have no idea and zero clue how to communicated in the animals language. So who is really dumb here?
Tigre Monster you
@@uwotm8153 If he's dumb, then what that makes of you?
@@tigremonster1645 Agreed, Idk If its just me but i get chills everytime i see this, it's awkward, i can't explain, its like looking at a mirror of some kind, those apes are not different from what we were some years ago, i just wonder what lucky event happened just so we can formulate our ideas into words but they can hardly do so...
@@snape539 an ubermensch genius
I recall that when koko broke a sink, when asked about it she blamed a cat. No reward for that one koko knew she was in trouble and was making excuses. To me this shows at least some level of understanding.
Yeah, people straight denying it like that monkey didn't put the pine needles in the fridge
Well, dogs do that too. Most social animals understand being in trouble and lying. In terms of language, it's evidence of nothing if she didn't make a single complete sentence. If she told a story about the cat doing something, that'd be one thing, but obviously her logic is on the level of a toddler, since the cat couldn't possibly break a sink.
@@bruhnova8917
HE PUT THE PINE NEEDLES IN
IN THE FRIDGE
@@skinkroot Isn't that a bit more advanced "lay down and roll over" a dog would hear?
@@wurlmon5191 of course. i just thought it was funny
6:48 My man/ape literally did what he was asked for, what more do ya want?
one of the big problems is the fact that english has an extremely complicated and messed up grammatical structure and vocabulary. apes might probably be able to nonverbally communicate in an engineered language such as toki pona.
Sasha Koshka no
@Rap Centraltv no
And spanish is even worse 😂
Ok but sign language is way more straightforward. Spoken English foesnt translate word for word into asl. Like how their are now connective words like your, and, to, or etc
What ze fuq is toki puna
Give Orange
Me Give Eat Orange
Me Eat Orange
Give Me Eat Orange
Give Me Y O U
Oskidoodle IM DEAD 😂😂😂
Trump's latest tweet.
boutchie06 epic comment bro drumpf bad!!!
I laughed 😂😂😂
Isn't this what we all feel
Me after I had too much to drink.
*GIVE, BEER, ME, GIVE, DRINK, BEER, ME, DRINK, BEER, GIVE, ME, DRINK, BEER, GIVE, ME, RUM AND COKE*
Protector 95 lmaoo
lol
Lmao
Well i suppose thats one way to get what you want
Give you number for A.A...
This is so interesting. I feel like these ape studies may have taught us more about our psychology than that of apes. Maybe we are hard wired to be optimistic about teaching language and connecting through verbal communication. We easily delude ourselves into seeing intelligence where there is none. It's probably an evolutionary advantage to overestimate the intelligence of others (and predators).
They just use a simpler form of language....
I'm sure the scientists would've said that of it was the case
The scientists against the tests were just really stupid.
Don't say that. If it's simple then explain then try explaining all of the meanings of their behavior patterns and the way they think, oh wait you can't.
they don't have "language". they communicate, but lack true language. they can't "talk" about the future or the past. they can't even understand "if-than" statements.
@@blokin5039 If your smart you don't have to study everything just so you know
5:07 I was legitimately scared when he said GIVE ME YOU
I just took it as him asking "you" to give him an orange.
It's not rare in ASL to sign, when referring to something like "you", it somewhere at the beginning as well as at the end. Just reiteration.
He means Trump
@Apentogo HE MEANS TRUMP
z ed 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂AM WEAK
When he said "blueberry blueberry blueberry" I felt that
4:59 Nims Longest Recorded Sentence meme (Your welcome)
2:38 HE DID THE WOAH
He predicted the future
Made me laugh, not just exhale air through my nose
shut up liberal
youre annoying please go away
i snorted
"Mom, I want an orange"-spoken by human child, so thus communication.
"GIVE ME EAT ORANGE EAT ORANGE YOU" -spoken by an ape, not communication.
Wut.
@@Toemmifee I'm sure that if the bonobo pressed a lexigram sign of "butterfly" that he would understand that that word brings him a butterfly thus understanding the meaning of the lexigram which means he understands what it is. Just like if you say "butterfly" to a kid and he points at it. It means he knows what that word means/is
@@Toemmifee good point , but how'll we know ?
@@Toemmifee agreed. your 1st paragraph i almost replied w/what you followed up w/in the 2nd. What's the difference w/a 2-3 year old child. A human child is only doing it for the result too. I think all animals, including humans, only @ a certain time did things for the hugs or food & then you see it grow from there.
@@jasonvoorhees8899 we would only know if someone kept those animals for years & years & i think w/humans we start to do those things on our own & we bcome selfless or take others feelings into consideration first. Would a monkey give up a banana to another buddy if they asked for it?
Piximae the give me you is like YOU, give me an orange. Like some older languages that spoke backwards
Obviously all animals communicate with each other. However each species do this in accordance with their own physical abilities, which includes brain structure and nervous systems. Could we humans effectively communicate with a far more advanced and intelligent species (think aliens) under their terms of what they consider language? Not possible. We would only be able to communicate using our limited abilities and understanding... meaning they would somehow need to figure out how we communicate and reduce their level of understanding to try to get a sense of who we are. We need to do the same when trying to communicate with another species on our planet. We need to learn their language and establish communication that way... humans are a very ego-centric species, which could explain why we often have trouble coexisting (connecting) with the rest of life on the planet.
we are pretty advanced to communicate with aliens, given our abstract thinking.
monomer2 x I agree. You think exactly as I do. See my post. I read yours after I wrote mine. Similar....
If we could really communicate with the animals, we could sort out a lot of things we question through all past centuries, maybe....
We have been excluding animals for a long time by looking at all kinds of abilities to make ourselves look (more) special. We were the only ones to use tools, only to find others animals even crows with tiny brains doing it.
Dolphins when first encountering humans, test their subjects to see what sound frequencies they can hear and then transmit only in that range. They are way smarter than we are! They are not filling the ocean with trash, pesticides, and plastic!
We, in the civilized world, were born into captivity not knowing our connection to nature. Now, we are going to be flushed from the planet for not fitting in!
Max Girouard earth is too small for us
I don't think other animals communicate with each other I mean I would imagine it be like a American man who only knows English trying to talk to a Chinese man who only speaks Chinese.
Gorillas in the wild actually use sign language to communicate, so it's not a far fetch that Koko and Michael were able to use a mixture of ASL and what Penny Patterson called gorilla sign language, since some ASL signs were too difficult for them due to anatomical differences. The article "Actually Koko could talk" addresses a lot of the criticism. In addition, the research done by Japanese primatologists on apes' intelligence, memory and language skills shouldn't be ignored.
The problem is Patterson’s claims about what Koko could do are highly questionable. She has never released any raw data or video evidence of Koko signing the way she claimed.
Discrediting primates learning sign language as a means for them only to get what they want is wrong. Koko would have nothing to gain from doing things like expressing her emotions. She was the only primate to truly learn a base level of sign language. 💔 R.I.P Koko
oh please, you couldn't have a conversation with Koko. lots of deaf people watched her or tried "talking" to her. she usually makes no sense, other than asking for things. also, Koko's owner lived off her (she never got a real job and lived of donations), so i would take anything she said with a grain of salt. also, she had NEVER published any of her results in a scientific journal. apes can't really grasp true language. they don't understand future or past tense and "if than" statements. those are signs of true language (as oppose to just communication)
Cool Goby Fish like I said *BASE* *LEVEL* koko could only say sentence fragments but all I think that this video gave koko less credit than deserved. Cc
Cool Goby Fish and yes I heard that she had the sign language to the effect of a three year olds language limits. But in the end it’s still astonishing that an ape can say fragments of sentences
it's very interesting, but the results are greatly overstated by Koko's owner
Cool Goby Fish does video not count as scientific data?
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you"
I think he wants a pear
nah man i think he wants an apple bro
no he wants cherries
Y’all are all wrong, he wants a tv.
I thought he wants a pencil
When I saw koko sit on a toilet, I knew they are capable of rational thinking.
paco ramon really now? so was your grand revelation? 😂
Since I have yet to see a fully toilet trained bird, I definitely agree.
weeelll - cats and pigs can be toilte trained.
Niles Butler apparently toilet-training cats is bad for them because defection has parts to play in marking territory. In a way you’re flushing down their mark in the house and i guess that makes them uncomfortable.
@@rawonions8827 Yeah, but I´m uncomfortable living with a cat not trained to shit and piss outside or in a box.
And I´m paying for the food and rent...so my comfort trumps hers.
0:00 Intro Section
1:17 Gua
2:09 Viki
2:41 Washoe
3:30 Koko
4:00 *Nim*
5:38 Kanzi
"GIVE POT ME GIVE SMOKE POT ME SMOKE POT GIVE ME SMOKE POT GIVE ME YOU"
We aren't so different after all nim :)
edit: I eventually got some, but its over now :´(
Hector Santos I need weed
Lol
Hector Santos -joe rogan
ha
😂
Teach chimp how to sign
Chimp: "why do humans kill each other"
Human: "end the test immediately "
Interestingly, chimps kill each other too.
Wild chimp clans wage war with each other all the time.
chimp:iq of over9,000!
Monkey kill monkey too
@Timely Fox There’s no distinction between apes and humans because we are apes. Humans always ignore the fact that we are animals when regarding animal intellect.
For any Ludbuds -> 4:59 FeelsBirthdayMan
THANK YOUUUUU
So funny
God bless
4:59 You can hear him holding back laughter.
I remember a story about Koko, they had a hissy fit and ripped a sink out of the wall. When the zookeeper asked what happened, Koko tried to blame a kitten. Funniest shit I've heard in years.
no its not, Koko didnt even turn into a pickle
That professor might need to be reminded that because he takes a contrarian position doesn't automatically make him right.
Your Neighbour After all flat earth or’s are contrary and
Forreal dude. Guy was so cocky and confident about his opinion.
Your Neighbour who sapolsky? He actually had his whole lecture series on behavioural genetics on Yt for free, and makes it pretty easy to understand, plus makes good points. This is the link: ruclips.net/p/PL8B32DE55F47B2A34
Wow Dude and others, I watched the whole lecture and found where he clip is from. ruclips.net/video/SIOQgY1tqrU/видео.html. He starts at 1:18:40 and ends about 1:42:00 ish. Really interesting to watch and I hope it clears up any confusion. Plus this video takes *a lot* from this lecture
Yeah but his Saab 900, and intellectual narcissism make him believe he is.
They seem to be able to communicate. They've learnt another language, one based on a different species. Their thinking is totally different to ours. No spoken language. I cant even imagine having to think without that. Its not surprising to me that they don't have "human conversations" as they're not human. But it seems easier to teach them sign language than for us to learn theirs.
Because they're too stupid to teach us their language. And also, their language doesn't even exist.
why is everyone talking about Nim with the "give me orange" while I'm talking about Kanzi with the *"Blueberry BLUEBERRY BLUEBERRY"*
Lyrics coming at supersonic speed
GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU GIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOUGIVE ORANGE ME GIVE EAT ORANGE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME EAT ORANGE GIVE ME YOU
Apple
We're no strangers to love
U know the rules and so do i
I think that the apes are using language like how dogs learn language, for example, when one of the apes was told to put the needles in the refrigerator, he took it as an order that was one word, he doesn't structure the sentence and analyse the words in the sentence. That is why we could not have said, put the needles and blueberrys in the fridge.
Koko can sign. The end
_"Huh! This ape can't use language, it can only use various signs and gestures to communicate what it wants! Toootally not language!"_
-All Knowing Language Definer and Science Person-
Yeah this is hilarious. People speak to get food and they "just combine words" to get new meanings. Scepticism is essential, but this was like "You want this ape to speak. I do not".
There is a lot more to language than doing stringing together some symbols to get a bit of a larger meaning. The entire field of linguistics studies that. And all the known human languages (obviously not the made up ones) are way more complex than that.
Just to give an example. If a fly flies towards food that a gesture which shows that it wants to eat or lay eggs. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't count that as language. If you tap on the floor to signalize that you want a bunny to come here then that is communicating. But it isn't really a language.
The last example shows a bit more clearly what the monkey can do or not. He can definitely understand nouns. Like blueberry and refrigerator. What I can't say from that short clip is if he understands the verb "put" or if if he just knows that the only thing you can do with blueberry and refrigerator is that you put one into the other.
I will now examine what someone can understand in the sentence "can you put the blueberries into the fridge"
the position of can = asking someone to do something. Being polite. Most likely he won't understand that.
you = the person is speaking to you. how would he react to "can he put the blueberries into the fridge?" Answer would be yes and not to put blueberries into the fridge.
put = verb, an specific action. For example if I said "can you eat the blueberries and the fridge" will he also put the blueberries into the fridge?
the = is most likely something he won't understand. What's the difference between a blueberry or the blueberry or three blueberries?
blueberry and fridge = those are the two words we can almost be certain he understands.
into = shows direction. we can't really tell from the sentence alone if he understands those kinds of words. My guess is no, but I can be wrong. Can he differentiate from the sentence alone if it is into, out of, on top of and so on.
In conclusion communication and language have a different definition. Something needs a certain level of complexity when it comes to semantics, syntax and grammar to be called a language. Stringing together nouns and verbs doesn't reach the definition of language.
I hope you understand why scientists don't really call every form of communication language.
@@benrex7775 Seems like asking "can apes use tools" and concluding they can't because they don't understand the inner workings of a car... apes like koko can communicate their thoughts using abstract things like sounds or images or gestures, which is all that language really is. you wouldn't say an unintelligent person is incapable of using language because you aren't satisfied with what they say...
@@Justin-tp1mx Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you.
@@benrex7775 That sentence is full of meaning and is probably perfectly correct in the simplied language he was taught. Translated, it means "Give the orange to me. I will eat the orange. You, give me the orange so I can eat it." If i said "donnez-moi l'orange, je le mangerai" you wouldn't say i cant use language
If Nom signed basically give me orange over and over doesn't that show it knows what it's asking for and the fact that it repeated it could have been frustration at not receiving what it asked for. Also doesn't that show it understands that signing specific things = communication. No matter what you call it talking or communicating or what, they can in a limited fashion. I'm not saying they'll ever get to our level of conversation and I think that's what these people are expecting. Treat them as a 2-3 year old. Our children at that age can communicate with us but we also have to interpret certain things our own children say.... how is this any different?
That animals communicate is not up for debate. Many species have certain vocalizations that are associated with certain things, i.e. alarm calls. What's needed for language though is that they use these things in novel and creative ways. Simple things like calling a swan "water bird" are a good example, you use two words to convey a new meaning. THAT is what language is about, not associating something with something else.
I
Blueberry
Blueberry
Blueberry
Blueberry
Blueberry
Blueberry
*BLUEBERRY*
Apes, the original spammers.
Potato
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you"
A true philosopher.
they've surpassed us humans in terms of intelligence
It’s fun and games,until the apes start creating civilizations.
Personally I think all of this actually is a strong argument for Koko having learned over 1000 signs and understanding them. They did do double blinds and experimentations with as much scientific rigor as was possible given the nature of the study. This all seems to me like an example of the anti confirmation bias that I see people in academia have sometimes. There seems to be a belief that if something is not 100% certain than you need to actively preach that it is 100% false. We don’t do that in our day to day life. I can’t prove through any scientific means that my mother, brothers, or wife love me, but I’ve seen enough evidence to be comfortable treating it as fact until proven otherwise. So I guess I’m going to be “running experiments” on it all my life until proven otherwise. But who am I, I suppose? I’m just a big hairless ape, right?
Biologically you are a big (comparatively) hairless ape
I think people should stop trying to teach them our language, we should study packs and try to learn the language they use
There would be variation throughout population i reckon
They probably "talk" mostly about food and such in nature, like the apes on this video.
God I think we would learn a lot about medicinal plants and behaviour
@@coolstoolgames8374 I agree
Isn’t it crazy that if you were to fully teach them our language and they grow in intelligence through evolution and generations they would fully understand what we do to animals and how cruel we are to them . If you think about it a Living Being in this Planet just wants to live happily and eat food that’s supplied by Planet Earth. Yet our Lust, Greed, and Power makes us who we are to them, and we take everything for granted now nothing makes us happy, we chase for material things, food is not so natural anymore not even water can be consume normally without added minerals for taste. Anyways, I can see how an AI will want to exterminate the human race... because if anything we should all live in villages make our own homes, planting trees and food, where no one conquer lands, where no one said This land belongs to me you come near we go to war !! Oh wait I want this lake, we should battle it to see who owns it. Its crazy to thinks of scenarios
i mean to be fair whenever i'm finally desperate enough to talk face to face with people it's usually because i need food
I hear ya there 😆
5:01 yo he spittin' bars
5:00 is simultaneously incredibly funny and also really intimidating.
I came here for the “original” sentence and was expecting the shorter version bc I was curious about what he really said. Well now I know.
Time stamp for me 4:57
"Hey listen kid i dont have much time you can save everyone from 2020 by-"
- Last words of Harambe
KGB he had shit on Hillary
blake des lauriers | ...Why are people still trying to make Hillary Clinton out to be some kinda villain 4 years after she lost? Trump has done shadier things in office than she did while running. Relax already!
@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth nope. The Clintons are some of the most psychopathic people to have ever been in the White House. Hillary is unambigously way worse than Trump
Cross Legged Owl and Bill Gates is best buddies with them, that’s a horrifying though. Watch “Out Of Shadows Official” on RUclips, also Living Waters
Stephanie R. S. | I've been seeing this recently... everyone declaring Bill Gates is evil suddenly... what's that about?