Fighting with two swords wasn't limited to one-on-one duals in Europe. For example, Domingo Luis Godinho's 1599 manual addresses fighting multiple opponents as well as a single foe. His style features cuts not so different from what you demonstrate here. The Academia da Espada - Ton Puey channel on here has demonstrations. William Harrison made the following complaint in 1577 in his description of England: "Some desperate cutters we haue in like sort, which carrie two daggers or two rapiers in a sheath alwaies about them, wherewith in euerie dronken fraie they are knowen to worke much mischiefe; their swords & daggers also are of a great length, and longer than the like vsed in anie other countrie, whereby ech one pretendeth to haue the more aduantage of his enimie." This suggests paired swords saw at least occasional employment in chaotic civilian conflicts.
Nice one, didn't know about those guys carrying a shield with both hands and two dao on their hip! Super cool historical data. Also I wholeheartedly agree with the part about chinese dual wielding being applicable to many weapons. That's what's so nice about chinese martial arts, they have an holistic approach that seeks to attain a "global" skill. Double dao is phenomenal as an introduction to dual wielding since it's a weapon that can both cut and thrust, so once you know how to use two dao you can translate it to any pair of weapons, adjusting only to the specifics of it. Different weapons may be cut or thrust centric, may have different point of balance, etc. But all of them follow the same principles and patterns of swinging, parrying and blocking.
One thing I always thought that never got addressed is that for a civilian carrying a pair of swords doesn't mean you can't also carry a sheild. But would give civilian a way to be armed with a light an convenient arms and still have they means to carry a small sheild. I would love to know if this was done in China. Also great video I am always happy to learn more.
If you are referring to small shields like a buckler they existed during the Han dynasty but not in later periods. These small small shields obviously aren’t as protective as larger ones so it is not clear if they have an advantage over simply dual wielding.
Great talk boss, and lovely form (more than I could ever manage!) I know you didn’t have both at the same time, but given the longer blade it might be interesting to contrast the handling of the LK oxtail with the Hanwei. Also, Peter Dekker and I were doing some limited review on the English language nickname “Chinese broadsword”, and I made a small video about it. Let me know if you have any additional insight!
Thanks for watching! I still have lots of work to do on my form too. There may be an opportunity to compare those two blades we will have to wait and see.
Silla had scabbards with 2 swords in it and silla is influenced by goguryo and goguryo is influenced by china. I think thats a kind of a clue that there might be dual wielding in china around the sui or tang dynasty
Very interesting thing about dual-wielding swords in Chinese martial arts is that the swords tend to be matching in length and there doesn't seem to be a mismatching sword set like rapier + dagger or katana + wakizashi that I know of. I wonder why, since using mismatching weapons does give the benefits of two identical length short weapons for maneuverability while also allowing one weapon the ability to give better reach vs. two swords of identical length that would collide with each other if they're too long.
This is a great point! I have seen images of at least one antique jian which also has a dagger. Although it may be considered a throwing implement. I believe that having two identical length weapons allows for attacking with both at the same time which can be difficult to deal with especially if the opponent only has one weapon. Aside from that, I suspect that there are some key differences in the footwork and other aspects of fighting. Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to give a satisfactory answer, but this is something I will be considering going forward!
Always heard over and over how the pole is king of the battlefield and how amazing pole arm fighters are basically undefeatable. Then I saw a guy with two swords wail on a guy with the pole arm. The guy with two swords basically won the interaction. Then came all the excuses for the pole arm. "He didn't have enough room, he wasn't good to begin with", blah blah blah. I always go back to Conan the barbarian "what is a blade to the hand that wields it?" Skillful fighters can kill you with their bare hands.
Thanks everyone for watching! Let me know what would be your melee weapon of choice in a historical/apocalyptic setting for self defense! I would like to give a shoutout to Pak Mei Sifu Jeremy Thomas who taught me the fundamentals of shuangdao. You can check out his channel here: ruclips.net/user/Guitarsamurai1134 Also thanks to Shildwache Potsdam for allowing me to use their footage of Marozzo's dual wielding techniques! You can find there channel here: ruclips.net/channel/UCF4DcPYBKsv08D8HxCZHsFg
If I just wanted the best chance of winning a fight, I'd carry a hand-&-a-half sword with a 38ish-inch blade & some hand protection, along the lines of the so-called Swiss sabre. I base this on George Silver's high rating of his two-handed sword & the respect Gérard Thibault d'Anvers gave the two-handed sword. In both cases, the two-handed swords they had in mind seem to have been about the size of a standard HEMA feder. Basket-hilted sword & alehouse dagger or rapier & dagger strike me as the other arguably optimal sidearm options. Or basket-hilted sword & buckler, if those are allowed. However, all those high-end sidearms & sidearm sets would be a significant inconvenience to wear. & I'm not strong & skilled enough to wield cutting weapons to full effect. So I'd probably go with a light cut-&-thrust sword with medium-coverage guard & a blade of around 35 inches paired with a modest dagger. Not the best, but still ok & more manageable for daily carry than the optimal sidearms.
If I could get my hands on one, I'd get a schiavona and a buckler to match. And of course a hatchet+knife+silky saw which are essential tools for venturing into the wilderness. But a more realistic loadout would be a good machete or billhook along with a self-made buckler and the trinity of hatchet+knife+silky saw.
My lk chen silver swallow miao dao would be my main weapon and as a backup close quarters weapon/tool one of my kailash kukris, probably the mutiny kus it's a bit more robust as a tool/weapon hybrid
That's strictly assuming I wouldn't be in a battle with tons of people with clashing blades and armor, if that were the case I'd want a big shield and my lk chen flying phoenix jian so I could just be a turtle with a relatively long pokie bit
In world where i would have to use melee weapons i think personally i would go with sword that can be used with both hands, but works ok as single handed as well then maybe shorter blade as backup, and if im skilled enough to use for dual wielding. Sort of similar to japanese katana, and wakizashi combo even though not necessarily those two blades. The other blade been shorter might make it easier not to interfiere with the other weapon, and they might be quite easy to carry in every day life together. Then actual battlefield completely different weapons, but i think that could work in civilian context quite well. Then if i would know i end up in duel, and my opponent also uses sword i would go with something like rapier. It seems quite ideal dueling sword because its reach, and hand protection.
Wouldn't bandit gangs during times of civil unrest also employ projectile weapons that would still favour a shield instead of a second dao? Perhaps not in an every day carry situation, but certainly if a largeish group of bandits was looking to ransack a small village.
Yes, shields were also common in situation where people knew they were going to a fight. shungdao are good for their ability to be worn more conveniently than a shield
I think long blades make sense for oxtails since they have thin blades, but relatively shorter blades make sense for liuyedao/waist saber and yanlingdao since they tend to be thicker like katana.
I've trained on Butterfly Knives and shorter/thicker for dual wielding seems best. Although a buckler is probably better for people who can't used tools with both hands.
Concur. Being a small man this is best. Heavy short trapping dual swords are optimal for inside work and negates reach of longer blades. Easy to carry too.
You can thrust with basically any steel sword if it is not too flexible. The Niuweidao is very optimized for cutting though, so it definitely will not thrust as well as many other swords.
@@thescholar-general5975 yeah, it looks like they have a Chinese mace, a leaf gim, and a luiyedao new for 2022. Their swords are made by Huanuo so they should be good!
You can see in Europe traditions dual vielding against multiple opponents too, in Godhino. And even thou blades are similar / same like in Marozzo, motions are in fact extremely wide; most of them are design to gain and controler certain space. Very nice weapon and cutting! It really comes from XIX age?
for Chinese martial arts, dual wielding need lots of blocking, evading and positioning. As for single sword fight is more about your empty hand, to control your opponent's hand to avoid second attack form him/her.
The ones that are used in Wushu are specifically designed to be very fast non lethal tools for performance purposes. They can draw blood if they hit someone, but they lack the rigidity necessary to actually drive through and split a target.
Hi, longtime fan, I have a request/question, one that is driving me crazy. What kind of daggers, combat knives were used in Chinese history, and what are they called. I have tried doing numerous searches in English and get basically no results on google, and the only images that show up in image searches seem to be modern replicas, or fantasy weapons. Many of us in the west are aware of the huge variety of daggers and knives in European history and their importance and use, Rondell daggers, basilards, dirks, seax etc. and we even know of famous knives like the Japanese Tanto, but when it comes to Chinese knives / daggers I know nothing. I even think of the jeweled dagger talked about in the Romance of the three kingdoms novel, but what would a high status knife even have looked like during the Han?
Sorry to get to your question so late. To be honest we don’t know as much about knives in China as other places because not many people have studied them, China included. However, there are still some things we know and I will talk about this more in the future. In the meantime here are a few basics. A dagger is called Qishou 匕首 in chinese and this term is ancient. During the Warring States to Han dynasty small utility knives with ring pommels were fairly common. Tanto-like knives can also be found in later dynasties as well as knives similar to those found in trousse sets. Also there is a this ambiguous category known as short dao duandao which are usually viewed as short swords but some of them can be as short or even shorter than a gladius which really blurs the line between sword and knife. There are thousands of antique duandao floating around and you may find what you are looking for there.
Dual wielding in Europe does show up earlier than the Renaissance Here are two different pics from some illustrated manual showing knights duel welding in a duel myarmoury.com/talk/files/img_49881_573.jpg lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Dn5nc5rosiU/TjAlWgrdVYI/AAAAAAAAA3o/jHti1GQBUfc/s720/IMG_4986.JPG
I've always been in love with the concept of dual wielding. Sword and Dagger is my favorite combination.
Fighting with two swords wasn't limited to one-on-one duals in Europe. For example, Domingo Luis Godinho's 1599 manual addresses fighting multiple opponents as well as a single foe. His style features cuts not so different from what you demonstrate here. The Academia da Espada - Ton Puey channel on here has demonstrations. William Harrison made the following complaint in 1577 in his description of England: "Some desperate cutters we haue in like sort, which carrie two daggers or two rapiers in a sheath alwaies about them, wherewith in euerie dronken fraie they are knowen to worke much mischiefe; their swords & daggers also are of a great length, and longer than the like vsed in anie other countrie, whereby ech one pretendeth to haue the more aduantage of his enimie." This suggests paired swords saw at least occasional employment in chaotic civilian conflicts.
I had a feeling there was some HEMA material I was missing. Thanks for bringing this up!
Nice one, didn't know about those guys carrying a shield with both hands and two dao on their hip! Super cool historical data. Also I wholeheartedly agree with the part about chinese dual wielding being applicable to many weapons. That's what's so nice about chinese martial arts, they have an holistic approach that seeks to attain a "global" skill. Double dao is phenomenal as an introduction to dual wielding since it's a weapon that can both cut and thrust, so once you know how to use two dao you can translate it to any pair of weapons, adjusting only to the specifics of it. Different weapons may be cut or thrust centric, may have different point of balance, etc. But all of them follow the same principles and patterns of swinging, parrying and blocking.
Great video. My old kung fu school taught forms with these double swords, except they were the single scabbard variant you mentioned.
It is my hope that more companies start to offer cutting quality shuangdao which fit in the scabbard together.
@@thescholar-general5975 same here. I've been looking for such a dyad since 2019.
One thing I always thought that never got addressed is that for a civilian carrying a pair of swords doesn't mean you can't also carry a sheild. But would give civilian a way to be armed with a light an convenient arms and still have they means to carry a small sheild. I would love to know if this was done in China.
Also great video I am always happy to learn more.
If you are referring to small shields like a buckler they existed during the Han dynasty but not in later periods. These small small shields obviously aren’t as protective as larger ones so it is not clear if they have an advantage over simply dual wielding.
Dual wielding just looks badass,great video!
Great talk boss, and lovely form (more than I could ever manage!) I know you didn’t have both at the same time, but given the longer blade it might be interesting to contrast the handling of the LK oxtail with the Hanwei.
Also, Peter Dekker and I were doing some limited review on the English language nickname “Chinese broadsword”, and I made a small video about it. Let me know if you have any additional insight!
Thanks for watching! I still have lots of work to do on my form too. There may be an opportunity to compare those two blades we will have to wait and see.
Silla had scabbards with 2 swords in it and silla is influenced by goguryo and goguryo is influenced by china. I think thats a kind of a clue that there might be dual wielding in china around the sui or tang dynasty
I will look into it!
A civilian context or specialized security agents. Great vid!
Thank you for your instruction!
Two swords in one scabbard I first learn from Avatar The Last Airbender with Zuko's swords.
Yes, Zuko uses a pair of niuwei dao that are inspired by historical examples.
Do you know if they can provide the option for custom order with screw nut in place of pinned.
I am not sure, but it is worth asking.
Very interesting thing about dual-wielding swords in Chinese martial arts is that the swords tend to be matching in length and there doesn't seem to be a mismatching sword set like rapier + dagger or katana + wakizashi that I know of. I wonder why, since using mismatching weapons does give the benefits of two identical length short weapons for maneuverability while also allowing one weapon the ability to give better reach vs. two swords of identical length that would collide with each other if they're too long.
This is a great point! I have seen images of at least one antique jian which also has a dagger. Although it may be considered a throwing implement. I believe that having two identical length weapons allows for attacking with both at the same time which can be difficult to deal with especially if the opponent only has one weapon. Aside from that, I suspect that there are some key differences in the footwork and other aspects of fighting. Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to give a satisfactory answer, but this is something I will be considering going forward!
Long short gives long guard and short guard.
Always heard over and over how the pole is king of the battlefield and how amazing pole arm fighters are basically undefeatable. Then I saw a guy with two swords wail on a guy with the pole arm. The guy with two swords basically won the interaction. Then came all the excuses for the pole arm. "He didn't have enough room, he wasn't good to begin with", blah blah blah. I always go back to Conan the barbarian "what is a blade to the hand that wields it?"
Skillful fighters can kill you with their bare hands.
*I, Sith Lord Zanetti, approve of this excellent video! I subscribed!* 🖤🖤🖤🖤✅✅✅✅
Thanks everyone for watching! Let me know what would be your melee weapon of choice in a historical/apocalyptic setting for self defense!
I would like to give a shoutout to Pak Mei Sifu Jeremy Thomas who taught me the fundamentals of shuangdao. You can check out his channel here: ruclips.net/user/Guitarsamurai1134
Also thanks to Shildwache Potsdam for allowing me to use their footage of Marozzo's dual wielding techniques! You can find there channel here: ruclips.net/channel/UCF4DcPYBKsv08D8HxCZHsFg
If I just wanted the best chance of winning a fight, I'd carry a hand-&-a-half sword with a 38ish-inch blade & some hand protection, along the lines of the so-called Swiss sabre. I base this on George Silver's high rating of his two-handed sword & the respect Gérard Thibault d'Anvers gave the two-handed sword. In both cases, the two-handed swords they had in mind seem to have been about the size of a standard HEMA feder. Basket-hilted sword & alehouse dagger or rapier & dagger strike me as the other arguably optimal sidearm options. Or basket-hilted sword & buckler, if those are allowed. However, all those high-end sidearms & sidearm sets would be a significant inconvenience to wear. & I'm not strong & skilled enough to wield cutting weapons to full effect. So I'd probably go with a light cut-&-thrust sword with medium-coverage guard & a blade of around 35 inches paired with a modest dagger. Not the best, but still ok & more manageable for daily carry than the optimal sidearms.
If I could get my hands on one, I'd get a schiavona and a buckler to match. And of course a hatchet+knife+silky saw which are essential tools for venturing into the wilderness. But a more realistic loadout would be a good machete or billhook along with a self-made buckler and the trinity of hatchet+knife+silky saw.
My lk chen silver swallow miao dao would be my main weapon and as a backup close quarters weapon/tool one of my kailash kukris, probably the mutiny kus it's a bit more robust as a tool/weapon hybrid
That's strictly assuming I wouldn't be in a battle with tons of people with clashing blades and armor, if that were the case I'd want a big shield and my lk chen flying phoenix jian so I could just be a turtle with a relatively long pokie bit
In world where i would have to use melee weapons i think personally i would go with sword that can be used with both hands, but works ok as single handed as well then maybe shorter blade as backup, and if im skilled enough to use for dual wielding. Sort of similar to japanese katana, and wakizashi combo even though not necessarily those two blades. The other blade been shorter might make it easier not to interfiere with the other weapon, and they might be quite easy to carry in every day life together. Then actual battlefield completely different weapons, but i think that could work in civilian context quite well. Then if i would know i end up in duel, and my opponent also uses sword i would go with something like rapier. It seems quite ideal dueling sword because its reach, and hand protection.
Are there any good reproductions of double dao or double jian? The short ones look really fun.
Wouldn't bandit gangs during times of civil unrest also employ projectile weapons that would still favour a shield instead of a second dao? Perhaps not in an every day carry situation, but certainly if a largeish group of bandits was looking to ransack a small village.
Yes, shields were also common in situation where people knew they were going to a fight. shungdao are good for their ability to be worn more conveniently than a shield
I also prefer shorter swords. As a reference point how tall are you? I'm 6'2"/185cm.
I am fairly average in height, ~5’8” or 17 cm
@@thescholar-general5975 I'm assuming this 17x cm. lol
@@WhatIfBrigade yes lol I meant 173
I think long blades make sense for oxtails since they have thin blades, but relatively shorter blades make sense for liuyedao/waist saber and yanlingdao since they tend to be thicker like katana.
I've trained on Butterfly Knives and shorter/thicker for dual wielding seems best. Although a buckler is probably better for people who can't used tools with both hands.
Concur. Being a small man this is best. Heavy short trapping dual swords are optimal for inside work and negates reach of longer blades. Easy to carry too.
Thank you for the informative video! :D
Thanks for watching!
Can you go through and use them for stabbing? Or they are just for cutting?
You can thrust with basically any steel sword if it is not too flexible. The Niuweidao is very optimized for cutting though, so it definitely will not thrust as well as many other swords.
I saw that GMS Outdoors/Cold Steel Knives are releasing a lot of Chinese weapons this year! Are you going to do any reviews on them?
I haven't heard much about this project before now. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!
@@thescholar-general5975 yeah, it looks like they have a Chinese mace, a leaf gim, and a luiyedao new for 2022. Their swords are made by Huanuo so they should be good!
You can see in Europe traditions dual vielding against multiple opponents too, in Godhino. And even thou blades are similar / same like in Marozzo, motions are in fact extremely wide; most of them are design to gain and controler certain space. Very nice weapon and cutting! It really comes from XIX age?
for Chinese martial arts, dual wielding need lots of blocking, evading and positioning. As for single sword fight is more about your empty hand, to control your opponent's hand to avoid second attack form him/her.
Axe and katana combine meant for beheading and cut woods
If use two hand that why shoulder shield is use to deflect and absorb arrows
do you consider the "bar mace" a sai on steroids
Yes, I think that the bar mace in many ways is the more powerful forefather to the sai.
Are these real niuwey Dao's wobbly? Like the ones they use in wushu?
The ones that are used in Wushu are specifically designed to be very fast non lethal tools for performance purposes. They can draw blood if they hit someone, but they lack the rigidity necessary to actually drive through and split a target.
@@thescholar-general5975 thanks for the answer.
So u say that, the real ones can also Drive through objects easily , right?
Hi, longtime fan, I have a request/question, one that is driving me crazy. What kind of daggers, combat knives were used in Chinese history, and what are they called. I have tried doing numerous searches in English and get basically no results on google, and the only images that show up in image searches seem to be modern replicas, or fantasy weapons. Many of us in the west are aware of the huge variety of daggers and knives in European history and their importance and use, Rondell daggers, basilards, dirks, seax etc. and we even know of famous knives like the Japanese Tanto, but when it comes to Chinese knives / daggers I know nothing. I even think of the jeweled dagger talked about in the Romance of the three kingdoms novel, but what would a high status knife even have looked like during the Han?
Sorry to get to your question so late. To be honest we don’t know as much about knives in China as other places because not many people have studied them, China included. However, there are still some things we know and I will talk about this more in the future. In the meantime here are a few basics. A dagger is called Qishou 匕首 in chinese and this term is ancient. During the Warring States to Han dynasty small utility knives with ring pommels were fairly common.
Tanto-like knives can also be found in later dynasties as well as knives similar to those found in trousse sets.
Also there is a this ambiguous category known as short dao duandao which are usually viewed as short swords but some of them can be as short or even shorter than a gladius which really blurs the line between sword and knife. There are thousands of antique duandao floating around and you may find what you are looking for there.
中国不仅有双刀还有双剑双钩双钺双锤双鞭双锏双矛（枪）。另外就是中国的双刀双剑很多是可以装在一个刀鞘里的，握柄和护手是半圆的，两把相对正好合在一起。从存量来看其实也不算太少，尤其是镖师会用这个。毕竟一般人不会带大盾牌赶路你拿着两把刀有优势。此外这些双刀一般还比较短，很轻盈。
嗯嗯，我同意你的意见，谢谢你的支持！
不挑大槍，挑雙刀...?
这种牛尾刀几乎是在清朝中后期才出来的，不光民用，也是一种职官刀，当时清朝武备废弛，就这种大刀片子好多其实还没有雁翎刀重，这种刀算是一种时代发展的妥协产物了。
Your sword to heavy it's will hard to deflect
🤠👍🏿
Good luck just tried be more quicker
Dual wielding in Europe does show up earlier than the Renaissance
Here are two different pics from some illustrated manual showing knights duel welding in a duel
myarmoury.com/talk/files/img_49881_573.jpg
lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Dn5nc5rosiU/TjAlWgrdVYI/AAAAAAAAA3o/jHti1GQBUfc/s720/IMG_4986.JPG