The video came out 3 minutes ago but your comment was two *days* ago? RUclips has been crazy recently (The video was probably unlisted for a while, as mentioned by someone else)
This was such a fun video Tug! This felt very informative, well structured and your voice recording sounded entertaining. Was very cool to see Adam on here, I know he was very excited to be apart of it! Hope you're having a great time in Europe with your wife! 👍👍👍
Here's a little theory I thought of regarding the Sad story of Henry: Walling Henry up in the tunnel wasn't done to teach Henry a lesson. It was a scam so that the NWR could make an excuse to fund the creation of a second tunnel for the mainline. According to appended Railway Series lore, there was only one tunnel on the mainline with the two tracks meeting before and after the tunnel portals. When Henry refused to leave the tunnel, the directors of the NWR suggested walling Henry up, therefore quarantining the tunnel. If the tunnel was quarantined, they could either gain funding through insurance or an external benefactor to build a new tunnel. Once the new tunnel was done, Henry could be let out. Henry may have even been let out of the rear entrance of the tunnel at night to assist in construction of the new tunnel, as the back of the tunnel was never modified.
Omg thank you so much for choosing me as pick of the week!!! It’s an honor you enjoyed my video - lovely theories btw, well done to the both of you. :)
Here's a fun spanner in the works on the Henry theory. There actually are precedents for engines being replaced, but the replacement officially being the same engine as the one it replaced. To give one example, the Great Western Railway replaced the Vale of Rheidol Railway's Prince of Wales, but claimed it was an overhaul as an accounting cheat. (My theory is that an engine can pass its identity on, so Henry can be two engines but also have identical memories. This also explains how Iron Duke can remember the Broad Gauge even though he is a modern replica)
The GWR seemed to love both approaches to "rebuilds." On one hand you have 16 Castles with almost nothing in common with their Churchward-designed "basis". On the other hand, you have the Dukedogs being literal hybrids but being classed, and named, as "new" engines
I prefer to view Thomas and Duck not getting along as more of an unintentional running gag than anything. That being said, the detail of Thomas not whistling at Duck in Spotless Record is even funnier considering Duck was just involved in the accident that Thomas caused.
He left out the part in Saved You where Thomas accidentally destroyed Duck's water tower and unlike Toby and the Scottish Twins who he helps, he doesn't help Duck (somewhat justified a bit as it's not like he can pull another water tower out of thin air).
* A couple other things about the Daisy theory: * There's a Thomas Comes To Breakfast book released around when S2 aired that has BoCo be the engine who replaces Thomas, not Daisy. * Elsbridge's set is specifically rebuilt in Season 2, and that rebuilt set seemingly is only in Daisy and Percy's Predicament. * Percy's Predicament uses a rushed set too - the "Pin Down Brakes" hill is the road above the station, with tracks laid on top of it. * Absolutely no Daisy merch whatsoever was made in accordance with Season 2, in comparison to the tons everyone else got. * Daisy's nameboard is filmed on the New Harbour set, evidently one of the last sets filmed, in comparison to everyone else's on the Tidmouth set, one of the first filmed.
Ngl Daisy sodor finest will be so interesting because she was such an afterthought in the model era not to mention the controversy with her being too sexist etc
Daisy being a late decision in Series 2 suddenly makes so much sense! I can also see how 'Breakfast' could be tweaked to have BoCo come do Thomas' work instead. But on the other hand, I don't think Britt, David and company wanted to stray too far from the books. Yet.
The rebuild only applies to the scenes where the station isn't in shot. When we see the sheds behind the station in "Daisy", they're in the standard season 2 configuration, not the rebuilt version.
You know it’s a good tug video when they bring back the door joke from almost 10 years ago. Now we just need the unawnsered Thomas questions 3 with Thomas theorist! XD
Love the dieselD199 mention! Honestly i feel like he’s become an underrated legend these days since he barely uploads and his formats completely changed over the years but I loved his Tomy series
A small thing with the daisy theory, it’s further evidenced by her name board being the only one not at Tidmouth BoCo, Duck, Donald, Douglas, Diesel, Bill, Ben, Trevor and Harold all have their nameboards at Tidmouth, yet Daisy is at the New Harbour
I just thought of this a few weeks ago. New Harbor and Elsbridge are also the only sets on which Daisy appears on more than once, yet she doesn't appear at Tidmouth PERIOD in Season 2
Now knowing about the two-cab diesels having two faces in the RWS makes James’s line about “How do they know if they’re coming or going?” In James and the Diesel Engines make so much more sense now.
This is what I love the most about the fandom. Just having plain old fun with our little ideas based on either real life events, events in the media, or just our own head canons. Nothing is fact or necessarily wrong, just completely up to interpretation. Well done here Tug! Nice touch letting Thomas Theorist take part too!
Yep. The T-1s. Of which four remain. 2100, being restored to operation. 2101, displayed as AFT No. 1 at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, 2102 owned and currently operating excursions on the Reading & Northern, and 2124 on display at Steamtown in Scranton.
In my own headcanon, the flying kipper crash happened earlier in 1933 and in order to get Henry repaired (due to a lack of money from the Great Depression) Topham allowed Stanier to experiment on Henry, rebuilding him into what would become the prototype for the black 5
Well Topham and Stanier did an apprenticeship together so I imagine there on friendly terms and funds aren't much of an issue, if anything I think the reason why Stanier turned Henry into a black 5 was because it would be much cheaper to turn Henry into a working prototype rather than build a brand new one altogether
Here's some point I have to go off of the theories discussed here: 1. ThomasWoodenRailway speculated that the rear faces of the Culdee Fell engines were analogous to the rear cameras used by modern cars, and that they would become "dormant" when the front face is used and vise versa. 2. Thomas and Duck's dynamic reminds me of the ones in _The Big Bang Theory,_ where the characters' clear disdain for each other makes me question more and more why any of them are still friends, let alone how the marriages have survived. Thomas and Duck's friendship probably works the same way, where there's almost always that underlying tension, and like the friendship between Thomas and Percy, would probably only be possible with engines that have to work together on a regular basis. But as Thomas doesn't work with Duck on a regular basis, the two haven't yet worked out the kinks in their relationship. 3. Going off what was insinuated about Mrs. Percival not being faithful…their children could also have been conceived from a fertility clinic, which would open up a can of worms over Peregrine's medical inadequacies. Either that, or they're in an open relationship. With all of Mr. Percival's traits, either of these would not feel out of place.
@ I can't believe this possibility never occurred to me, especially given that I have used this same reasoning to disprove the theory that Riley was adopted prior to the events of _Inside Out._
The Duke one really hurt. I wish we had seen him more than we did. He was my favorite character from season 4, and it genuinely irks me that he never got the opportunity to shine in the later seasons
I never liked the "no-faces while off sodor", it's a bit silly, and there is so much that contradict it; so I straight up ignore it, and just accept that all locomotives regardless of location have faces and are alive
My personal headcanon for this is that faces exist on all engines worldwide, however only on Sodor can humans see and interact with them. I will admit there are many contradictions to it but in my mind it makes more sense than Awdry's rule or any of the other theory I've came across regarding it
@@christianpark5155@christianpark5155 Maybe in your headcanon, it makes sense, but generally speaking, many things, especially in the TV show, contradict this. I'm talking about specials like BWBA or Thomas and the Royal Engine.
15:14 sounds like a question for unanswerable Thomas questions 3. Also for Duck and Thomas hating each other is that in Journey Beyond Sodor, when Thomas sings about missing his friends, when it shows most of the engines it shows engines like Diesel, while Duck doesn't appear
The Lead Poisoning theory is very interesting. Sounds like the plot of a Black Mirror episode. You could go a lot of ways after the island becomes delirious seeing faces on trains from all the lead.
Wow! Never thought I’d hear The Unlucky Tug & the Thomas Theorist interact. And in the first time they did, it caught me by surprise! Also I firmly believe that TUGS actually takes place on the Island of Sodor.
I kind of view Lady the same way most people view Proteus as strange as that might sound. I feel like she was one of the really, really early standard gauge engines on Sodor with so little information about her in the railway records that stories were soon made about how she was a "magical" engine for "joining the railways together" when in reality she was most likely a freelance designed locomotive who helped with the N.W.R. construction. Heck maybe she even taught Edward the same way that Edward taught Thomas in The Adventure Begins and the blue #2 engine is the only one who knows the truth about Lady but decides to not say anything because of the amount of inspiration her legendary tales gives to the others on the Island of Sodor?
Actually a neat theory, considering people some see Lady as Brit's "self insert" I kind of think it ties in together in a bittersweet way since Brit was the one who brought the show to life
Please have more guest Trampy appearances on your channel. I love seeing him go into a downward spiral when he’s on your channel. His reactions are hilarious.
regarding the Two Henrys theory, I just like to think that they re-used the Gresley style boiler and stuck it to a new firebox and a Black 5 frame. That's why he seems slightly bigger than a regular Black 5 in the illustrations. Maybe that's just a me thing, but I've always thought Stanier designs had thinner boilers compared to other British steamers, so that's my excuse.
Honestly that's a good possibility since back in the days of steam, it was much cheaper to rebuild a steam locomotive rather than build a brand new one altogether
I like to think Bill and Ben work at the Ffarquar Quarry during the Winter season when the claypits are too cold. As for BoCo, he could have just been relocated to one of the unseen lines like Kirk Ronan.
My favourite theory (which is arguably closer to just subtext than a theory) is that all the faces in the Railway Series are metaphorical. It’s a nice and elegant solution to many of the problems posed in this video (two faces, two Henrys, faces outside of Sodor, etc.). This is supported by Awdry’s insistence on grounding the events of his series in reality, in addition to crews often sharing traits with their engine (e.g. the crews of the Caledonian twins being related) and so can stand in for the engine’s personality in some stories.
53:25 One afternoon, as Toby was puffing cheerfully along the line, he heard a whispered conversation between his driver and a workman. 'It seems Mrs. Percival is spending quite a lot of time with someone who isn't Mr. Percival,' the driver remarked, glancing at Toby with a knowing smile. Toby's wheels clattered in surprise. 'Oh dear,' he thought, 'what a muddle that is!'
There are several IRL cases where locomotives were officially “rebuilt” but actually wholly replaced - it happened to one of the Vale of Rheidol locomotives at Swindon, for example - in such cases, these engines were still considered their former selves in most respects. IRL it was mostly done for tax and legal reasons but I could absolutely see Stanier using the same process for Henry and in doing so basically transferring his “soul” to a new body. I mean, locomotives in the Thomas universe are able to retain their identities through all manner of rebuilds and parts replaced - it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a way of completely replacing an engine while keeping its personality and memories as I’ve suggested.
Kind of makes me think of the whole "Ship of Theseus" thing, i.e. how much of the original is left when you've replaced all the parts. In the instance of living engines, I like to think that it's a similar premise since over time the engines would need new boilers, cylinders, wheelsets and all manner of parts replaced. Keeping in mind the stories take place over the course of at least some 70 years, I really doubt the engines wouldn't have received boiler replacements/overhauls by that point (since they're typically mandated every 10 or 15 years iirc) and that doesn't seem to have any effect of their memories or such.
My theory on the faces is like this, it depends on whether the photographers are actually interested in the engines or rolling stock, like maybe those pictures of faceless engines were not taken by railway enthusiasts, it does make sense as the non-sentient pictures are mainly from the Talyllyn and Bluebell, both famous early heritage railways. These heritage railways would have gotten a lot of press coverage back in the day, the photographers were just doing a job, aka not really interested in the locomotives, while the sentient pictures were by railway enthusiasts. This makes sense as Awdry and Teddy Boston are canon in the RWS universe, so maybe the pictures with faces in the books were taken by them or other railway enthusiasts. This could also explain the two face theory. The engines don't actually have physical faces in the RWS universe either, it's only the photographer imagining how an engine would feel under a scenario. This fits with Awdry's inspiration for the series perfectly.
This is actually a really unique take on the faces theory, and it makes sense too. The idea only railway enthusiast can see the faces due to the interest they posses in engines and the overall consensus among many fans that locomotives do feel like "living" things makes this theory really unique yet believable. Adding onto this, maybe during the "day out with Thomas" events even non enthusiasts can see the faces of engines since the collective amount of railway enthusiasts present is an "infectious" kind of joy that allows them to see the faces, even if just for the event duration.
My take on the 2 Henry’s Theory: They reused the smokebox when they were rebuilding Henry at Crewe. Basically, they slapped the smokebox onto a Black 5 and called it a day.
A personal head-canon of mine is a two-parter. ONE: Ffarquhar Quarry only employs Diesel engines. They may borrow steam engines; such as Bill and Ben, who had experience working in a quarry; but all the company-owned locomotives are Diesels. TWO: 'Arry and Bert were fired from the Sodor Ironworks after their incident with Stepney was brought to light. There may have been a cover-up. Ffarquhar, though, had no qualms with their dodgy history, and gladly bought them.
On the subject of Mrs. Percival, maybe she was infertile and the only way she and her husband could have kids was to adopt. As for the girl with a different skin tone, maybe she's their foster child.
I would suggest the red-headed twins are their adopted children, hence why they are always seen with them, while the others are foster kids, so might move on.
18:55 the ballast isn't lead, according to SortaScouse on their twitter "the ballast is lead spoil, not lead. So it only has a very small amount in it. The Foxfield railway in the IoM used it and that's not in quarantine"
I think I'd have to agree with Adam's take on the CGI canon debate. Up until The Adventure Begins, the CGI series pretty closely followed the seasons before in terms of continuity, The Adventure Begins was really the first major retcon with the show's timeline in CGI. You could argue the canon splits in King of the Railway, because of stuff like Belle now being part of the rescue team, or Henry's special coal apparently being fixed years ago, but I think those can be shrugged off pretty easily compared to The Adventure Begins. And like he said, after The Adventure Begins, the flashbacks weren't as accurate as before.
Whats weird is S19 feels like it's canon to the orignal timeline with the helping Hiro flashback to HOTR, or the Rocky thing I said - while everything else onwards feels like its own "adventure begins" take. Like Chucklesome Trucks being more CGI-esk than BMM. IT'S WEIRD😅
@@ThomasTheorist Yeah, that's true. I believe The Adventure Begins was a pretty last-minute addition to the 2015 production slate, so maybe the scripts weren't written with the special in mind? Interesting stuff to think about for sure.
I think it doesn't really make sense to split the canons. The vast majority of the things supporting that theory are errors and retcons, but those by definition do not (need to) create a new timeline, they stay in the original timeline. Flashbacks being different doesn't mean anything because they're imagination sequences anyway
The issue is that the series went on for so long that it became nearly impossible to not at least **retcon** a few things. After like a decade of trying to make sense of how many canons there might be and which parts of the show go into which ones, I've finally decided to just pick and choose seasons, specials and sometimes individual episodes to go into what I consider to be the optimal viewing experience for the show
@@christianpark5155 That is the best way to approach this. Why decanonise entire eras because of a few small issues, rather than just those issues and keep everything else?
My personal theory into the whole ‘thomas’s brothers’ thing is that thomas is just a complete asshat who keeps getting himself killed, and those are the corpses of other clones.
Definitely one of my favorite videos from you so far. While these are theories, not head cannons, it is fun to take these theories and make them into your own head cannons. My favorite ones have to definitely be on the narrow gage engines, because there are so many of them that any of these theories could be possible. I also liked the Magic Railroad ones as well. Keep up the good work Tug you and Adam did a great job with this video!
I love the colabs comming back, it adds new angles to things, I do want to say 1 thing, we need to hear Zeo in another video sometime, love your work tug and Thomas theorist
@@ThomasTheorist yoooooo! I didn’t think you world respond dude! I love both yall content, I talked to you briefly on the Thomas Tuesday stream, and I need the unanswered Thomas question 3. Love what you guys do man, thank you!
@@andya.4253 it’s a theory that states if an object is taken apart and reassembled with different parts; is it still the same object or something completely different?
You COULD say to some extent, Henry 2, taking the Dalby illustrations into account, had a boiler that looks like one for a original build Royal Scot or Patriot
I feel like if they did eventually introduce Duke into the CGI series, they would have just explained away his hiatus like Sir Handel. Let me ask if you'd prefer that over him not appearing at all, and us being able to speculate about where he is.
I think that would make sense for him too. Perhaps Duke was undergoing restoration since season 4. I prefer that theory over him still being in the shed.
that face issue was addressed in the movie "Thomas and the magic railroad" around about 2000 , the trains need a special gold dust to "live" on the main land as well as being enchanted. this might also feed to the 2 Henry situation if an object is the brain of the train which is transferred to the new body
The lead poisoning theory gets even better when you remember that time in the early 2000s when a lot of wooden railway toys were found to have been contaminated with lead in their paint!
For the longest time I actually theorised that the ghost engine from "Duncan Gets Spooked" was actually meant to be Lady, and that the whole episode was meant to be a lead-in to Magic Railroad. For me, the fact that the "fireflies" look much more like gold dust, along with the shape they make looking more like Lady than Proteus, were what made my head canon possible. Maybe Lady's accident was falling off a bridge?
I don’t know, if Lady really was the ghost engine, why would they leave out the part where a hydraulic diesel with a claw chases her, and how would she have been recovered? Your idea of it leading into Magic Railroad may still be possible as this season was made in preparation for that movie.
Hey Nic! If you’re gonna do a part 2 here’s a huge theory that I believe is worth a talk about: Is Thomas and Tugs in the same universe? Personally, ABSO-FUKING-LUTELY!
Speaking of BoCo theories: Another one is the diesel Rusty is talking to in S4 is D5705 (The only remaining BR Class in real life). Making BoCo canonically in the TV show retaining an evil brother even if it is not D5701 from RWS.
I personally never liked the BoCo having an evil brother theory given the Class 28s history of being unreliable and prone to braking down. I personally can’t see one getting pleasure out of hunting down steam engines to get them scrapped, it just doesn’t feel right to me.
For Sir Handel's character to work out, he would still be mature and show more of his goodness but still retains some of his Series 4 traits like arrogance and short-tempered though more toned down and manageable to ensure he's still the same old character we all know and love.
@@robertrowley4929 Thank you. Gotta keep some stuff that sums up who Sir Handel is in Series 4 and the RWS while giving him growth and good moments at the same time.
I have a headcanon idea that could make the Smudger/Bertram theory more grounded and plausible, and that is to include Stanley from the RWS into the story. After Stanley is turned into a pumping engine, Smudger arrives on the Mid Sodor Railway and is mentored by Stanley on how to stand up to Duke, which ultimately gets him into the same accidents. Then Smudger is turned into a generator and Stanley is relocated to Cas-ny-Hawin where he is destroyed in the mine collapse. Smudger hears about this and is scared that he will be forgotten and destroyed too. That is until he is discovered and rebuilt into Bertram and uses his second chance to the fullest by being really useful out of fear of becoming like Stanley.
I had laugh at Thomas Theorist's incredulity at the suggestion Mr Percival's kids having to walk to school 54:20... YES, we all walked to school back then (and/or caught public transport or rode a bike... by ourselves), rain, hail or snow. The kids being run to school in the SUV is a distinctly modern phenomenon. Apart from that, this video is really good analysis and a great exercise in critical thinking, it should be on the syllabus. Well done!
Just wanted to give some of my thoughts on these theories and some of my own related headcanons. _(Buckle up this is gonna be a loooooong one)_ *Two Henrys* - Henry I and Henry II are simply the names of Henry's shapes, nothing more. The NWR needed some sort of documentation of the different builds and labeled them as such to tell them apart easily. So when Awdry came to Sodor for more history on the engines that's the information he wrote down in the Island of Sodor book. -As for headcanons regarding the builds, the plans that were stolen to build Henry were actually drawn as Gresley as reference for his friend Henry Greenly to make as a 15in locomotive based on his then current design, and was built on a small independent workshop on the MR. Thus had a number of problems: his firebox lacked the combustion chamber of the A1 with his rear set of driving wheels and wheel arches limiting its size, he had four cylinders {which made him underpowered}, a used marine boiler was used instead of a new locomotive boiler, and the boiler plates were loose upon arrival due to rushed production. For his rebuild, while Henry is officially listed as a Black Five, he is technically a hybrid of the Black Fives and the recently built Jubilees. His shape has elements of both, such as the larger drivers and third cylinder of the Jubilee and a high footplate and funnel of the Black Five. This was designed to give the best performance for mixed traffic as Black Fives were primarily freight engines. Noting the incorrect boiler proportions of the Jubilees and the recent tests of the Type 2 boiler with British Legion, Stanier had Henry fitted with the first ever 2A boiler, which wasn’t as tapered as the Black 5 boiler and had only recently been designed, along with a larger smokebox to not only fit the new boiler but also fit Henry’s old smokebox door (and thus keep Henry himself since the smokebox door is where his 'brain' is). Henry does still has a few pieces from his original build, including his old whistle. Along with some other modifications like modified blast pipes, and following positive feedback of the boiler from STH, the same boiler would tried later on the Rebuilt Jubilees. *Sodor-only Faces/Two Faces* - It's my personal theory that regardless of canon, there are always faceless engines out there. But I'm not saying engines only have faces on Sodor. The illustrations aren't always accurate, but there's one thing that proves that faceless engines exist: other vehicles. We know in every variation of this series that engines aren't the only faced vehicles: cars, buses, planes, helicopters, boats, etc. have all been shown to have some with faces, but many don't have them. So what I ask is this: what makes engines any different? Therefore, what I'm saying is simply that some engines have faces and some don't, there's just no real rhyme or reason behind it. Who knows, Sodor may have had some faceless engines at some point (I personally have it so they had a faceless LMS Garratt for a time as the banker for Gordon's Hill). - My personal headcanon is that no engine has two faces. They just have a face on one cab front and that's it. It doesn't really make sense for them to 'phase in and out', and again, the illustrations aren't always accurate whose to say those 'two faces' weren't just mistakes? Plus Thomas looked back so Daisy could probably see the milk van behind her from the front too. The only exception is the CFR engines, cause they don't actually have two faces, they lack smokebox faces altogether. The faces on the cab backs are gray and rectangular, akin to engines lie BoCo. And to be honest, that makes sense, front faces don't really serve a purpose for them since their coaches act as their eyes on the way up, while their cab faces act as the eyes on the way down. Awdry simply had the the smokebox faces added to the books to make the engines seem more approachable to children. *Wilbert and Sixteen are the same engine* - It's not mine but a good theory for why Wilbert knows Sixteen's story is because the latter worked at the East Moors Steelworks, which was only an hour’s time away from the Forest of Dean. My headcanon based on that theory is that he's since been preserved and Wilbert has met him before. Inspired by his own name, Wilbert gave Sixteen his own: "Christopher." *Everyone on Sodor has Lead Poisoning* - As funny as it is it's not true in universe, as the Arlesdale Ballast, Granite and Gravel Company cooperates with the Arlesdale Railway to bring ballast and granite to Arlesburgh, where it is taken by rail to a processing plant south of Killdane. So yeah, that ballast has definitely been treated and is safe, at least by modern times. *Daisy Was Never Meant to Exist (in Season 2)* - Not really anything to do with the theory but her not being included at first probably had something to do with those pink buffers David wanted her to have. _YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT SOMEDAY TUG!_
*Bertram and Smudger are the Same Engine/Proteus is the Ghost Engine* Just wanted to include some of my own headcanons for these characters here. - Bertram is the Mine Engine that worked at the mine Cas-ny-Hawin. Unfortunately, he was in the mines when they started to flood in 1946, which ultimately caused him to be crushed and drown. Stanley, aka No. 2, whose failure caused the flooding, had to listen to Bertram scream out for help unable to do anything, and was severely traumatized, especially when the screams stopped. He remained like that when he was rediscovered around the same time Duke was, looking straight ahead with a dazed look in his eyes. While he know lives at the Ulfstead Railway Museum and has received help, he is very much a changed engine. - Smudger is a nickname for Jennings, and only lets close friends call her that. She looks like a cross between a Fletcher Jennings Class Bb (Dolgoch’s class) and Townsend Hook/William Finley and originally worked for the Arlesdale Tramway that preceded the Mid Sodor. She's still alive and kicking on the SR, and had some of the tenacity and stubbornness of the _T&F_ version. - Proteus is a rebuilt Hunslet “Early Port” Alice Class locomotive appearing identical to Covertcoat of the Launceston Steam Railway after its rebuild. Skarloey told his story that he heard from his twin Talyllyn when he was being repaired, which was about an engine that worked on a little tramway in Wales. Once when pulling a passenger train through a thick fog at dusk, he had to stop when the fog became too thick, with his driver wishing the fog would disappear. Soon afterward, a sudden gust of wind caused his carriages to make an unusual creak, followed by his lamp flickering, which seemingly cut straight through the fog. When he returned to the station, his crew and passengers said his lamp is magic. But soon afterwards, his tramway was closed down and he was moved to the Dinorwic Quarry, losing his lamp in the process. No one knows where it ended up, though word says that whoever found it would have their wishes come true. - The Ghost Engine is Alfred fro the Mid Sodor. Rail repairs on the viaduct section of the Mountain Road were conducted in the summer of 1900, and one day a small section of dilapidated track was removed entirely. The Mountain Road was supposed to be closed for the night, but a mix-up between the maintenance crew and the station staff at Ulfstead Road caused this warning to never be telephoned to Arlesdale. That night Albert would be sent up the Mountain Road on a solo night goods run. Noticing the red flags, he was able to warn his crew (who then shouted to warn the guard) while they set the brakes and climbed out. However, due to the flag being too close to the site, Albert didn’t lose enough speed by the time he reached the removed section and derailed, falling off the right side of the viaduct into the valley below, followed by the rest of his train. While the crew and the guard survived, Albert’s remains were never recovered, and he was pronounced deceased after a search party brought up nothing. Maintenance regulations would become much more strict after the incident. A story based on this incident would later be told to Duncan on the Skarloey Railway. *When Does Thomas and the Magic Railroad take place?/Where was Edward?* - Again, more of a headcanon thing, but I have tried to write a basic idea for a more realistic version of the film, called _The Lost Lady of the Magic Railroad._ The movie takes place largely in the area around Killdane. Muffle Mountain is on Sodor being the mountain southwest of Shen Ven on the _Railway Series_ map, and Shining Time is a small hamlet that was serviced by a private railway run by the Stone family that used to run from Killdane to Muffle Mountain. The town served a gold mine at the base of the mountain, which once had so much activity that the rails became covered in golden dust. The film takes place in the summer of 1983, with the viaduct's southernmost side partially collapsing during the final chase, as Diesel 10 grabs onto the other side in a vain attempt to keep himself upright before he falls into the Hawin Ab. Thomas, our main protagonist, has been temporarily relocated to the yard at Killdane to help manage the yard there as the ‘Electric Line’ has been receiving more work than ever. Under orders from the Fat Controller now being put into action by Mr. Conductor (a man who works for the NWR and just so happens to have that name), Edward is to accompany him and make sure he doesn’t get into mischief. Thomas and Edward as the main are representations of David Mitton and Wilbert Awdry in a way. One is someone who wants the freedom to do what they want and wants to show they are more than what they do but learns that they enjoy working with others to bring a shared vision to life just as much if not more. The other mirrors Wilbert’s view towards the TV show: as in how Edward is a stickler for the rules because he believes that not doing so might harm the railway, Wilbert was a stickler towards realism and was upset when the show didn’t follow it because he believed that not doing so wouldn’t make for good stories with his characters. The idea isn't to suggest that Wilbert was wrong for thinking how he did but suggests that Mitton and Allcroft did care about his stories and about portraying the engines as real locomotives, but just had a different perspective on how to accomplish that. *Freddie the Mid-Sodor Engine/Sir Handel's Maturing Arc* - My headcanon for Fearless Frederick, or “Freddie” as close friends liek to call him, is that he works for the Gleih Fell Quarry. The quarry is located east-southeast of Rheneas and connects to a line from Great Waterton, which as a result has led to its SR nickname: the Rheneas Slate Quarry. The quarry’s connection to the SR was opened in 1951, but had been open for decades with its own engines, previously using lorries to transfer goods. Freddie was simply one of the engines whose worked there the longest, and and got to know Sir Handel after the latter was loaned to the quarry for a summer to "whip him into shape." While it hasn't really stuck, Sir Handel has been trying to be more mature, emphasis on the word "trying." *Hiro Wasn't the First Engine on Sodor* - Since my headcanon is largely based on the _Railway Series,_ Hiro was never the first engine on Sodor. He's D51 no. 451, and was preserved in Showa Park in Akishima for much of his preserved life. When Thomas went on a world tour from 1999-2001, he went to Japan as both he and the town wanted him to run again, Sir Topham Hatt bought him and sent him to Sodor, where he was regauged based on the plans of his Korean siblings. *Duke Hasn't Been Found Yet* - Unfortunately Duke was in the concept art for Season 15's Kevin the Steamie, so it's most likely he's just on the SR somewhere we haven't seen yet.
This has definitely been one of the most interesting videos on the channel yet!! Unlike the History Video of the Engines Build dates or timelines that are Headcannons or Facts, this is all Questions and Unknown! This is definitely so interesting and gave me ideas for my own theories!
*Sir Topham hat is a former railway director who had a psychotic breakdown and is now confined to a psych ward where he has daily hallucinations about talking trains (the stories take place within his psychie) and the real railway he managed is totally normal and none of the trains can actually talk*
A better example to counter the 2 Henry’s theory, is the Great Bear the failed GWR Pacific it was rebuilt into a 4-6-0 Castle class which is a lot different to the original design
Thanks for having me on, Tug!
Appropriate for the Thomas Theorist himself to be here!
The video came out 3 minutes ago but your comment was two *days* ago? RUclips has been crazy recently
(The video was probably unlisted for a while, as mentioned by someone else)
Eeeeeerrrrniiieieee
@@therailwaymen2203early patron access.
@@therailwaymen2203the video has probably been on private or unlinked
That "Tug leaves the door open" gag is a classic. Really nice callbacks for the OG channel!
Tug really has a problem with leaving the door open
@@mayoroicjresilly Tug keeps loosing that darn door key!
@@mayoroicjre Hasn't he ever heard of closing the god damn door?
@@KraylebStudios No, it's much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality
“Drives me crazy, Close the f***ing door will ya? You’re letting out all the cold…” -George Carlin
This was such a fun video Tug!
This felt very informative, well structured and your voice recording sounded entertaining.
Was very cool to see Adam on here, I know he was very excited to be apart of it!
Hope you're having a great time in Europe with your wife!
👍👍👍
Wasnt expecting TTTEGuy here haha!
dawg give this one a no from me
@@ThomasTheorist dawg like nah actually
Knew you were gonna be here
@@ThomasTheorist congratulations on collaborating with Tug mate.
49:18-49:22 “I’m banishing you to the Shadow Realm!”
Sir Handel: NOooooo-
“Much Better!”
48:41, I love how it’s the exact same “NOoooo-“ he used before XD
Yami Marik "Oh great new blood" 🎉
Imagine using that as a jingle in a fake Schaffrillas Productions ranking.
"Endth"
We've all been in the shadow realm this whole time
Here's a little theory I thought of regarding the Sad story of Henry: Walling Henry up in the tunnel wasn't done to teach Henry a lesson. It was a scam so that the NWR could make an excuse to fund the creation of a second tunnel for the mainline. According to appended Railway Series lore, there was only one tunnel on the mainline with the two tracks meeting before and after the tunnel portals. When Henry refused to leave the tunnel, the directors of the NWR suggested walling Henry up, therefore quarantining the tunnel. If the tunnel was quarantined, they could either gain funding through insurance or an external benefactor to build a new tunnel. Once the new tunnel was done, Henry could be let out. Henry may have even been let out of the rear entrance of the tunnel at night to assist in construction of the new tunnel, as the back of the tunnel was never modified.
Holy shit, this actually makes sense.
Oh my god... you might just be right. Can you imagine the scandal?!
I like this.
Honestly this is hilarious to think about
Henry: so you use me...FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT
Omg thank you so much for choosing me as pick of the week!!! It’s an honor you enjoyed my video - lovely theories btw, well done to the both of you. :)
No way! I'm a huge fan!!!
I love that you mentioned Thomas1Edward2Henry3, he is legit one of my favourite Thomas RUclipsrs.
He IS my favorite thomas youtuber in regards to fan stories I love how he wrote Gordon Henry Edward Duke Bertram Oliver and Diesel in particular
Here's a fun spanner in the works on the Henry theory. There actually are precedents for engines being replaced, but the replacement officially being the same engine as the one it replaced. To give one example, the Great Western Railway replaced the Vale of Rheidol Railway's Prince of Wales, but claimed it was an overhaul as an accounting cheat.
(My theory is that an engine can pass its identity on, so Henry can be two engines but also have identical memories. This also explains how Iron Duke can remember the Broad Gauge even though he is a modern replica)
That would be interesting to look into on your channel if you ever get around to doing another Thomas-related video.
There's actually no evidence that Prince of Wales is a new engine.
I'm based in Aberystwyth if you want me to ask any questions to vale of Rheidol Railway
The GWR seemed to love both approaches to "rebuilds." On one hand you have 16 Castles with almost nothing in common with their Churchward-designed "basis". On the other hand, you have the Dukedogs being literal hybrids but being classed, and named, as "new" engines
my man JagoHazzard gives out a history lesson on a Thomas the Tank engine video,
Also Jago, can we get a video on broad gauge in London?
Finally,
Answerable Thomas Questions
You're an OG
XD
T H R E E
F O U R
still waiting to know if james' whistle truly is like his penis
As MatPat once said, "It's just a theory"
“A Film Theory!”
"A Engine Theory"
@@LUOLMO Thanks for watching!
A TRAIN THEORY!
A TRAIN THEORY!
Thanks for riding!
I prefer to view Thomas and Duck not getting along as more of an unintentional running gag than anything. That being said, the detail of Thomas not whistling at Duck in Spotless Record is even funnier considering Duck was just involved in the accident that Thomas caused.
I agree. They don’t hate each other, but I do see your point.
He left out the part in Saved You where Thomas accidentally destroyed Duck's water tower and unlike Toby and the Scottish Twins who he helps, he doesn't help Duck (somewhat justified a bit as it's not like he can pull another water tower out of thin air).
They both have a very "main character" complex, which naturally doesnt mix well
@ I can see that
* A couple other things about the Daisy theory:
* There's a Thomas Comes To Breakfast book released around when S2 aired that has BoCo be the engine who replaces Thomas, not Daisy.
* Elsbridge's set is specifically rebuilt in Season 2, and that rebuilt set seemingly is only in Daisy and Percy's Predicament.
* Percy's Predicament uses a rushed set too - the "Pin Down Brakes" hill is the road above the station, with tracks laid on top of it.
* Absolutely no Daisy merch whatsoever was made in accordance with Season 2, in comparison to the tons everyone else got.
* Daisy's nameboard is filmed on the New Harbour set, evidently one of the last sets filmed, in comparison to everyone else's on the Tidmouth set, one of the first filmed.
bro, you aint a undertale character
quit doing the * shit and seek help
Ngl Daisy sodor finest will be so interesting because she was such an afterthought in the model era not to mention the controversy with her being too sexist etc
Daisy being a late decision in Series 2 suddenly makes so much sense!
I can also see how 'Breakfast' could be tweaked to have BoCo come do Thomas' work instead. But on the other hand, I don't think Britt, David and company wanted to stray too far from the books. Yet.
The rebuild only applies to the scenes where the station isn't in shot. When we see the sheds behind the station in "Daisy", they're in the standard season 2 configuration, not the rebuilt version.
My favourite Season 10 episode was, without a doubt, 'Sir Handel and the Lobotomy".
But thats not even an episode of s10
@@lucasmonteirodemedeiros4909 That's because it's the secret hidden episode.
@@ToyFreddyGaming1987the kind that appears once at 3 AM and has hyper realistic blood
@@darthgamer9861 ooh like a lost episode creepypasta.
I think “Ben finds some money, goes to federal prison, get rehabilitated, then works really hard, until he breaks down” from season 11 is better
You know it’s a good tug video when they bring back the door joke from almost 10 years ago. Now we just need the unawnsered Thomas questions 3 with Thomas theorist! XD
Love the dieselD199 mention! Honestly i feel like he’s become an underrated legend these days since he barely uploads and his formats completely changed over the years but I loved his Tomy series
He also mentioned Thomas1EdwardHenry3.
Man I want to get in on the action!
@@ryanfuller912 oh yeah him too i totally forgot when i commented
A small thing with the daisy theory, it’s further evidenced by her name board being the only one not at Tidmouth
BoCo, Duck, Donald, Douglas, Diesel, Bill, Ben, Trevor and Harold all have their nameboards at Tidmouth, yet Daisy is at the New Harbour
If I was to guess why that is, it may be because Daisy and BoCo shared the same face masks and chassis.
I just thought of this a few weeks ago. New Harbor and Elsbridge are also the only sets on which Daisy appears on more than once, yet she doesn't appear at Tidmouth PERIOD in Season 2
Now knowing about the two-cab diesels having two faces in the RWS makes James’s line about “How do they know if they’re coming or going?” In James and the Diesel Engines make so much more sense now.
18:56
Ms. Pauling: "The water here has been poisoned with lead for years, that's why we give you guys bottled water."
Soldier: "Bottled what?"
This is what I love the most about the fandom. Just having plain old fun with our little ideas based on either real life events, events in the media, or just our own head canons. Nothing is fact or necessarily wrong, just completely up to interpretation. Well done here Tug! Nice touch letting Thomas Theorist take part too!
36:43 The Search for Smudger takes this theory and really runs with it, it's an amazing story and I can't wait for the upcoming remake.
SAME!
As fun as the theory is. I'm skeptical, because of how their backgrounds are described.
I thought that story was where the theory originated.
Upcoming remake?
@@MasterTramsRUclips Yea, he's doing it
People say Henry’s rebuild is unrealistic but the Reading Railroad rebuilt several of their 2-8-0 Consolidations into 4-8-4 northerns
Also great western 111 a pacific rebuilt into a 4-6-0 castle in the early 20s
Yep. The T-1s. Of which four remain. 2100, being restored to operation. 2101, displayed as AFT No. 1 at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, 2102 owned and currently operating excursions on the Reading & Northern, and 2124 on display at Steamtown in Scranton.
Not to mention Norfolk Southern's AC44C6Ms
In my own headcanon, the flying kipper crash happened earlier in 1933 and in order to get Henry repaired (due to a lack of money from the Great Depression) Topham allowed Stanier to experiment on Henry, rebuilding him into what would become the prototype for the black 5
Well Topham and Stanier did an apprenticeship together so I imagine there on friendly terms and funds aren't much of an issue, if anything I think the reason why Stanier turned Henry into a black 5 was because it would be much cheaper to turn Henry into a working prototype rather than build a brand new one altogether
13:54 Toby being the chaotic neutral throws a wrench into the theories
What’s wrong with that? Seems normal for Toby to do that XD
@@jmredguppy2799 Nothing wrong with it. I was just saying.
@@IsleofPigsStudiosToby: If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball
@@TheBandit025Nova rachet is in thomas and friends?
So great to see Tug keeping the old running gag from his old channel that guests join his videos because he left his door wide open
Here's some point I have to go off of the theories discussed here:
1. ThomasWoodenRailway speculated that the rear faces of the Culdee Fell engines were analogous to the rear cameras used by modern cars, and that they would become "dormant" when the front face is used and vise versa.
2. Thomas and Duck's dynamic reminds me of the ones in _The Big Bang Theory,_ where the characters' clear disdain for each other makes me question more and more why any of them are still friends, let alone how the marriages have survived.
Thomas and Duck's friendship probably works the same way, where there's almost always that underlying tension, and like the friendship between Thomas and Percy, would probably only be possible with engines that have to work together on a regular basis. But as Thomas doesn't work with Duck on a regular basis, the two haven't yet worked out the kinks in their relationship.
3. Going off what was insinuated about Mrs. Percival not being faithful…their children could also have been conceived from a fertility clinic, which would open up a can of worms over Peregrine's medical inadequacies. Either that, or they're in an open relationship. With all of Mr. Percival's traits, either of these would not feel out of place.
Oh btw, Mr Percival’s wife and kids never appear in the CGI series. Make of that as you will.
or the Percival's children could have gotten recessive genes
@
I can't believe this possibility never occurred to me, especially given that I have used this same reasoning to disprove the theory that Riley was adopted prior to the events of _Inside Out._
It hasn’t even been a week!
We’re getting spoiled here with 2 Thomas videos 1 week after the after. Keep up the great work mate!
ITS JUST A THEORY, A TRAIN THEORY 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
PIEGUYRULZ reference?
THANKS FOR THE RIDE!
The Duke one really hurt. I wish we had seen him more than we did. He was my favorite character from season 4, and it genuinely irks me that he never got the opportunity to shine in the later seasons
Especially in CGI to interact with Luke, Sir Robert, Stephen, Glynn and Millie.
I never liked the "no-faces while off sodor", it's a bit silly, and there is so much that contradict it; so I straight up ignore it, and just accept that all locomotives regardless of location have faces and are alive
My personal headcanon for this is that faces exist on all engines worldwide, however only on Sodor can humans see and interact with them. I will admit there are many contradictions to it but in my mind it makes more sense than Awdry's rule or any of the other theory I've came across regarding it
@@christianpark5155@christianpark5155 Maybe in your headcanon, it makes sense, but generally speaking, many things, especially in the TV show, contradict this. I'm talking about specials like BWBA or Thomas and the Royal Engine.
15:14 sounds like a question for unanswerable Thomas questions 3. Also for Duck and Thomas hating each other is that in Journey Beyond Sodor, when Thomas sings about missing his friends, when it shows most of the engines it shows engines like Diesel, while Duck doesn't appear
Missing Diesel more than Duck is crazy ✋🏻💀
The Lead Poisoning theory is very interesting. Sounds like the plot of a Black Mirror episode. You could go a lot of ways after the island becomes delirious seeing faces on trains from all the lead.
You calling the model series timeline 'old'...
God, time flies.
Wow! Never thought I’d hear The Unlucky Tug & the Thomas Theorist interact. And in the first time they did, it caught me by surprise! Also I firmly believe that TUGS actually takes place on the Island of Sodor.
Despite being heavily implied that it takes place in America.
I kind of view Lady the same way most people view Proteus as strange as that might sound. I feel like she was one of the really, really early standard gauge engines on Sodor with so little information about her in the railway records that stories were soon made about how she was a "magical" engine for "joining the railways together" when in reality she was most likely a freelance designed locomotive who helped with the N.W.R. construction. Heck maybe she even taught Edward the same way that Edward taught Thomas in The Adventure Begins and the blue #2 engine is the only one who knows the truth about Lady but decides to not say anything because of the amount of inspiration her legendary tales gives to the others on the Island of Sodor?
Actually a neat theory, considering people some see Lady as Brit's "self insert" I kind of think it ties in together in a bittersweet way since Brit was the one who brought the show to life
56:05,
“Ooh..
*AAAAAA-“*
(Gasps)
still hilarious XD
Please have more guest Trampy appearances on your channel. I love seeing him go into a downward spiral when he’s on your channel. His reactions are hilarious.
51:48 I was totally expecting the Peter Sam ending again, so seeing that instead made me jump! 😂
regarding the Two Henrys theory, I just like to think that they re-used the Gresley style boiler and stuck it to a new firebox and a Black 5 frame. That's why he seems slightly bigger than a regular Black 5 in the illustrations. Maybe that's just a me thing, but I've always thought Stanier designs had thinner boilers compared to other British steamers, so that's my excuse.
Honestly that's a good possibility since back in the days of steam, it was much cheaper to rebuild a steam locomotive rather than build a brand new one altogether
I like to think Bill and Ben work at the Ffarquar Quarry during the Winter season when the claypits are too cold.
As for BoCo, he could have just been relocated to one of the unseen lines like Kirk Ronan.
My favourite theory (which is arguably closer to just subtext than a theory) is that all the faces in the Railway Series are metaphorical. It’s a nice and elegant solution to many of the problems posed in this video (two faces, two Henrys, faces outside of Sodor, etc.). This is supported by Awdry’s insistence on grounding the events of his series in reality, in addition to crews often sharing traits with their engine (e.g. the crews of the Caledonian twins being related) and so can stand in for the engine’s personality in some stories.
Oh god there's continuity now, this cannonically takes place after the Season 12 retrospective
If Trampy ever appears again, his death probably won’t be canon, unless he somehow got revived.
51:48 The Famous WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Puffed Skarloey as he raced down the hi-
(munitions explode)
Weeeeee puffed skarloey - the sequel
Rheneas and Duncan will be traumatized for life (i.e till Series 12)
That was pretty hilarious! Rest in Pieces Hit Era Skarloey.
How that episode should’ve ended
53:25 One afternoon, as Toby was puffing cheerfully along the line, he heard a whispered conversation between his driver and a workman. 'It seems Mrs. Percival is spending quite a lot of time with someone who isn't Mr. Percival,' the driver remarked, glancing at Toby with a knowing smile. Toby's wheels clattered in surprise. 'Oh dear,' he thought, 'what a muddle that is!'
I love how the Ernieeeeeeree gag for Thomas Theorist has carried over to here
Thanks to Adam for bringing more awareness of this obscure show into the fandom.
The fact that Christopher decided to make Wilbert an actual character based on his dad is actually really sweet. Bless both of them.
There are several IRL cases where locomotives were officially “rebuilt” but actually wholly replaced - it happened to one of the Vale of Rheidol locomotives at Swindon, for example - in such cases, these engines were still considered their former selves in most respects. IRL it was mostly done for tax and legal reasons but I could absolutely see Stanier using the same process for Henry and in doing so basically transferring his “soul” to a new body.
I mean, locomotives in the Thomas universe are able to retain their identities through all manner of rebuilds and parts replaced - it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a way of completely replacing an engine while keeping its personality and memories as I’ve suggested.
Kind of makes me think of the whole "Ship of Theseus" thing, i.e. how much of the original is left when you've replaced all the parts.
In the instance of living engines, I like to think that it's a similar premise since over time the engines would need new boilers, cylinders, wheelsets and all manner of parts replaced.
Keeping in mind the stories take place over the course of at least some 70 years, I really doubt the engines wouldn't have received boiler replacements/overhauls by that point (since they're typically mandated every 10 or 15 years iirc) and that doesn't seem to have any effect of their memories or such.
My theory on the faces is like this, it depends on whether the photographers are actually interested in the engines or rolling stock, like maybe those pictures of faceless engines were not taken by railway enthusiasts, it does make sense as the non-sentient pictures are mainly from the Talyllyn and Bluebell, both famous early heritage railways. These heritage railways would have gotten a lot of press coverage back in the day, the photographers were just doing a job, aka not really interested in the locomotives, while the sentient pictures were by railway enthusiasts. This makes sense as Awdry and Teddy Boston are canon in the RWS universe, so maybe the pictures with faces in the books were taken by them or other railway enthusiasts. This could also explain the two face theory. The engines don't actually have physical faces in the RWS universe either, it's only the photographer imagining how an engine would feel under a scenario. This fits with Awdry's inspiration for the series perfectly.
This is actually a really unique take on the faces theory, and it makes sense too.
The idea only railway enthusiast can see the faces due to the interest they posses in engines and the overall consensus among many fans that locomotives do feel like "living" things makes this theory really unique yet believable.
Adding onto this, maybe during the "day out with Thomas" events even non enthusiasts can see the faces of engines since the collective amount of railway enthusiasts present is an "infectious" kind of joy that allows them to see the faces, even if just for the event duration.
WEEEEEEEE!!! Puffed Skarloey as he raced down the hill-(Explodes).
51:47
My take on the 2 Henry’s Theory:
They reused the smokebox when they were rebuilding Henry at Crewe. Basically, they slapped the smokebox onto a Black 5 and called it a day.
My only real question is why does the IOS book say that there have been 2 Henry’s since 1922 and not 1935?
@@joshuaW5621STT preordered 😭
That’s what I always thought
@@joshuaW5621 awdry being awdry i guess
A personal head-canon of mine is a two-parter.
ONE: Ffarquhar Quarry only employs Diesel engines. They may borrow steam engines; such as Bill and Ben, who had experience working in a quarry; but all the company-owned locomotives are Diesels.
TWO: 'Arry and Bert were fired from the Sodor Ironworks after their incident with Stepney was brought to light. There may have been a cover-up. Ffarquhar, though, had no qualms with their dodgy history, and gladly bought them.
51:51 it's so very well done, I love it. You're really improving your editing skills Tug
Tug: *"Jack looks the most different in CGI compared to the model series."*
Duncan: *"I'll pretend i didn't hear that."*
In all honesty the Bertram/Smudger theory adds up so well especially considering T1E2H3
An Unlucky Tug and Thomas Theorist collab video? SIGN ME UP!
It’s about time my two favourite Thomas-tubers teamed up for a video.
On the subject of Mrs. Percival, maybe she was infertile and the only way she and her husband could have kids was to adopt. As for the girl with a different skin tone, maybe she's their foster child.
It would track pretty well, and is fairly straightforward.
I would suggest the red-headed twins are their adopted children, hence why they are always seen with them, while the others are foster kids, so might move on.
18:55 the ballast isn't lead, according to SortaScouse on their twitter "the ballast is lead spoil, not lead. So it only has a very small amount in it. The Foxfield railway in the IoM used it and that's not in quarantine"
ngl that one theory with Proteus being the ghost engine is actually pretty cool
I think I'd have to agree with Adam's take on the CGI canon debate. Up until The Adventure Begins, the CGI series pretty closely followed the seasons before in terms of continuity, The Adventure Begins was really the first major retcon with the show's timeline in CGI. You could argue the canon splits in King of the Railway, because of stuff like Belle now being part of the rescue team, or Henry's special coal apparently being fixed years ago, but I think those can be shrugged off pretty easily compared to The Adventure Begins. And like he said, after The Adventure Begins, the flashbacks weren't as accurate as before.
Whats weird is S19 feels like it's canon to the orignal timeline with the helping Hiro flashback to HOTR, or the Rocky thing I said - while everything else onwards feels like its own "adventure begins" take. Like Chucklesome Trucks being more CGI-esk than BMM. IT'S WEIRD😅
@@ThomasTheorist Yeah, that's true. I believe The Adventure Begins was a pretty last-minute addition to the 2015 production slate, so maybe the scripts weren't written with the special in mind? Interesting stuff to think about for sure.
I think it doesn't really make sense to split the canons. The vast majority of the things supporting that theory are errors and retcons, but those by definition do not (need to) create a new timeline, they stay in the original timeline. Flashbacks being different doesn't mean anything because they're imagination sequences anyway
The issue is that the series went on for so long that it became nearly impossible to not at least **retcon** a few things. After like a decade of trying to make sense of how many canons there might be and which parts of the show go into which ones, I've finally decided to just pick and choose seasons, specials and sometimes individual episodes to go into what I consider to be the optimal viewing experience for the show
@@christianpark5155 That is the best way to approach this. Why decanonise entire eras because of a few small issues, rather than just those issues and keep everything else?
My personal theory into the whole ‘thomas’s brothers’ thing is that thomas is just a complete asshat who keeps getting himself killed, and those are the corpses of other clones.
Oh, Thomas keeps respawning huh, just like Kenny McCormack and D9341.
Given that Thomas had at least 74 crashes under his belt, I’m sure one of them had to be fatal.
@@tad7441 74 crashes damn was his driver named Romain Grosjean or Pastor Maldonado
Grosjean was the driver; Maldonado the fireman.
Definitely one of my favorite videos from you so far. While these are theories, not head cannons, it is fun to take these theories and make them into your own head cannons. My favorite ones have to definitely be on the narrow gage engines, because there are so many of them that any of these theories could be possible. I also liked the Magic Railroad ones as well. Keep up the good work Tug you and Adam did a great job with this video!
I love the colabs comming back, it adds new angles to things, I do want to say 1 thing, we need to hear Zeo in another video sometime, love your work tug and Thomas theorist
Thank you! And yes - now that I and Trampy have been on, would love the return of Zeo for Unaswerable Thomas Questions remastered!
@@ThomasTheorist yoooooo! I didn’t think you world respond dude! I love both yall content, I talked to you briefly on the Thomas Tuesday stream, and I need the unanswered Thomas question 3. Love what you guys do man, thank you!
I remember someone wondering if Mr. Percival's kids were adopted in one of the Unanswerable Thomas Questions videos.
44:44 idk why but this looks more realistic and satisfying than the original. Nice edit Tug.
6:13 The Whiff of Theseus
I said the same thing when I heard the concept.
I dont get it
@@andya.4253 it’s a theory that states if an object is taken apart and reassembled with different parts; is it still the same object or something completely different?
I can guarantee Topham is a chicken big mac type of guy.
More like chicken Big Mac DELUXE
@@Enterprisingengine93😂
Huge respect for the chickens who live to become his burgers.
I kinda forgot how places like Mcdonalds or Tesco would actually be on Sodor that'd be such a funny visual
@_MyNameIsAJ_ yeah I can imagine knapford station having a built in mcdonalds
33:22 derek in his only appearance (not counting calling all engines) he too kept his BR number and logo so this theory could also apply to him.
You COULD say to some extent, Henry 2, taking the Dalby illustrations into account, had a boiler that looks like one for a original build Royal Scot or Patriot
48:41 ah yes the im banishing you ti the shadow relam mene sound effect, good times I remember when this meme was all over the place
I feel like if they did eventually introduce Duke into the CGI series, they would have just explained away his hiatus like Sir Handel. Let me ask if you'd prefer that over him not appearing at all, and us being able to speculate about where he is.
I think that would make sense for him too. Perhaps Duke was undergoing restoration since season 4. I prefer that theory over him still being in the shed.
Man do I love listening to these videos quietly while I work. I sure hope there aren't any sudden loud noises to scare the crap out of me.
51:48
The 2 Henry’s, Boco Daisy and the ghost engine theories always got me thinking thanks for settling those questions
that face issue was addressed in the movie "Thomas and the magic railroad" around about 2000 , the trains need a special gold dust to "live" on the main land as well as being enchanted. this might also feed to the 2 Henry situation if an object is the brain of the train which is transferred to the new body
The lead poisoning theory gets even better when you remember that time in the early 2000s when a lot of wooden railway toys were found to have been contaminated with lead in their paint!
For the longest time I actually theorised that the ghost engine from "Duncan Gets Spooked" was actually meant to be Lady, and that the whole episode was meant to be a lead-in to Magic Railroad. For me, the fact that the "fireflies" look much more like gold dust, along with the shape they make looking more like Lady than Proteus, were what made my head canon possible. Maybe Lady's accident was falling off a bridge?
I don’t know, if Lady really was the ghost engine, why would they leave out the part where a hydraulic diesel with a claw chases her, and how would she have been recovered? Your idea of it leading into Magic Railroad may still be possible as this season was made in preparation for that movie.
@ Well I thought so since the episode would've been made back when PT Boomer was still the villain, so Diesel 10 wouldn’t have appeared.
Best Thomas Collab ever! Unlucky tug and Thomas theorist together is so amazing!
"Hey Lois - remeber dat time thomas theorist and the unlucky tug ripped off our Simpson crossover?"
After all these years, you still haven't learned to shut the door. Old habits die hard I suppose.
"But what about in 'The Fat Controllers Engines' when we..."
Hey Nic! If you’re gonna do a part 2 here’s a huge theory that I believe is worth a talk about:
Is Thomas and Tugs in the same universe?
Personally, ABSO-FUKING-LUTELY!
What If... Tugs finished his video about the Star Wars Prequels
Speaking of BoCo theories: Another one is the diesel Rusty is talking to in S4 is D5705 (The only remaining BR Class in real life).
Making BoCo canonically in the TV show retaining an evil brother even if it is not D5701 from RWS.
I personally never liked the BoCo having an evil brother theory given the Class 28s history of being unreliable and prone to braking down. I personally can’t see one getting pleasure out of hunting down steam engines to get them scrapped, it just doesn’t feel right to me.
For Sir Handel's character to work out, he would still be mature and show more of his goodness but still retains some of his Series 4 traits like arrogance and short-tempered though more toned down and manageable to ensure he's still the same old character we all know and love.
Here here! My thoughts and sentiments exactly. A perfect blend of both personalities.
@@robertrowley4929 Thank you. Gotta keep some stuff that sums up who Sir Handel is in Series 4 and the RWS while giving him growth and good moments at the same time.
2:14 Sodor's Finest on Underground Ernie when?
Hopefully April 1st next year!
He’ll probably make one on Chuggington first since that show is more well known.
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I have a headcanon idea that could make the Smudger/Bertram theory more grounded and plausible, and that is to include Stanley from the RWS into the story.
After Stanley is turned into a pumping engine, Smudger arrives on the Mid Sodor Railway and is mentored by Stanley on how to stand up to Duke, which ultimately gets him into the same accidents. Then Smudger is turned into a generator and Stanley is relocated to Cas-ny-Hawin where he is destroyed in the mine collapse. Smudger hears about this and is scared that he will be forgotten and destroyed too. That is until he is discovered and rebuilt into Bertram and uses his second chance to the fullest by being really useful out of fear of becoming like Stanley.
I had laugh at Thomas Theorist's incredulity at the suggestion Mr Percival's kids having to walk to school 54:20... YES, we all walked to school back then (and/or caught public transport or rode a bike... by ourselves), rain, hail or snow. The kids being run to school in the SUV is a distinctly modern phenomenon. Apart from that, this video is really good analysis and a great exercise in critical thinking, it should be on the syllabus. Well done!
Just wanted to give some of my thoughts on these theories and some of my own related headcanons. _(Buckle up this is gonna be a loooooong one)_
*Two Henrys*
- Henry I and Henry II are simply the names of Henry's shapes, nothing more. The NWR needed some sort of documentation of the different builds and labeled them as such to tell them apart easily. So when Awdry came to Sodor for more history on the engines that's the information he wrote down in the Island of Sodor book.
-As for headcanons regarding the builds, the plans that were stolen to build Henry were actually drawn as Gresley as reference for his friend Henry Greenly to make as a 15in locomotive based on his then current design, and was built on a small independent workshop on the MR. Thus had a number of problems: his firebox lacked the combustion chamber of the A1 with his rear set of driving wheels and wheel arches limiting its size, he had four cylinders {which made him underpowered}, a used marine boiler was used instead of a new locomotive boiler, and the boiler plates were loose upon arrival due to rushed production.
For his rebuild, while Henry is officially listed as a Black Five, he is technically a hybrid of the Black Fives and the recently built Jubilees. His shape has elements of both, such as the larger drivers and third cylinder of the Jubilee and a high footplate and funnel of the Black Five. This was designed to give the best performance for mixed traffic as Black Fives were primarily freight engines. Noting the incorrect boiler proportions of the Jubilees and the recent tests of the Type 2 boiler with British Legion, Stanier had Henry fitted with the first ever 2A boiler, which wasn’t as tapered as the Black 5 boiler and had only recently been designed, along with a larger smokebox to not only fit the new boiler but also fit Henry’s old smokebox door (and thus keep Henry himself since the smokebox door is where his 'brain' is). Henry does still has a few pieces from his original build, including his old whistle. Along with some other modifications like modified blast pipes, and following positive feedback of the boiler from STH, the same boiler would tried later on the Rebuilt Jubilees.
*Sodor-only Faces/Two Faces*
- It's my personal theory that regardless of canon, there are always faceless engines out there. But I'm not saying engines only have faces on Sodor. The illustrations aren't always accurate, but there's one thing that proves that faceless engines exist: other vehicles. We know in every variation of this series that engines aren't the only faced vehicles: cars, buses, planes, helicopters, boats, etc. have all been shown to have some with faces, but many don't have them. So what I ask is this: what makes engines any different? Therefore, what I'm saying is simply that some engines have faces and some don't, there's just no real rhyme or reason behind it. Who knows, Sodor may have had some faceless engines at some point (I personally have it so they had a faceless LMS Garratt for a time as the banker for Gordon's Hill).
- My personal headcanon is that no engine has two faces. They just have a face on one cab front and that's it. It doesn't really make sense for them to 'phase in and out', and again, the illustrations aren't always accurate whose to say those 'two faces' weren't just mistakes? Plus Thomas looked back so Daisy could probably see the milk van behind her from the front too.
The only exception is the CFR engines, cause they don't actually have two faces, they lack smokebox faces altogether. The faces on the cab backs are gray and rectangular, akin to engines lie BoCo. And to be honest, that makes sense, front faces don't really serve a purpose for them since their coaches act as their eyes on the way up, while their cab faces act as the eyes on the way down. Awdry simply had the the smokebox faces added to the books to make the engines seem more approachable to children.
*Wilbert and Sixteen are the same engine*
- It's not mine but a good theory for why Wilbert knows Sixteen's story is because the latter worked at the East Moors Steelworks, which was only an hour’s time away from the Forest of Dean. My headcanon based on that theory is that he's since been preserved and Wilbert has met him before. Inspired by his own name, Wilbert gave Sixteen his own: "Christopher."
*Everyone on Sodor has Lead Poisoning*
- As funny as it is it's not true in universe, as the Arlesdale Ballast, Granite and Gravel Company cooperates with the Arlesdale Railway to bring ballast and granite to Arlesburgh, where it is taken by rail to a processing plant south of Killdane. So yeah, that ballast has definitely been treated and is safe, at least by modern times.
*Daisy Was Never Meant to Exist (in Season 2)*
- Not really anything to do with the theory but her not being included at first probably had something to do with those pink buffers David wanted her to have. _YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT SOMEDAY TUG!_
*Bertram and Smudger are the Same Engine/Proteus is the Ghost Engine*
Just wanted to include some of my own headcanons for these characters here.
- Bertram is the Mine Engine that worked at the mine Cas-ny-Hawin. Unfortunately, he was in the mines when they started to flood in 1946, which ultimately caused him to be crushed and drown. Stanley, aka No. 2, whose failure caused the flooding, had to listen to Bertram scream out for help unable to do anything, and was severely traumatized, especially when the screams stopped. He remained like that when he was rediscovered around the same time Duke was, looking straight ahead with a dazed look in his eyes. While he know lives at the Ulfstead Railway Museum and has received help, he is very much a changed engine.
- Smudger is a nickname for Jennings, and only lets close friends call her that. She looks like a cross between a Fletcher Jennings Class Bb (Dolgoch’s class) and Townsend Hook/William Finley and originally worked for the Arlesdale Tramway that preceded the Mid Sodor. She's still alive and kicking on the SR, and had some of the tenacity and stubbornness of the _T&F_ version.
- Proteus is a rebuilt Hunslet “Early Port” Alice Class locomotive appearing identical to Covertcoat of the Launceston Steam Railway after its rebuild. Skarloey told his story that he heard from his twin Talyllyn when he was being repaired, which was about an engine that worked on a little tramway in Wales. Once when pulling a passenger train through a thick fog at dusk, he had to stop when the fog became too thick, with his driver wishing the fog would disappear. Soon afterward, a sudden gust of wind caused his carriages to make an unusual creak, followed by his lamp flickering, which seemingly cut straight through the fog. When he returned to the station, his crew and passengers said his lamp is magic. But soon afterwards, his tramway was closed down and he was moved to the Dinorwic Quarry, losing his lamp in the process. No one knows where it ended up, though word says that whoever found it would have their wishes come true.
- The Ghost Engine is Alfred fro the Mid Sodor. Rail repairs on the viaduct section of the Mountain Road were conducted in the summer of 1900, and one day a small section of dilapidated track was removed entirely. The Mountain Road was supposed to be closed for the night, but a mix-up between the maintenance crew and the station staff at Ulfstead Road caused this warning to never be telephoned to Arlesdale. That night Albert would be sent up the Mountain Road on a solo night goods run. Noticing the red flags, he was able to warn his crew (who then shouted to warn the guard) while they set the brakes and climbed out. However, due to the flag being too close to the site, Albert didn’t lose enough speed by the time he reached the removed section and derailed, falling off the right side of the viaduct into the valley below, followed by the rest of his train. While the crew and the guard survived, Albert’s remains were never recovered, and he was pronounced deceased after a search party brought up nothing. Maintenance regulations would become much more strict after the incident. A story based on this incident would later be told to Duncan on the Skarloey Railway.
*When Does Thomas and the Magic Railroad take place?/Where was Edward?*
- Again, more of a headcanon thing, but I have tried to write a basic idea for a more realistic version of the film, called _The Lost Lady of the Magic Railroad._ The movie takes place largely in the area around Killdane. Muffle Mountain is on Sodor being the mountain southwest of Shen Ven on the _Railway Series_ map, and Shining Time is a small hamlet that was serviced by a private railway run by the Stone family that used to run from Killdane to Muffle Mountain. The town served a gold mine at the base of the mountain, which once had so much activity that the rails became covered in golden dust. The film takes place in the summer of 1983, with the viaduct's southernmost side partially collapsing during the final chase, as Diesel 10 grabs onto the other side in a vain attempt to keep himself upright before he falls into the Hawin Ab.
Thomas, our main protagonist, has been temporarily relocated to the yard at Killdane to help manage the yard there as the ‘Electric Line’ has been receiving more work than ever. Under orders from the Fat Controller now being put into action by Mr. Conductor (a man who works for the NWR and just so happens to have that name), Edward is to accompany him and make sure he doesn’t get into mischief.
Thomas and Edward as the main are representations of David Mitton and Wilbert Awdry in a way. One is someone who wants the freedom to do what they want and wants to show they are more than what they do but learns that they enjoy working with others to bring a shared vision to life just as much if not more. The other mirrors Wilbert’s view towards the TV show: as in how Edward is a stickler for the rules because he believes that not doing so might harm the railway, Wilbert was a stickler towards realism and was upset when the show didn’t follow it because he believed that not doing so wouldn’t make for good stories with his characters.
The idea isn't to suggest that Wilbert was wrong for thinking how he did but suggests that Mitton and Allcroft did care about his stories and about portraying the engines as real locomotives, but just had a different perspective on how to accomplish that.
*Freddie the Mid-Sodor Engine/Sir Handel's Maturing Arc*
- My headcanon for Fearless Frederick, or “Freddie” as close friends liek to call him, is that he works for the Gleih Fell Quarry. The quarry is located east-southeast of Rheneas and connects to a line from Great Waterton, which as a result has led to its SR nickname: the Rheneas Slate Quarry. The quarry’s connection to the SR was opened in 1951, but had been open for decades with its own engines, previously using lorries to transfer goods.
Freddie was simply one of the engines whose worked there the longest, and and got to know Sir Handel after the latter was loaned to the quarry for a summer to "whip him into shape." While it hasn't really stuck, Sir Handel has been trying to be more mature, emphasis on the word "trying."
*Hiro Wasn't the First Engine on Sodor*
- Since my headcanon is largely based on the _Railway Series,_ Hiro was never the first engine on Sodor. He's D51 no. 451, and was preserved in Showa Park in Akishima for much of his preserved life. When Thomas went on a world tour from 1999-2001, he went to Japan as both he and the town wanted him to run again, Sir Topham Hatt bought him and sent him to Sodor, where he was regauged based on the plans of his Korean siblings.
*Duke Hasn't Been Found Yet*
- Unfortunately Duke was in the concept art for Season 15's Kevin the Steamie, so it's most likely he's just on the SR somewhere we haven't seen yet.
In James the Red Engine, the blue tank shunter that mocks James about the bootlaces is sentient but illustrated with no face
@@charimew2808 Again, illustrations are not always accurate.
Also "Thomas and Duck hate each other" is a rather extreme take. With your evidence, I legitimately think that the term 'rival' is a better term.
Hello Tug! I love your Thomas And Friends Theories!
This has definitely been one of the most interesting videos on the channel yet!! Unlike the History Video of the Engines Build dates or timelines that are Headcannons or Facts, this is all Questions and Unknown! This is definitely so interesting and gave me ideas for my own theories!
This is a great video. I've always been interested by the many theories the fandom has come up with.
An hour of Thomas lore and theorizing is EXACTLY what i needed. Thank you for the great content.
It's just a theory, a Railway Theory!
Maybe the engines had dreams of them being used as other things (e.g.: carnival of playground) because of Smudger and they were misbehaving.
*Sir Topham hat is a former railway director who had a psychotic breakdown and is now confined to a psych ward where he has daily hallucinations about talking trains (the stories take place within his psychie) and the real railway he managed is totally normal and none of the trains can actually talk*
LMAO no
@@devinbarlow2021 You can't prove it's not true
@@Randomstuffs261 I was just saying.
@@Randomstuffs261 Sure, but the same can be said about basically any story. It's just a lazy cop-out, ultimately.
@@thomaszinser8714 But you also can't PROVE that it's a lazy copout
52:05 Your crackup trying to read this theory title seriously got me good 😂
A better example to counter the 2 Henry’s theory, is the Great Bear the failed GWR Pacific it was rebuilt into a 4-6-0 Castle class which is a lot different to the original design
Unlucky Tug mentioning Thomas1Edward2Henry3 is actually surreal
46:23 Here me out, what if Edward & Sir topham hatt were at the Rainhill Locomotive parade, the perhaps same one where bloomer would’ve been found?
Okay, I was shocked to not hear a "Dennis is Norman" Theory.
It's simplistic, easily debunkable, and i think tug has already discussed his disdain for it
Can’t be a Thomas Theory vid without THE “ThomasTheorist” himself
51:50 damn skarloey just ended himself good very good said the classic era skarloey