From Cutting Edge to Obsolete in One Year: the Danish Model 1848 Tapriffel
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- The Danish 1848 Tapriffel was very best of the pillar-breech rifle system, but had the ironic misfortune of being developed just one year before Claude-Etienne Minié’s revolutionary new “Minie ball” appeared in 1849.
Quickly surpassed by more modern rifle systems, the 1848 Tapriffel soldiered on long past its prime, being used in the second Schleswig War in 1864. By then they were hopelessly obsolete, but they continued to serve under the Dannebrog after being converted to breechloaders!
Muzzleloading Tapriffel examples are rare today. Happily, mine is in good enough condition that it can be shot using the historic full powder load, to recreate the historic specification.
Now this is a Forgotten Weapon.
Us Danes still trying to forget 1864 lol
You’ve saved me a good chunk of filming. Now I can just focus on how to clean the bugger.
The French had a tube to add to the cleaning rod with a serrated end to slip over the tige and clean out the fouling around the tige.
@@johnfisk811 Actually two tines with serrations along the inside for holding a wound strip of rag. The Danes used essentially the same. Only the Norwegians seem to have used a toothed breech scraper. I made one too.
Thank you young Chap.@@thebotrchap
Bissell steam shot steam cleaner with small diameter hose over the nozzle. Blasts fouling like crazy.
These are considered a more boutique item, so they're usually dry clean only.
In the manual they call the sights 'bueviser' which would be the 'bow sight' or 'bowed visor' just a little correction 🫡
As a dane i really love watching this! 😂
Hello, I am a Spaniard and I would like to know how you feel or what you think about the '1864' miniseries, if you have watched it, that is
This might help explain the different outcome between the 1st and 2nd Schleswig war, the 1st (1848 - 1851) gave the German a good whooping, while we Danes lost the second one big time, mainly blamed on the fact that the Prussian army was armed with faster shooting breechloading rifles. Between that and the longer range of Austrian + Prussian artillery plus larger numbers of soldiers, but the muzzleloaders got the main blame for our defeat in 1864. This would also explain why the 1848 rifle was converted in stead of replaced.
This is just a guess, but it usually takes a decade or so for an army to modernize its guns, so I don't think Denmark had the 1848 in 1848. Just a quick search suggests they were largely using imported guns in the 1st Schleswig War.
@@Achyirah
Right, but at least the weapons were more evenly matched in the first war, while the Prussian / Austrian Armies came back in 1864 with state of the art super modern rifles and canons, as well as much bigger numbers, making the second war more like a slaughter house.
More like bad strategy and tactics, and lack of artillery.
@@ReviveHF Plenty of artillery, it just didn't shoot quite as far as the Germans dito.
@@AchyirahFrom my own understanding, they were using an earlier series of muskets from the 1820s (I believe Tapriffel Model 1828).
Very interesting and educational. Don't worry about having had to correct a couple of minor details. The man who never made a mistake never made anything.
Thank you, your videos are always so informative and well made. Best of Greetings from Austria. In Austria we call those sights, Dänisches Bogenvisier.
I live in England (UK to you) and until I found your channel had no real idea about mussel loaders, and you had enlighten me. You have a way of explaining quite techincal info into simple ways, thank you. and I look forward to another post from you
There are many shooting clubs and groups in the UK that specialise in muzzle loading firearms.
@@colinarmstrong1892 and if only there were a RUclips channel about British Muzzleloaders... oh, wait!
Pretty sure Americans know "England" as well or better than "the UK". They tend to describe English people as being from "England" but they invariably call us "British".
Mussel loaders ? 🤔
@@shadowsfall5394 The autocorrect spilling chucker strikes again!
When I used to use WordStar it always suggested "religion" as a correction for "railgun".
Another excellent movie - very informative, too. Many years ago, when we lived in Berlin, I got to shoot the carbine version of this rifle and it was, uh, lively, to say the least!
As a dane I can not help getting a little jealous. Those dammed prussians probably stole it! 😂
Another great presentation. Thank you.
I think it got the 'grasshopper' name, because it could jump off the rifle and hide in the grass.🤣
Love that range box! Rifle too!
Hello Brett. Greetings from Germany. Once again an interesting rifle that you show us. The danish tapriffel 1848 is today one of the most rare muzzle-loading rifles of the 19th century. I got such a rifle a few years ago from denmark. I've never shot it before, because of my fear to ruin the muzzle-crown with the heavy iron ramrod. Also, I haven't found a suitable bullet or mould yet. Btw.... the sight on your rifle is not a "jessen-grashopper-sight". Your rifle has the so called "Dahlhoffs Bogenvisier" or "curved-sight". This sight was common at the later produced rifles.
Austrian Jäger rifle also had the curved sight. I am not fond of it, it seems inferior to other types of sights, and takes more time to adjust for distances.
Grüße aus Kuwait!
@offroadguy7772😂👍Ohh, yes off course. But the question is how long it will be so.😢 "Our" government is keen to deliver deadly weapons to ukraine for WW3 but has big problems with some sporting shooters in the own land.....🤔 But this is a topic for another day....
We use a special ramrod with a brass collar to protect the muzzle
Another informative and fantastic video, thanks Brett and be safe.
that point of aim gives a solid example of the rainbow-like trajectory of these old rifles.
Really cool video on a very old firearm.
wow that slo mo of the gas leak at the nipple was awesome! amazing what happens so fast not even aware of it all! also that you're able to keep your face clean while biting the paper with such blackened hands!
I really enjoy your videos. The little old-fashioned diagram as you rammed the bullet on the pillar was very neat. Cheers, Gus
I'm a newer subscriber but I have to say I love your content and you've definitely piqued my interest in an era of firearms that I really used to turn a blind eye to.
Thank you Brett. I suspect that the variations in the bullet from the blows were more from the deformed rear. Tests have shown that one can do quite horrible things to the front of these sort of bullets but base deformations noticeably affect the flight. Well done young sir.
Quite informative, that you.
Your channel is one of the reasons I watch YT and I've started to adore your added comments in writing to the film :D If you ever get deployed to Poland, we've some US Army stationing here, write to me ;)
They never send me anywhere cool. All my friends get Poland and Germany and Romania and Italy. Maybe someday!
How did you acquire the gun? It's quite a journey it made. From Denmark, probably through Germany to Pennsylvania. But I dobt it would be vet bringback. Considering piles of modern weapons, choice for most people would be obvious. Although there is at least one black powder enthusiast in the military now, so I guess there could have been one back then xD Or maybe Geram, who captured it later immigrated to US with the rifle. Or maybe somebody just bought it while in Europe. We'll never know, but it would be a cool story.
If you just have to seat the projectile in the basement, you probably should be using a muzzle guard on that "rare example" antique, because damn!
Very interesting rifle, thanks for sharing!
It was pretty good for it's time, especially when everyone else is using smooth bore muskets.
Cool rear sight. Reminds of a mantis more than a grass hopper but that might be splitting bugs. Interesting presentation. I had heard of pillar breach system but had not seen in in detail.. Thanks! I enjoyed.
Very interesting video Bret…
Could the “Grasshopper” sight be a reference to rifleman sights? Weren’t the old rifleman who often wore green uniforms sometimes referred to as “grasshoppers“? Just a thought…
I think it's just because the sight is curved, like the silhouette of the bug
Hi Brett, after watching your previous Tapriffel video several years ago I wanted to one get of these very interesting riffles. As luck would have it a very nice 1850 model came up for auction locally and since one knew what it was, I bought it inexpensively. As unofficial head of the American Tapriffel collectors association maybe you could tell us where to get the special projectiles we all need. Thanks for all your excellent and informative videos!! Cheers, Paulo
What problems did a pillar breech cause as far as cleaning this muzzle loading rifle ? I own some pistols with "Patent" breeches, which I hate, because I have to use 2 different size ramrod cleaning jags to clean them with.
They were difficult to clean even with specially made cleaning attachments for getting around the pillar.
Very Nice vídeo as always, you are the best channel about the rifle musket era on RUclips by far.
I own a rifle with the sabe tecnology used in the other side of this conflict, the also Thouvenin system Schleswig-Holstein M1848 Dornbüchse made by S&G in Suhl. Most were captured by Denmark and converted into its model 1854 Tige rifle, mine was brought here to Brazil in 1850 with former Schleswig-Holstein soldiers contracted as merceneries know here as "Brummers", these Dornbüchse styaed in Service Well into the Paraguayan War (1864-1870).
The rifle was made to give the rebels a modern Tige design against Danish M1848, deisgn is quite similar tô the prussian M1839 but 4 deep grooves, pillar breach, ajustable rear sight and different calibre 17.5mm.
Sorry for my english, awesome video Love the channel
The "rebel" taprifles where (as you mention) coveted to use the same caliber of bullet as the danish M1848 and they where used in 1864.
@@thomasbaagaard Used as regular service weapon, named as "Suhler Tapriffel M1854", later converted to Snider system breechloaders
I’d say you did a good job with your shooting! Sure wouldn’t be the target! It is easy to see the quality of this rifle and I’m sure it’s fun to shoot. But then again, black powder is just plain fun and as I always say, it’s like shooting history and gives you a deep appreciation for those soldiers and their way of soldiering. Kind Thanks and Many Blessings! One day I’d Love to stop by and talk! DaveyJO in Lancaster Co. Pennsylvania
Is the volume around the pillar completely filled with powder? If not then wouldn't t this be a void and people will freak out. And second. Wouldnt this mean the powder is laying around the pillar randomly depending on how the paper drops in the breach that you would have slightly cocked powder load and cause uneven pressure side to side (or top to bottom more likely) which may upset the bullet during initial ignition.
There is a void. And it was left deliberately. It was found to give better performance having a slight air gap between powder and bullet, than the bullet directly on the powder. Some
specialized Austrian rifles continued using pillars, not to expand the bullet, but ensure the air gap remained.
Today if you mention “air gap” people immediately assume the gun will inevitably explode but the history and reality are a little more nuanced of course.
@@papercartridges6705 That is some kind of record on comment response! You are really without compare (cap and ball for metal cartridge, you for paper) on youtube when it comes to this era of firearm.
Keep your head down out there. I am sure in a couple years those spitzer cartridges will fall out of vogue and you won't have to worry about shots coming in a kilometre away.
Fascinating video, especially how it might be the only one in the US and was likely a war trophy. On a different note please do upgrade your mic set up, the rest of the video is so well done. Edit: After watching another video I think it might just be the mic placement in this video.
"Cutting edge to obsolete in one year"
Franklin: "Yeah, evolution is bi-
I have acquired a "Carabina da Cacciatore" m1850, the Kingdom of two Sicily’s take on a pillar breech rifle. Now, there were two models, the 1848 "a stelo" and the 1850 "camera a maschietto".
"stelo" means stem and "maschietto" meaning "little man" is a common italian term for pillar. So both of these can be translated to pillar breech. Wonder what I will find when I look down that bore
Nice! Where do you find such exquisite pieces of history?
As a Dane trying to read the document, boy I'm I happy we stopped using gothic script 😅 I got there in the end but it took some time 🤣Uh and ending on "Dengang jeg drog afsted" what a marvellous patriotic and funny song.
I have been trying to find some rule for why some official military handbooks from the late 1840ties are not using gothic and others from the 1860ties are.
The only idea I have is that books for officers (compared to books for the privates or nco's) are more likely to be none gothic...
but yes, the "font" used in many of the period books is a pain in the ...
I realize it would be farbesk, but a 69 cal cleaning rod muzzle protector might help preserve the top of the bore while seating the projectile? Thank, for another great video.
that rear sight does have a vague resemblance to certain varieties of grasshopper
Good Video
When we use them, we throw the ramrod until it bounce back. At 50m accuracy is within half a hand, load 55-60 grains, 55 is more pleasant
I kinda wonder if it’s possible to mount a scope on this antique without marring it in any way whatsoever. That would make possible to assess the repeatability/potential accuracy of this weapon.
Hello Brett. Your assumption about this beeing the peak of advanced military weapons is way off. In a rowing distance from where your tapp rifle was produced, they produced "kammerlader" rifles (chamber loader) at the same time.....
Real unicorn rifle and very interesting to see it shot with all the history. Screw that guy who was presenting the wrong stuff :)
Is it just me, or is the muzzle velocity rather low? Judging by the close up it appears that between pressing the trigger and hitting the target, something like half a second passes by, for 100 metres (?). Is it because you're not using a full charge, or was the muzzle velocity historically so low?
The velocity is pretty low. About 850 feet per second. I am using the full historic charge.
@@papercartridges6705 Was it common for that era to have such low velocities, or its just this particular rifle?
@@TheAncientAstronomerPretty common for the time
I haven't done the math but the thought experiment works. Apologies if my verbal doodling is too obvious.
Momentum is preserved. So the bullet momentum is the same as the rifle momentum as they part ways in opposite directions. If that huge 16mm bullet was to go any faster the >2kg rifle has to go faster as well. The recoil already appears to be close to what could be handled under combat conditions.
Bottom line, our modern shoulder held weapons fire a smaller bullet much faster and this allows the rifle recoil to stay reasonable. Double the bullet weight only doubles the energy, double the velocity quadruples the projectile energy while only doubling the momentum/recoil of the rifle.
If you have to carry the lethal force then more powder gives a velocity increase for much less weight than the equivalent increase using more lead. Serving people will know this better but I am guessing the carry weight has not been reduced over the years. This means the modern soldier can carry more bullets than their 19th century equivalents, the bullets are more lethal, and the recoil remains sensible. This is progress unless you happen to be on the receiving end. Keep safe.
Didn't the Lee Metford also use this kind of rounded rifling in order to reduce black powder fouling?
Not for that purpose, no. It was designed for smokeless - they only used compressed BP because Cordite wasn't ready when the rifle was.
@@skepticalbadger so the rounded rifling in the Lee met ford wasn't an anti fouling measure? What was it for then?
They used them under and just after the ww2 , due to the heavy bullet had the right thump on sea mine dispatching . The metallic cartridge version .
oh man, where do you get these all the time ?!
"...and so grandpa checks can he still beat the mark in the mountain."
How the hell do you clean the the breech of a rifle like this?
When you were doing the 5 aimed shots, there were several moments when I legitimately thought the footage was sped up because of how quickly you manipulated the gun.
I’ve done several “5 shot challenges” with various rifles, and this was by far the slowest. The fastest was 1:18 I think, with the P/53 Enfield.
@@papercartridges6705Danish Period numbers only expect 2 aimed shots a minute... so no surprise there.
Project idea
Conical bullet and buckshot for a 69 caliber smoothbore musket
As an aside, have you seen the excellent movie about the Battle of Dybbol? Absolutely appalling in the violence, especially with regard to the use of artillery.
The accuracy looks about the same as what we saw with the smooth bore.
it should not be.
Here is a table of the expected accuracy.
musket.dk/wp-content/uploads/acruacy.jpg
The left column is range.
The next is the radius of a circle that hold half the shots.
Tapriffle first,
then the ex french M1822 turning into a riflemusket.
and finally the ex french M1822 as a smoothbore.
Note that the danish feet and inches are about 3% longer than the US version.
100 Alen = 200 danish "Fod" = 206 Feet
I have #644 Tapriffel 1848/53/65 danish. there is smaller number only still in existence. it is the lowest one I've ever seen. Denmark made most (and Suhl Taprriffel) either in museums or destroyed. The BTW the Snider conversion also known as 17mm Danish. Which is what I have.
That’s very cool! I’d like one of the conversions someday.
@@papercartridges6705 Just to explain where i got it. I gave a donation to the local homeless shelter. I know the office there because i happen to see it in the office. So in return for the donation they gave it to me. To be frank, if you would be interested i know the firearm but would allow you to do a show with it. I do not want to do it online myself. The only deal is that you would have to have the ammunition made. Or if it is what you are to make an offer. it is in good condition.
If my calculations are correct 300 alens is 188m. Dont know if you mentioned it in the video ❤
Honestly I can’t remember haha! Thanks.
300 Alen = 206 Yards = 188m
How much that old riffle cost?
I bought it close to a decade ago for a few hundred bucks, seller had no idea what it was, “old Civil War musket” he called it.
so instead of slamming the rod in the barrel, try using a wooden mallet to tap on the rod and seat the bullet. might help preserve the barrel.
That’s a smart idea!
If only they had put a captive bore guide on the ramrod.
Its like a cannon
Dänemark 1 Alen/Aln = 278,25 Pariser Linien = *0,625 Meter*
2 feet (British or American units) = 0.61 Meter
@@derekp2674yep, 1 Alen = 2 fod. (feet) but the Danish feet and inches are a bit longer than the American one.
Ah, the times before standarization, when every country used their own measurements. Now is just down to US and the rest of the world xD
Similar to the carabine a tige gotcha