STOP DOING THESE! Dangerous Habits at Non-Towered Airports
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- I'm not perfect on the radio (no one is all of the time) but I've been noticing some situations happen time and again that I think are worth addressing... they are a few mistakes in our communications at non-towered airports that can lead to dangerous situations. They are easy to make but also easy to fix, so I think it's worth drawing some attention to them today so we can all try to make the skies a little safer!
Video Chapters:
0:00 - Risky Situations
0:18 - VFR and (Practice) IFR Traffic Together
1:53 - FAA's Guidance on IFR Traffic at Non-Towered Airports
2:45 - Are other people here?
3:19 - Common Mistake to Lose Your Radio
4:14 - Leaving Out KEY Info
5:44 - Something We Often Forget
6:03 - What about towered communications?
Mentioned at the end of the video:
- Advisory Circular: www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/m...
- 15 ways to get better at ATC RIGHT NOW: • 15 Ways to Instantly G...
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I always appreciate the IFR jets that would call when they start their initial decent and said "we're 20 minutes out, will be flying straight in runway 35." And then they'd call again like ten minutes out, then make normal distance calls once they were within about 10 miles. I always found the time thing to be very helpful when I'm beating up the pattern with a student so I can sort of plan a time frame when I need to start thinking about extending downwind for them.
Your #1 point about IFR/VFR traffic mix callouts is a very good one. I've been guilty of this myself, so I will thus forth change my callouts to include distance & direction from the airport. Thanks for the tip!
You got it, man. This is real. I lived this situation a few times on both VFR and IFR situations myself. Thanks for your approach on this subject.
I have been flying for a few decades. I have encountered most of the situations you covered. This is a VERY good reminder! Thanks.
I so totally agree. These things have bugged me for a long time. And you know what else? Once pilots get the lingo down, they sometimes get the impression that they can show how cool they are, or impress you with their professionality, by rattling off their arrival announcements so fast that you can't understand them. Even if they get all the info, other pilots must be left asking "what did he say?" C'mon, it's not a contest. Slow down and pronounce each syllable as though you hope somebody will hear what you are saying. You're probably talking to some student pilots who are already confused enough.
Hi, I'm your mentioned student pilot!! I was stressed that I wasn't going to be able to speak fast and I would get into trouble for it. Thankfully I learned there is no rule on speed, that I should go as fast as I'm comfortable. Accuracy and speaking clearly is most important. So I call out in a natural pace and if anyone doesn't like it....
I thought they did it to keep the wave open.
@@BigKeithDog If that's their intention, then they should think about the fact that they're likely going to clog the radio more than if they had slowed down, since now someone may have to ask them to repeat what they just said.
Your first point on VFR and IFR traffic flying together is SUCH a great point! As a VFR pilot, I have experienced this confusion a number of times at my primary, non-towered airport. There are a couple instrument approaches on the primary runway and often times I'll hear IFR pilots calling an approach.... and, aside from which runway they're planning on using, I have no clue where they are >_> Like you mentioned, I should take the time to learn the location of primary fixes and waypoints in the area, but I think it would be most helpful if the IFR pilots added some relative location and intention information to their calls as well. We can all take some extra responsibility here and share our airports in a more safe way.
Great video!
As military pilots, we are trained to call distance, cardinal direction, and intended runway when flying into non-towered airports. We are taught, not in a negative way, that VFR traffic does not need to and is not required to know our terminology therefore we use basic distance direction so everyone knows where we are and where we are going.
Yes, I teach all my students to announce distance and direction from the field.
Even if you were only speaking to IFR traffic, they would have to know every approach and fix.
@@burritojgt Yeah but you transmit on UHF for the most part except for some cargo planes which civil aviation does not hear. As a military radar controller I constantly deal with civil aviation stepping on military pilots transmissions because they don't pick up UHF. Also military aircraft have advanced radar systems (minus the A-10) that provide azimuth, bearing, and distance from NAVAIDs which not all civil aviation planes have.
What I like to do for practice approaches is at each fix, write down a distance and direction on the approach plate (ForeFlight has a feature where you can write on plates, I’m assuming other EFBs have this as well - it’s been quite a while since I’ve used the old paper charts). So for an approach to something like runway 36, I’ll just write, “call 11 miles south” next to the IAF on the plate. It makes things a little easier.
All IFR Pilots have been trained to be VFR pilots. Many VFR pilots don’t have any IFR training. Always speak to your audience.
Thank you for that!
I completely agree Sir. Great video. I've been flying 20 years and currently fly for the Airlines. While inbound IFR (which we always are) I stress to my crew members to use your recommended verbiage. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
Dead on with the IFR communications w/ VFR traffic @ non-towered. I've thought to myself "Did that guy just say he was 5 miles from passing over... GrubHub???" I dont know where the heck that is... but luckily I had ADS-B to glance at and I thought to myself "Oh, you're about 15 miles north of the airport inbound on an instrument approach in a jet... got it."
Also, thanks for all the first time buyer videos. You fill a gap of aviation videos on youtube. Your advice helped me become a proud aircraft owner!! Keep up the good work!
I like that you bring up the reality of the situation with regards to “familiarizing” yourself with the airport. You can argue that, but people aren’t going to do that all the time. Best to just say your distance so VFR traffic understands. That’s always been my stance. Even in the RJ I still do that because you never know how many student pilots are in the pattern.
This just popped up in my recommended. Im trading for my IFR and I found this content entertaining and perspective. Thank you for sharing and clear skies
Glad you enjoyed!!
This is awesome! I've experienced the same frustrations with pilots who make these mistakes. This summary is a great way to help me not make them.
Great tips & reminders. Thanks Charlie!
Thanks for posting this… as another low time, VFR pilot, I am familiar with the only IFR approach to my local field, but rarely educate myself on the approach plates for other airports in the area (nor would I remember the info if I did! - I imagine it becomes easier to remember as you progress through IFR training).
It can be very confusing especially if you have never flown any IFR with approaches before. As a pilot almost complete with my commercial, I would never be upset if another pilot asked questions about my position or what my intentions were if I did not make it clear enough. Always speak up if you have questions. If they get annoyed, then screw them. They should be willing to communicate anything necessary to ensure safety of other pilots and themselves at all times. Hopefully you are able to work on your instrument rating. Flying IMC is a blast and definitely helps with your piloting skills. Good luck!
You are SPOT on with this video! I fly out of a non-towered Texas field, and radio work is horrendous there. I won't say which airport as feelings are easily hurt these days! :)
I know you don't have to, but when the pattern is crowded I like when people advise that they have traffic in sight. When I just enter the downwind I make sure I'm not cutting in front of someone by announcing that I have them in sight, and for people behind me it would be nice to know that they have me in sight so they don't start creeping up on you.
Yes! Excellent post. Strait forward and clear. 🥸😁😎
Totally agree. I fly out of a towered field but a lot of the local uncontrolled airports I hear plenty of lax radio calls and poor communication. Just make the right calls and tell people where you are, what you’re doing, and that’s it!
You are a very good teacher and so relatable. I enjoy your subtle and appropriate video edits/effects too.
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it!
I was expecting this video to be silly/pointing out unnecessary stuff tbh, but this video was great. To a well trained pilot these basic points are common sense, but some pilots weren’t taught these main points and this video is great for educating that.
Thanks for the video! Stay safe :)
Glad you found it helpful and enjoyable!
Good stuff for us all! The video and comments provide food for thought; the occasional review of basics is beneficial, regardless of experience. One rather sophomoric desire I harbor though is the notion that every "Other traffic in the area please advise" call need be answered by the smoky trail of a HARM...
Excellent video......I must admit the IFR traffic calls can be cryptic. Thank you for making this video! Long overdue
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed and found it helpful!
You nailed it all because I see it all and have heard it all and this is well worth every word you are saying and I totally understand and agree. Thank you for sharing
Great video. I’ve been a cfi for 13 years and you explained non-towered airport communication very clearly.
Wow! Thanks so much!
ALSO, be sure you're on the right frequency. Had a near miss a while back because the DA was on the wrong channel, heard no traffic so he made a straight in approach as I was on my base. Could have been really bad.
I am guilty of this. I was on the wrong freq by one number, 122.9 instead of 122.8, and thought I was the only one in the pattern. I was calling my positions anyway and upon landing rollout, I look up and see someone doing the same thing from the opposite direction. I was p*ssed at him until I realized I was in the wrong. I apologized to him and felt like an idiot.
I’m embarrassed to say this has happened to me twice.
Thank you...great reminders!!!
Great video Charlie - Thank you !!
I’ve been teaching what you are saying for years. Excellent video and well said.
Charly, that's all so true! I am a commercial pilot at a small airport in Germany with lots of traffic on the weekends. VFR only with an Info-frequency and traffic info only from tower. But still, everyday people are trying to kill each other and me and my passengers. Just stick to the rules and everything will be fine. Great video!!! 👌
As a CFI I really appreciate you making these videos for others as they are very accurate, thank you.
Thanks so much! Really appreciate that!
I love your content!!! You touch on things that we as pilots may not see as a big deal. Im currently training at Thrust and about to complete my checkride. I hope I can bump into you one day at Addison. Would love to learn from your experience!
Very cool. Addison is such a great place to learn. You'll be confident going in just about anywhere else because of what you're learning there.
Good points. Very good job referencing the advisory circular. Creditable. I think a great takeaway for every pilot watching is your private pilot license is only a license to keep learning. I encourage everyone to at least at minimum get instrument rated. It'll make you a better pilot.
Great tips Charlie thanks!
Thank you for the information.
More great points Charlie!!! A lot of your points apply to ATC Comms as well. I've had many pilots mumble their calls and make calls WAY more complicated then needed to be. As a controller, I get it - students pilots as well as new pilots are just not comfortable on the radio. Took me a while to be comfortable on the radio and my father was a controller as well as my first flight instructor. All that being said: who are you, where you are (airport you are flying at or closest NAVAID), what you are doing (as simple and complete as possible) - is the best way to go.
A note on the closest NAVAID part, from a controller's point of view: controller's do NOT know every fix/waypoint/navaid in the world. Recently, I worked a pilot who called for flight following and he checked in saying "I'm 177 miles from.." some fix I have never heard of. This isn't the norm, but you'd be surprised how often that happens. It was a busy day, I had many 1200 (vfr codes) on my scope, I was working a busy final at the time, just a lot going on. Turns out the pilot was already in Center's airspace (outside of mine), without the his transponder turned on and in really small airplane (which is hard for the radar to find), and the best part - 2 miles west of a VOR.
Before I continue, I HAVE DONE THIS TOO. This pilot probably found my frequency on the chart and made his call. NOTHING wrong with that. What made the situation worse was the slow talking, mumbling, not ready for the radio call and clearly unaware of his position other than what the GPS was saying. It happens, I get it. But this is where Charlie is spot on. Keep it simple, short and be ready to talk.
Thanks for this perspective! I'll admit I laughed out loud when I read 177 miles! Yikes! But there is a LONG list of things that people would laugh out loud about if they had seen me do it. :)
As a native to the uncontrolled tower life, I would also add in: don’t talk about other subjects not pertaining to flight. All to often I hear “Yeah the hot springs were great today Bob, want to grab some lunch?”. And immediately after three people step on each other while a useless transmission takes place. Keep it concise, effective and reverent to your position/intentions. No one cares about your chicken salad sandwich.
YES!!! 122.8 is the worst in Ohio at least because people tie up the frequency for like 10 minutes talking about lunch
Pilot/air traffic controller here... this is an excellent video!! Great work Charlie.
Thanks so much! Really appreciate the feedback.
Good Info and reminder !
As a 1400 dual given CFII i agree whole heartedly with all this. Good stuff!
Your first point is also what my CFI told me to do when I start practicing approaches for my IR training. Good point.
I was most active instructing 30 yrs ago Inst and ME. All good advice and nothing has changed in pet peeves or gripes about COM at uncontrolled airports.
Great learning experience!
Thank You!
Always do a radio check on the CTAF/Unicom frequency when starting to taxi...that way you know you can transmit and ^hear* the receive. You then know for sure the mic button works, the radio works, your headset and mic works, the volume is at a good level, etc.
And, yes, if you aren't sure, ask.
Be very careful of practice IFR approaches who come in on the OPPOSITE runway. We have a VOR approach where people tend to do the reverse direction. Have to be very careful with those for both pilots.
Practice approaches are VFR approaches and the pilot should still be maintaining VFR. So it is on the pilot to see and avoid. A IFR aircraft in class E airspace is also still responsible to see and avoid VFR traffic. The rules are strange but thems the rules so I wouldn't assume all pilots are complying with FAA rules but they should be. Edit: Also just a pertinent piece of information the RNAV is point to point GPS navigation and doesn't always follow a straight path to the runway. It could do a half circle from the initial approach fix to the runway and basically traffic enters already on a base to the runway instead of a final. I recommend always being familiar with the airspace. It is the equivalent of learning defensive driving. You can do everything right but someone else can put you in a dangerous situation. In aviation where stakes are much higher every tool in your belt is that much better for staying safe.
My home airport has similar problem. Our calm wind runway is opposite the one the jets use for ILS. They get held longer on the approach frequency sometimes due to a Class C and Class D right next to our Class E instead of switching to Unicom. I learned a huge lesson one day when my CFI was in the plane ahead of me with a CFI student waiting to depart. He could see the inbound on gps but they weren’t responding to his radio calls asking if they were inbound. We all waited and they indeed landed. Now I’m even more vigilant looking for it.
THAT was a great video! Well stated!
Thanks so much!
Well said. Calm days are the worst of conditions as you highlighted.
I've heard that in several places - "...over the Walmart..." - That's right, because everybody, including the non-local pilots always know where the Walmart is. Better to be 'plain language' and specific - great pointers!
Great video !!!!!
AWESOME video! Thanks! You rock
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed!
Very good. I'm a glider CFI and wrote this for my students
Radio Procedures at Non-towered Airports.
Tony Verhulst CFI-G
version 28 Dec 18
Recently, I’ve heard some less than perfect radio procedures at Sterling. The proper use of the radio is the second best way of avoiding close encounters with other traffic. The best way, of course, is good use of your eye balls. Most airplane pilots, incidentally, are pretty good about making radio calls in the pattern, use standard phraseology, and make calls on downwind, base, and final. When everybody speaks the same way on the airwaves there is much less confusion. After hearing calls like "2-33, IP", I think that it's fair to say that many of us can stand some improvement in this area.
Let's talk about what we're doing. At non-towered airports (FAA speak for what we normally call "uncontrolled airports"), we make blind transmissions. That is, we make announcements and we don't expect anyone to answer . A proper blind radio announcement consists of 5 Ws - Who are you talking to, Who are you, Where are you, What are you doing, and Where. Here's an example:
"Sterling traffic, glider 1225S, left downwind runway 34, landing on the grass, Sterling"
Who are you talking to? The traffic around Sterling airport.
Who are you? Glider 1225S.
Where are you? Left downwind runway 34.
What are you doing? Landing on the grass, runway 34.
Where? Sterling.
Please remember the following points:
We share the CTAF (Common Traffic Advisory Frequency) 122.9 with several other airports. Saying who you're talking to (Sterling Traffic) is important.
In announcing who you are, it's important that you get the word "glider" in there - even if you omit your tail number. The word "glider" tells every powered aircraft in the vicinity that they may be required to yield the right of way since gliders, normally, have the right of way over all powered aircraft. Just saying "2-33" is not enough because most airplane pilots won't know what a 2-33 is.
Be sure to announce which downwind (or base) you're on. Remember that for runway 16 at Sterling, the powered traffic will be flying left hand patterns and the gliders will be on the right. By announcing your pattern direction, other pilots will know where to look for you.
Don't use the term "IP" in your transmission. Non glider traffic won't have a clue what you're talking about.
Proper blind radio calls are easy and become automatic in just a short time and I encourage everyone to learn it and to use it. For more information, refer to chapter 4, section 1-9 of the Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM).
Finally, remember that the possession and use of a radio at a non-towered airport is not required by any government agency. You will encounter non-radio (NORDO) equipped aircraft. It is every ones responsibility to see and avoid.
Excellent! I’ve incorporated this in my calls for years. Vfr do not know ifr waypoints.
Super helpful!
Great Tips!
I’ve been saying this for 20 years about being more specific with practice ifr descriptions. Glad the faa finally put out the ac
#3…lol that was me! Good Stuff!
I thought that was you.
I did not pick that up until I read your comment LOL. All the best to you blancolirio.
Nice! 😊👍🏻
Excellent, well said.
Here even Airliners get this wrong.IFR traffic in VMC does not provide any priority and must conform with VFR traffic!
Completely agree on the IFR fixes. Nobody is going to be familiar with those even if the are instrument rated. I know the fixes at my home airport but not everyone there is either local or instrument rated
Great video dude! I like calling out at the untowered stuff all the time. I even call out when I fly over at 4500 or something.
It doesn’t hurt, but keep in mind a lot of aircraft flying over the field at higher altitudes are on the radio with ATC (approach) and it would be a pilot deviation to switch off that frequency just to call that you’re crossing midfield at 3000’ above TPA.
@@VictoryAviation Yeah for sure. Sorry, I should have said that I do that when Im VFR and really only for the benefit of guys beating up the pattern where I fly over. There is a big ATP school here, and they send a dozen guys at a time up to an uncontrolled.... So it gets crazy, but I like for them to know I am passing by.
@@StephensonRaceTech Oh for sure. I’ve heard a lot of stories about bigger schools. I’m so fortunate that our school’s airport stays relatively uncluttered compared to the really busy schools/airports. I can’t imagine a quarter of my PPL hours consisting of waiting to take off or taxiing. What a waste.
Great tip on the squelch; something my CFI taught me right from the beginning and I teach my students.
You missed "Any traffic in the pattern please advise". My usual reply to this is "Just the guys with no radios".
Squelching the radio is a habit I picked up during my flight training days that I still do to this day as a vehicle operator on the movement area. Great habit to have
these are Excellent points of advice, and pet peeves of mine.
Good suggestions there.
Thanks. When I was first flying my home built T-18 at the Montague Airport, a Cherokee nearly landed on top of me. A J-3 Cub and I were flying the pattern and announcing our positions over the radios. The offending pilot, a flight instructor, apparently did a long straight in final w/o using radio. I could have reached his nose wheel if canopy was open. Too close!
Some good points Charlie. To better simplify, I'd say; ..."4 mile final 28 " instead of; "4 mile VOR approach 28." By advising your position relative to the pattern legs is best. CFI Mac
I'd prefer you call the approach. I might be on the same practice approach, and I would want to know if you are on the same (or different!) approach. It also tells me you are not flying the pattern. If you are worried that VFR pilot Dave cannot figure out that VOR approach 28 means runway 28, yo can say VOR approach to runway 28.
I tend to put both together, “4 mile final RNAV 28…”, just in case there is IFR traffic, but VFR traffic still understands I’m on final and it’s still short and informative.
@@jah5r Yea, the key thing is that all IFR pilots used to be VFR only pilots, and we should know how useless it is to VFR only pilots to call "on RNAV approach at JOLLY"...
Ok story. I was departing out of L52 northbound and that runs into the KSBP airspace. I was VFR only pilot and I handle that by staying outside the SBP airspace and tuning the SBP tower just in case. So circling the airspace to the west, and I see the lights of an oncoming aircraft. I am guessing now he was doing the approach to runway 11. Because I was on tower frequency I was able to hear him breaking off the approach because of traffic. If you look at that airspace and the approach, you can see that it starts well outside the SBP control ring, at 4000 ft. Not dangerous, but it got me thinking about how a VFR pilot might be more aware of where the approaches are, and how announcing myself to the tower, even if not in their airspace might be a better idea.
@@jah5r even Better!
I fly out of a non-controlled airport with a fair amount of IFR traffic and luckily where I'm at most IFR pilots announce their location in plain english for us VFR dummies to understand, they're pretty good about keeping an eye out for us. It is super important to be on the lookout for them if you're doing pattern work because they are often coming straight in on a long final, they don't enter the pattern the normal way ( entering the downwind from a 45).
All of these points are fantastic, especially the IFR and volume! Of course it's good to be familiar with IFR traffic at your local airport, their procedures, how IFR even works etc.. however, in reality not only is there a lot to understand and remember, but it's also just a matter of useless clutter in your head. If you get into IFR without being IFR rated, information is just all over the place and the amount of different approaches is just ridiculous. Not only would you have to know them all, but also what they mean/do and what on earth they even are. If I'm a "cute" VFR pilot with barely any hours, it's just overwhelming to learn what an ILS, NDB and VOR is (and what rules there are to them). It'd be a massive deep dive into a whole new world for something you essentially wouldn't even use.
About the volume - I've had this happen myself, and even though it seems so dumb and like something that would never happen, it will for sure if you don't think of it. In my training we'd fly one plane multiple times a day, so what would happen is that a student would fly for 3-4 hours on a solo cross country, then come back, do a quick turnaround and you'd hop in and go. So when I was approaching a controlled airport, I tuned into the ATIS and couldn't hear a single thing. I thought maybe they're not transmitting today, maybe I haven't looked into the notams carefully enough or I'm on the wrong frequency.. turns out, the guy before me just switched COM2 volume to 0 and I didn't check because I never even expected this to be an issue. Luckily I realized early enough because I planned my approach well in advance, which gave me enough time to solve the problem. And that's where the good ol' cheese hole model comes in. There was a problem and it was solved because of the precautions that were taken (early planning). If this safety net wasn't there, it would've created an even bigger issue. Of course you could always just ask ATC for weather information but that would then occupy the frequency in a busy international airport which isn't ideal either. All I'm trying to say is, everything that can happen will happen eventually. Checking and prepping, even if it's redundant and seemingly overly careful, is never a bad idea.
Another thing to think about when practicing IFR in VMC, the VFR traffic is operating with "see and avoid" while you have your eyes inside the cockpit trying to resist the temptation of looking outside to orient yourself.
One job I had as a kid was looking out for traffic while dad worked on his IFR skills.
I remember once we took off out of Rio Vista and a C-5 was operating around Travis AFB. The C-5 leveled its wings and came to a stop on the windshield aimed right at us.
I let dad know and he turned us off a collision course. Good thing too, C-5s are so huge, they are hard to miss. It wasn't close, the C-5 was a good 10 or 15 miles away, but still.
yeah, the thing about listening, hearing nothing, and assuming that no one else is around.... definitely true. cant count the number of times I'm monitoring a freq, i make a call, then immediately 3 others call to announce. None of them would've said a thing if they didn't hear me.
good tips!
Appreciate your vids.
Glad you enjoy them!
Good information
All great points and generally these should all remain true. There is a problem that arises when an airport is so busy that standard radio calls actually become dangerous because of the length. Each call should take no longer than 3 seconds to make. Speaking clearly but quickly helps. Think before you speak. Second, for the sake of brevity, sometimes just calling out aircraft/tail number and location/intention is all that is needed. Where I fly, we are the third busiest airport in the state and we don't have a tower (we have a large flight school). Most of the time it's safe, but when everyone is leaving or arriving at the same time, it gets sketchy. Just be smart. And part of helping the situation is knowing who else is out there. If there's transient traffic inbound, help them out!
You have a point. I fly from a small grass airfield and over the years I saw several dangerous situations develop from a lack of clear communication.
Aviate, navigate, communicate.
And don't f*cking forget that last part!
So true about mixed IFR and VFR traffic...I always thought the same thing when I was working on my instrument rating ..does anyone actually know where we are and what we are doing?? And definitely good form, adding situational awareness and safer to say "have that traffic" in sight at even those non busy, non towered airports!!
Funnily enough, this is exactly why I don’t enjoy flying into non-towered airports anymore. I got my private out of one, and I used to HATE going to towered fields because talking on the radios unnerved me and I didn’t like being told where to go. Then I moved to a towered field for future ratings, and thanks to some extremely nice local controllers I grew to like talking to them. There’s a certain level of comfort knowing a second person is looking out for me and sequencing me into the pattern instead of it just being a free-for-all.
Now every time I visit a non-towered airport it feels like at least one person decides to fly directly at me or on the crossing runway or even, in one case, the opposite runway. I do my best to be clear on what I’m doing and where I am, but these airports sometimes make me miss my tower controllers!
I like it.. Thanks.
Very True..!
Heard one of the worst habits just today. “Any traffic please advise”. That’s as annoying as “got em on the fish finder”. lolz
Great video. #3 has happened to me before. Seems trivial, but it's not.
Great stuff I used pilot edge to learn the basics of ATC
The first and only big mistake I've made so far as a student pilot is cutting off someone on long final because I didn't understand him. Later I found out he was in fact practicing IFR which is why I wasn't understanding him completely. It was my first solo too. Anyways, I learned a big lesson that day and now I talk to other pilots all the time to confirm their position.
Thank you
good stuff
Totally agree with you, more strict radio should be applied it’s amazing the dangers one can cause when you cut off info :/
Oh my. I flew mainly out of 02C. Had a similar grass roots airport within a couple miles. They did ultralights, sky divers and sailplanes. They were very near where airliners were coming from the BAE VOR into MKE. Four miles the other direction was the county airport, KUES, which at the time was not controlled either. We all coexisted with most planes not having a radio at all. And that was in the 60's when I'd see a half dozen planes in the pattern.
Good luck. I hear these problems whether it’s a Cessna 150 or a Gulfstream 650. As you said, better to just ask them just what they are up to...
Nothing like sharing what you learned the hard way. Being shy and keeping secrets helps no one.
Captain Charlie, that's a great subject ,we all know you fly a Cessna but be careful that Bird 3:03 almost strike you from behind
Great video! I'm curious why the FAA apparently feels aircraft type and color are optional but wants the aircraft call sign in each communication at non-towered airports? (See, FAA AC 90-66B, sec. 10.3.1, 3/13/18). What's more useful to a pilot? 'Green Cub' or 'N1234G.'
Good video. At the small airport where I am learning, landing on 15 requires a back-taxi. On Saturday, we were landing 15 and while we were in the pattern another pilot (I met him later) announced his intentions (doing a photo shoot just North of the pattern followed by a full stop). My CFI and He both clarified our intentions… (and that there was a student attempting this landing!) What could have been a conflict or at least a frustrating situation turned into a moment of flying comaraderie…
Is this by chance at 18V _ Platte Valley Airpark in Colorado?
No… 0G3 in Nebraska.
Oh ok. I ask because this same situation happened to me last weekend. Except it was a vintage plane with no radio and someone on the ground was supposed to be calling for them and wasn’t. Our 15 is the same way in that it requires a taxi back. I had called my position and that I was a full stop with taxi back and the plane with no radio nearly landed on me
Great points. My home airport is pilot controlled airfield. We share a frequency with another airfield that has a number of students based there. My one pet peeve with them is not saying the airfield name at all.
On the other hand saying it again at the end of the radio call is not something we are taught to do here and might be an USA only thing. It would be interesting to know if people in other countries are taught to do that or not.
Thankfully the airfield I fly out of does not have an IFR approach so that has not been an issue I've had to deal with, so far.
As an airport operations tech who worked overnights at an airport with no tower after 21:00, making radio calls is critical. One example of of this is when I was doing a runway inspection at 2am when I saw a pilot turn in short final with no radio calls. I Didn’t even know anyone was in the pattern even with me making my regular call outs.. Needless to say I hauled ass off the runway and checked to make sure my equipment was functioning correctly and I was on the correct frequency. It checked out. Luckily he was landing the opposite direction as me so I could see him on final. After he parked I went and yelled at the pilot for neglecting to see the flashing amber lights on the runway and continue his approach, and then asked why he and/or his copilot hadn’t made any radio calls in the pattern, at all. He replied “we were busy”. To me if you’re too busy to make calls or have bearing on your surroundings, your not ready or in any position to land.
Clear communications is key and agree I regards to this discussion. Non-towered airports are the worst and have the highest risk. Whether improperly communicating, or perhaps not communicating at all, present serious challenges.
My biggest pet peeve at my local non towered airport (KSZP, Santa Paula) is people not knowing the difference between 1 mile and ten miles. One guy called out he was inbound for the pattern and several miles west. So I took off thinking he was far away. Fortunately I was able to see him before we would have collided in the downwind.
They do this all the time...I see them 10 miles out on ADSB when they're announcing 3 mile final.
Had this happen at Waukegan, a class Delta airport, a number of years ago. Mid air collision, three dead. One main reason was because one plane seriously misstated the distance they were from the airport while inbound.
I unfortunately had to stop flying due to cost but I still study. This was a great video and help me a lot chair flying and when I'm back i the air
Another point to keep in mind if you are IFR into an untowered airport on a VFR day, there could possibly be aircraft in the pattern that don't have a radio, so even if you make it clear what you are doing on the radio, shooting a straight in final may catch someone in an old cub off guard.
Great video! There are so many useful takeaways from this.
I will respectfully disagree on one point of guidance. In order to simplify radio communications, for the love of all that is holy, please only state landing intentions on base and final unless asked by another pilot or ATC. We don’t need to know every single time you’re on the go/upwind that you are planning a touch and go when advising traffic on base and final gives everyone all the info they need with reasonable time to spare.
Secondly, just because you are on an IFR approach and calling out mile markers instead of fixes in plain English, does not mean VFR pilots or even IFR rated pilots already in the pattern will pay attention. Case in point: a few days ago I was flying a practice ILS approach. I made five different inbound calls with DME from the runway included for clarity, and was still blatantly cut off by a Blackhawk helicopter performing pattern work. I had to drop the airspeed and side step in order to creat enough separation for safety due to their disregard of the radio calls. We had the right away as we were already on short final as they were on the downwind and cut in front of us via turning base on our final. Let that sink in. If it was a Blackhawk crew flying, and this wasn’t even close to a training base for new crew/pilots, then the crew clearly had been through military flight school and still mistakenly cut us off with a pilot, co-pilot, and two crew chiefs on board.
No matter how much plain English you use in the pattern, even experienced pilots still make mistakes. Keep your head on a swivel and keep your ears open. If you don’t see someone or don’t understand their motives/radio calls, SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING! Clear radio communication will save your life and others.
Good comment. I'm all for respectful disagreement. Sorry about the situation with the chopper... I definitely agree with you that even with great communication people still make mistakes and risky scenarios occur as a result. Sounds like you're really good about communicating though and trying to be crystal clear so that other folks know where you are and what your intentions are. Keep up the good work.
@@AirplaneAcademy I can always improve. I try to do as best as I can. Sometimes no matter how much you try, others just don’t get it.
10K hour GA pilot here- and this is my biggest pet peeve on the subject. Pilots who say for example “Cessna such n such 3 miles east for runway such n such for landing. Any traffic in the area please advise.” The last part is the kicker. The pilot will get a response or two and assume they have the big picture. But they forget about the potential non radio equipped aircraft in the pattern, or maybe they stepped on another transmission and assume by lack of response that no-one else is in the pattern. A non response is a confirmation of absolutely nothing. Eyes outside in the pattern is what keeps people alive.
My biggest pet peeve is aircraft not talking in the pattern because they think if no one is around they don’t have to talk.
It’s like when people don’t use their turn signal because they don’t see anyone around. It’s the person you don’t see who needs it most.
Good point on fixes. Even IFR pilots don't memorize them. We just look at the approach charts.
I’m a military helicopter Instrument Examiner in the DC area. These things can and do happen all the time. Probably the riskiest thing I do regularly is IFR into a class G airport. If there is traffic in the pattern I usually just terminate the approach above the pattern altitude and everyone can enjoy their lives with minimal interaction.