Which one of Rocky's opponent should I talk about next? Btw, having to use a new editing style via stills and gaming footage to stay within fair use, so bare with me!
Another moment in Creed 2 is that when Rocky sees Ivan the first thing Ivan does is say "nice pictures" before noting, with an almost sad tone, that there's no pictures of him.
@@StryfetheWarrior the likely problem is that it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, it would soften Ivan's view on Rocky making him feel he was a part of this person's history. On the downside, it wouldn't be good for his restaurant since that would constantly remind people that "this is the man that killed Apollo Creed". I have a third hypothesis and that would be that Rocky fought Ivan in Soviet Russia. I don't think Soviet Russia at the time would let those pictures see the light of day.
Drago was a loyal soldier of the Soviet Union. He not only lost the fight, his wife, his family, his glory, he also lost his entire country and way of life when the USSR collapsed. He lost everything inside and outside the ring. Losing everything after never losing anything in his life would have been unbearable. Not seeing his picture on Rocky's wall of fame would have felt like a denial of acknowledging his existence.
"No Pictures Of Me? It's important to remember that Rocky Vs Drago was fought in Russia, at the height of the Cold War. The biggest weapon that was used in this conflict was propaganda. Therefore, the reason why there are no pictures of Rocky Vs Drago available is because Drago lost.
I’m glad they humanized Drago in Creed 2 because you can tell he went through a lot of different changes after he lost to Rocky. He lost his home, his wife and his country. Drago learned by the end that he didn’t want his son to end up like him. Ivan Drago didn’t realize how much of a bad guy he was or how he was manipulated by the Soviet Union until all those other things happened. In the end he chose to be the father that his son needed instead of being loved and adored as a hero by his country.
@@StryfetheWarrior it was clear his wife and his country used Drago. playing mind games with him to get him to do what they wanted,by the time he grabed the offical guy for insulting him during the fight you can tell Drago had enough of everything and in the end he wanted to win the match for himself not everyone else. he lost and his wife and country abandoned him....proving they didn't care about him.
True, but it was bullshit he blaimed Rocky for all the sad things in his life. Rocky won that fight fair and with honor, he didn't push the ref away when he beat Drago to the ground!
@@enigma-wv7oc I think on some level he RESPECTED Rocky. In Rocky 4 he nodded YES with his head towards Rocky when Rocky was making his victory speech. He easily could have beaten Rocky up or trashed his restaurant but he did not. I posted above that if they make a Creed 3 or the Viktor Drago spinoff that Ivan should be shown feeling remorse for killing Apollo and do something to help the Creed and Balboa families as a gesture of amends.
I think the saddest part about Ivan's character isn't the fact that his wife, home and country abandoned him because he lost. It's the fact that he believed he deserved it. "She left you! They all did! Abandoned you! Shamed You!" "I lost!"
A much lighter movie explained this tragic trait very well: "I had to win, and when you base your whole life on winning, you have to keep winning." Irv Blitzer, _Cool Runnings_ Sadly, Ivan only saw himself as a champion, and didn't know how to deal with not being one anymore.
@@deanjustdean7818 better than the mindset of today, giving out rewards thats not even deserved nor earned. What kind of mentality will this cause??? I think we're seeing it. Competition is a manly trait. As are Honour Courage Bravery Integrity Discipline Values that are good heathy and stood upon as well as Principle Toughness Independence Leadership Decision-making Protecting Providing Humility and Strength. These aren't really taught anymore.
He did deserve it. He was a proud evil man in Rocky 4. He didnt have to kill a man to prove his point but he did. All that should have happened after he killed Apollo in the first place. Especially after that "if he dies he dies" line on public tv.
@@GerardoSantana I took a class on communication in college and learned that we communicate way more with just our body language than with actual words.
It was kind of weird seeing these to meet in that restaurant , if Sly and Dolph haven't made the Expendables movies together ...the impact have been a lot bigger ..
You can say that the idea for Ivan Drago's character traits came from Sly being impressed with Dolph's look and physique when he auditioned. Originally Sly wanted a hairy 'caveman' like opponent but after looking at Dolph, he decided to go in the opposite direction by having Drago be a fighter that's supposed to be 'the future'.
Oh yeah, he said he was impressed, he was like - “look at him, he’s like 6 foot 6, great shape, great height, good looks, plus he’s got a degree in Chemistry? 🧪 ⚛️ like C’mon” and then he had be part of the cast for ROCKY IV ‘cause at the time, Dolph Lundgren was a doorman, and Sylvester Stallone was like “what? Why?” He’s got all this potential and he was a doorman? And so ROCKY IV happened - best movie ever 🤩🤩🙌🏻🙌🏻😎👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😌😌😌
@@juliocarinonavarrete119 Always have to laugh when thinking about Dolph Lundgren having a more solid claim to being Scientest than TV "Scientests" like Bill Nye^^
I think Drago's robotic persona could have also been inspired by the Terminator, which came out a couple of years prior. Also, I suspect Drago really loathed Nikolai Koloff for ordering him to punish Apollo. Before the match, NIkolai speaks to Drago in Russian and smacks his fists together, implying "end him". You can see the subtle contempt on Drago's face as he turns and looks at his boss as if to say "You're really a POS".
I didn't realize this till I watched Rocky 4 with subs on. During the fight with Drago when Apollo is getting pummeled, right before he is killed, Apollo yells "NO!" everytime Tony says throw in the towel and right before Rocky throws the towel he yells one last time before being killed. Really made the death that much more powerful, because it really show Apollo's desire.
Yea, you could tell Rocky was about to throw the towel as both Duke yelling at him to do so as Apollo was saying No!! At the sametime having Rocky hesitate in heat of the moment.
Apollo knew he was going to die and would rather die in this situation rather than be a regular old man. Basically he would raher die than get old or irrelevant. He had some demons.
My favorite part of the entire Drago character is how understated he is. On the surface he's just a big emotionless brute but there's a lot of depth they don't specifically tell you. When you look deeper you just find a man who just wants to prove himself and make his country proud. His comforting and recognition of his son is such a beautiful example of breaking the parenting cycle and character growth. Giving Victor the support he never got and assuring him it's okay is such a hard thing to do when it's completely foreign to you.
My heart actually broke for Drago . Rocky is a national hero past retirement drago lost everything. Wife left him , sent to the slums to starve with his son , spit on a laughed at . Than his ex leaves a 2nd time when his son isn’t winning that shit is cold 😢
It's more complicated than that. Without boxing rules, Rocky would've been mauled to death by all of his opponents. That's the whole point of Rocky 5. An aging Rocky defeated Tommy in a real street fight. Title belts mean nothing after that. It should've been the end of the series.
I’ve never looked at Drago this way until i saw Creed 2 and this video. Now i know that there’s no one actually won the match between Balboa and Drago. Balboa basically has lost literally everything after the fight, his money, his house, and most importantly, his consciousness due to brain damage. Drago lost everything and even his nationality as a Russian. That’s tragic for both of them
Remember Rocky's speech where he said that 2 people fighting in the ring is better than hundreds of millions fighting? I think he was implying WAR between USA AND RUSSIA and back then (and now actually) many people were afraid of the possibility of NUCLEAR WAR which is MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION. People were talking about how nobody really "wins" a nuclear war because even if you "win" technically based on how its defined in war the losses are so great that you cannot really ENJOY the victory. We kind of saw a MICROCOSM of M.A.D. because even though Rocky technically won they BOTH suffered such huge losses in life that it was basically M.A.D.
It's argued that that fight changed their lives forever. For the worse, but eventually they made peace. They both lost alot after the fight. Like I said the fight changed their lives.
His sentence:" I must break you!" In rocky 4 was already a good hint in my mind. He does not even enjoy it. He has to break him bc he is expected to do it. Not bc he wants it.
Yeah the MUST is the operative here. Not I WILL break you but I MUST break you. Orders are not a choice. But by the end, Drago respects Rocky, as shown by the "to the end" and respectful glove touch they had. Drago never hated Rocky, he hated the state for what they were making him do.
I didn't hear until recently that Viktor Drago is supposed to return in Creed III. If it happens, I hope he lives through the film. I sincerely hope we do see both Viktor and Ivan onscreen again. I loved the entirety of Creed II's story, but for me it was the relationship and story of Viktor and Ivan that made the film as good as it was.
Everyone involved in the filming of "Creed 3" are majorly taking their sweet time with it. I saw Creed 2 about 4 years ago. We also were supposed to get a SPINOFF MOVIE where Viktor Drago is the protagonist and still being trained by his father. The actors for those 2 characters were on a talk show together a few years back right after they filmed Creed 2 discussing their spinoff movie.
@@Zurround wow! I was just saying to myself wouldn't it be nice if they did a Drago movie since Adonis and Viktor were basically neck to neck in ability(like Rocky and Apollo Creed) the last time they fought...they definitely need to make that film happen 😃
@@spaceman-spiff6386 If there was a way to send Viktor back in time to fight a same aged version of Ivan my opinion is that Ivan would totally win (but Viktor is still tougher than Apollo so no death but still beaten up). Viktor was NOT equal to what his father had been.
Viktor and Adonis have already fought twice so if Viktor appears again, many believe he will fight Clubber's son in a #1 contender match. Obviously since the movies have Creed in the title, Adonis will be in the main fight. To be honest, Adonis to me isn't nearly as likable as a main character as Rocky or even as Apollo was. He seems too abrasive to be likable. I actually found myself partially rooting for Viktor in their final fight. I know he's supposed to lose but to me it just doesn't seem believable that Adonis could beat him.
In some way, Drago reminds me of John Walker/US Agent in Falcon and Winter Soldier. Both are what their country wants them to be and because of all the pressure, it slowly was turning them into complete monsters. While you don't justify for what both end up doing, they're both in a way victims of the system.
@@StryfetheWarrior one thing that mostly the media doesn't do enough is how great of a director and story teller/screen writer and emotional range actor Sylvester Stallone is .. You see it throughout the Rocky franchise His acting when he begs Tommy not to go and when he opens up about Apollo to his son was brilliant
16:55 So, Drago could have saw some shit while fighting in Afghanistan for the ussr and developed ptsd which was triggered by the loud noises and lights of Apollo’s entrance - which caused him to lash out and ultimately kill Apollo? That’s a great theory; I’ve watched this movie so many times in my life but never considered that.
Just speculation, but yeah as someone who has PTSD (I was never in the military but was abused by a previous girlfriend), I recognized some of those same stares
Weird theory but that's counter to what's in the novelization of Rocky 4. I'll have to go back and reread it but I think they told Drago to throw massive shots to Creeds head, in hoping to cause as much damage as possible. I'll have to go back and double check but I think I recall a sentence about that
@@BenfbdnhdsjjfhehdNot everyone is as 'strong' as you. Also, the person who says women can't abuse men is the same person who says women can't rape men.
Rocky’s win over drago was a true Pyrrhic victory. Dragos overpowered punches gave Rocky brain damage effectively ending his career and had he not taken the fight he wouldn’t have lost his fortune.
He might have still lost it since his evil and clever and corrupt accountant screwed him out of it (there needs to be way more legal safeguards against that happening but that is another conversation) but remember how he wanted to have a few more fights to get rich again? A pro heavyweight can make a few million dollars for each fight but the doctors told him that he could not fight anymore. Had he not gotten so badly hurt by Ivan he could have had a few more fights and he probably would have won.
@@leerogish7223 If I was his crooked accountant no way in hell would I ruin the life of someone who had just um.... BEATEN UP IVAN DRAGO. If someone just beat up IVAN DRAGO there is no way in hell I would dare piss that person off. I would be too afraid of him having nothing left to lose and tracking me down and beating me to death (or so badly that I would need nursing home care for the rest of my life like the guy in Shawshank Redemption who kept bullying Tim Robbins.....)
@@Zurround Know how many pro fighters there are in the world? And that hardly any make it to the top? 1% that's it. It comes from not only good technique fighting and winning, but also popularity reputation and image as well as good promoters, good contracts, good managers, and good accountants. Good trainers and good cut men too. Those million dollar fights are those rarities that most never even see. Its a VERY corrupt bias and competitive sport. The only good guys are the ones at your corner that you Can ACTUALLY trust. A purse is the total profit that is not only through how many tickets are sold and how popular and hyped a fight is, but it's the prize money too, and on to of that is negotiated upon before a fight. The winner getting like 60% and the lost getting 40%. And this numbers change before a final decision, or by a cancellation altogether because both parties can't agree. So it's basically a pot profit. Then there's traveling expenses, taxes, gyms, hotels, food, medical supplies and insurance, fees for the dressing rooms or lockers, paying the corner men and accountants and yes lawyers too.. they're a lot of expense. And seeing as they only fight few times a year money can become tight if you're in the lower level ranks. It's a business. Then There's the vampire's liars con men leaches and really shady ppl that you have to avoid, dangerous fighters that'll hurt you personally or in the ring or slander you because of some reason or another. The mafia was drenched in that business in the 40s and before as well. Marciano had to deal with them and they were ruthless criminals. So you needed to be on top of your game, business, financially, physically, mentally, and emotionally wise, because you couldn't do this job forever. Then dealing with physicals, mental examinations when needed, diet, weighing, training which you pay for, exercise, licensing and fees, paperwork, contracts, rules, insurance, legalities, regulations, and dealing with the commission itself.. it's a lot to go through and think about. It's really a lifestyle and a career, the sport side and actually fighting is a small deal compared to the rest. Then There's hospital fees if needed. Boxers are checked out after a fight if it was a little intense or prolonged. There's also violations and fees for safety or contract breaking or of rules too. They're a lot stricter than they used to be in the past. So making it to the world stage or even top contender is a lot of work dealings and waiting.
I always felt the right ending for Rocky IV is that Ivan wins by decision (we are in Soviet Russia after all) and the people in the crowd start chanting "Rocky Rocky". Ivan goes nuts screaming at the crowd, and in that moment Rocky makes his big speech.
He's a product of culture, not inherently bad. By Creed II he'd lost absolutely everything, so he pushed his son so hard to try and get back in. Of course by the end, Ivan realises his son is worth than his status. That shows he isn't some Soviet era killing machine and really just wanted acceptance. He had to win during IV, by whatever means necessary. The Communist party demanded it. Funny thing is, he almost did break Sylvester Stallone during filming. Carl Weathers and him really didn't like each other and got into it during filming.
Yeah, they both ended up going to the hospital since both Sylvester Stallone and Dolph Lundgren had several broken ribs, and many other injuries during filing since they punched each other for real to make it look real and make for a better, more entertaining fight scene for ROCKY IV
@@juliocarinonavarrete119What is your source of information please🙏, that both sly & Dolph were admitted to hospital? Sly wanted to go for real, and only as per his instruction, Lundgren hit him with full force which ultimately, let Stallone get admitted in ICU with chest pain. But "Lundgren too, had to admit in the hospital due to the fight shootings of Rocky IV" - just from where have you got such a cooked-up, as well as, funny story?
I think that power is actually somewhat realistic. During shooting Sylvester Stallone told Dolph Lundgren to hit him in the body, which he did. It sent Sly across the ring and sent him to the hospital with a swollen heart, the damage being comparable to a car wreck.
When he said to Rocky "I must break you" it sounded like "Sorry, I do not want to break you, but I must, I have no choice", as if he was threatened by his country to do that or else he will end up in gulag for the rest of his life
more to that, since kruschev decomissioned all the gulags after stalin's death, in the time he lost the match, they didn't send him to a gulag. they just ruined his life in a different manner. and it's somewhat of a historical accuracy in screenwriting.
That was always the line that stood out to me. it wasn't, "I will break you." it wasn't "I want to break you." It was, "I MUST break you." That always felt like it was him acknowledging he is nothing more than a ool of his state. a thing to be used by all around him. its a bit tragic.
It also implies he has just NOTHING but respect for Rocky for coming out here and challenging him. Him saying "Soon I defeat Real Champion" also implies he still has confidence (WELL PLACED MIND YOU given that up until his bout with Rocky he had never lost a fight in his boxing career) The fact that he started losing heart after being cut was both his knowledge about his opponent and his surprise melding into his demoralized "He isn't human....He is like a piece of iron." That he uttered before the War began in EARNEST. And yes I call it a War because it was two men basically trying to fucking kill each other. Rocky vs Apollo (both times) were FIGHTS. Clubber Lang was a fight both times (first one Rocky wasn't as ready for while the second was when he was prepared).
@@StryfetheWarrior you might as well at this point 😂 she’s an interesting character on her own seeing that she does care more about the glory and success over family. That’s sad
@@StryfetheWarrior I even go as far to think this was an arranged marriage, Ludmilla was a KGB agent who's assignment was to monitor Ivan even in private. Her interactions with Koloff are very telling in that regard. The scene where they share a cigarette probably gives away, that there is more between them than meets the eye. Both were operatives of the Soviet system and probably knew each other from her training days before. Perhaps Ivan even knew or suspected as he was more intelligent than he let on.
Another possibility is than Ivan's father, also a career military officer treated Ivan as a member of a unit, not as his son. The validation of the crowd was a substitute for the love that he longed for from his father.
The Ref's in Apollo and Drago's exhibition bout were the true villains. There is no way they wouldn't have stopped the match at least by early round 2. Apollo was basically out on his feet. Plus, it was just an exhibition. It shouldn't have only been down to Apollo's corner. I know it's just a movie but jeez....lol.
There was a brief moment during the Apollo Creed fight where Ivan showed humanity and concern for Creed. He looks over at Rocky and slightly shakes his head like saying “don’t let this fight continue or it’s going to end very badly”
I think it’s a shame that Drago and Clubber never made any appearances in any of the other Rocky movies. Mr t was asked to appear in Creed as a boxing commentator but couldn’t agree on how much he would get paid. So he was scratched in favor of Max Kellerman. In the movie a mistake was left in as he wrongly referred to Viktor as Ivan during the fight.
I've always seen Ivan as someone who loves the sport. He went overly hard against Apollo because Apollo danced and put up a show, treating Ivan like a joke. Meanwhile, fighting Rocky, who is the only guy who took him to Round 15, he realized he liked fighting for himself, tossed that guy for trying to make it all about USSR, and respected Rocky. He went from smashing gloves in Round 1 "I must break you." to a gentle sportsman glove touch in Round 15 "To the end."
Good take. Creed was already being disrespectful during the press conference and doubled down on it before the fight. His complete lack of good sportsmanship annoyed me in that movie.
The fact that he didn't really have any character development in Rocky 4 is what makes his appearance in Creed 2 so strong. In Rocky 4, he really wasn't a character. He was a tool of the evil empire and literally nothing more. We never saw his hopes and dreams because it didn't matter. All the mattered is that the Soviets juiced him up and worked him night and day, just to beat the Americans for the propaganda value. It's only in Creed that we see what it cost him. That his entire life pretty much hung in the balance of that fight.
On the topic of BODY BLOWS I think Ivan's "Achiles Heel" is that his best stomach musculature is in FRONT and when he goads Rocky into hitting his stomach it has little effect because Rocky is hitting him IN FRONT.I think Rocky's more "natural" training built the STABILIZER muscles better than Drago's high tech training and as a result Ivan's OBLIQUE ab muscles on the SIDE were not as well developed as the ones in the front. I am sure they were great by conventional standards compared to any regular person but he did NOT have the same level of invincibility on the sides where his kidneys are as on the front because in the later rounds Rocky is shown hitting him in the side. Also, I think the reason the stomach punches did not hurt Ivan much early on was because he was FLEXING the muscles to make them even harder every time Rocky hit him there and I think he tired out some by the later rounds and was not able to flex them anymore.
Ivan Drago was very similar to Brian Shute in Vision Quest. Hard working, quiet, both were " villains", but only really from the perspective of the stories main character.
Sly said in the Rocky IV directors cut documentary that Max Schmeling and his two fights with Joe Louis were the inspiration for Drago and Rocky IV's political themes.
he wasnt a bad guy boxing is a dangerous sport a professional like apollo should of known the risks he didnt take the fight as seriously as drago did and died which is apollos fault not dragos fault i think what made rocky hate him and what made him seem like a bad guy was the taunt if he dies he dies.
Yeah he was a bad guy actually, he went into that exhibition bout with Apollo clearly intent on trying to kill the guy with every punch. The way he was continuing to pummel him after the bell of the first round and over the referee trying to break it up, was clear evidence he wasn't there to box an exhibition bout, he hated Apollo and wanted to destroy him. The scene of him knocking over Apollo's exhibition stand after the press conference beforehand and the tone of the music, was there to indicate he intended something sinister. When he faced Rocky, it was a totally different attitude and more of a technical boxing match, he wasn't going out there throwing haymakers at Balboa like he wanted to kill him. So nice try, but Drago knew exactly what he intended to do with Apollo. I think his gloves may even have been loaded too, the fight was unsanctioned.
@@evildeed90s Apollo was out to humble and humiliate Drago by outboxing him and his camp and Drago knew this full well. During the fight, Drago knew he could never outbox Apollo, it was quite apparent early on. Again, there's a difference between being in survival mode and pushing the referee out of the way to pummel someone against the ropes and continuing to do so when the bell has already gone for the end of a round. The guy intended to kill Apollo, especially the last blow he delivered, he knew exactly what was going to happen in the way he walked away after the blow and the look on his face, hence "If he dies, he dies". I'm not having this we should feel sorry for Drago and he didn't mean it rubbish, the film clearly intended for him to be a villain, trying to spin it now because of some debatably interpreted deleted scenes doesn't do anything to change that.
@@Longlostpuss Another reason Rocky probably wanted revenge was Ivan showing no remorse, just glaring at the corpse in hatred and saying "if he dies he dies" and bragging that he could beat any man. Had he shown remorse Rocky would have been less likely to want revenge.
@@Longlostpuss Thank you. Finally someone with some common sense. Drago is clearly a bad guy in Rocky 4. I don't know what's up with this need to humanize him and make Drago a victim. He clearly went into that fight knowing that 1) it was an exhibition match, not a serious fight, but despite that, 2) he went in with the full intention to kill Apollo, and 3) with the smiles on Ludmilla's and the other guy's (whose name I can't remember now) faces as Apollo went down, it seems they knew Drago's intention as well. Does Apollo bear some responsibility for getting into a fight 5 years after retirement against a younger stronger opponent? Absolutely. But pushing the referee out of the way and launching a full-powered left hook against the head of a man who's obviously out on his feet is a clear indication of what Drago intended.
@@Longlostpuss Yea I agree he was a bad guy but I don't know if his intentions were to kill Apollo or not or if when it seemed that Apollo may have been near death if he didn't just speak the words "if he dies he dies" out of shear bone headedness.But I do know he didn't fight Apollo that way because he hated him,Apollo was simply a means to an end which can be seen in Drago's words after the fight when he said :"now I want to fight real champion!" Drago was simply doing whatever it took to make sure he got rocky into that ring which were the soviets real intentions to begin with.Even if that meant hurting Apollo Creed bad enough to nearly killing him to do so ,that's why Rocky and Drago shared the stare when Apollo was down Drago was letting him know who he was sending that very violent message to.
Alternate movie idea: Rocky forgives Lang, becoming friends...Lang opens his own gym in Chicago and also becomes a minister for troubled youth. He challenges Ivan, both Rocky and Apollo tell Lang not to fight, that he has nothing to prove. Lang convinces Rocky to be in his corner...Lang, like Creed in the original timeline is killied. Rocky goes with Tony and Paulie to Russia... Apollo surprises Rocky and brings Adrian. Now with everyone including Apollo giving him a strategy to beat Drago...trains like never before. Off screen, Apollo discovers Adonis is his son and convinces his wife to raise Adonis together.
this movie is Iconic. TILL THIS DAY, THIS IS MY FAVORITE MOVIE OF ALL TIME. When i use to train before my fights, the soundtrack to this movie is all i would listen to. well done. You did great breaking it down.
I have all of the Rocky Saga Grew up on Rocky And Karate Kid Just subbed This channel is awesome Keep it going strong No Mercy and I Didn't Hear No Bell Go For It
@ Danny In Oak Park: Same here and enjoy The Karate Kid movies more than I did when I was younger, partly due to Cobra Kai tv series being as great as it is currently.
BTW, yall know "You're The Best Around" from The Karate Kid movie was originally meant to be in Rocky 4 but I think the filmmakers went with Burning Heart instead . Mostly due to the first song I mentioned sounded more fitting for the Karate Kid. I forget where I read it from. Same thing with Smallville's main theme was intended for Raimi's Spider-Man film soundtrack but they went with Hero song instead.
Truly broken and tragic character. He was built and designed for benefit of USSR but deep inside he was a human. He didn't want to win only for his country but for himself too. And then he was thrown away by everyone, his country, even his wife Ludmilla. He was left alone, broken, with driving will to survive and his son Victor to take care of. He was rough with his son but only because it was the only way he knew and he taught him the everything he knew, fighting. He was taunting Adonis saying you're smaller than your father was and even ensuring his son to play dirty. But in the end when everyone left Victor, including his own mom Ludmilla (again, damn), Ivan was still by his side because he deeply cared about him. He threw the towel and said to his son it's okay despite the fact he lost. Now that's what I call character development. Even though he brutally murdered Apollo Creed in the end for me he's sympathetic
Good video it's a shame I missed it. BTW although you are not talking about the Kickboxer franchise, Tong-Po was even more of a villain than Ivan Drago. And even Chong-Li for that manner from Bloodsport. Next I think you should do Tommy Gun. Although arrogant Tommy is a talented fighter who is worth a video in my eyes.
Similar? O.o Rocky's wife died. Sad, but someday that happens to anyone of us. He allways knew she loved him and he can still talk to her at the graveyard at least. Maybe having a smile thinking about her from time to time. Ivan's wife left him and his son after the one lost fight showing him that there were never any feeling. He was his status and now he is nothing. Even his son suffers from him being unable to keep his marriage. Rocky not only has his restaurant in terms of financial security. He has a place where people love to hear his stories of the good old days, while nobody cares about Ivan and his own people cheered for Rocky more than they ever did for him. You can't get much more different in terms of life quality.
Ivan saying Adonis was small was just a cruel observation. He didnt think much of Apollo. He noticed Adonis was smaller(2 inches shorter and 25 pounds lighter) and said something in his own bitterness Also Ivan never fought for his country,he wanted glory from them but he didnt care for them. He wasnt a fool,he knew the guys in the suits were pieces of trash. As for Apollo he killed him due to roid rage. There was a line cut from Creed 2 where he said he didnt want to kill Apollo
I just wanna point out that it was revealed later on in a deleted scene in Rocky Balboa that the diagnosis of Brain Damage from the doctors was a misdiagnosis
If Drago had the same credentials as Lungren has in real life, people would say they went too far with the Drago character and it’s unbelievable. Dolph is an amazing individual
Imagine a timeline where Clubber Lang beats Rocky during Balboa vs Lang II, then Drago fights Lang for the heavyweight title. Who would win between Lang and Drago?
Drago would destroy him because he’s as strong & has the stamina! Look at it like this: the Rocky in Rocky III couldn’t have beat Drago & he beat Lang in 3 rounds if I remember correctly?
@@acason4 Drago's GENETICS and SIZE are so beyond Lang's that even if he had not been given steroids he would have won easily. And what is more Lang was close to Mike Tyson in capability meaning if Ivan Drago was real he would destroy even a PRIME Mike Tyson. He was THAT POWERFUL.
Everyone here is talking about Drago's character and how his loss against Rocky changed him. Meanwhile I'm just wondering if it's possible to have the punching force Drago had. Seriously over 2000 psi is insane and I wonder how close someone can actually get to that strength. Film theory needs to make a video on this
Most likely a plot hidden allusion to soviet propaganda. If Drago really had that much punching power, Rocky would die. It was most likely planted and rigged in the demonstration machines.
Honestly though you couldn’t help but root for victor when he was on the ground saw his mom leave him BUT STILL got back up. He had the same spirit and rocky and Adonis
Before that fight Rocky lost his best friend and gave up rights to his title as the boxing commission viewed it. As this video points out this fight broke things in Rocky that essentially would never heal taking FAR more physical damage (short-term and long-term) than Drago, he was forced to retire following a fight he resented so much he doesn't even wish to remember it amidst his colleague of memorials years later. Rocky gave up Christmas with his son (some could "head-canon" a couple years if looking at Robert's age-advance as a sign of time passage for his recovery), the choice to go to Russia stripped away all the finances he worked so hard to build. Rocky lost just as much as Goku lost his early DBZ fights with Raditz, Vegeta, and Freeza.
In a way I feel sorry for him. Not pity but actual sympathy. I actually feel for him. This kind of thing makes realize there's really two sides to everyone. Rocky was right to leave what happened in the past. Changing ones circumstances is not always possible. I mean I'm glad he lost but at same time I have a symbiosis relationship with that. I think he acted superior because really that was just the vibe at the time.and current state of things. Also I think culture had lot to do with it as well. And sometimes enough is enough. Pain/suffering been done now. We must do our best to forgive. I suppose he also wanted to prove himself and because lot of things he didn't experience growing up. Perhaps.
I'd love to see you break down some of the heroic characters in this franchise as well such as Apollo or even Rocky! There's a serious gap in the market on RUclips when it comes to Rocky character breakdowns!
I recently bought the two pack of Creed films and I gotta say they're both really good movies. I love how they made Creed 2 work by giving both sides a reason to fight while not making either side the overt villain. If we never get a Creed 3 I can live with that knowing the previous two movies were done so well.
Stallone noted that for Rocky V...Rocky never got a second opinion on his injuries...if he did...the trajectory of the films would have been changed dramatically.
Drago reminds me loosely of Brock Lesnar, though obviously Drago came first. Brock simply beat his opponents in MMA by being bigger and stronger and overpowering them. When Brock first came up, he barely talked, much like Drago. He let his actions speak for themselves.
I saw him as a tragic character since even without the directors cut he was still being used as a political flexing tool . He was used his entire life and became a pet with no personal agency. When his humanity was let off he couldn't even process the feeling, because he was never allowed to be himself. And speaking about Johnny, he was always a complex character. If you put yourself in Johnnys shoes you see Larusso acting the way he did and i would be pissed too. I mean he didn't handle things in a mature way, but neither him or larusso were mature, on age or personal level. I like Cobra Kai gave him more depth, but his role in the first movie was always as a good student of a bad teacher.
I know many won't agree, I know how badly hurt Drago was but I always felt he gave up and almost lost on purpose. The big turning point was when they started talking to him like a dog and he saw their looks of contempt. At that point he didn't seem to have any will left to carry on. He might very well have dropped out of spite, as he clearly saw even his "wife" had no love for him. When the people were behind him, he had pride and surely felt loved by the people, when everyone turned against him then you could see a hopeless look in his eyes. Why should he be punished and suffer so much when they treat him as an animal and he's nothing more than property? The only time he was in charge of his life was when he was in the ring. They only time he had respect and love was when he was winning.
Even though Rocky obtained scars after his fight with Ivan he still survived and seeing how Rocky could take Ivan's punches why that's superhuman seeing how Ivan literally hits like a bullet. And seeing how Rocky can not only take those hits but also take him down.
Ivan Drago is a favourite of my father. My Father used to live in the USSR and was a boxer and wrestler and when I was born, he made sure the first few films I watched were from the Rocky Series. Drago was a character that displayed barely any emotion and was like a machine, my Father taught me that it was the reason he lost. Since machines can always be broken.
I do like the Ivan Drago character, however during his fight with Apollo Creed, the ref steps in, and stops the fight.. Ivan pushes the ref aside and continues to pummel Apollo leading to his death...every Punch thrown after the ref stoppage is assault, as the match had been declared officially over... Drago should have been arrested.
Yeah, very despicable for him to keep punching both rounds, and not to mention I think the only thing that could've saved Apollo is Rocky jumping in there himself. Him throwing the towel might not have really done anything considering the fact that he threw the ref aside
Rocky 4, definitely my favorite out of the franchise! Like you said, so many things from Rocky 4 carried all the way into Creed 2; connecting it all years later gave Creed 2 that serious it factor throughout the whole movie. 😁
I got to say this was a phenomenal video analysis. I can see exactly the pin point perfect accuracy. Thank you this is a video I didn’t know I need it. But I’m thankful to have it.
No one talks about the job of the referee, which is to protect a fighter from possibly getting killed. Unfortunately, Rocky movie referees seem to have never heard of technical knock outs, or TKO’s. The ref had the onus to step between Ivan and Apollo to stop the fight, and he refused to do so.
Hot take: Drago was the underdog in this fight. He was monstrously strong and built, but he was an elevated rookie going straight for a fight against one of the most legendary champions in the history of boxing. The fact that he did as well as he did should be a feather in his cap and definitely shouldn't count against him (let alone get him banished)
In the video, Ivan kept being called a villain, but what really made Ivan a villain? He is boxer, he wanted a shot at Rocky. Was Appollo a villain? Was Clubber Lang a villain? Was Tommy Gunn a villain?
It wasn't before Rocky could throw the towel in in Rocky IV, you can clearly see he held on to the towel and intentionally not through it. Not to say that Rocky didn't want to, he just kept his promise to Apollo.
What I loved about the Rocky vs Drago fight was how Rocky was taunting and toying with Drago in the final round, exactly like Drago taunted and toyed with Apollo during their fight. It was a perfect mirror image of quid pro quo, and it settled the matter once and for all.
The first time my cousin and I watched this we forgot it was a movie, and went for Apollo because he was on Rocky's side; it was one thing to see Apollo lose the match, but it was devastating to see him die. Then with the way everyone spoke about it at school, we genuinely believed that Drago had killed Apollo for real.
Something that Apollo never understood in his not wanting to be remembered as a has-been mindset is that everyone who is ever someone will eventually become a has-been. He just hadn't accepted that everything fades.
fun fact for Rocky 4. Actor Dolph was asked by Sylvestor to hit him for real. Dolph hit him in the chest so hard that they went to the hospital and the hospital thought he was in a car crash as his chest/heart were bruised in such a way that similar injuries are almost always seen in car accidents. So, Dolph actually hits like a truck.
So much little details I didn't notice that u pointed out, I still can't believe they deleted that scene from creed 2, it did SOO much for both drago's as well as rocky and creed
Ivan Drago / Dolph Lundgren made Rocky IV. His scenes are the only ones I re-watch, as the rest of the film feels too much like a "cartoony" departure from the gritty relatable story of the first two films (and to a lesser degree the third)...and okay, I do watch the montages, because who doesn't like an epic montage with 80s music? 😄 The cultural dichotomy is interesting. Drago loses one fight and is a social pariah in Russia for the rest of his life. Rocky lost plenty of fights, yet was never publicly disgraced. One thing I liked about the series is they weren't afraid to let Rocky lose, even after the first film. Heck, if you look at the major fights featured, he was 3-3! He went 1-1 against Apollo, 1-1 against Clubber, he beat Drago (who probably would have wrecked him in a rematch as Drago recovered physically and Rocky never did), and then lost to Dixon. Also, they really should have left in the locker room scene at the end of Creed 2. It helped further humanise the Dragos. Plus it was impactful that Adonis was able to let the grudge go, while Rocky and Ivan were finally able to bury the proverbial hatchet after more than thirty years.
He is very much one based on creed 2 He was manipulated by his wife and country to be used for propaganda. Dragon believed he had it all and lost it all. Despite all he did for them, they threw him away. The line I must Break you seems almost like he doesn’t WANT to do this but he has no choice to do it. The scene in where they meet again says a lot. At the end Drago wants his son more then his country. The deleted scene where Adonis and Victor should’ve stayed. I almost feel that Viktor and Adonis could have a relationship like Apollo and Rocky had
Been hoping to find videos like this on the Rocky franchise for ages. Thought I was the only one that put this much thought into it. I want a video on why Rocky is an expert on bricks 'my husband is an expert on bricks' was she joking? Or serious? Not like Adrian to be cracking sarcastic jokes to strangers. Want a video on Paulies past... 'I never got married cos of you' he shouted that at Adrian... think he had a relationship that fell apart? This stuff keeps me up at night lol
It was Lundgren's idea of how his character should talk; he explained this in an interview on another RUclips video; this was just before the theatre release of Creed II.
I feel sad for him spent most of his life as a vessel of anger and hatred only to pass it on to his son at least he made peace ✌ with everyone and himself
Which one of Rocky's opponent should I talk about next?
Btw, having to use a new editing style via stills and gaming footage to stay within fair use, so bare with me!
Tommy Gunn
Clubber Lang
Viktor Drago or Apollo Creed.
Mason Dixon
Apollo Creed as he had a great character arc in the Rocky Franchise
Another moment in Creed 2 is that when Rocky sees Ivan the first thing Ivan does is say "nice pictures" before noting, with an almost sad tone, that there's no pictures of him.
Still wanting that recognition
@@StryfetheWarrior the likely problem is that it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, it would soften Ivan's view on Rocky making him feel he was a part of this person's history. On the downside, it wouldn't be good for his restaurant since that would constantly remind people that "this is the man that killed Apollo Creed".
I have a third hypothesis and that would be that Rocky fought Ivan in Soviet Russia. I don't think Soviet Russia at the time would let those pictures see the light of day.
It wasn't a fight for glory it was a revenge fight so he left it in the past where it Belongs ..it showed he moved on
Drago was a loyal soldier of the Soviet Union. He not only lost the fight, his wife, his family, his glory, he also lost his entire country and way of life when the USSR collapsed. He lost everything inside and outside the ring. Losing everything after never losing anything in his life would have been unbearable. Not seeing his picture on Rocky's wall of fame would have felt like a denial of acknowledging his existence.
"No Pictures Of Me?
It's important to remember that Rocky Vs Drago was fought in Russia, at the height of the Cold War. The biggest weapon that was used in this conflict was propaganda. Therefore, the reason why there are no pictures of Rocky Vs Drago available is because Drago lost.
I’m glad they humanized Drago in Creed 2 because you can tell he went through a lot of different changes after he lost to Rocky. He lost his home, his wife and his country. Drago learned by the end that he didn’t want his son to end up like him. Ivan Drago didn’t realize how much of a bad guy he was or how he was manipulated by the Soviet Union until all those other things happened. In the end he chose to be the father that his son needed instead of being loved and adored as a hero by his country.
100%
And that’s a huge reason I love Drago so much
@@StryfetheWarrior it was clear his wife and his country used Drago. playing mind games with him to get him to do what they wanted,by the time he grabed the offical guy for insulting him during the fight you can tell Drago had enough of everything and in the end he wanted to win the match for himself not everyone else. he lost and his wife and country abandoned him....proving they didn't care about him.
True, but it was bullshit he blaimed Rocky for all the sad things in his life.
Rocky won that fight fair and with honor, he didn't push the ref away when he beat Drago to the ground!
@@enigma-wv7oc I think on some level he RESPECTED Rocky. In Rocky 4 he nodded YES with his head towards Rocky when Rocky was making his victory speech. He easily could have beaten Rocky up or trashed his restaurant but he did not. I posted above that if they make a Creed 3 or the Viktor Drago spinoff that Ivan should be shown feeling remorse for killing Apollo and do something to help the Creed and Balboa families as a gesture of amends.
I think the saddest part about Ivan's character isn't the fact that his wife, home and country abandoned him because he lost. It's the fact that he believed he deserved it.
"She left you!
They all did!
Abandoned you!
Shamed You!"
"I lost!"
A much lighter movie explained this tragic trait very well:
"I had to win, and when you base your whole life on winning, you have to keep winning." Irv Blitzer, _Cool Runnings_
Sadly, Ivan only saw himself as a champion, and didn't know how to deal with not being one anymore.
@@deanjustdean7818 Actually, the quote was from Vince Lombardi in the 1960s, but too many definitely took on that idea.
@@deanjustdean7818 better than the mindset of today, giving out rewards thats not even deserved nor earned. What kind of mentality will this cause??? I think we're seeing it. Competition is a manly trait. As are Honour Courage Bravery Integrity Discipline Values that are good heathy and stood upon as well as Principle Toughness Independence Leadership Decision-making Protecting Providing Humility and Strength. These aren't really taught anymore.
@@deanjustdean7818 that don't mean being a slave or a sheep. To have others back sure, but not to be a fool
He did deserve it. He was a proud evil man in Rocky 4. He didnt have to kill a man to prove his point but he did. All that should have happened after he killed Apollo in the first place. Especially after that "if he dies he dies" line on public tv.
Drago meeting Rocky for the first time in 30 years in the restaurant was the greatest acting scene in Dolph Lundgren's career.
When I saw Creed II in the theater that scene gave me chills
It was awesome
Dolph (and Florian Munteanu) really did a great job with just expressions.
@@GerardoSantana I took a class on communication in college and learned that we communicate way more with just our body language than with actual words.
" nice pictures"
It was kind of weird seeing these to meet in that restaurant , if Sly and Dolph haven't made the Expendables movies together ...the impact have been a lot bigger ..
You can say that the idea for Ivan Drago's character traits came from Sly being impressed with Dolph's look and physique when he auditioned. Originally Sly wanted a hairy 'caveman' like opponent but after looking at Dolph, he decided to go in the opposite direction by having Drago be a fighter that's supposed to be 'the future'.
Oh yeah, he said he was impressed, he was like - “look at him, he’s like 6 foot 6, great shape, great height, good looks, plus he’s got a degree in Chemistry? 🧪 ⚛️ like C’mon” and then he had be part of the cast for ROCKY IV ‘cause at the time, Dolph Lundgren was a doorman, and Sylvester Stallone was like “what? Why?” He’s got all this potential and he was a doorman? And so ROCKY IV happened - best movie ever 🤩🤩🙌🏻🙌🏻😎👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😌😌😌
@@juliocarinonavarrete119 Always have to laugh when thinking about Dolph Lundgren having a more solid claim to being Scientest than TV "Scientests" like Bill Nye^^
I think Drago's robotic persona could have also been inspired by the Terminator, which came out a couple of years prior. Also, I suspect Drago really loathed Nikolai Koloff for ordering him to punish Apollo. Before the match, NIkolai speaks to Drago in Russian and smacks his fists together, implying "end him". You can see the subtle contempt on Drago's face as he turns and looks at his boss as if to say "You're really a POS".
I had wanted to talk about that in the video and wondered what he was actually saying, but couldn't find a proper translation in time
Nah "If he dies,he dies" he knew what he was doing,he taunted Creed,fuck him
Or George Foreman
Oh for sure. This was also during the Stallone and Schwarzenegger feud. I'm sure Drago was partially inspired by Arnold as well.
Terminator came out a year before rocky 4
I didn't realize this till I watched Rocky 4 with subs on. During the fight with Drago when Apollo is getting pummeled, right before he is killed, Apollo yells "NO!" everytime Tony says throw in the towel and right before Rocky throws the towel he yells one last time before being killed. Really made the death that much more powerful, because it really show Apollo's desire.
Yea, you could tell Rocky was about to throw the towel as both Duke yelling at him to do so as Apollo was saying No!! At the sametime having Rocky hesitate in heat of the moment.
Apollo knew he was going to die and would rather die in this situation rather than be a regular old man. Basically he would raher die than get old or irrelevant. He had some demons.
Yeah, that 'NO!" is very quick and kinda stifled if I remember correctly
@@StryfetheWarrior the directors cut of R4 fixes a lot of the dialogue issues by dropping Vince Dicolas score throughout the entire movie
My favorite part of the entire Drago character is how understated he is. On the surface he's just a big emotionless brute but there's a lot of depth they don't specifically tell you. When you look deeper you just find a man who just wants to prove himself and make his country proud. His comforting and recognition of his son is such a beautiful example of breaking the parenting cycle and character growth. Giving Victor the support he never got and assuring him it's okay is such a hard thing to do when it's completely foreign to you.
Agreed
My heart actually broke for Drago . Rocky is a national hero past retirement drago lost everything. Wife left him , sent to the slums to starve with his son , spit on a laughed at . Than his ex leaves a 2nd time when his son isn’t winning that shit is cold 😢
I agree. I felt bad for him.he deserves a win.
They definitely both lost. Drago basically caused ptsd and brain damage for rocky. Drago lost the backing of his country.
Very sad :(
Also if Rocky didn’t fight drago he never would have lost his money.
@@leerogish7223 exactly
They are basically the "itchy and scratchy" (from the Simpsons) of the boxing world.
It's more complicated than that. Without boxing rules, Rocky would've been mauled to death by all of his opponents. That's the whole point of Rocky 5. An aging Rocky defeated Tommy in a real street fight. Title belts mean nothing after that. It should've been the end of the series.
I’ve never looked at Drago this way until i saw Creed 2 and this video. Now i know that there’s no one actually won the match between Balboa and Drago. Balboa basically has lost literally everything after the fight, his money, his house, and most importantly, his consciousness due to brain damage. Drago lost everything and even his nationality as a Russian. That’s tragic for both of them
Very sad. I do love the nod of respect in the deleted scene, it's a shame they cut it out
Remember Rocky's speech where he said that 2 people fighting in the ring is better than hundreds of millions fighting? I think he was implying WAR between USA AND RUSSIA and back then (and now actually) many people were afraid of the possibility of NUCLEAR WAR which is MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION. People were talking about how nobody really "wins" a nuclear war because even if you "win" technically based on how its defined in war the losses are so great that you cannot really ENJOY the victory.
We kind of saw a MICROCOSM of M.A.D. because even though Rocky technically won they BOTH suffered such huge losses in life that it was basically M.A.D.
It's argued that that fight changed their lives forever. For the worse, but eventually they made peace. They both lost alot after the fight. Like I said the fight changed their lives.
His sentence:" I must break you!" In rocky 4 was already a good hint in my mind. He does not even enjoy it. He has to break him bc he is expected to do it. Not bc he wants it.
100%
Yeah the MUST is the operative here. Not I WILL break you but I MUST break you. Orders are not a choice. But by the end, Drago respects Rocky, as shown by the "to the end" and respectful glove touch they had. Drago never hated Rocky, he hated the state for what they were making him do.
I didn't hear until recently that Viktor Drago is supposed to return in Creed III. If it happens, I hope he lives through the film. I sincerely hope we do see both Viktor and Ivan onscreen again. I loved the entirety of Creed II's story, but for me it was the relationship and story of Viktor and Ivan that made the film as good as it was.
Agreed
Everyone involved in the filming of "Creed 3" are majorly taking their sweet time with it. I saw Creed 2 about 4 years ago. We also were supposed to get a SPINOFF MOVIE where Viktor Drago is the protagonist and still being trained by his father. The actors for those 2 characters were on a talk show together a few years back right after they filmed Creed 2 discussing their spinoff movie.
@@Zurround wow! I was just saying to myself wouldn't it be nice if they did a Drago movie since Adonis and Viktor were basically neck to neck in ability(like Rocky and Apollo Creed) the last time they fought...they definitely need to make that film happen 😃
@@spaceman-spiff6386 If there was a way to send Viktor back in time to fight a same aged version of Ivan my opinion is that Ivan would totally win (but Viktor is still tougher than Apollo so no death but still beaten up). Viktor was NOT equal to what his father had been.
Viktor and Adonis have already fought twice so if Viktor appears again, many believe he will fight Clubber's son in a #1 contender match. Obviously since the movies have Creed in the title, Adonis will be in the main fight. To be honest, Adonis to me isn't nearly as likable as a main character as Rocky or even as Apollo was. He seems too abrasive to be likable. I actually found myself partially rooting for Viktor in their final fight. I know he's supposed to lose but to me it just doesn't seem believable that Adonis could beat him.
In some way, Drago reminds me of John Walker/US Agent in Falcon and Winter Soldier. Both are what their country wants them to be and because of all the pressure, it slowly was turning them into complete monsters.
While you don't justify for what both end up doing, they're both in a way victims of the system.
Perfectly put
@@StryfetheWarrior one thing that mostly the media doesn't do enough is how great of a director and story teller/screen writer and emotional range actor Sylvester Stallone is ..
You see it throughout the Rocky franchise
His acting when he begs Tommy not to go and when he opens up about Apollo to his son was brilliant
Your comparing that shit show to such a good movie as creed 💀💀
16:55 So, Drago could have saw some shit while fighting in Afghanistan for the ussr and developed ptsd which was triggered by the loud noises and lights of Apollo’s entrance - which caused him to lash out and ultimately kill Apollo? That’s a great theory; I’ve watched this movie so many times in my life but never considered that.
Just speculation, but yeah as someone who has PTSD (I was never in the military but was abused by a previous girlfriend), I recognized some of those same stares
Weird theory but that's counter to what's in the novelization of Rocky 4. I'll have to go back and reread it but I think they told Drago to throw massive shots to Creeds head, in hoping to cause as much damage as possible. I'll have to go back and double check but I think I recall a sentence about that
So apparently this was Drago's real reaction because they didn't tell him that Apollo was going to come out with this entrance
@@StryfetheWarrior bro got abused by a girl💀💀
@@BenfbdnhdsjjfhehdNot everyone is as 'strong' as you. Also, the person who says women can't abuse men is the same person who says women can't rape men.
I like that Ivan and Rocky finished on good terms, and that Viktor and Adonis are now friends.
Agreed. No one saw that coming
Rocky’s win over drago was a true Pyrrhic victory. Dragos overpowered punches gave Rocky brain damage effectively ending his career and had he not taken the fight he wouldn’t have lost his fortune.
He might have still lost it since his evil and clever and corrupt accountant screwed him out of it (there needs to be way more legal safeguards against that happening but that is another conversation) but remember how he wanted to have a few more fights to get rich again? A pro heavyweight can make a few million dollars for each fight but the doctors told him that he could not fight anymore. Had he not gotten so badly hurt by Ivan he could have had a few more fights and he probably would have won.
@@Zurround I was thinking the same trying but like you said he would have made it Back with a few more fights.
@@leerogish7223 If I was his crooked accountant no way in hell would I ruin the life of someone who had just um.... BEATEN UP IVAN DRAGO. If someone just beat up IVAN DRAGO there is no way in hell I would dare piss that person off. I would be too afraid of him having nothing left to lose and tracking me down and beating me to death (or so badly that I would need nursing home care for the rest of my life like the guy in Shawshank Redemption who kept bullying Tim Robbins.....)
@@Zurround I could see paulie Doing that but that’s not Rocky’s style. Plus he probably left town and is hiding in another country.
@@Zurround Know how many pro fighters there are in the world? And that hardly any make it to the top? 1% that's it. It comes from not only good technique fighting and winning, but also popularity reputation and image as well as good promoters, good contracts, good managers, and good accountants. Good trainers and good cut men too. Those million dollar fights are those rarities that most never even see. Its a VERY corrupt bias and competitive sport. The only good guys are the ones at your corner that you Can ACTUALLY trust. A purse is the total profit that is not only through how many tickets are sold and how popular and hyped a fight is, but it's the prize money too, and on to of that is negotiated upon before a fight. The winner getting like 60% and the lost getting 40%. And this numbers change before a final decision, or by a cancellation altogether because both parties can't agree. So it's basically a pot profit. Then there's traveling expenses, taxes, gyms, hotels, food, medical supplies and insurance, fees for the dressing rooms or lockers, paying the corner men and accountants and yes lawyers too.. they're a lot of expense. And seeing as they only fight few times a year money can become tight if you're in the lower level ranks. It's a business. Then There's the vampire's liars con men leaches and really shady ppl that you have to avoid, dangerous fighters that'll hurt you personally or in the ring or slander you because of some reason or another. The mafia was drenched in that business in the 40s and before as well. Marciano had to deal with them and they were ruthless criminals. So you needed to be on top of your game, business, financially, physically, mentally, and emotionally wise, because you couldn't do this job forever. Then dealing with physicals, mental examinations when needed, diet, weighing, training which you pay for, exercise, licensing and fees, paperwork, contracts, rules, insurance, legalities, regulations, and dealing with the commission itself.. it's a lot to go through and think about. It's really a lifestyle and a career, the sport side and actually fighting is a small deal compared to the rest. Then There's hospital fees if needed. Boxers are checked out after a fight if it was a little intense or prolonged. There's also violations and fees for safety or contract breaking or of rules too. They're a lot stricter than they used to be in the past. So making it to the world stage or even top contender is a lot of work dealings and waiting.
I always felt the right ending for Rocky IV is that Ivan wins by decision (we are in Soviet Russia after all) and the people in the crowd start chanting "Rocky Rocky". Ivan goes nuts screaming at the crowd, and in that moment Rocky makes his big speech.
It was the cold war and a American made movie. Just wasn't gonna happen
That would've been interesting
He's a product of culture, not inherently bad. By Creed II he'd lost absolutely everything, so he pushed his son so hard to try and get back in.
Of course by the end, Ivan realises his son is worth than his status.
That shows he isn't some Soviet era killing machine and really just wanted acceptance.
He had to win during IV, by whatever means necessary. The Communist party demanded it.
Funny thing is, he almost did break Sylvester Stallone during filming. Carl Weathers and him really didn't like each other and got into it during filming.
Yeah, they both ended up going to the hospital since both Sylvester Stallone and Dolph Lundgren had several broken ribs, and many other injuries during filing since they punched each other for real to make it look real and make for a better, more entertaining fight scene for ROCKY IV
I read about that; Carl almost ended up quitting
@@juliocarinonavarrete119What is your source of information please🙏, that both sly & Dolph were admitted to hospital?
Sly wanted to go for real, and only as per his instruction, Lundgren hit him with full force which ultimately, let Stallone get admitted in ICU with chest pain.
But "Lundgren too, had to admit in the hospital due to the fight shootings of Rocky IV" - just from where have you got such a cooked-up, as well as, funny story?
I think that power is actually somewhat realistic. During shooting Sylvester Stallone told Dolph Lundgren to hit him in the body, which he did. It sent Sly across the ring and sent him to the hospital with a swollen heart, the damage being comparable to a car wreck.
When he said to Rocky "I must break you" it sounded like "Sorry, I do not want to break you, but I must, I have no choice", as if he was threatened by his country to do that or else he will end up in gulag for the rest of his life
Yes, exactly!
more to that, since kruschev decomissioned all the gulags after stalin's death, in the time he lost the match, they didn't send him to a gulag. they just ruined his life in a different manner. and it's somewhat of a historical accuracy in screenwriting.
That was always the line that stood out to me. it wasn't, "I will break you." it wasn't "I want to break you." It was, "I MUST break you."
That always felt like it was him acknowledging he is nothing more than a ool of his state. a thing to be used by all around him. its a bit tragic.
It also implies he has just NOTHING but respect for Rocky for coming out here and challenging him. Him saying "Soon I defeat Real Champion" also implies he still has confidence (WELL PLACED MIND YOU given that up until his bout with Rocky he had never lost a fight in his boxing career)
The fact that he started losing heart after being cut was both his knowledge about his opponent and his surprise melding into his demoralized "He isn't human....He is like a piece of iron." That he uttered before the War began in EARNEST.
And yes I call it a War because it was two men basically trying to fucking kill each other. Rocky vs Apollo (both times) were FIGHTS. Clubber Lang was a fight both times (first one Rocky wasn't as ready for while the second was when he was prepared).
He had a wife who cares more about her country then her husband, she wasn’t even a wife to begin with. Horrible marriage. Poor Ivan and Poor Viktor.
Might even do a video just on her to be honest
@@StryfetheWarriorDo It!
@@StryfetheWarrior you might as well at this point 😂 she’s an interesting character on her own seeing that she does care more about the glory and success over family. That’s sad
@@StryfetheWarrior I even go as far to think this was an arranged marriage, Ludmilla was a KGB agent who's assignment was to monitor Ivan even in private. Her interactions with Koloff are very telling in that regard. The scene where they share a cigarette probably gives away, that there is more between them than meets the eye. Both were operatives of the Soviet system and probably knew each other from her training days before. Perhaps Ivan even knew or suspected as he was more intelligent than he let on.
@@grudgematch6653 That's just female nature
Another possibility is than Ivan's father, also a career military officer treated Ivan as a member of a unit, not as his son. The validation of the crowd was a substitute for the love that he longed for from his father.
The Ref's in Apollo and Drago's exhibition bout were the true villains. There is no way they wouldn't have stopped the match at least by early round 2. Apollo was basically out on his feet.
Plus, it was just an exhibition. It shouldn't have only been down to Apollo's corner. I know it's just a movie but jeez....lol.
There was a brief moment during the Apollo Creed fight where Ivan showed humanity and concern for Creed. He looks over at Rocky and slightly shakes his head like saying “don’t let this fight continue or it’s going to end very badly”
Yes
I don't know. I've always seen it more as a taunt than showing mercy. It's as if he was saying, "this fool doesn't stand a chance against me."
That's one way to look at it
Drago was made human in Creed 2 and it really brought his character arc full circle
I think it’s a shame that Drago and Clubber never made any appearances in any of the other Rocky movies. Mr t was asked to appear in Creed as a boxing commentator but couldn’t agree on how much he would get paid. So he was scratched in favor of Max Kellerman. In the movie a mistake was left in as he wrongly referred to Viktor as Ivan during the fight.
Agreed, Clubber should've had another appearance
I've always seen Ivan as someone who loves the sport. He went overly hard against Apollo because Apollo danced and put up a show, treating Ivan like a joke.
Meanwhile, fighting Rocky, who is the only guy who took him to Round 15, he realized he liked fighting for himself, tossed that guy for trying to make it all about USSR, and respected Rocky. He went from smashing gloves in Round 1 "I must break you." to a gentle sportsman glove touch in Round 15 "To the end."
Interesting take
Rocky beat that respect into him.
Good take. Creed was already being disrespectful during the press conference and doubled down on it before the fight. His complete lack of good sportsmanship annoyed me in that movie.
The fact that he didn't really have any character development in Rocky 4 is what makes his appearance in Creed 2 so strong. In Rocky 4, he really wasn't a character. He was a tool of the evil empire and literally nothing more. We never saw his hopes and dreams because it didn't matter. All the mattered is that the Soviets juiced him up and worked him night and day, just to beat the Americans for the propaganda value.
It's only in Creed that we see what it cost him. That his entire life pretty much hung in the balance of that fight.
On the topic of BODY BLOWS I think Ivan's "Achiles Heel" is that his best stomach musculature is in FRONT and when he goads Rocky into hitting his stomach it has little effect because Rocky is hitting him IN FRONT.I think Rocky's more "natural" training built the STABILIZER muscles better than Drago's high tech training and as a result Ivan's OBLIQUE ab muscles on the SIDE were not as well developed as the ones in the front. I am sure they were great by conventional standards compared to any regular person but he did NOT have the same level of invincibility on the sides where his kidneys are as on the front because in the later rounds Rocky is shown hitting him in the side.
Also, I think the reason the stomach punches did not hurt Ivan much early on was because he was FLEXING the muscles to make them even harder every time Rocky hit him there and I think he tired out some by the later rounds and was not able to flex them anymore.
Ivan Drago was very similar to Brian Shute in Vision Quest.
Hard working, quiet, both were " villains", but only really from the perspective of the stories main character.
Sly said in the Rocky IV directors cut documentary that Max Schmeling and his two fights with Joe Louis were the inspiration for Drago and Rocky IV's political themes.
Florian and Dulph are such amazing actors and they have amazing chemistry together. I'd love to see a Drago spinoff.
Agreed
So do I
he wasnt a bad guy boxing is a dangerous sport a professional like apollo should of known the risks he didnt take the fight as seriously as drago did and died which is apollos fault not dragos fault i think what made rocky hate him and what made him seem like a bad guy was the taunt if he dies he dies.
Yeah he was a bad guy actually, he went into that exhibition bout with Apollo clearly intent on trying to kill the guy with every punch. The way he was continuing to pummel him after the bell of the first round and over the referee trying to break it up, was clear evidence he wasn't there to box an exhibition bout, he hated Apollo and wanted to destroy him. The scene of him knocking over Apollo's exhibition stand after the press conference beforehand and the tone of the music, was there to indicate he intended something sinister.
When he faced Rocky, it was a totally different attitude and more of a technical boxing match, he wasn't going out there throwing haymakers at Balboa like he wanted to kill him.
So nice try, but Drago knew exactly what he intended to do with Apollo.
I think his gloves may even have been loaded too, the fight was unsanctioned.
@@evildeed90s Apollo was out to humble and humiliate Drago by outboxing him and his camp and Drago knew this full well. During the fight, Drago knew he could never outbox Apollo, it was quite apparent early on.
Again, there's a difference between being in survival mode and pushing the referee out of the way to pummel someone against the ropes and continuing to do so when the bell has already gone for the end of a round.
The guy intended to kill Apollo, especially the last blow he delivered, he knew exactly what was going to happen in the way he walked away after the blow and the look on his face, hence "If he dies, he dies".
I'm not having this we should feel sorry for Drago and he didn't mean it rubbish, the film clearly intended for him to be a villain, trying to spin it now because of some debatably interpreted deleted scenes doesn't do anything to change that.
@@Longlostpuss Another reason Rocky probably wanted revenge was Ivan showing no remorse, just glaring at the corpse in hatred and saying "if he dies he dies" and bragging that he could beat any man. Had he shown remorse Rocky would have been less likely to want revenge.
@@Longlostpuss Thank you. Finally someone with some common sense. Drago is clearly a bad guy in Rocky 4. I don't know what's up with this need to humanize him and make Drago a victim. He clearly went into that fight knowing that 1) it was an exhibition match, not a serious fight, but despite that, 2) he went in with the full intention to kill Apollo, and 3) with the smiles on Ludmilla's and the other guy's (whose name I can't remember now) faces as Apollo went down, it seems they knew Drago's intention as well. Does Apollo bear some responsibility for getting into a fight 5 years after retirement against a younger stronger opponent? Absolutely. But pushing the referee out of the way and launching a full-powered left hook against the head of a man who's obviously out on his feet is a clear indication of what Drago intended.
@@Longlostpuss Yea I agree he was a bad guy but I don't know if his intentions were to kill Apollo or not or if when it seemed that Apollo may have been near death if he didn't just speak the words "if he dies he dies" out of shear bone headedness.But I do know he didn't fight Apollo that way because he hated him,Apollo was simply a means to an end which can be seen in Drago's words after the fight when he said :"now I want to fight real champion!" Drago was simply doing whatever it took to make sure he got rocky into that ring which were the soviets real intentions to begin with.Even if that meant hurting Apollo Creed bad enough to nearly killing him to do so ,that's why Rocky and Drago shared the stare when Apollo was down Drago was letting him know who he was sending that very violent message to.
Alternate movie idea: Rocky forgives Lang, becoming friends...Lang opens his own gym in Chicago and also becomes a minister for troubled youth. He challenges Ivan, both Rocky and Apollo tell Lang not to fight, that he has nothing to prove. Lang convinces Rocky to be in his corner...Lang, like Creed in the original timeline is killied. Rocky goes with Tony and Paulie to Russia... Apollo surprises Rocky and brings Adrian. Now with everyone including Apollo giving him a strategy to beat Drago...trains like never before. Off screen, Apollo discovers Adonis is his son and convinces his wife to raise Adonis together.
this movie is Iconic. TILL THIS DAY, THIS IS MY FAVORITE MOVIE OF ALL TIME. When i use to train before my fights, the soundtrack to this movie is all i would listen to. well done. You did great breaking it down.
Thank you!
I have all of the Rocky Saga
Grew up on Rocky
And Karate Kid
Just subbed
This channel is awesome
Keep it going strong
No Mercy and I Didn't Hear No Bell
Go For It
Thanks so much!
@ Danny In Oak Park: Same here and enjoy The Karate Kid movies more than I did when I was younger, partly due to Cobra Kai tv series being as great as it is currently.
BTW, yall know "You're The Best Around" from The Karate Kid movie was originally meant to be in Rocky 4 but I think the filmmakers went with Burning Heart instead . Mostly due to the first song I mentioned sounded more fitting for the Karate Kid. I forget where I read it from. Same thing with Smallville's main theme was intended for Raimi's Spider-Man film soundtrack but they went with Hero song instead.
I love the Rocky franchise. It was huge part of my childhood. This is my first video from your channel. You took me back my man. Much appreciated.
Thanks for watching!
I kinda feel bad for viktor. He should've had the first win by TKO, then adonis would win the rematch
Truly broken and tragic character. He was built and designed for benefit of USSR but deep inside he was a human. He didn't want to win only for his country but for himself too. And then he was thrown away by everyone, his country, even his wife Ludmilla. He was left alone, broken, with driving will to survive and his son Victor to take care of. He was rough with his son but only because it was the only way he knew and he taught him the everything he knew, fighting. He was taunting Adonis saying you're smaller than your father was and even ensuring his son to play dirty. But in the end when everyone left Victor, including his own mom Ludmilla (again, damn), Ivan was still by his side because he deeply cared about him. He threw the towel and said to his son it's okay despite the fact he lost. Now that's what I call character development. Even though he brutally murdered Apollo Creed in the end for me he's sympathetic
even the original Rocky 4 shows that Drago stood up to the politburo to state that he wanted to win for him as a sportsman, not for the USSR.
100%
You dont have to explain. Drago starts out as a hero (in Russia) and ends as a failure. That's tragic. Apollo Creed, not Adonis.
Good video it's a shame I missed it. BTW although you are not talking about the Kickboxer franchise, Tong-Po was even more of a villain than Ivan Drago. And even Chong-Li for that manner from Bloodsport. Next I think you should do Tommy Gun. Although arrogant Tommy is a talented fighter who is worth a video in my eyes.
I'll keep that in mind! I love both Kickboxer and Bloodsport
Sylvester Stallone, and Jean-Claude Van Damme are my 2 favorite actors!
@@StryfetheWarrior Thank you man
@@grahamodom2819 Yep both are absolutely great
Similar? O.o
Rocky's wife died. Sad, but someday that happens to anyone of us. He allways knew she loved him and he can still talk to her at the graveyard at least. Maybe having a smile thinking about her from time to time. Ivan's wife left him and his son after the one lost fight showing him that there were never any feeling. He was his status and now he is nothing. Even his son suffers from him being unable to keep his marriage.
Rocky not only has his restaurant in terms of financial security. He has a place where people love to hear his stories of the good old days, while nobody cares about Ivan and his own people cheered for Rocky more than they ever did for him.
You can't get much more different in terms of life quality.
Ivan Drago was a wrecking machine. 80's style.
How rocky won was being mentally strong as well as physically. The mental approach was not letting drago intimidate him at all with the power
100%
Ivan saying Adonis was small was just a cruel observation.
He didnt think much of Apollo.
He noticed Adonis was smaller(2 inches shorter and 25 pounds lighter) and said something in his own bitterness
Also Ivan never fought for his country,he wanted glory from them but he didnt care for them.
He wasnt a fool,he knew the guys in the suits were pieces of trash.
As for Apollo he killed him due to roid rage.
There was a line cut from Creed 2 where he said he didnt want to kill Apollo
I just wanna point out that it was revealed later on in a deleted scene in Rocky Balboa that the diagnosis of Brain Damage from the doctors was a misdiagnosis
Should’ve kept the brain damage. Made more sense. It’s only realistic The same dude who killed his hardest opponent would give him brain damage.
would it be canon though if the scene got deleted
If Drago had the same credentials as Lungren has in real life, people would say they went too far with the Drago character and it’s unbelievable. Dolph is an amazing individual
Imagine a timeline where Clubber Lang beats Rocky during Balboa vs Lang II, then Drago fights Lang for the heavyweight title.
Who would win between Lang and Drago?
Dragon, but Lang wouldn't go down easily
Could be a future video!
Drago would destroy him because he’s as strong & has the stamina! Look at it like this: the Rocky in Rocky III couldn’t have beat Drago & he beat Lang in 3 rounds if I remember correctly?
@@acason4 Drago's GENETICS and SIZE are so beyond Lang's that even if he had not been given steroids he would have won easily. And what is more Lang was close to Mike Tyson in capability meaning if Ivan Drago was real he would destroy even a PRIME Mike Tyson. He was THAT POWERFUL.
@@Zurround
I’m aware.
I loved the “I MUST break you.” Not I will break you
I especially enjoyed Creed 2 for giving us more of a Drago backstory
Agreed
Everyone here is talking about Drago's character and how his loss against Rocky changed him. Meanwhile I'm just wondering if it's possible to have the punching force Drago had. Seriously over 2000 psi is insane and I wonder how close someone can actually get to that strength.
Film theory needs to make a video on this
Most likely a plot hidden allusion to soviet propaganda. If Drago really had that much punching power, Rocky would die. It was most likely planted and rigged in the demonstration machines.
Honestly though you couldn’t help but root for victor when he was on the ground saw his mom leave him BUT STILL got back up. He had the same spirit and rocky and Adonis
I was pleasantly surprised to see some original RE1 footage in this video :D
Before that fight Rocky lost his best friend and gave up rights to his title as the boxing commission viewed it. As this video points out this fight broke things in Rocky that essentially would never heal taking FAR more physical damage (short-term and long-term) than Drago, he was forced to retire following a fight he resented so much he doesn't even wish to remember it amidst his colleague of memorials years later. Rocky gave up Christmas with his son (some could "head-canon" a couple years if looking at Robert's age-advance as a sign of time passage for his recovery), the choice to go to Russia stripped away all the finances he worked so hard to build.
Rocky lost just as much as Goku lost his early DBZ fights with Raditz, Vegeta, and Freeza.
I just started watching your videos, I liked the background stories and how you explained their fighting styles.
Thank you so much!
In a way I feel sorry for him. Not pity but actual sympathy. I actually feel for him. This kind of thing makes realize there's really two sides to everyone. Rocky was right to leave what happened in the past. Changing ones circumstances is not always possible. I mean I'm glad he lost but at same time I have a symbiosis relationship with that. I think he acted superior because really that was just the vibe at the time.and current state of things. Also I think culture had lot to do with it as well. And sometimes enough is enough. Pain/suffering been done now. We must do our best to forgive. I suppose he also wanted to prove himself and because lot of things he didn't experience growing up. Perhaps.
Seeing Viktor Drago training Adonis in creed 3 put a tear in my eye. And then sharing smiles a laughs.
Agreed
Watching Drago in Rocky 4 as a kid. I had a serious hate for the USSR ☭ lol 🇺🇸
I'd love to see you break down some of the heroic characters in this franchise as well such as Apollo or even Rocky! There's a serious gap in the market on RUclips when it comes to Rocky character breakdowns!
That's the plan! I might wait for a Creed III home release, but I have plans for Rocky, Apollo, and Adonis.
I recently bought the two pack of Creed films and I gotta say they're both really good movies. I love how they made Creed 2 work by giving both sides a reason to fight while not making either side the overt villain. If we never get a Creed 3 I can live with that knowing the previous two movies were done so well.
Stallone noted that for Rocky V...Rocky never got a second opinion on his injuries...if he did...the trajectory of the films would have been changed dramatically.
Agreed
Maybe, but he had already won as much as somebody could win by that point. No point to keep fighting
Drago reminds me loosely of Brock Lesnar, though obviously Drago came first. Brock simply beat his opponents in MMA by being bigger and stronger and overpowering them. When Brock first came up, he barely talked, much like Drago. He let his actions speak for themselves.
Suplex City!
I saw him as a tragic character since even without the directors cut he was still being used as a political flexing tool . He was used his entire life and became a pet with no personal agency. When his humanity was let off he couldn't even process the feeling, because he was never allowed to be himself.
And speaking about Johnny, he was always a complex character. If you put yourself in Johnnys shoes you see Larusso acting the way he did and i would be pissed too. I mean he didn't handle things in a mature way, but neither him or larusso were mature, on age or personal level. I like Cobra Kai gave him more depth, but his role in the first movie was always as a good student of a bad teacher.
I know many won't agree, I know how badly hurt Drago was but I always felt he gave up and almost lost on purpose.
The big turning point was when they started talking to him like a dog and he saw their looks of contempt.
At that point he didn't seem to have any will left to carry on.
He might very well have dropped out of spite, as he clearly saw even his "wife" had no love for him.
When the people were behind him, he had pride and surely felt loved by the people, when everyone turned against him then you could see a hopeless look in his eyes.
Why should he be punished and suffer so much when they treat him as an animal and he's nothing more than property?
The only time he was in charge of his life was when he was in the ring.
They only time he had respect and love was when he was winning.
Solid point
100% correct. Absolutely.
✅✔☑
Even though Rocky obtained scars after his fight with Ivan he still survived and seeing how Rocky could take Ivan's punches why that's superhuman seeing how Ivan literally hits like a bullet. And seeing how Rocky can not only take those hits but also take him down.
Ivan Drago is a favourite of my father. My Father used to live in the USSR and was a boxer and wrestler and when I was born, he made sure the first few films I watched were from the Rocky Series. Drago was a character that displayed barely any emotion and was like a machine, my Father taught me that it was the reason he lost. Since machines can always be broken.
Great analogy
I do like the Ivan Drago character, however during his fight with Apollo Creed, the ref steps in, and stops the fight.. Ivan pushes the ref aside and continues to pummel Apollo leading to his death...every Punch thrown after the ref stoppage is assault, as the match had been declared officially over... Drago should have been arrested.
He probably had diplomatic immunity, but yeah, I see your point, they should've made a bigger deal about that in the movie.
Yeah, very despicable for him to keep punching both rounds, and not to mention I think the only thing that could've saved Apollo is Rocky jumping in there himself. Him throwing the towel might not have really done anything considering the fact that he threw the ref aside
Rocky 4, definitely my favorite out of the franchise! Like you said, so many things from Rocky 4 carried all the way into Creed 2; connecting it all years later gave Creed 2 that serious it factor throughout the whole movie. 😁
I got to say this was a phenomenal video analysis. I can see exactly the pin point perfect accuracy. Thank you this is a video I didn’t know I need it. But I’m thankful to have it.
Thank you!
No one talks about the job of the referee, which is to protect a fighter from possibly getting killed. Unfortunately, Rocky movie referees seem to have never heard of technical knock outs, or TKO’s. The ref had the onus to step between Ivan and Apollo to stop the fight, and he refused to do so.
He was thrown to the side, but I agree, he should've kept trying to stop it
I really enjoyed the analysis in this video. A good job by Stryfe the Warrior.
Thank you very much.
Thank you!
amazing analysis tysm!
Hot take: Drago was the underdog in this fight. He was monstrously strong and built, but he was an elevated rookie going straight for a fight against one of the most legendary champions in the history of boxing. The fact that he did as well as he did should be a feather in his cap and definitely shouldn't count against him (let alone get him banished)
Good point!
In the video, Ivan kept being called a villain, but what really made Ivan a villain? He is boxer, he wanted a shot at Rocky. Was Appollo a villain? Was Clubber Lang a villain? Was Tommy Gunn a villain?
Ivan Drago embodies the End and Aftermath of the Cold War ... respect !
6:50 also it is metaphorically calling Drago a soulless machine.
Good point!
It wasn't before Rocky could throw the towel in in Rocky IV, you can clearly see he held on to the towel and intentionally not through it. Not to say that Rocky didn't want to, he just kept his promise to Apollo.
What I loved about the Rocky vs Drago fight was how Rocky was taunting and toying with Drago in the final round, exactly like Drago taunted and toyed with Apollo during their fight. It was a perfect mirror image of quid pro quo, and it settled the matter once and for all.
Great video, love your evaluation on Rocky and Drago
Thank you!
Am I the only one who wanted to see Drago vs Clubber Lang ? I've always wondered what that fight would look like !
Clubber would go down in like round 4 or some. He had power but his lack of stamina would show itself against an opponent like Drago
Drago would kill him
Well done sir! Great explanation. Deep and thorough. Really well done.
Thank you!
The first time my cousin and I watched this we forgot it was a movie, and went for Apollo because he was on Rocky's side; it was one thing to see Apollo lose the match, but it was devastating to see him die. Then with the way everyone spoke about it at school, we genuinely believed that Drago had killed Apollo for real.
Something that Apollo never understood in his not wanting to be remembered as a has-been mindset is that everyone who is ever someone will eventually become a has-been. He just hadn't accepted that everything fades.
Good point
fun fact for Rocky 4. Actor Dolph was asked by Sylvestor to hit him for real. Dolph hit him in the chest so hard that they went to the hospital and the hospital thought he was in a car crash as his chest/heart were bruised in such a way that similar injuries are almost always seen in car accidents. So, Dolph actually hits like a truck.
Yeah, I read about that. That's scary
True but it ain’t no 2000lbs of pressure
So much little details I didn't notice that u pointed out, I still can't believe they deleted that scene from creed 2, it did SOO much for both drago's as well as rocky and creed
Agreed. Glad they still somewhat consider it canon due to what occurs in Creed III.
Just found this channel its put together really well and entreating I will definitely be a regular subscriber
Although the game footage is the only thing that spoils it a bit I understand why it has to be done
The amount of force Deontay Wilder or Francis Nganua hit with are near those Drago levels
Why would anyone think he was exploited by his Country?
To me it appears more like he was happy to be able to serve his Country
Most in depth look at these movies . Well done!
Thank you!
Love that small little story where someone broke in and tied up Dolph' wife, at which point they realised they'd just broken into Ivan Drago's house.
When rocky was training, he trained to be able to "take it"
That's all he could do was let Drago tire himself out.
Ivan Drago / Dolph Lundgren made Rocky IV. His scenes are the only ones I re-watch, as the rest of the film feels too much like a "cartoony" departure from the gritty relatable story of the first two films (and to a lesser degree the third)...and okay, I do watch the montages, because who doesn't like an epic montage with 80s music? 😄 The cultural dichotomy is interesting. Drago loses one fight and is a social pariah in Russia for the rest of his life. Rocky lost plenty of fights, yet was never publicly disgraced. One thing I liked about the series is they weren't afraid to let Rocky lose, even after the first film. Heck, if you look at the major fights featured, he was 3-3! He went 1-1 against Apollo, 1-1 against Clubber, he beat Drago (who probably would have wrecked him in a rematch as Drago recovered physically and Rocky never did), and then lost to Dixon.
Also, they really should have left in the locker room scene at the end of Creed 2. It helped further humanise the Dragos. Plus it was impactful that Adonis was able to let the grudge go, while Rocky and Ivan were finally able to bury the proverbial hatchet after more than thirty years.
100%. I noticed that Rocky Balboa and both Creed movies had scenes that should've never been cut imo
A hbo max miniseries on Drago would be awesome to give some background on Drago and see what happened after his fall to rocky
Agreed
He is very much one based on creed 2
He was manipulated by his wife and country to be used for propaganda. Dragon believed he had it all and lost it all. Despite all he did for them, they threw him away.
The line I must Break you seems almost like he doesn’t WANT to do this but he has no choice to do it.
The scene in where they meet again says a lot.
At the end Drago wants his son more then his country.
The deleted scene where Adonis and Victor should’ve stayed. I almost feel that Viktor and Adonis could have a relationship like Apollo and Rocky had
Agreed
Been hoping to find videos like this on the Rocky franchise for ages. Thought I was the only one that put this much thought into it.
I want a video on why Rocky is an expert on bricks 'my husband is an expert on bricks' was she joking? Or serious? Not like Adrian to be cracking sarcastic jokes to strangers.
Want a video on Paulies past... 'I never got married cos of you' he shouted that at Adrian... think he had a relationship that fell apart?
This stuff keeps me up at night lol
I don't remember her saying that. When and what movie?
Thank you! I'm working on more.
It was Lundgren's idea of how his character should talk; he explained this in an interview on another RUclips video; this was just before the theatre release of Creed II.
I feel sad for him spent most of his life as a vessel of anger and hatred only to pass it on to his son at least he made peace ✌ with everyone and himself