Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
THE OTHER GUYS-PONTIAC POWER!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- FULL DYNO RESULTS, 455 PONTIAC, STREET RACING, DYNO BRULE AND MORE. Why is the 455 my favorite Pontiac? It's not just cuz bigger is better! Q-JET VS EDELBROCK CARB TEST-PLUS, ITS A FRICKEN PONTIAC 455! That is about as other guy Big Block as you can get (though it might technically be a small block).
Pontiac engines are definitely awesome for making torque. They have their little quirks, but once you get to know them they really are a pleasure to work with. I build them all the time and I think they are one of the best engines ever designed.
Classic reaction where are you located? Looking for someone to build a 400
@@wilburgreen5673 Where are you located?
@@chrisharrison3245 Sorry to get back so late. I only do work for myself. Way to busy at work and never ending projects. Just don't have the time. Good luck to you. If you are in the Phoenix area there is a guy that I would highly recommend.
There's nothing like a Pontiac !
Yes, all of the engines from the 50s like the Pontiac, the FE, and the 60s the 64-67 Oldsmobile 400 for the F-85 with the 4 inch bore and 4 inch stroke and the Buick at 4.094 x 3.9 . All of them are good for boost. Put studs in the mains, 4 bolt the Pontiac, Buick and Olds, the FE some Pro-Gram cross bolt main caps. The FE and the Cleveland’s use the same cam and main bearings, King I believe that have a lower friction coating. I have 2-3 428 Nodular iron CJ cranks and a 3.79 391 FT steel crank that actually be offset ground to 3.9.
428 from a big car stuffed into an early Firebird is damn quick.
Love the old Ponchos. Good to see one still out there being tuned on.
As for popping the hood on a car to check the engine, my son (who formed his own opinion, at maybe 9 years of age, that happens to match mine) doesnt linger at a car with an LS or SBC swap but will look extra long at a car with an engine that matches the body's brand. Proud papa moment.
other guys material
Based on a 1969 owners manual the Pontiac wants heavy oil like a 20-50 oil. I quite like the Ram Air IV 400. Currently building a RA IV wide port aluminum headed street engine with 500 cubic inches and a little extra ring gap, might be a bottle feed LS hunter. Going into a light weight first gen bird with an 80e and a 9inch.
As a Pontiac guy I'm PUMPED with this. We've got a 461 being built right now. There's a ton of fun!
You will have fun with it,
I built a .030 over 455 with RA-4 cam, Rhoads lifters and slightly ported 6X-4's in an 84 mazda RX7 when the Rotary croaked..., with the 462 it weighs 2700lb added a modded 800 Q-jet and home built headers. at 60 MPH can punch the throttle and it Just smokes those little185 /70x13 radials with a 4.10 posi and 200-4R.
Always an ear to ear grin
literally 😁
Loved this video, I am proud to say I have a 1973 Formula 455, I also have a 2014 Stingray and I can tell you the vette doesn't get that much attention on the road but when that big block Pontiac comes down the road every single head turns to look.
Ok NOW you have our attention! Having JUST rebuilt the 455 for our project '70 LeMans very very interested!
If you guys are curious what a similar Pontiac 455 will make we actually have all of our dyno and build stuff on our channel here to give you some "real world numbers" to compare to.
9.5 : 1 compression, lightly worked cast iron 6x heads with D ports, Edelbrock Performer intake, very VERY similar build to this machine here and it's meant to be used in a cruiser with occasional strip use. We ran a Demon, a QJet, and a Holley Sniper all with results posted. We turned out VERY similar numbers as well ended up with 440 horsepower and 515 torque. What really makes these things fun is if you had pulled the thing down lower in the rev range. Making 400+ torque at 2200 RPMs is where a street machine REALLY does some bruising... and burning of tires!
Thanks for the video and showing us Poncho guys some love!
Really dig that the guy kept a pontiac in the grand prix. I love a good engine swap but its nice to see the right engine in a car once in a while
You just insulted alot of Pontiac guys, lol. They're all yellin "there's no big or small block!" Haha
Love the Pontiac, had a few myself, thanks for all the testing !
Forgive my ignorance, but what do "Pontiac Guys" mean when they say there isn't a small or big block? Could someone explain please?
@@SARJENT. no biggie, Pontiac only had one physical size block from the 326 to the 455. Just had different bore and stroke.
@@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions oh okay. Thanks for the clarity, I learned something today. Haha.
Pete Schemberger real shit. Pontiac motors are ginormous.
Just big journal or small journal.
Dave Bisshop owner of SD Performance is my old boss and makes Killer cnc ported Pontiac heads!
If it has the thin melling oil pump cover double it up and you will gain 5-8 psi of hot idle oil pressure, run 15-40 or 20-50, when you run a little fatter rod and main clearance it will be 20-30psi at idle, they want to be about 12.2:1 even as low as 11.8:1 on the fueling for max power, and 35-36* on the timing fwiw
For tuning a quadrajet, Cliff Ruggles is a guy I get my help from. He did some serious testing on Pontiac manifold and got the best track times with a massaged factory iron manifold. Good guy willing to share knowledge
Got mine done by Jeff aka "Shaker455" without the 6 month backlog hoopla from Ruggles.
Cliff is retired. He sends all of his work to Quadrijet Power LLC in Texas now.
Retired or not, he still is a great help on his forum.
No doubt, I just know how busy he is with his projects and few people are aware that he has retired from taking in new Q-Jet rebuilds.
Loved seeing that 455 on the dyno! Had a couple of them once upon a time. A Ram Air 4 cam in a 455 makes an easy 12 second first and second gen Firebird back in the day.
Holy crap 0w-20 in a 1970's motor? Who thought that was a good idea?
Yup
The guy who machined it to modern tolerances maybe?
@Johnny Pinto I have a stock 350 h.o. from 1969 and a 400 block I want to build into a low rpm stump pulling 455. Is 0w-30 or 10w30 fine for the 350? Is 15w-40 too much for the 455?
@@jimmypatterson9854 If you live somewhere very hot go for a thick oil like 15w-50. If you live somewhere cold go for a thinner oil like 0w-30, or 10w-30. If you live in a climate with moderate temperatures go for something in between like 5w-40 or 10w40. If you don't want to pay the premium for special "vintage car" oil, then buy a truck oil formulated for heavy diesel engines. Diesel oil tends to work very well in old American iron engines, it has the additives that old school iron engines need and it's cheap.
Welcome to my world, the 500ftlb everywhere world with massaged stock parts. I find it amusing that all the videos and articles from HRM and the like always show these daily driver, stock smog head, mild cam builds, and not the type of engines I build with Pontiac. What does it have a 218@.050 cam in it? There is no big block or small block Pontiac, they are all pretty much the same size on the outside. There is a whole world of Pontiac engines that will make this one look tame, but nobody covers it.
Throw compression at it and 250cfm iron heads, run it on E85 with one of my Qjets and you will see a completely different animal that makes even more torque and carries it farther up in the RPM range.. the cool part is the Pontiac doesn't need lots of RPM to make power. Increase the airflow to 300+cfm and now the 455 will rev to 7000 with good rods, and 650hp/tq on pump gas is just as easy as making 500ftlbs like this mild one. 700hp is 330cfm heads away with a mild(ish 270@.050) roller, and it will still make over 550ftlbs at 3000rpm. That is why the 455s go slower with a 3.70 or deeper gear, and run faster with a 3.55 or taller gear. 12 second quarter mile times are easy with a 2.93 gear, 1900 stall, and 8.8:1 compression in a 4000lb car. Imagine what one of these things will do in a 2100lb car. That 455 cost me all of $1800 to build, with cast pistons, stock rods and crank, and it didn't care which dual plane intake I put on it either.
As for turbos, 15psi will double the power, so do the math on that when you have 500-550ftlbs. Justin Shearer, aka Big Chief, has around 3000hp/tq with his IAII based 482, Tommy Youmanns is putting down 3300hp at the wheels with his. Chief's is a bit more tame, running the same heads and CNC program that are on my 700hp/tq pump gas 467. He is throwing a couple atmosphere's at it.
Fun fact about the Pontiac, every one of them from 1954(when it was designed and supposed to be released but was forced by GM to wait for the chevy release) to 1979 has a 6.625" connecting rod, and all of the cylinder heads will bolt to all the blocks. So a 287 head and intake will bolt to a 455, 400, 389, 421, 370, 316, 326, 350, 428, or an aftermarket 540ci IAII or MR1 based monster. There is no big and small Pontiac, most of us don't count the 301, its a short deck version made to be lighter, but still has the same cylinder bore space and head gasket dimensions. The parts interchange of a Pontiac is huge, within a few year breaks where you need the matching parts for valve reliefs or intake manifold angle, everything but pistons and rings will fit, and a 421/428 4" crank and a 455's 4.21" crank will fit in a 350, 389, or 400 block if you turn the mains down to 3" from the factory 3.25" and build up the thinner thrust surface on the 3.25" crank. Its easier now to get a $300 aftermarket crank with the 4.21" or 4.25" stroke and put it in a 389/400 block.
I can make 7:1 to 13:1 with a factory head by only swapping the heads, all Pontiacs except a few 428s had flat top pistons, they used the chamber volume in the head to adjust compression ratios. all 1967 to 1979 heads have a 14 degree valve angle, all the 4 barrel heads had screw in studs and 2.11" intake valves. Custom race stuff with the chevy, factory stock in the Pontiac. Its a much better engine than people realize.
Can you say sleeper? I can tell you my 540 is a 350 and unless you know these engines, you can't tell. I can put 326 Valve covers and timing cover on it and tell you its a 65 vintage 326.. only a Pontiac guy will know.
Good stuff man. I’ve been racing and building performance Pontiac’s for 15+ years and I couldn’t agree more. I’ve lived and done some of your examples. People are just not as aware when it comes to other V8s. But that’s what makes it cool and different. Good post !
@Thump Er Sounds like you've got a little experience with Pontiac. I remember years ago, when my local track was running NHRA class racing. A guy with a 326 Lemans won Stock two weeks in a row, the third week somebody paid to have him checked. They found a 455.
@@porkchoppontiac8965 contrary to popular belief the Pontiac is not overly expensive to build either. I suppose if you go through a local parts store for speed parts and they charge you list, then it can be.
My cost for a fresh rebuild is about $500-$800 for machine work, $1500 for porting the heads and they come with new guides, stainless valves, whatever spring package I need, and they come in around $3000 total. The cool part is they make so much power without the entire aftermarket being thrown at them.
I went mid 11s in a 3900lb car with a $2700 455 that was all fresh inside with a mild flat cam. That was with 3.42 gears and a stock 1900 stall.
They think the chevy is the cheap way to go fast, but in reality its the big cubes in the Pontiac.
Wait until you see what I have coming up in the near future..
@@ledbetterjack Only about 35 years, its where my focus has been. Also really like the 351C, that is a small block that impresses the hell out of me. Its my go to for an RPM monster.
Yep, true, I've yet to see a platform that makes a better powerband up to around 850hp NA, Pontiacs are killer street and race info, and yes I know the true origins of Chiefs cnc program too lol
This one makes me a little sad. When I was around ten, a Trans Am with a 455 came up for sale near by my family, needed work but nothing too outrageous. Me and my father were on the way out the door to go buy it as a project for the two of us when my mother threw a shit fit and refused to allow it.
That was over twenty years ago and it still hits me in the feels every time I see a 455 working well. :lol:
Its easy enough to get a Pontiac engine, they made millions of them. You can take any 389 or 400 block and with a $300 crank turn it into a 455. They're all the same size, but the 421, 428 and 455 have a 3.25" main bearing, the 400 and smaller engines have a 3" main, and the bore on a 400 is only .030 smaller than the 455. If you want one, you can get one easy enough.
Ugrasrava if that where my mom I’d hate her for the rest of my life
Moms always be buggin..... but they're usually always right. You boys was probably spending money that you didn't have lol
@Daver G that was my first ex, she hated that I just went and bought my 70 GTO and built an engine for my 79 Formula, she had everything she needed, the kids had what they needed and I did the car stuff with side job money, my regular paychecks went to providing for the family. Most of my side job money went to the family too, but some went to build my hotrods.
She controls the guy she has now, he does what she says.. so she is happy and so am I. I have GTOs, Firebirds, and all kinds of other cool stuff.
@@SweatyFatGuy Good for you you only live once ,At least you understood that early enough
Glad to see some Pontiac Power!!! That's what's in my Firebird. Everyone tells me to throw an LS in it... I rather keep it all Pontiac, regardless if it costs more. Keep up the videos.
Agreed, keep the Pontiac. There's too many LS engines running around already
The interesting thing about the Pontiac is they never made a small block and never made a big block , same deck Height from the 350 clear to the 455 , I'm a Hugh Pontiac Fan I've tacked many over the years in my engine shop . In fact I'm not even wearing pants watching this
Wow Richard, you have awakened some good ole memories from as far back as............never mind.....yes, I'm old! lol Anyway, back in high school, a buddy of mine (he was a senior) got a 1964 Lemans with the overhead cam six in it for graduation. Awesome lil car. Then a cousin of mine bought a 1964 GTO used, midnight blue, white interior automatic. A friend of my dad bought a 1965 GTO 389 tri-power 4 spd and I got to drive a few times......AND WAS BIT BY THE BUG!!! Two years later, I bought my first Pontiac, a 1966 GTO 389 4 brl 4 spd convertible from an Army guy that just got back from Nam and had ordered a brand new Olds Cutlas W-31. So.....yes, I'm a big Pontiac fan and so is one of my brothers who has also had several of his own. Nicest one he had was a 1967 Bonneville, white w/red int., he always said it was the nicest "road car" he ever had. Thanks again Richard, u dah man!
Wow, holding over 500ft-lbs of torque from below 3000rpm all the way to nearly 5000. No wonder I've heard so much about these monsters, that's nuts.
455 2 bbl made 500 ft/lbs and less than 300 hp but would pull a 9 passenger wagon ....
They are pretty stout but sadly their is little aftermarket support.
@@compted10 They don't need much aftermarket, but the Pontiac still has a lot of parts available, aftermarket blocks, D port, round port, CV-1 Cleveland style, and Ram Air V heads, rather than having most of the big companies its smaller guys like DCI and All Pontiac producing parts. This was mostly factory low compression smogger stuff, the 6X head came out in 1976 and was on all the 400s and 350s until 79. The big difference is compression ratios, the D port heads all flow within 10cfm of each other when they have the 2.11" intake valves. Yes not a typo, 2.11" intakes with a 14 degree inclination angle. Things you need custom and expensive stuff to get with a chevy.
@@compted10 You can get anything you want for them these days. Butler Performance has it all.
@@SealofPerfection Don't forget Tin Indian.
That would be a monster with a turbo, and about 5-10 psi!
My dad always said; "If you're lucky, you ain't gotta be good".
His favorite motor was a 455 Pontiac.
The two sayings he said more often than the above?
"You just gotta be smarter than what you're fucking with"
and "Cleanliness is next to Godliness"
Love this video, 20 years ago I built an almost identical 455 down to the Rhoads lifters, ported 6x heads and worked Q-jet and ran it with a stock and Performer RPM intake. It was a great reliable street bracket motor for years in my 1964 LeMans. I know there wasn’t.much left but I would have like to have seen Steve take it up to 5300-5500 rpms just to see exactly where it rolled over.I have a wilder N/A one going in my 4sp 455 73 TA Along with a turbocharged 455 for my 64. I love the new LS stuff as I have 2 2006 GTOs one twin Turbo and one supercharged but I still get excited about a 455 Pontiac in a classic Pontiac. I really enjoy your channel and maybe one day I’ll get one of my engines on it when I have Steve put it on the dyno. A few years ago you helped him flow test a few sets of my LS heads and some Pontiac 301 heads that I extensively worked. Keep up the good work.
Very cool! It's nice to see a mild classic engine. This is the kind of engine a lot of us caught the car bug with. It'll be a kick in that 71 Grand Prix!
I'm pretty sure, if I were there with brule" and richard, my head wold just EXPLODE !! That's a ton of knowledge .. wow.. like 100 years experience combined!
HOT DAMN! I LOVE this kinda stuff! FINALLY a application where as us OLD regular street guys can actually relate. i rarely comnent on the other videos...BUT THIS ONE... 💯✔ big old guy thx you
Thanks for sharing your dyno time and experience, really appreciated
In high school I had a 72 Pontiac Ventura with a 350....new "factory" cam, performer rpm intake,650 dp...and it ran a high 13's and I thought it was the fastest thing....I had 3 other Ventura's ....Love them Pontiac 400 motors
428 ported heads, cam 240 , sodium filled valves, Quadrajet carb and intake , cast manifolds, 3800 lb lemans ,3.23 open gear , single exhaust with turbo muffler , wheelies 1st and second , 130plus in second. 350 turbo.
A sleeper. 8 inch rear tires. Open the hood and it looked stock. I know they made torque. The 428 was factory rated at 390hp and actually made 450hp.This one? Maybe 500 plus. Lots a fun at traffic lights.
I'm a Ford guy, but I was amazed how fast those 8.4 compression 455's were!! I started driving in 1975! My father bought a 67 Comet with a tp109 solid lifter cam, headers, dual point distributor. Broke the pinion in the 8" axle from wheel hop! Now Amy smuck with good credit can haul ass! You had to do it yourself back then! Great video! I especially like how well you break down the parts and tuning!
belated thanks for covering some Pontiac engines. I'm restoring/building a GTO that will have 455 with ported 6x but more agressive cam.
I love seeing the 455 run on the dyno. That’s going to be a great street car motor.
Had a 68 428 in a 79 Trans Am...A beast. No one in my area had any Pontiac knowledge and the internet was in it's infancy. I had to become the expert. I miss my Indian
"hidden" oil galley plug left out by the builder? Or a galley plug driven in too far, restricting flow? If thicker oil doesn't make a big difference, time to tear into it! Thanks for featuring a Pontiac! Would love to see more real Pontiac engines! Thanks!
I love the 421 and 428's! Underrated engines!
Shhh!!
Speaking of big other guys, you could do a caddy 500 up with a cam, basic porting, and a turbo, give it the big bang, and then donate it to david freiburger for the caddy gremmie! Or see if you could guest star a roadkill. Could promo the channel well.
Projects Forever the stock rods wouldn’t hold but up grade the rods and pistons I’d put it up against the 7.3l power stroke
421 SD was my favorite, but any Pontiac is fine with me.
I agree , back in the day I thought I had a fast Monte Carlo with a 350hp 350 in it , till I got my ass spanked by a 67 326 firebird . Just flat ass left me like I was standing still .
I had a 64 LeMans 2 dr post with the 326 HO it had a 4V AFB and 3 speed , a nice 280 hp engine. Later I had a 70 LeMans Sport with a 350, but the cam went flat. I found a RA4 and did a razor blade rebuild and it ran good, and it had that sweet sounding cam.
Thank you, Richard, I had a great time getting it dyno-ed there at Westech!
Richard Holdener...Gotta love the Pontiac torque.......I swapped a 455,turbo 400 into a Dodge Dakota years ago.It was a fast little truck with a 2.70 rear gear.
I am not an engine master, but Pontiac didn't make big blocks that I know of. They did have big displacements but all the blocks 350, 400 and 455 had the same dimensions except for the 301 which I believe had lower deck height. Any body can please add to this, but someone that truly knows. Thank you and great video.
I ran a 421 HO in my 63 Grand Prix it was built and balanced with a nice cam and I had the 716 heads on it with screw in studs and roller rockers back in the Muscle car days Backed by a 4 speed and 3:90 rear stock This old girl would Eat Vetts and other cars for lunch. Can 600+ hp be bad to have... nothing like that sound of the Tri power at wide open throttle. I also had a 69 Grand Prix with a 428 HO under the hood. Total sleeper on the street and the strip....
THANKS< My favorite hot rod was a 71 Gran Prix w/455 tricked out to the max with 2 4's and almost everything, it was a sleeper Beast. Problem was it started coming off the ground at 175 (creating a major pucker factor) so I never knew how fast it would go. It had about 650HP at the rear wheels. LOVED IT!
My personal favorite Poncho was the 428. its just a bigger 421 super Duty. I had a friend in high school that had a 75 TA 400. I don't remember what happened but he ended up swapping the 400 out for a 428. it was the only car in town that would keep up with my 76 Camaro packing a 350 LT1 goodwrench crate engine that I bought over the counter at the local dealer in 1989 for just over $1000 dollars. it was always a toss up who would win the local stopping light drag race on Friday night. it always came down to who got traction or the jump at the light. those were the days.
Thanks for the Pontiac vid. Hopefully some day you can give us more! Cams, intakes, heads and boost. I know im dreaming since this is next to impossible for you... Not like you can find a Pontiac in the junkards anymore.
I was preaching about the 455 since 1989. Glad the world is finally figuring it out...
Good video! I like how it was all practical and a little behind the scenes.
Growing up, my mother had a 68 gto with a 400 and a 4 spd. which she later sold to my brother. I LOVED it and have been hooked on Pontiacs ever since.
Some serious nostalgia there! That will be a very nice street engine. Keep ‘em comin’’!
Yes
Wow Richard! My first car was the same as yours! 1970 split bumper RS Camaro, I loved that car. Building it gave me the bug that makes it so enjoyable to watch your channel!
Thanks for the video. I'd like to see 1966 Pontiac tri-carb 389 GTO engine on the dyno. A friend of mine in high school found a 1966 GTO 4-speed tri-carb in his driveway in 1979. His older brother had bought it at an auction in Bristol VA. It came with a bad clutch that was going to be be replaced for free when the mechanic that had worked on the car in its past got resettled in Northern Virginia in a few weeks. My friend's brother wasn't living at home at the time and my friend found the keys for the car. The gas tank was on empty and I knew that vintage car needed premium leaded fuel. Well I put my five dollars in and we went to a Sunoco gas station that had the highest octane gasoline you could buy at the time although it was unleaded. Wow, was I impressed by the acceleration of that GTO 389 tri-carb! Even with a bad clutch it got from 15 mph to 60 mph in about 3.5 seconds! Later my friend got a lot better at shifting it and using the revs. It was torque monster below 4500 rpms, between 4500 and 5000 the engines character went crazy.
Above 5000 rpms the engine really came into its own and it sounded like there was something alive it the engine wanting to get out. I assumed that's when the tri-carb was fully open. The real power was between 5,500 rpms and around 6,600 rpms. One time I was in the rider's seat when we were going through an intersection on Gallows Rd just south of Merrifield VA when my friend was going about 35mph and floored it in second gear almost instantly shifted to 3rd gear. He some how got it just right. My weight was about 145 pounds at that time and I was pushed back against the seat so hard I completely collapsed the seat's springs and could feel the seat's framing on my back. In something under 2 seconds we'd gone from 35-40 mph to 75-80 mph. I figured out the acceleration at about 1.2 Gs to go from 35 mph to around 75 mph in under 2 seconds.
Northern Va intersection in that area frequently had a large road crown from the crossing road continuing through the intersection that would heave a car going 35-40 mph if it was well composed. Loose cars were thrown into fits and a bit out of control and would choose to go through around 15-20 mph. We were going 80 mph and I didn't see how we'd get across one of those intersections. We were lucky and the first one we hit wasn't as bad as some. My friend learned a trick with that car. If he were to get off the throttle just before reaching the crown in the middle of the intersection then go hard throttle just as the front of the car was reaching the crown it would lift the noise of the car up over the crown keeping it from hammering into the crown. This was away to get through at 80 mph if you couldn't slow down which was not likely with the four manual drum brakes on the GTO. When the car was under hard acceleration the rear of the car didn't squat, but became hard almost solid. I felt the suspension at that point was really just the tall sidewalls of the rear tires. That allowed the car to get through intersection situation common in our area at high speed. I remember thinking we were going to die when my friend did that the first time with me in the car and then in wonderment how we and the car had gotten through unscathed. It was a hard hit on the rear of the car, but it stayed in perfect composure. It was just incredible in that car how you could go from normal speeds to twice them in a little more than the wink of an eye and as passenger you'd be held up against seat frame with breathing seemingly being something that could wait till it would be a whole lot easier.
Well the clutch was slipping most of the time after a while and my friend parked it, but not before taking it out few more times. He said one time he was in 3rd gear and he missed the shift to 4th and the car was hanging at 7,000 rpms shacking the hood. He said it didn't seem to run as well after that. In a month or so his brother took the car to have the clutch replaced for free as had been the deal.
I continued to ask about the GTO and my friend said his brother called up about it and the mechanic was working on the car at night. Four days past and he kept getting the same story. Then the garage said the car was gone and the mechanic had disappeared as well. It didn't seem like a reasonable story. Then the garage said they thought the mechanic was involved with running drugs. Also, didn't seem like a likely situation. Then two months later my friend said he was home when two detectives came by asking about the car.
The story they told is one of the best chase stories ever! Evidently it wasn't drug deal, but a police sting operation and the GTO guys knew they were dealing with a police sting and had set it up to get a lot of cash money and made it happen too quick for the money to have any serial numbers taken or any of the normal routines followed. Some 50 police cars had been brought to be around the GTO "called the blue car" on the police radio when there was going to be a swap for $80,000 cash for drugs when the blue car just seemed to disappear after the $80,000 had been passed.
The police would get a spotting of the blue car and then a huge number of police cars would try to converge on it when it would disappear again. The police cars end of crashing into each other and other things. Those Northern VA intersection with a road crown running through them from the intersecting road would be close to impossible to traverse at 50-60 mph in Ford Torino popular with the police in the mid 1970s. After 20 minutes there were so many crashed police cars with requests for medical help for police being requested over the radio, the person in charge of the local police ordered his people to stand down and park in a safe place until given further instruction and DO NOT CHASE THE BLUE CAR DO NOT ENGAGE THE BLUE CAR LET THE BLUE CAR GO. The cops by that point seemed to have become hypnotized in getting the blue car so much they weren't mentally fit to do anything. According to the official running the sting the people doing the drugs had been ordered out of the country and were only there "as a favor" to them. The local police manager decided that if that was true he'd likely never see those people again in his area. He no longer had a single un crashed police car out of the 50 or so they'd stared with. He had officers that were injured they were not bring in ambulance for because the sting operation didn't want to relinquish operational captivity. And he didn't know, but feared what civilian crashes and injuries the operation had caused he'd be dealing with over the next two months. So they let the blue car go.
I left out a lot. My friend took over an hour to tell me the story.
That 1966 GTO was said at the action to have been configured with just about every performance modification possible over its history with the original owner who used the same mechanic during this period, but was returned to "near stock" configuration after its last rebuild. I found out later Pontiacs V8 change their displacement by changing their stroke with a different crank shafts. If during a rebuild a 389 cu. in. engine were to have its crank swapped for a high performance high displacement crank there would be no external indication that 389 had become a 461. The GTO under full throttle seemed to have its engine revs keep on accelerating their rate of increase until just before it was time to shift then start the process all over again. The car would plant itself on its rear tires when accelerating allowing even more grip. I felt the rear tire tread once after my friend had been running the car and it was warm and gooey almost moldable in my fingers. I tried my best to read the writing on the those tire's sidewalls and it was too faint to read. It looked like the writing may have been rubbed out, but why? Just by the grip it seemed that car could likely out accelerate other cars even if they had similar horsepower they likely couldn't plant it into the road the way that GTO was able to.
That was the last I ever heard about the 1966 GTO, but wow!
After I got my RA IV '64 GTO project completed in '71,I met a new friend that worked at Nichol's Engineering in Griffith ,IN.They were building NASCAR engines for Pontiac at that time,and he bought a beautiful '72 Firebird SD455.We used to cruise together in each other's cars.He told me that the RA IV was his favorite Pontiac engine,and offered to buy mine,but I wasn't done with the fun yet.That Firebird was awesome tho,smoothe as silk.
Love your channel. Recently got hooked on you from engine masters when you did the Big Bang 6.0 twin turbo. It’s funny because I’m already in the process of building the exact same setup and boom it showed up on tv lol. I’m doing the ls route right now due to cost but eventually would love to switch over to pure Pontiac eventually. Maybe others around you would put up there Pontiac engines for you to try. The Super Duty 421&455 would be cool to test. Doubt you could find the mythical Ram Air V but it’d be cool to see too. The Butler brothers at Butler performance know their Pontiac stuff. Chief on street outlaws makes those Pontiac’s run insane with twins. I’d love to see what you could do with some boost on a Pontiac as that’s where I’d like to be some day. Keep up the great work.
Would love to see the “ other guys” 455 olds!!! Thanks for all the videos and knowledge.
Back in high school I had a 1965 GTO. But she was a 455 Super Duty bored 30 and 10 on the stroke. Blue pride and balanced by Boeing aircraft. My uncle work there had a buddy that done that for me. Yes I had a six-pack on top look like a 389 to most people until you looked at the valve covers. LOL she was quick
I had a 455 with tripower in my ‘68 Firebird (after my buddy enlightened me that “there’s no substitute for cubic inches”). Everything accept the cam and headers were Pontiac. Also used a turbo 400 with the original 3:90’s and it would absolutely fly.. Id run it to about 6,500 rpms before shifting. The beauty of Pontiac was everything interchanged and made it inexpensive to experiment with…
Can't believe you couldn't talk the guy into putting a turbo on it. Seriously though, this channel is just freaking awesome.
I would like to see Pontiac engines revisited with different cams and the turbo treatment that you usually do.
Richard you know what would be awesome? A turbo Buick 3.8? For me I love the Super Duty cars! And maybe close the video with the motor just sitting there chopping at idle.
Thanks for doing this, I'm a huge Pontiac fan!
389 with a tri power... such a good looking clean setup in one of the most beautiful cars ever made (1966 GTO, I love the taillights on that year).
Cost is a big factor...Pretty sure Rich pays for all these...That being said if he does that it's only fair he does a tripower 390/406 ford.
I agree. I own a all original 66 GTO. Sadly its single 4brl and automatic. Even tho its all original, I am going to swap a 4spd and a tripower on it eventually. Gotta match the song! Haha.
My dad had a 1964 GTO.....389, tri power, 4 speed. I remember that car when I was a little kid.
That is what got me into Pontiacs back in the day.
If we are talking dream engines here, I’ve wanted a Ram Air V top end on a 428 short block since I was prepubescent and read Pete McCarthy’s book. Even today, I’d love to build one and throw in a 69 Judge. Hope to see more pontiac stuff, and thanks for all you do, Richard!
Certainly got my interest, that torque curve is insane! In my imagination it's the halfway point between a dump truck gasoline engine (like an International 304) and the more common LS stuff as far as power curves.
There’s an old build sheet from the 1990’s:
455 w/ -4 6X heads
Lunati 292 Bracket Master II cam and springs. .490/.490 @.050 230/230 adv 292 LSA 109
Comp Magnum 1.52 roller tip rockers
Early factory dual plane intake
Holley #6213 800 cfm spread bore DP.
Dyno results were: 390hp 500tq 😎
Thanks for the video! Did you ever make a video about different timing advance curves? Like the total timing is the same but with different curves or different rpms, when the total timing is reached. Would be interesting to see something like that. Thanks!
Thank you Richard. Nice to see that some guys still run a true Pontiac. I have a 455 (474 stroker) in my 1968 Firebird 400. Way too much motor for that little car.
Agnar Áskelsson never too much motor!!!
Need a couple is 76 mm turbos
Am a Ford guy but I will watch ANYTHING you put together Richard.. I admit.. Im addicted to this stuff now.. Have learned more from ur videos than all the others combined.. Keep em coming.. Well at least the American ones 😊
Going though a nice 455 for personal use in the machine shop this evening. Got it in the vat, cannot wait to see that low end torque.
Nice set up on your Indian. I had no respect for camaros too. My first car was a new 74 sd-455 Trans Am. When the factory exhaust was ditched and a set of hooker headers and thrush mufflers were fit, a super holeshot and b@m transkit installed and the 308 gears were replaced with 3.72's. It ate camaros and corvettes for breakfast. Ran cobsistant 12.20's at National Trail Raceway on street nights in Hebron, Ohio.
The 80psi 455 SD oil pump is the only pump to use in the 421,428,455 cid. The centrifugal force of the large 3.25 mains slings off oil.
Always 40+psi at idle.
Nice video Richard. I have a Pontiac 350 in my 72 Lemans right now, and a 400 sitting next to it for a rebuild. I plan on a 4.25 crank with .035 over. That will make it a 461.
That combo is very close to the 462 in my 78 Formula Firebird I built in '96. Mine has ported 6X heads, flat top pistons and little bigger Comp cam 246- 253 @.050.
Thanks for the info, on the come back have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
Hey Richard, you are the man !! How about a side to side AFR test on a carbureted motor. grrr. it's kicking my butt !
How about a BOP 455 shootout? Start stock add boost(CSU)then manifolds, cams, heads, nitrous, etc. TA Performance has kool Buick stuff. Thanks again for all the videos!
My favorite Pontiac is the Ram Air V Tunnel Port. Never mass produced, it is Pontiacs interpretation of a Ford design ( Ford made a Tunnel Port FE ). Even the port layout was the same as the Ford ( center exhaust ports were not together like the Super Duty or regular D Port ). This thing, if fully developed would have killed everything on the street and track. High torque, hi revs, great sound. Look up the 303ci version in the road race Firebird.
Everybody says all Pontiac blocks are the same not exactly true the 303 was a short deck. I'd love to have one of these things with a pair of turbos they also made them in 360
@@danielsullivan9865 Im a Poncho fan from way back. Came from the delivery room in 65 Grand Prix with a Tri Power, my buddy had a 74 Firebird 400 and a 70 350 Firebird, another one had a 73 Firebird, and the boat of the group was a 65 Bonneville coupe with a 428/4 speed combo. That big girl could hook!
@@danielsullivan9865 366 RAV?
I love Pontiac engines! Thanks Richard!
I love 455 Pontiac's. Long stroke and great power. I ran one for about 35 years in a GTO.
All H-O Racing Specialties parts. It ran like nobody's business. I miss that old car/engine combo.
Yep, those Pontiac manifolds are great. I bet the Q-Jet would have made more power than the Edelbrock carb, too if you put it on the second intake.
I really like the 421 SD with 2x4 and the solid McKellor cams . The 4 speed cars. The test cars for the early GTO really had 421s.
Richard . I’m a retired shop owner I build a almost unheard of Buick Rivera for my friend who passed on . It was a turbo charged Buick Rivera 3.8 front wheel drive Quadra jet with a aluminum factory intake . Turbo charged . The index record was 15.60 ..we got it to run 12.80 with that turbo stock gears just a shift kit with a 3000 stall . . I would love to see something like that .what you could do to it tuning on the dyno . I have the Wally to prove it . By the way we had to lower the boost to only let it run 17.57 so NHRA wouldn’t change the index . Thanks. Vinnie G
Would love to see a “built” boosted Pontiac on the DYNO! Can’t wait to get my Pontiac 496TT (MR1 Block) competed!!!
Thanks for sharing Richard-just finished a similar one for my GTO. 30 over 455 with a Crower 60919 cam (231/240) 470/470 with Rhodes lifters. Not a racer, more of a street car, but man that Pontiac TQ is fun!
I used to run the Crower 60211, 236/242° with a 108° LSA. I got tired of the low vacuum for power brakes. Sounded great. Currently running a Lunati Voodoo with 231/239°, .530"/.550". Better street manners than my Crower. Now I can operate the power brakes without a vacuum pump and didn't feel I lost anything with less duration.
Had the same combo 455 with 6Xs, 60919 in my Ventura and with a 3.23 gear and 215-70-15 Walmart tires it went 7.90s in the 1/8 @ 88 mph.
Thanks 🙏 for sharing this build
Have a 455 well 461 in my 73 grand am now equipped with the torqstorm supercharger and Kaufman heads absolutely BRUTAL torque plus 650 hp a total tire shredder
L67 supercharged gm 3800... Definitely an "other guys motor" (also cheap, easy to find, responds well to mods, turbo compatible!
What people don't know is Joe "Dr. Olds" Mondello also made oil restrictors for the 455 Pontiac, as well as the BBO. My olds 455 keeps oil pressure at 60 pounds with a 9 quart oil pan.
Not surprised on the stock intake. The general consensus is that up to say 500-550hp the iron one works great and you should do a Performer to decrease weight primarily.
The real reason to love Pontiac Engines is their ease in service. They are probably some of the easiest engines to work on ever. There's no spark plugs in the exhaust manifolds and you can do some really cool stuff with the intake such as cut the water free from the intake at the second bolt hole from the front. This lets you change intakes without any coolant work or pulling the dizzy or having to deal with oil leakage potentially. Really cool stuff.
Yes! This one made me happy considering I’m a Pontiac guy. Hope to see you do a power adder on one one day. I have a twin turbo 400 and it’s pretty stupid on the street. Always great videos Richard, thanks.
I'm working on doing that with a 72 Ventura I got for free, and a spare block and heads I have laying around, for science of course. Remote turbos where the gas tank used to be, charge pipe going to a stock filter housing welded shut, sleepy fun. They always show the mild daily driver stuff with 068 sized cams, never the kind of thing the rest of us build.
I've been thinking about doing my 66 GTO the same way what size turbos are you running how much boost how much power and are you doing blow through or EFI
455 pontiac in a lighter car, delivers outstanding street performance.
I am working one of the other guys right now. 8.1 Chevy bb. Mild porting of the heads and major porting of the intake. Scat rotating assembly with Wiesco pistons, also a roller hydraulic cam 550-600 lift and 224/236 lsa115 and a procharger. Looking to maybe put it on the Dyno before the boat
Interesting what Steve said about the timing. I bought a TA with a 455 (1973) and the timing was set at 42. I freaked out and backed it down to 36. It lost some of its throttle response but I was afraid of blowing it up. Maybe I’ll push it back up a little.
Would love to see a Buick 455 or a caddy 500 :)
My buddy & I had a slew of poncho motors: 326, 389, 400 RA III & a 421 SD.
Even an OHC 6. They Run!!
Another bud of ours has a 500" Caddy in a Deuce Coupe.
Insta-smoke!😁 Fun stuff Richard.
Dang Gina!! Haha. Another great video! Thanks again.
Good for impressing your friends with off idle tire roasting. I hated the fact that my 455 Firebird would get beat by 327 Novas.
I like the video format, hanging out in a dyno cell.
Deck it out with heads and intake combo [valves, springs, rods as well] from Butler... maybe do one with a stroker kit on it :-)) Love the old Pontiac motors. Torque-asaurus! :-)
Love to see some nitrous, turbo, supercharger testing on some Pontiac’s. I have bee a Pontiac fan for most of my life!!! One block 287-455. The 265-301 were a short deck version. This to try to stem of the use of the small block Chevy in Pontiac Automobiles.
I love your "Other Guy" Series..👍🇺🇸
Dang Gena .....🤣🤣🤣 I always wanted the 455 had to settle for 350 rocket instead..Good stuff..
Love my 461 Butler set up. crazy on the street. Actually twisted my GTO frame.
I was the second owner of an all original 74 Firebird Formula 455, with the Y code (250hp 455). Punched it 30 over and rebuilt it with 13X heads. That damn thing was a stump puller. Went 13.4 in the quarter on street tires with absolutely egregous 60ft times due to no traction. Miss that car. Loaded with power everything. Handled really well for the times.