With Infamy, Infamy lined up as an immediate post-Covid 19 publication, here's your chance to check out the first of the armies we will be looking at: Imperial Rome.
Thanks Rich! Great to see more content on Infamy Infamy - beginning to get very excited for this release, and glad my pre-emptive Victrix purchases were not far off the mark for what I need to build an EIR list.
Great video. Been working on Roman's and trying to find a decent rule set besides WAB. Why not a PDF first if covid 19 is still hanging around than hard copies. I would like to use the rules for southern front here in NC for Sept. Again great heads up.
Great stuff Rich, I’m pretty there with my stuff, just bits and pieces around the periphery to grab from the staff to paint up. Don’t forget the mention deployment points and what’s needed.
Good video. It answered my questions about the Romans. Germans would be my vote for the next video as I have just ordered a ton of them for this game:) looking forward to seeing what you guys have in store for PATMOCON.
Can’t wait until this comes out. Have you though of presenting Carthaginians? Also maybe offer the book as a PDF download until we’re past this darn virus?? Just food for thought.
Cool! I like the subject but always scared off by the thought of having to cobble up a HUGE army. This oughtta be doable, and let me tweak about with a few different factions.
Very interesting preview.....sold my ancient Romans about thirty years ago, but this makes me think about starting with ancients again 🤔 Manageable numbers this time.
If you've never played them, I highly recommend TFL's rules; they do a really superb job of including battlefield friction as the major component of how combat is going to go, as well as placing emphasis on the difficulties of command and control. They're my group's go-to publisher for WW2 gaming, and I Ain't Been Shot, Mum! is easily my very favorite wargame of all time!
Nice to have a better look at the make-up of a Roman force, looking forward to the Gauls and Britons. Just one thing I'd like to ask; is the frontage of the Barbarian base the same as the 8 man Roman group? And a follow-up; do they have to be the same?
Looks fantastic, can’t wait to preorder! Any chance the Dacians and/or Thracians will make the main rule book? Would also love to see some Iberians/Celtiberians a la the wars with Sertorius.
Hispania? They are too britanocentrist to consider that. You know... a game about guerrilla and romans written by two british? Lets ignore iberians ands make an unbalanced game towards our imaginary highlands resistance
@@N51Sierra actually, the Iberians are too civilised to be covered in this, the first part of the game. This book covers the barbarian tribes of Gaul, Germany and Britain. The Iberians and other western Mediterranean nations will be covered in the second book. Book three will cover the eastern Mediterranean.
@@toofatlardies But why? Cantabrians and Asturic more civilised than gauls and germanics? Sure there were more civilised cities and tribes, but even those used and were famous and excel in that kind of warfare So we have a game about asymmetrical and guerrilla war but the first, longest and most renowned guerrilla warfare is not covered. The first to be invaded and the last to be conquered? No. First book covers gauls and of course the much later "british" tribes. And beg pardon but the game although fun is clearly byased and unbalanced towards barbarians.
@@N51Sierra because the rules are covering the ancient world in geographical segments. The first book was Northern Europe. The second is the western Mediterranean. Iberia is in the western Mediterranean. Interestingly, we have two cohorts of people commenting. Those playing the Romans tell us the barbarians are too strong. Those playing the barbarians say the Romans are too strong. What we have done is moved away from the classic wargaming view of the unbeatable Roman legion to a point where the warfare is asymmetrical. If you don’t play to your strengths, you lose.
I am afraid I am still to see someone saying romans are overpowered in this game while most people I've talked about share the same view of barbarians overpowered. Maybe you wouldlike to check your forum too Other Antiquity skirmish games we all know also depicts not unbeatable romans but are not so heavily byased. Sure I must admit you truly moved away from that wargaming (and historical) concept of invincible roman legions to the most original one of unbeatable barbarians, not counting Uderzo. Please do not get me wrong, I really liked the concept and love the overall idea but I find the rules extremely unbalanced. If we are adding to that recipe the geographical segments starting from Northern Europe for a game trying to depict guerrilla asymmetrical warfare... Kind regards however for your response
anyone know what Rich used for the infantry figures? what size are the round bases? Looks to me 20mm for troops and 25mm for leaders? (or maybe 1p and 2p if I understand are about the same size)
Moving dice with movement stands works not at all for me. At some point in every game, I will pick up at least one of those dice to roll or will move the stand and not the die. I'd blame it on my advancing decrepitude, but I did exactly the same thing at 25. 8-) Fortunately, casualty rings work just fine to maintain that information.
@@toofatlardies, maybe i come from the old school, of get as many figures as you can on the biggest table you can. There are so many skirmish game rule sets these days, that a new commer to the hobby may think thats all thats going on., one or 2 tanks, and 10 men, or 8 vikings 8 saxons and a hut. There appears to be little room for what many of us would call normal wargaming, with maybe a couple of 100 at least figures on each side.
@@OW... It's entirely possible to have a skirmish game with a few hundred figures on a side. This has been the basic philosophy of many GW games for instance. It's also possible to have an operational game (or even a strategic game) with very few figures on a side. (See DBA.) Since your second comment is more about figure numbers, I'll assume that you're really complaining about small games, not skirmish games. Leaving aside the "You're having fun wrong" issue, there are pretty strong reasons to have games with low barriers to entry. After all, getting your friends to pick up a new period or region is much easier if they don't have to spend a thousand dollars/pounds/Euros on figures and then spend two years painting. Further, games that take an hour or two are generally an easier sale, especially for a period of marginal interest for at least some of the players, than games that take 8 hours and are only finished in an argument in the bar/pub afterward. 8-/ And smaller games can definitely act as gateways to larger, more table (and weekend) filling games, too. (Which is a main reason that DBM became as popular as it did.) I've been playing figure wargames for more than 40 years (and cardboard chit wargames for longer than that), and I have my own set of preferences too. But I don't think it's reasonable to characterize anything that I don't want to play as a sad direction for the entire hobby.
@@dougsundseth6904 , tks for the reply Doug. The hobby as i see it is in terminal decline. I can say that i believe with some skill level being in the trade at a serious level since early 1980. I started gaming in the early 1970's maybe 1972.. As a trader and manufacturer, i know full well what "skirmish gaming" can do to the hobby and a business. These days, whether right or wrong there are a myriad of skirmsh game rule sets, readily pushed out onto the circuit. Most if not all of these skirmish rule sets push the minimum amount of figures, suported by usually expensive rule sets and adendums, along with special dice and or markers, and often special scenery. As a trader, i can see what these rule makers/manufacturers are aiming for, it is obvious, cutting costs by cutting the salary take, whether thats good for the industry, i think not, others will disagree. If you can sell an expensive rule book with all the add ons, special dice markers and scenery, all of which you buy in, and then produce a tiny amount of figures, which will take a few minutes to spin out, you have vastly enhanced your profit at the expense of the hobby. And the point i make again, new comers to the hobby are in the main only seeing small scale skirmish gaming, they are not seeing larger games played in the round. I come from the era of WRG 5,6,7th...with 1600 point to 2400 point armies on 6x4 or 8x4 tables. Masses of figures on both sides, supporting a hobby, or supporting the manufactures who cranked out the lead at a serious rate. The rule book, and army lists were not expensive, the idea being to spend your money on the figures. That in the main has gone, died out.. My experience around the convention circuit i would level is more proof, with traders moving on or quitting because they could not make it pay. The normal practice was to attend a convention and stock up with bags of lead, units of 24 or 36, or even 48 figures, see the manufacturer/trader, see whats new and be enticed to maybe start another "army" and i mean army. These days folks are turning up at conventions and buying the odd pack of 8 figures, and maybe one or 2 vehicles. The game being it appears to see how quickly you can get home from the convention, very sad. I also look down the list of traders that are gone, many big names, who have just disappeared or are now a shadow of their former selfs, i put it that its down to not being able to sell the volume of lead required to keep any company growing/profitable. So yes skirmish gaming is here to stay, and it will continue to grow, and the hobby will continue to decline. Its not for me, and i do not think there is any problem with saying that, and letting people know there are other types of games using 100's of figures. I am retired now, and continue to collect at a fair rate, and paint up as much as i can, field large armies, even on a game night, the spectacle is all, massed ranks of troops, minimal scenery the table full...of figures..
The Old Wargamer I don’t think the problems you describe can be laid at the door of TFL. They don’t manufacture any models, so really have no “skin in the game” insofar as quantity of lead purchased by those who play their rules is concerned. Nor do they sell any dice/ tokens which are essential to play their games (yes, they sell branded dice, etc, but one doesn’t have to buy them as standard D6s will do just fine and none of their games are designed to work only with their tokens). Their rules work across multiple sizes of action, from platoon level with Chain of Command to Company+ level in I Ain’t Been Shot mum in WW2. In the black powder era, their Sharp Practice rules can work with 50 to 200 figures per side without difficulty. Added to that, all of their rules are reasonably priced (and often on sale - recent sales to encourage people to stay indoors and comply with the COVID-19 lockdown being particularly decent steps on their part). They’re also not as aggressive as some other companies on the IP side, actively encouraging their players to write expansions/ campaigns/ new army lists for the community to use. Whilst the concerns you voice may have some merit, pick a better target for your ire next time please.
I imagine a TooFatLardies cross-system game advancing through the ages like a tabletop Sid Meier's Civilization.
Thanks Rich! Great to see more content on Infamy Infamy - beginning to get very excited for this release, and glad my pre-emptive Victrix purchases were not far off the mark for what I need to build an EIR list.
Great video. Been working on Roman's and trying to find a decent rule set besides WAB. Why not a PDF first if covid 19 is still hanging around than hard copies. I would like to use the rules for southern front here in NC for Sept. Again great heads up.
Weirdest episode of The Sweeney I’ve ever seen. Every time I hear the Thames theme it’s Benny Hill or The Sweeney that comes to mind.
Morecambe and Wise for me
Wasn't it for The Professionals as well?
Great stuff Rich, I’m pretty there with my stuff, just bits and pieces around the periphery to grab from the staff to paint up. Don’t forget the mention deployment points and what’s needed.
Will do mate. That's planned for the next video.
Great stuff here, very motivating to get my building and painting going. Thank you for the well done overview.
Looking forward to the release of this!!
Fantastic Rich. Look forward to more videos. This game looks brilliant and I really like the similarities to SP. You chaps take care as well.
Good video. It answered my questions about the Romans. Germans would be my vote for the next video as I have just ordered a ton of them for this game:) looking forward to seeing what you guys have in store for PATMOCON.
Yeah, I think Germans will be the next one.
Great video Richard, you seem to have put a lot of depth into the forces mate
Can’t wait until this comes out. Have you though of presenting Carthaginians? Also maybe offer the book as a PDF download until we’re past this darn virus?? Just food for thought.
Carthaginians will be in the first supplement.
@@toofatlardies Great to hear. Is there any place I can pre order your rules???
Cool!
I like the subject but always scared off by the thought of having to cobble up a HUGE army. This oughtta be doable, and let me tweak about with a few different factions.
Super excited for this game! Now i have to decide caeserian or imperial romans, probably whatever i can get my hands on for cheap
Look forward to gaming this down at our local club. I've forwarded the link to them. Great stuff!
Thanks Richard, very useful intro video to Early Imperial Romans. Are you planning to do anything on tactics too?
excellent! Can't wait! main Roman force almost complete just need some gladiators and auxiliaries
Gladiators? whaaaat the heck Travis
Martin Fraser Thats right! 😂
Very interesting preview.....sold my ancient Romans about thirty years ago, but this makes me think about starting with ancients again 🤔
Manageable numbers this time.
Really enjoyed this, only came across this whilst searching and looking for something interesting,
If you've never played them, I highly recommend TFL's rules; they do a really superb job of including battlefield friction as the major component of how combat is going to go, as well as placing emphasis on the difficulties of command and control.
They're my group's go-to publisher for WW2 gaming, and I Ain't Been Shot, Mum! is easily my very favorite wargame of all time!
Bravo sounds like a fantastic set of rules that will make ancient wargaming great. Stay safe!
Thank heavens , now I know what to do with a pile of Caesarian romans I acquired a few years ago. All hail the gods of lard
Nice to have a better look at the make-up of a Roman force, looking forward to the Gauls and Britons. Just one thing I'd like to ask; is the frontage of the Barbarian base the same as the 8 man Roman group? And a follow-up; do they have to be the same?
We have been playing with them as the same width but they don't have to be.
Wow, have all those painted except for mounted troops, easily corrected. Now to determine what enemy to purchase !
I am excited about these rules. Thanks for the tease. Do you have an ETA on delivery?
ASAP after the Lurgie has gone
Likes really interesting. What miniatures are you using?
Chiefly Foundry. They are superb sculpts with a great extensive range.
toofatlardies thanks! Have to look into those.
Looks fantastic, can’t wait to preorder! Any chance the Dacians and/or Thracians will make the main rule book? Would also love to see some Iberians/Celtiberians a la the wars with Sertorius.
Hispania? They are too britanocentrist to consider that. You know... a game about guerrilla and romans written by two british? Lets ignore iberians ands make an unbalanced game towards our imaginary highlands resistance
@@N51Sierra actually, the Iberians are too civilised to be covered in this, the first part of the game. This book covers the barbarian tribes of Gaul, Germany and Britain. The Iberians and other western Mediterranean nations will be covered in the second book. Book three will cover the eastern Mediterranean.
@@toofatlardies But why? Cantabrians and Asturic more civilised than gauls and germanics? Sure there were more civilised cities and tribes, but even those used and were famous and excel in that kind of warfare
So we have a game about asymmetrical and guerrilla war but the first, longest and most renowned guerrilla warfare is not covered.
The first to be invaded and the last to be conquered? No. First book covers gauls and of course the much later "british" tribes. And beg pardon but the game although fun is clearly byased and unbalanced towards barbarians.
@@N51Sierra because the rules are covering the ancient world in geographical segments. The first book was Northern Europe. The second is the western Mediterranean. Iberia is in the western Mediterranean.
Interestingly, we have two cohorts of people commenting. Those playing the Romans tell us the barbarians are too strong. Those playing the barbarians say the Romans are too strong. What we have done is moved away from the classic wargaming view of the unbeatable Roman legion to a point where the warfare is asymmetrical. If you don’t play to your strengths, you lose.
I am afraid I am still to see someone saying romans are overpowered in this game while most people I've talked about share the same view of barbarians overpowered.
Maybe you wouldlike to check your forum too
Other Antiquity skirmish games we all know also depicts not unbeatable romans but are not so heavily byased.
Sure I must admit you truly moved away from that wargaming (and historical) concept of invincible roman legions to the most original one of unbeatable barbarians, not counting Uderzo.
Please do not get me wrong, I really liked the concept and love the overall idea but I find the rules extremely unbalanced.
If we are adding to that recipe the geographical segments starting from Northern Europe for a game trying to depict guerrilla asymmetrical warfare...
Kind regards however for your response
Infamy Infamy may get me dipping my toes in the forests of Germania. Stay safe everybody.
How many troops and what size base for Scorpions??
look forward to this coming out
Cheers Rich some great info there. Really looking forward to the rules.
Gauls next please Rich
anyone know what Rich used for the infantry figures? what size are the round bases? Looks to me 20mm for troops and 25mm for leaders? (or maybe 1p and 2p if I understand are about the same size)
I’m excited about Infamy Infamy. Will the rules eventually cover Republican Romans and Late Romans too? Cheers.
G'day mate! YEs to the Republic. Caesaring Romans nwill be in the main rules. The first supplement will cover the Third Punic Wars
Moving dice with movement stands works not at all for me. At some point in every game, I will pick up at least one of those dice to roll or will move the stand and not the die. I'd blame it on my advancing decrepitude, but I did exactly the same thing at 25. 8-)
Fortunately, casualty rings work just fine to maintain that information.
Really love infamy
Thanks!
what base size are these on? 20mm or 25mm?
UK pennies, which is about 20mm. Leaders on UK 2 penny pieces, around 25mm
@@toofatlardies Awesome, thank you!!
I'm sold.
Great, can not wait. Have Gauls!
NOT a Doctor?
I thought you were Dr of the rules!
Doctor Fun!
You lost me at "skirmish rules" so sad this is the way wargaming is going....
The Old Wargamer if I’m honest, I find your comment somewhat odd. Surely there is room in the hobby for games of all sizes and scales?
@@toofatlardies, maybe i come from the old school, of get as many figures as you can on the biggest table you can. There are so many skirmish game rule sets these days, that a new commer to the hobby may think thats all thats going on., one or 2 tanks, and 10 men, or 8 vikings 8 saxons and a hut. There appears to be little room for what many of us would call normal wargaming, with maybe a couple of 100 at least figures on each side.
@@OW... It's entirely possible to have a skirmish game with a few hundred figures on a side. This has been the basic philosophy of many GW games for instance. It's also possible to have an operational game (or even a strategic game) with very few figures on a side. (See DBA.) Since your second comment is more about figure numbers, I'll assume that you're really complaining about small games, not skirmish games.
Leaving aside the "You're having fun wrong" issue, there are pretty strong reasons to have games with low barriers to entry. After all, getting your friends to pick up a new period or region is much easier if they don't have to spend a thousand dollars/pounds/Euros on figures and then spend two years painting.
Further, games that take an hour or two are generally an easier sale, especially for a period of marginal interest for at least some of the players, than games that take 8 hours and are only finished in an argument in the bar/pub afterward. 8-/
And smaller games can definitely act as gateways to larger, more table (and weekend) filling games, too. (Which is a main reason that DBM became as popular as it did.)
I've been playing figure wargames for more than 40 years (and cardboard chit wargames for longer than that), and I have my own set of preferences too. But I don't think it's reasonable to characterize anything that I don't want to play as a sad direction for the entire hobby.
@@dougsundseth6904 , tks for the reply Doug. The hobby as i see it is in terminal decline. I can say that i believe with some skill level being in the trade at a serious level since early 1980. I started gaming in the early 1970's maybe 1972..
As a trader and manufacturer, i know full well what "skirmish gaming" can do to the hobby and a business. These days, whether right or wrong there are a myriad of skirmsh game rule sets, readily pushed out onto the circuit. Most if not all of these skirmish rule sets push the minimum amount of figures, suported by usually expensive rule sets and adendums, along with special dice and or markers, and often special scenery. As a trader, i can see what these rule makers/manufacturers are aiming for, it is obvious, cutting costs by cutting the salary take, whether thats good for the industry, i think not, others will disagree. If you can sell an expensive rule book with all the add ons, special dice markers and scenery, all of which you buy in, and then produce a tiny amount of figures, which will take a few minutes to spin out, you have vastly enhanced your profit at the expense of the hobby. And the point i make again, new comers to the hobby are in the main only seeing small scale skirmish gaming, they are not seeing larger games played in the round. I come from the era of WRG 5,6,7th...with 1600 point to 2400 point armies on 6x4 or 8x4 tables. Masses of figures on both sides, supporting a hobby, or supporting the manufactures who cranked out the lead at a serious rate. The rule book, and army lists were not expensive, the idea being to spend your money on the figures. That in the main has gone, died out.. My experience around the convention circuit i would level is more proof, with traders moving on or quitting because they could not make it pay. The normal practice was to attend a convention and stock up with bags of lead, units of 24 or 36, or even 48 figures, see the manufacturer/trader, see whats new and be enticed to maybe start another "army" and i mean army. These days folks are turning up at conventions and buying the odd pack of 8 figures, and maybe one or 2 vehicles. The game being it appears to see how quickly you can get home from the convention, very sad.
I also look down the list of traders that are gone, many big names, who have just disappeared or are now a shadow of their former selfs, i put it that its down to not being able to sell the volume of lead required to keep any company growing/profitable. So yes skirmish gaming is here to stay, and it will continue to grow, and the hobby will continue to decline. Its not for me, and i do not think there is any problem with saying that, and letting people know there are other types of games using 100's of figures. I am retired now, and continue to collect at a fair rate, and paint up as much as i can, field large armies, even on a game night, the spectacle is all, massed ranks of troops, minimal scenery the table full...of figures..
The Old Wargamer I don’t think the problems you describe can be laid at the door of TFL. They don’t manufacture any models, so really have no “skin in the game” insofar as quantity of lead purchased by those who play their rules is concerned. Nor do they sell any dice/ tokens which are essential to play their games (yes, they sell branded dice, etc, but one doesn’t have to buy them as standard D6s will do just fine and none of their games are designed to work only with their tokens). Their rules work across multiple sizes of action, from platoon level with Chain of Command to Company+ level in I Ain’t Been Shot mum in WW2. In the black powder era, their Sharp Practice rules can work with 50 to 200 figures per side without difficulty. Added to that, all of their rules are reasonably priced (and often on sale - recent sales to encourage people to stay indoors and comply with the COVID-19 lockdown being particularly decent steps on their part). They’re also not as aggressive as some other companies on the IP side, actively encouraging their players to write expansions/ campaigns/ new army lists for the community to use. Whilst the concerns you voice may have some merit, pick a better target for your ire next time please.