The Phantom of the Opera: Musical Hell Review #10 (RE-RE-POST)
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2015
- Original air date: January 7, 2013
He's here, the Phantom of the Opera--and I'm giving him what for!
(Apologies for the re-post, but the RUclips content bots became problematic again. If the problem persists, I may just post a link to the Zippcast video, which can be seen here:
www.zippcast.com/video/b920900...)
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Развлечения
I think Minnie Driver is the only one who knows she’s in a Joel Schumacher movie, and so she just has fun with the role
And it’s insulting that she’s the only one dubbed because Minnie has a strong singing voice. Emmy was passable, Patrick Wilson isn’t too bad and I’m not even touching what was done to the Phantom
@@LucyLioness100 Minnie Driver was dubbed because she's an Alto and La Carlotta is a Soprano. :)
I
She was the funniest actress in Disney's adaptation of _Tarzan._
And Jennifer Aniston
I just assumed the Phantom taking Piangi's place was done with the rule of Shakespeare - if you're wearing a hat you are considered "in disguise."
InkHeart17 Sooooo true. You can also be an entirely different sex by wearing pants.
The Phantom posing as Piangi was supposed to be more believable - they should have at least been similar height - but the movie badly casted them both AND they didn't even try to have it make sense.
Actually, in the play, Piangi's costume is a big-ass cloak that can disguise the wearer's shape and weight, and cover his face. Think Ghost of Christmas Future-look.
The movie glossed over that part
I mean how can anyone not notice that Phantom has a completely different voice than Piangi like bruh are the people in the musical that ignorant ?(I mean I get if Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote it like that but like think logically.)
On top of the Phantom and Piangi supposed to being similar height and weight, if you listen to the 25th anniversary recording, Ramin Karimloo attempts an Italian accent while he's singing to Christine. This helps PoNR make more sense as well.
Butler: Let your mind-
"And that's enough of that."
That made a laugh so hard
The line where the narrator brought up vampires--I lost it. Recently, an author published Roseblood--which is a phantom of the opera story but this time the Phantom is a vampire (a song vampire) and I'm dead.
@@mg3873 I'm actually more interested in reading that than watching this shitty movie.
"Well, I wanted to just stab him at the graveyard, but NOOOOOOO"
I lost it :D
I don't often laugh at my own jokes, but that one makes me giggle.
The worst part is how they butchered the scene compared to the play. I cover this in another comment, but it's one of my favorite scenes in the play and nasty Schumacher, it ruins it, precious...
What got me was "Horrified, or maybe stumped by a very hard math problem".
I think this movie was in dire need to Tim Burton for the Masquerade scene. I would have LOVED to see what macabre loveliness that could have been. As for Butler's singing, I have heard him sing before in How to Train Your Dragon 2 and it was much easier on the ears than this.
Different styles, I guess. He can sign to a point (as you mentioned above), but just not in the right style that was required for this part.
Chocobo0Scribe imagine if they got a different director for each musical number. So Tim burton for masquerade, who’d your other picks be??
I honestly believe Tim Burton should have directed the POTO movie, in my opinion he would have done a better job than Joel Schumacher (excluding the fact he mostly casts Johnny Depp who I don't think would be the right choice to play Erik). Burton has a pretty good grasp on how to translate musicals well to screen (I know not everybody likes his rendition of Sweeney Todd, but I have seen it on stage and the movie isn't that far off. Plus he's created successful musical-based movies). If you've ever seen Burton's films Big FIsh or Big Eyes, it also shows he's quite adept at making films look "vibrant" and "pretty" and he could have applied this brilliantly to POTO.
Schumacher really missed an opportunity to show the contrast between Christine/Raoul's "light and vibrant" world versus the Phantom's "dark and gothic" world, which is disappointing. The POTO movie also has a lot of weak framing when compared to the musical and I just don't understand why ALW was so insistent on having Schumacher direct the movie. Don't get me wrong, the POTO movie has a place in my heart because I first saw it when I was much younger and I had never seen phantom live at that point but compared to the stage musical it really doesn't hold a candle. I also don't want to put Schumacher down because he does have talent, Lost Boys is an awesome movie and it's a shame people only remember him for Batman, but ALW should have found a director with more experience translating musicals to movie format.
Maybe Butler sounded better in "The Dancing And The Dreaming" because he was singing in his natural Scottish accent?
Either Tim Burton, Sam Raimi or Guillermo Del Toro.
This movie... I have an awkward relationship with this movie. This is the film that introduced me not just to The Phantom of the Opera story, this is also the film that made me into a Phan (I was introduced to the musical in my music class so I can't give it that credit). However, after seeing the show and varying Phantom movies, I acknowledge this film is bad. If I want a better film version of this musical, I just watch the 25th Anniversary show. Yet I can't hate it. Because this movie introduced me to Phantom, it has a soft spot in my heart. But that doesn't mean I don't make fun of it from time to time.
Ashley L White
The same for me.
This film introduced me to the musical. I will always be grateful for that, but I have fallen out of love with this film. I go to either the 25th anniversary or one of my many copies of the musical recordings.
I get what you mean. For me the only thing I had seen of the movie was the think of me song, and then I watched the 30th anniversary show, and then the movie. I initially just sort of brushed through the movie without paying any special attention, and I liked it, for the visuals mainly. But yeah, when I saw the bad Gérard Butler singing moments, I was like...nope...looking deeper has made me realise that it's not a good adaptation, although I still give props for the visuals...
Same
This was the musical that deepened my love for musical theatre. If it wasn't for this musical, i never would've never been a fan other musicals like Hamilton, Be More Chill, or Chicago.
This movie still holds a special place in my musical-loving heart but if someone wants to watch the musical, I'll just throw them the 25th anniversary. Because A) it has better voices, B) that's only version where Love Never Dies is somewhat justified
Same. I wanted to watch the stage show before watching this movie, but wound up watching the movie three years before watching the stage show for the first time.
Same, i had crush on gerald's phantom until i saw ramin, it is a special movie for me but it just not a good phantom of the opera.
The Royal Albert Hall version is the definitive version in my opinion. Everytime someone wants to watch this movie I'm like "No! Let me show you the *REAL* Phantom of the Opera!"
Thats because thats actual show filmed on stage. Its thereal show and the real thing.
Its only shortcoming is the absence of the falling chandelier but it's the venue's fault. But Ramin, Hadley, Sierra make up for that
Oliver Delica I was about to comment this.Looks like a fellow intelectual beat me to it.
The chandelier was a massive disappointment though. I get that it was a limitation of the venue, but I've seen Phantom live and the chandelier drop is SO GOOD when done right.
I'm the same way. I used to LOVE the movie, but that was because I hadn't seen the stage show first. Once I did, it was a night and day difference.
I also got a chance to check out the 25th anniversary shortly after I saw the show on stage for the first time. I even tried showing my mom that better version, and for some reason she STILL prefers the movie! She still prefers Gerard Butler's much inferior voice, and doesn't think his lack of deformity is that big of a deal just because he's so good looking. Explaining that it undermines the point of the Phantom's character doesn't mean anything to her.
In addition to what you've said about Emmy Rossum, I'd like to add that her voice is still maturing at 16. There is a reason the role of Christine is often played by actresses in their mid to late 20's up through their 30's. If I remember right, vocal chords don't finish maturing until your 20's. The role of Christine is easily one of (if not the) the most difficult roles in musical theater to the point they have more than one actress playing the role and the high note in the title note is prerecorded so the actresses don't strain their voice. Granted, this is a movie and some leeway can be given but due to her age, she was risking destroying her voice.
janeyrevanescence12 I don't understand why people use the "16 years old" thing as a f***ing excuse.
Number One: Judy Garland at 13 or 14 years old was already a phenomenal vocalist. Jackie Evancho took the world by storm at 9 or 11 years old, and she was incredible. Lilla Crawford was around 12 when she did Into the Woods. Auli'i Cravalho is 16, and she sounds incredible. Charlotte Church at 12 years old was phenomenal. Anna Kendrick was fantastic on Broadway at 13 years old. Elizabeth Gillies and Ariana Grande were excellent on Broadway at 15. Julie Andrews was absolutely amazing at 12 years old. Rossum has no excuse.
Number Two: I wouldn't care if Emmy was 14, 12, or even 10. If she's so far in her career that she's playing CHRISTINE DAAE on screen, she better f***ing know what she's doing. Which she obviously doesn't, considering her terrible vocals and her one perpetual face throughout the whole film.
People need to stop making excuses for Emmy Rossum's godawful casting, because it's ridiculous. There is no excuse.
Not many of those other girls are operatic sopranos though, to be fair
Also in the book she was in her 20's. Plus even back then, a 16 year would not given a leading role in an opera, for obvious reasons.
To play Christine, the actress has to be able to sing the high note once. It's recorded and used each performance
Max Lim but in Emmy's defence, she was quite good for doing a hard role like Christine at that age. How many of those girls could pull off half the notes that Christine sings? Though, Emmy's singing wasn't live, but she still wasn't half-bad regardless.
The stage version of The Point of No Return actually made slightly more sense--the Nazgul costume Erik wears helps to disguise (at least somewhat) that it's him, and Ramin at least uses an Italian accent to further emulate Piangi. The movie version makes no sense at all, though the film is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me simply because it's gorgeous to look at.
+YatzSliversword Yeah, the cloak does help suspend disbelief a little more, but it's still odd no matter how you look at it.
+Musical Hell I don't know why I be upset if my family s lagged phantom off but you do it with style and gerad cracks me up with his bad voice ☺
+Musical Hell also the guy who plays the composer was in a kool sixties film " a taste of honey", the guy who played the orginial manager was in one of the best British films" four weddings and a funeral "ironically patrick wilson was in the stage version of another British film "the full monty gerad butler not a great singer but was so good in "p.s I love you I forgive him this emmy ross mm zzzzz😀
true but that is not the point of the movie!
+Musical Hell I thought that she worked it out midway through or so but went along cause...seductive phantom voice?
The thing that irks me most about this movie isn't the singing, that, I actually didn't mind, but the way they handled the deformity.With all of Hollywood's makeup expertise, they could have easily given him a death's head, or at least made him look like Ramin in the 25th anniversary, which is vastly superior to this no matter how you look at it (okay, except for the visuals).
But NO, they just had to turn him into some sexy-romance creature. In fact, what I see in this movie doesn't even qualify as a Phantom deformity. In fact, of all of the well known Phantom adaptations, this is the weakest of all of the deformities (1998 doesn't even count [he wasn't even deformed!])
+Phantom Critic Oh my god, yes! They could have gone full Leroux if they'd wanted, but noooo, Erik has to be pretty, no matter how nonsensical that is.
+Phantom Critic As much as this movie is a guilty pleasure for me, even I agree that the make-up job for the Phantom is a joke. Seriously, a sunburned face?! That's it!? Granted, I accepted it when I was younger (about 13-14) because I was really traumatized by the stage makeup when I saw Phantom as a 10-11 year-old! I mean, I was so scared, I kept a program up to my face, kinda missing out on the finale. Of course, I'm a lot more mature now to handle it, so you could say the 2004 film was baby steps for me. If you really want a scary Phantom face, watch the classic 1925 silent film version with Lon Chaney. That's what I call Phantom makeup.
Apparently Butler didn't even wear the makeup the majority of the time because it was irritating him. Lon Chaney put himself through intense agony and even physically altered his own face for his deformity make up, and this was back in 1925!
Hell, they could've recreated Lon Chaney's makeup. They wouldn't have to restrict the mask to one side of Erik's face because a microphone wouldn't be in the way and Gerry wouldn't have to act to the back row of a theater!
@@etcetera1995 I tramtized by Butlers makeup has a kid but mind you that was the first so called gruesome I saw on the film now I realize how tame it is compared to the stage version and iconic Chaney film.
I would love Guillermo del Toro to direct a new film version of this musical, but then again I would love Guillermo del Toro to direct everything.
He made an amazing Pinocchio I think he’ll make an amazing The Phantom of the Opera. YOU’RE A GENIUS!!!
Honestly, this movie is a huge guilty pleasure for me. I loved it as a teenager and now that I'm older I can definitely see the flaws, but it got me into all things Phantom-related, which opened a lot of doors for me, so I can't hate it.
The "deformity," however, is an unforgivable offense. Tom Hiddleston looked more Phantom-like in the end of Crimson Peak, for fuck's sake!
+Kitty Grimm Same. Objectively, I know this movie has A LOT of problems, but I still enjoy watching it. x.x
Oh my god. True.
Kitty Grimm das
Why didn't they just do the same makeup as the stage show? It's supposed to just be a cinematic version. What's the point of altering it?
Same deal for me. Except I got into it when I was a kid. I was OBSESSED with this movie and even made games with my friend off of it. Now that's a real friendship right there, going through the same obsessions together :P But yes, now that I'm older I can see how flawed it is and laugh at it but I can't hate it either, it holds way too much nostalgic value for me.
The irony is, Butler sings a very touching duet in How to Train Your Dragon 2 and he's playing a dragon riding viking!
22:49 "Or force him to participate in some weird bondage, slash fic thing."
Because of this line, I actually went to look up if there was such a fic.
There is, a lot more than I thought there would be.
Phantom/Raoul FoeYay is surprisingly popular. Or maybe not, considering that the Internet is Dark and Full of Terrors.
I'm not even that surprised....and I've seen WILDER pairings on Fanfiction.net and AO3!! along with occasionally Wattpad....enter those domains at your own risk!
Wanna know something hilarious about Gerard Butler in this movie? Andrew Lloyd Webber actually wanted him BECAUSE he sang like shit. Here's the actual quote from him: "We needed somebody who has a bit of rock and roll sensibility in him. He's got to be a bit rough, a bit dangerous; not a conventional singer. Christine is attracted to the Phantom because he's the right side of danger."
There is so much wrong with that quote I don't even know where to begin...
Despite the fact that you can have some middle ground and get a nonconventional singer who can actually, you know, sing.
I'm gonna get shit on for this, but here I go: I actually don't mind Gerard Butler's voice as the Phantom. Despite not being great, I can still listen to him sing for ages. I mean, it's no Michael Crawford or Ramin Karimloo, but I definitely like him a lot. In my defense, if you want to hear a bad Phantom, check Ben Lewis in Love Never Dies. Can't stand him!
+That Kid Is Missing I totally agree with you
examples of such singers: Weird Al Yankovich. David Bowie. Anyone in Queen. that's just off the top of my head.
"Put on her morning cleavage" and "lap 342 around the opera house" had me in stitches. This is a riot!
The execution of 'The Point of No Return' is my biggest issue about the movie. The sexiness of it all can't make up for the absence of tension (she knows it's the Phantom right away) or consistency (she should be afraid). I watched the 25th anniversary show shortly after and this part just blew my mind. Far, FAR better! My favorite part in fact.
25th anniversary is the best
Point of No Return in the movie is so insulting to the original. The set looks like a cheap Halloween funhouse gone wrong, the lighting like every other shot looks washed out, the costumes are dull and lackluster (stage show Aminta dress is my absolute favorite of Christine's costumes so this especially bothers me). And as much as yeah in the musical we know it's the phantom under the giant cloak it's a better disguise than Zorro crossed with Fabio that we see in the movie. And as only Christine would really recognize the Phantoms distinct tenor even with the cloak it adds more suspense as with Erik being covered head to toe neither Raoul or the cops would have a clear sign it's the Phantom. And then we just go ahead and chuck that suspense of disbelief out the window in the movie. I adore Phantom of the Opera to death, everything else i truly do-except for the rat movie. But Ugh I haaaaate this movie.
@@traillbit It's sad, but thanks to Lindsay Ellis' two-part Phantom special I do know what you're referring to by "the rat movie." I thoroughly wish I didn't. Agree with pretty much all your thoughts on the costumes!
@@MortMe0430 Maria Bjornson was an absolute genius in her costume designs. Each one had it's own unique beauty. Like if you arnt comparing to movie costumes to anything they're passable but this movie targets alot of people that have seen the musical so it's almost impossible not to compare. There's just so much potential this movie had really
EXACTLY!!! Like earlier in the movie she was frightened but was ok with him on stage like huh???
Never appreciated Italian dubbing more than for THIS movie (they had professional singers dub this, sparing us from the moocow singing from Butler).
The same over here. This is the first time, I hear the songs from the movie, not in the dubbed German version.
But I think, Gerald butler has given the phantom a new scary perspective. He didn't try to scare with his face, but with his voice hehe
I'm learning Italian right now, and it's going to be a f*cking joy when I get around to watching it with the dub on. Thank you so much for introducing me to it
Ooh I gotta dig out my old DVD and watch that. PotO in a different language. Brilliant!
I never watched the whole movie but I have to say that "Phantom of the opera"/ the title song in italian was sooo much better. I'd pick the Italian Phantom and Christine any day
I think the biggest sin of all is that Ramin Karimloo (25th anniversary phantom and overall amazing phantom) was cast as the dead dad who has an appearance as a picture frame !!
I know right?! They should've casted him as the Phantom in this movie! Or at the very least, had Ramin dub over Gerald's singing like they did with Minnie Driver.
I remember when Entertainment Weekly compared Gerard Butler's singing in this movie to "meatloaf stuffed with too much garlic". Never heard him referred to as mayonnaise.
I think the only reason people like this movie is because they have an emotional attatchment to it- it was probably a lot of people’s first introduction to phantom, so they can’t quite bring themselves to admit that its just bad. Which is understandable.
The stage production does a little better job at showing why they chose Christine to audition for the fill-in for Carlotta. Meg was practically dragging Christine across the stage like an excited supportive friend, and Madame Giry was very persuasive and much more commanding when she said “let her sing for you. She has been well taught.”
Sierra Boggess is a MUCH better Christine!!!! And Ramin Karmiloo is SO MUCH better!!! Hadley Fraser is also an AMAZING Raoul!!! Basically what I'm saying is The Royal Albert Hall version is BEST VERSION! Please don't take this to hard, this are just my OPINIONS!
nah pretty sure those are facts
Amen ✌
Ramin just throws hissy fits as the phantom
@@brattenhugo5643 Well yeah, the character while at the same time as being intimidating, foreboding is meant to be childish when it comes to emotion. He's been neglected and abused and doesn't know how to treat people or how to act properly. I personally think he did a wonderful job with his portrayal of the character
As someone without access to this version of the musical, what makes you say that?
I still love this movie despite its faults. Also, I thought Butler could sing, but he seriously needed some training.
Shenny4everTBBT Yeah, it's also kind of a guilty pleasure for me too. I agree with some of the sins listed out in this video (especially the underwhelming disfigurement makeup), but I still enjoy it.
Same, I can't deny how much I love Emmy and Gerard even tho I know their not the best on a technical level
I actually could never understand much of the lyrics in this. It took the 25th anniversary version where they actually sang it clearly enough for me to hear. Though "Prima Donna" is still pretty incomprehensible in places.
+Jedi Marhwini Watch it with subtitles. It will make things easier.
Yeah but Prima Dona has like 3 diferent lyrics at the same time, I still don't know what the managers sing past the first part lol
At least Patrick Wilson was okay in his role, right?!
I thought he was awesome!
I think he did perfect in the role. And, add in the fact that he is a Broadway actor, so he knows how to play his roles perfectly.
Liz Harper: Re- Imagination ikr he was trying way to hard for this shit show
He was given weak writing and direction. I actually hated how he was presented here, especially compared with the stage version from the 25th anniversary performance (whose name escapes me). Sure, he was kind of a dick, but at least he had some charm, charisma, and power behind the role. AND ACTUALLY SANG ALL HIS LINES.
damn you, Schumacher.
Joseph Thomas Whiting i found him zzz sorry nodded off😃
"Mild allergic reaction" Haha that was funny! I agree with that. I will never get over how much it bothered me that they talk the lyrics instead of singing them it's like they are quoting emily dickinson. Anyway good review!
+Amber Sloat Yes. He needs a steroid cream, not a mask.
Or an eyepatch.
Amber Sloat Yeah. It isn't as bad in Les Mis as it is here.
The casting of Emmy Rossum is an utterly tone deaf choice (in more ways than one). Not only is her voice completely inadequate, but her extreme youth works against her. Yes, Christine is a teenager, but onscreen, when an actual teenager plays her, and all these 30-something men are lusting over her, well, guess what? It's kinda icky! And if they absolutely had to cast Rossum, couldn't they have found someone closer to her in age to play Raoul? Patrick Wilson (even though he's one of the few good things in this movie, IMO) is 13 years older than Rossum! It just looks... weird.
6:24... Wait, why is Christine reading by candlelight? It's 1870, they had gas and/or oil lamps back then! What is this, "Little House on the Prairie"? The Paris Opera House can't spring for a decent lighting apparatus for the leading lady's dressing room?! And all those candles and all those flowers are a very attractive fire hazard...
9:57-10:12... Only Joel Schumacher could botch one of the most iconic scenes in fiction. Some people defend the first part of this scene as a "tender moment" and I'm sorry, but it isn't supposed to be! Remember, Christine only officially met the Phantom hours ago, she shouldn't be this lovey-dovey over him! I like how it's done in the Lon Chaney version; she's curious but there's also a hint of wanting to regain control in this bizarre situation. And isolated, anti-social Erik isn't used to people touching him; I don't care how obsessed he is with Christine, he'd be startled if she touched him, even gently! The fact that they're acting like a couple before she un-masks him makes no sense and only obliterates the tension we desperately need for this moment. I get the feeling Schumacher is part of the rabid Erik/Christine fanbase and channeled that into this scene, which not only ruins it, but tosses all logic out the window.
13:47... In fairness, I personally think Patrick Wilson sells the hell out this song (it's actually one my favorites from "PotO"). Rossum does... ok, I guess, but if they'd gotten a stronger vocalist, this duet would be pretty damn masterful. By the way, have you heard the version by Josh Groban and Kelly Clarkson? You wouldn't think it would work, but I think it does. :)
elizabetheowynbelle bfff#@$
if they really wanted to sell the rock and roll voice for the phantom, they should have got David Bowie to do it. oh if only.
To speak to your first point, in the book Christine is 16, Raoul is 21, and the age of the Phantom is unknown but it is implied he could be anywhere from 50-70 years old. He is old enough to be believable as Christine’s father, remember she thinks that he IS her father’s angel. That is part of the horror of it: the Phantom is actually a pedophile. It’s not intended to be romantic, the age difference SHOULD feel creepy. But yeah...in this film they just play it off as romantic...
@@emilyjeanine1159 WHERE in the book is said that Christine is 16?
She and Raoul are the same age, or very close. Like, Raoul is 21, and she is 20 or so.
And yes, at the age of 16 she couldn't sing on stage as a primadonna. Her voice wouldn't pull it. It just doesn't work this way. And no Phantom can change that.
Sorry, but i just hate this misconception amongst the Phantom fandom. Nowhere is said that Christine is 16 and still people continue to believe that.
(And my english is bad, i know, sorry about this too, but i'm not native speaker. Hope that my comment is understandable)
@@emilyjeanine1159 also, in the book Phantom is surely creepy as hell, and not only on the looks, but he's not a pedo.
He meets Christine when she is already an adult, so no child molesting is implied.
They still divided by a pretty big age gap, that's true, but it is not so gross, as if she was a teen, especially considering that in 19 century it was normal when woman age 18 was married to a man age 50. (But with the Phantom the main problem is not in his age, and even not in his face, but in his psychic condition, which is pretty bad, so i am still team Raoul when it comes to long term relationships)
But if i was to speak of the movie, where actress playing Christine is literally a teen at the point and DO NOT look like a fully grown adult... well, even if in the movie they do not tell us her exact age, Phantom's "love" looks even creepier then in the book, lol.
And in the movie, Phantom legit look like a pedo. And I don't like it.
"Skeletor, the Gay Blade"
Okay, bad look for the Phantom in Masquerade but DEFINITELY a great idea for my next Halloween costume.
I think my least favorite thing about the movie is "Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again". They turned it into a sappy ballad about Christine's general sadness around the death of her father and that's not what it is. It's her feeling absolutely helpless in her situation. Raoul claims he can protect her but she knows he can't. She feels unsafe wherever she goes and she's longing for the one person in her life she felt truly safe and protected with. Her father. But no. Wandering aimlessly through a graveyard with a dopey look on your face works too.
Even by 1870 standards, he could walk around in the sun just fine. People would assume he was injured/lightly burned in one of the wars.
Whenever I'm feeling down or upset I watch this and/or the LND video and instantly feel better
"They confess bland pretty love to each other." Such a versatile line. I'm stealing it.
I feel like the Masquerade being black and white, with the Phantom coming in in red, could have worked--if the set matched. Instead, it's all this pinkish color that completely undermines the effect. The Phantom even somewhat blends in due to the saturation and reddish color.
“This is a musical only as good as the people presenting it.”
The core difference between Lloyd-Webber and Sondheim right there.
I've seen too many questionable Sondheim renditions to agree with that fully lol
It also always bothered me that a professional singer during the Victorian era was wandering indolently around a snowy area - with a completely exposed chest. Seriously, the assumption at the time was that this was a great way to contract pneumonia or at least lose your voice.
18:20 is actually my FAVORITE scene in the play -- the beautiful "Wandering Child" triptych, which they didn't even bother with in this version, with Christine succumbing to the Phantom while Raoul fights both the Phantom and his own realization of what's going on, followed by a scene where Erik rants like a child, detonating explosives in the cemetery while Raoul strikes VERBALLY at all his weak points while Christine tries to get them to run away. It's dramatic and thrilling and energetic in a way this swordfight could never be, because it shows the Phantom for what he is -- a tragic delusional manchild, and more importantly, *the villain of the fucking piece*.
But apparently Webber and Schumacher's hard-on for the Phantom dictated an alternative measure to make Erik look better and Raoul look worse, so fuck you, lens of truth and pyrotechnics, we're just going to have a generic-ass swordfight. UGH. Reason #525,600 I hate this movie.
...oh shit, is the Love Never Dies mask GLITTERING?!
The Love Never Dies mask only glitters on the logo but its looks normal in the actual show.
Emmy was 16 when she was cast & had to wait until she was 17 for Gerard to grope her in the lair scene.
Fuck you, Joel. Just... fuck you straight into a black hole.
...ew
"You have a sunburn. Put some Aloe Vera on it and stop your bitching" I love that. This movie will always be dear to my heart. Being the naive child I was, I fell in love with the movie and as I got older I discovered there was different adaptations. Personally one of my favorite adaptations of PoTO is the Charles Dance miniseries.
seeing the movie version A MILLION TIMES as a kid growing up because I loved it, I thought the "Little Lottie" part WAS them reciting a children's book to each other as a cute way of saying it was them after all these years. I had no idea it was sung until recently when I finally watched the stage version online
It works both ways I think.
"Sweet Lucifer! Is someone torturing a buffalo with laryngitis out there?!"
Oh my gosh! That was the best!
Another thing is how the kiss in the Final Lair was handled. It's supposed to be a quick gesture of affection and comfort, not a passionate make out session.
Keep in mind that ALW has somehow gotten it into his head that Christine is a cheating whore who screwed the Phantom literally the _day before her wedding to Raoul,_ so I’m not surprised she went all in with him.
And on the forehead, not the lips. At least that’s where Christine kissed him in the book.
The movie version of Masquerade sucked. No colors other than black, white, and grey (the Phantom showing up in red was almost a relief), they did the speaking lyrics thing again, and the song was sung way too quickly. LET ME ENJOY THE SONG!
+HopelessRomantic999 Almost a relief. It was a very uninspired costume. "Red Death" indeed.
I think they were going for a superficial look, that everyone conformed to fashion of the time and while they were beautiful underneath that mask, they were plain and conformed.
Even Lon Chaney's Red Death was better than that.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 I loved the choice in the film.
At 14:44, Gerard Butler seems to give a gasp that says, "Oh, please, God, let me hit this note and not sound like crap!"
Alas, his prayer went unanswered.
There are too many complaints I have about this movie, but one comes to mind: if they absolutely insisted on making "Masquerade" center around black and white costume party (if that was the case, they should have excised the lyrics about colors), couldn't they have made it more attractive and eye-catching? Everyone fades into the background! If you want to see a musical that did a black and white costume party correctly, check out "An American in Paris": sharp blacks and whites against dark or bright backgrounds with competent, interesting lighting which makes the visuals arresting and attractive.
In the commentary for this episode (which I really need to get on Dailymotion because it's blocked practically everywhere here) I mentioned "American in Paris" as one of the movies which better captured the vibe I wished that scene had (the other being the can-can sequence in "Moulin Rouge").
You hit it right on the money with the Moulin Rouge sequence. That was chaotic, beautiful, chilling, and unnerving to watch because of how decadent and disorienting it was. That's EXACTLY the vibe Masquerade needs.
Also, colors. For someone who couldn't get enough of dyeing GOTHAM FUCKING CITY in all manner of neon shades, Schumacher miraculously developed a fear of color palettes just in time to completely fuck up a musical number where that kind of riotous, unrestrained gaudiness would have come in HANDY.
The thing that bothered me the most about Gerard's Phantom was not the singing, but how he had a presidential tan while living in the dark sewers...
"Songs in musicals are not just songs. They arguments, or confessions or mental breakdowns. They're an insight into the character's deepest thoughts and feelings." Adding onto this point, I've been doing a Disney animated films marathon for a while (though it is on a hiatus) and I actually like that about them- those song sequences are used as visual shorthand to quickly establish and explain certain bits of character so the audience can get attached quickly. Sure, you could have Snow White and Prince Florian talk and get to know each other (assuming you don't hold to the theory that they already knew each other before the start of the film going off the lyrics of I'm Wishing/One Song like I do because it makes it cuter) in dialogue, maybe a falling in love montage showing time passing, but not only do you have a limited runtime but also sometimes song sequences laying everything out in orchestra and ballads sung to a lady about how beautiful she is, is just more fun and easier to digest.
Emmy actually was trained in opera at a young age. I think she was just not old enough. Training so young can also damage vocal cords. The Phantom to me always seemed like it was always just dribble. It is kinda like Dracula. All fluffy smut.
I think one reason why they might have chosen her was because they wanted the character to appear more innocent and naive. Christine in both the book and the stage version, was actually a mature woman in her 20's, but sheltered and traumatised by the loss of her father. That's how Erik/The Phantom manipulates her, he plays with her psyche.
Emmy admitted in an interview that she was trying to be natural, but in a later interview as an adult she wished she did it differently. She’s actually a great singer when you look at her Instagram, when she’s singing the proper way,
I do hope you mean film adaptations of Dracula, because the novel is *far* from a fluffy, smutty drabble.
Who decided to add the Elektra complex part? Because if I remember well, the allegorical pedophilia wasn't present in the original musical.
+Gregory House Well, Christine has always had the kind of daddy issues that make Freudian analysts weep with joy, but the pedophilia implications are on Lloyd Webber and Schumacher. As I recall, they decided it was implausible for a twenty-year-old to fall for the whole "angelic visitation" angle (because, you know, we all have the world figured out by then), and therefore it was preferable to have their anti-hero openly perving on a teenager he'd apparently been grooming for his bride since she was seven.
Musical Hell This smacks of a lot of horror remakes deciding to 'explain the monster' coughcoughHalloweeNremakecoughcough and it's sad. So sad.
+Gregory House The Elektra thing comes from the original book by Gaston Leroux.
In the book, she doesn't actually meat Erik till she's about 20 when she's studying in the conservatoire, the musical has the same implication. Whereas the movie (as it does most things) gets it wrong.
I thought the actress was a minor in the movie, but Christine herself was assumed to be an adult. Yes it is creepy that the Phantom has been obsessed with her since she was a kid, but I thought they still met when she was an adult...
23:06 this seems like a good time to remind you all that emmy rossum was around 17-18 and gerard butler was in his 30s during filming
do a review on the live version! the um 25th Anniversary At the Royal Albert Hall version with Sierra Boggess and Ramin Karimloo please ❤️
But this is Musical Hell she reviews musicals she hates so since thats the actual stage show she would have to hate the stage show itself. That production was wonderful.
From now on I'll look at this movie and hear the Phantom declaring "THIS! IS! SPARTA!"
"It's not that Rossum's voice is...terrible, if you're looking for someone to play Leisl in your high school's production of The Sound of Music" SHADE!
"Oh, my mistake. That's not the opera ghost, that's Edward's chiropractor."
Diva, you never cease to amaze me with your sarcasm.
Ed Wood, I believe she said. Either way, still funny.
You are so funny, your sarcasm gives me life, thank you
Artheartsoul you have the greatest profile picture
Joel also directed Lost Boys, Falling Down, and Phonebooth, which are indeed considered good movies. But honestly, he does more bad movies than good. but when he does good, it's shocking!
My Gramma (gone 8 years now, RIP Grammy) took me to see this in theaters when I was 10, so it has a huge nostalgic factor for me. Now I can look back at it and definitely acknowledge and giggle at how goofy it is.
Ramin Karimloo is and always will be my favorite Phantom.
The fact that he’s in this movie for .5 seconds as Christine’s dad is an injustice likened to having Hadley Frasier in the Les Mis movie for .5 seconds.
This movie really goes out of its way to make the Phantom look like a whiny baby. He goes on and on about how nobody showed him any compassion before but that's not true. In the stage version, Raoul just escapes, but in the movie he spares his life and lets him go. Madame Giry only happens to know his backstory in the stage version, but in here she freed him, helped him find shelter, and didn't give away his secret location for years because she felt sorry for him. I mean, the idea that the Phantom is at least partially to blame for his isolation because of his own cruel nature has always been in the text, but the world really did ostrazice him completely in most versions and he couldn't live like other people even if he tried. In this one he'd probably have a normal life if he wasn't so dramatic.
Still, despite its many, many, many flaws, I'll admit it's a bit of a guilty pleasure.
It's not that he looks like a whiny baby that I find fault with...the best productions of Phantom are the ones that know the Phantom is actually kind of a petulant whinger and make use of it...so much as the movie's utter lack of self-awareness about it.
The film wants so badly for you to take Gerard's MANPAAAAAIIIIIIINNNN seriously, but never really do anything to justify it past the flashbacks.
Tbh that portrayal of the character totally makes sense to me, because he's a total narcissist and they always see themselves as the victim no matter what. I didn't feel like the movie was buying into his self-pity?
20:58 People that think basic scars are ugly really concern me. I had the same problem with the trailer for Beastly. It boils down to two reasons:
1) Girls don’t find scars hideously ugly; they find them hot. In this case, just replace this actor with Zuko, and the effect looks identical. This makes me think makeup artists that do this are out of touch.
2) If THIS is their idea of hideously ugly, then everyone involved look totally and utterly vain. In fact I don’t want to know how these people would react to real deformities or mutilations.
If someone ever asks for the "film version" of Phantom, I always direct them to the 25th Anniversary at RAH (in my opinion, the best version EVER)!
I really don't understand why everyone hates Gerard Butler's singing. I mean he's no Ramin Karimloo, but he doesn't make me want to gouge out my ears like everyone else insists they want to do.
Yeah I don't think it's completely horrific singing, it just isn't quite right for the character/show.
I could imagine that voice in Raoul since he's not supposed be a trained singer, and Gerard Butler could portray Raoul much better.
It's because it wasn't the *right* voice. Erik is supposed to have the perfect *tenor* not a rock n roll voice.
Once you get your ear in it's very obvious he's pretty terrible. Off key and clunky, he's more yelling the lines than shouting.
Yes, I agree- His voice is not that terrible, better then Madame Giry's for example and Meg's.
When your high school production of Phantom has a vocally stronger Christine than the actual movie version...
I mean, the actress in the movie version literally was a high schooler, so that makes sense.
Controversial opinion time: First, I'm not a big "Phantom of the Opera" fan. I mean, I LIKE it (both the musical and the original novel), but I don't LOVE it or obsess over it like a lot of people. Second... I actually liked Emmy Rossum as Christine Daaé. Sure, she's no Sarah Brightman or Sierra Bogess, but as least she doesn't reach the painful depths of Lucille Ball in "Mame" or Greg Wise in "Walking on Sunshine". "Think of Me" is definetly my favorite song in the entire score, and Rossum sings it beautifully.
Like Diva said: Her voice isn't "bad", it just doesn't have that operatic strength.
Her voice is by no means bad. If her debut role were a Disney princess or something similar, she'd be fine. The problem is her debut role was an opera prodigy. She has a good voice, but she is by no means a soprana.
Okay, why did they dub Minnie Driver? And why did they cast an 17 year old as Christine?
And why, oh why, did they cast Ramin Karimloo in this movie, but not have him play the Phantom?
Also, Emmy Rossum was literally underage at the time of shooting, which makes it creepy not just for the Phantom to lust after her, but for Raoul as well. He was 30. People get arrested for this.
16:25 Thank you for refferencing the novel, that no one is aware of
I read that 3 times and I loved it more every time
I will giive Schuhmacher credi though, for realizing the Phantom is a Baritone, nort a Bass, which seems to be a common mistake
"...or stumped by a difficult math problem..."
I love it!
I've always thought one of the most baffling things about this film are the random and inconsequential references to the Leroux novel. Which is a shame really, because--perhaps if Lloyd Webber didn't have a such a tight grip, if there was a more competent director in charge, and if actors from the stage version were chosen to play The Phantom and Christine instead of Gerard and Emmy--we could have gotten a truly special adaptation of The Phantom of the Opera.
Just imagine what it could have been if they went all-out with the Leroux-isms, like the torture chamber being used during the Final Lair, the Phantom having a full mask and skeletal deformity (the musical originally did have a full mask in the Sydmonton preview version, but the half-mask ended up being a creative solution to the dual problems of inhibited emotive expression and a muffled mic), the Phantom being a proper tragic villain and bogeyman-type figure, the Phantom and Christine's relationship being a bit more toxic, or little things like Raoul bringing the Red Scarf to Christine or the Phantom playing the Violin in the graveyard. We could have gotten an awesome fusion of the best of Leroux and Lloyd Webber, and a Phantom film reminiscent of a dark fairy tale.
But alas... we got a glittery and unnecessarily sexy Phantom movie that is (weirdly) simultaneously both too faithful to the stage version and not faithful enough, done by the dude who thought it was a good idea to give Batman nipples
I am so happy someone has finally made a video with a clear understanding of everything wrong with this film! Butler wasn't right for his role. Emmy wasn't right for her role. The director wasn't right. It was all fucked. I was very big disappointment because I am such a big Phantom fan.
Look up Lindsay Ellis' video essay on it. It's really funny.
Agreed! She's actually got three Phantom related videos, and in one of them, she provides a side-by-side comparison of two other Phantoms singing next to Butler's. It's kind of hilariously jarring to go from Michael Crawford's beautiful voice to...welll...
Nostalgia Critic also did an ensemble parody/review with ALL of those points. Lindsay is included in it, of course.
They couldn't have picked a worse choice then Gerard Butler to sing for the Phantom 😂
I will give him credit for good acting, I liked the way he acted for the Phantom, I thought he was good. And I don't blame him for the terrible deformity, I blame that more on the production design. But his voice is entirely his own fault. I just cannot fathom the justification for this choice. You had Ramin Karimloo on set to play Christine's dad and you didn't cast him?! You morons! If you wanted the star value that Gerard would bring then dub him with Ramin like you did Minnie Driver!
I do have a huge problem with the way the deformity is handled. Apparently Schumacher wanted the Phantom to be more handsome....... what?!
That's not the point of the story! The Phantom was able to lure Christine through his charisma and his god like voice. Seducing her not with his looks but with his power and his confidence as an artist. This just makes it seem that Schumacher did not think that women would sympathise with the Phantom unless he was hot.
That's pretty degrading.
We won't care about his struggle, sympathise with him or even feel attracted to him unless he was smexy as hell? It kind of defeats a lot of the core elements of his character.
We can hardly sympathise with Butler's Phantom being a "loathsome gargoyle" with that diaper rash only covering one quarter of his handsome mug!
Oh, they COULD have picked a worse actor. His name is Russell Crowe.
Still more watchable than "Dracula 2000".
I'd love to hear your analysis of moulin rouge, actually! While it doesn't get the same disrespect it did years ago, it still gets way too much flak for my tastes, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on why it works (and even what you think doesn't, if anything)
When I was in kindergarten I was obsessed with Phantom of the Opera, and I for some reason absolutely loved this adaptation and watched it all the freaking time, and it irritated the heck out of my parents.
I seem to remember liking Rossum's lighter soprano voice in the role. Too many sopranos have this more dramatic sound but with a lack of color, and I prefer it lighter than to have that generis sound that the Carlotta character had.
Have to agree! Although Christine seems immature both in voice and character, that makes sense given how she's written as an ingenue type, and as a lifelong opera non-lover, I really appreciated the characters not over-warbling everything like Douglas and Brightman did...
"And the Phantom shows up, dressed as...Skeletor, the Gay Blade."
*Spits coffee all over monitor*
As someone named Christine, I thank you for this. We watched the movie a couple years ago in music class, and it was hell for people to turn around and laugh at me whenever the phantom said something creepy to her.
I know, I know, I'm like four years late, but I agree. Gerard Butler should have played the playboy- the silent role. (Backs out of room)
I've actually never seen past the beginning of Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again because my DVD was scratched and it won't play anything after that. I think God saved me from enduring more pain.
Darling you were blessed
Rosie Diamond You have been blessed by an Angel of Music
When I first saw Christine's "Think of Me" scene, she was standing so unnaturally still I thought for a moment they were going to cut to someone painting her portrait as she stood and sang. I was so lost, dude. And don't get me started on the Raoul/Christine kiss, talk about flour and white bread trying to be spicy. I'll leave it up to you which is the flour.
Usually I don't care about Christine's father but in this version he really should just send himself to protect Christine.
Before he got to play Jean Valjean, I originally wanted Hugh Jackman as the Phantom. Not only would he deliver an incredible performance, but the movie would have performed better.
I will never for the life of me understand why Schumacher continues to find work.
Amelia Bee Being with buddies with ALW since the 80s.
I reckon he'd probably be better as a production designer rather than director.
The only reason why they cast Carlotta instead of Christine as the lead in the opera in the movie is because they want to show the phantom that they weren't going to take any orders from him since....well, they do manage the opera house after all....still doesn't excuse how very questionably bonkers they did this movie adaptation of the musical!!
Edit (12/12/17): I have watched the 25th Royal Albert Hall version via renting it from the library....I prefer that one over this one musical and visual wise! (Though I will watch Schumacher's version every now and then for the sake of reminding myself why it's got mixed results with the fans of the musical itself!) Hadley Fraser was excellent as Raoul, Ramin Karimloo is fantastic as the titular character and Sierra Boggess did perfectly with Christine! My favy was when they got some of the original Phantom of the Opera cast members including Sarah Brightman and Michael Crawford among others to do the theme song 'The Phantom of the Opera'!
I actually really love this version of Phantom of the Opera
In my oppinion it's a very good movie. I saw it as a child and was like enchanted. Its atmosphere was something that stayed with me for years. Apart from your ideas about how it should look or sound like... I think it's still a well done movie. And Butler is an excelent actor. Btw, I reccomend you the book by Gaston Leroux on which the show is loosely based.
I've read the book. It only makes me dislike this movie even more.
I see, I didn't mention the book to defend the movie. For me they're kinda different things. The musical is not a faithful adaptation of the book and the movie is not faithful to the original show. As I said, I still like it due to the impression I had when I first saw it ( my first experience with the musicals at all), but I like it as the film itself, not necessarily as the adaptation of the show.
The film is very faithful to the show every scene and every word of dialogue is almost the same has in the show. The only thing that really changed was the production design and costumes.
Maybe the Opera House is having a charity walk-a-thon, so that's why everyone is walking around.
15:55 how the hell did that song just fit?
Alright I agree with you that this movie is absolute shit in comparison to some of the other versions and live shows out there I will give it credit as it introduced me to the production as before I saw the movie I had honestly never heard of Phantom. Lol. One super silly and sad note that I thought I would add is that Christine's father in this movie was played by a man named Ramin Karimloo. For reference look up the 25th Anniversary production of Phantom of the Opera at the Royal Albert hall. He plays the Phantom in that production and is my favorite Phantom of all time.
Yeah, he actually tried to do a imitate Piangi's a bit so it wasn't as obvious.
Well, all those flowers in that dressing room would make Elton John jealous.
To be fair, even though I agree the actors' voices are not strong enough you also have to understand they are not professional singers, they are actors. In most musical adaptations these days actors are cast, because they are known. The movie would have generated less profit if they had cast some unknown singers, it was a commercial decision.
Gerard Butler and Emmy Rossum were hardly household names when this came out; remember, this was two years before "300" and only a few months after "The Day After Tomorrow."
Yes I know, but they were more attractive to cast than some unknown opera singer no one would have heard of. Emmy was supposed to be the next best thing. She had just come off Day after tomorrow, and wasn't she nominated for a Golden Globe for this? I actually don't mind Emmy, she's so beautiful, and has a great voice for a non-singer, same with Gerard Butler. I agree they should have made him look more terrifying. Instead he still looks attractive even with the scar. When you see other musicals done around the same time, Chicago, Moulin Rouge, Nine, they all have actors as leads, none of them were professional singers.
The problem is not so much that they're non-singers (okay, it totally is the problem in Butler's case), it's that they're non-singers playing characters who are not only trained singers, but who are established at being much better at it than anyone else around them. The entire premise falls apart because the onscreen evidence contradicts it. It's like if "Amadeus" had everyone going on about what a genius Mozart was, but all you ever saw him do was plunk out "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" with one hand on the piano.
There are plenty of actors who are also trained singers. It's a required skill within the industry. The majority of drama school acting courses include singing and basic dance training. There are many people they could have cast instead of Butler and Rossum.
Yeah, but her voice still hadn't developed that operatic strength at the time.
The opening says it all. The chandelier rising is more affective in the play because of the live audience in the seats.
They should have done something that would have been unique to this film, like a VFX-assisted flythrough of the theatre that would be the central location.
How do you feel about the Les Miserables movie? Would you consider doing a review of it?
I did a Know the Score on it when it came out: ruclips.net/video/zpobriNJIWY/видео.html
I’m Yakko!
I’m Wakko!
AND I’M JAVERT!
Having seen this movie once in high school chorus class I can tell you that yes, Gerard Butler without the aid of horrendously underpriced school speakers sounds like a buffalo with laryngitis and Rossum sounds like she's dead.
Gerard Butler can't sing?
Tell that to HTTYD 2.
He can't sing tenor. That's what she meant
He can act and pierce was worse i thought 😣
And to be fair, his song as Stoick was meant to be raw and intimate, not polished and performative like in Phantom.
@@Dreigonix very true!
Someone: Phantom of the Opera is bad for X and X reasons!!!!
Me: .....anyways /continues watching
Your channel quality is so excellent and your analysis of the faults of these musicals are both humorous and entertaining
There are plot changes in the movie that annoy me to no end in the movie. One being the fact that the new managers in the movie freak out when Madame Giry says that Raoul is their new patron when they already did that in the movie unlike in the musical she says it and it comes as a shock that she knows. The fact that they put Christine having reservations in taking part in Don Juan Triumphant after the confrontation instead of before like in the musical. In the musical I got the feeling that Christine thought that if she and Raoul just left she would be left alone and the cemetery scene made her realize that was not true. Finally having Christine make Raoul let the Phantom go when Raoul had him at his mercy instead of having Christine beg for Raoul to run away with her because the Phantom had the upper hand again like in the musical.
Another problem is that Erik/The Phantom mentions "The world showed no compassion to me!" when both Raoul spared his life on Christine's behalf, and Madame Giry rescued him from a murderous mob as a child.
When I pressed on this I was like "The musical is amazing.... What could she really say bad about it?". But then she started to talk about the movie, and I was just like "This is getting good.....".
The Phantom looks like me the last time I had a peanut 😂
Emmy's face really bothers me in this movie, or rather, her expression. I can't watch this movie without laughing my ass off imagining her thinking: "I'm in a movie!! :)) everything is greAT!! :)) my farts smell like roses!! :))" and it kills me every time.
My voice teacher had me watch this movie because I was going to sing Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again from it. She loves it and so recommended I watch the movie. I thought it was good. Not a masterpiece, but most of the music was lovely and it's stuck with me. I also didn't think Gerard Butler was too bad. Then again, I've had nothing to compare to. But still, I was actually shocked to find out that that was him.