Engineer here and 40kwh leaf owner (with click). I think the problem will keep coming back. The spline must be designed to have clearance to the female for assembly, yet the spline also needs to transmit the engine torque. By tightening the nut you are trying to remove the backlash caused by the clearance by relying now on the nut to tension the driveshaft to the hub, so now the torque is being transmitted via friction between the mating faces rather than by the spline. The mating faces aren't designed to take that amount of torque (that's why there is a spline there in the first place) so it will loosen again over time. More prevalent with evs I think as spline now needs to work in both forwards and backwards directions due to regen torque operating in the backwards direction. It probably needs regular lubing as per this video. Thanks for the vid!
I'm having the same click problem with my Leaf and have also tried the recommended "fixes", both adding the grease per bulletin and tightening to the correct torque (which is VERY low for a stub axle nut, around 130Nm if I remember right) or a moderate degree of overtightening (around 150Nm) and the problem just comes back again. My opinion after researching this a lot and attempting the fixes on my own car is that it is simply a poor design on the part of Nissan and that there is NO permanent fix for this issue - with the Nissan Bulletins only being workarounds to keep the customer happy and get the car through the warranty period before they give up trying to solve the click. If you check EV forums there are numerous people who have had their car back to Nissan under warranty multiple times and even the "official fix" is never permanent. Once out of warranty most give up trying to get the problem resolved and live with the noise, as I have. The stub axle nut torque on the Leaf is unusually low - I don't have the exact figure in front of me but it's only around 130Nm - not much more than a wheel nut. On most other cars I've owned the stub axle nut is over 300Nm - my ICE car has a stub axle nut torque figure of 380Nm! Because the stub axle nut torque is so low it allows the play in the spline to rock back and forth with acceleration and regenerative braking, thus a clicking noise. The grease does NOT (can not) stop the spline from rocking back and forth in its play, it only silences the noise by adding something tacky/sticky to the faces that make contact, deadening the impacts. As soon as the grease washes away the noise comes back. The Nissan Bulletin specifically warns about overtightening the nut and I think I know why - if you look at the cutaway view of the CV joint in the service manual the stub axle shaft is only a press/interference fit into the CV joint housing and is not one piece as it is on some cars - if you overtighten the nut too far you're likely to pull the stub out of the CV joint partially, and destroy the interference fit in the process, at which point you'd be looking at a new CV joint. The problem is at the very low torque figure they specify the nut will eventually start to work loose a bit, so you're caught between a rock and a hard place. Really bad design IMHO. My honest advice to other Leaf owners is to just live with the noise and accept that it's a minor design flaw in an otherwise fairly sturdy car, as there is no permanent fix and you will just spend a lot of time and money and get wound up in knots trying to solve it. I've come to peace with the noise and just ignore it now. If it was an ICE vehicle you would never hear it over engine noise, it's only because the car is silent when stationary that it can even be heard.
Hi. Great video. Tip for part III, if there is one: Before you loosen the nut, could you please try to re-torque it? That could tell us: 1. how much slack developed, and 2. whether just doing that is a (temporary?) fix.
@@eo8513 I’m afraid not for me, sadly. I have Cleevely coming next week to help me once and for all as it’s driving me mad now (18months). Nissan dealership say they cannot find anything wrong 🤦🏼♂️
HOWEVER… I have since had Cleevely EV out as the noise was driving me insane and I wanted resolved once and for all, and they believe it is the spring not moving so freely on the shock absorber. After spraying some expensive chain lube on the underside of the strut mount and top (both sides) as well as the top of the spring, removing and checking the hub nuts have plenty (but not too much) of silicone on the splines of the driveshaft AND tightening the hub nut just a little more than Nissan specify, the noises have vanished (30hrs in)!! Hoping it has resolved longer term - but if so, a cheap and easy fix for me (now I know, and you do too)! 🤞🏻😎😁
Andrew, we are closing in on a year since you posted this video. Is the click still gone? Some have said it is likely to return due to design flaws. Also, I wonder if the relaxing of torque on removal is due to the paste getting squeezed out between the hub and drive axle, which allows the washer to relax. Thanks!
Hi Andrew I am following your progresses on the clicking noise as I am a leafer too. Did this last operation fix the clinking noise ? Don’t you believe that there might be an issue with the increased torque after years on the shaft ? Thanks Andrew ! Cheers. William
As I was watching your video I was thinking that what you were lubing was going to make your problem worse. The spline in hub fit is not suppose to move adding lube will make it move . putting lock tite all over the spline may fit the problem but will be a problem latter if you need to get it apart. my 13 and 18 leafs are doing the same thing. I will go tighten the axle nut and not worry about the noise. how do I fix my notchy steering on the 13? I need constant steering wheel movement as the car will not hold a strait line?
Luckily out 65 plate hasn't got this click. I did mention the original video to my MOT tester who said it's not just Nissan, it's a lot of manufacturers that have the same issues. They're not sure why. But if it is a maintenance issue, then surely it should be part of the dealer servicing when it goes in each year??
Collected my 2022 62kw Leaf (60k kilometers) from dealer after fixing the clicking sound, it has now re appeared 3 weeks later & they say it could be the brakes moving on the calibers & want 570 for front pads & discs which might fix the issue!
When did that happen ? When I checked the latest Bulletin a year ago it specifically warned about NOT increasing the torque figure. It seem Nissan can't make up their mind... I have seen 185Nm mentioned as well but not from official channels. the stub axle and CV joint are two separate pieces with an interference fit, excessive torque may damage that interference fit so I'd be wary.
This clicking.. I noticed on my 2013 leaf when reversing and turning the wheel all the way I feel a light clicking. I can actual feel this clicking on my floor board. However, driving forward and turning the wheel does not produce the click. Is this the same type of clicking you are referring to, or do I have some other front end issue? .
Had my 2021 Leaf in for this, they are replacing the nut and washer and the wheel bearing assembly that the drive shaft slots into! They reckon the outer splines are faulty and soft.
I've got a sound that I can best describe as a "creak" when maneuvering the car in the drive each morning. Most noticeable when cold. Now I've got a series of "thumps" that is a lot more disturbing!
I had the same annoying clicking noise, on both left front and rear wheels, it turned out to be the tyre pressure sensors had come dislodged and were clicking around the wheel at very low speeds, and rattling around the inside of the wheel, problem fixed 😊
Nissan should be sued. This is a f'n design flaw and Nissan should be required to provide all Nissan Leaf owners with a proper retrofit solution at no cost to the owners!
So does anyone know if this loose tolerance is causing damage? Is it play in the splines? It's not clear what parts are impacting to cause this noise. I figure if its splines then they will gradually round and the problem would just grow exponentially. Anyone??
The click is the splined shaft turning back and forth within the available play in the spline in the hub. The low nut torque (about 120Nm) is not enough to stop this happening on acceleration and deceleration but higher nut torques are likely to damage the CV joint because the stub axle is only a press fit into the CV joint. In short it's bad design with no permanent fix that I'm aware of.
Iv 20000 on my leaf haven't serviced it since 90000 only one has gone the morning on the transfer box cost 120 for mounting and 220 to be fitted by local garage still has full battery after 5 years and charged everynightt 😂😂
Same question I was going to ask. Hopefully, Andrew would have an answer. Because if we ask that to the dealership I would assume they would say; YES you need to maintain that every so often.
Not dangerous no. It's slight movement of the stub axle spline within the spline on the hub. As there is no permanent fix it's best to just live with it and not worry about it, as most out of warranty Leaf owners do....
Engineer here and 40kwh leaf owner (with click). I think the problem will keep coming back. The spline must be designed to have clearance to the female for assembly, yet the spline also needs to transmit the engine torque. By tightening the nut you are trying to remove the backlash caused by the clearance by relying now on the nut to tension the driveshaft to the hub, so now the torque is being transmitted via friction between the mating faces rather than by the spline. The mating faces aren't designed to take that amount of torque (that's why there is a spline there in the first place) so it will loosen again over time. More prevalent with evs I think as spline now needs to work in both forwards and backwards directions due to regen torque operating in the backwards direction. It probably needs regular lubing as per this video. Thanks for the vid!
I'm having the same click problem with my Leaf and have also tried the recommended "fixes", both adding the grease per bulletin and tightening to the correct torque (which is VERY low for a stub axle nut, around 130Nm if I remember right) or a moderate degree of overtightening (around 150Nm) and the problem just comes back again.
My opinion after researching this a lot and attempting the fixes on my own car is that it is simply a poor design on the part of Nissan and that there is NO permanent fix for this issue - with the Nissan Bulletins only being workarounds to keep the customer happy and get the car through the warranty period before they give up trying to solve the click. If you check EV forums there are numerous people who have had their car back to Nissan under warranty multiple times and even the "official fix" is never permanent. Once out of warranty most give up trying to get the problem resolved and live with the noise, as I have.
The stub axle nut torque on the Leaf is unusually low - I don't have the exact figure in front of me but it's only around 130Nm - not much more than a wheel nut. On most other cars I've owned the stub axle nut is over 300Nm - my ICE car has a stub axle nut torque figure of 380Nm!
Because the stub axle nut torque is so low it allows the play in the spline to rock back and forth with acceleration and regenerative braking, thus a clicking noise. The grease does NOT (can not) stop the spline from rocking back and forth in its play, it only silences the noise by adding something tacky/sticky to the faces that make contact, deadening the impacts. As soon as the grease washes away the noise comes back.
The Nissan Bulletin specifically warns about overtightening the nut and I think I know why - if you look at the cutaway view of the CV joint in the service manual the stub axle shaft is only a press/interference fit into the CV joint housing and is not one piece as it is on some cars - if you overtighten the nut too far you're likely to pull the stub out of the CV joint partially, and destroy the interference fit in the process, at which point you'd be looking at a new CV joint. The problem is at the very low torque figure they specify the nut will eventually start to work loose a bit, so you're caught between a rock and a hard place.
Really bad design IMHO. My honest advice to other Leaf owners is to just live with the noise and accept that it's a minor design flaw in an otherwise fairly sturdy car, as there is no permanent fix and you will just spend a lot of time and money and get wound up in knots trying to solve it. I've come to peace with the noise and just ignore it now. If it was an ICE vehicle you would never hear it over engine noise, it's only because the car is silent when stationary that it can even be heard.
Hi. Great video.
Tip for part III, if there is one: Before you loosen the nut, could you please try to re-torque it?
That could tell us: 1. how much slack developed, and 2. whether just doing that is a (temporary?) fix.
I'm going to have a go at mine this weekend (2018 40kWh) ! I will start with just re-torquing first and comment back!
@@datakid360 Did it work just tightening only?
@@eo8513 I’m afraid not for me, sadly. I have Cleevely coming next week to help me once and for all as it’s driving me mad now (18months). Nissan dealership say they cannot find anything wrong 🤦🏼♂️
HOWEVER… I have since had Cleevely EV out as the noise was driving me insane and I wanted resolved once and for all, and they believe it is the spring not moving so freely on the shock absorber. After spraying some expensive chain lube on the underside of the strut mount and top (both sides) as well as the top of the spring, removing and checking the hub nuts have plenty (but not too much) of silicone on the splines of the driveshaft AND tightening the hub nut just a little more than Nissan specify, the noises have vanished (30hrs in)!! Hoping it has resolved longer term - but if so, a cheap and easy fix for me (now I know, and you do too)! 🤞🏻😎😁
@@datakid360 Has the clicking returned?
leafers unite! thanks for this follow up and any future follow ups about the clicking issue.
What if you do nothing about the clicking. Will it cause damage?
Andrew, we are closing in on a year since you posted this video. Is the click still gone? Some have said it is likely to return due to design flaws. Also, I wonder if the relaxing of torque on removal is due to the paste getting squeezed out between the hub and drive axle, which allows the washer to relax. Thanks!
What torque did you use this time? First time you overdid it, right?
You can damage the bearing if you over-torque this (drive shaft nut)
Hi Andrew I am following your progresses on the clicking noise as I am a leafer too. Did this last operation fix the clinking noise ? Don’t you believe that there might be an issue with the increased torque after years on the shaft ? Thanks Andrew ! Cheers. William
As I was watching your video I was thinking that what you were lubing was going to make your problem worse. The spline in hub fit is not suppose to move adding lube will make it move .
putting lock tite all over the spline may fit the problem but will be a problem latter if you need to get it apart. my 13 and 18 leafs are doing the same thing. I will go tighten the axle nut and not worry about the noise. how do I fix my notchy steering on the 13? I need constant steering wheel movement as the car will not hold a strait line?
Luckily out 65 plate hasn't got this click. I did mention the original video to my MOT tester who said it's not just Nissan, it's a lot of manufacturers that have the same issues. They're not sure why. But if it is a maintenance issue, then surely it should be part of the dealer servicing when it goes in each year??
Collected my 2022 62kw Leaf (60k kilometers) from dealer after fixing the clicking sound, it has now re appeared 3 weeks later & they say it could be the brakes moving on the calibers & want 570 for front pads & discs which might fix the issue!
My Leaf 40 has started to click, on searching on this, Nissan have upped their Torque to 185nm
Thank you, that's interesting to know for next time!
Some says 89ft lb ( 130 nm) and now 185nm for center nut. Which one is correct? I have 2018 Japan and 2021 UK leaf. Quite confused :(
@@korayus where did u hear that?
When did that happen ? When I checked the latest Bulletin a year ago it specifically warned about NOT increasing the torque figure. It seem Nissan can't make up their mind... I have seen 185Nm mentioned as well but not from official channels. the stub axle and CV joint are two separate pieces with an interference fit, excessive torque may damage that interference fit so I'd be wary.
This clicking.. I noticed on my 2013 leaf when reversing and turning the wheel all the way I feel a light clicking. I can actual feel this clicking on my floor board. However, driving forward and turning the wheel does not produce the click. Is this the same type of clicking you are referring to, or do I have some other front end issue? .
Had my 2021 Leaf in for this, they are replacing the nut and washer and the wheel bearing assembly that the drive shaft slots into! They reckon the outer splines are faulty and soft.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
I've got a sound that I can best describe as a "creak" when maneuvering the car in the drive each morning. Most noticeable when cold. Now I've got a series of "thumps" that is a lot more disturbing!
I had the same annoying clicking noise, on both left front and rear wheels, it turned out to be the tyre pressure sensors had come dislodged and were clicking around the wheel at very low speeds, and rattling around the inside of the wheel, problem fixed 😊
Interesting! Hadn't considered that. Thanks for sharing.
i have a 2019 leaf with the clicking. brought it to the dealership and they said they torqued the lug nuts. clicking is gone.
Then you had a different issue. The click this video is referring to is caused by the stub axle spline moving.
Please, make a cooler fluid change video.
Nissan should be sued. This is a f'n design flaw and Nissan should be required to provide all Nissan Leaf owners with a proper retrofit solution at no cost to the owners!
So does anyone know if this loose tolerance is causing damage? Is it play in the splines? It's not clear what parts are impacting to cause this noise. I figure if its splines then they will gradually round and the problem would just grow exponentially. Anyone??
The click is the splined shaft turning back and forth within the available play in the spline in the hub. The low nut torque (about 120Nm) is not enough to stop this happening on acceleration and deceleration but higher nut torques are likely to damage the CV joint because the stub axle is only a press fit into the CV joint. In short it's bad design with no permanent fix that I'm aware of.
Iv 20000 on my leaf haven't serviced it since 90000 only one has gone the morning on the transfer box cost 120 for mounting and 220 to be fitted by local garage still has full battery after 5 years and charged everynightt 😂😂
Is this click dangerous? I have noticed it recently in my 40 kwh leaf. If I ignore it will I be in trouble in the future?
Same question I was going to ask. Hopefully, Andrew would have an answer. Because if we ask that to the dealership I would assume they would say; YES you need to maintain that every so often.
Not dangerous no. It's slight movement of the stub axle spline within the spline on the hub. As there is no permanent fix it's best to just live with it and not worry about it, as most out of warranty Leaf owners do....
@@dbmandrake Too much tolerance in the spline :( i have the same issue especially when braking and regen.