Thank you, Allan! These monuments are very much pages in the history book of the local village and/or town. Along with the monuments, the church buildings themselves have a story to tell as they span the centuries since their inception. You have done so much to bring these all to light for me, and you have my deep gratitude.
Your interpretation makes a lot of sense. She had no one to leave her fortune to, so for some reason she chose this young guy who must have been pleasant and likely platonic company -- and maybe a friend of her son's? -- with the full understanding that he'd outlive her.
I wondered if Bertie and the son were friends, it would make sense. They were probably mixing in London social circles. Sadly, no evidence - but it’s a good hunch.
@@allanbarton what happended to their wealth? I am not an expert on English history. I have the following question: If he had fathered a son, gotten into the military, stayed in Parliament etc. and overall managed to use the wealth well, could he be made a baron or something by the monarch? I ask because I wonder whether even last-born sons of earls could reach a peerage, or what is the criteria? I apologise for my bad English, I am not a native speaker
Old in church burials and graveyards are fascinating places to visit because you learn so much about the inhabitants and the times that they lived in there. That’s why when I visit a new town on my travels I try to visit the cemetery. Some people think that I’m morbid for doing so, but I don’t care. They don’t know what fascinating stories, facts and headstone/monument art that they are missing! In our town’s cemetery there is a large family buried there all in a long row. In the course of 2 weeks the husband/father along with all 8 of his children including a newborn baby died of diphtheria. The wife/mother outlived her entire family by another 50 years and never remarried. What a tragedy! The people buried in cemeteries and in churches deserve to be remembered by us the living.
I agree, I wish there was a diary or something left to give more background to the story of all these people. The only thing left behind is the sadness of parents losing the children they loved.
I hope she found some happiness with her young husband. I wonder how they met, and who proposed? There is a historical novel there just waiting to be written. Thank you for another fascinating dive into the past.
I watched a recent talk by Dr. Irving Finkel about Ancient Mesopotamian dream and omen interpretation. It was very interesting, but the thing that struck me the most was just how little humans have changed in the intervening 5000 years. The exact same fears and hopes and attempts to influence our fates.
In the end Charles Bertie did, and then the estate went to another of his brothers, who in time became Duke of Ancaster - who in turn left divided it to be split equally between his heirs. The descendants of the Bertie's still had the estate in the 1920s.
Thank you, Allan, another fascinating video. I admire Mary for how she took care of her property during those times. My list of things to see in England some day is growing longer and longer 😁By the way, I received my December issue of The Antiquary Magazine. It is like receiving a multi-page Christmas card 😍 Merry Christmas to you and your family!
The monuments in churches reveal so much about previous lives. Fashions, tragedies, expediency and grief. Thank you for sharing your insights and rambles Allan. Always fascinating and enlightening. I have learnt so much!
Spelt "Bertie". With the construction of Blenheim Palace adjoining the town of New Woodstock the Duke of Marlborough became the most important power in the area and in 1706 he replaced Lord Abingdon as Lord Lieutenant of Oxfordshire which cemented his power in the area. Charles Bertie did not bother to stand in the 1708 election (or rather Abingdon refrained from putting him forward) knowing he would lose against the Duke's candidate.
I’tapped a ‘like’ for this comment, because ,though I know nothing about the the situation @ the time, I really appreciate comments that give more information Thank you.
Thanks Allan, that’s very interesting. I wonder if the busts on the shelf are a likeness of Charles and Mary or just a representation of a couple? I guess we will never know as people didn’t rush off to get portraits done like we can snap off a photo these days. I hope that church is being looked after too, it’s rather lovely.
Thanks for another great one, Allan! I'm curious, though: The date on of death on one slab was different from the one you narrated, as was the age at death of Bertie on another. Is there a discrepancy between the available biographies and these two inscriptions?
I think this is the first time you've covered a family (apart from the royal one) whose path I've crossed in my family history research. Charles wasn't in there (he is now) but his father was. Any idea what happened to the second Mrs Charles Bertie (Mary Marshall) after Charles's death? I can't find her remarrying or being buried within 100 miles of Theddlethorpe on FindMyPast. She obviously wasn't buried with Charles.
Thank you. I wonder what happened to the young husband's second wife? I assume that, unless he gave money away to his relatives, she inherited the first wife's money.
I agee with the speculation that Charles was her substitute 'son'. Someone Mary saw as worthy to be her heir. Perhaps marriage was more convenient and expedient than adoption of an adult?
Okay, I've lost track of their ages...you said he died "aged 42" but the stone read "in his 45th year"? So... what was the age difference? He seems an older bridegroom for a first marriage?
@@ericalbany the monument is not in its original position. The church, particularly the chancel has been messed about and rebuilt - where the monument is now placed was once an arch leading to a chapel.
Thank you, Allan! These monuments are very much pages in the history book of the local village and/or town. Along with the monuments, the church buildings themselves have a story to tell as they span the centuries since their inception. You have done so much to bring these all to light for me, and you have my deep gratitude.
Your interpretation makes a lot of sense. She had no one to leave her fortune to, so for some reason she chose this young guy who must have been pleasant and likely platonic company -- and maybe a friend of her son's? -- with the full understanding that he'd outlive her.
I wondered if Bertie and the son were friends, it would make sense. They were probably mixing in London social circles. Sadly, no evidence - but it’s a good hunch.
@@allanbartondid he have children later?
no children of either marriage
@@deutschermichel5807
@@allanbarton what happended to their wealth?
I am not an expert on English history. I have the following question:
If he had fathered a son, gotten into the military, stayed in Parliament etc. and overall managed to use the wealth well, could he be made a baron or something by the monarch? I ask because I wonder whether even last-born sons of earls could reach a peerage, or what is the criteria? I apologise for my bad English, I am not a native speaker
Wonder if the fortune went to one of his nephews.
What an interesting story! I love looking round the old monuments inside churches
When I was in college I researched baptismal and marriage records of the parish of Yorkshire. You can glean so much from the little that is said.
Old in church burials and graveyards are fascinating places to visit because you learn so much about the inhabitants and the times that they lived in there. That’s why when I visit a new town on my travels I try to visit the cemetery. Some people think that I’m morbid for doing so, but I don’t care. They don’t know what fascinating stories, facts and headstone/monument art that they are missing! In our town’s cemetery there is a large family buried there all in a long row. In the course of 2 weeks the husband/father along with all 8 of his children including a newborn baby died of diphtheria. The wife/mother outlived her entire family by another 50 years and never remarried. What a tragedy! The people buried in cemeteries and in churches deserve to be remembered by us the living.
I love cemeteries! If you ever come to New Haven Connecticut you must check out Grove Street cemetery. It is so awesome❤
I agree, I wish there was a diary or something left to give more background to the story of all these people. The only thing left behind is the sadness of parents losing the children they loved.
Their wills might reveal more clues
Good one! And you’re right-that was a complicated relationship. And it’s set in stone for the ages.
I hope she found some happiness with her young husband. I wonder how they met, and who proposed? There is a historical novel there just waiting to be written. Thank you for another fascinating dive into the past.
When all is said and done, it's the humanity of the stories of those that are long gone, that linger... Same lives, different ages.
I watched a recent talk by Dr. Irving Finkel about Ancient Mesopotamian dream and omen interpretation. It was very interesting, but the thing that struck me the most was just how little humans have changed in the intervening 5000 years. The exact same fears and hopes and attempts to influence our fates.
Fascinating. Begs the question of who inherited her fortune !!
In the end Charles Bertie did, and then the estate went to another of his brothers, who in time became Duke of Ancaster - who in turn left divided it to be split equally between his heirs. The descendants of the Bertie's still had the estate in the 1920s.
@@allanbarton thanks for that - presumably the outcome arranged with Mary
@@carolinegreenwell9086 yes absolutely, Mary had no close relatives whatsoever so all went to Charles.
Thank you, Allan, another fascinating video. I admire Mary for how she took care of her property during those times. My list of things to see in England some day is growing longer and longer 😁By the way, I received my December issue of The Antiquary Magazine. It is like receiving a multi-page Christmas card 😍 Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Very touching.
The monuments in churches reveal so much about previous lives. Fashions, tragedies, expediency and grief. Thank you for sharing your insights and rambles Allan. Always fascinating and enlightening. I have learnt so much!
Yet another interesting look into past lives. Thank you
Spelt "Bertie". With the construction of Blenheim Palace adjoining the town of New Woodstock the Duke of Marlborough became the most important power in the area and in 1706 he replaced Lord Abingdon as Lord Lieutenant of Oxfordshire which cemented his power in the area. Charles Bertie did not bother to stand in the 1708 election (or rather Abingdon refrained from putting him forward) knowing he would lose against the Duke's candidate.
It was all change in 1706.
I’tapped a ‘like’ for this comment, because ,though I know nothing about the the situation @ the time, I really appreciate comments that give more information Thank you.
spelled Bertie but definitely pronounced Barty The family are still around
Love your channel. More please.
More coming and thank you.
Such an interesting story, thank you Allan.
My pleasure.
Such an interesting story! I’m sure there are countless others in the many churches in your beautiful country. Thank you for sharing them with us.
A very fascinating story! Thanks! 👏🏻👍🏻
Excellent - thank you once again 👏👏👏
Love your work! Have you ever done a video on St Thomas becket?
I haven’t - I should rectify that next year.
@@allanbarton 🙏
Yes! My little great-nephew is named for him. (A rarity these days, particularly in the US.)
Great as usual😁
Thank you Allan !! I am not missing a single video and It's always a pleasure
Hi Allan! A relatable story indeed.
I do like your church visits. Always interesting.
I love your observations and humor... Excelsior!
The words Gold Digger come to mind for Charly 😁
Thank you, Allan!
So much life in these memorials! Thank you for this story. Wishing you a very Happy Christmas.
Thank you anothwr great episode ❤❤❤
Thanks Allan, that’s very interesting. I wonder if the busts on the shelf are a likeness of Charles and Mary or just a representation of a couple? I guess we will never know as people didn’t rush off to get portraits done like we can snap off a photo these days. I hope that church is being looked after too, it’s rather lovely.
Great story Allan
Another interesting church and interesting lives of the people memorialized there
I love this place Denise, a lovely spot near Mablethorpe.
Another VERY INTERESTING video, Allan!!❤👍
Fascinating video. Thanks very much!
Thanks for another great one, Allan! I'm curious, though: The date on of death on one slab was different from the one you narrated, as was the age at death of Bertie on another. Is there a discrepancy between the available biographies and these two inscriptions?
No discrepancy, just a slip in my narration.
I think this is the first time you've covered a family (apart from the royal one) whose path I've crossed in my family history research. Charles wasn't in there (he is now) but his father was.
Any idea what happened to the second Mrs Charles Bertie (Mary Marshall) after Charles's death? I can't find her remarrying or being buried within 100 miles of Theddlethorpe on FindMyPast. She obviously wasn't buried with Charles.
Interesting
So sad about her children.
Thank you. I wonder what happened to the young husband's second wife? I assume that, unless he gave money
away to his relatives, she inherited the first wife's money.
I’ve not as yet been able to find out what happened to her. She didn’t inherit, the Newcomen properties went to Charles Bertie’s brother.
@@allanbarton
Interesting Thank you for replying.
Is there a phone number I can ring to order magazines gifts etc? I don't do PayPal or credit cards thank you
We can’t do transactions over the phone, but if you send an email we can arrange other means to sort things out info@antiquary.online
@@allanbarton thank you Allan will sort out
@@victoriacritchlow9069 thanks Victoria.
Interesting.
It almost looks as if their memorial would be enhanced by a full marble frame, or columns?
life can be complicated in any century as proven
I agee with the speculation that Charles was her substitute 'son'.
Someone Mary saw as worthy to be her heir.
Perhaps marriage was more convenient and expedient than adoption of an adult?
Okay, I've lost track of their ages...you said he died "aged 42" but the stone read "in his 45th year"? So... what was the age difference? He seems an older bridegroom for a first marriage?
22 years age difference. Not really that old for someone of his social class.
Why did you not brush the many mouse droppings off the subjects?
Did the younger husband ever have kids with his second wife?
Sadly no.
Seems odd to venerate these people. They must have funded the church.
Not so much venerated, these are their grave markers.
and though they are placed near the altar they are outside of the rail. @@allanbarton
@@ericalbany the monument is not in its original position. The church, particularly the chancel has been messed about and rebuilt - where the monument is now placed was once an arch leading to a chapel.
Another VERY INTERESTING video, Allan!!❤👍