Nirn is the DAEDRIC REALM of Lorkhan - The Mythic Dawn Theory Explored - Elder Scrolls Lore
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2020
- In our latest Elder Scrolls video we discuss the nature of Mundus itself.
The cosmology diagram in Thumbnail is by Eucatastr0phic:
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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series and was released worldwide on November 11, 2011. The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim.
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Игры
You say Daedra don't have souls, but my soul gems disagree.
Great thinking!
Golden Saints in Morrowind, the best souls for enchantment
"Daedra lack an Anuic animus, also known as a mortal soul,[1] each one instead possessing a Daedric soul known as a Vestige." vestiage is a soul just not anuic but padomic
The Ideal Masters care not what you call a soul, only that they have access to them.
@Wirr Ling Where does that come from, lore-wise?
Dwemer in Aetherius 1 :
*Look at Mundus*
"Wait... It's all a Daedric Realm?"
Dwemer in Aetherius 2 :
*Grabing Crossbow*
"Always has been."
Top comment material here
Just an amazing comment
I was your 1000th like
This is an incredible comment.
Dumac Dwarfking:
*Looks at Mundus*
"Wait, it's all a Daedric realm?
Kagrenac:
*Swings his Tools* KLANNNG
"Always has been."
Aedra: *Rips out Lorkhans heart*
Lorkhan: Do as you must, I've already won.
Pretty much what happened
Auri-El "aight then": *Yeets Heart across Tamriel*
@@thalmoragent9344 I suppose I can't ignore this game forever...
*Laughs in Towers*
Edit: There, I'm back to my old, pettty padomaic ass. Are you happy now?
@@ClvrBstrd
Nice to see you again, my Padomaic Rival. My light of Anu burns bright regardless, resisting your Sithis-Spawned Shadows.
Me and the "Trinimac-Pack" shall stand unchanging in the face of you "Lorkhan-Lovers"
@@thalmoragent9344 dont like elves much but that was pretty eloquent, upvote
"it just works" - Lorkhan on the creation of mundus...
before the rest of his team pull his heart out and tear him asunder
It’s not often I literally laugh out loud from a RUclips Comment. Well done.
Todd Howard is the living incarnation of Lorkhan while Microsoft are the divines
_"16 times the detail."_
-Lorkhan presenting the Et'ada his plan for the construction of Mundus, Dawn Era.
@@immortalsnail-xd7zv Do you see that mountain? You can walk all the way to the top of that mountain, it isn't pre-rendered backdrop guise.
@@immortalsnail-xd7zv
Magnus:
16 times the detail?
Yeah, I think I can do that...
Oh no! What's happening to me?
F this, I'm outta here!
That would explain why daedra are so interested with mortals and their souls. Because Tamriel or Nirn is Lorkhan's realm, daedra don't have much direct power over it. But if they make a mortal to agree with them it is like making part of Lorkhan to agree with them and then they can start to affect that realm. And getting souls to serve you is like getting pieces of Lorkhan to serve you and then you can use those pieces to affect his realm.
The aedra, willingly or unwillingly became part of that realm so they have power to affect it. So praying them makes sense.
Hero of Kvatch mantling Sheo means that through him Lorkhan indirectly controls Shivering isles. Could explain why Sheo has so much power in Tamriel, being able to turn peole into chicken and slices of cheese.
Bruh. This is all so good. 100% yes
woah that just make a lot of sense
I agree that the reasoning for lesser daedra making pacts with mortals as pieces of Lorkhan is sound. As well as the aedra having sway over Nirn as servants of Lorkhan.
As for Sheogorath, he was pulling shenanigans prior to the mantling with the hero of Kvatch. Such as the massive rock he tried to drop on top of Vivec City. Which was well before the 3rd Era. He can even be summoned on any other prince’s summoning day. He is simply the most powerful prince, and can therefore get away with such things. Remember that he used to be Jyggalag, Daedric Prince of Order until all of the other daedric princes worked ‘together’ to oppose and change him into Sheogorath. To say a threat large enough to merit ‘any’ number of daedric princes to collaborate is someone to not be reckoned with casually is an understatement, but ‘all’ of the daedric princes?
I always saw the Hero of Kvatch's manteling of Sheogorath as his ultimate descent into madness (and eventual death) after having failed to save the Septim bloodline. Either that or he was basically an aspect of Sheogorath throughout the entire game all along. Damn, Nirn really is a daedra's playing field.
Isnt Sheo alone isnt the most powerful deadra without the mantling of hero of Kvatch? Transforming shouldnt be the least of the things he could do?
I now know more about Elder Scrolls lore than I do about real world history. Thank you for allowing this affront to my humanity occur, I cherish you.
thats normal
knowing more lore on a world that isn't your own proves 2 things
that's a good writer and life sucks
Stories we tell for entertainment are based on our imagination. Now ask yourself what influences this imagination? Not just how we have been raised but also our deepest parts of the self, our wants and needs, maybe even aspects we repress like forgotten memories. Game theories like "we are a part of lorkhans will expressing itself" are the same as real world philosophies and religions that say we have a part of God in us and thus are God, or at the very least our own God. Or that we wanted to be reincarnated here to learn something new.
Now think about ghost, demon or alien stories, they are all very similar to how some creatures and entities in elder scrolls appear to people and unbelievable unless it happened personally to you. Or the dwemer going missing like some other civilizations. For everything mentioned in this channels videos there are comparable real world events. Understanding this imagined story might hold the secret to understanding what really happened and still happens in our world. Maybe even better than understanding our real world history and science can because we have hardly any facts to go off of and researching something without funding is practically impossible.
We are just unable to verify the real truth until death (if even then).
If you wanna hear mind bending possibly true histories of our own world look no further than the Variety of of interpretations fo events & records From Samaria, Besides the fact that every religion ever is technically a retailing of the stories from that, It gets your choice of extra interdimensional powers or aliens Types of weird and you're crazy, Like I said there are several interpretations It is technically a dead language that we've only interpreted, But anyways it's extremely interesting for anyone who is interested in the fantastical and the historic.
World history is more interesting based on the fact its real. Tho TES is a fun escape.
@@exorias625 The world doesn't suck. Without the world their wouldn't have been inspiration to create the elder scrolls universe as we know it. And there is so much more to know about this world.
Imagine vigilants of stendarr realizing a daedra is literally the reason they have a world to live in.
They'll need to ask someone to kill them. They can't self-terminate.
Lorkhan is an aedra. Stuhn fought for Lorkhan
Lorkhan is an aedra, its very disrespectful to call him a daedra. Mundas is not an oblivion realm so the 8 divines and Lorkhan are not daedrc princes.
@@chickentendies5215 yet Both stem from the same creation Meridia is a Aedra yet never sacrifice her divinity to create Nirn similar to Magnus the architect
@@CommanderM117 meridia was a magna-ge. She sacrificed part of her divinity then fled with Magnus, becoming a magna-ge. Then she had some deals with daedra (Mehrune's razor i think) and she was banished.
She fits in all three categories of et'ada
Lorkan is the Daedric prince of Free Will. This would be why his underlings had the power to overthrow him, and why the other princes can come and go as they please. I think he expected to be overthrown, and he’s quite happy that way. Because what is free will when your creator is known and tangible?
That works too perfectly...
It's hard to think of anything else he'd be The daydrick Prince of, Other than the cycle of life-&-death Itself, But I don't even think that has that has much validity.
Galaxy brain take. This can be further supported by how other daedra like Molag anal and hiricine secretly and openly enjoy being bested in their own domains. Bal when he’s overpowered and beaten in ESO and Hiricine whenever the prey escapes.
How would free will be effected if your creator was right therw next to you?
Man I love elder scrolls! I'm a theology major and specialize in philosophy and world religions. I have used TES Lore in so many college papers! 😂
@@bryceneuberger3460 It's so rich and fleshed out. I used it way back in HS for an English paper 🤣
You cannot kill a god. What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
Can a dead god dream?
Listen, all I'm saying is that with enough high-explosives, anything is possible
Sweet Nerevar!
*Laughs in Kratos*
@@LuccaZa you know what they say: "It is not dead what forever may lie".
Just imagine being a mortal, lesser deadra, adrea, or even a deadric prince and realizing your entire existence is the imagination of a team of game developers that wrote you into existence over 20 years ago and continue refining you to their whims....
I think Talos knew, same for Vivec
@@TheScrootch I like to believe they know what chim is but truly understanding that even atherius isn't anymore real than you are, and your existence is completely plot armor and death is ordained.... and your trying to influence the dreamer to write you well.
So you're just describing Sheogorath
You reach chim when u realize your world and the elder scrolls were brought into existence by a team of basement living virgins 🤣🤣🤣
Lorkhan is actually Todd Howard
This must be why they call Nirn/Tamriel "Arena", not because it is naturally the convention of opposed forced but because it is a lord-less realm that many other beings from within and without seek to claim as their own.
Works for me! A lot nicer than “Bethesda didn’t bother to change the name of their first game after they got rid of the arena and came up with a bogus explanation”. I do like the idea that it has some legit lore behind it, though.
From the Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion, we know that Daedra can take over other realms, and that the only differences between a Daedra and a Daedric Lord are Power Level and ruling at least one Plane of Oblivion. The Prince of Order ruled multiple realms, including the Shivering Isles, before he was defeated by an alliance of the other Daedra Lords.
And, since a mortal of Nirn was able to become a Daedric Lord, that means that Nirnians are, technically, a type of Daedra. Given that we know when a Daedra is killed their soul goes to a big pit of souls to be reborn, potentially as a different kind of Daedra in a different Plane under a different Lord, who is to say that their spawnings aren't different between types of Daedra? I mean, I could see Atronachs just kind of coming into existence, but the Daedroth and the Scamp I could see laying eggs, and human-types like Golden Saints/Dark Seducers or Dremora I could see reproducing similar to a Mortal. The act of being born would then draw a soul from that well into an individual body.
I think it's called Arena because of the first game that's called Arena as a kind of easter egg to the first game
@@jamesmccloud7535 Well, it was kind of a mid-development retcon.
See, Arena was originally going to be a game about actually fighting in the arena against teams from across Tamriel (sorta like Oblivion’s Arena questline). Then Bethesda started adding some side quests and more lore, and decided that was more interesting than the actual Arena, so they scrapped it. They still called it Arena, but explained it away with it being a metaphorical/poetic name for Tamriel. And thank Azura they did, the series wouldn’t be the same were it not for those bored writers.
@@gwest3644 Yeah not necessarily an easter egg, but like a reference to the name "Arena" that they originally came up with
A 5 minute intro before introducing yourself, sounds like a new record to me. Love hearing TES lore while doing dishes :D
Same
My first thought 😄
Bruh. I do the same thing.
LOTR is great to listen to also
i thought i was the only one!
Always wondered why Lorkan isn't worshipped as much as the others, given he implemented Nirn and subsequently paid the ultimate price for it...
"Implemented" nirn lol
Almost all of Tamriel was once elf territory, who demonised Lorkhan for "trapping" their ancestors in mortal form
Lorkhan is underappreciated asf, thats why I have a soft spot for nords. They are the only ones appreciating him.
I guess it's largely because of the Alessian Reforms.
@@slimretro2659 Reachmen do same thing, but they acknowledge that his presence is almost absent. Lorkh is the creator, Namira is the mother, as she gave him space and corrupted him, and Hircine is, let's call it "step-father", who came to guide them instead of Lorkh because of his absence.
I don't think there's any legitimate argument against this. Lorkhan tricked a bunch of daedra into investing in his realm, Nirn, instead of making their own. It's therefore just the biggest and most valuable daedric realm, and as some result of that the inhabitants work a little differently than the denizens of other realms. That checks out.
That would differentiate them from Daedra though, in a pretty big way. It's also suspect that the reincarnation cycle of anuic souls native to Mundus is completely separate from that of the Daedra. If there was no difference between mortals and Daedra, mortals would be banished to the Void same as the others; but this isn't the case. This implies there is a fundamental metaphysical break between mortals and daedric beings. There are similarities, sure, but in the end they're still distinct. Two sides of the same coin maybe, (mortals being the anuic equivalent of the padomaic Daedra) but ultimately separate.
I mean, there's no interpretation needed there, the foundational myth of Nirn is that a great many divine beings came together to create a place that was more and greater than a simple oblivion plane with Lorkhan as it's central figure. To call Nirn a plane of Oblivion denies that Nirn is a higher degree of creation, and that would appear to be verifiably false from all we've seen.
@@TheSuperRatt Well, to be fair, for the soul cycle to seem separate and different from the daedra cycle of death and rebirth you have to assume that the mortal afterlives aren't actually an intrinsically linked part of Nirn, part of its principle creation. We have no way to prove that to be true or false, but I would still argue that this level of complexity makes Nirn something far and above an Oblivion plane
Meridia and Magnus were Magna Ge, which were slightly lesser Gods basically. Meridia was cast out of the Magna Ge for her dealings with Daedra, thus she became a Daedra and created her own realm of Oblivion. The Magna Ge are the Gods who fled Mundus midway through its creation when they had 2nd thoughts on losing their powers. The Daedra never took part in the creation in the first place, because they feared losing their power and immortality and the unknown. The Aedra sacrificed themselves in order to create Mundus, because they grew tired of the infinite and tedious boredom that was being immortal. Lorkhan red-pilled them and showed them that mortality and death leads to the next great awakening and plane of higher existence, so they agreed and created Mundus through their sacrifices. Now all mortals have existence and free will and choice, and death, which grants them a higher freedom and power than the Daedra can ever achieve. The Daedra were afraid of the unknown and giving up their powers and safe spaces, whereas the Aedra were not. So that is the difference between them. Mankar Camoran's claims are from the perspective of a delusional egomaniac cult leader who worships the Elder Scrolls equivalent of the Devil, so take everything he says with a grain of salt haha. Camoran is like the David Koresh of Elder Scrolls lol. Lorkhan/Shor is not a Daedra. He is an Aedra, and he is basically the Jesus of Elder Scrolls.
@@jeremydubeck4439 so are there other gods like Lorkhan then with different plains and etc? It’s very confusing because it’s hard to find a new video is on the creation of all this
Sounds like a "sudden clarity Clarence" moment. "Wait a minute, cereal...is a soup!"
I'm 1000% asking my girl if she wants a bowl of soup for breakfast tomorrow.
Coffee is bean water
@@literallyanythingelseother A quesadilla...is just a Mexican grilled cheese!
Vanilla soy latte is 3 bean soup.
@@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger Slang...is just slang for "stylish language"!
Hircine's hunting the unicorn makes sense now; Lorkhan's "daedric" creation, a prize to hunt for an outside prince.
I like the implications from the book "Sithis". Lorkhan was created by Sithis (in other words, he is a pure Padomaic spirit, unlike the others, who have varying degrees of Anuic alignment) to try to end the stasis that was taking hold in the Aurbis. The various et'Ada were crystallising into permanent forms, rather than simply forming and reforming. Lorkhan's plan was to tie them to a realm in which everlasting existence was impossible. The ones who refused to go along with his plan (now known as Daedra) created realms that were extensions of themselves, "everlasting imperfection" as one text puts it. The ones who went along with it but abandoned the project (now known as the Magna-ge) created their own realm in much the same way (does this mean Aetherius is the Daedric realm of Magnus?). The ones who became the Aedra and the Earthbones stabilised Mundus and killed Lorkhan. They, of course, do not get reborn, but live forever in everlasting imperfection, as do the Daedra lords. Mortals, of course, die. Eventually recycled through the Dreamsleeve to be reborn. Lorkhan then, is the Prince of cycles, of death and rebirth (a role now taken by Arkay). Lorkhan, as is his nature must die and be reborn over and over. As the Madgod is mad, and the God of Rotten Deals is himself conned, so must Lorkhan die, and reborn. Pelinal Whitestrake at least, possibly Ysmir Wulfharth. Just as the God of Revolution can overthrow but not rule, and the Patron of Thieves is repeatedly stolen from, so Lorkhan cannot live for long, but neither can he remain dead.
This is a solid theory. I would love to hear the developers response to this. It's possible that Lorkhan's creation of Mundus was a response to the walkabout that allowed the Et-Adra to subvert the great serpents cycle of death and rebirth that preceded the division of the realms.
This was beautiful and instantly solved many problems I had with the lore.
Is this you Kirkbride?
That sounds like some Elf propaganda right there...
Because we, players, are Shezzarines, so avatars, incarnations of Shezzar (mers call Him Lorkhan). And kalps' cycle is just cycle of Shezzar, ultimate godlike being of Aurbis (not like Sithis, and Anu-Padomay, which are more abstract, or in some way less abstract, and abstracts of those beings are every other beings, Padomay abstracts itself from itself creating Sithis, to know itself better (like we humans do, to understand something, we abstract something from it), and then Sithis abstracted Shezzar from itself for the same sake). And then this whole cycle of destroying a world and creating new one is (with propable, but not certain, remanagment of what beings are what, who's role is who - what mantle what beings shall take) just way of Shezzar, like the world is abstract of Anu-Padomay, and Shezzar its way, its law. So there is not really, in concrete, old worlds, and new worlds, just one world which is constantly changing, using unchanging matter, or ideas. Old and new kalpas makes sense only when we abstract them, but for the sake of world, Shezzar if You please, this is just another change, another fluid stream, not discrete change, but more analogous in some way.
He is Daedroth! Tamriel ae Daedroth!
we look nothing like them though
@@Kirbyroth Beauty is on the inside
@@Kirbyroth they look nothing like each other
I hear this quote
@@Kirbyroth a scamp looks nothing like a dremora
just from reading the title, that's the craziest theory I've heard for elder scrolls
Its kind of the driving idea behind Oblivion
Bruh, that aint the craziest one I've heard. What about Auriel and Lorkhan being the same god that tore out his own heart in rejection of his darker nature?
@@joekaz5198 thats the craziest thing here for me, I've played thru oblivion probably a dozen times and somehow never realized this lmao
@@noxabellus Yeah its pretty interesting. My take on it is that since Lorkhan is dead, Mehrunes Dagon wanted Nirn selfishly for himself. Its essentially an oblivion realm with no prince, and since Dagon is the Prince of Revolution and Change, of course he would want to move in and fill the void left by Lorkhan.
Elder scrolls is set in the far future on another planet after the fall of an interstellar human empire and its enemies lead to the combatants fighting over a backwater planet being stuck there for thousands of years. That backwater planet was Nirn. The failed colony where empires go to die. Before men and Khajiit and Argonians set their feet upon Nirn, another civilization made nanobots to put into the air, these nanobots would respond to the right brainwaves of any sentient creature they came in contact with, making magic. They made AI’s to rule over the planet as their civilization died. The Aedra and Daedra, who could control the nanobots to their whims and create simulated realities inside the nanobots’ computers. Realities in which biological entities could experience through transmitters in their brains. These are other dimensions. Elves were created by these AI’s from men, as creatures of this world, designed to use this magic best. Their brains specifically designed to interact these nanobots to use “magic” best. The Skaal are the only ones who remember some of who they were. That being Christians of the most devout order. They forgot much, but never their God. Shunned by the world for not accepting these lying false gods, the Skaal live in isolation. They are what remains of our civilization on Nirn. How’s that for a weird theory? Remember, the Skaal are the key
I do not approve of Tamriel and Nirn being used interchangeably
This will change once a game features anything outside of Tamriel, which might be never.
While I agree that they aren't interchangeable, I think it's fair to call Tamriel the center of Nirn. It's the "starry heart" after all and holds the literal heart of lorkhan. It's the "Main stage" of Nirn.
From an elven point of view
or Mundus
I always assumed nirn was the planet and Tamriel was the continent, so in this sense nirn is the correct term as they a referring to the planet being the daedric realm
Not gonna lie, I thought "Dream Sleeve" just meant the birth cannal.
i am hoping this channel will gain 2x followers after TES VI release
@nonya business well it is far away but not 8 years
We might need another member to be added to Fudgemuppet in order to handle 2mill subs.
I bet 4 years
@@patrickaycock3655 honestly they dont even need 3 members
It will likely gain much more than that
But... that's already canon, isn't it? Tamriel is basically a bubble in the Warp that was created by Lorkhan and is protected by him through Shezzarines, Towers and guilt tripping Akatosh/Auriel(who is actually a willing protector nowadays, since he showed up in person to stop Oblivion Crisis).
Where can I read more about this?
If you respond I will give you my word a million dollars!
What makes you think Akatosh and Auri El are the same being?
@@ConformingToEmptiness good point. Because the pantheons of each race seem to contradict our understanding of akatosh auri-el Kyne etc some gods seem to be multiple gods when u look at the meaning of their gods.
@@OceanBloke unlike the Nordic and imperial pantheon not many of their gods ascended, aside from one. Ysmir.
I have a different idea on tue “betrayal” by the other aedra.
In many real human mythologies, there is the ritual of sacrifice; Odín is famous for saying “I sacrificed myself to myself, and so became more powerful.”
Skip to the removing of lorkan’s heart, if he was creating a realm with the help of the other aedra, and free will was a part of his realm, of nirn and the mortals, then opening his chest, removing his heart, and casting it into nirn, could in fact simply be a ritual.
This assumes that lorkan’s heart being cast to nirn is in fact necessary for humans to have free will.
Mortals would need essence of lorkan to have free will in his realm.
This would also lead to the idea that the aedra are the actually guardians of nirn and mortals has the being lorkan’s last order.
I've always wondered if Camoran got his Deadric realms mixed up on purpose, or if it was a mistake by the developers.
Every Tamrielic race: Our souls pass on to the eternal paradises of our respected mythologies.
Hist with Argonian soul: Where do you think you're going?
Truth, no rest for the lizards
@@ProffessorYellow unless you're dragonborn
@@xo-1320 huh, fair, do they avoid the hist? Sovngard?
I think we learned that Argonians are the true inhabitants of Nirn, since they are what comes from this world's Chaotic Creatia.
They become trees jk
It should be noted that the usage of a soul gem also has similarity to a Daedra's essence being used to make Daedric equipment. Both amount to the usage of one's being to enhance an existing material, and make it stronger. There's also the reaility that Daedra can breed in a sense, as seen with Xivkyn being a mix of Dremora and Xivilai, making a new type of Daedra, just like Bretons are a mix of Nede and Dirreni. Then there's the little detail that many of the more famous Nords are not present in Sovngarde, despite some of them having plenty of justification to be there. This may mean that the Dreamsleeve is actually the various afterlives, like pocket realms, and that the ones who we don't see are absent due to being born as someone else, like a Daedra could be when killed, reforming as a different type.
Makes sense when you add the fact the nerevarine was the reincarnated soul of indoril nerevar.
@@gregoryturner9530 The Nerevarine was also allowed into this cycle by Azura, same way a Daedra might retain it's old form.
Even in Skyrim, you always get this feeling that the divines aren't nearly what they claim. Froki certainly doesn't care for them, even going so far as to claim that the Imperials stole the gods and refashioned them. To that end, I do wonder if Kynareth isn't really Kyne and if Kyne isn't a Daedra. I would love to see a deep dive into this idea.
Well, if you read the lore, after Alessian rebellion, Queen Alessia was trying to recreate and rename the gods so it's doesn't make their Nord allies angry.
And then, it become the Divines today
One of the most interesting parts of TES lore for me is how divines have multiple versions of themselves that yet differ in significant ways. Like Auriel, Alkosh, and Akatosh. Even then, it's thought Alduin is like a dark aspect of Akatosh and there's many names for the distinction of the two across cultures.
I really hope TESVI continues the trend of the protagonist being involved directly with divine matters. Morrowind had the Nerevarine and Azura and the Heart of Lorkhan. Oblivion had the Oblivion Crisis and the mantling of Sheogorath. Skyrim had the Dragonborn and Alduin and the Elder Scrolls. If we're lucky we'll get another huge insight into the divine nature of Tamriel in the next game.
There are many different "versions" of gods worshipped by different cultures. Think of them like different faces of the same god. Which face the god shows depends on the culture.
Example: Kynareth in the Imperial pantheon (Eight/Nine Divines), which is widespread due to the influence of the Empire; Kyne in the Nordic pantheon; Khenarthi in the Khajiiti pantheon.
The pluarity of gods in the TES have different cultural interpretations, though some are unique and exist in only one culture.
@@antoncid5044 In Nord lore Akatosh and Hermaeus Mora are the same being split in two. Kynareth shares similarities with Boethiah too and given that she's Shor's widow it would explain why she shat on Trinimac.
I like to think that all the gods are daedra in some way. And that the elven divines and human divines are rivals against eachother.
I'm always so grateful for these vids, because it makes my love for the Elder Scrolls so much larger by each vid, because even as a lore fan, I don't know everything nor find everything. I love listening to these vids in the background, and just feel my interest and love for Elder Scrolls grow. Will always be a fan of this channel and look forward to every video
I want the next game to rebuild or resurrect Lorkahn. It would also be nice to see Jyggilag come back.
Edit: I would also like to see Malacath return to being Trinimach.
*Numidium 2: Electric Boogaloo*
Considering "Varieties of Faith" Lorkahn's return would mean some kind of return of Jyggilag .
I doubt Lorkhan cares enough about power or vengeance, he still influences nirn undercover.
Jyggalag is Sheogorath just hit him with the wabbajacki
I like the idea of Malacath and Trinimac seperating or eventually joining together and becoming something better and stronger. Annoys me how the lack of respect both Malacath and Pyrite get from their siblings. Want the lesser deadera princes to gain up and maybe try to start a new cycle, like Alduin. Because doesn't the rank/order of the strongest daedric princes get "reshuffled" if you would? Like, doesn't the weakest prince become the strongest in the next cycle and vice-versa? I SWEAR I heard something like that. Imagine a Pyrite buffed up or Namira or Hircine
The intro made me tear up. Poor, poor Lorkhan.
Eh, shouldn't have lied to the others 👀
@@thalmoragent9344well tough titty i guess.
I’ve always thought of Talos as having somewhat mantled Lorkhan and his ascendancy to divinity re-adding lorkhan to divine worship as a protector of mankind and Mundus. Seems to fit with the Thalmor being so obsessed with removing Talos worship too. I’ve also thought that it’s really cool that not only are the Septims representatives of Akatosh, but also of Talos, and thus Lorkhan/Talos is on an equal importance in maintaining Nirn while it may go unsaid.
I appreciate the effort going into these videos, especially considering how easy it is to just make two-minute trivia videos about basic TES lore
Fudgemuppet crew, GREAT video guys!! The reason I love Elder Scrolls lore is because there always feels like a hidden gem of knowledge is hidden, that when found, shakes the foundaion of everything you originally believed about the universe. This video is one of those highlights for me.
Follow up question though, that admittedly may be better placed in a comment section regarding the soul/dreamsleave/afterlife: How does the theory of mortals being daedra (as well as reincarnation) fit within mortals ability to give birth and create life? Is there a set amount of "soul juice" that can be used up, or is it a finite resource? I always saw mortals as different from daedra due to their ability to create, not just change or destroy, which is especially true in the ultimate act of creation: reproduction of the self. As far as a know, I've never seen minor daedra recreate life, just twist what is already there into forms they desire. I'm trying to think of examples where minor daedra create something completely new, but I can't. I can think of the daedric lords doing such things in the past, but not minor ones. What if this is a unique ability Lorkhan gave with his plane of oblivion to his minor servants?
See, now my brain is going to be doing this all day. I love your content guys. Keep it up!
I think its a finite. Think about how the some aedra contributed so much into creating Mundus, so much so, that they became weaker and some became Mer. Hence why the Dominion want to destroy the 'towers' of reality and commit genocide so that they can achieve higher states of being. The dwemer tried and pulled themselves out of continued reality. Many deadra an beings fight over souls, like the masters who monopolize the mechanics of soul gems. Remember how the dream sleave recycles and reincarnates the souls of the dead much like a computer overwrites recoverd memory of data that has been marked deleted. Canonically the universe is someone's dream cycles where there are constraints to what can be dreamt.
Well this explains why my sweet rolls were always missing and Nazeem seems to be immortal. The damned Nirn is presumably a Deadric realm after all.
Just reading the title was enough to blow my mind
Wait, it’s all just Oblivion and Daedroth?!
- Always has been.
Edit: Nirn could be Lorkhan’s princedom, he’s just a more “special” prince or his “death” makes Nirn different somehow from all the other realms. That’s why the other daedra want it so badly.
I've long wondered if the main player is Lorkhan's will on the world or his avatar. We ultimately decide what is going to happen. We always come faceless, nameless, and from prison, not entirely unlike his heart in Red Mountain or like the gods for which are the planets that circle Nirn.
"Let all know free will and do as they will" could be interpreted as the daedric servants of Lorkhan (mortals) being able to break the yoke of servitude. No longer having to serve a daedric prince the mortals of Nirn would then have free will. This was my first thought when I heard those words in conjunction with this video. Great video FudgeMuppet :)
If Nirn was a Daedric realm and everyone in it secretly Daedra, then why does the "Banish Daedra" spell work.... How do you banish a Daedra from a Daedric realm that it's already existing in?
Maybe the banish daedric spell works by banishing daedra from daedric realms it wasnt born in. This way it wont work on people from nirn but will work on daedra summoned to nirn.
(Banish Foreign Daedra)
@@TheNexler Another problem, whenever speaking with Daedric NPCs in the games they always refer to the player as "Mortal", so if everyone was secretly Daedra and Nirn was secretly another Daedric realm then why would one Daedra refer to another fellow Daedra as "Mortal"?
@@IconProduction01 The distinction was explained in the video. Mortals are Deadra that have a different kind of soul than all other Deadra.
@@IconProduction01 although the theory is most likely wrong, but Daedra call mortals mortal because at first when they die they don't reincarnate in their own realm and when they reincarnate into another body they lose their past self.
The way I always figured it is that Nirn is essentially the same as a daedric realm, except that it was created by multiple princes, so that none of them have true control over it, and similarly they don't have control over the mortals living in it. And the reason the Daedric princes want to control it so badly is the fact that it holds the power of all the primordial spirits that created it, making it an incredibly tempting target for an abitious being like Mehrunes Dagon or Molag bal.
Definitely one of my favorite lore videos from you guys. This was an awesome and thought provoking topic. And if you're into real word theology, makes ES even more of a favorite just for the depth of lore possibility.
This is going DEEP. And I wouldn’t expect anything less from you guys! Thanks for being an inspiration!
The idea of the afterlife being a reincarnation waiting room are interesting. Visiting Sovngarde shows that it isn't shock full of souls but some have been there for a very long time indeed. Maybe some souls are VIP persons that get to stay longer or maybe they are held there because they still have a role to fill? The heroes that originally banished Alduin forward in time where there to help the Dragonborn finally defeat him. After that, having fulfilled their role, they may be up for reincarnation. Ysgramor are still there thou so what is it that he is waiting for? I do not remember meeting his sons. I may have missed them or maybe they have already passed on into reincarnation alread? Then we have the dragur that seem to be trapped in their decaying bodies. Maybe they where not worthy to go to Sovngarde to know peace?
Man I love the Elder Scrolls lore videos y’all do. Absolutely awesome 🤘🏻
Ah yes, 3 minutes gang is a beauty to slot in for once.
is 6 min anything special?
A Dawn's Beauty.
This is my favorite theory & video from you so far. Really, really good one! Elder Scrolls lore is infinitely interesting & entertaining.
Infinitely is a word disservice.
Thank you, Drew, and Scott/Michael as well! I'm taking a course on mythology and mythological archetypes. I'm using some of your videos as a source to write a paper on the Creation myth(s) of TES, and if I'm being honest, this is the most fun I've ever had working on an essay. Really cool. You guys rock!
I like waking up early to a new video
Holy shit, I’m so early. Very excited for this video!
I have accepted this as my own head cannon for the the elder scrolls universe, great video as always.
Oh yes!! Another video and very timely too! I'm so intrigued by Lorkhan lore right now and this just made the interest flare even more. :D
First off, you have to remember the difference between scales.
Plane>Planet>Continent>Province>Hold>City
Mundus is a plane
Nirn is a planet on the plane of Mundus
Tamriel is a continent of the planet of Nirn, on the plane of Mundus.
These terms ARE NOT interchangeable.
Second, it has always been stated that the only difference between Aedra and Deadra were the fact that the Aedra helped in the creation of Mundus, hence why they'd be "our ancestors" and Daedra are "not our ancestors."
The difference between mortals and daedric spawn (my term so as not to confuse between the Daedric princes and their minions) comes down to the fact that daedric spawn are products of their daedric realms, while mortals are independent of Mundus.
This is shown by the fact that mortals can make deals with the princes and thus travel to their realm upon mortal "death". The same thing can be said to happen when a mortal dies and goes to their afterlife (Ie.: When worshipping Shor, and they go to Sovengard). Mortal "souls" travel to the afterlife of the diety (read Aedra or Daedra) they chose to bind themselves to, or to the Soul Cairn if they're unlucky, while daedric spawn ALWAYS return to their home realm upon "death".
Nirn does seems to be like a daedric realm who knows what’s Lorkhan’s true motivations are. Now Lorkhan and Talos are one and the same so Nirn is now Talos’ daedric realm despite the fact they achieved Chim.
Remind me, whats the impetus behind Talos being one with Lorkhan again? That sounds familiar but I can't quite put my finger on why.
@@TheReason2Breathe when Tiber Septim was alive, from their (Hjalti Early Beard and Ysmir Wulfharth) actions, they mantled Lorkhan and once they all died they became him so now Lorkhan and Talos are the exact same being and all of the derivatives.
@@NightHealer8284 That's right, thank you. I love the idea of mantling in the Elder Scrolls universe. Such a cool concept!
@@TheReason2Breathe yes mantling is cool someone should make a story mod revolving around the obscure lore of the game series
@@NightHealer8284 thats a very baseless theory
When that post conjuration clarity hits
Thank you for taking the time to find all this out and put it in a video
It would explain how the dragonborn keeps respawning after a giant sends him into orbit.
Indeed
I did read all of the tomes yesterday after completing the Dagon's quest in Skyrim.... what a coincidence
Was there anythin you found that lines up with this theory?
Well I don't think my knowledge is bigger than Drew's about this topic to find something else he didn't say already
I've got to say i love watching your Elder Scrolls lore videos, so interesting, ES definately has some of the best lore out there :)
Yes! Yes! Yes! This is the best (non-kurzgesagt) video I have ever seen. I'm going to watch it again right now. Well done.
Quick question! What was the mod used for the shrines? They look fantastic, especially the backgrounds
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75662&ved=2ahUKEwilxsr72aXtAhXCXSsKHTkoC_4QtwIwAXoECAQQCA&usg=AOvVaw1i1_7WjPxzTbR6UsnQ4cni&cshid=1606583830418
@@ra_alf9467 thank you bro
That makes me curious about mortals though: they are reborn through procreation, while daedra are simply uh... re-bodied. Can a Daedric Prince, even Lorkhan, excert that much influence in his realm that they change the very nature of the "original spirits"? Although, I guess one might make the arguement that the chaotic creatia, which takes a different form depending on the Plane, is the sperm and egg: just enough that together, they form a new body around the soul (or vestige) but not enough for it to take on the morphotype's inherent pattern completely: that is why you're not getting clones of dead people popping up or why Nords don't have Redguard-looking babies (would one perhaps say that the parents, from whom the creatia comes, is that determines their looks? So that the "solidifed" creatia of an adult becomes the basis on which the new soul builds its own form).
I asked the same question in my comment. My leading theory is that this is the ability of the soul vs. The daedra goo Drew talked about in the video. In my mind, the soul is a special ability given by Lorkhan to his minor daedra to also be co-creators. It combines the self with the resources of the dreamsleave to create new beings. They themselves are able to create, like Lokrhan (albeit with some help... also like Lorkhan). Its how mortal populations are able to grow vs. The minor daedra of other realms being (as far as i know) stagnant.
This is my theory anyways :)
@@TheReason2Breathe Great, this makes sense to me.
Depending on how you interpret the events of morrowind, it would seem we do get clones of people popping up. They forget themselves, but their destiny is still tied to their past
Honestly this was a pretty incredible video. Phenomenal theories with lore and examples. Cameron is 100% onto something lol
I'm SCREAMING inside! What a magnificent theory, and spectacularly presented!!!
I love the 'Thalmer shutting down the Towers' idea. But this idea suggests the Towers do not keep the world up, but Lorkhan's existence does.
Suppose the Towers were created by the divines to keep Lorkhan imprisoned/banished/torn apart/whatever happened to him. Maybe shutting down the Towers leads to the world reverting back to what Lorkhan intended and freeing him.
The Thalmor working so hard to free a daedric prince who would eagerly destroy them. What irony that would be.
You could do a video talking about the fate of the Aedra or even a podcast and discuss if they are all dead and why do the elves and men worship dead gods
Because Memory keeps the spirit alive
Congrats on your best video yet! This was mind blowing
Great video! Thanks for uploading!
Imagine clicking on this video without having any knowledge of the Elder Scrolls series.
I wish my Oblivion looked like that :(
Love your stuff mate. You are my go to for morning chills after a long night shift 👌🇬🇧
Keep it coming
I love listening to these videos late night while I game on the other monitor! Thanks!
Theory on Argonians;
They're Nirn Daedra that have at least started to realize just what they are.
With that;
Banish Daedra is a spell that apparently only Nirn Daedra have been able to figure out. If the other Daedra knew about this, they wouldn't have been so afraid of the Argonians during the Oblivion Crisis.
A question about this theory: If it was so, that the mortal plane's just another realm of oblivion born from the essence of Lorkan himself, then why would he actually want/need help of the other et'ada to create it? Would this rather work out with the claim that Lorkhan was sent by Sithis to destroy the "ever-imperfect stasis" that started filling the void by differenciating creation once more as claimed in "Sithis"? Then, also why would the Aedra actually agree to help him like in the Imperial view of the creation (that stuff with Shezarr teaching them to be mothers and fathers), it wouldn't be quite necessary for them to sacrifice most of their power to expieriece those things since they could have just created an own plane. In the end, there sure are a lot of similarities between the mortal realm and a realm of oblivion, however, the joint effort to create it and thereby including the essence of all the Aedra makes them differ from another
Perhaps the desire to cooperate (or deceive if you're a knife-ear) in the process of creation is a trait wholly unique to "Lord" Lorkhan. Maybe as an antithesis of Mehrunes desire of revolution/change and Molag Bals desire to dominate, Lorkhan's sphere is the melting pot of co-creation. Whether he needed it or not, perhaps Lorkhan is the king of collaborative content.
Quite well written though on a side note I do not think that void is empty, we know that it houses a variety of creatures, shades, mortal souls, and it has it's own magic. Also it is said that divines who wish to create first need to make room for it within the void.
Likely to steal the Aedra's powers to give his followers (mortals) ability to create, in contrast to lesser Daedra
@@TheReason2Breathe i love this answer and it makes mortals procreation make more sense within the theory as well
"I think the answer comes down to perspective."
It always does.
Wow, you’re so close to 1 million! We can’t wait!
"All a mere fart in the wind, ineffectual superstitious dribble spat out & rechewed again & again by priests & prophets through the ages. The only one who really effects change be it by light or darkness is the unnamed traveler. That's the god we should venerate & fear." -- Drunken Nord over heard in a tavern close to Bruma
First!
Song ends
Hello beautiful 😍
You are Lorkhan. You like being dormant for the most part. You like a little challenge when you wake up and manifest youself. All the strife, chaos, war... it is perfect for you. Through the hardships and challenges, you arise as unnamed heroes through the ages. The world you created is perfect for your adventuring spirit, and you can always change it if you want (Console and Modding).
5:25 ... I can hear that thing turning in my mind. Thought I’d be over it by now 😜
Great video 🍷
Is Lorkhan the combination or Jygallag (Spellcheck) and Sheogorath.
No, Jyggalag was Sheogorath's non-cursed precurser. Lorkhan's the god who came up with idea of creating Mundus
@@TheScrootch hey don't forget all you have to go by is the unreliable narrator.
Places tin foil hat on top of tin foil hat already being worn on my head.
In all seriousness, Sheogorath appears to have both mythological and thematic ties to both Sithis and Lorkhan. He embodies the chaos and unpredictable change of the former, and the creativity and trickster nature of the latter.
@@stephenskinner7207 yeah i was refering to the more symbolic aspects of his spheres. Yep sithis lorkan are both on the chaotic sise obvioualy sithis, but i do aacribe to the theory that lorkhan is a daedra. Or at least in terms of ascribingnto chaos and change. But obc. In terms of not giving up his life force... Or maybe he tricked all the other aedra to give their life ebergy for the creation of mundus but tried to snake out of his obligation to as well. And thats why the other aedra were so pissed off.
Yeeeeees! Finally! My headcanon has been legitimized!
One difference with my headcanon though is this; The difference between mortal death and daedric death lies in their nature. As a creation of multiple et'ada, their souls are subject not to the whims of the prince of the realm, but rather to the laws written presumably at The Convention. The Aetherius being a collective wellsprings of the Aedra and the respective afterlives are likely reflections of each Aedra's individuality. It follows therefore that the only differences between a soul and a vestige are entirely due to the differences between Anu and Padomay. And due to the fact that both souls and vestiges come from the Aurbus, which is itself the overlap of Anu and Padomay, that both souls and vestiges are made of both Anuic and Padomaic animi.
This validates my thoughts when I placed the Lorkhan video in my Daedra playlist 😂 thank you!
absolutely OBSESSED with his presentation
Last time I was this early, the Dark Elves were still the Chimer.
bruh last time i was this early, nedes were still in atmora
@@rakanamir- last time I was this early the daedra were laughing at Lorkhan for suggesting Mundas.
I just hope that the next game has something to do with ending the Soul Cairn and finding a different way to enchant weapons :)
that would be cool
I miss Jiub!
My thought process when Cameron was ranting at me in Oblivion was pretty much identical to how in that one episode of DBZA Popo is tripping on acid in the background the whole time and just mumbling "all these squares make a circle" to himself. And you just sort of tune him out 'cause he doesn't make any sense, but then the camera pulls back, and you actually look at the Lookout for a second, and you go "oh my God he's right!"
Great work Team. Thank you.
You shall help me through the last few minutes of my work
Lorkhan = Jyggalag
Sheogorath never messed with Lorkhan because Sheogorath and Lorkhan never existed at the same time, because one was turned into the other. The Aedra removed his heart hoping to free themselves from Mundas and turned him Daedra, then the Daedra drove him mad to prevent him from regaining his place has the True God of Tamriel so they could try to claim it as their own.
THIS.... IS... MIND.... BLOWING.... man love your channel
Awesome video, it blew my mind.
Plot twist:YOU(THE PLAYER) are actually Lorkhan this is YOUR daedric realm but since you are weak right now you can't manifest or choose not to. That's why you always start the game from nothing. No history, no family, nobody knows who you are etc...
YOU are the daedric prince here.
By that logic, Nerevar was an aspect of Lorkhan too, since you are his reincarnation in Morrowind. Also explains why Shor is missing from Sovngarde...entering as a mortal prevents everyone there from recognizing you. I wouldn't be surprised if taking on mortal form prevents Lorkhan from accessing his memories, too.
Bs
wait a minute. maybe the nirn project was lorkan trying to BREAK the immortality of the daedra and give them access to the greater powers that lay within the afterlife realms.
I have always loved this theory, good tobse others exploring it in depth
Love your lore vids! Thanks!
I feel like the elderscrolls is just mirroring our real world spiritual attempts to understand life
damn fudgie you found another one???
This is such a fascinating theory, I love it!
I loooved that intro. The first five minutes had me completely engrossed