Why F1 Drivers Use WEIRD Racing Lines
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2023
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This is the mathematically PERFECT racing line - the precise arc through a corner that allows racing drivers to carry the MOST sped through the bend. The widest arc, allowing for the MOST SPEED.
So, why do racing drivers IGNORE this?
If they are at the TOP of their game - why do they not drive on this geometrically perfect line? Well, let's dive into every type of racing line - to explain.
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My favorite part of track driving is that as you learn about one corner it inherently changes following corners. If you nail 1 turn perfectly for the first time you are going to get to the next corner faster so now your braking point changes at least. You spend a lot of time trying to construct all those points when learning a track, and hopefully you manage to be close to your ideal more often than not. Then there are the aliens that get 90% of a track "right" the first time and it's very quickly about tenths and hundredths of seconds of gain.
I think most F1 champions belong to the "alien" category somewhere, because getting 90% right on the first lap means you can refine your driving line, and other lines for overtaking and defending (like Max in Brazil 2016 on Rosberg), giving you a huge advantage on your opponents
It's always important to keep in mind two corners a time depending on the part of the track, it helps me when learning specific tracks
To me these aliens are the ones who seemingly use all the same lines, but they are just able to brake later, corner faster, and get on the throttle faster. Usually it's down to smoothness and knowledge of weight transfer.
I can summarise your entire explanation with one word, Speed.
@@wexalian I think all F1 drivers are probably aliens in that regard. The top 1% of F1 drivers probably get to the high 90s in their first lap and are able to maintain much closer to the ideal for lap after lap after lap.
Us mortals are always chasing.
The rally racing line is also often different. Since most corners in a rally stage are blind, it’s preferred to hit the apex later to improve visibility around the corner. Specially in events with no recce, like baja and raid
it's also so much less ambiguous haha, if you can't see the road then you're too early
It also depends on the surface.
On gravel rallies, you usually end up following the tire lines set by the cars driving the stage before you. That's because those other cars have already swept the gravel away from the road. So even though the previous tire lines might not be the "ideal" line, they offer more grip and less friction resistance. It's sort of like following the rubber braking lines in circuit racing.
That's usually why rally drivers dislike being the first or even second driver on a fresh gravel stage.
Rally is also a balancing act of grip (you have very little) and power (because you have no grip, you can't use it) This is why almost every corner is taken sliding. (i.e. rotate the car, and stay on power.)
@@jfbeam Yet it is still mostly about controlling the balance of the car.
This is the exact method taught to police officers during pursuit training. The cars are generally bigger and less nimble but higher in HP which is better for straightaways. Vision around corners as well as safety entering and exiting the turn.
Slow corners are where newbies lose the most time, because they're usually followed by straights and also the car spends a higher % of the lap time during the slow corner as a result of the slower speed.
Yes, it all comes down to ratio of seconds, not meters and how long you keep the advantage in speed. 10 seconds of corners with 5 seconds of straight? Focus on getting out of the corners ASAP. 5/10 ratio, focus on the exit.
Yep. I’ve seen people argue that someone has way more power so must be illegal because they’re pulling away down a straight. But, often it’s the difference in someone carrying a lot of speed in and being slow off compared to someone being slower in and faster off.
Ergo the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. A throwaway corner, not a little braking hump before it what matters is getting setting up for the scary (don't spin!) fun downhill out of it. Sets you up for the tight bend (don't spin!) onto the front straight (watch the marshals tower!)
Not all seconds are equal in racing when comparing them to where the second was gained or lost. Most cars are set up to maximize the speeds on the straights where per unit of time more distance is traveled. 0.1 second gained at 60 mph in a turn is not the same as 0 1 second gained at 200 mph. It seems like 0.1 seconds any where on the track would overall be the same as time is time regardless of speed but distance traveled means per lap not per any random .01 at all places isolation. That .0.1 seconds at speed helps far more than 0.1 s going thru a slow turn . Take off 0.1 seconds b4 a car next to u at a light and the other car might be a couple feet ahead of u at the nose or even a half carlength ....at a illegal speed on highway both cars wide open and let off accelerator and other car will shoot ahead instantly. Its the OVERALL lap time that counts not all parts of the track are equal. Normally a higher turn speed carries more speed exiting corner ulimately having a bigger gain of top speed at the end. But sometimes its better to go slower thru a turn to maximize the next more important section. Thats whats so cool about racing is the mathematical perfect arc may NOT be the best. So many other variables . If it were pure math the quickest way around the track would be the shortest distance and inside line thru the entire lap but in a real world situation .....that goes out the window. Esspecially if there are banked corners.
@@waynegarfield6607good example are those videos of Jordan cox with his civic against v8s in australia.
My guess is also F1 cars have so much power, that time on wide open throttle is more important than mid corner speeds.
Depends on the car and how much DF it generates at each stage of the corner, and how good it handles those in low, medium and high speed corners.
Back with the blown diffusers in the Vettel era, they had UNREAL downforce on throttle/corner exit. So they would prioritize getting on throttle sooner, so late apexing was more ideal.
in most cars having a good exit is more important then having as high as possible minimum speed because the ideal line isn’t that slow on minimum speed but if your not as skilled a more geometric line is quicker because most new people over slow the car to get the early rotation
This is also where the type of track comes into play. If there are a lot of mid- to low-speed corners, a car that performs well in them will be faster overall than a car that doesn't but that has more top end speed.
For example, they've been showing a lot of driver comparisons during qualifying at F1, and you will see the top two drivers compared. One is typically faster in the corners and one is typically faster in the straights. Generally, is the one faster in the corners that is faster overall.
Yup which is why oversteer is preferred over understeer as oversteer helps with rotation of the car better allowing for better exit speed
You rather V off a corner than U off
For heavier cars like touring cars you would prefer understeer as that helps with apex speed momentum which is more important for a car type like that than a F1 car
Only at front limited tracks oversteer might be an issue for F1 cars due to excessive front wheel slip angles causing excessive tire wear
Don't forget, the faster a F1 car goes through a corner, the more downforce it generates by the wings and therefor the more grip it has. So it really comes down to every single corner / combination.
I would love to see Scott demonstrate ideal, geometric and karting lines in a car for a video, like driving a whole lap using each line style and comparing their times
Im sure he will entertain the idea if you can secure a track for a day to do the shooting 😂
Not sure about geometry because circumstances are very complex
@@user-jh6vt8vx4v it's not like he has to rent out a track, sim racing exists
Go faster longer ,Fangio .
I've been doing this in racing games forever, my driving style has evolved to this. I set up for the final corner, might be a touch slower the start, but I make up for it on exit and straight away speed. Granted every track is different and requires it's own technique.
When my son introduced me to a driving game I blew his lap record by several percent on my first lap. He was impressed that I was drifting. A million miles on the road you learn something. These days he gets an Uber almost every day (long story,) he's 36 and I'm still his favorite driver.
When riding my dual-sport on gravel hairpins I noticed that I get quicker the more I "V" the corner.
To an extend where I almost come to a complete stop at the apex, turn the bike and throttle out again.
You can see pro riders do the same if there is no berm.
It is the grip/power ratio at the extreme. My bike has close to 50hp, but I have grip for maybe 20 of those.
Taking the geometric line it feels like ages you spend in the corner waiting for the bike to straighten up so you can open the throttle again.
That's what Scott explain in this video, but also you have to remember keeping your brake temperature at best not too cold or hot unless you wanna get lock up or go to gravel. 😅
A tight supercross track might have a couple sections where a rider would square off a corner as its sonetimes called, to guard the inside or make a block pass but normally a smooth arc with a smooth uniform throttled increasing slighty as to minimize rear wheel spin is ulitamately the fastest. In the 80s and 90s US motocross riders were squaring off coners more and tge European style was to " Road Race" the track and sweep the outside to carry monentum. We did beat the Euros more back then but it was more about the agressiveness of SX that we started, the shorter races 30 mins US vs 45 mins So the less fatiguing arc method worked as to save energy, however after time almost all winning riders today use the sweeping arc style over inside , pivot ,then hard acceleration because even tho its on dirt the lines of a pavement course work as well. Its all about putting the power to the ground and hooking up vs spinning your wheels
Really well explained! Definitely one of the more important concepts in racing.
Just one small thing. It seems like you swapped the two clips where you explained the line through the Villeneuve chicane at 9:26 and 9:34.
Exactly my thoughts :D
Love this. Very succinct for the amount of ground it covers. The last bit about corner complexes and sacrificing one corner to set up the next is so often overlooked in videos like these. Years ago I watched a recording of racing school video in which the instructor said “the most important corner on any given track is the last one before the longest straight” and it changed the way I looked at racing lines forever.
I instantly went to the classic Gran Turismo track Deep Forest. While that initial hairpin is intimidating for beginners, the real monster is the very last corner. With most cars, the corner takes just the slightest tap of the brakes to take cleanly. Screw up the exit speed on the final lap, and congrats, you just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Its interesting watching a GT car and a formula car through a sequence of bends.
Whereas a GT car with moderate downforce may have to really open up the entrance to the second corner, sometimes a formula car can just ride around the inside kerb of the second corner flat because the higher speed allows it to carry way more downforce.
I come from a short track speed skating background, granted its oval track racing. The tactics often cross lines from auto racing and short track speed skating.
There are many different lines in an oval, depending on drafting off the skater ahead of you and how you can set up the pass.
Agreed, as a kart racer or racing fan overall, short track is one of the most exciting sports to watch. Mind boggling to see how ice can produce so many levels of grip, just judging from the skaters' behaviour during a race.
You just took me back a _very_ long time! Very interesting to see the comparisons between the types of racing. I did think that it would be much more fun in Abu Dhabi if they gave the drivers go karts instead of F1 cars 😂
As my rally driver dad taught me, "fast in, slow out; slow in, fast out." Whichever was most suitable for any given corner was the one to choose. Though he did spend about half of my learning taking me on rally "tracks" (mostly mountain and forestry given where we lived. He'd actually been one of the designers for our section of the Round Britain Rally back in the early 60s). This was in a 2lt Datsun Laurel, weighing over 1.5 tonnes with no power steering. I was 17, quite strong for a girl but I'm not particularly tall, so I had to rely on him (at 6ft) to be my co-driver and tell me when to turn on some sections because I couldn't see over the steering wheel 🤣 Not much fun on a single track mountain pass with 90° turns!
(I had proper "pass my test" lessons; Dad did the "how to drive when you're up to your eyes in it" lessons. Over 41 years - if you include the learning, 41 next January otherwise - I have used Dad's teaching more often than I would want! Still got a clean licence, though 😉. Fortunately, I have used Mr Picton's far more!)
You guys really need to install content manager, shaders patch and SOL for your Assetto Corsa
Seriously your videos are gold. I’ve been wondering about this and guessed that the sims have geometric racing lines as ideal, and not dependent on the car which would seem incredibly complicated. Thanks!
I’m reminded of T3 at Zanvoort and T1 at Qatar. The first race back at Zandvoort drivers started out on the “racing line” but explored the track by expanding the corner into the banking which ended up being faster. Qatar was a bit different but at T1 we saw a lot more overtaking once drivers figured out how much grip they had using the wider line. Exciting stuff to watch unfold.
Mugello T1 was similar to Qatar T1, many overtakes on the outside with camber. It combines the traits of both Zandvoort and Qatar
Also, the wider line the faster
You should also generally expect the line to change over the course of a race because they will actually be depositing enough rubber on the track to affect the grip surface and optimal lines over multiple laps.
Yeah Alonso was the first to discover the faster line at T3 Zandvoort and all the other drivers copied him
@@hamza-chaudhry Alonso always had the wider lines everywhere
I Learned to Drive back in high schook. We didn't have driver education in school to cloud our minds with useless information. I studied (and my school grades reflected it) the textbook "The Technique Motor Racing" by Grand Prix driver Piero Taruffi. This is very complex book it was every bit as inclusive is any other school subject. It not only went into the correct driving lines, to things like coefficient efficient of friction between a car's tires and the road on a road surface. I learned a lot and it helped me later on. I won my first Race 3 hours after I got my driver's license. And I won a championship my first season, while racing a Stingray. Which is definitely not a beginner's car.
I actually learned something new here: the newbie line 😊
Very informative, this actually all sounds very logical but that's because it's very well explained 👍
Great race coaching as always, but man this video is a masterclass in editing. Well done!
The way corners are knitted together is fundamental too - identifying where a theoretically suboptimal line through a corner maximises the potential for a subsequent corner or combination that is more important for constructing the fastest possible lap-time. We called them 'sacrifice corners' - there weren't a lot of them around, but those that exist are often key to unlocking a track's fast times.
That was a good breakdown actually! The different levels and stages of racing line remind me of the progress made over the years with my own driving when it comes to skill, grip and performance! I've definitely hung out in all of the "camps" that you outlined haha
It also takes more nerve to head straighter towards the wall and later on the brakes at the same time. If you make a mistake braking, you have no track left on the line that gives you the best exit.
Downforce and lift make this even more fun to figure out as the handling dynamics can change significantly with speed.
Used to play lots of Gran Tourismo back in the day. Getting a smooth racing line was always so satisfying.
I’ve watched your entire instructional series but this video right here just took me to the next level. I can’t wait to get back on “sim” track!! I’ve been driving every car more or less to the geometric line wondering why I’m usually a so so racer, I tend to have my best luck in higher grip low power cars too just like you mention. I will try and push harder and see if I can figure out how to get some more competitive times.
Can you do a video on the hand/wrist positioning differences? Like how Nico Rosberg, Jean Alesi, and Jos Verstappen held the wheel higher up for less strain on the wrists and turning more with their arms?
So much incredible info packed into one short video! The newbie line is exactly what I used to do for many years. If you don't think too hard, it almost makes sense- you want to go fast, so why not turn into the corner as soon as you can? Only once I started watching motorsport and saw the ideal line did I realize I was doing it exactly backwards- too much speed into the corner, turning in too early, and exiting like a tortoise while running way wide.
I think most road cars tend to be grip-limited, certainly in the case of any cars I've driven, and the V-shaped ideal line works well in that situation. Gentler on road tires and lets you get on the power sooner for a quick exit. I honestly didn't even know about the theoretical line until recently, with all the talk in F1 about V-shaped vs U-shaped driving preferences.
9:26 I think the two clips at Imola are swapped by mistake
Yeah that caught me off guard too 😂
Yeah grip is limited by more than just lateral force, finding the ideal line should mean solving not for widest radius but for minimum time through a corner, which must take into account acceleration and momentary velocity values. One is a geometric solution, the other is a solution found through calculus.. the latter being far more detailed because it can accurately describe a less idealized, more realistic model.
In short, all ya gotta do is master everything there is to the continuity of splines! All racing lines are splines of a particular order of continuity--solving around that would allow for adjusting things parametrically from there to solve for any combination of conditions.
It boils down to the shape of ggv diagram. Tyres having maximum grip in combined loads (braking+lateral) favor aggressive braking lines ,tyres having maximum grip in non combined load favor a round corner
Did I miss the talk about slip angle being the biggest contributor to a different line?
The fastest way around a corner is when the rearend is sliding just a hair giving you more steering angle.
On dirt since it takes awhile for the vehicle to react, its about getting the vehicle properly rotated for the exit of the turn.
You are right every vehicle has its own way of best handling it around a corner.
Great video. Always found it interesting that F1 drivers often use different lines
Yep, corner exit speed, because it counts all the way through the next straight. A couple klicks faster in the middle of the corner won't gain you much time, but down a straight for several hundred meters it does.
Great info. And these things are hard to explain to someone who doesn’t spend time at the track. Glad my coach could explain the information about multiple corners or chicanes and how it isn’t always the fastest lap time by taking part of that section the fastest, but more on setting up the corners to maximize your exit momentum and speed. It’s also why looking at sector times alone, doesn’t tell the whole story
Great lesson! After years of track days, agree exit speed rules. When in doubt, late apex. Sergio has occasionally been guilty of early apexing too fast, and going off track.
Would love to also hear you talk about slip angle
Also, it’s so easy to understand what turning does to momentum and speed if you just take a kart and push it in a straight line, then try and push it when you turn the wheels and see how big of a difference there it
One of your best videos. Very well explained.
Cars turn with all four tires, not just the front. Given a traction circle for each contact patch, you cannot accelerate hard and turn hard at the same time. It's just that simple.
To get on the gas you straighten the corner exit. For this you push the Apex later. Which means you must push the turn in later, so you might as well brake later. How much depends on how much power you need to use.
F1 aero downforce does allow turning late in the corner exit after some acceleration in some turns. Depends on the speed.
I really enjoy your video content.. coz not only I can learn new thing. i can relate with what previously I did right but never understand why it was right at the 1st place.
i uses "newbee" technique in bahrein turns 9-10. i brake super late for turn9, then i'm very early into turn 10, but this way i brake only once (and continuously) for the 2 corners.
Even more pronounced in MotoGP, especially back in the 2 stroke days. Still really fun to watch Formula Vee or Spec Miata carrying speed.
I experience this most visually in Real Racing 3 on mobile when doing time trials, it shows your previous best lap in a ghost, and the difference in lap times in progressively bolder green/red colors, so when you hammer down earlier than normal coming out of a corner and you suddenly notice a big burst of dark green in your lap time difference number out of the corner of your eye, you know that changing to an early apex made a huge difference for the long straight. It’s hard to translate into text but actually playing it, it’s all very natural.
First I like to thank you for your great explaination on why idel line differs a bit (more or less) from the theoretic geometrical line.. But for me the main reason is even a bit different.. The geometric line only can be the fastest solution if following applies:
1 centrifugal force (friction) from road, tyres and downforce is same everywhere in the corner.
2. My car is able to go faster / arrives faster at the beginning of the geometrical line than the biggest possible line allows
3. I am able to break to exacltly the maximum speed of the geometrical line speed at the beginning of the line..
Then it would be fastest, but as easy to guess all those factors do not apply to a real turn.
The line driven, by riding a bit (more or less) over the beginning point, then breaking down to slower than that speed, beginning the turn a bit more tight towards the apex and the accellerating out on a even wider line is easier to get, more save to do no mistake and gives you the chance to adopt the speed and acceleration to the changing conditions of the track, your tires and even the aerodynamics (for example by car in front).
Furthermore as all drivers do it like that, the grip niveau of that ideal line gets higher every round for a dry race, it must become faster than the geometric line..
I am totally with you on how motorpower (ability to accelerate) influences the exact form of the line driven.
And last but not least, a tyre regularly loses ability to provide side guideance force aka centrifugal force, if it at the same time has to transfer acceleration or brwaking force.
Interesting video Scott. I'm planning to go sprinting next year (2024). It will mainly be at Curborough. I've got into the habit of trail braking through the first half of Fradley Hairpin based on the way Martin Donelley taught me to take the Rindt Hairpin at Hethel a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if that's the fastest way round in my Elise.
I do need a lot more track time in the wet though, as all bar one of a handful of track days has been in the dry. I've taken on board your advice about the wet racing line.
I ride a motorcycle on the road, and using that ideal line would on a right hand bend potential put your head over the centreline which could have a rather poor outcome. Doing a cornering clinic at a local track we were encouraged to use a line more similar to the race driver, leave the turn in late, and the apex is much further around the bend than you initially think, and apply a modified version of this to the road to remain safe.
The geometric line was used in the Sterling Moss era, it was in his book. For the same reasons as when you're talking about go karts.
The late apex line is also used (a lot) by motorbikes as they have abundant acceleration and a touch less mid corner speed compared to a well setup car. For a "on the road" line though, keep tight on exit and only use the wide part for extra safety, then you've got that margin to correct, the risk of a head on or running off is too great for motorbikes.
Your thumbnail is a little cheeky there!
But you did mention the thing that it made me think of immediately at the very end.
I went to driving school at Barber Motorsports Park and my instructor referred to turn 14 there as "sacrifice corner" because taking the racing line there would put you in a non-ideal spot for turn 15 - which leads to the main straight. So we turned in tighter at 14 to get us best exit into 15 to the main straight.
He also told us to not always "use the whole track" on wide corners in a race because "the guy behind you will divebomb you and you lose your spot. If you tuck in, you'll both be slow, but at least you keep your place."
There is one other type of line through a corner: distance cutting line. It is rare to use, but there are some instances, particularly in low power cars, where the line you take doesn't give an exit speed or a corner speed advantage. In these cases you can save time by drawing a line that travels less total distance. It can also be used sometimes when spending less time in the corner is better than more exit speed.
Great video. Very close to in depth.
Well it's good to hear I've naturally learned a moderate amount of this, that being said I really do best in high mechanical grip, low power vehicles, but turns out in rallycross I'm doing pretty well. In 2/3 corner complexes I tend to be too aggressive early, but long complexes seem to move me into a flow and mellow it out a little and I can excel at them. Very frustrating how my racing overall is far for e racing enthusiast even ... But for the life of me I can't consciously teach myself where the time is on the track it is oddly frustrating.
Awesome, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences..
Scott, I really appreciate your videos!! In this one though I'm confused with the video for combo corners that starts at about 10 minutes in. In the first video you show the car staying on the left mostly exiting the first turn to the left allowing for getting on throttle nicely exiting the second turn to the right but your commentary says it's the "best line for the left overslowing for the right getting an awful exit". That commentary seems to fit the second video in this sequence. I think the video got edited incorrectly and isn't synced with your commentary.
This explains why I am better in the mazda than I am most cars.. I always try to drive to the geometric line, as I coast alot.. I am fast, like 2:17 at spa in acc. but not rapid, and I think this has just taught me how.. corrr this video has taught me a serious amount... really thank you Scott.
Hi Scott, thanks for great content, and good luck with the inversion challenge.
A quick one on driving styles, and the video you did about Max and Schumacher’s style evolution for the F1 cars of the 2020s.
It was a great video, but I picked up a discrepancy with Peter Windsor’s analysis of Max’s driving style, which he describes as extreme ‘short corners’ with early braking, early turn in, and superior rotation. This seems to be the opposite of your assessment of Max/Schu, in which you talk about late braking and efficient rotation in order to ‘V’ the corner.
These can’t both be right, can they?! Can you help explain?
Thanks for the upload Scott! Love the racing line videos!
Man the Citcuit of the Americas GP corners after the first hairpin is the most challenging complex of corners it gives me so much headache maximizing that stretch of race track in games
Great explanation 👍
One thing to add is that the ideal line shifts from the theoretical line more or less proportionally with the car's capability to accelerate. The easier it is to get back to speed, the more the ideal shifts. If the car cannot pick-up speed fast, the ideal is closer to theoretical as you need to conserve as much speed through the corner.
The most amazing and fun corner i witnessed was in the pass seat of a stock engine RX8 with Olins coilovers at turn 6 of Laguna Seca. The driver (ex racing driver) snapped the car into the corner while kicking the brake and then took the corner with the steering wheel straight all the way through! Using the slip of the rear tires to do the turning at over 90miles an hour. Nuts but so much fun.
I asked why and he said the car does not have much power so i need to keep the wheels straight as much as possible round the track and the speed up in the corners.
Sometimes the best way round a corner is when your smile is the biggest.
A slightly shallow entry is a thing too. IIRC montoya talked about this. Also Schumacher on the Bennetton. Dive in, flick it, and out.
TL;DR: weight distribution and the fact that (racing) cars have better brakes than the engine so it makes sense to get on the throttle earlier which means you should try to rotate the car earlier in the corner.
At Silvertone in 1992 we watched a feeder serireis race for Rover's They have the same racing line in wet or dry due to high traction and grip.
After years of playing sim racing games I deff use a similar racing line. The textbook racing line through hairpins always felt off to me. I always figured you want to get on the throttle as quickly as possible coming out of a corner and that would make up for the slightly slower corner
great video!! thank you
Great video did you ever race in Toronto Canada. If so I might have seen you
I've always thought about taking the geometric lines, but definitely worth keeping in mind about ideal lines 🤔
This is brilliant and confirms my street racing days nearly a decade ago.
listen to this dude! i have been for a while now and it's honestly why i'm getting into the top splits.
Short version is to minimize the time spent not accelerating. The sooner you’re pointed in a direction you can apply power (generally), the better.
I love this video though. Excellent reduction to ‘simple’ terms while touching all of the finer points that make racing an art.
Summed up in a PS game , you want to make the track as long as possible so you can go fast longer. And set it up so you are breaking before and accelerating out of the corners.
we also cant forget that the minimum speed of a f1 car is still extremly high cause of the incredible downforce it produces so taking those sharp turns wont affect a lot, the only problem is you are in danger of somone having a lunge in the inside
that's not true. downforce doesn't make much of a difference in low speeds and formula 1 cars are extremely long. hairpin corners like the first corner of spa can slow them to a crawl
true ive anilsed more, the cars loose speed and gian speed extremly fast. so what they want to do is go pedal to the metal as fastest as possible even tho if they have to break more before, did you know just lifting the throttle in a f1 ar it will descelerate more than some type of lamborghini who pushes the brakes to the max@@GraveUypo
There is also the line you end up on in traffic, especially in the hobby racing segment since the cars vary so much. I call it the "don't get T-Boned by that guy who is burning up his breaks"-line.
I'm reminded of the video you did a while back about Fernando Alonso's time with Renault in the 2000s (I think) where he would just break the front wheels loose when entering a corner because the car had a wonky engine but massive rear grip, or some other set of weird conditions like that. I'll have to go review the video. 😂
The point is, sometimes even the Quirks and Features™ of an individual car can affect your race line.
The hairpin at suzuka, looks like it's better to miss the apex than start braking before straightening the wheel on the slight right hander.
I learned something one day at Shannonville when allowing an actual professional race driver to do a few laps in my car. I was feeling pretty cocky as my laps felt considerably faster than his. He was braking earlier and entering corners slower than I was. But the stopwatch doesn’t lie. I would go in on the ragged edge, and as such couldn’t get on the throttle nearly as early as him. He would be full throttle at the same point I was still braking. I learned that day, it’s not how fast you go into a corner it’s how fast you come out. That small increment in speed is carried all the way to the next corner, making for a faster lap.
What's really fascinating is how racing lines change as the race progresses, as cars get liter and the track conditions literally evolve over time.
Prior to the ad segment I was disappointed and thought I wouldn't learn any more than what was shown in the thumbnail. However, immediately after the ad roll I learned so much and gained incredible respect for professional racing drivers across the board. I had no idea even the supposed simplest idea of driving-line decision-making was so complex and crucial to good lap times!
i cant articulate what it feels like but
you did.
thank you sir 👏
We saw a change of track surface at Singapore gp this year! F1 drivers complained of the change of grip.
Longterm F1 fan here, but this is something I hadn't really considered before, so apologies if this comes across noobish. Your passing comment about wet and dry lines gives me to wonder how often per season the surface of any given racetrack gets cleaned of ingrained rubber - and who sanctions it? FIA? \m/
I wonder this as well whenever I watch FP or qualis and the commentators talk about more rubber being laid down leading to better lap times... does it just wear off due to weather between events? Or does it get deliberately cleaned?
Ok, now I have more confidence in my driving techniques on Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon games. Thank you for explaining all of this!
lol immediately noticed Van Gisbergen's burnout, that was one monster Bathurst 1000
Great episode
Holy shit never thought about corners in this much detail. Thanks
The video excerpt you used at 0:27 shows the actual ideal line (euler spiral) in white, and the geometric line in yellow. As you can see, the white line does not rely on late braking and straight acceleration. The line you describe at 1:53 is a "super late apex" line which is demonstrated to be slower by that same video you used at 0:27. While a super late apex allows you to accelerate earlier in terms of where you are in the turn, you will not be accelerating earlier in TIME vs an Euler spiral trajectory. With a super late apex you will be compromising minimum speed for the sake of straighter acceleration, but you will actually never catch up to a car following an Euler spiral trajectory because you will be accelerating at the same point in TIME but from further back in the corner and at a lower minimum speed.
So why do racing drivers use that line then? Well... They don't. Just look at Charles Leclerc's 2019 pole lap and tell me his trajectory through La Source looks even CLOSE to the red line you showed at 1:58. ruclips.net/video/EXlK_GDRZNY/видео.html
The video in question that disproves super late apexes which I highly recommend watching: ruclips.net/video/N8qBdOs0s1E/видео.html
I also highly recommend their blog which goes into much more detail. The accompanying blog post to that video is here: www.paradigmshiftracing.com/racing-basics/the-racing-line-four-elements-of-a-perfect-corner#/
A lot of the "super late apexes" he shows are exaggerations to prove his point. Nobody takes la source like that, but it is better to take a slightly later apex to maximize exit speed. He just exaggerates it for those who don't know what late apexes are can understand.
@@victornag5230 no, taking a slightly later apex is not better. While it can maximize the speed of the car at the exit of the curve, it will not be faster in terms of time. The car taking the euler spiral will have a lower speed at the exit of the curve, but it will get there earlier. By the time the late apex car gets to the exit, the euler spiral car would just be further ahead on the track at that same speed. The late apex car will never catch up.
Its not black or white. To say one line method is better or faster than the other is riduculous at least and bs at most. There are different situations where even in the SAME corner on the same day may be different. Last lap last turn while leading, the guy behind ( me,) is right there as we start to enter corner. If u brake late and enter apex late chances are yoy lose as i dive to the inside and totally screw up my lap time as i slide, countersteer and slide some more but i get ahead of you and push u wide and block u from passing me as we race to the finish. But yet during the race it may be overall quicker to seeep the outside. .esspecially if it saves the tires. There are countless variables at work to suggest one line is always the fastest. Track surface, tire wear, grip, banking, temp, rubber on ground ( sometimes later in a race the outside that was faster may have so much loose rubber pellets that it feels like gravel) what portion of the race at the moment, carxm setup that day, stagger, driver ability and ones behind you. Arguing over or implying because in one particular race joe blow from idaho took this line so it must be the best is like saying an uppercut is better than a straught punch cause u saw a fight and that one punch u saw knocked out Tyson . Its complicated and varies depending upon the circumstances at that particular instant.
@@waynegarfield6607 you’re actually right. This is also why every good driver doesn’t drive the same. U can watch Sainz and Leclerc drive and even tho they have the same car, they sometimes take different lines and approaches to corners.
Is this a reupload or an updated version video? I remembered seeing a video on this topic on this channel before...
Great intro to lines.
However you missed some points, for example: in non fig 8 tracks, there are always more of one handed bends to the other.
So it probably but not always, makes sense to set up the suspension for the magority of corners and rely on driver skill for the sub optimun opposite corners.
Relying on driver technique to balance the car will dictate the type of line to attempt.
You didnt comment on opting STRATEAGICALLY to drive on the racing line or to abnormally dive for the lesser grip surface.
This can be used to good effect.
Front loaded suspension is harder to control and stop regardless of type of vehicle. Hence stopping and accelerating best done in straight line.
Great explainer. I always wondered what the difference in distance traveled is between the perfect line, the ideal line, and a theoretical line that minimizes total distance over a lap (i.e., tight to the inside turn with gradual straights that point to the next inside of a turn). I suspect that the ideal line is actually the longest distance traveled but is negated by the speed difference.
Yes and no, it was explained in the video... Asuming, that your car has (extremely high capability on acceleration and decelleration force, the track and your tyres provide same grip level everywhere, you are able to break down to exactly the maximum driveable speed and you arrive at any given turn faster than the highest driveable speed, then the way with the longest ways through curves and the shortest straights would be the fastest, as in theory the way through a circle with twice the radius is twice as long, but driveable at 4 times the speed).. But as easy to guess this preconditions are seldom met..
On the other side, with a very slow car the really shortest way over the track would be the best one... In principle the line over a formula one track, which u would take with a bycicle, asuming u are not able to bike faster than 30 km/h..
The ideal solution is obviously something between those two extremes adopted to weather and the vehicle u drive
It's simple : they take an apex on a turn based on the track ahead.
Yes, you can go around a turn the fastest possible, but you may not be set up right to take the next turn the fastest possible. F1 drivers account for the entire track, every corner to produce the fastest possible times for the entire run.
So sometimes a slightly slower apex sets you up for an even faster apex on a faster turn making a total sum of the two faster than normal.
They also have to account for the car they are driving. Exploit it's advantages.. if you have a fast acceleration but poor cornering, you take less g's on a turn to maintain traction on exit so you can put the power down sooner and longer.
Oh and a lot of these cars get better downforce in faster speeds so sometimes a faster entry produces more grip which goes against normal impulses bc aerodynamics is blood magic... >.>
Great tips. Im going to try this in the highway with my Honda civic hybrid. Wish me luck.
you need to take in consideration the tire grip factor, if you can put the foot down quicker, youll be faster down the straight
Hi good sir. Can you discuss those drivers in F1 that DO use constant-radius arcs? You see it a lot in Mercedes-era Bottas (funnily enough not in his Williams or his Sauber era imo), in Sainz, and Button. Those 1 wheel movement, hold the arc, before releasing the corner?
It's all about the total package envelope of the car. The whole point is to minimize the OVERALL speed loss of the turn. Everything effects everything else. Even if you're well within your traction circle and in neutral steering... anything you do to gain speed will effect the energy you carry into/through subsequent corners.
I feel like Brazil turn 2/3 and the final right turn are good examples of straightening early to get more speed down the straights
About the wet line / dry line, does rubber accumulate on the track even if it's been wet or raining already?
For example, would drivers start following the dry line even on a wet track and later switch to the wet line?
Before the video starts im guessing its just because of an F1 cars handling ability that it allows the car to take these lines
I would assume the biggest effect on this, is that cars can usually produce close to the maximum theoretical braking force at all times, through all four wheels. But they produce significantly less than maximum power at most times and only through two wheels.
I could be mistaken but I believe we shared a race in the MX-5 at VIR the other day. If it was you, just know i thought it was awesome, and your presence on track adds an extra layer of legitimacy to the race lol. (Edit: I don't know why I put lol at the end of that, ignore that)
This is a very interesting video!😁
And also it depends of the situation: if you need avoid an other driver/debris, and you do it better than drivers ahead of you, you can gain significant amount of time