The best part of this video is the fairly accurate interpretation of the section which is identified as Okugi-no-tachi, which shows what Matsudaira actually wrote rather than how modern videos of Shinkage-ryū show Okugi-no-tachi. Apart from the video link given above, this other video ( ruclips.net/video/pDzCqsJ2KYY/видео.html ) effectively addresses the objections that the interpretation of the Okugi-no-tachi is inaccurate by showing the actual descriptions of Matsudaira and comparing it with the actual performance of the present Shinkage-ryū and the recreation. In particular, the video shows that the modern performance of the following Okugi techniques--Kōjō, Gokui, and Shinmyōken--differ radically from the description found in the e-mokuroku as written by Matsudaira, while the above reconstruction is arguably closer to the e-mokuroku. However, although this video has striven to interpret as accurately as possible the descriptions by Matsudaira Nobusada, the interpretations are not as accurate as they should be for two main reasons. First, the interpretation does not take into account the actual surviving kuden of Shinkage-ryū as preserved by the modern school and presented in the school's various videos. This is seen especially in the first kata, Ittō-ryōdan, which does not follow Matsudaira’s description at all. But most importantly, the interpretation seems to be reliant on a translation or translators who are unaware of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū's actual terminology, e.g., the translators are unaware that the stance in Yaegaki is indeed called Hasso, as what other schools call Hasso is called In-no-kurai in Shinkage-ryū, and Shinkage-ryū’s Kasumi-dachi looks way different from other schools’ Kasumi. Also, the Jōdan of Shinkage-ryū is actually a high “Chūdan” (i.e., Jōdan-no-seigan) wherein the kissaki points up, while what other schools call Jōdan is actually called Raitō, and so when in Usen-saten the text says “打太刀より上段の清眼に” the video above incorrectly shows the uchidachi raising his sword to Raitō. And there are many more instances like this. Also, there is the issue of how 十太刀 and 和卜 are transcribed as "Jūtachi" and "Waboku" respectively rather than the proper "Tōdachi" and "Kaboku" respectively, which seems to betray a reliance on the translation of Sato Hiroaki than independent translators who are familiar with how Shinkage-ryū terms are properly pronounced. But that being said, the above video is a better approximation of what the kata of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū appeared as at least in 1707 when Matsudaira wrote in the descriptions than to how Yagyū Shinkage-ryū does it in 2024, and I would argue that this video is closer to what Yagyū Sekishūsai intended in the e-mokuroku.
Also, in the original e-mokuroku, what is now known as the "Okugi-no-tachi" was not labeled as such, instead it was considered part of the Tengu-shō, with the 4th kata series called the "Ni-jū-nana-kajō-kiriai" (廿七箇条截相), which at that time was considered the actual Okugi-no-tachi of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū and which was taught solely by oral tradtion, or kuden (口伝). I had hoped that this video could have at least mentioned the existence of this particular kata set which in the e-mokuroku differed considerably from Yagyū Munenori's list in the Heihō Kaden-sho or in Yagyū Jūbēi's Tsuki-no sho.
I’m a Japanese who practice Shinkage ryu. I’m surprised these moves in this video are very localized and changed. Many people will say “this is not Shinkage ryu”. I agree with it. But if these localized moves are effective and practical, it’s a new good martial arts. Some moves are very interesting for me because the story of the moves are changed. I’ll try to win them in my mind.
@@natoriryu Guys, do yourselves a favour and stop misleading people. The text you are referring to was not meant for practitioners of Shinkage Ryu. It was only meant to give a vague idea, a hint at what the kata may look like. But it is not instructional , because it leaves out important details which are part of the transmission process (hence the word "Kuden").
A shining example of why traditional Japanese martial arts have to be orally transmitted, teacher to student. Unless you just want to make stuff up that has no resemblance to the techniques of the actual tradition, aside from the names.
There is no such a thing as "the actual tradition", when it comes to kenjutsu. Japan displays (at least) 700 traditional kenjutsu or bugei ryuha. Each one is "the actual tradtion" of itself. Some are absolutely realistic and obviously efficient, somme don't look like they are to people who are not taught in them, some have obvously totally drifted from the original teachings. I have been taught in more than one kenjtusu ryuha and I have been lucky to practice the Kobayashi Ryu no aïkiken for twenty years. The many similarities in these kata from shinkage ryu and what was taught by Kobayashi Hirokazu and is still taught by André Cognard demonstrates perfectly the filiation between Shinkage and O Senseï Ueshiba's aïkiken (jujst as his Aîkijo comes from jukenjutsu and Hozeoïn ryu no Sojutsu)... The extreme efficience of Kobayashi Ryu aïkiken taught through more than 120 kihons speaks for itself and for Shinkage. THIS IS A REAL THING.
@@eriglebrundelabouexiere472 You're dead wrong with your assessment. Of course there are 'actual traditions' to pass on, otherwise there would be no need to label them e.g. as Katori, Kashima or in this case Shinkage Ryu. And Morihei Ueshiba didn't have Menkyo (license) in any Kenjutsu tradition. So it's quite amateurish to cite him or his students as authorities in this regard when they're factually not.
@@mirko-g1x You obviously didn't notice that it's not the same to write "the actual tradition", and "actual traditions". Please, read my comment again with a little more desire to understand it. Domo arigato!
@@eriglebrundelabouexiere472 I would recommend the same to you since you seem not to have a proper understanding of Koryu and their transmission. For example, there is an official line of Katori Shinto Ryu, which is endorsed by the current Soke and which differs from other lines in execution and other details. Still this line can be rightfully called "the actual tradition" (of Katori Shinto Ryu that is), because they can prove Menkyo Kaiden among other things. The same goes for other traditions like Shinkage Ryu where the Soke line, the main line, is still extant and can rightfully be called the actual tradition (of Shinkage Ryu in this case). So please stop your silly semantics game.
This long and rigth imturpotion of teaching yagyu shinkage ryu sword figthing it take time let snik in some form are in kenjutsu the wrist cuting and back of the neck .... thank you
These videos are EPIC, brother!! 3 separate camera angles. Close ups of the cutting target areas. Visible footwork demonstration. Really awesome man. I train Iaido in the Kobudo style. None of these haters on here even train, and you guys are 100X the sword fighters than they can dream of being, while watching demon slayer for the 500th time....
I had no idea there was a backup channel this has been cross posted to. I blame myself. I must have tripped some algorithm that this has been recommended to me. Well whatever, no reason to repeat myself here. Well, maybe just the cliffnotes: This isn't Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. If ye want that it's still around & going strong. Numerous lines of it even! Find a group & go train.
@@natoriryu I've already joined the conversation, at length, on 3 videos on the other channel. Is this jawn run by someone other than Mr. Cummins or something? But in answer to the question it differs at the part where it says "this is an oral transmission." I'm aware Mr. Cummins likes to downplay the importance of Kuden as "just more details" but since he is not a koryu practitioner, and seems to neither know nor care how Yagyu Shinkage Ryu is actually trained, he's got no idea what he's talking about. Even if I didn't think it was a problem getting to the broad strokes of how Owari Yagyu does things now from most of these descriptions (naturally changes have happened), what these gentlemen are doing is bereft of the underlying logic of what makes something Shinkage Ryu.
I can see this as a video I will reference for further research. As I am told, my first sword instructor had a background in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. Can't really be sure we did not train these kata and he did have a tendency to exaggerate and out right fabricate his background, to make himself sound much more educated and skilled than he really was. Not taking anything away from him, he was a very skilled martial artist and taught very good classes.
this vids while the second person do a attack and get locked like a dummy while the first person do two or three movements get me so confused like, this response only works if your oponent crave the sword in the ground? the movements must continue by reflexe, demonstrating the advantage of position by the knowledge of the movements.
The technique is performed interestingly and in principle not bad, but what does this have to do with the Shinkageryu technique... can I ask who and where you studied with? This is more like how I see this technique, but not the Shinkageryu technique. It would be good to learn how to perform the technique itself first
@@johnnemo6509 It is cool & I apprefciate that old kenjutsu kata are being researched, but it to my mind looks like modern Kendo, which is not traditional kenjutsu. So it is like bad modern Kendo, yes. Modern kendo has its own interior logic - shinai striking & fencing & kata - but kendo kata is unlike kendo fencing with shinai. Bokuto is not shinai. Why strike with bokuto like it is shinai? & other aspects that confuse kendo with kenjustu just looks bad.
Bokuto are just sword simulators, same goes as shinai. If a sharp edge landed on you, your skin will tear open, your tendons will be screwed. The whole idea not that deep
@@tertia0011 thanks for the explanation sounds like you are comparing different things, with Kendo as a competitive sport and differentiating good and bad with how well it does in competition. to Kenjitsu kata. It would be more appropriate to compare this with the kata of the Nihon kendo renmei. Modern sport kendo technique has adapted to its tools and rules. use of the shinai and its construction removes a number of considerations that are retained with kata performed with Bokuto or live blades: curvature of blade and the use of positive and negative space to control the center line, the purpose of different hardnesses of the construction in different areas of the blade, use of the draw cut and coring. if you watch closely these principles are included in this demonstration, it's kind of like saying Judo kata looks like bad modern competition judo because it does not share the same purpose, saying it looks like bad modern kendo's a superficial analysis akin to saying a fork looks like a bad spoon. Respect to all.
![Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Heiho Kenjutsu [4K 60fps] - 47th Traditional Japanese Martial Arts Demonstration](/img/1.gif)
Please see the full documentary here for your questions answered.
ruclips.net/video/m6szRiFJgYs/видео.html
The best part of this video is the fairly accurate interpretation of the section which is identified as Okugi-no-tachi, which shows what Matsudaira actually wrote rather than how modern videos of Shinkage-ryū show Okugi-no-tachi.
Apart from the video link given above, this other video ( ruclips.net/video/pDzCqsJ2KYY/видео.html ) effectively addresses the objections that the interpretation of the Okugi-no-tachi is inaccurate by showing the actual descriptions of Matsudaira and comparing it with the actual performance of the present Shinkage-ryū and the recreation.
In particular, the video shows that the modern performance of the following Okugi techniques--Kōjō, Gokui, and Shinmyōken--differ radically from the description found in the e-mokuroku as written by Matsudaira, while the above reconstruction is arguably closer to the e-mokuroku.
However, although this video has striven to interpret as accurately as possible the descriptions by Matsudaira Nobusada, the interpretations are not as accurate as they should be for two main reasons. First, the interpretation does not take into account the actual surviving kuden of Shinkage-ryū as preserved by the modern school and presented in the school's various videos. This is seen especially in the first kata, Ittō-ryōdan, which does not follow Matsudaira’s description at all.
But most importantly, the interpretation seems to be reliant on a translation or translators who are unaware of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū's actual terminology, e.g., the translators are unaware that the stance in Yaegaki is indeed called Hasso, as what other schools call Hasso is called In-no-kurai in Shinkage-ryū, and Shinkage-ryū’s Kasumi-dachi looks way different from other schools’ Kasumi. Also, the Jōdan of Shinkage-ryū is actually a high “Chūdan” (i.e., Jōdan-no-seigan) wherein the kissaki points up, while what other schools call Jōdan is actually called Raitō, and so when in Usen-saten the text says “打太刀より上段の清眼に” the video above incorrectly shows the uchidachi raising his sword to Raitō. And there are many more instances like this.
Also, there is the issue of how 十太刀 and 和卜 are transcribed as "Jūtachi" and "Waboku" respectively rather than the proper "Tōdachi" and "Kaboku" respectively, which seems to betray a reliance on the translation of Sato Hiroaki than independent translators who are familiar with how Shinkage-ryū terms are properly pronounced.
But that being said, the above video is a better approximation of what the kata of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū appeared as at least in 1707 when Matsudaira wrote in the descriptions than to how Yagyū Shinkage-ryū does it in 2024, and I would argue that this video is closer to what Yagyū Sekishūsai intended in the e-mokuroku.
Also, in the original e-mokuroku, what is now known as the "Okugi-no-tachi" was not labeled as such, instead it was considered part of the Tengu-shō, with the 4th kata series called the "Ni-jū-nana-kajō-kiriai" (廿七箇条截相), which at that time was considered the actual Okugi-no-tachi of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū and which was taught solely by oral tradtion, or kuden (口伝). I had hoped that this video could have at least mentioned the existence of this particular kata set which in the e-mokuroku differed considerably from Yagyū Munenori's list in the Heihō Kaden-sho or in Yagyū Jūbēi's Tsuki-no sho.
I’m a Japanese who practice Shinkage ryu.
I’m surprised these moves in this video are very localized and changed.
Many people will say “this is not Shinkage ryu”. I agree with it.
But if these localized moves are effective and practical, it’s a new good martial arts.
Some moves are very interesting for me because the story of the moves are changed. I’ll try to win them in my mind.
These are direvt interpretations of the emokuroku so please read the original.
@@natoriryu Guys, do yourselves a favour and stop misleading people. The text you are referring to was not meant for practitioners of Shinkage Ryu. It was only meant to give a vague idea, a hint at what the kata may look like. But it is not instructional , because it leaves out important details which are part of the transmission process (hence the word "Kuden").
Thank you all very much.
Most interesting; precise and dynamic!
I've not seen grip-switching in kata before! Looks most effective for confusing ones opponent.
A shining example of why traditional Japanese martial arts have to be orally transmitted, teacher to student. Unless you just want to make stuff up that has no resemblance to the techniques of the actual tradition, aside from the names.
I agree
There is no such a thing as "the actual tradition", when it comes to kenjutsu. Japan displays (at least) 700 traditional kenjutsu or bugei ryuha. Each one is "the actual tradtion" of itself. Some are absolutely realistic and obviously efficient, somme don't look like they are to people who are not taught in them, some have obvously totally drifted from the original teachings.
I have been taught in more than one kenjtusu ryuha and I have been lucky to practice the Kobayashi Ryu no aïkiken for twenty years. The many similarities in these kata from shinkage ryu and what was taught by Kobayashi Hirokazu and is still taught by André Cognard demonstrates perfectly the filiation between Shinkage and O Senseï Ueshiba's aïkiken (jujst as his Aîkijo comes from jukenjutsu and Hozeoïn ryu no Sojutsu)... The extreme efficience of Kobayashi Ryu aïkiken taught through more than 120 kihons speaks for itself and for Shinkage. THIS IS A REAL THING.
@@eriglebrundelabouexiere472 You're dead wrong with your assessment. Of course there are 'actual traditions' to pass on, otherwise there would be no need to label them e.g. as Katori, Kashima or in this case Shinkage Ryu. And Morihei Ueshiba didn't have Menkyo (license) in any Kenjutsu tradition. So it's quite amateurish to cite him or his students as authorities in this regard when they're factually not.
@@mirko-g1x You obviously didn't notice that it's not the same to write "the actual tradition", and "actual traditions".
Please, read my comment again with a little more desire to understand it.
Domo arigato!
@@eriglebrundelabouexiere472 I would recommend the same to you since you seem not to have a proper understanding of Koryu and their transmission. For example, there is an official line of Katori Shinto Ryu, which is endorsed by the current Soke and which differs from other lines in execution and other details. Still this line can be rightfully called "the actual tradition" (of Katori Shinto Ryu that is), because they can prove Menkyo Kaiden among other things. The same goes for other traditions like Shinkage Ryu where the Soke line, the main line, is still extant and can rightfully be called the actual tradition (of Shinkage Ryu in this case). So please stop your silly semantics game.
Magnificent. And somebody with menkyo to teach the Shinkage-Ryu has a dojo in Philadelphia.
I'm thankful for your video. It shows that without menkyo kaiden holding lineage of koryu is extremely difficult.
Fantastic! All Kata from this book in this very good quality.
We are safe from domain expansion with this one
Quite interesting. thank you very much for posting these
Looking at this, it makes sense back then the kata would be more pragmatic and less esoteric
I’ve read about all of these In sword and mind and it’s crazy to see them acted instead of my own visualization
これは正統な道場ですか？柳生新陰流の型の動きをトレースしてるだけのように見えます。
This long and rigth imturpotion of teaching yagyu shinkage ryu sword figthing it take time let snik in some form are in kenjutsu the wrist cuting and back of the neck .... thank you
Magnificent study of this School!
These videos are EPIC, brother!!
3 separate camera angles.
Close ups of the cutting target areas. Visible footwork demonstration. Really awesome man.
I train Iaido in the Kobudo style.
None of these haters on here even train, and you guys are 100X the sword fighters than they can dream of being, while watching demon slayer for the 500th time....
This is excellent I want to join wow cool skills and martial arts
I had no idea there was a backup channel this has been cross posted to. I blame myself. I must have tripped some algorithm that this has been recommended to me.
Well whatever, no reason to repeat myself here. Well, maybe just the cliffnotes:
This isn't Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. If ye want that it's still around & going strong. Numerous lines of it even! Find a group & go train.
Instead of trolling join the conversation. Please forward where you think it differs in the text in Japanese please
@@natoriryu I've already joined the conversation, at length, on 3 videos on the other channel. Is this jawn run by someone other than Mr. Cummins or something?
But in answer to the question it differs at the part where it says "this is an oral transmission." I'm aware Mr. Cummins likes to downplay the importance of Kuden as "just more details" but since he is not a koryu practitioner, and seems to neither know nor care how Yagyu Shinkage Ryu is actually trained, he's got no idea what he's talking about. Even if I didn't think it was a problem getting to the broad strokes of how Owari Yagyu does things now from most of these descriptions (naturally changes have happened), what these gentlemen are doing is bereft of the underlying logic of what makes something Shinkage Ryu.
I thought Shinkage Ryu seiho doesnt have any vocalised kiai and employs the fukuro shinai except for Empi no Tachi?
A master of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu can fight at close range with a samurai sword and even win against a bear or a firearm.
Isn't that the guy from Ogawa Ryu?
Yes
I can see this as a video I will reference for further research. As I am told, my first sword instructor had a background in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. Can't really be sure we did not train these kata and he did have a tendency to exaggerate and out right fabricate his background, to make himself sound much more educated and skilled than he really was. Not taking anything away from him, he was a very skilled martial artist and taught very good classes.
this vids while the second person do a attack and get locked like a dummy while the first person do two or three movements get me so confused like, this response only works if your oponent crave the sword in the ground? the movements must continue by reflexe, demonstrating the advantage of position by the knowledge of the movements.
All Koryu must be passed on directly otherwise it is meaningless
That’s really not true at all. In fact research shows that’s the opposite
@@natoriryu What research? Your amateurish guesswork? Please cite any valuable, authoritative source that can corroborate your claim!
@@natoriryuno. It doesn't
The technique is performed interestingly and in principle not bad, but what does this have to do with the Shinkageryu technique... can I ask who and where you studied with?
This is more like how I see this technique, but not the Shinkageryu technique.
It would be good to learn how to perform the technique itself first
I've always been nuts about Yagyu Shinkage ryu. The kata and bunkai are completely no nonsense and need little to no interpretation.
いかにも外国人がやってるようなめちゃくちゃな型だな、あまりにもむちゃくちゃ過ぎてコント見てるみたいだ。
それにこの絵の型は甲冑の型なんだから袋竹刀で実打する練習に変えないと怪我するし、実際に相手を打って体勢を崩す位までやらないと意味ないよ。
新陰流を学ぶにはまずは構えと歩く練習から始めた方がいいと思うわ。
What a amazing dojo ! beautiful !
Not really Shinkage ryu...just a bad copy...
Menudo experimento... habiendo escuelas tradicionales de Kenjutsu que aún existen... todo menos buscar un maestro serio...
Why is v sauce on there?
Looks like bad translation… i mean they dont have the wings or the nose from the pictures… 🤣
Haha sorry
Guys for the love of god traditional japanese martial art had no left hand
Yeah, this literally looks nothing like Yagyu Shinkage Ryu 😂
Korrydo
El señor de la derecha parece estar más tenso que su bokken.
Cool. But looks like bad modern Kendo.
How can it be both cool and bad kendo? Unless you think bad kendo is cool?
@@johnnemo6509
It is cool & I apprefciate that old kenjutsu kata are being researched, but it to my mind looks like modern Kendo, which is not traditional kenjutsu. So it is like bad modern Kendo, yes. Modern kendo has its own interior logic - shinai striking & fencing & kata - but kendo kata is unlike kendo fencing with shinai. Bokuto is not shinai. Why strike with bokuto like it is shinai? & other aspects that confuse kendo with kenjustu just looks bad.
This can not be modern kendo. It is a direct translation and demonstration of the 1707 Matsudaira text.
Bokuto are just sword simulators, same goes as shinai. If a sharp edge landed on you, your skin will tear open, your tendons will be screwed. The whole idea not that deep
@@tertia0011 thanks for the explanation sounds like you are comparing different things, with Kendo as a competitive sport and differentiating good and bad with how well it does in competition. to Kenjitsu kata. It would be more appropriate to compare this with the kata of the Nihon kendo renmei. Modern sport kendo technique has adapted to its tools and rules. use of the shinai and its construction removes a number of considerations that are retained with kata performed with Bokuto or live blades: curvature of blade and the use of positive and negative space to control the center line, the purpose of different hardnesses of the construction in different areas of the blade, use of the draw cut and coring. if you watch closely these principles are included in this demonstration, it's kind of like saying Judo kata looks like bad modern competition judo because it does not share the same purpose, saying it looks like bad modern kendo's a superficial analysis akin to saying a fork looks like a bad spoon. Respect to all.
8:23 good