Why I Hate Screenplay Beat Sheets by Larry Wilson
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2018
- In this Film Courage video, screenwriter Larry Wilson (Beetlejuice, The Addams Family, Tales from the Crypt) shares how he intensely dislikes screenplay beat sheets but will write one if obligated under contract.
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I stole my method from Alex Garland: open a new document, write down the story beats (10-15 short sentences), and start writing. As I reach a beat, I delete it. This way I have mile posts yet the path I take to get there can be reimagined a thousand times. I like that freedom. It's the same thing I do when traveling.
Marie B ..nice ..thanks for sharing .
I like the idea of this method a lot, thanks for sharing
This man is the spokesman for my soul. If beat sheets help you, then use them. If they don't, then don't. The idea that we all have to be creative in the same way is ridiculous. Do what works you. The worst advice I ever got was that I NEEDED to outline everything. I tried, and found that all the creative energy I'd had was gone. It was months before I could actually write anything again...
Even Stephen King doesn't outline his plot. And well, this works sometimes and other time, it's gold. I always prefered his shorter works, especially the stories in Night Shift.
I thought it was just me.. all last year, I just couldnt finish my script because a producer ask me did I use a beat sheet. I shut down when trying to fit my story into it. Mentally I shut down. Wow.
Thank you for your comment! Nothing but blessings!
@@TheBlaqros3 One tip you could try is to reverse the process. Write your script first the way the helps you to be the most creative, then just pull the beats out of them afterwards. This is tricky to pull off if your director and/or producer want to see your development throughout the creative process.
Agreed. I think that structured creativity like this exists for the sake of the non-creatives who are paying for it. I can see the purpose of beat sheets in that respect. That said, I never outline when I write. I write and it evolves, I may go back and re-write, but the process is entirely internal.
Yes, we can do the way we want. ^_^
I find best sheets and outlines extremely helpful. Just because it gives you a general sense of where you’re going. Even if you change things, which you definitely will, it helps to know where you are generally headed in the next scene or the next act or whatever so you know you’re not completely derailing yourself and your story.
It’s like what Darren Aronofsky said in THR Roundtable, screenwriting is like sculpture where you have to slowly chip away to reveal your art. I’ve been trying both ways and trying to find out what works best for me
Axel Jimenez Nice illustration. Think Michelangelo said it first with the statue of David. Whoever sculpted that anyway.
I needed to see this. I was doing so well with getting a story out but once I tried using the beat sheets, it killed my motivation and passion behind my story. Having a basically map helps but a perfectly "8 beat sheet" ruins everything for me.
I can’t tell you how much I love this! I only heard of Beat Sheets a few months ago in a writing group. Since then, I’ve been feeling guilty, or like I’m not being all I can be as a writer, because I don’t use them, and when I think about using them, it fills me with absolute dread. I’m definitely a gardener and I’m thrilled to be one 😊
I totally hear you. Several years passed before I could go on writing screenplays with the way my brain works.
I dont outline, I dont follow a 3 act structure. I just write the story as it happens
I believe the more you actively think about your story, the better it gets. An outline is just a precursor to your first draft.
Thanks God, someone is teaching us to less mechanize the writing process. So many formulas and equation has done best to shut God know how many minds. With standard recipes everyone probably can cook a dish, yet despite all the brilliance of recipe gurus, everyone will cook the same dish with different tastes. The taste comes with love, with passion...out of some inner motives
Beat sheets increases my productivity by leaps and bounds. Although, my story evolves beyond the beet sheet.
bingo. ie, do both
Same here. To me outlining is just breaking down the moral core of the story. And once I know what I want to communicate, I just let it rip.
The best writers seem to not outline as much. It's more work to create as you go, but usually gets a better result. Or maybe it's just what suits your personality. I write and create as the story goes.🆑
I felt like he stole my thoughts. So on point. Thank you film courage.
I needed this. Thank you. when i outline i have a hard time to create the screenplay. But when i just know the theme and what i want to convey.. i write more freely and stay engaged. But i am also trying hard to understand the Structure of story telling to engage audience better
the key to a good beat sheet is to make the BEATS as OBSCURE as possible and OPEN and VAGUE - This makes u DIRECT THE SPIRIT and not the STORY - this will ensure that u stay creative yet at the same time to ensure u hit all the effective dramatic points that r designed to elicit the maximum emotion out of the viewer..
Love this interview
Lovely interview.
"Architects and Gardeners" - I can't tell you how well that explained why I get so frustrated with my own writing! Lol! I WANT the security of an outline, yes, but once I start putting pen to paper, the thing takes on a life of its own! I'm not lazy or crazy! But that doesn't mean my writing doesn't follow an inherent form, either. I'm a Gardener! :)
In worlds like software engineering design documents are adjusted to match the as-built. An outline is a design document for a script. The outline is the most creative part of the writing process- bringing in ideas from the void. Gardeners also work from a plan. Most of the people who make it up as they go get lost in the middle and never finish their first script. Even if he doesn't follow the outline he has it in his head as a result of making it. Ideas are always fleeting so outlining helps you capture things so you can work them in. For one thing, it's hard to build in fore-shadowing without an outline.
I don't write from any outline. I use the re-write to put any foreshadowing in. The complete first draft of a script, I guess you could say is my outline. Instead of a normal outline, it's just the script.
Maybe some do get lost in the middle, but that's never really happened to me, even when writing by the seat of my pants.
I work either way seems functional for the type of story. If it's supposed to be an organically grown story, driven entirely by characters, all the more planning I do is build and diagram those characters... Define who they are, and then make notes to post around the profile write-ups as "Arc notes" depicting where they grow and how they get there...
The story has to be figured out along the way. It can only be created organically if it's going to be interpreted organically. It's one of the major reasons Stephen King gets such acclaim in his works. His best stay the truest to Character... being character driven, instead of planned and plotted out.
On the other hand, there's a different focus for some other story craft... The need to structure that narrative around a focus other than specifically organic and character driven factors creates the need to designate a beginning and some several plot-points to be sure to hit along the way to the designated ending...
Think of creating a roller-coaster. You can put the riders through any number of stunts, twists, flips, and roll-overs, but you have to control the rhythm of the thing. Too much at too quick a pace, and either you'll terrorize your riders to a dangerous degree by over-stimulation, too many G's, or just unsafe abuse of their bodies and senses... OR you can cause enough over-use of force on the engineering and materials in the coaster, breaking it somewhere and killing everyone on board... Too little, and... well... just build a marry go round. Get out of the roller coaster business.
The idea behind story isn't new. There's absolutely nothing completely original anymore... What can make these narrative options unique is the way they get structured together. Sometimes, you're creating a multiple plot crossing over kind of project. It's telling several stories at once, and while any particular story can work "stand-alone" it takes that unique tying together to make the thing great. If you don't want to spend a ABSURD amount of time proofing and retro-actively fixing the thing to get the timing just perfect, you would be well served to start with a plan, some kind of basic structure (and I don't mean the 3-act technique particularly) for your narrative... Just like the blue-prints to the roller-coaster, you draw out about where and how you want to move from establishing certain characters in simple conflicts to embroiling them into their particular course through the Major conflict with the other characters.
Yet, here again, it's a focus of narrative on something other than character-driven, and character arc, while included most of the time, isn't the centerpiece... It's the mystery that draws everyone around to hunt for the mcguffin, or the sinister theories behind a questionable villain... Characters need be just as well written, of course, but they're not necessarily the centerpiece or focus. ;o)
He answered the question I was just doing a search for the other day. What's not a story or a script. A beatboard.
Structure is everywhere. Things cannot be built without it. Music has structure so does a painting, a house and a story. Even those that say they dont outline or have a story structure have a beginning middle and end. Its unavoidable. Some people deviate more from their outlines than others. Thats fine. Its a map to your destination but it wont tell you the fine details of the journey.
He’s so right. I tried to make a beat sheet and it was a waste of time because just with the first ten pages of my script, my ideas for its direction had already drastically changed. Definitely take notes, sure, but personally I haven’t found usefulness in the beat sheet.
I guess I'm a gardner. So good to hear there's nothing wrong with being one. I typically will just have 3 to 5 soft beats that I keep in my head as I write.
I agree with every one of his points in this video. I hate outlining and I do agree it sucks the fun out of me writing a script. I prefer to come up with an idea / story, world for my characters and get to writing. Then rewrite as I go. Regardless the story will change but the fun is coming up with and creating the story. I tend to write better scripts when I just write but when I make an outline I get frustrated because I can't see the story as well. A detailed outline I have a face to a name but I still can't imagine the characters of their voices.
I have to agree for me beat sheets and outlines are helpful in the beginning. But as I start writing, I essentially forget about them. Because if I didn't, I'd be spending more time updating my beat sheet and outline than writing the script. I love the adage ideas spark other ideas. As I put ink on paper I often get inspired in new directions. Then I have to make sure they work.
Brilliant. Thanks
I completly agree!!
My mind is too chaotic for this advice.
I totally agree with this man. Mr. Beat Sheet will beat the sheet out of my creativity the same way painting by numbers will.
I totally agree with Larry.
I can't imagine being a gardener. I've seen far too many serialized stories that started out strongly and even had strong middles that ended horribly. I wouldn't necessarily follow a strict outline like the beat sheet for how things should happen, but I definitely want to know what I'm going to include and how I'm going to end the story before I start writing it. When you're a screenwriter for film being an architect vs. a gardener doesn't matter, but if you're writing a long-running comic or TV show, my guess is that you'll be better off as an architect, unless you're just that good.
I'm a bit of a mix between architect and gardener. How much I plan also depends on what I'm writing, if it's a screenplay, short story, etc. Usually I only write stories about characters and ideas I've had floating around my head for a while, (sometimes, years), so I have some idea of the kinds of things I want to happen and when. I make a quick outline with some bullet points and notes about character motivation, backstory, etc. But once I get to writing, it comes alive in ways I don't expect, and I get to discover the story all over again. The next thing I know most of the outline I had is out the window. Everything just keeps evolving from there as I discover ideas and fix problems I never anticipated. As long as I have a strong idea of what the theme or ending is, the rest of the story just forms itself.
My beat sheet is mainly in my head. I just essentially write down some down.
I understand Beetlejuice much better now. This was helpful.
Architects, gardeners, sculptors: there are so many metaphors for beat sheets that don't get at their value:
I find that having a healthy beat sheet is like having a good drummer / conductor. If you're coordinating a lot of moving parts like multiple plot lines, multiple character and story arcs of different altitude and duration, all over various locations and time horizons in the past and present, then it's helpful to have some bumpers or guardrails to keep you moving forward, not only for the beats but for the silence between the beats.
It's not the song, it's not the melody, it's not the solos, and it's only part of the rhythm section but it's damn helpful, particularly for folks starting out who may not know all the words to their songs yet.
It helps focus the drive or intention--but always with the understanding that everything can change when better choices emerge. So, most importantly, you can change the beats--you're not locked down or constrained by them any more than a band's constrained by a great drummer.
An example of this for me is in The Beatles Get Back documentary, when they practice a song with a consistent beat, and then they'll flip into a music hall version, country version, waltz, and then back to something closer to the original attempt, but influenced by the echoes that carry forward from their experimentation and iteration.
What's not said in the examples of Martin and King is that King is already a rhythm machine: he knocks work out at an incredible rate, consistent as a metronome, dependable as a sunrise.He's like an honorary member of The Go Gos: He's got the Beat. Alternately, Martin's gardening could use maybe a trellis or two, or something to help those young shoots grab some air so they can grow--I mean, how long has he been working on his most recent GoT work? That's not to question his work or writing, that'd be very stupid; however if a beat sheet means he'd have finished by now or working on his next masterpiece, I'm okay with that.
I think if you co-write, you probably need a beat sheet. They get me through my first draft so I can look at what I’ve done. It usually will change a bunch in draft two and three, but I never go back to change the cadence of the piece. It’s like a battle rapper asking for a beat, it gives me the rhythm of the project.
I use beat sheets as a rough outline,but the most unimportant beats don have even an entire scene.I also like to merge with other plot structures like Katytastic's 27 chapters plot or Derek Murphy's 25 chapters plot. In the end,I always have between 14-27 beats,excluding or adding whenever I like it.Since I have many subplots as well,they take lots of chapters too.
Put me in the gardener category, too. Or "discovery writer," as Brandon Sanderson would say. lol
True, whatever works for you. Martin was not able to finish his story and the plant’s fruition was finished off on television, to the great dissatisfaction of many. An outline may have assisted to arrive at a satisfactory resolution of his many brilliant storylines
Interesting that his favourite writers who don't outline (Stephen King, and George RR Martin) are both known for being terrible at writing endings.
Exactly what happens with me. I don't like outlining much for the same reasons he stated
what do u do when u feel like a gardener but u have to meet a deadline?
the problem with alot of people is they will say I DONT USE BEAT SHEETS like some kind of special personal triumph but then will proceed to say their method which is basically the concept as a BEAT SHEET but jus named differenlty
I have always managed without beat sheet and i have written good screenplays of which i am really happy about . But there are some screenplays that suck big time .. and i promised my self there after i wont write without knowing my out line .. cause the amount invested in writing in a feature lenghth screen play is huge .. i personally dont want to invest 6 months to 1 year into a screenplay and then discover that its just not working .
An outline (which can be an A4 list of points) will structure the plot.. from there I find I can go to pages. Unless you’re just thrashing out ideas, I don’t need nor would I want a beat sheet.
sorry for my English...what i love about this channel is so many interviews from different person with different opinion and perspective. why? because storytelling is so complex.
we can see the difference between abstract paintings and classical paintings, why? because the technique is differnt, the approach is different, and the artist choice is different...Basquiat, Picasso, Dali and da Vinci will never create the same paintings. and thats it, the painting. But if u take Aaron Sorkin Script and give it to Scorsese and Tarantino, they will create a different films-- from the same script.
so i think the architecture type, the outline guy type, the beat sheet type is important... because they are amateurs, and amateurs have to learn and do things step by step. and this so called Story Gurus just teach how to write a good story for amateurs.
because, you will never be on stage as a rockband frontman if u cant sing, u will never paint if u can not paint and u will never play a classical piano piece if u cant play the piano, but trust me, there's a lot of people who think they can write a screenplay with good story but in fact they write shit. and that shit get produced. thats the problem...scene heading and then, booom!! i am a scriptwriter.
Coen Brothers said they never do this outlining or beat sheet shit, "just aware of the form" ...thats because there are two of them, and they are so fckn good at it, and they are brothers. but not everyone is The Coens or George R.R. Martin or Stephen King...
people who are architech are peole who have the passion but are not genius/natural... people who are gardener are people who have the passions and it is natural to them... natural to write all this intricate story without outline....
This channel should interview J.K. Rowling
It always depends what kind of story I am writing, with most of my plays I don't write beat sheets I want the characters to just kinda live in the scenes and then they tell me when they're done. With TV pilots and scripts I tend to use beat sheets more because the structure has to basically be a science at that length.
I dont. I use fields flashcard method, briefly.
I completely agree with Mr Wilson. I believe that we should learn all kind of theories about screenplay but not get limited by it. In the end one should apply his own method otherwise one may end up with a soulless story.
I had recently learned (few months back), Stephen King wings it. I don't like everything he rights, but the least horror stories is where Stevie just shines. So, the question I suppose is, will I be using an outline? Probably, considering this will be my and a friends first ever attempt to write a screenplay. I figure it will help keep us going forward while on the 1st draft.
I couldn't write without an outline.
Jenna Murphy I hate outlines. I do index cards after I finish the first draft.
roger8654 i do index cards right off the bat. I would waste so much time writing a draft that goes nowhere. I even do an outline for each scene and the progression of dialogue. How is everything supposed to come to a climax if I don't build it there?
Jenna Murphy I like to have a start and a situation, then make it up from there. But some work better with an outline.🆑
Same. I desperately need it.
I could, especially in the conditions of a generous deadline and higher-than-average payment. ;)
DAMM this is SPOT-ON for me, ha ha ha. I have the Save the Cat software, and I have to FORCE myself to use it, lol😱
"Why don't (beat sheets) work for you?" 2:18 FilmScourge, didn't Larry just tell you why?
I saw this at the very time i was thinking about doing a beat sheet ..
I think any which way is painful with beat sheet and without beatsheet ....with the beat sheet you wont run into problems ...think once you have figured out the basics in your beat sheet . One must start writing without waiting for a detailed beat sheet .because its deficult to imagine in pieces ..when u write a screenplay it flows and the flow tells you and takes you to destinations you would be surprised with . ...
But if outline comes naturally without any force .. then you have struk gold ..do it by all means. Better to do it with outline . .
Gardening takes a lot of time . Architects do it faster .
YEEEEAAAA! I’m a Gardner. Just let it grow.
I hate beat sheet too, but 15 beats Save the cat alway save me and help me all the time. ^_^
i use a beat sheet, so that i can develop my scenes. it makes me think..but i use it after i have thought out my movie. then it helps me to see that my scene are not enough...so i write out all of ideas...i free style... you can't listen to everybody...i like beat sheets...what don't work for me...is just free styling...so i recommend that you don't use it until you need to put things in order...or place things in a magical place...or break the rules...in a creative way...so don't discredit anybody who rights...alll of these writers are helping million...now beat sheets have helped millions...the 1000 that it didnt help, need to write for the 1000 what they did to help them write better...so i reject his advice...writing is subjective...you can't criticize you journey....
Beat sheets are just tools to guide your steps, not to teach you how to walk. You can plant a seed without guidance and care for it until it grows and become a beautiful flower, but if you do it on a mountain, who will see it? You can write a script without a beet sheet but if you have no b story, or if your hero declares his goal too late, who will buy that script?
Also I see people say that cliche "you have to do what works for you". "Works" means become a professional screenwriter, sell scripts that people will like and not just admire your script or be happy and satisfied about it even if no one wants to buy it. If you think you can start selling scripts without beat sheets... good luck. (you can sell of course, if you are already a professional like George R. R. Martin)
I don't use outlines or beat sheets.
My way is 'ink dropper method.'
5 mins of NADA!!!
ArchiTEEEEECTS!!! WHAT is your pro-FESSION?! 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
They probably have an innate beat sense, so they can plant that seed and see it grow and it will grow with a nice beat
I tried exactly once. But suddenly my character did something I hadn’t planned for and I never could get back on that track.
We just completed a new video compilation on outlining. Plan to publish it on Sunday night.
Usually means either your outline or character fleshing wasn't very good. The deviation is fine but going that ar off track means something wasn't aligned
Plotters vs Pantsers!
Does this guy know George RR Martin's last two books were a meandering mess?? He has written himself into a corner because he did not spend enougb time plotting
Beat sheets are great, but they're not set in stone. They can evolve as the story does and you can change them accordingly. Each writer works differently.
I wish GRRM would outline.....
If you don't make a beat sheet your first draft becomes your beat sheet. There's nothing special about this, it's just another way of getting the basis down
I'll take his advice and not listen to him 1:43