F-104G EFM Update 2.7.5.01.01 (Oct 18 2021)
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- First update of the F-104G EFM mod. There are two major changes I go over in the video.
Discord Link:
/ discord
2.7.5.01.01 Update:
drive.google.c...
Update instructions:
1. Download the new F-104G.dll file
2. Replace the existing F-104G.dll file in the bin folder with the new file
(C:\Users\xxxxxx\Saved Games\DCS\Mods\aircraft\VSN_F104G)
3. Enjoy, that is it
This is my favorite aircraft (along with the XB-70a). These 60’s “lead sleds” are just awesome. They certainly don’t fly themselves. I love my old Porsche for the same reason. It *demands* your attention.
I do remember reading from a 104 pilot Andy Bush (FWS Instructor, 600 hours F-104, 600 hours F-4) flap was used up to 550 kts/M1.8. He trained German and Canadian pilots out of Luke, AFB. Corner speed was 400-420 kts. He and a GAF pilot fought an F-15, 2 vs 1 and embarrassed The Eagle crew (D model). If the manual says 450 then perhaps Andy Bush is wrong? I don't think Andy is still with us. He consulted with MSFS2000 (?) many years ago on a 104 module, providing all flight model parameters and even did the voice overs. That was probably 15 years ago. If you are fighting in the 104, speeds should be well above 550 kts so flap won't come into play. Andy did say, flap added 1G. Thanks GVad. Keep them coming.
Pilots are like fishermen, how big was the fish they caught? It may very well be that there were situations where they took the F-104 into 500+ with flaps, but it wasnt allowed according to the manual. Most likely there was some confusion with the note in the manual "do not retract or extend the flaps at 550 Kts", which is strange cause its higher than max speed (very likely reminded the pilots to come down below 450 before retracting the flaps they left extended, lol). Pilots could have just seen that as its OK to fly above 450 kts and it may have been, plane probably took the punishment, and crew chiefs were probably furious cause they had to bend back things on the plane, but that's technically past the structural limit per manual.
Howdy, yeah, he may have done it, but I can tell you, it was not squadron procedure. We only used the flaps on takeoff and landing, and air-air instruction was limited to high speed intercepts. Perhaps things changed after my time when we ended the nuclear strike role and more traditional training was added but for us, the main role for the 4 changed to CAS and conventional strike. It was never intended for the air superiority role. In fact, if you look at the history of the 4's that were used in that role (india-pakistan, vietnam, for example), it didn't rack up a stellar performance. When used in the role it was designed to do..it was excellent.
Coming back to the flap speeds, I asked F-104 pilots on 2 Facebook pages and here are the numbers:
Max extension is 450KIAS
Max retraction is 550KIAS
One Canadian pilot said of a guy flying with take off flap; " I know that Clive Caton couldn't get it over 1.3 on his Mach 2 solo. He got a special M 1.3 pin."
Nice vid and again, great insights to the 104 :-)
That's a beautiful model of the Starfighter.
Really great aircraft! From the video I wonder what the lower attitude indicator does. It appears to behave like a turn coordinator, but in reality it was the standby attitude indicator…
@"GVad The Pilot" ... Just discovered your channel ( and subscribed ). Keep up great work!
F-104 actually did the "cobra", it called "nose pitch up". The plane could fly at AOA 70-80°, and even had aileron effectiveness. You can find the description of that in special manual "F-104. Sure projects. Lectures 1-6" of 1966-67.
The problem of it could do is that most pilot's likely couldn't and were not trained to do it...you also risked surging the engines and the unforgivable stall....not something you wanted to risk doing.
Thanks to GVad for letting me use some clips of his videos for the project I am doing on the life and career of Capt. Harald Hartman Dalhmann who is a German born F104G fighter pilot. The first episode will be launched soon but this is the trailer. @
Re dogfighting with flaps. There is an oddity to them that is worth keeping in mind: They have added air to prevent airflow separation so they should be surprisingly good in the dogfight. This effect will diminish with increased speed. Is this present on this version of the F-104, and if so is it modelled in the EFM?
Important to note that this is based on engine power, so power up and flaps down.
I'm usually wary of implementing failures based on the pilot's manuals, there's a difference between what the crew chief says and what will get you home alive.
That's only partially true what you said.
There was such a system on the 104 (it was called BLC, boundary layer control) and it is modelled in this EFM version, however it was designed to start blowing bypass air over the flaps from the engine when the flaps were in landing postion, to reduce the landing speed by appr. 40kts.
As far as I saw and read in the manual, it is modelled this way in this EFM version too, and you indeed need a bit higher engine RPM to be able to operate the BLC and have enough thrust, due to the ducted bypass air from the engine (don't remember now from which compressor chamber, but it doesn't really make any difference in this matter).
@@nesher666 Thanks for the info! Cool that it's modelled but pity it's only in landing config.
@@mckseal The 104 was a high speed hit and run interceptor. It was never meant to dogfight at low level. I did see some vids of people doing that, comparing it to a mig 21... utter rubbish. The only time we every used flaps was on takeoff and landing. Gvad does a good job on landing it...staying around the 180kts indicated area.... and while the manual says you can land it at lower speeds, we always came in hot...those little wings didn't produce a lot of lift so you don't want to get slow even 20 feet above the ground...it could easily ruin your day.
@@haedubabaganush cheers, I think I know what group you mean and their vids are always questionable. Appreciate the correction!
@@haedubabaganush “interceptor” nope. Please stop spouting nonsense.
The F-104 was not designed to perform the Cobra. The inlet cones would have failed to continue soaking air into the turbine. And this would have caused an immediate Compressor Stall.
I dont think anyone said it was designed for it, just that the correct high pitch up looked like a cobra because the flaps were not configured correctly in the mod. With the update the high pitch up ends with a spin, we'll have to check whether the compressor stalled at that point too.
F-104 had a AOA stick shaker as you approached High Nose Up Angle and a AOA stick puller that would pull the stick forward out of your hands to prevent excessive AOA pitch up and tumble. I don't see either here.
Its not implemented, at least not yet. Think of this as the real initial F-104 pilots did, it took a while before their planes got the safety features.
Ok thank you for the info. I will get the download…
@@CH-pv2rz thats a good question for the devs, will it be implemented? Im a pilot so hate anything extra that is added to take away my control, but its a valid question. You should ask it on the discord
@@FSX404 traditional stick 'pushers' can/could be over ridden manually by the pilot - usually leading to an accident ;) . Unless its that software crap they put into the 737max.
lol leading to an accident
737 max override is not hard, couple of switches, it was just that Boeing never thought they would need training for it so a lot of airline pilots were not aware of it unless their airline was a stickler for details.
Thank you GVad :)
Thanks to GVad for letting me use some clips of his videos for the project I am doing on the life and career of Capt. Harald Hartman Dalhmann who is a German born F104G fighter pilot. The first episode will be launched soon but this is the trailer. ruclips.net/video/3k-9Zx7oZKI/видео.html
Question i like the f-104 the spins the f-104 gets in when you lose control with this intercepter if you are in the flat uncontrollable spin or tumble can you go for more engine power even a shot of afterburner from that j-79 engine with flaps maybe a nose down to gain speed could this maybe help you get back out of said spin and in control again?
I held my stick nose down, but there was no input for nose down, even during the first one I recovered, if you saw my stick it was nose down from the beginning. The nose was just staying up. I believe this has to do with the T-tail, where you lose elevator control in a stall because the disturbed air from the wings hits the elevator just right to where it has no control. If they would have put the elevator in a more conventional position, F-104 would not have had this problem.
@@FSX404 thank you for the answer no i did not notice that thank you for pointing it out yes the t-tail was kind of a heel for the starfighters
The 104 had very poor to non existent stall recovery ability. Even Yeager couldn't get his recovered after one of his test flights.... we had three rules.... don't stall, don't ever stall, don't ever ever ever stall... that also included high speed stalls. If you got into a stall, the rule was to eject if you got below 10K feet.... mainly to save your ass because you were never going to recover the aircraft.
One question: do I just need the F-15c pack to fly this F-104G or do I need the whole Flaming Cliffs 3?
Thanks
This is from the FAQ in the discord:
"FC3 (F15C) are/is needed. The 'S' and the 'G' versions use F15C avionics, the 'S-AG' version uses Su25T avionics. We are not sure if it is enough to have either the Su25T (which you have anyway) or/and the F15C to use the mod, but we would think that that should be enough. If you have tested it, please let us know the result."
I dont have the FC3, at least I dont think I do, but I do have the F-15.
Hey , if it works broke, don't fix it
The higher the realism the bigger the trouble with the F-104. It is a vicious aircraft.
It takes finesse and can't be hosed around the sky like a lot of aircraft. If you're a yank and banker, you will kill yourself in it pretty quick.
@@haedubabaganush The airforce of my country had got 40 of them ( F-104G ) in the year 1964. The Germans had got 749 in 1960 and by the year 1983, when they were withdrawn they had lost in accidents 220 of them with more than 150 pilots killed. When my conrtry received 27 of the German F-104G's in 1983, as they were being replaced by Tornados, we had been left with 26 out of the initial 40. We had lost 14 within 19 years too.
Here's a CF-104 pitch-up/stall:
ruclips.net/video/FJtTYzUIwBQ/видео.html
after my time, but it looks like he got too slow in the turn and game over as he pulled and stalled. You can see how unforgiving it is.
Pilot ejected safely, but the crash killed a family of six in their car.