Thanks for all the comments and suggestions people✌🏻I’m really motivated to keep pushing on and work out a solution, I know it’ll look awesome when we get there👊🏻
I did think E30 M3 and then remembered this car from MiniWorld 1995 which had custom all-metal arches - drive.google.com/file/d/1tzU3VZMywBEGnppiCfa-_8KZH8v7eg4b/view?usp=sharing
Personally I really liked what you did in episode 14. I like the fenders to be like those of a Golf MK2, but with the sideskirts of this episode. Probably very difficult to make that work on this particular car. I'll be looking forward to see what it eventually will be! Great job 👍
Loving the show👍 The small sills looked far better imo. As far as arches…. Maybe overthinking it? Arch extension to cover the wheel and kept as close to the original body line as possible? Less is more perspective. “what’s the smallest arch I can get away with?” haha. Keep up the good work. 👍👍
Indeed, I think I'd prefer some nicely minimalistic and rounded-off fenderflares to blend with the bodystyle as wel. Mainly to preserve as much 'sleeper look' as possible with these very wide tyres. Though I absolutely love the boxiness of the Integrale EVO II, the Princess seems a little to curvy to me to get away with boxy flares. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. Curious to see what will be the result nonetheless.
I've been following this build with interest for quite some time now and with those wide wheels I keep thinking of the arches on the XJ12C Big Cat - the racing BL paint job would look a treat on the Princess too! Best of luck with it whichever way you decide to go.
You should do your prototyping with a more forgiving material. Make some forms around the wheel area, larger than you'll ever think you need, and add expanding foam, then shape after it sets. If you shave too much, make a cardboard form again, add more foam, rinse, repeat.
"Hello there". Good episode, real is awesome. Its nice to have fab montages, but just as good to show how hard it is to get "custom one of stuff" right. cheers
Have a look at manta 400 arches. If you want to borrow a mould I have a full 400 mould set. You could find a used 400 arch to try on the rear. Or try an ascona 400 arch. Tighter.
The new sill is way better than the previous version, but the rear wheel arch looks way too boxy. I do love the deep dish rear wheel, but the increased track is causing a lot of trouble and I wonder whether a reduced offset wheel would enable a more subtle and elegant wheel arch extension more in keeping with the Harris Mann Wedge design ethos? Great work as ever - still a favourite RUclips build!!!
Unfortunately I don’t think I’m going to get much of a narrower wheel, it was a challenge just getting these to fit right. Appreciate the suggestion though😊
I remember the Bad Mini guys did something rather nifty with wire to get an edge profile. They then stretched Lycra type material over it and soaked this with resin which hardened and made the basis of a mould/plug. Still a lot of work but they achieved a nice bubble shaped arch extension.
Start the top piece from the door glass height instead of the handle and start the sweep out from the B pillar.That way you can replicate the swage line that is in the door.
Good progress! I would probably start a blistered arch from half way down from the glass/belt line. Add some radiuses on the edges so they feel a bit more integrated. A bit like what Audi do on the wider RS models. For around the wheel, create a wheel arch flange so it follows the wheel and you can tack it in place to give the look you want including the clearance then bridge from the new shoulder/blister arch to the wheel flange with a subtle curved or even a concave surface.
Close! louvers at the rear, open at the front. Cover the top, sides (legal). Being a knob(!) The Princes isn't all straight hard lines, it's flat planes and curved edges. All power to you, dude!
The part of the arch facing forward could maybe take on a falling away look like the escort RS1900 bodykit. And maybe try to mimic the rear roof line at the rear of the arch. Whatever you do as you already know it is not going to be easy. But you will get there.
Hi Looking good I’ve seen programs where they cut along the Body line where the door handles are and pull the panels out to fit the wheel then fill in the gaps makes it look a bit more stock but does the job Or I think a set of forest arches would look good Or Mk2 escort X pack Good look in what you decide Keep up the good work Ian 😃👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Boy... You've really got your work cut out here, no pun intended . I can see you're just trying things out and then hoping to manipulate the basic idea into something that will complement the whole of the car . I had a similar job done done back in the early eighties on my four door Opel Ascona . I seen a two door version and thought,, I want mine like that ! . Big mistake. Firstly, make sure you do the side with the petrol filler on it. We didn't. Spent four days sorting that out, and four days doing it in the first place. Eventually we got both the back wings on, but trying to get that factory look of a four door car with flared arches was nigh on impossible . I love what you're trying to do but don't envy you. Keep it going. You've definitely got the skills. 👍👍👍👍
I think you need to make a more traditional circular arch extensions, with welded running boards (think vw beetle) linking the front and back arches. Forget the back doors, weld them up and smooth off.
Can you purchase a model of a Princess ie Corgi model etc and play around with some clay to form the arches. Potentially it could save you a heap of time and you will be able to look at it from a distance to see if it looks right,,,,
M3 Quattro and Delta boxed arches are legendary and going that route is only a nod to their greatness , I think you need to start the taper of the box closer to the front edge of the rear door and also wonder if you need to start higher up almost at door window level vinyl roof chrome strip, think you’ve already decided that rear door handles are gone and will only be opened either internally by handle or solenoid, but your the guy doing it where I wish I had the ability and resources to do it, following your build as I grew up with a dad that had 2 triumph Dolomite 1850 HL, a princess a princess 2 and also an Ambassador, and no he didn’t work for the Austin/ Leyland group! I learnt to drive in the Ambassador and had my first crash in one of the Dolomites! Look forward to seeing the finished product ! If you ever truly finish a project, will it always be a work in progress even when road legal and useable???
As suggested look at metro 6r4 or Ferrari f40. The vents break up the slab effect. The front of the arch can then be blended into the door. . Radius the edges as the rear boot has radius edging and it will match.
I think it needs to start right at the back on the point by the boot hatch. Then curve down the door like your first attempt. Don’t enclose the the back completely either leave it semi open. I’d draw it first aswell
The sill is 100% better than the first design. For the rear arches, what about modeling them after the Renault 5 Turbo, asymmetrical front to back with vents up front. I think the rear you currently have would look pretty good with some vents up front.
Watch B is for build RUclips channel, their sema build last year was a mid engine mustang, they did arch flares with round rod them stretched fabric over it and brushed resin in to it then over laid that with fibreglass if my memory is correct, very effective way of making body kits😉
There’s a really cool green rover SD1 group 2 car (from the early 80s) with similar skirt profile that has rounder arches that I think could work well on the princess
A few suggestions: Arch needs to follow the curve of the wheel and it would be better if is flared a bit just by the tyre. You could splice in a bit of arch taken from somewhere else for that. You might also consider starting the arch from higher up the rear quarter and then tapering it down towards the front
Like u read my mind, starting the arch higher would look more in keeping with the designs of the time thinking xpack capri, and agree the new sill profile looks just right on the car❤
Hi Mate, i deffo think the smaller sill is 100% the way to go, as for the arch, I think that a curvy arch would suit the car better than a boxey one, if you made a curved panel to match the wheel then curved it back to the arch if that makes sense, maybe fibreglass would be the way to go as you said as you can make alot more curves, keep going mate your a very talented chap, im sure it will come out well in the end ! All the best MEC from MEC-TEC 👍👍👍
Hi mate, I think your biggest problem with the arch is it's to square, losing the door handles on the rear doors and then bring the arch up more into the top of the door and quarter would be better, also it needs to blend better, coming straight out is to much it needs some curves, also the sill would have been better coming straight down further before bending it to meet into the lower sill flange, I would have extended the front doors and moved the post back to make it a two door, so much easier contouring the back end without the door jamb cut problem, why don't you continue the front lower sill section you made into the rear then see how it looks, ideas may come from seeing that section in place, looking forward to your next video on this, best wishes Darren
Although not a princess man I do appreciate how hard making aesthetically pleasing panels is . Tend to agree with steel arches although GRP ones would still technically be period so can’t see an issue. To get around sharp corners on the steel arches I would personally tack some small dia tube on the inside take some material back and tap the steel to the radius and weld then remove the tube . Or alternatively cut a thick plywood template and route a radius on the edges , clamp steel to the plywood and tap the steel to form . Vital templates are made and everything welded as a pair on a flat surface to avoid discrepancies in panel fit / twisting for left / right hand sides . GRP is sometimes easier as the envelope for design is far greater, again make a rough pattern using as many datum’s centre lines as possible and build off a flat surface,then mirror the opposite side . If using MDF or plastic as a pattern mark lines every 10mm for ref points. ALWAYS build off a flat surface and in handed pairs . If riveting on dot forget to allow for material thickness on your mold ie 2-3mm , sheet wax can be used for this or worst case thick double sided tape stuck to the rear 1/4 . Must admit not the easiest shaped car to wide body . De Tomasso Pantera , lotus esprit, Lancia croup C , BMW M1 or maybe Countach style would be the best option as their a bit “wedgy” too . First time here but I’d probably modify to a 2dr and make some GRP doors . Depends on your end goal . Watch for droop / ride height on the suspension as this will determine the arch profile when removing your wheels . 😇
Cover the arches with brown vinyl and they’ll look original. If Citroen can put door cards on the outside of new cars a Princess can have vinyl arches.
The Princess has very straight boxy type styling from a side view,as opposed to the Allegro which is curvy. My personal opinion is more along the lines of the 6R4 type styling. The arches are going to be so wide they will always look out of sorts with the rest of the car, only my thoughts. To continue with the arches to and through the front would allow the aesthetics of the build to be seen as a whole side. The issues would then be the doors and how to fit that lot up. Loving the content some serious skill on display. Good luck with what ever direction you take
Put the body on blocks at the preferred ride height. Take the springs and dampers out so that the suspension can be jacked up to the bump stops so that you can easily check for clearance on full travel. Then make the panel extension buck out of 3 or 4mm mild steel wire. Doing that means you can easily experiment with shape and change things at will. You can even make a mould for grp from it. Should save a lot of effort and sheet metal! Great videos by the way 👍
@@FabCoUK I think I owe you an apology of sorts. I have very little experience of what you're doing on this latest video, I'm learning far more from what your doing here than I'll ever know! My suggestion came more from a "would it be more easier or beneficial to try it this way?" rather than a "you're doing it all wrong!" point of view. It undoubtedly is very difficult and time consuming to do what you're doing, but very entertaining for your viewers. In your experience would my suggestion be any easier or do you feel it's better regarding getting an outcome that you'll be happy with doing it the way you're doing? Again, thank you for taking the time to produce these videos. You are a talented chap!
Personally I’d suggest buying polystyrene or foam board, bonding it to the side of the car and filing away with it. You could cut it off and control the shape nicely. Then use the polystyrene to make fibreglass panels. You could even cut the fibreglass up and use as a template to build it out of metal. Also, pick a reference car like an e30 m3 or an Ur Quattro and sticking as close to that as possible. Although it’s a ‘boxy’ car, there are some lovely curves on this car and I think the box flairs should match that.
I'm in ore of your patience and skill in coming up with a practical solution to a tricky problem. Looking at the car side on, I'd be inclined to attempt to follow the lines of that view and get more of a blended in shape to the arch, but don't ask me to do it or come up with a design 😅 ! Brilliant work and very entertaining and educational. Whatever you end up doing I'm sure it will look amazing.
I think the box arches look great, its gonna need vents in it, i think converging the rear lines of the back of the car with the arch. Buy a model of the princess, or make a mold of it in clay. The princess is a really tough shape to work with. Great work though
Have you considered buying scrap Princess rear quarters (or a full scrap car) and then grafting that onto your car, with the tail lights moved out, original arches but much wider. Could look cool!
Love this build and it’s very interesting to watch how you deal with the design challenges. I can’t help but think pulling the wheels in closer to the body would make the design process simpler while still keeping a wider track than the original Princess 😊 Keep punching ❤
I think there’s some lessons to draw from your new sill shape, which I think is much better - less is more. I think from the top you’ll want to see a bit of ‘poke’ as opposed to having the wheel inset. Bubble-arch style I think would look really good and complement your sills.
bit late, but I would do the back of the arch to end with round the very back seam joint by the rear lights. keep the same body line curve it has. If looking from the rear it just looks a bit fatter but the curve round and also the swoop forwards as the body tucks under to the rear valance.
I think 3 door Nova style arches are a very good idea, they have a gentle curve to them and they're on a car that is as angular as a Princess everywhere else and they look good.
If it was me I'd get a steel rule and trace curve from the front top corner to the outer point at the wheel centre on the edge then back in to the rear end, then curve your side face to follow. You don’t need the full depth of the arch forward and aft of the axle line only where the tyre is tallest. As others have said, properly define your arch lip, maybe keep a flat rim of an inch or so then bridge the gap between these two surfaces. You’ll get an Audi Quattro'ish box arch that the car is crying out for. Dropping the front top edge is a definite though, it looks so much better instantly. Just drop the corner enough to tuck the nose under the swage line like an E30 M3 only a bit more so. Door is easy... finish your fab'ing-up, take a line slightly backwards from the shut line on top surface, then copy the angle of the original line on the side face to either cut straight off into the arch, or meet the lip mentioned before and along its edge down to the sill. Always loved the shape of these cars, we had 2 Ambassadors when I was kid. 😊 Its going to look awesome, it makes me fancy scribbling something. 😅 Sub'd
It does need some compound curves to blend into the Harris Mann quarters and doors. Maybe those would be easier to achieve in clay from which you could take a fibreglass mould. You could then get the bubble arch shape that's so hard to achieve in steel or aluminium.
The new sill looks so much better than the old ones. I'd maybe buy some pre-made steel bubble arches and use those as your basis. You'll be 99% of the way there as soon as you unbox them. You could transition to square at the rear I guess but I think everything boxy just looks kind of homemade
@@FabCoUK Time is money though, maybe have a good evaluate of the options and capital outlay vs time and unknowns. Imagine how much time you'll sink into sculpting and moulding etc. just to end up with fibreglass. Also if you make an erroneous chop in steel, you can fix it! £400 - £500 for a set of Escort Mk1 '70s works style arches. I think fully bubble up front and bubble transitioning into your boxy idea at the rear, just as you had it in this iteration would look ball burstingly good! I know you can do it. In my mind's eye it'll work fabulously
Love this build. I think the box arch is too low on the car. I couldnt think how to work on that until someone mentiond 6r4. Would take a bit of imagination to tie it into the bodylines, but im sure a modified version of the 6r4 arches would be the way to go. Taken above the level they are now (like 6r4) with rounded edges and let onto the rear light area. Once in body colour would lessen their impact.
My 2cents: take a look at the Liberty Walk GTR kit…I’m no fan of the Liberty Walk design language, but you have the sticky out wheels already. I think it would work on the Princess.
It's not an easy car to style. However, why not hve a look at the Citroën BX, group B rally car. They're not a million miles apart in styling terms. It might help.👍👍
Hi great skills being a coach builder turned hgv driver. He’s a thought 💭 Take a look at the side of an F40 and picture the door and rear quarter. No take that image and place it on the rear door and quarter of the princess. Looking forward to the finished article 🤠👍
I think mk2 escort monte carlo arches would look great. They'd possibly need to be widened. If you want to follow the more squared off route you are on, I'd be looking for inspiration from the zakspeed capri and other group 5 cars
Bring the arches to the whole away along the rear doors? Less sharp front arch then. What's happening with the front wings the same I guess the track has been widened front to?
My take is to try and keep the flowing lines in the original body shape such that the transition is more gentle and less boxy. Do this by moving the start of the arch to the leading edge of the rear door, and the top of the arch maybe up to the window line.
Slim sills 👍 Not a fan of the big boxes. Have you thought about welding up the rear doors and making the worlds first two door PrincesS ? Any room to run wheels with less or negative offset to reduce the size of the extensions ? Following with interest and sure it’ll be an epic build.
Loving the second version of the sill. Is it worth attempting a vent at the front of the arch to improve air flow over the tyre and reduce the impression or “weight” ?
What about making the top of the arch first, in one piece, with a large radius from front to back, rather than three angles. Then make the sides to match. Also, consider mounting that top piece higher up the door/rear quarter, with a greater angle down to the same point as it joins the side now. Shirley one of your subscribers must be handy with photo-shop? 😂
I’m loving the build. I prefer the smaller sill but not feeling the arches at present. I’m wondering wether a Rover Sd1 wide arch kit might be an option.
The line down the side has to stay, so you have to go wider from above the line. More work by that would look more OEM and the flare look lest tacked on.
I can see your point the Allegro....looks like an Allegro, whereas the Princess is going to have a modded look. Personally, I would favour something more subtle around the wheel arches to match the newer sill. But then I'd struggle to build with Lego, so don't listen to me lol. Great update, keep them coming. 👍
Are you set on a box arch style? Have you considered a Berg Cup type arch? Just thinking that they work quite well on the Mk1 Golf which is a similar (ish) wedge shape.Apologies if you've covered this in a previous vid.
@@FabCoUK could the front half of a mk2 escort forest arch not tie into the rear section better ? So it’s like a hybrid between escort front and m3rear Would keep it closer to the tyre at the front which I think is why it looks awkward at the minute and may help with the rear door opening Love the videos on this build btw
i think with the new slimmer sill and some lancia stratos inspired arches (both front and rear i feel would fit well) it would look great.. hard to explain in words and beyond my ability to draw or create but in my head it works lol. Even how the front arches on the stratos swoop into the front lip would work on the princess
Can you go with the stealth look of the Johnny's Allegro and use dished in wheels, with as small as possible arches. Do like the idea of it being a 2 door as well.👍👍
Take your base shape inspiration from the shape of the front wing. Could you not start with a front wing, cut away the top rail then mount it above the swage line but flared out then box it each end, that way it mimics the original body lines?
roberthallmark has already echoed my thoughts, but I think than you are edging closer to a solution. As you have said, vehicle styling is not easy. Best wishes and good luck: you'll get there eventually.
The new sill is a hit with me, but that boxy arch is looking a bit too 'top gear' for me? Perhaps some artist impressions are required, so you have something to work to, and cut down on steel stock lol 😊 too many sharp angular turns are fighting with the rest of the body imo, love the fabrication.
Do you remember the Mini black plastic arches you could buy and bolt on. Would an exaggerated version of this mini arch keep the character of the Princess and do the job? Keep up the great work.e
that center line needs to be followed to keep it in line. Its almost worth thinking about taking the whole side off and making it stick out more to keep that shape. Or try 4x4 sills to see how that looks!
Countach style arches is what that needs. I sent you a photoshop if you remember. Might be worth another look? Trying to make it up as you go along, in metal seems like doing it the hard way.
I’m making it in card first, but steel always comes out different. Countach arches might look great, but actually making them is a different challenge unfortunately
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions people✌🏻I’m really motivated to keep pushing on and work out a solution, I know it’ll look awesome when we get there👊🏻
I did think E30 M3 and then remembered this car from MiniWorld 1995 which had custom all-metal arches - drive.google.com/file/d/1tzU3VZMywBEGnppiCfa-_8KZH8v7eg4b/view?usp=sharing
Personally I really liked what you did in episode 14. I like the fenders to be like those of a Golf MK2, but with the sideskirts of this episode. Probably very difficult to make that work on this particular car. I'll be looking forward to see what it eventually will be! Great job 👍
That princess certainly isn't a frog. It looks phenomenal already. Wow you have some skills and foresight.
Love the smaller sill panel
I feel you need to start the arch right below the window and have the whole rear wider. Still include the body line in the new panel
Im the same way of thinking. Make the whole rear end wider. Maybe even move the position of the rear lights.
Fascinating stuff again Adam. Polystyrene or foam, a rasp, and a picture of a 1983 group b quattro. That's all you need to get your shapes 😉
A Berg Cup style Austin Princess would be awesome! 🙂👍
Loving the show👍 The small sills looked far better imo. As far as arches…. Maybe overthinking it? Arch extension to cover the wheel and kept as close to the original body line as possible? Less is more perspective. “what’s the smallest arch I can get away with?” haha. Keep up the good work. 👍👍
Thanks for the tips!
Indeed, I think I'd prefer some nicely minimalistic and rounded-off fenderflares to blend with the bodystyle as wel. Mainly to preserve as much 'sleeper look' as possible with these very wide tyres. Though I absolutely love the boxiness of the Integrale EVO II, the Princess seems a little to curvy to me to get away with boxy flares. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. Curious to see what will be the result nonetheless.
I've been following this build with interest for quite some time now and with those wide wheels I keep thinking of the arches on the XJ12C Big Cat - the racing BL paint job would look a treat on the Princess too! Best of luck with it whichever way you decide to go.
Bonus points for the David Gilmour T-Shirt 👍
You should do your prototyping with a more forgiving material. Make some forms around the wheel area, larger than you'll ever think you need, and add expanding foam, then shape after it sets. If you shave too much, make a cardboard form again, add more foam, rinse, repeat.
I do like the new sill design. I wonder what Metro 6R4 style arches would look like on the Princess ?
I was thinking 6R4 style too
Same!
"Hello there". Good episode, real is awesome. Its nice to have fab montages, but just as good to show how hard it is to get "custom one of stuff" right. cheers
Thanks!
Making progress! Love the new side skirt / sill design. Thinking half round rear arches into the boxy rear
Have a look at manta 400 arches. If you want to borrow a mould I have a full 400 mould set. You could find a used 400 arch to try on the rear.
Or try an ascona 400 arch. Tighter.
The new sill is way better than the previous version, but the rear wheel arch looks way too boxy.
I do love the deep dish rear wheel, but the increased track is causing a lot of trouble and I wonder whether a reduced offset wheel would enable a more subtle and elegant wheel arch extension more in keeping with the Harris Mann Wedge design ethos?
Great work as ever - still a favourite RUclips build!!!
Unfortunately I don’t think I’m going to get much of a narrower wheel, it was a challenge just getting these to fit right. Appreciate the suggestion though😊
Loving the Edd China style surprised hello 😂
People keep saying that but I’ve never watched Edd China 😂
No, its because you camera man is stealthy:-)
I remember the Bad Mini guys did something rather nifty with wire to get an edge profile. They then stretched Lycra type material over it and soaked this with resin which hardened and made the basis of a mould/plug. Still a lot of work but they achieved a nice bubble shaped arch extension.
It defo needs the large sills to flow in to the arches,it all needs to flow 👍🏼👍🏼
Start the top piece from the door glass height instead of the handle and start the sweep out from the B pillar.That way you can replicate the swage line that is in the door.
Thanks 🙂
Good progress! I would probably start a blistered arch from half way down from the glass/belt line. Add some radiuses on the edges so they feel a bit more integrated. A bit like what Audi do on the wider RS models. For around the wheel, create a wheel arch flange so it follows the wheel and you can tack it in place to give the look you want including the clearance then bridge from the new shoulder/blister arch to the wheel flange with a subtle curved or even a concave surface.
Keep up the good work Sahn!!😁I,m intrigugued to see what the ol, gal turns out like !! ive subscribed & all that malaky..
Close! louvers at the rear, open at the front. Cover the top, sides (legal).
Being a knob(!) The Princes isn't all straight hard lines, it's flat planes and curved edges. All power to you, dude!
Thanks 😊
The part of the arch facing forward could maybe take on a falling away look like the escort RS1900 bodykit.
And maybe try to mimic the rear roof line at the rear of the arch.
Whatever you do as you already know it is not going to be easy.
But you will get there.
Hi
Looking good
I’ve seen programs where they cut along the Body line where the door handles are and pull the panels out to fit the wheel then fill in the gaps makes it look a bit more stock but does the job
Or
I think a set of forest arches would look good
Or
Mk2 escort X pack
Good look in what you decide
Keep up the good work
Ian
😃👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks!
Boy... You've really got your work cut out here, no pun intended . I can see you're just trying things out and then hoping to manipulate the basic idea into something that will complement the whole of the car . I had a similar job done done back in the early eighties on my four door Opel Ascona . I seen a two door version and thought,, I want mine like that ! . Big mistake. Firstly, make sure you do the side with the petrol filler on it. We didn't. Spent four days sorting that out, and four days doing it in the first place. Eventually we got both the back wings on, but trying to get that factory look of a four door car with flared arches was nigh on impossible . I love what you're trying to do but don't envy you. Keep it going. You've definitely got the skills. 👍👍👍👍
I think you need to make a more traditional circular arch extensions, with welded running boards (think vw beetle) linking the front and back arches. Forget the back doors, weld them up and smooth off.
Can you purchase a model of a Princess ie Corgi model etc and play around with some clay to form the arches. Potentially it could save you a heap of time and you will be able to look at it from a distance to see if it looks right,,,,
It has been suggested! Thanks
ideally scale a model up a bit and 3d print it
Dont forget to turn the edge in around the wheel ,
Also make it a 2 door car and gives more scope with the arches 😊
I’d be moving the b pillar back and make it 2 door it has the shape for it...A1quality work there fella
I like where you're going with this, but maybe it would be worth thinking of softening the edges to more suit the princess shape.
I've probably missed the reason for the axle width? To me a narrower axle would be a more easier route? Love seeing the Princess's evolution.
M3 Quattro and Delta boxed arches are legendary and going that route is only a nod to their greatness , I think you need to start the taper of the box closer to the front edge of the rear door and also wonder if you need to start higher up almost at door window level vinyl roof chrome strip, think you’ve already decided that rear door handles are gone and will only be opened either internally by handle or solenoid, but your the guy doing it where I wish I had the ability and resources to do it, following your build as I grew up with a dad that had 2 triumph Dolomite 1850 HL, a princess a princess 2 and also an Ambassador, and no he didn’t work for the Austin/ Leyland group! I learnt to drive in the Ambassador and had my first crash in one of the Dolomites! Look forward to seeing the finished product ! If you ever truly finish a project, will it always be a work in progress even when road legal and useable???
I'm not even thinking about it being finished, just enjoying the process of fabricating :)
As suggested look at metro 6r4 or Ferrari f40. The vents break up the slab effect. The front of the arch can then be blended into the door. . Radius the edges as the rear boot has radius edging and it will match.
I think it needs to start right at the back on the point by the boot hatch. Then curve down the door like your first attempt. Don’t enclose the the back completely either leave it semi open. I’d draw it first aswell
The sill is 100% better than the first design. For the rear arches, what about modeling them after the Renault 5 Turbo, asymmetrical front to back with vents up front. I think the rear you currently have would look pretty good with some vents up front.
Great point!
What if it was done in the 6R4 style with complete door boxes. I’m very interested to see which road you go down with the styling 👍🏻
Watch B is for build RUclips channel, their sema build last year was a mid engine mustang, they did arch flares with round rod them stretched fabric over it and brushed resin in to it then over laid that with fibreglass if my memory is correct, very effective way of making body kits😉
There’s a really cool green rover SD1 group 2 car (from the early 80s) with similar skirt profile that has rounder arches that I think could work well on the princess
Its starting to remind me of a Dimma kit ❤
A few suggestions: Arch needs to follow the curve of the wheel and it would be better if is flared a bit just by the tyre. You could splice in a bit of arch taken from somewhere else for that. You might also consider starting the arch from higher up the rear quarter and then tapering it down towards the front
Thanks 😃
Like u read my mind, starting the arch higher would look more in keeping with the designs of the time thinking xpack capri, and agree the new sill profile looks just right on the car❤
Have you considered the arches on old 911 Turbos as inspiration? I think that style would look amazing on the Princess.
Hi Mate, i deffo think the smaller sill is 100% the way to go, as for the arch, I think that a curvy arch would suit the car better than a boxey one, if you made a curved panel to match the wheel then curved it back to the arch if that makes sense, maybe fibreglass would be the way to go as you said as you can make alot more curves, keep going mate your a very talented chap, im sure it will come out well in the end ! All the best MEC from MEC-TEC 👍👍👍
Yay !, WOO-HOO !!, more Princess 😃😄😆 ....thank-you
More to come!
Liked the video for your determination with the box arches, I'd just go with chucking some 'Berg cup' arches on there.
Another cracking episode chaps, even when it doesn’t necessarily go ‘right’ it’s cool to see the process 👌🏼
More to come!
Careful you don't go too 'Leepu' : ) Love the show.
Hi mate, I think your biggest problem with the arch is it's to square, losing the door handles on the rear doors and then bring the arch up more into the top of the door and quarter would be better, also it needs to blend better, coming straight out is to much it needs some curves, also the sill would have been better coming straight down further before bending it to meet into the lower sill flange, I would have extended the front doors and moved the post back to make it a two door, so much easier contouring the back end without the door jamb cut problem, why don't you continue the front lower sill section you made into the rear then see how it looks, ideas may come from seeing that section in place, looking forward to your next video on this, best wishes Darren
Although not a princess man I do appreciate how hard making aesthetically pleasing panels is .
Tend to agree with steel arches although GRP ones would still technically be period so can’t see an issue.
To get around sharp corners on the steel arches I would personally tack some small dia tube on the inside take some material back and tap the steel to the radius and weld then remove the tube .
Or alternatively cut a thick plywood template and route a radius on the edges , clamp steel to the plywood and tap the steel to form .
Vital templates are made and everything welded as a pair on a flat surface to avoid discrepancies in panel fit / twisting for left / right hand sides .
GRP is sometimes easier as the envelope for design is far greater, again make a rough pattern using as many datum’s centre lines as possible and build off a flat surface,then mirror the opposite side .
If using MDF or plastic as a pattern mark lines every 10mm for ref points.
ALWAYS build off a flat surface and in handed pairs .
If riveting on dot forget to allow for material thickness on your mold ie 2-3mm , sheet wax can be used for this or worst case thick double sided tape stuck to the rear 1/4 .
Must admit not the easiest shaped car to wide body .
De Tomasso Pantera , lotus esprit, Lancia croup C , BMW M1 or maybe Countach style would be the best option as their a bit “wedgy” too
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First time here but I’d probably modify to a 2dr and make some GRP doors . Depends on your end goal .
Watch for droop / ride height on the suspension as this will determine the arch profile when removing your wheels . 😇
Cover the arches with brown vinyl and they’ll look original. If Citroen can put door cards on the outside of new cars a Princess can have vinyl arches.
All I'll say is the coolest looking cars have radiust arches and the tyre sidewall tends to stick out slightly.
The Princess has very straight boxy type styling from a side view,as opposed to the Allegro which is curvy. My personal opinion is more along the lines of the 6R4 type styling. The arches are going to be so wide they will always look out of sorts with the rest of the car, only my thoughts. To continue with the arches to and through the front would allow the aesthetics of the build to be seen as a whole side. The issues would then be the doors and how to fit that lot up. Loving the content some serious skill on display. Good luck with what ever direction you take
find the right wheels first, maybe offset change to narrow things. Also go find a jdm style plastic arch from a 240 and offer it up. thanks
These wheels are brand new for the car😂
Put the body on blocks at the preferred ride height. Take the springs and dampers out so that the suspension can be jacked up to the bump stops so that you can easily check for clearance on full travel. Then make the panel extension buck out of 3 or 4mm mild steel wire. Doing that means you can easily experiment with shape and change things at will. You can even make a mould for grp from it. Should save a lot of effort and sheet metal! Great videos by the way 👍
Thanks!
@@FabCoUK I think I owe you an apology of sorts. I have very little experience of what you're doing on this latest video, I'm learning far more from what your doing here than I'll ever know! My suggestion came more from a "would it be more easier or beneficial to try it this way?" rather than a "you're doing it all wrong!" point of view. It undoubtedly is very difficult and time consuming to do what you're doing, but very entertaining for your viewers. In your experience would my suggestion be any easier or do you feel it's better regarding getting an outcome that you'll be happy with doing it the way you're doing? Again, thank you for taking the time to produce these videos. You are a talented chap!
Personally I’d suggest buying polystyrene or foam board, bonding it to the side of the car and filing away with it. You could cut it off and control the shape nicely. Then use the polystyrene to make fibreglass panels. You could even cut the fibreglass up and use as a template to build it out of metal. Also, pick a reference car like an e30 m3 or an Ur Quattro and sticking as close to that as possible. Although it’s a ‘boxy’ car, there are some lovely curves on this car and I think the box flairs should match that.
It's certainly something i've considered :)
I'm in ore of your patience and skill in coming up with a practical solution to a tricky problem. Looking at the car side on, I'd be inclined to attempt to follow the lines of that view and get more of a blended in shape to the arch, but don't ask me to do it or come up with a design 😅 ! Brilliant work and very entertaining and educational. Whatever you end up doing I'm sure it will look amazing.
Thanks for watching 😃
I think the box arches look great, its gonna need vents in it, i think converging the rear lines of the back of the car with the arch. Buy a model of the princess, or make a mold of it in clay. The princess is a really tough shape to work with. Great work though
The Citroen BX rally car had some smart arch's that could suit the princess...
Have you considered buying scrap Princess rear quarters (or a full scrap car) and then grafting that onto your car, with the tail lights moved out, original arches but much wider. Could look cool!
Most of the scrap full cars will have rotten quarters like mine were. Replacements aren’t available unfortunately 😞
Look at the Vauxhall Nova rear wheel arch. Perhaps you could do a blister design based upon that?
Love this build and it’s very interesting to watch how you deal with the design challenges.
I can’t help but think pulling the wheels in closer to the body would make the design process simpler while still keeping a wider track than the original Princess 😊
Keep punching ❤
Unfortunately i'm not going to get much of a narrower track without totally modifying the Jag subframe
I think there’s some lessons to draw from your new sill shape, which I think is much better - less is more. I think from the top you’ll want to see a bit of ‘poke’ as opposed to having the wheel inset. Bubble-arch style I think would look really good and complement your sills.
Have a look at Maguire Minis for inspiration?
bit late, but I would do the back of the arch to end with round the very back seam joint by the rear lights. keep the same body line curve it has. If looking from the rear it just looks a bit fatter but the curve round and also the swoop forwards as the body tucks under to the rear valance.
New sills gets the thumbs up 👍🏻... think the box arch needs to look more like the 3 dr nova hatchback rear
I think 3 door Nova style arches are a very good idea, they have a gentle curve to them and they're on a car that is as angular as a Princess everywhere else and they look good.
If it was me I'd get a steel rule and trace curve from the front top corner to the outer point at the wheel centre on the edge then back in to the rear end, then curve your side face to follow. You don’t need the full depth of the arch forward and aft of the axle line only where the tyre is tallest.
As others have said, properly define your arch lip, maybe keep a flat rim of an inch or so then bridge the gap between these two surfaces.
You’ll get an Audi Quattro'ish box arch that the car is crying out for.
Dropping the front top edge is a definite though, it looks so much better instantly. Just drop the corner enough to tuck the nose under the swage line like an E30 M3 only a bit more so.
Door is easy... finish your fab'ing-up, take a line slightly backwards from the shut line on top surface, then copy the angle of the original line on the side face to either cut straight off into the arch, or meet the lip mentioned before and along its edge down to the sill.
Always loved the shape of these cars, we had 2 Ambassadors when I was kid. 😊
Its going to look awesome, it makes me fancy scribbling something. 😅
Sub'd
It does need some compound curves to blend into the Harris Mann quarters and doors. Maybe those would be easier to achieve in clay from which you could take a fibreglass mould. You could then get the bubble arch shape that's so hard to achieve in steel or aluminium.
The new sill looks so much better than the old ones. I'd maybe buy some pre-made steel bubble arches and use those as your basis. You'll be 99% of the way there as soon as you unbox them. You could transition to square at the rear I guess but I think everything boxy just looks kind of homemade
Most of the available arches are a lot of money, so it’s a bit of a risk to cut them up
@@FabCoUK Time is money though, maybe have a good evaluate of the options and capital outlay vs time and unknowns. Imagine how much time you'll sink into sculpting and moulding etc. just to end up with fibreglass. Also if you make an erroneous chop in steel, you can fix it! £400 - £500 for a set of Escort Mk1 '70s works style arches. I think fully bubble up front and bubble transitioning into your boxy idea at the rear, just as you had it in this iteration would look ball burstingly good! I know you can do it. In my mind's eye it'll work fabulously
Love this build. I think the box arch is too low on the car. I couldnt think how to work on that until someone mentiond 6r4. Would take a bit of imagination to tie it into the bodylines, but im sure a modified version of the 6r4 arches would be the way to go. Taken above the level they are now (like 6r4) with rounded edges and let onto the rear light area. Once in body colour would lessen their impact.
My 2cents: take a look at the Liberty Walk GTR kit…I’m no fan of the Liberty Walk design language, but you have the sticky out wheels already. I think it would work on the Princess.
What about the Testarossa pattern? Start at drivers door and then slowly extend out towards the rear wheel?
It's not an easy car to style. However, why not hve a look at the Citroën BX, group B rally car. They're not a million miles apart in styling terms. It might help.👍👍
Hi great skills being a coach builder turned hgv driver. He’s a thought 💭
Take a look at the side of an F40 and picture the door and rear quarter. No take that image and place it on the rear door and quarter of the princess.
Looking forward to the finished article 🤠👍
I think mk2 escort monte carlo arches would look great. They'd possibly need to be widened. If you want to follow the more squared off route you are on, I'd be looking for inspiration from the zakspeed capri and other group 5 cars
Bring the arches to the whole away along the rear doors? Less sharp front arch then. What's happening with the front wings the same I guess the track has been widened front to?
This is one of those updates that you know your going to enjoy even before you watch it 👍
I hope so!
My take is to try and keep the flowing lines in the original body shape such that the transition is more gentle and less boxy. Do this by moving the start of the arch to the leading edge of the rear door, and the top of the arch maybe up to the window line.
A few people have suggested that now so I might have to mock that up!
Door section fibreglass similar to the Metro 6r4 and used as a vent
Slim sills 👍 Not a fan of the big boxes. Have you thought about welding up the rear doors and making the worlds first two door PrincesS ? Any room to run wheels with less or negative offset to reduce the size of the extensions ?
Following with interest and sure it’ll be an epic build.
People keep suggesting this but it’ll never be a 2dr. There’s so much work in making that look right, pillars, glass etc.
Loving the second version of the sill. Is it worth attempting a vent at the front of the arch to improve air flow over the tyre and reduce the impression or “weight” ?
I think it’s just too bulky. Needs another rethink. Thanks for watching 😃
I wonder how the bolt-on flares for a 4 door Holden Torana from 1975 would look - it would certainly look period correct
What about making the top of the arch first, in one piece, with a large radius from front to back, rather than three angles. Then make the sides to match. Also, consider mounting that top piece higher up the door/rear quarter, with a greater angle down to the same point as it joins the side now. Shirley one of your subscribers must be handy with photo-shop? 😂
It’s one thing photoshopping, it’s a other thing making said photoshop 😅
New sills look much better. Less like something off Logan's Run! 😁👍
Nice to see that an idea I had of doing something like a Delta Integrale arch is something you're doing. Maybe what I said planted that seed. 😁
Maybe! A fair few suggested that style 😃
@@FabCoUKa fair few were correct! Still loving this project. 💪
Though this is a more powerful engine, the Rover concept KAT SD1 might be worth revising for some design inspiration
I’m loving the build. I prefer the smaller sill but not feeling the arches at present. I’m wondering wether a Rover Sd1 wide arch kit might be an option.
Or maybe Lister Jag XJ-S wide arches.
The line down the side has to stay, so you have to go wider from above the line. More work by that would look more OEM and the flare look lest tacked on.
I can see your point the Allegro....looks like an Allegro, whereas the Princess is going to have a modded look. Personally, I would favour something more subtle around the wheel arches to match the newer sill. But then I'd struggle to build with Lego, so don't listen to me lol.
Great update, keep them coming.
👍
R33 GTR LM boxy arches. Extend all the way to the rear and almost slash cut the fronts
Are you set on a box arch style? Have you considered a Berg Cup type arch? Just thinking that they work quite well on the Mk1 Golf which is a similar (ish) wedge shape.Apologies if you've covered this in a previous vid.
Haven’t but definitely could work! Thanks
Good call - those would look ace.
@@FabCoUK could the front half of a mk2 escort forest arch not tie into the rear section better ? So it’s like a hybrid between escort front and m3rear
Would keep it closer to the tyre at the front which I think is why it looks awkward at the minute and may help with the rear door opening
Love the videos on this build btw
i think with the new slimmer sill and some lancia stratos inspired arches (both front and rear i feel would fit well) it would look great.. hard to explain in words and beyond my ability to draw or create but in my head it works lol. Even how the front arches on the stratos swoop into the front lip would work on the princess
Have you thought about simple wheel arch/fender flares...keeps the rounded look and not so boxy? (ie Wide body style)
i liked the forest arch over the half coffin.
Old style forest bubble arches would suit sweet??
Can you go with the stealth look of the Johnny's Allegro and use dished in wheels, with as small as possible arches.
Do like the idea of it being a 2 door as well.👍👍
It’ll never be a 2dr, sorry😂
Could you go Group 5 Zakspeed Capri style, so squared off at the front and then extending the arch rearwards all the way to the back of the car?
Take your base shape inspiration from the shape of the front wing. Could you not start with a front wing, cut away the top rail then mount it above the swage line but flared out then box it each end, that way it mimics the original body lines?
roberthallmark has already echoed my thoughts, but I think than you are edging closer to a solution. As you have said, vehicle styling is not easy. Best wishes and good luck: you'll get there eventually.
Thanks for watching 🙂
The new sill is a hit with me, but that boxy arch is looking a bit too 'top gear' for me? Perhaps some artist impressions are required, so you have something to work to, and cut down on steel stock lol 😊 too many sharp angular turns are fighting with the rest of the body imo, love the fabrication.
Do you remember the Mini black plastic arches you could buy and bolt on. Would an exaggerated version of this mini arch keep the character of the Princess and do the job? Keep up the great work.e
Potentially! Thanks for watching :)
Maybe the arch should extend to the front edge of the rear door. It'll become less of a wheel-box with a smaller fade angle
that center line needs to be followed to keep it in line. Its almost worth thinking about taking the whole side off and making it stick out more to keep that shape. Or try 4x4 sills to see how that looks!
Countach style arches is what that needs. I sent you a photoshop if you remember. Might be worth another look? Trying to make it up as you go along, in metal seems like doing it the hard way.
I’m making it in card first, but steel always comes out different. Countach arches might look great, but actually making them is a different challenge unfortunately
@@FabCoUK I was thinking you could get some from one of the replica builders. Then cut them up to fit. No easy answer though.